KingOfHearts October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 What the heck happened with the beer garden? Did they just not use it? Link to comment
Rumsy4 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) What the heck happened with the beer garden? Did they just not use it? Apparently--yeah. And after all that trouble they went through to build a set and all! lol Maybe they'd had a longer time-jump in mind originally. 6 weeks is rather short to build a whole new establishment without magic. ;-) Edited October 22, 2015 by Rumsy4 Link to comment
retrograde October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 My guess is it was just a quick sight gag about what had been switched with Granny's and it was cut for time. Link to comment
RadioGirl27 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) I think the flashbacks in the mid-season finale would have little to do with what is actually happening in the rest of the episode and they would be used to set 5B up, mainly whatever feud Regina has with Hook's dad. A&E are not going to make everything about Hook and keep Regina in the backburner all season. Edited October 22, 2015 by RadioGirl27 Link to comment
Hookian October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 I think the flashbacks in the mid-season finale would have little to do with what is actually happening in the rest of the episode and they would be used to set 5B up, mainly whatever feud Regina has with Hook's dad. A&E are not going to make everything about Hook and keep Regina in the backburner all season. I don't at all think Regina will have a feud with Hook's father. I think it will be Hook that does and yes I do expect that Hook is going to have a main arc in 5B hence introducing his father in the mid-season finale and not aging at that while Killian is all grown up, suggesting he's immortal. Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) About Neal and the dreamcatcher, I can't see Hook standing there, and going into a whole explanation about what happened. I guess he could've said "watch Tallahassee" for answers. I like how CS seem to have spoken in length about their pasts, how lunches are things they did on the regular, but fandom has decided they haven't banged because we haven't seen it. Right! ETA - It doesn't seem like the Camelot arc is done just yet. I guess they're keeping everything until the end of 4x11. Edited October 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
RadioGirl27 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 I don't at all think Regina will have a feud with Hook's father. I think it will be Hook that does and yes I do expect that Hook is going to have a main arc in 5B hence introducing his father in the mid-season finale and not aging at that while Killian is all grown up, suggesting he's immortal. I think you are giving too much credit to a bts pic posted by one if the actors that could mean a lot of things. But if Hook's father is alive and, especially, if he is the main villain for 5B, he is going to be linked to someone else apart from Hook, either Rumple or Regina, just like every villain since season 2 has been linked to one or both of them. As much as I love Hook, I know the show I'm watching and the place he has in it, and that is not that of the main character. 2 Link to comment
mjgchick October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 But why make him Hooks father if Hook isn't going to be Involve? I know the show is up Regina and Rumples butt but would they make him Hooks father and have Hook just stand around making sure Emma's OK? I Dont think so. Even this arc we all assumed it would be Regina all the time but it hasn't gone that way since episode 2. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Is the dreamcatcher a continuity error? I haven't seen season 2/3 in a long time. All I remember is Neal saying, "let's keep it" or something like that when Emma first explained what it was, but then it was in his apartment in season 2 and still there in 3x12. Was it ever mentioned again? Granted, he could have given it to her/let her claim it when they decided to keep it, and he just took it back and then she reclaimed it in 3x12 or somehing like that. So I guess I just don't see it being impossible or discontinuous that Neal gave the dreamcatcher to her? Link to comment
Amerilla October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Emma found it in the hotel room they "borrowed" and told Neal what it was - "It's supposed to keep all the nightmares out and only let in the good dreams in to protect your home." (Or, as Neal put it "flypaper for nightmares.") He suggested they keep it. He still had it in "Manhattan," and as far as we know, there it stayed even after Neal died and his lease, apparently, did not. ...but fandom has decided they haven't banged because we haven't seen it. Right! I think you over-estimate how many people even care if they've banged. Link to comment
Shanna Marie October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 I'm not going to be sure that Papa Hook is going to be a truly ongoing, real character who interacts with any present-day characters until I see it. The photo doesn't really prove anything. One of them could have been coming from wardrobe before shooting while the other was wrapping up shooting for the day. The flashbacks with Papa Hook could have been shot by a second unit, since that era wouldn't involve any of the regular principal actors (like the baby Rumple flashbacks), while they were also shooting something different with present Hook. There's a little timeline room to play with for Evil Queen Regina and Hook, since she didn't know he flipped sides until much later when she learned Cora was still alive. He returned from Wonderland with Cora's "body," and then I don't think we know exactly how long it was after that before the curse. There's some time when he might have still been pretending to work for Regina before he joined up with Cora and she created her protective dome as the curse hit. They may even be able to fix that continuity glitch and have Regina give him the potion for his hook -- though that undermines the bit with Aurora, when he supposedly used his ability to take one heart, unless I suppose he never used the potion and never took any hearts while pretending to work for Regina. