Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Thats why I threw practically in there. Laurel fans/Olicity Fans/Felicity fans/Thea fans/comic fans to an extent. 

I'm not even sure who that leaves.  The noromance fans (since neither Billy or Susan really count) I guess and the ones watching just for action stuff?  

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I came across this writeup a few years ago. I think it's interesting given the 30% drop in year-to-year ratings as well as the lack of fandom support in S5 (whether it's Okicity shippers, KC/LL fans, Felicity/EBR fans, etc

 https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/versusthefans.com/2013/04/24/fandom-vs-general-audiences/amp/

I have no idea what turned general viewers off but, it certainly seems that something has impacted both viewer types.

I think frequently, the fanboys and girls are the canaries in the coal mine.  Sure, sometimes they (we) make a lot of noise over smaller stuff but when that part of the fanbase is unhappy over a long period of time, it's pretty common that soon the general viewers also will start to get turned off by what's going on.

I think the general viewer might just not react as swiftly, but when they go, they are gone.  I'm thinking of Castle and how they blew up the main relationship at the start of the season and immediately the shippers were pissed but a lot of them either stayed to the bitter end or came back when things were fixed, but it wasn't that long into the season before the general viewers (in this case I'm using my mother as an example) started noticing that the stories and the way the show was written was just off and pretty soon my mother (who prides herself on never getting invested in tv or movies - she thinks any kind of serial television is wrong) started complaining to me about the forced drama that didn't make sense and was ruining the dynamic of the show.  She dropped it halfway through that season and never looked back.   Audiences are never as dumb or as sheep like as show runners want them to be.    

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm not suprised general audience doesn't seem to like this season anymore than the fandom does, at least looking at the ratings. I mean in 5A especially they took everything someone might like about the show and sidelined it for new characters and dynamics. So whatever the reason for someone watching it basically wasn't there anymore or got much less focus. I'll never get them thinking a show in season 5 that has it's established audience needs a reboot like what they tried to do. 

Exactly!  The audience they had in season four stuck around for all of season three and must have liked the start of season four as well (since they were still there).  Clearly there was a lot of unhappiness to go around in the back half of season four, but this idea of going back and basically redoing the team and crippling (hopefully temporarily) the dynamics between the remaining original characters makes no sense to me. Arrow is not the show the show runners originally intended to do, but you can't in the middle of the fifth season reboot it to match more closely with original intentions, not without giving the finger to all the fans that actually had been watching your show BECAUSE it was not the show they originally intended.  

Edited February 10, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

16 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Does anyone know the raw (unrounded) numbers of the demi? 

512 ratings (in unrounded numbers) were 0.60 demo and 1.608 viewers...
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-tv-show-cw-season-five-ratings/

[MaisyDaisy]

17 minutes ago, tv echo said:

512 ratings (in unrounded numbers) were 0.60 demo and 1.608 viewers...
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-tv-show-cw-season-five-ratings/

Oh thanks do much for that! That's an awesome link.

[Morrigan2575]

They are pulling some very weak 0.6 numbers. Waiting for it to eventually hit 0.5 (post Feb Sweeps break?). How will it end? Will it drop as low as a 0.4 rating?

[Primal Slayer]

That Friday time slot will need filling pretty soon. Then it would be the perfect time to introduce a new DC show in the Wednesday time slot.

[Morrigan2575]

Unless SPN drops drastically in the Finals, Arrow will take 5th place this week as SPN scored 0.6 and 1.714 million.

I'm happy for SPN but, I feel bad for Arrow. I wonder what happens when LoT ends and I-Zombie returns?

Edited February 10, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

lol, posted at the same time :)

Edited February 10, 2017 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

On the plus side, I think a .5 might be enough to cause them to rethink permanently ditching O/F (if they were thinking about that).

[Chaser]

It's a weird mix of being glad the season isn't being rewarded for ignoring my favorite aspects and the DC interference and feeling bad for them because I think my favorite aspects are still there and will come back. It's confusing.

If the downtrend continues, I wonder if they will completely switch their marketing. Back to the original characters/relationships.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Chaser

[ladylaw99]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

On the plus side, I think a .5 might be enough to cause them to rethink permanently ditching O/F (if they were thinking about that).

