Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

5.15, "King Shark vs. Grodd" promo:

Cisco's in this one! The last time that they had two CGI characters in the A-plot, it was lame. So I'm setting my expectations accordingly.

I really hope that this is the episode where we get the reveal of Nora working with Eobard. It's been drawn out too long already, and they did show that Sherlogue made progress with translating the time language, so let's get on with it.

[rogvortex58]

CGI villains just never work.

[SimoneS]

I love both Grodd and King Shark so I am looking forward to episode 15. Not sure why they are fighting each other, maybe they are fighting over who gets to kill Barry. I saw Cisco on the pier with Barry so that is cool. I remain hopeful that Carlos isn't leaving, but as the saying goes, I am preparing for the worse.

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I really hope that this is the episode where we get the reveal of Nora working with Eobard. It's been drawn out too long already, and they did show that Sherlogue made progress with translating the time language, so let's get on with it.

That would be nice, especially since we are only getting 22 episodes. However, I wonder if we have two or three more episodes to go before the truth is revealed. If only because I think that Sherloque is going to want to have proof before he outs Nora. I think on some level both Barry and Iris know something is off with Nora, especially Barry after she used the Reverse Flash as her defense, but they might not believe Sherloque's accusations initially and Nora will never admit the truth unless cornered. I would like it if a suspicious Barry follows her to future catches her with Thawne. 

[cambridgeguy]

Another article with speculation about CV leaving

Grain of salt and all that but it seems almost identical to Jeremy Jordan's situation on Supergirl.  I'd say Cisco is more important to The Flash than Winn was to Supergirl (the shows), but replacing the tech skills aspect is easy enough - just bring in another Wells.  As for Cisco's personality - well, they could always make Ralph goofier and/or incorporate some of that into the new Wells too.

[Featherhat]

I don't see why Iris can't be pregnant this season just because Felicity is. The shows have parallel storylines all the time including adult daughters in/from the future and weddings. 

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I don't see why Iris can't be pregnant this season just because Felicity is. The shows have parallel storylines all the time including adult daughters in/from the future and weddings. 

I suppose it is possible although I would not be a happy camper if it did, especially if it was timed for Iris to give birth during one of the crossovers.

[ruby24]

Realistically speaking, if Felicity's pregnant now and say, 4-6 weeks along, then she should be giving birth in September. Or maybe beginning of October, for the premiere. 

To give birth in the beginning of December, you'd have to get pregnant in early March. And most people don't find out until they're at least 4 weeks or so, sometimes longer, so if Iris were to find out in early May that she was pregnant, that times itself out for a crossover birth much better than Felicity's being pregnant now.

Of course, I don't know if they're just going to ignore all those details.

[BeautifulFlower]

8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I don't see why Iris can't be pregnant this season just because Felicity is. The shows have parallel storylines all the time including adult daughters in/from the future and weddings. 

I'm sorry, but that's not a parallel.

Nora appeared in 4x08. Grant said he knew about Nora since the beginning of season 4. 

Todd revealed in an interview that the producers told them to bring in their child from the future. The writers room for season 4 opened in May 2017, which means Todd was probably told in May or before they started storyboarding season 4. AJK, before he was fired, knew about it too. Both him and Guggie were responsible for the crossover that year. So Guggie knew what was happening.

Flash forward to May 2018. New article came out after the finale talking about Nora. They talked about Nora at comic con.

TL;DR, Arrow copied. Nora was planned since 2017. Now, Arrow could've kept the future storyline, but they didn't need to include OF's child. Especially since many news outlets talked about how season 5 of The Flash was going to be about WA future daughter. I'm sorry, but that's copying in my eyes. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Todd revealed in an interview that the producers told them to bring in their child from the future.

I was about to mention this. It is easy to forget that Helbing has limited say in the major story arcs, specifically for Barry and Iris. DC makes these decisions and it has millions of dollars tied into The Flash comics and the upcoming the movie. Helbing had no choice about writing in an adult child for Barry and Iris. This decision along with merging her with XS would have come from Geoff Johns and DC. I think similarly Helbing will have no choice with the timing of Iris' pregnancy and I definitely think that she will have a version of the Tornado Twins because I have seen them popping up in different DC properties and the comic panel of Wally and Linda's twins was posted on The Flash Writer's Room Twitter account. The question is does it happen next season or do they wait. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[Mellowyellow]

 People fall in love and get married. Quite a lot of them (most of them) go on to have kids. Why is that such a unique concept?