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) I don't remember him giving it to her either. He didn't know what it was and she found it in the motel room and said that the "granola family" left it behind. Then she found it again at the end of last season when she and Lily were looking around the apartment where Neal lived Robin/Zelena/Roland were squatting. I guess I'm of the opinion that Neal could have easily been like, "it's yours" to Emma after they decided to keep it. Of course it would have happened offscreen, but it's something I can actually believe, because it would have happened before he ditched her. She went to jail, he kept it, Manhattan, kept getting left at neal's apartment(or she didn't really want it anymore), and then she eventually decides to take it back after the Lily events (offscreen of course). I could see Emma talking about to Hook at some point, if anything, I don't know if there was enough time between the events of Lily and the the finale for Hook to actually know what it looks like. So I guess I'm Team-Believable-Continuity/Team Hook&Regina-aren't-sharing-their-flashbacks/Team Papa Hook-has-never-interacted-with-Regina. Does that put me in the minority? Edited October 22, 2015 by HoodlumSheep 1 Link to comment
sharky October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Hm... Hook never says who told him about the dreamcatcher. I can imagine that could be something that Neal told him and not Emma, which would make the continuity work technically. We all know Neal isn't the saint that baby Neal was named after. He could've totally had a conversation with Hook about his adventures with Emma that included him remembering things a certain way to make himself feel better about abandoning the mother of his child. Plus, Hook did send her to Neal's apartment when she had no memories in New York and it was there. If we're right that Hook was staying there in New York, he may have just assumed again that it was something that Neal gave to Emma and then kept as a memento. I think too many of us are assuming that Emma gave him that info. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) ^ I still think there's a possibility Emma easily could have told him about it at some point in season 4. It would have just been offscreen. But anyways, I'm afraid we're veering off topic, and I suppose if anyone wants to continue discussing it, we should probably take the conversation to the continuity thread. *I just realized our discussion revolves around a script tease, so i don't know if we can discuss it openly in the continuity thread. I guess we could use spoiler tags? I don't know. Edited October 22, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
orza October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Emma could have just also told Hook she got it from Neal instead of saying explicitly she lifted it from his apartment after his death and Hook assumed Neal gave it to her while he was alive. Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 He suggested they keep it. He still had it in "Manhattan," and as far as we know, there it stayed even after Neal died and his lease, apparently, did not. The dreamcatcher made another appearance in 4x20, when Emma and Lily were with Zelena in Neal's place. Emma was surprised it had survived all those years. Link to comment
Mathius October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) I think you over-estimate how many people even care if they've banged. I think you UNDER-estimate it. :P Edited October 22, 2015 by Mathius 5 Link to comment
LizaD October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Yeah I'm not seeing the Papa Hook is still alive and will be recurring spoiler. From NYCC all we got for spoilers were a flashback to kid Hook and his dad plus another separate flashback to Woegina in supreme scene chewing mode and Hook on an adventure. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) Dang, how does everyone here (except for me) have such a great memory? Okay, so Hook's probably looking at the dreamcatcher in that one promo shot. So either he knows it can be used magically and snatches it, or Regina realizes she can use it to see if it'll reveal anything. If she's hiding it behind her back at some point, she'll probably try to use it on Emma when Emma walks away. The question is, will she learn anything important from it or get a glimpse of anything? Or get all her memories back? Which I still question why if Regina or whoever gets his or her memories back first, why wouldn't they just call a Nevengers meeting and spill the deets to everyone? Or maybe that's what's going to happen. Or the rules of the curse prevent them from doing so. Edited October 22, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 My question is more...how is this dreamcatcher different? Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Well, how many dangly feather parts are there in comparison to Emma/Neal's? Or does the design look slightly different? do we have a good pic of the different dreamcatcher? Link to comment
OnceUponAJen October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 So Emma might have left this dreamcatcher sitting out maybe hoping someone would find it? If she truly can't talk about the events in Camelot, and it contains memories that would be a good way to resolve the problem without technically breaking any orders she may have been given by someone holding the dagger. Link to comment