I don't know, these Ep's are pretty stubborn and way too sensitive when criticized.  I hope it makes them re-evaluate the show but I just don't know if they really understand the problems.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I wonder what happens when LoT ends and I-Zombie returns?

Hard to say.  iZombie averaged a 0.53 for its second season.  My feeling is that Arrow will beat iZombie.  iZombie will have been off the air for almost a full year, and shows generally do tend to decrease somewhat year to year anyway.  But that's not guaranteed by any means - it just depends on how much Arrow falls this spring.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

I don't know, these Ep's are pretty stubborn and way too sensitive when criticized.  I hope it makes them re-evaluate the show but I just don't know if they really understand the problems.

I was trying to be mildly optimistic!

I definitely don't think .6s will do it.

[ladylaw99]

9 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I was trying to be mildly optimistic!

I definitely don't think .6s will do it.

I am trying to be optimistic too.  I think the show can be good again but these Ep's need to realize the problems in order to fix them.  I am not sure what it will take to be honest.  i would have thought the huge decline in ratings would have done it but alas I was wrong.

[tangerine95]

I'm mostly glad the ratings are what they are because imo it's totally deserved this season and hopefully it will force them to actually think about what they're doing. I kinda think the fact that the ratings consistently stayed stable or would often rise made them pretty arrogant and sure that they could push almost anything and people would watch. I mean people were complaining about season 3 and 4 but the ratings stayed good and MG and SA especially loved to point that out. 

Also the ratings being what they are might insure that they don't go over 7 seasons which I think is more than enough. I can't even imagine what kind of crap they might come up with if they had to go beyond that. 

I do think it's sad that they made this mess because I don't think even when/if they fix things, there's  much chance they'll go above 0. 7 or maybe even 0. 6 apart from the crossovers. And imo they could have kept up steady ratings and a much lower decline if they didn't decide on the direction the show took in 4B and season 5. 

[Morrigan2575]

The show already got renewed for S6 and CW can't launch a new show that does better. Riverdale, No Tomorrow and Frequency were/are all below Arrow. Arrow will get a S7 and probably a S8 (in some form) as well. 

Arrow won't go 10+ Seasons but it's going to go to at least 150 episodes which is nothing to sneeze at.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[thegirlsleuth]

33 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It's a weird mix of being glad the season isn't being rewarded for ignoring my favorite aspects and the DC interference and feeling bad for them because I think my favorite aspects are still there and will come back. It's confusing.

If the downtrend continues, I wonder if they will completely switch their marketing. Back to the original characters/relationships.

I think they've already switched up their marketing to include Felicity, and I think they are dropping small things that could be construed as Olicity moments back into the show, but I don't think they've changed the over-all trajectory of the season. 

I do wonder if they connected the drop in ratings from 4B to the breakup or if they put it all on straying to far from their comic tv roots. 

[EmilyBettFan]

They stayed away from comic aspects a long time ago. They made a point to say that a lot during interviews also.

One fact remains is that after 4x15 they lost 600k viewers and what was the biggest aspect of that episode? Oliver and Felicity break up IMO and it seems a lot of other people's opinion to.

[dtissagirl]

15 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

One fact remains is that after 4x15 they lost 600k viewers and what was the biggest aspect of that episode? Oliver and Felicity break up IMO and it seems a lot of other people's opinion to.

It was a conjunction of factors. The biggest aspect was that there was a month long hiatus between 415 and 416. That was made worse by leaving the show on a such mega downer after a garbage fire storyline everyone hated. You want people to come back to your show after a hiatus, you give them something to look forward to, or a super shocking cliffhanger, you don't give them a downer breakup followed by a loltastic embarrassing miracle walk. 

[Chaser]

In terms of the drop and how I relate it to Olicity: I don't see the 4x15 drop as proof the casual audience wants Olicity together, but I do think it disproves that the casual audience doesn't.

lol I hope that makes sense.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Chaser

[LeighAn]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The show already got renewed for S6 and CW can't launch a new show that does better. Riverdale, No Tomorrow and Frequency were/are all below Arrow. Arrow will get a S7 and probably a S8 (in some form) as well. 

Arrow won't go 10+ Seasons but it's going to go to at least 150 episodes which is nothing to sneeze at.

Plus Arrow is part of a package deal with the rest of the DC shows. Of which makes Time Warner a lot of money, even if it's not making the CW a lot of advertising dollars on its own merits. So within the greater brand it's still a valuable commodity.

