Approach The Bench: Law & Order General Discussion Thread

[WendyCR72]

UGH. Too hot to sleep.

But I see WE is flipping the schedule again. Starting on 09/05/17, the Mothership is on all day/night on Tuesday, from 11:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. Wednesday. It flips with CI, which - from the looks of it - will air all day on Wednesday, starting on 09/06/17. No idea what the rest of the week holds as the rest of the week isn't up yet.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

"We were married for 25 yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!"

Oh Mah Gawd, why don't you shut up?

Also, It's very weird to look up and see Cerreta and Not!Briscoe in the same room.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"We were married for 25 yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!"

 

There SERIOUSLY needs to be a T-Shirt with this Quote in big bold CAPS!!!?????????

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There SERIOUSLY needs to be a T-Shirt with this Quote in big bold CAPS!!!?????????

With a complimentary alcoholic beverage of one's choice, so they can drink themselves into sweet oblivion, so as not to hear it anymore.

[WendyCR72]

On 5/5/2017 at 0:08 PM, biakbiak said:

In Hate from season 9 which just aired it's revealed that the person who killed his daughter died of a heroine overdose, so this seems more a continuity issue.

Or...you can stretch both "realities" by thinking someone smuggled some drugs into the prison and make both fit!  :-)

[AnnieBananie]

Has anyone mentioned the L&O podcast on here yet? It is the BEST. I feel like I'd be doing a disservice to this crowd if I didn't bring it up. :)

http://www.lawandorderpodcast.com/

On their most recent episode, they discussed S8E5 "Nullification," ("Who are you, James Bond minus three?") which was one of the first episodes I ever saw and has a special place in my heart. 

[Beroglide]

Looking at the Ion Television promos, it's funny how they included that clip from Cassady's first episode where she made that promise the victim's family.  You can even see Van Buren's discerned look in the background.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Manhood on Sundance tonight, that episodes ending may piss me off more than the ending of any other episode. Those scumbag cops let the gay cop die and the jury knew it but they acquitted regardless. Stupidest verdict in L&O history, unfortunately similar stuff happens in real life. And yet I always watch that episode when it is on, it's an outstanding episode, one of L&O's best from the early years, I especially love Stone and Schiff in that one, Stone's closing argument is one of the best, and Schiff had a lot of great lines, and the scene at the end between Stone and Schiff where Stone is blaming himself and Schiff tells him that there wasn't anymore he could've done and they discuss the case is an excellent scene. This episode was very bold and progressive for 1993, before the gay rights movement became mainstream and popular, putting the characters on the pro gay side was a bold move for L&O in a time when homophobia was still very rampant. L&O always had a good track record on dealing with LGBT issues and Manhood was one of their best episodes.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Xeliou66

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Scrambled is on WE right now, and Jack keeps saying 'Carl Galvin' over and over instead of 'Coral Galvin'. Very tiny nitpick, but its driving me crazy.

[stonehaven]

Watching episodes from the later seasons....on ION...and I really detest the Fontana character....just watched the one where he reopened a 10 year old cold case....and every time Fontana would get schooled, I cheered....

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Watching episodes from the later seasons....on ION...and I really detest the Fontana character....just watched the one where he reopened a 10 year old cold case....and every time Fontana would get schooled, I cheered....

Why did you hate Fontana? He could be unlikable, he was somewhat abrasive and arrogant, but it least he was interesting to watch, with the way he would casually lie to suspects about things and his somewhat odd behavior. He had personality unlike his Beauty Queen successor. Filling Lennie Briscoe's shoes was a hard thing to do, but I'm glad Fontana had his own unique personality and didn't try to be a Briscoe clone. So overall I kind of enjoyed Fontana and his seasons. 

[biakbiak]

21 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Watching episodes from the later seasons....on ION...and I really detest the Fontana character....just watched the one where he reopened a 10 year old cold case....and every time Fontana would get schooled, I cheered....

Add me in on the Fontana hate. I actually refuse to watch any episodes from his season. The few episodes where it was him and Michael Imperiolio are the only Law and  Order episodes I haven’t watched all the way through.