Mathius October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 As I said on the continuity thread, it's hilarious that it always seems to be Hook that screws up when it comes to referencing past events. The poor guy has developed serious brain damage from all those blows to the head. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 With the whole déjà vu experienced by both Violet and David, maybe that's what's going on with Hook, a déjà vu? (I'm answering my own questions!) You know, knowing that Gold and Hook sword fight on the JR in 5x10, that means Emma has actually succeeded in making Gold brave. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 As I said on the continuity thread, it's hilarious that it always seems to be Hook that screws up when it comes to referencing past events. The poor guy has developed serious brain damage from all those blows to the head. I, personally, don't count the dreamcatcher as discontinuity, because I think CS talking about it at some point is believable, and probably just happened offscreen, just like how they've obviously talked about their future together based on 5x04. Other than that, yeah, it does always seem to be Hook that gets stuck with the most discontinuities. Link to comment
pezgirl7 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Was there a spoiler about everyone's memories being trapped in the dreamcatchers Emma was making? Or was that just a theory that people here had? Sometimes I can't keep the theories straight from the actual spoilers. Maybe Emma didn't succeed in making Rumple brave. Maybe he becomes brave some other way, like because of Belle. He wouldn't fight Hook for Milah, but maybe he will fight Hook because of Belle. I really don't want Rumple fighting just to get his magic back. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 No spoilers, just a speculation. About the dreamcatcher, Emma probably brought it back with her from NYC if Hook knows what it looks like. Also speaking of continuity, Robin should recognize a dreamcatcher since he had one hanging in the apartment he lived in for like 9 weeks. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 I think that was just a theory. People counted the number of dreamcatchers and it seemed to match the number of people who went to Camelot, I think? Link to comment
Shanna Marie October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 After Emma told Neal what the dreamcatcher was, he might then have stolen it and given it to her later (because he's such a swell guy and a real romantic). So we just saw the scene where she told him what it was, and she planned to leave it behind. Or he may have given her a different one later. I can believe Emma might have talked about it to Hook. We know there's at least one in Storybrooke, even before they brought Neal's stuff back, since they used it to look at Pongo's memories. Emma may have made a habit of keeping one of her own, and she told Hook the story about why that's become meaningful to her. Link to comment
LizaD October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Another possibility is that Merlin NEEDED her to go full dark because it's necessary If this is the case then I'm going to say that head DO Rump is actually Merlin and a real separate entity, not just her "inner DO voice" as she believes. That could tie back into why Merlin trapped in a tree was able to appear to kid Emma. EK did say there was a link between Merlin and Emma but I figured that was the whole prophecy Excalibur thing. He could've been hinting at an actual physical? link. I wonder if DO Rump disappears while Merlin is walking around free and clear with Emma. That could be a clue. The warning to kid Emma still doesn't make sense though. Link to comment
KingOfHearts October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Apparently--yeah. And after all that trouble they went through to build a set and all! lol Maybe they'd had a longer time-jump in mind originally. 6 weeks is rather short to build a whole new establishment without magic. ;-) It makes you wonder if they intended to show Dark Swan returning to Storybrooke before the rest of the cast. Coming back from Camelot must not have included bringing Granny's back. If this is the case then I'm going to say that head DO Rump is actually Merlin and a real separate entity, not just her "inner DO voice" as she believes. If this is true, it puts my theory to work - Arthur and Emma both think the sword will "snuff out" something. (The darkness and the light, respectively.) Both are being manipulated to pull it out in order to accommodate someone else's agenda. Either one exterior force is using both characters with different incentives to increase the chances, or each character is unknowingly working for a separate force racing each other. 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 The show is casting a mysterious, dangerous and vindictive God-like figure known obscurely as “Distinguished Gentleman” or “DG.” Given that series co-creator Eddy Kitsis summed up Season 5B as “hell,” which quickly sparked speculation that the ABC series next will brave the Underworld, one must wonder if they’re thusly casting a very dapper Devil. Ooh... more evidence to support the Underworld arc for 5B. I bet Daddy Jones will not be the Big Bad for 5B. Link to comment
LizaD October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 It makes you wonder if they intended to show Dark Swan returning to Storybrooke before the rest of the cast. Coming back from Camelot must not have included bringing Granny's back. I think they totally redid the return. The beer garden scene was also with DS in her feathery dress that I really liked. I guess they totally threw that outfit away? Such a shame. Too bad James Spader is already on another show. I would've loved him as a devil or Hades. Link to comment