I'm curious about whether it'll get past  6 seasons. I think it will depend on how and if new shows next season can bring in better ratings and how low ratings go next season. I could see them testing Arrow out on another night first like they did with Vampire Diaries when it moved to Friday and using the excuse they used for TVD "we aren't trying to get rid of it. We are trying to make Friday's stronger" 

[kismet]

Aw shucks, Arrow didn't even get the Pewter Medal if ratings again this week. But hey at least the color ribbon is show appropriate. Maybe they're just really fixated on being GREEN this season.

Edited February 11, 2017 by kismet

[Pete Martell]

On 2/10/2017 at 0:26 AM, BkWurm1 said:

I think the general viewer might just not react as swiftly, but when they go, they are gone.  I'm thinking of Castle and how they blew up the main relationship at the start of the season and immediately the shippers were pissed but a lot of them either stayed to the bitter end or came back when things were fixed, but it wasn't that long into the season before the general viewers (in this case I'm using my mother as an example) started noticing that the stories and the way the show was written was just off and pretty soon my mother (who prides herself on never getting invested in tv or movies - she thinks any kind of serial television is wrong) started complaining to me about the forced drama that didn't make sense and was ruining the dynamic of the show.  She dropped it halfway through that season and never looked back.   Audiences are never as dumb or as sheep like as show runners want them to be.    

My parents were big fans of Castle and enjoyed it enough throughout its run, but by the time the last season was over they thought it had become so poor that they weren't really that bothered it was canceled. The above was their main complaint (along with most of the recurring cast being dispatched of). 

They are also big fans of Arrow, but have about 7 or 8 episodes stockpiled on their DVR and are in no great hurry to watch. I've accidentally almost told them the midseason cliffhanger about 3 times...I'm starting to forget it through so I'll probably not remember it by the time they actually see it.

[statsgirl]

Castle suffered from a revolving door of show-runners once the creator, Andrew Marlowe, left.  But it does share something in common with Arrow in that the new guys in the last season decided that they were going back to the early seasons and the UST between Castle and Beckett in spite of them having been together for 3 + years and married to boot.  It was far less effective than Arrow's "back to basics" which at least pleased some comic book fans because no one liked it on Castle, and very few people liked the new female character they brought on.

Both shows seem to have suffered from the same misconception, which is that what worked in season 1 will  work equally well in season 5 (Arrow) or season 8 (Castle).  It doesn't even seem to work on NCIS any more 

[kismet]

Maybe because this season's cliffhanger was less cliffhanger and more just reaching for a high shelf without a step stool.

[Morrigan2575]

Ratings held, SPN took 4th place and Arrow ended up in 5th

[theOAfc]

19 hours ago, Chaser said:

It's a weird mix of being glad the season isn't being rewarded for ignoring my favorite aspects and the DC interference and feeling bad for them because I think my favorite aspects are still there and will come back. It's confusing.

If the downtrend continues, I wonder if they will completely switch their marketing. Back to the original characters/relationships.

This is me.

As for the marketing,the arrow official account is already back to tweeting about Felicity/Olicity. Funny.

[theOAfc]

20 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The show already got renewed for S6 and CW can't launch a new show that does better. Riverdale, No Tomorrow and Frequency were/are all below Arrow. Arrow will get a S7 and probably a S8 (in some form) as well. 

Arrow won't go 10+ Seasons but it's going to go to at least 150 episodes which is nothing to sneeze at.

I think by season 7,at this rate, Arrow will hit the weekly 0.4 which might lead to it not getting renewed for season 8, if in the next two years cw brings in new shows that do somehow well. Its also that there isnt much internet buzz about the show anymore,unlike with SPN that mainly survived due to the huge internet buzz and loyal fanbase. I honestly feel like arrow almost lost that by alienating the whole fanbase with 4b AND 5A.

 

The show clearly started struggling after 4x15 which left viewers either apathetic or unhappy to the point that they decided to not tune in. I dont think general fans care much about whether or not olicity is together,i think they were just irritated with how the show once again forced contrived drama where it didnt belong. 4b started steady with the viewers still tuning in(after the mid season finale) to watch so olicity being together was not an issue. The issue was that towards the end of the season,it became more and more clear that no storyline would pay off and too much focus was given to things that should never get focus(Donna and Lance,the baby mama drama). Laurels badly executed and anti climatic death ,while drew some internet buzz and short period reaction,eventually also harmed the ratings because after such a big death the show didnt really pick up(the storyline never paid off) instead it fell flat and that on top of the characters being all over the place made 4b the weakest number of episodes of the show so far.

