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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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I think there's plenty of drama to be mined in the Hook/Emma relationship simply due to the fact he's, you know, a pirate. I wouldn't expect them to settle into bliss anytime soon - that would be unrealistic, to me. And Emma should doubt him - hell, she's so insecure she'd probably doubt anyone she gets that close to, especially after what happened to her past love interests - but Hook's past profession and habits will probably make her even more wary.

I'd prefer for the writers to explore these kind of problems and not create anything plot device-y between them until at least 4B.

Edited by FurryFury
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(edited)

Any storyline that gives David something to do is good for me.

Now we just need a storyline for Hook not related to Emma, but it looks like we are back to 3b with Emma doubting their relationship and he following her as a puppy. I don't want it to be all rainbows and sunshines but there are many stories they can tell about Hook and Emma without going back to her walls and her inner struggle and that include both characters.

While I would like more Charming backstory, I would prefer it if they explored something new in the present day. The Tower episode ended up being a bit lame. But I'll take anything to do with him at this point!

As for CS, I too hope it's not back to Hook looking like a sad puppy because Emma is still pushing him away emotionally. I donno if my shipping will sustain over another half-season of the same thing.

I think there's plenty of drama to be mined in the Hook/Emma relationship simply due to the fact he's, you know, a pirate. I wouldn't expect them to settle into bliss anytime soon - that would be unrealistic, to me. And Emma should doubt him - hell, she's so insecure she'd probably doubt anyone she gets that close to, especially after what happened to her past love interests - but Hook's past profession and habits will probably make her even more wary.

I do think they should explore Hook past a little more in the context of his new romance with Emma, but I doubt that will happen this half-season. (The Ariel storyline was one such example.) However, the Frozen arc seems focussed on Rumple, with a minor link to Charming perhaps. Then there's the Marian angst, etc.. I hope we get something in 4B. Maybe Blackbeard will be back from the dead!

Edited by Rumsy4
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(edited)

Josh talks a bit more about the the friend from the past in this interview.

 

Also, the second episode features sword fighting (he mentions that one of his finger has stitches in it).

 

ETA  In this interview, Rob admits that Rumple has already had a "relapse" in using Dark Magic in what they have filmed already. He is filming his first scene with Elsa this Wednesday

 

Interviews with  Lana, Jen, Colin and Jared linked in the con thread (but containing more vague spoilers).

Edited by kili
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(edited)

However, the Frozen arc seems focussed on Rumple

Not really. Aside from his past connection with Anna and Elsa, everything we've heard about him in the present situation is about his relationship with Belle. As usual, I think the Frozen arc will mostly focus on Emma and Regina.

Jafar might be a possibility, but he was still outright evil, and would need a lot more redemption time to catch him up to Regina.  Plus as much as I liked the actor on "Lost", he was way too cheesy in the role.  He wasn't able to "ground" the character like the Rumple and Regina actors were able to.

Blasphemy! It's JAFAR, if he wasn't over the top then the actor wouldn't be doing his job right!

Edited by Mathius
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JMO says that CS has Anna/Kristoff parallels here. And that the Emma-trying-to-keep-Regina-good dynamic has "Anna trying to reach out to Elsa" parallels. 

I literally just saw Frozen and can't think of any similarities between CS and A/K. Maybe they have a kind of action adventure "against" Elsa's snow like they do in the movie?

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JMO says that CS has Anna/Kristoff parallels here. And that the Emma-trying-to-keep-Regina-good dynamic has "Anna trying to reach out to Elsa" parallels. 

I literally just saw Frozen and can't think of any similarities between CS and A/K. Maybe they have a kind of action adventure "against" Elsa's snow like they do in the movie?

Really, I saw Frozen yesterday for the fisrt time (it's cute, but nothing extraordinary, and quite childish)and I can't think about any similarities between the two couples, except that they like each other.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Adam and Eddie interview with some spoilers and thoughts on why they chose to do Frozen.