If you tell a future story about married people chances are their kids will be running around. 

Why does a couple on one show need to be childless so as to not "copy" another show?

Iris can have a dozen kids if that's the story they want to tell. The couple on This is Us had a bunch of kids. Fresh Off the Boat has 3 kids and a baby. Really it's nothing new in TV land.

You just celebrate the baby/babies that you're invested in. 

[BeautifulFlower]

48 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 People fall in love and get married. Quite a lot of them (most of them) go on to have kids. Why is that such a unique concept?

If you tell a future story about married people chances are their kids will be running around. 

Why does a couple on one show need to be childless so as to not "copy" another show?

Iris can have a dozen kids if that's the story they want to tell. The couple on This is Us had a bunch of kids. Fresh Off the Boat has 3 kids and a baby. Really it's nothing new in TV land.

You just celebrate the baby/babies that you're invested in. 

From what I've seen, people are just tired of the similarities with The Flash and Arrow.

There's the Crisis on Earth-X double wedding thing. Nobody liked that Oliver/Felicity got married as well. People were going on about how they'll probably have a double baby shower in the future. So yeah, people really didn't want Iris and Felicity pregnant at the same time. 

But going back to the first thing, people are jut mainly tired of the similarities. Especially with this one. As I said everybody knew the current season of the Flash would feature Nora, WA future daughter. Arrow showrunners didn't have to do basically the same thing. By same thing, I mean having their future daughter on the show as well.

[Trini]

Maybe there's a Joe/Ralph/Cecile subplot in 5.18?

[adora721]

On 2/12/2019 at 2:48 PM, Trini said:

J. Niera and K. Wheeler are writing episode 18 (the one Panabaker is directing):

"Sure Jan..."

I'll be praying for Candice to survive this dark time.

[Trini]

From the writer of 5.16:

[Starry]

I hope they keep the joke in but at the rate they are going...

14 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Realistically speaking, if Felicity's pregnant now and say, 4-6 weeks along, then she should be giving birth in September. Or maybe beginning of October, for the premiere. 

To give birth in the beginning of December, you'd have to get pregnant in early March. And most people don't find out until they're at least 4 weeks or so, sometimes longer, so if Iris were to find out in early May that she was pregnant, that times itself out for a crossover birth much better than Felicity's being pregnant now.

Of course, I don't know if they're just going to ignore all those details.

Why should Iris give birth IN the crossover? Apart from the fact that I don't understand why some want it when we saw what they did to another WestAllen milestone during Crisis on Earth-X, I don't get where the speculation comes from.

Let's say they follow the original idea and have Barry vanish after WA had their baby, Nora said that she was little when Crisis happened, not that she was born during it. I don't even think it's comic canon for Iris to give birth during Crisis.

You are probably right, they have timed Felicity's pregnancy so that she can give birth in the s8 premiere. Just in time for her and Oliver to have a newborn when Crisis strikes. This is similar to what happened to Barry and Iris in the original timeline Nora comes from.

I don't think they are doing a real parallel this time. Olicity are probably getting the Crisis story that was originally supposed to go to WestAllen ( superhero with a small kid/newborn fights enemies during Crisis. Maximum emotional impact ). IMO what could happen is Nora is one of the Crisis casualties and Iris finds out she's pregnant soon after so that Nora can be reborn as one half of the Tornado Twins.

Having Iris, or even Felicity, give birth IN the crossover is IMO unlikely. Not to mention crappy since that means they'll be benched the entire time.

[Velocity23]

9 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

From what I've seen, people are just tired of the similarities with The Flash and Arrow.

There's the Crisis on Earth-X double wedding thing. Nobody liked that Oliver/Felicity got married as well. People were going on about how they'll probably have a double baby shower in the future. So yeah, people really didn't want Iris and Felicity pregnant at the same time. 