Mathius October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Vindictive, dangerous, God-like, codename "DG" that can dual-pun as "Death God"... Yeah, Hades is 5B's Big Bad, to absolutely no-one's surprise. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Yeah, Hades is 5B's Big Bad, to absolutely no-one's surprise. But this really bugs me. He's a God. How do you take on a God and defeat him? I know Once is as illogical as they come, and we saw Hook threaten Poseidon. Poseidon could've squashed him like a bug! Mortal vs God...There's no contest in that. The whole Hades is such a jump the shark moment for me. At the same time, got to wonder what happens to the darkness. Does get released again into Storybrooke, or is it destroyed once and for all since it seems Excalibur is the only thing that might achieve that. Plus I find Merlin's role to be really, really lacking. Link to comment
Curio October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Plus I find Merlin's role to be really, really lacking. Does anyone know how many episodes his actor signed up for? Because if he's only appearing in 5A, that would be a huge waste of a potentially awesome character. Maybe Merlin and Hades are secretly in cahoots and Hook's dad is their pawn who acts as Davy Jones. Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) I wonder if they don't manage to destroy the darkness, but just banish it, which would then open a portal between the Underworld and SB. They have to send back these Camelot characters too, unless they're part of a much, much lager arc. Does anyone know how many episodes his actor signed up for? Because if he's only appearing in 5A, that would be a huge waste of a potentially awesome character. I personally have no clue, but I always assumed he was in for 5A only. But they don't need an excuse to bring him back. He has a sprawling mansion in Storybrooke Hills. He's already be a part of the genesis of the town. Plus they never explained anything about that pre-Dark Curse. With the gauntlet being brought back last episode, I wonder if that's not how Rumple found the curse in the first place. I've been wondering if that tree we see everywhere in town (sheriff's badge, beautification society) isn't a representation of the tree he's trapped in. I also know nothing about trees (I just hate plants in general), so I wouldn't know if that's an apple tree or another type of tree. Edited October 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
Mathius October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Does anyone know how many episodes his actor signed up for? Because if he's only appearing in 5A, that would be a huge waste of a potentially awesome character. Maybe Merlin and Hades are secretly in cahoots and Hook's dad is their pawn who acts as Davy Jones. Merlin may very well appear in 5B if Hades is tied to the Darkness and thus has a link to the Merlin-Nimue backstory. But he's not going to be a villain, A&E confirmed already that he's a force for good. Anything "shady" about him is just the fact that good guys are written to be dumb on this show, and as the biggest good guy, Merlin is also the biggest idiot. Link to comment
KingOfHearts October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) I'm kind of tired of the "god-like", pretentious characters on this show. We had the Author, Merlin, and now what sounds like G-Man from the Half-Life series. I might have already posted this, but they said we were going to explore the origin of magic later on in 5A. This might lead into dark magic originating from the power of the Underworld. Anything "shady" about him is just the fact that good guys are written to be dumb on this show, and as the biggest good guy, Merlin is also the biggest idiot. I think he's shady in the same capacity as Blue Fairy. They're not written that way intentionally, but either they're huge idiots or there's a completely different agenda. From what we've seen of Merlin's actions already, the show would have to spend a lot of time explaining it. Up to this point, the writers have used him to further to plot without rhyme or reason. It's just... he's Merlin! He knows all! They have to send back these Camelot characters too, unless they're part of a much, much lager arc. Tbh I don't think Camelot is a priority for A&E. 5x04 was probably its big centric, besides whatever is going to happen with Merlin and Nimue. I'm guessing they might use the wand to send Team Camelot back EF to restart their kingdom more honestly. Edited October 22, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
YaddaYadda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Merlin is also the biggest idiot. I'm sure no one will argue with you on this one. I sure as hell won't! Link to comment
Hookian October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 But this really bugs me. He's a God. How do you take on a God and defeat him? I know Once is as illogical as they come, and we saw Hook threaten Poseidon. Poseidon could've squashed him like a bug! Mortal vs God...There's no contest in that. The whole Hades is such a jump the shark moment for me. At the same time, got to wonder what happens to the darkness. Does get released again into Storybrooke, or is it destroyed once and for all since it seems Excalibur is the only thing that might achieve that. Plus I find Merlin's role to be really, really lacking. You should ask Buffy she took on a God as well. ;) No but in all seriousness I can't wait I'm all for greek mythology being introduced on the show and giving us a arc based on my favorite stories. Also I think this more or less confirms Hook's father is Once's version of Davy Jones and will play a very big role in 5B. There's 0 reason to think he'll just be a one episode guest star especially now that it's confirmed we're going to The Underworld. Link to comment