[CoderLady]

I felt the same way. I thought he had a bit too many personality quirks for a Law & Order regular character. For a while I stopped watching the show until he was gone but now it means I get to watch some episodes that are new to me so it kinda works out.

[wanderingstar]

Even though I'd been a Dennis Farina fan since the 80s, I initially did not like Fontana. He was just so drastically different from Lennie. But as I've watched reruns of his seasons, I've come to like his character. He has a good rapport with Green, and I love his quasi antagonistic relationship with Van Buren.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Gillian Rosh
Removed extra word

[Xeliou66]

I liked Fontana because he didn't try to be Lennie at all, rather he brought his own unique style. A Lennie 2.0 would've been the worst thing the show could've done, Lennie couldn't be replaced so it was best to get someone who was very different. I didn't like Falco at all though and I don't care for the Falco/Fontana episodes, the combined abrasiveness of the 2 made the episodes harder to watch. I thought Fontana worked very well with the smoother, more unassuming and consistent Green. 

I think that a lot of the unpopularity of the Fontana years come from the problems the second half of the show had. Borgia and Serena are almost universally thought of as the 2 weakest ADA's the show had, and while I don't have the dislike others have for Arthur Branch, I disliked how often he would inject his right wing political views into the discussion and wished he would just shut his trap about politics and focus on the case, the episodes overall seemed a bit more political in this era, a few too many Iraq War themed episodes. The second half could be exasperating with the combination of Serena/Borgia and Branch, all of whom could be irritating on a somewhat frequent basis. 

[wknt3]

On 10/13/2017 at 9:48 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Why did you hate Fontana? He could be unlikable, he was somewhat abrasive and arrogant, but it least he was interesting to watch, with the way he would casually lie to suspects about things and his somewhat odd behavior. He had personality unlike his Beauty Queen successor. Filling Lennie Briscoe's shoes was a hard thing to do, but I'm glad Fontana had his own unique personality and didn't try to be a Briscoe clone. So overall I kind of enjoyed Fontana and his seasons. 

 

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked Fontana because he didn't try to be Lennie at all, rather he brought his own unique style. A Lennie 2.0 would've been the worst thing the show could've done, Lennie couldn't be replaced so it was best to get someone who was very different. I didn't like Falco at all though and I don't care for the Falco/Fontana episodes, the combined abrasiveness of the 2 made the episodes harder to watch. I thought Fontana worked very well with the smoother, more unassuming and consistent Green. 

I think that a lot of the unpopularity of the Fontana years come from the problems the second half of the show had. Borgia and Serena are almost universally thought of as the 2 weakest ADA's the show had, and while I don't have the dislike others have for Arthur Branch, I disliked how often he would inject his right wing political views into the discussion and wished he would just shut his trap about politics and focus on the case, the episodes overall seemed a bit more political in this era, a few too many Iraq War themed episodes. The second half could be exasperating with the combination of Serena/Borgia and Branch, all of whom could be irritating on a somewhat frequent basis. 

 

Thanks for saving me some typing, I've said the same things previously on the UO thread. I think the problem many viewers had was that he was replacing an icon and was superficially similar to Lennie/Jerry but was very different (and intentionally so) so that there was even more disappointment that he wasn't Briscoe. Also they never softened him as much as they usually did with characters in the franchise who started out with rough edges to make them cuddlier and more sympathetic (Logan, Briscoe, Eames, Fin) which didn't help viewers warm up to him. And yes the legal side was weak and the writing in general was declining during the Fontana years and he gets unfairly blamed for that. I also said in UO that he saved the show by keeping it going until Connie came in. If they had a weaker actor instead of Farina playing a character the writers didn't have as strong a grasp on you would have had an anchor weighing down both halves of the show and it probably would have been cancelled. Can you imagine Cassidy and Serena at the same time?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

 

 

Thanks for saving me some typing, I've said the same things previously on the UO thread. I think the problem many viewers had was that he was replacing an icon and was superficially similar to Lennie/Jerry but was very different (and intentionally so) so that there was even more disappointment that he wasn't Briscoe. Also they never softened him as much as they usually did with characters in the franchise who started out with rough edges to make them cuddlier and more sympathetic (Logan, Briscoe, Eames, Fin) which didn't help viewers warm up to him. And yes the legal side was weak and the writing in general was declining during the Fontana years and he gets unfairly blamed for that. I also said in UO that he saved the show by keeping it going until Connie came in. If they had a weaker actor instead of Farina playing a character the writers didn't have as strong a grasp on you would have had an anchor weighing down both halves of the show and it probably would have been cancelled. Can you imagine Cassidy and Serena at the same time?