I feel like this season,with the addition of new characters,at the expense of regulars, and the over glorification of masks harmed the show (and ratings) even more,because the viewers simply dont connect to the new characters,mainly because of how forced they are introduced and how much focus they get(its crazy really to create a whole new team in the 5th season and to push for new characters so much). The fact that after the mid season finale the show returned with a clear 0.1 drop in demo,shows that it was pretty easy for many of those who stayed during 5a to tune out(the show had mainly 0.7 in demo for 5a while it hasnt reached 0.7 ever since it came back for 5b). This shows that viewers are still apathetic and the show fails to keep them invested,unlike with previous seasons.

I personally also think that even if they get olicity back together and focus on a small team by giving most screentime to the core cast,viewers will keep tuning out mainly because the show has already hurt so many aspects of it that viewers dont seem to care, they no longer invest. The worst move the show did was to listen to a bunch of bitter stans and erase or retcon the importance of certain charactrers and dynamics in its effort to lure these stans back into watching. Instead the show played itself and lost even more fans and viewers. I guess they made their own bed after all.

Edited February 11, 2017 by theOAfc

[dtissagirl]

L+7 numbers for 510:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/week-19-broadcast-live-7-ratings-jan-23-29-2017/

 

Live + SD: 0.6/1.682k 

L+7: 1.1/2.815k

[kismet]

How shows earn an additional season on the CW is complicated equation. Some get it on merit. Some get it on critical praise. Some get it on fan devotion. Some get it on economic reasons. But I do think that if the show gets a 7th season, with ratings like they are putting out now it is more likely a courtesy renewal because of its place as originator of the Flarrowverse. It will not be on the merit of s5, which is under performing. The CW has had trouble launching new shows in the last 2 seasons, which if that trend continues Arrow may be given another renewal because of that.

Ultimately though I think it's too early to figure out what the future of Arrow is based upon ratings. It is clearly not doing as well as it once did. We know it has s6 and hopefully they can regroup. But Arrow has never been known to do itself any favors. They made bold strokes in s1 & s2, but since then they have been painting way in between the lines with crayon. It may be a good thing for the show that the ratings drop or it may just give them the freedom to do what they always wanted to. I don't know what there plan is, but I hope it's better than the last 3 plans they had to improve the show.

[Velocity23]

16 minutes ago, kismet said:

How shows earn an additional season on the CW is complicated equation. Some get it on merit. Some get it on critical praise. Some get it on fan devotion. Some get it on economic reasons. But I do think that if the show gets a 7th season, with ratings like they are putting out now it is more likely a courtesy renewal because of its place as originator of the Flarrowverse. It will not be on the merit of s5, which is under performing. The CW has had trouble launching new shows in the last 2 seasons, which if that trend continues Arrow may be given another renewal because of that.

Ultimately though I think it's too early to figure out what the future of Arrow is based upon ratings. It is clearly not doing as well as it once did. We know it has s6 and hopefully they can regroup. But Arrow has never been known to do itself any favors. They made bold strokes in s1 & s2, but since then they have been painting way in between the lines with crayon. It may be a good thing for the show that the ratings drop or it may just give them the freedom to do what they always wanted to. I don't know what there plan is, but I hope it's better than the last 3 plans they had to improve the show.

I would always compare it to TVD. TVD finished s5 as the number 1 show on the CW. 

 

 

Then in next season TVD slipped to 4th place the season the Flash was introduced. 

And finally in the 7th season the ratings for TVD went low enough that it was pushed to Friday during midseason. 

 

So honestly i expect the same treatment for Arrow. They will start s6 on their usual slot. or pushed for 9 PM since their 9 PM dramas are a mess. And then they gonna announced s7 as their last.  Probably during comic con. 

For me Flash will follow the trajectory of TVD. Especially since i feel there is an oversaturation of the comic book genre on TV and CW right now. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by Velocity23

[MaisyDaisy]

Season 5 of TVD, writers killed off a popular character (Katherine) in a really misogynistic way- she was the only character of all the evil characters killed that got sucked to hell.

