Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[BaggythePanther]

I can't imagine what the horses in SB would be for! Dark Emma decides cars are so last year, makes everyone use horses? Maybe?!

She did miss out on getting to have her own horse as a kid. Maybe she figures better late than never.

[Curio]

So there will be horseback riders in Storybrooke, according to the filming notice. I wonder if there's some sort of SB/Camelot overlap happening?

 

I'm halfway thinking they might just dress Steveson up to look like Camelot for some of the shots. If they need to make it look like they're riding the horses down a street surrounded by large castle buildings, it might be easier to CGI the street instead of using their smaller soundstage. I guess we'll find out tomorrow!

[kili]

If they need to make it look like they're riding the horses down a street surrounded by large castle buildings, it might be easier to CGI the street instead of using their smaller soundstage.

 

I don't know. They have to compensate businesses for lost business during filming days. If they are going to CGI out everything, why not film it on an empty road somewhere instead? Far cheaper and far less set hanger-ons (I'd say less likely some doofi will walk in front of the racing horses, but they filmed a horse chase on one of the busiest streets in the city to make it look like New York, so they seem to know how to hire enough security guards to make people behave when necessary). I guess they might do it if they don't want to go to an extra location.

[Souris]

They've put up the fake Storybrooke signs on the businesses, so they must be planning to use it as SB.

[Souris]

Based on the dress shoes in the pic I posted in the Spoilers Only thread, looks like they filmed Storybrooke stuff today, with Hook and at least one dwarf. Or was Sneezy part of the crew that went to Camelot? In that case, his dress shoes would've gone along.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Souris

[Serena]

Okay, I went and compared clothes. Charming is wearing the same shirt on the 21st that he had when he went to Camelot. So is Robin, I think (but does he actually change his clothes? I don't pay that much attention). 

As for which dwarves went to Camelot: Grumpy, Doc, and possibly Happy? Is the guy with the red shirt Happy?

Sneezy should definitely be back in SB if Dark Swan freezes him in the flashforward. However, I don't think the BTS photo with Colin's chair necessarily means that they filmed together. If they're in studio, there could be two units and the chairs are, like, near the refreshments or something.

[YaddaYadda]

This filming stuff is complicated, so I will let you guys figure it out.

 

I had a thought about Camelot and I started wondering if the place isn't cursed like Storybrooke was.  Camelot is a place outside of time, it exists in the past/present/future or whatever drivel A&E came up with.  Camelot has its own problem to deal with.

 

What if it's purely and simply cursed where it is a groundhog day type of situation but the people who live there actually remember their lives and know who they are and that their lives aren't moving because they are cursed and they are just doomed to repeat their days over and over without being able to do anything about it until their own Savior shows up?

 

And no, I doubt Regina is Camelot's Savior or anything like that, although I'm sure the reason Gwen is young and married to someone who might be 10 years her senior is to try and parallel the Regina/Leopold situation.

[Serena]

And no, I doubt Regina is Camelot's Savior or anything like that, although I'm sure the reason Gwen is young and married to someone who might be 10 years her senior is to try and parallel the Regina/Leopold situation.

If they were going for this they super failed with casting. Arthur looks like this. I bet without the scruff he'd look like an actual baby.

As for Groundhog day Camelot... well, they must find some way for them not to have aged during the curse, so maybe... just spitballing... Merlin saved Camelot from the Dark Curse, Cora-style, and they all got frozen in time like the people under the Coradome. Except they didn't get unfrozen when Emma came to Storybrooke, because Merlin put a different "trigger" there. Because, after the Lancelot affair, Camelot and its "golden age" had begun imploding (isn't that how the legend goes?). So Camelot will remain frozen until whoever it is that will bring the new golden age of Camelot (the new King Arthur) shows up. Or the Holy Grail shows up. Or whatever. And that person will be... ARTHUR'S NEW BRO CHARMING. 

 

Just kidding, Charming won't have a storyline.