 

What happens when Anna, who sees the good in everybody, meets Rumplestiltskin..."the devil himself"

What happens when Elsa and Emma meet and discuss being able control their magic, that its really hard to let people in, that they feel different from everybody else.

 

I literally just saw Frozen and can't think of any similarities between CS and A/K

 

I think one of the similarities is that Hook and Kristoff both challenge Emma and Anna's views on things. Kristoff challenges falling in love in a day and Hook challenges Emma running away. Since Kristoff and Anna went on an adventure, I hope Hook and Emma do that too. Hook, Emma and Charming rock at quests.

Edited by kili
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Well both Hook/Emma and Anna/Kristoff started not liking each other very much. And isn't Kristoff supposed to be adapting to life in the castle since he's engaged to Anna? That could parallel Hook adapting to life in Storybrooke since he's with Emma now and he's no longer a pirate.

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There was an earlier spoiler about seeing Kristoff trying to deal with living indoors for the first time in his life when he moves into the castle. While I don't think Hook and Emma will be at the point of moving in together, I can see them having trouble with having to consider another person in their decisions. They've both been on their own for so long that dealing with another person would be a bit irksome. And Hook will have to deal with being settled into one spot instead of always on the move on his ship. They're fixer-uppers, you know! (Honestly, I truly hated that song, though most people seem to enjoy it.) Though that seems more like a mutual issue than an internal Emma issue. 

 

I think of interesting things that go with JMo's head-canon that Emma was abused as a kid, but I can't see the show delving into THAT too much, if at all, because it's just too real-world. Maaaaaybe they might show a bit of emotional abuse, with awful foster parents telling her she was no good, unworthy of love, etc. That could dovetail with her guilt over Marian and feeling like she screwed up. (Which I still say NO! to, but this show....) So Hook with his devotion and "You're bloody brilliant!" would be a difficult thing for her to accept and believe, if she feels like she's unworthy of it.

 

I agree, kili, I would like quests! Quests are awesome.

Edited by Souris
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What happens when Anna, who sees the good in everybody, meets Rumplestiltskin..."the devil himself"

What happens when Elsa and Emma meet and discuss being able control their magic, that its really hard to let people in, that they feel different from everybody else.

I hope this doesn't mean Anna falls in love with Rumple. Isn't that how they see Belle? And Snow I guess. I also think Anna/Kristoff is a lot closer to Snow and Charming than Emma and Hook. I'm curious to see how Anna/Rumple/Elsa comes off. And it's about damn time they did something with Gold and Henry even if I can't stand him. Maybe Rumple will make him more tolerable.

I'll believe the Elsa and Emma thing when I see it. They could've done something similar with Zelena but didn't. Although I guess Emma seems to be cribbed more from Elsa than Zels. I want them as friends and at one point I hope they each tell the other to let it go. Can the actresses sing? They should have a singing battle.

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Well both Hook/Emma and Anna/Kristoff started not liking each other very much. And isn't Kristoff supposed to be adapting to life in the castle since he's engaged to Anna? That could parallel Hook adapting to life in Storybrooke since he's with Emma now and he's no longer a pirate.

Yeah, my mind went in the same direction. Colin said in one of the CC interviews something like, "People have to remember that he is still and always will be a pirate," so I wonder if their unaligned moral compasses might cause some friction early on. Emma is fine kidnapping and stealing clothes in the EF, but in Storybrooke, she's the sheriff. I don't think she'd be so cool with her boyfriend stealing a boat, for instance, whenever it took his fancy. Maybe the new duds are part of him saying, "I'm really going to make an effort to be part of your world."

 

The season hasn't even started yet, and I'm already sick of hearing about the Rumple's magic "addiction." If Buffy couldn't make that storyline good, Once certainly can't. 