I checked out after Orbach left and only sporadically watched. But speaking for myself, I wasn’t looking for or expected the next detective to be a Lennie clone-Lennie was Lennie, and he moved on to that horrid Trial By Jury (though it was nice to see Jamie and know she was now a judge), but Fontana just rubbed me the wrong way-too much of violating rights in the name of “justice” for me. And when Falco came on because Martin was on Broadway doing Rent, it gave me whiffs of mafia who are cops.?‍♀️

As for the bolded-Logan had rough edges that were smoothed out? He’s always had a temper and that never changed. It was the very same temper that got him booted to Staten Island for a decade.? Same with Lennie-he was a tough, sarcastic NY cop. I don’t know what softening was done with him. With Fin over on SVU, agree.

Branch’s DA will ALWAYS be Foghorn Leghorn for me.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

And yes the legal side was weak and the writing in general was declining during the Fontana years and he gets unfairly blamed for that.

In my case I hated the character and it had nothing to do with Lenny, I also don't care at all for Farina in nearly every other role has ever done. I actually liked Borgia and didn't mind Serena at al, so it wasn't because of the weakened second half. 

 

16 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

but Fontana just rubbed me the wrong way-too much of violating rights in the name of “justice” for me.

Bingo. It's why I had to give up on SVU because Stabler and Benson often made me root for the criminals. His smug attitude about everything just set my teeth on edge. I also didn't think he had good chemistry with the rest of the cast.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

 

Thanks for saving me some typing, I've said the same things previously on the UO thread. I think the problem many viewers had was that he was replacing an icon and was superficially similar to Lennie/Jerry but was very different (and intentionally so) so that there was even more disappointment that he wasn't Briscoe. Also they never softened him as much as they usually did with characters in the franchise who started out with rough edges to make them cuddlier and more sympathetic (Logan, Briscoe, Eames, Fin) which didn't help viewers warm up to him. And yes the legal side was weak and the writing in general was declining during the Fontana years and he gets unfairly blamed for that. I also said in UO that he saved the show by keeping it going until Connie came in. If they had a weaker actor instead of Farina playing a character the writers didn't have as strong a grasp on you would have had an anchor weighing down both halves of the show and it probably would have been cancelled. Can you imagine Cassidy and Serena at the same time?

Yeah I agree with what you are saying here. A lot of people were going to hate him no matter what because he wasn't Lennie and Lennie was L&O's most beloved characters, but I appreciated how Fontana wasn't Lennie 2.0 and was his own character. And yeah the legal side had issues during those years and I think Fontana gets unfairly blamed for it, if Rubirosa had been on in seasons 15-16 the show would've been a lot better. In season 17 the writing was the worst it has ever been and Beauty Queen cop was awful, it was fortunate the legal side was much better with Rubirosa coming in, if the dull as dirt sanctimonious Borgia had still been on the show would've been canceled IMO. 

35 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I checked out after Orbach left and only sporadically watched. But speaking for myself, I wasn’t looking for or expected the next detective to be a Lennie clone-Lennie was Lennie, and he moved on to that horrid Trial By Jury (though it was nice to see Jamie and know she was now a judge), but Fontana just rubbed me the wrong way-too much of violating rights in the name of “justice” for me. And when Falco came on because Martin was on Broadway doing Rent, it gave me whiffs of mafia who are cops.?‍♀️

As for the bolded-Logan had rough edges that were smoothed out? He’s always had a temper and that never changed. It was the very same temper that got him booted to Staten Island for a decade.? Same with Lennie-he was a tough, sarcastic NY cop. I don’t know what softening was done with him. With Fin over on SVU, agree.