[RadioGirl27]

As for Groundhog day Camelot... well, they must find some way for them not to have aged during the curse, so maybe... just spitballing... Merlin saved Camelot from the Dark Curse, Cora-style, and they all got frozen in time like the people under the Coradome. Except they didn't get unfrozen when Emma came to Storybrooke, because Merlin put a different "trigger" there. Because, after the Lancelot affair, Camelot and its "golden age" had begun imploding (isn't that how the legend goes?). So Camelot will remain frozen until whoever it is that will bring the new golden age of Camelot (the new King Arthur) shows up. Or the Holy Grail shows up. Or whatever. And that person will be... ARTHUR'S NEW BRO CHARMING.

Just kidding, Charming won't have a storyline.

Maybe that person is Hook, and that's why Arthur and him look like they can be related.

Nah, I'm also kidding. Hook is not getting a storyline (other than mope because Emma is now dark).

[YaddaYadda]

As for Groundhog day Camelot... well, they must find some way for them not to have aged during the curse, so maybe... just spitballing... Merlin saved Camelot from the Dark Curse, Cora-style, and they all got frozen in time like the people under the Coradome.

 

Camelot should be out of Cora's reach and the Dark Curse's reach.  I meant that it's their own curse basically.

 

I'm going off the title of the second episode which I think might have to do with the Camelot backstory.  Maybe it's the price for all the magic there.  We have no idea how Arthur came to his throne for one thing.  

 

And the guy who plays Arthur, I certainly would not kick that out of bed.  Knowing this show, he did something awful, pissed off his wife something fierce, she turns to another man because of it.  Said man gets banished which pisses her off even more and makes her miserable.

 

My friend and I were chatting last weekend over magaritas and tappas while checking on the filming in Stevetson and she is beyond convinced that Snowing and Arthur/Guinevere will parallel each other in their tragedies.  She might also have been drunk.

[Amerilla]

Just kidding, Charming won't have a storyline.

 

Nah, I'm also kidding. Hook is not getting a storyline (other than mope because Emma is now dark).

 

Maybe it's because I just binge-watched two seasons of Penny Dreadful, maybe it's because the Men of Once have gotten so friggin' boring, but I'd be perfectly happy if Charming, Hook and Hood spent the season moping and playing poker over Rumpel's comatose body while Regina, Snow and Belle band together to Get Shit Done.

[KingOfHearts]

Unless Camelot has its own curse. That would explain why Merlin was harboring the Dark Curse in the first place.

[YaddaYadda]

Unless Camelot has its own curse. That would explain why Merlin was harboring the Dark Curse in the first place.

That's exactly what I'm saying.  Camelot has its very own curse that needs to be broken and maybe time starts moving there when the gang arrives from Storybrooke, just like time started moving in SB when Emma decided to stay.  We just wouldn't know who is the particular Savior in that curse.

[Curio]

Maybe it's because I just binge-watched two seasons of Penny Dreadful, maybe it's because the Men of Once have gotten so friggin' boring, but I'd be perfectly happy if Charming, Hook and Hood spent the season moping and playing poker over Rumpel's comatose body while Regina, Snow and Belle band together to Get Shit Done.

 

Is it bad that I'd rather watch the poker game?

[RedKeep]

 

Maybe it's because I just binge-watched two seasons of Penny Dreadful, maybe it's because the Men of Once have gotten so friggin' boring, but I'd be perfectly happy if Charming, Hook and Hood spent the season moping and playing poker over Rumpel's comatose body while Regina, Snow and Belle band together to Get Shit Done.

I'm always a lot more interested in the women on this show too. I don't mind a little bit of Charming here and there and I think the same would be true for Robin for me if not for that complete disaster of a story with Zelena they've trapped him with. Minimal Rumple and Hook and that dreadful Zelena part of Robin's story while Snow, Belle and Regina do the heavy lifting in dealing with and trying to help Dark Swan would be perfectly fine with me.

[tennisgurl]

I really like Charming and Hook, but I can get where your coming from. I think their characters are interesting and have potential for lots of interesting stories, but the writers don't really know what to do with them (especially Charming) other than be the boytoys of the ladies. So they (again, especially Charming) get very repetitive stories, because the writers cant commit to giving them something more interesting.

 

Plus, neither of them is connected to Regina, and the Powers That Be have straight up said they have to cut non Regina stories for more Regina time, and most of Regina`s main relationships are with women (and Robin, who...is here). 