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In this interview, JMo specifically mentions issues stemming from Emma's past that makes it so hard for her to let go, so I guess it isn't really the Marian thing. (I wanted to slap the interviewer who asked about Emma repeating the same mistakes that Snow made. Oh, eff you and your Regina view of events!) I do so want Emma flashbacks. Can anybody come up with anything new besides abuse that could be in her background that could explain her fears and walls? We already know about why she has abandonment issues.

 

The cat-with-the-canary looks JMo and Colin exchanged about things fans would like in the first ep hinted toward something Captain Swan-ish.

 

Also, the code word for this season is definitely "complicated." LOL, I think I've heard that word more in 24 hours than anytime since that Avril Lavigne song was all over the radio.

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Well, any Emma flashback would be good for me. The time when her first foster family gave her back. Being homeless and alone before she met Neal. Waiting for 2 years for him in Tallahassee. How she had to make a decent living on her own after leaving jail. She's been alone most of her life, so now she has to learn to be in a relationship. I'm not sure if she had any after Neal (besides Walsh).

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With the talk of Emma and Elsa understanding each other because they can't control their magic, I'm wondering if Emma harmed (or certainly scared) those around her during her foster years?

We've thrown that out there as something we wanted to see. But not sure why that would have her trying to tap the breaks with Hook?

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If they really want to paralel Emma and Elsa they can have a flashback were child Emma uses her magic and by accident hurts someone, and her adoptive family sends her back. If she was happy, that can explain her trust issues without being too real world. If she was really young, the memory of the magic could be blocked, so they can explain why she doesn't remember it.

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I can totally see that idea of her accidentally endangering someone with her magic when she was a kid. Maybe her adoptive family's new baby? That would parallel when Elsa accidentally froze Anna when they were kids, leading to her being locked away by herself. (Dumb-ass parents.) That's a more likely scenario for them to delve into than abuse. She would have to remember it, though, for it to be an issue. Though it seems more a general walls explainer than specific to a relationship with Hook. (Albeit, he seems more interested in her psyche and what makes her tick than her parents, so he's more likely to hit those walls.)

Edited by Souris
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If they really want to paralel Emma and Elsa they can have a flashback were child Emma uses her magic and by accident hurts someone, and her adoptive family sends her back. If she was happy, that can explain her trust issues without being too real world. If she was really young, the memory of the magic could be blocked, so they can explain why she doesn't remember it.

 

Emma was 3 when she was returned by her adoptive parents, wasn't she?  It's not like she would remember doing magic or even understand what it was that she did.  I do think the whole magical aspect of things would be interesting.  Sort of reminds of Charmed when Paige goes back in the past because she doesn't understand why her parents died and she didn't and finds out she orbed herself out of the car.

 

It wouldn't make sense that Emma would push only Hook away if she's worried she might end up hurting him.  Maybe she seems her brother do something that triggers something in her mind?

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If they really want to paralel Emma and Elsa they can have a flashback were child Emma uses her magic and by accident hurts someone, and her adoptive family sends her back. If she was happy, that can explain her trust issues without being too real world. If she was really young, the memory of the magic could be blocked, so they can explain why she doesn't remember it.

I was thinking the same thing.  We are going to see Emma as a young girl who is different because she has magic.

 

I think that Charnming's special relationship is with Kristoff.  He's helping Kristoff adjust to being a prince consort, like he had to as Snow's husband.

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I think there's plenty of drama to be mined in the Hook/Emma relationship simply due to the fact he's, you know, a pirate.

And from another world. All of Emma's serious relationships have been with guys who aren't from around here -- Neal was Rumplestiltskin's son from the Enchanted Forest, by way of Neverland. Walsh may have originally been from this world but was the Wizard of Oz. And Hook is also from another place. Given how things went with the first two, that might be enough to give her pause. Yeah, it's awesome that he gave up his ship for her, and that would definitely be kiss-worthy, but once she has a chance to think about it, there are some potential issues.

 

I wonder if maybe David and Kristoff were childhood friends, since neither was royalty growing up. Kristoff could have sold ice to David's farm, or something like that. But then that would mean it's weird if Kristoff has been running the ice cream shop in Storybrooke all this time and David didn't know.