Branch’s DA will ALWAYS be Foghorn Leghorn for me.

I didn't find Fontana to be one who constantly violated rights, the only time I can ever remember him crossing the line was the episode where he stuck the guy's head in a toilet to get him to give up the location of the kidnapped girl, very interesting episode BTW. Fontana could be stuck up, abrasive and arrogant but I didn't find him to be a civil rights violater, not nearly as bad as Rey Curtis or Stabler to name 2 who actually did routinely violate suspects rights. As for the changing of the characters, I didn't see that Logan changed at all, Eames either. Both of them seemed very consistent through the years. Fin softened somewhat over time on SVU but not drastically. Briscoe changed a lot after his first episode, in his debut he behaved like a loud mouthed douchebag and even got jumped by Cragen for making insensitive racial comments. Fortunately they changed him quickly after his first appearance, I'm unsure why he was like that at the start, very weird. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I agree with what you are saying here. A lot of people were going to hate him no matter what because he wasn't Lennie

I also said the same in the UO thread. Look, did I think Fontana was awesome? No. But I do think Dennis Farina was a good actor (which he had proven in his '80s period police show Crime Story). As I had said there, I don't think anyone would have been accepted being Briscoe's de facto "replacement". Jerry Orbach was a really tough act to follow.

This is not meant to shame those who did dislike/hate Fontana. We like who we like and we hate who we hate. But - to me - I just think the timing was such that the odds were just stacked against any replacement since Lennie Briscoe was such an iconic and beloved character.

I did appreciate the sort of meta aspect since Dennis Farina was a real Chicago cop before becoming an actor.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn't see that Logan changed at all, Eames either

I did see it with Eames. S1 is airing on WE late nights now and she was MUCH more "by the book" and rigid. She definitely softened in that regard. Even her clothes "softened" big time. S1 had her in suits and even the occasional skirt. Well before her beloved leather jacket and layered or sleeveless tops she later favored.

Logan? He seemed a bit more measured later on, especially on CI when it was his turn to be the partner with the voice of reason vis a vis Falacci, but I think he retained his "hot headed" streak through both branches that he appeared in.

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As for the bolded-Logan had rough edges that were smoothed out? He’s always had a temper and that never changed. It was the very same temper that got him booted to Staten Island for a decade.? Same with Lennie-he was a tough, sarcastic NY cop. I don’t know what softening was done with him. With Fin over on SVU, agree.

Briscoe was definitely softened over time. They kept the sarcasm and the cynicism, but early in the run there was much more bitterness and meanness that disappeared later on. If you look at first appearance he was a loud mouthed jerk who could be rude and dismissive. They dropped that quickly and with good reason, but there was still a darker edge to his sarcasm, especially his remarks to beat cops, techs, etc. compared to later on when it was more teasing. Or his relationships with his partners - he got off to a bit of a rocky start with Logan, was openly dismissive of Curtis, and pretty much accepted Green from the get go. And they certainly toned down Lennie's smackdowns of Rey's moralizing much more than they did Rey's self-righteousness. And Logan kept his temper and his cockiness and his womanizing but it was reined in over time and he became a bit cuddlier and less aggressive. Until he pissed off Dick Wolf and they wanted a memorable send off that is...

[Picture It. Sicily]

I liked Fontana a lot, but I also loved him looking like a fool in that cold case child murder episode. That final scene when he went to the victim's father for forgiveness and he slammed the door in his face, awesome. I hate when the cops get tunnel vision on these shows and can't fathom that they might have gotten it wrong, destroying innocent and grieving people as they go. They did one on SVU where Olivia was so unwilling to believe she got the wrong guy sent away, she actually floated the theory that the guy broke out of prison, committed the same crime and then SNUCK BACK INTO JAIL to create doubt about his guilt.

[Raja]

On 10/15/2017 at 1:07 PM, WendyCR72 said:

 

I did appreciate the sort of meta aspect since Dennis Farina was a real Chicago cop before becoming an actor.

Not a cop a "Police Officer" rest in peace Officer Farina

[Raja]

Was it Fontana or someone else, perhaps another show who always corrected people who called him an officer and not a detective?