[Amerilla]

And frankly, I add Regina in my prefered #TeamGettingShitDone only

 

a) as a bow to the reality of the centrality of Regina to the show, as much I personally don't much care for her, and;

 

b) because I'm fascinated by the Snow-Regina dynamic, much more so than the Emma-Regina dynamic.

 

If I were Queen of the Showrunners, it'd just be Snow and Belle. I think they would make an interesting team because they'd both be working towards a goal from different ends - they both want the Dark One gone from their lives, Snow for Emma and Belle for Rumpel. There would be a built-in tension if it becomes a scenario where only one of the two can be saved, or over the reality that Belle choose to bring the Dark One back to life in S3.

 

And it's an opportunity to flesh out a lady-bromance that has only existed in in OffScreenville. Since Belle was with Snowing for pretty much all of the Missing Year and has been Snowflake's primary caregiver, there's plenty of material to exploit.

 

But - because TS;TW - I know to the marrow of my very bones, none of that is going to happen.

 

Maybe a crack theory, but speaking of Sleeping Rumpel...we've see Belle holding a bell jar in every spoiler pic so far, and that clearly has something to do with Rumpel and getting him back on his feet.

 

However, at SDCC, Bobby passingly said something about it not being Belle who awakens him, but he alludes to another "she" or "her" doing the job. (Sorry, I can't find the direct quote.) Given that we know Keegan has been filming, is it possible that Blue wakes Rumpel up, either altruistically or for some Shady purpose?

 

Talk about un-mined narrative territory: Rumpel-as-Dark-One probably hated Blue more than any other being, since she was the one who gave Bae the magic bean and the genius idea of portaling papa to another world for the good of the realms. The two of them really interacting, rather than just occasionally glaring at each other, has long been on my wish list. But: TS;TW.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

The two of them really interacting, rather than just occasionally glaring at each other, has long been on my wish list.

 

That would be a long time coming and would make for some really good scenes, I think.  I mean even Blue/Regina or Blue being against the whole why are we teaming up with these people exactly while talking to Snowing.  Blue is very underutilized not because I love her, but because it makes sense to use her because she's where this whole quest for Rumple began.  Her actions of wanting to get rid of Rumple and send him to the LwM has had repercussion for EVERYONE.

 

Maybe Merlin who she hasn't seen a really long time is the one who put her up to it and gave her the "last" magic bean to send Rumple on his way.  Those two have to know each other well enough that she might be able to help find him.

Edited July 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Watt]

I don't want to watch Belle do anything because I can't understand anything the actress says.

[Serena]

Yeah, none of Belle's potential relationships interest me. She doesn't really bring anything to the table. I guess I would be interested in seeing her deal with Hook - I liked their scenes in 4B, and she is in the unique position of knowing what being in love with the DO is like.

[Curio]

I guess I would be interested in seeing her deal with Hook - I liked their scenes in 4B, and she is in the unique position of knowing what being in love with the DO is like.

 

I'd actually love to see a Belle/Hook episode where they have to use their combined knowledge of the Dark One to figure out how to navigate through the catacombs of the original Dark One's lair to grab a deus ex machina potion that can help them out in Camelot. What gives me some hope is how Colin mentioned the parallel between Belle loving Dark Rumple and Hook loving Dark Emma during SDCC, so I'd be surprised if those two characters didn't at least share a brief conversation about it. But I expect it to only last 45 seconds before we cut to an entire episode of Regina wailing about how hard it is to be the new savior and whatever shenanigans the Camelot Crew get themselves into.

[didia]

Yeah, I don't care about Belle, I don't think the writers care about  her either. I do believe they only kept Belle in the show because fans wanted a love interest for Rumple. We know they wanted to kill David in  the pilot (thank God it didn't happen). That is why they don't use them as much as they could.

 

The good thing is: we have a big team in Camelot. If you like the Charmings (I do), CS (yes!), Belle, OQ, Zelena, you will feel represented. I hope it is more like Neverland than the frozen arc. I hope they use the opportunity to develop those characters.

[Serena]

So the dwarves and the Camelot knights are in SB (while at least the Charmings, Regina and Robin are with Arthur in Camelot, or at least have filmed scenes there) and I officially have no idea WTF is going on.