 

If she was happy, that can explain her trust issues without being too real world. If she was really young, the memory of the magic could be blocked, so they can explain why she doesn't remember it.

It wouldn't even have to have been blocked. She just might not have been at all aware of what she'd done. She was too young to really grasp cause and effect, and if she did something unconsciously, she might not even have realized she did anything.

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If they really want to paralel Emma and Elsa they can have a flashback were child Emma uses her magic and by accident hurts someone, and her adoptive family sends her back. If she was happy, that can explain her trust issues without being too real world. If she was really young, the memory of the magic could be blocked, so they can explain why she doesn't remember it.

If she had magic as a toddler that caused problems or was misunderstood as malice or something, wouldn't it have manifested again when she was old enough to remember?  Then she would have either been more receptive to the ideas Henry presented to her when he first found her, or should have mentioned it to someone by now.  But it would actually be a quasi-plausible explanation to me as to why parents who had a child from birth would give it up at age 3.  Because who does that? 

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I wonder if maybe David and Kristoff were childhood friends, since neither was royalty growing up. Kristoff could have sold ice to David's farm, or something like that. But then that would mean it's weird if Kristoff has been running the ice cream shop in Storybrooke all this time and David didn't know.

They could also just retcon it away as David's known he's been there the whole time, and in fact, they go out for beers every Thursday, we've just never seen it.

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I wonder if maybe David and Kristoff were childhood friends, since neither was royalty growing up. Kristoff could have sold ice to David's farm, or something like that. But then that would mean it's weird if Kristoff has been running the ice cream shop in Storybrooke all this time and David didn't know.

Hmm, this is a very good point. The cast interviews strongly suggest that Anna and Kristoff have been living in Storybrooke (they are only just starting episode two; for them to have "fit in so easily" or whatever it was, they must already be there, surely?), so why wouldn't David know them? I don't think them only coming in the second curse makes sense, because the timelines wouldn't match up. Unless they were in the Cora Dome? Or is it Elsa that David knows?

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If she had magic as a toddler that caused problems or was misunderstood as malice or something, wouldn't it have manifested again when she was old enough to remember?

 

Maybe she was like Harry Potter. Strange things just happened around her/him. Maybe it just creeped the adults out and that's why they kept sending her back. The adults would know she wasn't magical (that branch just happened to fall on the kid that was teasing Emma, that toy that Emma wanted just happened to falll off the shelf, that bird just happened to land on Emma and she's pretending to talk to it), but it still may have unnerved them enough that they took the next excuse they got to send her back.

 

Meanwhile, as she grew to be older and more insular, stopped hoping for toys to fall from the shelf. She knew it wasn't possible and that she just wasn't that lucky.

 

The lights flickered when Emma gave birth to Henry and the doctors just thought it was a power issue. Muggles don't see magic because they look for other reasons for the occurrences and accept the non-magical reasons as more plausible.

 

Since intense emotions tend to cause her to use her magic, she may have an Elsa moment where she harms Hook by accident. That may get her reflecting that all those accidents and lucky turns of event when she was a child weren't necessarily non-magical.

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/07/27/elsa-frozen-abc-once-upon-a-time/13232987/

Am I the last to know about this??

Elsa (Georgina Haig, Fringe), who arrived by accident in Storybrooke in the last minutes of the Season 3 finale, will be joined on Once by her sister, Anna (recent college graduate Elizabeth Lail); iceman Kristoff (Scott Michael Foster, Greek); and Sven the reindeer (a real one). John Rhys-Davies will provide the voice of Pabbie the Rock Troll.

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I read earlier about a snowman, right?

Now they're going full reindeer and troll?

They do realize this isn't actually a cartoon, don't they?

 

Please let the reindeer be at the animal shelter David used to work at, or something.  Because the cartoon was cute, but I'm not five.

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John Rhys-Davies will provide the voice of Pabbie the Rock Troll.