[KHenry14]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

Was it Fontana or someone else, perhaps another show who always corrected people who called him an officer and not a detective?

Lenny just did it in the beginning of "D-Girl" , the first part of the infamous trilogy

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I'm watching the trilogy now, I'm one of the few who actually enjoy these episodes, minus the Rey Curtis marriage crap. I liked how they could delve into the case deeper, and it had some great moments, such as those with Briscoe in LA, especially on the golf course, McCoy laying into the California judge and the closing lines between Schiff and McCoy were classic :

"Take the rest of the week off" 

"It's Friday Adam"

"So it is, see you on Monday" 

One of my favorite ending lines in L&O history. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Xeliou66

[Ailianna]

I thought it was "Take the rest of the week off."  Meaning that the rest of the week is already gone and worked, and the "time off" is in spirit only.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah it was, I just screwed it up, fixed it now. One of my favorite final lines L&O history, Schiff always had great one liners to end the episode, so much so that it became a trope known as the Adam Schiff One Liner, meaning a line at the end of the episode summing up the theme of the story

[farmerbud52]

I've seen Crimebusters a few times and am curious if there are other episodes that opened-end about guilt or innocence? I don't mean the trial verdicts because most not guilty ones like Denial and Standoff make it clear who did it.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah there are a few open ended ones, such as one that was just on on ION earlier today Reality Bites, that one yu aren't sure which suspect is guilty and no one is put away for the murder. Conspiracy from season 3 was open ended, it was revisited in a later episode but it was never explicitly clear who killed the black activist. There are a few others that I can think of as well, perhaps Panic from season 10 counts as it's suspected the daughter did it at the end but the husband goes to jail. I'll see if I can think of some more "open ended" episodes. 

[topanga]

Tonight I started watching my DVRd “Helpless”episode. But I had to turn it off because the wide-spread victim blaming is making me sick. Did Olivet go back to the Gyn trying to record him being inappropriate? Yes. But it’s still criminal that she got raped! She’s repeatedly being shat upon by the police, the DAs office, the defense attorney (although that’s to be expected).

I haven’t made it through half of the episode yet. Does it get better?

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

I haven’t made it through half of the episode yet. Does it get better

Yes, but you can't get un-raped.

[topanga]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but you can't get un-raped.

Unfortunately. Although according to some judges, the rapist should be able to forget about the whole thing. 

But I meant just the victim-blaming. Thanks

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

Tonight I started watching my DVRd “Helpless”episode. But I had to turn it off because the wide-spread victim blaming is making me sick. Did Olivet go back to the Gyn trying to record him being inappropriate? Yes. But it’s still criminal that she got raped! She’s repeatedly being shat upon by the police, the DAs office, the defense attorney (although that’s to be expected).

I haven’t made it through half of the episode yet. Does it get better?

I don’t know-I thought that, other than Phil doubting Liz at first, that Stone and Robinette, AND Mike, believed her. I’ve LOATHED Melnick from this episode because of her contempt for Liz, the disrespect she showed her on the stand, and accused her of “buyer’s remorse” and referring to her rape as a “slap and tickle” or such bullshit.??????

But. The reason for the acquittal was because the rapist wasn’t her doctor-he was her patient’s doctor-who he had raped. And she felt guilty because she’d referred him to her based on his “good” reputation. And that her going to him instead of her own OBGYN, with a tape recorder, was construed as her doing it as a police agent.

2 minutes ago, topanga said:

Unfortunately. Although according to some judges, the rapist should be able to forget about the whole thing. 

But I meant just the victim-blaming. Thanks

Stone gets him but good after he’s acquitted for Liz’s rape. I don’t want to spoil what he and Paul say to him at the end.

This was the episode that convinced me Mike had a thing for Liz. ?❤️?

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t know-I thought that, other than Phil doubting Liz at first, that Stone and Robinette, AND Mike, believed her. I’ve LOATHED Melnick from this episode because of her contempt for Liz, the disrespect she showed her on the stand, and accused her of “buyer’s remorse” and referring to her rape as a “slap and tickle” or such bullshit.??????