But going back to the first thing, people are jut mainly tired of the similarities. Especially with this one. As I said everybody knew the current season of the Flash would feature Nora, WA future daughter. Arrow showrunners didn't have to do basically the same thing. By same thing, I mean having their future daughter on the show as well.

There are a lot of similarities between the shows, where even Flash coppied from Arrow. People need to realise that the writers of these shows are comic fans themselves and they like to repeat pattern especially since it seems there is a exchange of writers a lot. 

Fans fans might not have liked the double wedding, but its what these showrunners thrive on. Its the gotcha moment

Also both shows introduced future generations isnt about WA vs Olicity. This is WB/CW aiming for a spin-off involving all of the kids of the superheroes. That means Nora/tornado twins, Mia, William, Connor Hawke , Zoe (future Black Canary). Its also a device to give the lead actors more time off. 

[RedVitC]

Raises hand hesitantly...I liked that Oliver and Felicity also got married/the double wedding...and I would think it's cute if Iris and Felicity were pregnant at the same time or had a baby shower together....I hope we get interaction and maybe down the road a friendship between Nora and Mia...slinks back into the shadow

😂

I'll not deny that the timing of it all seems a bit convenient in the way they also brought in a mysterious girl that was revealed to be the grown up daughter of our main couple, but as for a daughter existing in the future, It's not really a surprise that if you have a flash forward that Oliver and Felicity would have grown up children and since they already have a son I can see why they wanted to give them a daughter. Whenever you get time travel or flash forwards there's almost always going to be offspring for someone in the group that the audience didn't know about. Those are the kind of tropes that are fun to play out in sci fi. This isn't even really that, it's just Oliver and Felicity, a married couple, have a child in the near future. That child would logically be grown up in any flash forwards. 

For example (spoiler for Agents of Shield),

Spoiler

I think, and I don't watch so this is purely from what I've seen on my dash, Agents of Shield had a grandson from the future storyline the same season Flash introduced Nora. 

This being Arrow's 7th season I think the flash forwards were brought in to potentially give the show a future beyond Oliver should that be necessary and when they decided on flash forwards they had to decide now whether Oliver and Felicity would have a baby together. I think all of this, Nora, Mia the flash forwards and even crisis being next year is part of a larger conversation behind the scenes about the future of the arrowverse and what comes next.

Edited February 14, 2019 by RedVitC

[RedVitC]

11 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

This is WB/CW aiming for a spin-off involving all of the kids of the superheroes. That means Nora/tornado twins, Mia, William, Connor Hawke , Zoe (future Black Canary). 

That's what I've been thinking! (Either that or they want Arrow to continue with the Arrow kids, while the current cast become recurring or something, but I'd prefer them to just start a new show that takes place in the future if they want to have a show with the kids.)

It makes sense that they'd want a young justice type spin off, and by connecting it to the other shows by making them the offspring of characters we already know you at least have part of the audience checking it out. Even though the roster is already quite full, I'd think they'd like to add a legacy a character from Supergirl and maybe Legends of Tomorrow (but on Supergirl they might not be ready to make any decisions on couples) and also add maybe one non legacy character.

I'd say for regulars maybe 2 characters from Arrow (Mia and ?? - the rest of the legacy characters are also there but maybe recurring), 1 or 2 from Flash (depending if there are tornado twins or it's just Nora),1 from Supergirl, 1 from Legends of Tomorrow and 1 non legacy character. That would make a cast of 7 regulars, which is quite big but somewhat on par with how many regulars the other shows have, and since it would be a team up show I think it could work. I'm rambling because I actually really like the idea 😂

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, RedVitC said:

Raises hand hesitantly...I liked that Oliver and Felicity also got married/the double wedding...and I would think it's cute if Iris and Felicity were pregnant at the same time or had a baby shower together....I hope we get interaction and maybe down the road a friendship between Nora and Mia...slinks back into the shadow

Maybe the issue is that neither O/F nor B/I have been planning to have kids right now?  Barry and Iris talked about it early in the season but weren't ready, and we've seen no indication that Oliver and Felicity were ready to expand their family.  Two unexpected pregnancies at almost the exact same time would be awfully convenient.  This obviously happens in real life too but I've always assumed that most committed couples aren't constantly being surprised by unplanned pregnancies.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

There are a lot of similarities between the shows, where even Flash coppied from Arrow.