They had sent off the Originals to a spin off, which they hyped crossovers and the shows to be connected, only to turn around and hype then end the shows second most popular ship (Klaroline).

The writers started a campaign on social media of hating on fans- all fans telling them to stop watching if they didn't like it, insinuations they were stupid/vapid/dumb etc, I have never seen anything like it.

the writers stoped paying attention/respecting their own canon/mythology, and the show started to retcon previous canon. It was plot hole after plot hole.

The writers got flack for the fact that female characters seemed to be plot devices for the male characters, every arc they got was turned into manpain. Fans actually had a WW twitter trend asking for Caroline to have a non-romantic plot line.

Season five of TVD fans were still holding on waiting for what writers were promising.

The combination of killing a female character in a mysoginistic way, ending (writers always leaving the door open with 'for now' 'at the moment') popular ships, retconing canon, pushing fans away on social media, and writing female characters to orbit the male characters killed TVD. 

Sounds familiar huh?

if Arrow keeps up it's season 5 changes, I too see it heading for Friday, where CW shows go to die, perhaps in the second half of next season when they are pulling 0.4s.

[Velocity23]

Who says Flash won't kill off a popular female character. Or even one of the main characters. But will the comic fans care about the killing of a female character if there is a replacment around the corner. Flash is very male skewing show.

I would also say Flash is falling faster than TVD did. So i wouldn't exclude a significant drop around s4 or 5. 

[Mellowyellow]

25 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

The writers started a campaign on social media of hating on fans- all fans telling them to stop watching if they didn't like it, insinuations they were stupid/vapid/dumb etc, I have never seen anything like it.

I am surprised the Arrow bunch haven't been out to insult the shippers for a while! They seem to do it when there is a bad episode coming up (505). I'm fully expecting them to come out and hurl more insults at Olicity shippers  if Oliver and Tinah ever get paired up. I'll take it as a good sign for Olicity if they go for the rest of the season without insulting us. 

[MaisyDaisy]

18 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I am surprised the Arrow bunch haven't been out to insult the shippers for a while! They seem to do it when there is a bad episode coming up (505). I'm fully expecting them to come out and hurl more insults at Olicity shippers  if Oliver and Tinah ever get paired up. I'll take it as a good sign for Olicity if they go for the rest of the season without insulting us. 

TVD/TO would hate on fans whenever they had written something they knew would be unpopular, so the attention was taken away from whatever was contentious.

TO got so little social media buzz- it's ships were getting literally 7-8% the twitter traffic of TVDs that the actors started liking hate tweets prior to media commitments and character centric episodes for the buzz. An actress intentionally went to the tumblr anti tags and tweeted that 'after a not good day, tumblr made me cry' which got her a pity trend- coincidentally on the very night a character centric episode for her aired.

Writers, actors, EPs etc sometimes do it because they are arseholes, but often because it gets them social media traffic.

But if you have to incite people into talking about you, it's probably a sign things aren't going too well.

Look at EBR, she doesn't need to be even active on social media to be a fan fave.

Edited February 11, 2017 by MaisyDaisy

[kismet]

I think there are some potential comparisons to TVD, but I think it's too early to project with confidence what will happen to Arrow after s6. I will say though that they are not headed in the right direction.

[Mellowyellow]

@MaisyDaisy That is all fascinating! I watched TVD and TO up until this current season (might watch TO if it ever comes back) and didn't realise there was so much drama!!!!

So when are you guys predicting Arrow will hit 0.5? This season? Haha we should have a betting pool for which ep! 

[Velocity23]

CW is desperately gonna look for their new next big hit.

Push hard to get LOT and Supergirl to reach 4 seasons.

Since Arrow will most likely reach  a 0.5 this season i think they will slowly set up a departure for the show. Also expect the Flash to hit a 0.8 this season. 

[MaisyDaisy]

It just surprises me that the writers aren't poking their heads out the window, looking around seeing what's going on in the world, taking note of how thirsty people are for social conscience in particular female representation. Sitting back, reflecting on their ratings, on how they have writen/treated/treating female characters lately on the show, and thinking upon what the vocal crowd they tried to appease this season actually has brought to the table (not ratings that's for sure).