But. The reason for the acquittal was because the rapist wasn’t her doctor-he was her patient’s doctor-who he had raped. And she felt guilty because she’d referred him to her based on his “good” reputation. And that her going to him instead of her own OBGYN, with a tape recorder, was construed as her doing it as a police agent.

Stone gets him but good after he’s acquitted for Liz’s rape. I don’t want to spoil what he and Paul say to him at the end.

This was the episode that convinced me Mike had a thing for Liz. ?❤️?

Yet another reason I hate Melnick. Such a horrible person. To say buyer's remorse to a rape victim? Another reason I enjoy watching her get shot in Open Season. Although I imagine it ending differently.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yet another reason I hate Melnick. Such a horrible person. To say buyer's remorse to a rape victim? Another reason I enjoy watching her get shot in Open Season. Although I imagine it ending differently.

Yeah, this was Melnick's first appearance. I CHEERED and CLAPPED at the look on her face when Paul set down the HIGH PILE of folders that included complaints from 50+ women the "GOOD" Doctor had either, "raped, molested or abused" I think I quoted that scene in the quotes thread!

ETA: found it!

Stone: "I learned the hard way, for a good deal to be good, there has to be equal consideration, and there is no way you can cough up enough consideration to justify a deal for him."

Melnick: "Why?"

Robinette (retrieves a huge stack of folders): "54 women you either, raped, molested or abused."

Stone: "In the future, Sir, stay off the evening news."

Melnick, who looks like she just swallowed a grapefruit and swallowed crow: "Okay Ben, what do you want?"

Stone: "In a perfect world, I'd like to see your client locked in a room for a week with these women.  But I'll settle for seeing him spend the rest of his life in jail."

Edited November 9, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[merylinkid]

Melnick went a little overboard in her zealous representation of her clients.     Yes, she was cruel to a rape victim.    She was representing the defendant.

 

But the WORST was when she violated a direct court order and allowed a terrorist to use her to communicate with his followers.   because she felt the order was wrong.     I believe she was actually charged with aiding terrorism or some such thing.   You still have to follow the rules when representing your clients.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

Melnick went a little overboard in her zealous representation of her clients.     Yes, she was cruel to a rape victim.    She was representing the defendant

Oh I understand this. I do. But it was what she said about Liz when she was talking to Stone in his office, when discussing the charges/case, that I also found loathsome.  I've watched enough of this show and its spinoffs, to know know that defense counsel may not always like their clients; they even find said clients disgusting or guilty, but they will still defend them. Melnick, I think knew her client wasn't this poor innocent lamb; I just didn't care for her trash talking Liz, as if Liz had tempted her client, or that they probably were having an affair that went sour. As I'm sure that she was aware of who Liz was and that she testified on behalf of the State.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Melnick went a little overboard in her zealous representation of her clients.     Yes, she was cruel to a rape victim.    She was representing the defendant.

 

But the WORST was when she violated a direct court order and allowed a terrorist to use her to communicate with his followers.   because she felt the order was wrong.     I believe she was actually charged with aiding terrorism or some such thing.   You still have to follow the rules when representing your clients.

I don't mind lawyers defending their clients. That's their job. Some of the lawyers were really good. I really liked Gold and the older female lawyer who was doing a good job kicking Ben's butt until she learned her client was lying and refused to put her on the stand. Melnick always put her own agenda above her client. She never bothered to see if her agenda actually lined up with her client and case. I do agree her violating a direct order was the worse. It fits with how she operated. Didn't care about how dangerous her client was. Didn't stop to think maybe the judge was correct or at least find out enough about her client to realize violating the order was a really bad idea. Or what would happen to her for violating the order. Nope, she just decided it was wrong without bothering to check any facts. Jack was way too nice and easy on her when he went to tell her of the murder and she'd be arrested the next day. She broke a direct court order that lead to a man's murder and still wouldn't admit she did anything wrong. Luckily the DA was listening or she would have passed on information that would have gotten another murder. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by andromeda331
spelling, lots of spelling mistakes

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yeah, this was Melnick's first appearance. I CHEERED and CLAPPED at the look on her face when Paul set down the HIGH PILE of folders that included complaints from 50+ women the "GOOD" Doctor had either, "raped, molested or abused" I think I quoted that scene in the quotes thread!