What did Flash copy from Arrow?

[shantown]

I like the idea of Teen Arrow & Friends, but I'm just confused on when it would be set? In 2046? Seems like that would be tough to have an entire show set in the future. I like the idea though!

[quarks]

20 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I'm sorry, but that's not a parallel.

Nora appeared in 4x08. Grant said he knew about Nora since the beginning of season 4. 

Todd revealed in an interview that the producers told them to bring in their child from the future. The writers room for season 4 opened in May 2017, which means Todd was probably told in May or before they started storyboarding season 4. AJK, before he was fired, knew about it too. Both him and Guggie were responsible for the crossover that year. So Guggie knew what was happening.

Flash forward to May 2018. New article came out after the finale talking about Nora. They talked about Nora at comic con.

TL;DR, Arrow copied. Nora was planned since 2017. Now, Arrow could've kept the future storyline, but they didn't need to include OF's child. Especially since many news outlets talked about how season 5 of The Flash was going to be about WA future daughter. I'm sorry, but that's copying in my eyes. 

I get this, but indications are that it was the other way around - with Flash copying from Legends of Tomorrow and Arrow.

1. During winter 2016, the Arrow producers and Pedowitz mentioned that Arrow was tossing around ideas about what to do once Oliver's Increasingly Irrelevant Flashback Adventures came to an end in the following season, 2017, adding that it was all in the very early stages.

In separate interviews in 2014, 2015 and 2016, MG acknowledged Arrow's debt to Lost, which featured not just a mysterious evil island, but flashbacks in early seasons and flashforwards in later seasons.

2. The first appearance of a future Star City was in Legends of Tomorrow 106, "Star City 2046," written by Marc Guggenheim & Ray Utarnachitt. It aired on February 25, 2016, and featured Connor Hawke, John Diggle's son. At the time, interviews from the producers and the actor indicated that we might see Connor Hawke in future Arrowverse shows in some capacity. Sure enough, that character/actor has returned to Arrow in the flashforwards this season. 

That was a solid year before the idea came up on Flash in May 2017.

3. On April 17, 2018, Arrow announced that its showrunners were leaving and would be replaced by Beth Schwartz. Multiple interviews by MG, Schwartz, several cast members and Marc Pedowitz indicate that prior to getting hired as the show runner, Schwartz was asked to pitch her plans for season seven. Given the screentime devoted to the flashforwards this season, it's almost certain that her pitch included the flashforwards.

Given the time it takes to negotiate showrunner contracts, this pitch must have been made by March 2018 at the latest, and more probably January/February 2018. This is supported by the announcement on April 9, 2018 that Colton Haynes, who has so far mostly been featured in the flashforwards, would be returning to Arrow as a regular, and by Arrow's decision not to dismantle the Arrow Cave set after Diaz "destroyed" it in an episode filmed in March 2018.

4. That pitch was early. Other interviews have confirmed that Arrow, Flash and Riverdale typically make their season pitches to the network in April and occasionally May, getting approval from the WB and CW in May/June. 

5. Confirming that Flash was on schedule here, Jessica Parker Kennedy was specifically brought on board as a regular in June 2018.

6. Kat McNamara, granted, was hired by all accounts sometime in late August/early September 2018. 

7. Still, all other info suggests that Arrow pitched and got approval for its flashforward plans before Flash pitched and got approval for its plan to bring in Nora as a regular and focus on her that season. 

8. As others have noted, Mia is one of four future flashforward kids - Connor, William, Zoe and Mia. Future Connor was introduced in 2016. William was technically first introduced in Arrow 220, "Seeing Red," which aired on April 23, 2014, and first appeared on screen in December 2015. Zoe was first mentioned in fall 2016 and first appeared on screen in Arrow 513, "Spectre of the Gun," which aired on February 15, 2017. 