My predictions;

WD centric, Susan and Oliver 'all in', Dinah connecting with Digg? I think we will see a 0.5 within the next 4-6 episodes. If they head in a Dinah/Oliver direction I think we will get 0.46 type numbers, still a 0.5, but only just.

If they don't end with Olicity, or hype it over the end if season break, I think we would come back in season 6 with 0.5, manage a couple 0.6, but see lots of 0.4s in the second half of the season.

[dtissagirl]

4 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

It just surprises me that the writers aren't poking their heads out the window, looking around seeing what's going on in the world, taking note of how thirsty people are for social conscience in particular female representation. Sitting back, reflecting on their ratings, on how they have writen/treated/treating female characters lately on the show, and thinking upon what the vocal crowd they tried to appease this season actually has brought to the table (not ratings that's for sure).

They'll never go for social conscience when Guggenheim is on Twitter posting about how "PC culture" is to blame for what's going on in the world. He totally lacks the tools to write better representation.

[way2interested]

Just now, MaisyDaisy said:

I just don't get it from a business sense. They are selling us a product 'Arrow', basic supply and demand rules inform us that to be successful they need to ensure their product meets the wants of the market (audience), they are selling 'B' when the market wants 'A'.

The whole 'Make Arrow Great Again' is confusing. They reacted to a vocal minority, one that had a history of hate towards both the writers and other fans. That comic faction won, the writing/direction changed, however they have all the talk but not the numbers- they wouldn't win a popular vote, thus the ratings.

The business model isn't always that clear. It isn't as direct as "customers want x, so they should give x if they want to be successful." Rather, a lot of the times it ends up being "customer wants x, seller sells y, seller convinces customers that they actually want y instead of x, customers then want and get y." It even works in this case for s5. People don't want new characters, writers try to convince audience to like new characters, thus audience decides to like new characters instead. Problem is this didn't really work (as what happens to businesses often). 

It could be about reacting/trying to catch a vocal minority, but it could also be about trying to work around the restrictions and regulations that they have (a.k.a. being forced to add new characters, having to keep the main couple apart, trying to fix things that they/cast/crew may not have liked about s4 unrelated to what fans think, trying to create something that network bosses like, trying to create something they like, etc.) while toeing a marketing line of "back to basics" that just from a marketing standard didn't work out for them ratings-wise. 

[Morrigan2575]

From what I heard, the word going around TCAs was that the CW was hoping to get 10 seasons out of Flash, 5 seasons out of LoT, 7 seasons out of Arrow and Supergirl was a question mark. Supergirl is expensive in part because of the CBS contract the actors have. However, Supergirl does well as far as merchandizing so it's possible that the WB will subsidize the show to keep it on the air (they did that for the last 2-3 seasons of Smallville)

I think Arrow will probably get something in the S8 range, perhaps a shortened season used to kick off a replacement show. The WB makes a ton of money off of Arrow, it's the most profitable of the 4 shows (due to lower budget).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

20 seasons of The Flash? 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Chaser said:

20 seasons of The Flash? 

I think that was probably supposed to be 10, haha.

[Chaser]

Lol I was like Good Lord how many pep talks!?

[Morrigan2575]

No sorry that was a typo, I corrected, 10 seasons of The Flash

[Proteus]

So the shows future rests on Olicity being reunited?

[kismet]

11 minutes ago, Proteus said:

So the shows future rests on Olicity being reunited?

I think the show's future depends on writing better stories, focusing back on core characters and core relationships. I think moving it back to OTA with TQ & QL providing supportive and compelling stories would be a good start. Fully vetting which new newbies work and figuring out how they can be an interesting and vital part of the show - or ditching them in an effective manner. I think reuniting O/F would not hurt the show. But this new back to basics vibe they have going on is not working on any level.

I also believe the show needs to go back and fully examine what people's criticisms were post s3 & s4. Because whatever they heard, or whatever they focused on to improve did not work. A small group of people may be raving about s5. But the ratings are down, fans have disenagaged and the general audience is starting their departure.

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

So the shows future rests on Olicity being reunited?

Yes.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

So the shows future rests on Olicity being reunited?

I think the show's future rests on remembering the relationships they spent 4 years developing and Olicity is a big part of that. 

[AyChihuahua]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think the show's future rests on remembering the relationships they spent 4 years developing and Olicity is a big part of that. 

I would personally deeply appreciate it if they'd never again make Oliver a robotic weirdo moron, too.