ETA: found it!

Stone: "I learned the hard way, for a good deal to be good, there has to be equal consideration, and there is no way you can cough up enough consideration to justify a deal for him."

Melnick: "Why?"

Robinette (retrieves a huge stack of folders): "54 women you either, raped, molested or abused."

Stone: "In the future, Sir, stay off the evening news."

Melnick, who looks like she just swallowed a grapefruit and swallowed crow: "Okay Ben, what do you want?"

Stone: "In a perfect world, I'd like to see your client locked in a room for a week with these women.  But I'll settle for seeing him spend the rest of his life in jail."

I love that scene. It was so awesome. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't mind lawyers defending their clients. That's their job. Some of the lawyers were really good. I really liked Gold and the older female lawyer who was doing a good job kicking Ben's but until she learned her client was laying and refused to put her on the stand. Melnick always put her own agenda above her client. Had she never bothered to see if her agenda actually lined up with her client and case. I do agree her violating a direct order was the worse. It fits with how she operated. Didn't care about how dangerous her client was. Didn't stop to think maybe the judge was correct or at least find out enough about her client to realize violating the order was a really bad idea. Or what would happen to her for violating the order. Nope, she just decided it was wrong without bothering to check any facts. Jack was way too nice and easy on her when he went to tell her of the murder and she'd be arrested the next day. She broke a direct court order that lead to a man's murder and still wouldn't admit she did anything wrong. Luckily the DA was listening or she would have passed on information that would have gotten another murder. 

Gold was another I loathed. I really loved Patty LuPone's Ruth Miller. Shambala Green.  The one who refused to put her client on the stand, was Lanie Stieglitz, played by the late, awesome Elaine Stritch.

[andromeda331]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Gold was another I loathed. I really loved Patty LuPone's Ruth Miller. Shambala Green.  The one who refused to put her client on the stand, was Lanie Stieglitz, played by the late, awesome Elaine Stritch.

That was her name! Lanie. She was so awesome I wish she had been on more. I love her explaining to her client that she wasn't going to put her on the stand or make a closing argument. Pointing out it would be unethical and illegal to do so. Ruth Miller was really good and so was Shambala Green.

Edited November 9, 2017 by andromeda331

[Spartan Girl]

On November 9, 2017 at 4:35 PM, andromeda331 said:

I don't mind lawyers defending their clients. That's their job. Some of the lawyers were really good. I really liked Gold and the older female lawyer who was doing a good job kicking Ben's butt until she learned her client was lying and refused to put her on the stand. Melnick always put her own agenda above her client. She never bothered to see if her agenda actually lined up with her client and case. I do agree her violating a direct order was the worse. It fits with how she operated. Didn't care about how dangerous her client was. Didn't stop to think maybe the judge was correct or at least find out enough about her client to realize violating the order was a really bad idea. Or what would happen to her for violating the order. Nope, she just decided it was wrong without bothering to check any facts. Jack was way too nice and easy on her when he went to tell her of the murder and she'd be arrested the next day. She broke a direct court order that lead to a man's murder and still wouldn't admit she did anything wrong. Luckily the DA was listening or she would have passed on information that would have gotten another murder. 

And the worst part that whole experience didn't teach her a damn thing, not even when it led to her getting shot. She only showed about one minute of remorse for indirectly getting a guy killed, but then went right back to saying it was the principal that mattered and she wouldn't break the attorney client privilege no matter how much she now loathed her client for tricking her. A little late to start clutching at your pearls now, bitch.

Reminded me of that asshole lawyer in "Bodies", who hid behind the privilege and wouldn't give up the location of all the murdered victims of his client. Too bad nobody shot him.

[Xeliou66]

I've always hated Danielle Melnick as well, she was arrogant, almost always represented despicable people, and just behaved like a smug bitch. Probably my least favorite lawyer on the show and I never understood why McCoy liked her. 

I liked Rothenberg better than her, because eveyrone knew Rothenberg was sleazy and he didn't even deny it, whereas Melnick was equally self serving and sleazy yet no one ever called her on it. 