That is, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow introduced three of these four future kids and their vision of a collapsed, brutal Star City well before Flash introduced Nora and before the Flash producers were told to bring in Nora.

And Lost, which aired between 2004-2010, did all of this first.

But since we're speaking of copying, I kinda want to note that both Flash and Legends of Tomorrow had Groundhog Day episodes this year. I have no idea when these episodes were pitched, but Legends of Tomorrow's Groundhog Day episode was scripted and filmed before Flash's was.

And of course, Groundhog Day did all of this first too.

(Edited to correct Zoe's first onscreen appearance - actually a couple months earlier than I thought.)

Edited February 14, 2019 by quarks

[Velocity23]

49 minutes ago, shantown said:

I like the idea of Teen Arrow & Friends, but I'm just confused on when it would be set? In 2046? Seems like that would be tough to have an entire show set in the future. I like the idea though!

Arrow Ff are set in 2040. They also doing a whole episode of FF titled Star city 2040. 

[RedVitC]

56 minutes ago, shantown said:

I like the idea of Teen Arrow & Friends, but I'm just confused on when it would be set? In 2046? Seems like that would be tough to have an entire show set in the future. I like the idea though!

Yeah, especially if the shows from the present are still ongoing. It's one of the things that makes me wonder about the idea of them doing this especially since they just greenlit Batwoman which is also set in the present. But it's far enough in the future that they could somehow make it work, if the writer rooms make some good agreements on what they can and can't do and stay in communication. 

The Arrow Flash forwards are in 2040, but the Flash ones so far are from 2049 so that does create some potential issues if they want to use the same actors. 9 years is a long time.

I don't remember exactly but I think someone said in an interview Nora is 24, so that means she'd be born in 2025. However in the show she said she was born a few years before Barry disappeared so I'll take that as canon. Let's say 2 years before Barry disappears, so 2022 making her 27. If because crisis is moved up (and I'm still not entirely convinced it will, they could do a time jump) she's born in either 2019 or 2020 she would be 27 in 2046/2047 so your 2046 could work. But it might not work that way with timeline changes or maybe a different version of Nora is born because of all the changes. Until we know what year crisis takes place, and what changes it makes it would be hard to say. Maybe they'll all go 1000 years in the future to join the legion of super-heroes. 😁

[Trini]

22 minutes ago, quarks said:

7. Still, all other info suggests that Arrow pitched and got approval for its flashforward plans before Flash pitched and got approval for its plan to bring in Nora as a regular and focus on her that season. 

Just one thing; the showrunners were planning to bring in Nora (in Season 5) since the start of Season 4.
 

30 minutes ago, quarks said:

I get this, but indications are that it was the other way around - with Flash copying from Legends of Tomorrow and Arrow.

Just because LoT did a future episode doesn't mean Flash 'copied' it. Time travel and characters and events from the future are part of the very premise of the show. Barry & Iris' descendants were going to show up eventually; and definitely after they got married. (Most thought it would be Bart, the grandson.) Flash had teased Tornado Twins as early as the Season 3 premiere.

I don't know if it necessarily has to do with any 'copying'; but it does seem weird to me that both these connected shows are doing arcs with adult daughters of the leads at the exact same time.

[RedVitC]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Maybe the issue is that neither O/F nor B/I have been planning to have kids right now?  Barry and Iris talked about it early in the season but weren't ready, and we've seen no indication that Oliver and Felicity were ready to expand their family.  Two unexpected pregnancies at almost the exact same time would be awfully convenient.  This obviously happens in real life too but I've always assumed that most committed couples aren't constantly being surprised by unplanned pregnancies.

I think that's one of those TV show things where they try to get the most drama out of situations. I'm trying to remember if on any of these types of shows a couple ever had a baby after deciding they were ready to have a baby. Joe and Cecile it was also unexpected. What was it like for Diggly and Lyla, I don't remember? I was mostly speaking hypothetically though, if Iris does also get pregnant I think it would be a nice thing for them to share, perhaps new mothers might find a lot of support in talking to other new mothers, but I'm not actually that convinced they'll be pregnant at the same time.