 

Happy dance. I flove him. Anytime. Anywhere.  I wonder if he does marry Kristoff and Anna. In any event, the trolls would surely be invited to the wedding.

 

Please let the reindeer be at the animal shelter David used to work at, or something.

 

The animal shelter was turned into an ice cream store. It is gone.

 

From the spoiler picture we got of Kristoff and Elsa, I'm guessing Sven appears in the Fairyback in Arendale. The two actor are shown in a stable with candle lamps and Arendele style architecture. I'm guessing Sven is in the stable and that works without being cheesy. I hope he's eating a carrot.

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John Rhys-Davies?!! So cool! This pretty much confirms that Rumple didn't take the place of the Trolls. abc is definitely keeping a tight leash on the Frozen-storyline, because Adam and Eddy would have loved to do that twist (yet again). Maybe Sven will be a human in Storybrooke a la Gus Gus and Archie. But that would mean yet another guest part they need to cast. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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Trolls! They might as well go the whole shebang with Frozen. It's given them untold amounts of free publicity and interest. I really hope the trio will hold their own. Visually they look good.

As for Emma, are we sure it's a flashback or past thing? Maybe she acidentally hurts baby Neal, cause you know the name, and that sets off the "ripped from the scenes of Frozen" story. Or they can find 2 blonde toddlers and do 2 different eras flashbacks in the same episode. That would be so new and fresh and exciting!

Wow! That interviewer came out swing.

I kind of feel bad for Emilie. She looked really taken aback. And the person who posted that clip. I had to laugh at how they responded to the comments like that's not out journalist, we just posted the clip! I also laughed at Robert's "But I gave her a pillow!" bit.

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Holy shit, that person came out firing!!! Emilie de Ravin's face!

 

Maybe, just maybe, this will wind its way to Adam&Eddie's ears?

 

I actually feel bad for both of them--like, can you imagine having to be Emilie de Ravin and having to try to imagine Belle as a fully-fleshed-out character? They're both like "well...he really does love her!...he just lies to her...a lot...."

 

ETA: Guys, it sounds like there's more awesome Daddy Charming stuff upcoming! (Skip to about 1:48, and then there's more at 3:20.) Yay!

Edited by stealinghome
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I read earlier about a snowman, right?

Now they're going full reindeer and troll?

They do realize this isn't actually a cartoon, don't they?

 

Please let the reindeer be at the animal shelter David used to work at, or something.  Because the cartoon was cute, but I'm not five.

Yeah. If we are going that route, I want Olaf too.

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Sorry, Olaf's out.  Adam and Eddie have said that repeatedly.  They're deliberately leaving him out because they feel that his story belongs to the movie and he consequently has no place in the story that they want to tell.

Edited by legaleagle53
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They're deliberately leaving him out because they feel that his story belongs to the movie and that he consequently has no place in the story that they want to tell.

Or they realized they don't have the CGI budget/talent to make a talking snowman a recurring character.

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I haven't seen Frozen, so I could really give a fig about reindeers and talking snowman.  I'm worried the show will really jump the shark with them being so damn excited about everything.

 

That being said, I'm guessing that the big bad they alluded to will be EM's character whoever she ends up being.

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Sorry, Olaf's out. Adam and Eddie have said that repeatedly. They're deliberately leaving him out because they feel that his story belongs to the movie and he consequently has no place in the story that they want to tell.

I know he is out and I really don't want him on the show. But I think that the giant snowman, the reindeer and the trolls are very childish stuff so if we are going to turn Ouat into a children show (and now that I have seen Frozen I think that's a real possibility) then I want Olaf because he was the cutest character on Frozen.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Yet another interview with Adam and Eddie. Most of the same stuff, but they do mention that Star Wars is never going to be on the show (even though it is their favourite fairy tale), they specifically showed Pan and Wizard of Oz in the book in the pilot because they always planned on going there and how Elsa got cast.