PixiePaws1 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 going to be awfully disappointed if all we get of Papa Jones is Merlin telling him he has to abandon his sons to set Killian on his great destiny....! had a really ugly thought. ...what if Gold fighting Killian us Emma in disguise to make Killiam skewer her with Excalibur made whole. ...just NO...out of my head!!! Link to comment
Shanna Marie October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 I'm not sure quite how going to the Underworld necessarily automatically means Papa Hook is Davy Jones. The two may or may not be connected. I never really thought that Hook in the fight scene might be Emma in disguise, though considering how Colin knocked it out of the park when he was playing Rumple pretending to be Hook, I'd kind of like to see how he'd play Dark Emma pretending to be Hook. Emma as Rumple might make a little more sense, but I'd rather not go there. Would Hook be willing to kill a non-Dark One Rumple? He's already said he was the villain in their previous encounter, and he's become friends with Belle. I'd think he'd need a really, really strong reason to go so far as to kill him. He might fight to defend himself or another, but be willing to kill? And I'd think Emma would realize that, too. She'd have to be really damaged to want him to do that, considering she knows how hard it's been for Hook to turn back from trying to kill Rumple. 1 Link to comment
PixiePaws1 October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 She'd have to be really damaged to want him to do that, considering she knows how hard it's been for Hook to turn back from trying to kill Rumple. it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth too but thought I would float the ides anyway. ..hoping someone can squash the idea for me! Link to comment
Solace247 October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 had a really ugly thought. ...what if Gold fighting Killian us Emma in disguise to make Killiam skewer her with Excalibur made whole. ...just NO...out of my head!!! I think your theory holds water when you consider the spoilers that Head Rumple seems to be present in the scene. Like you, I wouldn't hold it up as an achievable goal for DS unless she was really able to bait Hook with some horrible taunts. It would be painful to watch. Link to comment
Mari October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 But this really bugs me. He's a God. How do you take on a God and defeat him? I know Once is as illogical as they come, and we saw Hook threaten Poseidon. Poseidon could've squashed him like a bug! Mortal vs God...There's no contest in that. I can't say I'm pleased about the Hades/Underworld possibilities, either. Seriously, show, you have lots of stuff you haven't explored, yet. How about doing a little on the fairies? One of them had to've gone bad. (fakesneezebluefakesneeze) To be fair about Poseidon and Hook, it seemed like the Poseidon in that episode was not supposed to be "Poseidon, god of the sea," but Poseidon, Merpeople king. There was even a comment made, if my recall's correct, that Ursula was named after the super powerful Ursula. Link to comment
KingOfHearts October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 (edited) To be fair about Poseidon and Hook, it seemed like the Poseidon in that episode was not supposed to be "Poseidon, god of the sea," but Poseidon, Merpeople king. There was even a comment made, if my recall's correct, that Ursula was named after the super powerful Ursula. Actually, I believe Poseidon calls himself a deity in that episode. But maybe he just thought too much of himself. I know that Hades is not the devil, as he may be commonly confused with in Western culture, but that's still a bit out there for this show. Technically he's a Disney villain, but he's also a whole other ballpark from everything else on the show. This isn't just some mad witch. Yeah it may not be Hades, but if we're going Underworld, it'll definitely have to be someone beyond anyone's scope. Frankly, I think it veers too off the show's track. It's also a little too dark and hopeless for the show's tone. If people are complaining about Dark Swan being depression, wait until eternal damnation enters the mix. Edited October 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
Writing Wrongs October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 Are they moving into Supernatural and Sleepy Hollow territory? Ugh. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 (edited) Vindictive, dangerous, God-like, codename "DG" that can dual-pun as "Death God"...*chants*Horned King! Horned King! HORNED KING! HOOORRRNNNEEDD KKKIIINNGGG!!!!!!!!I will never stop hoping. A&E will have to personally rip my greatest wish/theory from my cold dead hands. It'd be an alternative to Hades. I'm fine with them crossing into greek mythology, but if anyone wants an alternative that could still fit the "hell" theme, this is it. Either way, sounds like 5b might be dark and dreary like 4b. At least Camelot is doing a pretty decent job of balancing the dark with the light (mainly due to the romance/adventure stuff). Or I guess Dr. Facilier (spelling?) from princess and a frog could work too. I don't know if they could squeeze a whole story arc out of that story though. Edited October 23, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
Watt October 23, 2015 Share October 23, 2015 First, if Hades is like his Disney counterpart, bring him on. Hades makes the best gifsets. Second, if this show wasn't already overrun with too many damn characters I would DIE to have Meg on it. As it is, I'm just blah so far on this show. I mean, I'm sure that Jen is loving it and good for her but I'm finding all the doom and gloom tedious. 1 Link to comment
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