Is this present time? Flashforward? 

These have been the most confusing set of spoilers the show has ever had.

[retrograde]

If there has been a swap, it's weird they didn't leave more main characters in Storybrooke. There's only so much mileage you can get out of the dwarves.

[Mari]

Are we sure that most of what's going on in Storybrooke is present time, instead of a flashback or flashforward? Is it possible that the t one jump is to them being in Camelot, while the Storybrooke scenes are the exposition about how they got there and/or Dark Emma future? That would open up a lot more characters for the SB scenes, and switch the fairyback formula up a little.

[YaddaYadda]

If there has been a swap, it's weird they didn't leave more main characters in Storybrooke. There's only so much mileage you can get out of the dwarves.

 

But Grumpy and Happy both made the trip to Camelot.  And they according to the Spoiler thread only, Lee Arenberg was on set with the Camelot peeps yesterday in "Camelot".  It almost seems like they can just cross in and out of Storybrooke.

[Serena]

I'm sticking to the "Storybrooke is flashforward" theory for now. Granny's was destroyed and taken to Camelot. The main cast seems to still be in Camelot. The fact that Granny's seems to be intact can only mean a good amount of time has passed, for it to have been rebuilt. 

[Souris]

Either they're crossing back & forth, or we've got two frames going on. I'm guessing different time frames.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

There were three knights on horses riding down to Granny's with the dwarves walking in front of them. Since Granny's is still intact, and Grumpy is there, maybe this is happening before the twister comes to take the group to Camelot? Maybe the knights show up in Storybrooke (I have no idea how) and say that they need everyone's help and that Emma is in Camelot, and then the twister comes and they all go back? But that honestly doesn't make much sense, so who knows.

[mjgchick]

Yeah Belle is not what i call an exciting character but I rather watch her with the Charmings or Hook than with Rumple.

 

Once Upon A Time is the one show where people are annoyed that the male characters are used as props. Well this show and Pretty Little Liars.

[Curio]

Once Upon A Time is the one show where people are annoyed that the male characters are used as props. Well this show and Pretty Little Liars.

 

Responding in the All Seasons thread.

[Souris]

FWIW, Grumpy looks like he's wearing the same outfit today in SB as shooting in the park yesterday.

[YaddaYadda]

How does Granny's get rebuilt if everyone including the owner of Granny's are in Camelot?

 

Is Storybrooke the new Enchanted Forest flashbacks or whatever?

[pezgirl7]

Arthur is one of the three knights. I thought he might be, since he was the only one with a white horse in Camelot. Since Grumpy is dressed the same as he was in Camelot, maybe my theory does make a little sense! Maybe the Camelot people used something like a magic bean to get to Storybrooke, so it was a one way trip, hence needing the tornado to get back. But did they bring their horses into Granny's too?!

[Shanna Marie]

But did they bring their horses into Granny's too?!

Probably not. No one thinks of the horses. What happened to all the horses that should have been in the Enchanted Forest when the curse struck? You'd think there would have been a lot of them, far more than that one stable in Storybrooke could have held. Were the horses left behind for the ogres to eat?

[Serena]

This is the most confused I've ever been in my life.

[OnceUponAJen]

This is definitely a bunch of what-the-hell spoilers.

[YaddaYadda]

This is the most confused I've ever been in my life.

And that's actually okay because it doesn't take the element of surprise away.  Last year we pretty much had everything sort of figured out.  Still makes me look forward to the episodes.

 

I always have high hopes when people from the EF show up in Storybrooke, so can Arthur have a WTF moment.  Maybe Merlin sent Arthur on his mission.  If Emma is also there, then that will get even more confusing.  The pier has sort of been hers and Hook's spot for a while now.  If Jen and Colin are the actors filming scenes there, then I can't imagine how wild the speculations will get (with anything involving Emma at this point, really).

 

I have to say, I'm really looking forward to Arthur more so than any other new character we get this season.

Edited July 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

Even the PAs are trolling. One of them said most of the main cast will be filming today. 

Another said none of them are. 

 

Personally, I'm sideeyeing the possibility that this episode may have 5 whole scenes with none of the main cast.