 

They loved Georgina from Fringe, they met her in Vancouver (friend of Colin) and she auditioned on her honyemoon while camping on an island in Australia. They thought she brought the strength, intelligence and queenliness of Elsa.

Edited by kili
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I don't think these have been posted here yet - the vids below were published on YouTube by 3HeadedMonkey on 7/26/14 (sorry, I don't know how to reduce these videos to a word link):

 

Comic Con 2014 Once Upon a Time Panel Clip 1

 

Comic Con 2014 Once Upon a Time Panel Clip 2

 

Comic Con 2014 Once Upon a Time Panel Clip 3

 

Comic Con 2014 Once Upon a Time Panel Clip 4

Edited by tv echo
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Did they have to sign some sort of agreement not to show the videos of the previews or something? I found a 33 minute video of the panel with all the preview videos cut out? Argh.

 

Okay, this  is the best I've found...this article has a video shows four stills of Elsa and Anna showed at comicon.

Edited by kili
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A friend that changed the path of David's life? To a shepherd from ... what? I would say George coming to get him to impersonate James was a pretty big life change.

 

Hmm, an early CS obstacle that's internal to Emma but JMo can't talk about it? I can come up with interesting theories that would involve Emma flashbacks, but I'm afraid it's just going to be her stupid guilt/self-punishment over the Regina/Robin/Marian thing.

 

 

I don't have a problem with Emma having guilt over how her actions effect Regina.  It's complicated and messy emotionally.  I see it as Emma following her instincts to save a life, but then realizing that her actions hurt someone who has been making good effort in her life to turn away from her darkness.

 

 The guilt, if they play it as that, wouldn't be stupid.  It rings true for her character to me.  But hey, that is just my take.

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If her actions affected anyone but Regina, yes, Emma's guilt could be in character. But not a person who had been trying to kill Emma's mother for years, tried to kill Emma after she was born, emotionally abused Emma's son for years, raped and killed a guy Emma was starting to fall for, tried to kill Emma, put her son into coma and then tried to kill everyone in Storybrooke. Oh, and Emma had *just* watched Regina burn her mother at the stake. If after all this, Emma's reaction is anything more than "I'm sorry, it sucks, but you brought this on yourself and I don't regret saving a life", I call bullshit.

Also, it's not like Regina suffered *that* much. She also had destroyed Emma's budding romance, once upon a time, by KILLING the guy. Did she feel guilt over it? Hell, did she ever apologize?..

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I don't have a problem with Emma having guilt over how her actions effect Regina.  It's complicated and messy emotionally.  I see it as Emma following her instincts to save a life, but then realizing that her actions hurt someone who has been making good effort in her life to turn away from her darkness.

 

 The guilt, if they play it as that, wouldn't be stupid.  It rings true for her character to me.  But hey, that is just my take.

 

I was about to reply, but then FurryFury just mike-dropped it, so  ... mostly what FurryFury said.

 

I will add that I totally understand Emma feeling some guilt over it, because she's a good person and doesn't want to hurt anybody. But I will think it stupid if it goes to the level of self-punishment, colors her life in a major way or is presented as something she SHOULD feel guilty over, the way they've done with child Snow's actions. Emma should never let any guilt she feels over the unintended consequences on Regina's weeklong romance of her SAVING AN INNOCENT'S LIFE affect her life or decisions. I worry about how the show will handle that, given the way they've handled Snow's way-out-of-proportion guilt.

 

As far as the lack of video of the previews, I read somewhere that fans were indeed told not to tape them.

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If her actions affected anyone but Regina, yes, Emma's guilt could be in character. ...If after all this, Emma's reaction is anything more than "I'm sorry, it sucks, but you brought this on yourself and I don't regret saving a life", I call bullshit.

Also, it's not like Regina suffered *that* much. She also had destroyed Emma's budding romance, once upon a time, by KILLING the guy. Did she feel guilt over it? Hell, did she ever apologize?..

Replying in the Emma thread.

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