I didn't like Lanie Stieglitz at all either, she was a self righteous bitch. And while it was the morally right decision not to defend someone you thought was lying like Stieglitz did in Point of View, her client should've just fired her since she wouldn't put on a defense, she should've just gotten a new attorney, or she could've let it go to verdict, get convicted and then get a new attorney and file an appeal and she would definitely get a retrial because of ineffective assistance of counsel. I thought it was weak of her to give up so easily, she had 2 options that she could use and still have a chance at walking free, instead she admitted guilt and reached a deal, it allowed for the plot of the episode to be concluded but I thought it was weak of her to fold so easily. 

[Ailianna]

On 11/11/2017 at 5:28 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I didn't like Lanie Stieglitz at all either, she was a self righteous bitch. And while it was the morally right decision not to defend someone you thought was lying like Stieglitz did in Point of View, her client should've just fired her since she wouldn't put on a defense, she should've just gotten a new attorney, or she could've let it go to verdict, get convicted and then get a new attorney and file an appeal and she would definitely get a retrial because of ineffective assistance of counsel. I thought it was weak of her to give up so easily, she had 2 options that she could use and still have a chance at walking free, instead she admitted guilt and reached a deal, it allowed for the plot of the episode to be concluded but I thought it was weak of her to fold so easily. 

Actually, in a rule observed more in the breach than the practice, lawyers are ethically bound not to present what they believe to be perjured testimony, nor to argue facts they know to be false in their closing.  A new attorney should have had the same ethical objections.  The answer in a criminal case, where the defendant wishes to testify to facts the attorney knows to be materially false (and therefore perjury) is to allow the defendant to make a narrative statement without asking any questions (so the lawyer isn't suborning perjury), and if any closing is made at all, no mention can be made of defendant's testimony--so that looks bad to the jury so mostly they don't make a closing statement.  Which the judge will have been telling the jury from jury selection they don't have to do.  In this case, she actually did the right thing.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 11/9/2017 at 4:35 PM, andromeda331 said:

I don't mind lawyers defending their clients. That's their job. Some of the lawyers were really good.

Jamie tells Jack at some point that she had a case where her client got a boner because the prosecutor was describing the crimes he'd committed, and she threw a jacket over his lap so no one would see it. Which makes it even stranger both times when she returns for an episode on the side of the defense.

[merylinkid]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Jamie tells Jack at some point that she had a case where her client got a boner because the prosecutor was describing the crimes he'd committed, and she threw a jacket over his lap so no one would see it. Which makes it even stranger both times when she returns for an episode on the side of the defense.

Actually she was talking about her ex-husband Neil.   He got so excited winning in court, she had to throw a coat over him.    He got off on crushing the other side.

When Jamie did defense work after she left the DA it was for "causes."    It wasn't just "this guy has money and I love to win."

 

Although how did a disciplined attorney, rather late in her career no less, get to be a judge?   Usually you have to be squeaky clean or have made some small mistake far in the past.   She broke attorney-client privilege and got her client arrested for murder.

Edited November 14, 2017 by merylinkid

[Desperately Random]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Actually she was talking about her ex-husband Neil.   He got so excited winning in court, she had to throw a coat over him.    He got off on crushing the other side.

No, Colbalt  Stargazer was correct . It was a client. It was in the first episode of season 7, Causa Mortis. This is what Jamie said about the client:

Jamie: Neal and I had a client. James Carper. A sex murderer. While the D. A. Is describing the crime to the jury, Carper gets an erection Barnum and Bailey could have pitched a tent on. I threw my coat over his lap so the jury wouldn't notice.

Jack: I remember the case. Carper walked.

Jamie: Yeah, even though his DNA was all over the crime scene. Neal built his practice on the infallibility of DNA evidence. Then he met Carper's trust fund. New tune, DNA is unreliable. The jury acquits. And three months later, Carper killed again. I believe in monsters and things that go bump in the night, Jack. May they rot in hell along with their attorneys.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Desperately Random

[merylinkid]

You are right.   I always thought it was her sleazebag ex husband she was talking about.   Because he is the type who gets off on the fight.