[Rumsy4]

I think the scenes with Arthur and his knights in Storybrooke is a flashforward. Here's how I think the timeline goes:

 

1. The Nevengers discover that Emma ended up in Camelot (blood magic/crystal ball/whatever).

2. They "hijack" Zelena's twister and direct it to Camelot. Granny's accidentally gets sucked into the twister along with a couple of the dwarfs.

3. The Nevengers find Emma and forgather in Arthur's castle.

4. Shenanigans ensue/Emma slowly gives in to the Darkness and finally becomes the Dark Swan.

5. In the meantime, Storybrooke has moved on. Sneezy has become the Sheriff, and a Beer Garten is built to replace Granny's.

6. Dark Emma returns to Storybrooke. She gets mad, turns Sneezy to stone, and destroys the Beer Garten in a fit of rage.

7. The Nevengers return to Storybrooke via Granny's Diner, which goes back to its original location, the Beer Garten having been conveniently destroyed by Emma. Arthur and his knights hitch a ride with the Nevengers to Storybrooke (intentionally or not).

8. Everyone is back in Storybrooke for the completion of the Camelot arc.

 

I suspect we are seeing the events of 5-7 as a flashforward. I don't know if the flashforwards will continue for most of the season or merely for the first episode, but it sure makes for an interesting change. We have to go back, Kate!!

[Curio]

I'm kind of sad to see the Camelot people in Storybrooke already. I was really hoping we'd spend a lot more time with the main characters hanging out in Camelot. (There's still a chance these are flash forwards, but as with everything on this show: lower your expectations.)

[Serena]

I would love that because I've been waiting for the flashbacks(/forwards) to tell a cohesive story again, like in S1 where it told Snowing's courtship up until their engagement, instead of being random vignettes from people's lives like it's been for the last 3 seasons.

[pezgirl7]

7. The Nevengers return to Storybrooke via Granny's Diner, which goes back to its original location, the Beer Garten having been conveniently destroyed by Emma. Arthur and his knights hitch a ride with the Nevengers to Storybrooke (intentionally or not).

 

This all sounds good, but why would there only be 3 knights outside of Granny's, and why would they be on their horses? Also why would they get into a fight with the dwarves? The spoilers say there was a fight and one of the knights took one of the dwarf's pickaxe. I'm not expecting you to answer these by the way. :)

[Watt]

This is the most confused I've ever been in my life.

You must not watch PLL. Heh.

[sharky]

I'm kind of sad to see the Camelot people in Storybrooke already. I was really hoping we'd spend a lot more time with the main characters hanging out in Camelot. (There's still a chance these are flash forwards, but as with everything on this show: lower your expectations.)

I'm not sure what's going on but there's definitely a timeline issue. I would bet that we'll see the Camelot people in Storybrooke for several more episodes. It will definitely be a bit confusing though this season without the typical flashback set-up.

 

We have to go back, Kate!!

I thought the same thing! :)

[KingOfHearts]

If Camelot is in its own time bubble, could it be that the Nevengers return after what seems to be a short time to find it's been longer?

[YaddaYadda]

Why would Grumpy and/or Happy attack the knights and/or Arthur if they already know who they are?

 

So Storybrooke must be the flashbacks and Camelot must be present time.  The dwarves have no reason to attack anyone if they already know who they are.

[Curio]

Why would Grumpy and/or Happy attack the knights and/or Arthur if they already know who they are?

 

Or Grumpy does know who he is. Maybe Arthur is revealed as a villain in Camelot, so when he and his gang arrive in Storybrooke later in the timeline, Grumpy knows to attack them because he knows they're up to no good.

[Souris]

Since Josh has been spotted on set, seems like the report of no main cast filming today was incorrect.

[YaddaYadda]

Or Grumpy does know who he is. Maybe Arthur is revealed as a villain in Camelot, so when he and his gang arrive in Storybrooke later in the timeline, Grumpy knows to attack them because he knows they're up to no good.

 

Yeah, so this shit is beyond confusing.  I'm gonna sit back and enjoy my headache, I think.  I will cry and I mean CRY if Arthur is some evil dude.  Robin is a douche and Arthur is evil and my level of being able to deal with this is not so good because Robin is not supposed to be a douche and Arthur is not supposed to be evil.