[Trini]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Also both shows introduced future generations isnt about WA vs Olicity. This is WB/CW aiming for a spin-off involving all of the kids of the superheroes. That means Nora/tornado twins, Mia, William, Connor Hawke , Zoe (future Black Canary). Its also a device to give the lead actors more time off. 

I agree it's not a versus thing. However, I don't think a spin-off is the reason for all this. A spin-off could be the result of all this, though. But Batwoman is most likely coming next season (mid-season?), so two seasons away might be the first we see of that - if it happens. And I don't know if TPTB are planning that far ahead.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Trini

[Velocity23]

5 minutes ago, Trini said:

I agree it's not a versus thing. However, I don't think a spin-off is the reason for all this. A spin-off could be the result of all this, though. But Batwoman is most likely coming next season (mid-season?), so two seasons away might be the first we see of that - if it happens.

Not really because in 1 year it could easily be announced to replace LOT. Or the announced could came even in 2019. 

[Trini]

Back to Flash spoilers...

Looks like Gates is a writer 5.17:

[SimoneS]

I have seen chatter that Ralph and Joe are crossing over to Arrow. Has been leaked or is it speculation because of their photo outside the Arrow set? 

Edited February 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

45 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have seen chatter that Ralph and Joe crossing over to Arrow. Has been leaked or is it speculation because of their photo outside the Arrow set?

Speculation. Flash production is probably using one of the Arrow sets.

[Trini]

5.15 description:

Quote

“King Shark vs. Gorilla Grodd”

THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN — When Gorilla Grodd (voiced by David Sobolov) attacks Central City, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Team Flash find themselves teaming up with an unexpected ally to defeat – King Shark (voiced by David Hayter). However, when they hit a snag, they bring in Dr. Tanya Lamden (guest star Zibby Allen) to try to reach the man behind the shark, Shay Lamden (guest star Dan Payne).

Stefan Pleszczynski directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Lauren Certo
(#515). Original airdate 3/5/2019.

Hmm - no mention of a B-plot, though I'm sure there is one. This feels like it's going to be another so-so episode. I hope the B-plot is interesting at least. Maybe it will be Sherlogue's discoveries about Nora's journal; and he finally talks to Iris/Barry about it?

[Trini]

Quote

However, when they hit a snag, they bring in Dr. Tanya Lamden to try to reach the man behind the shark, Shay Lamden.

I hope they remember that this King Shark is from Earth-2; but I'm not counting on it.

[SimoneS]

I have been going back and forth about Iris' pregnancy. I am back to thinking that Iris will be pregnant before the crisis next season. 

I am excited about Grodd vs. King Shark. I also think that maybe in this episode ARGUS finds out about the meta cure which will be huge development. 

I think it is too soon for Sherloque to expose Nora. Even if he translates the Speed Force language, he will need proof that Nora is working with Thawne or trick her into revealing herself. I think this might not happen until episode 18 or even later. 

[BeautifulFlower]

14 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have been going back and forth about Iris' pregnancy. I am back to thinking that Iris will be pregnant before the crisis next season. 

I am excited about Grodd vs. King Shark. I also think that maybe in this episode ARGUS finds out about the meta cure which will be huge development. 

I think it is too soon for Sherloque to expose Nora. Even if he translates the Speed Force language, he will need proof that Nora is working with Thawne or trick her into revealing herself. I think this might not happen until episode 18 or even later. 

I still hate that Cisco invented something to translate a language that doesn't exist anywhere on Earth. I know this show is unrealistic, but that is too unrealistic. How does his program even know what letter the symbols would stand for in the first place

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I still hate that Cisco invented something to translate a language that doesn't exist anywhere on Earth. I know this show is unrealistic, but that is too unrealistic. How does his program even know what letter the symbols would stand for in the first place

No doubt, it is ridiculous. The show could have Barry have limited memory about how the language, giving Cisco a realistic clue for translating it or maybe have the language related to hieroglyphics found in early civilizations that might have had speedsters. 

[Trini]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:43 PM, SimoneS said:

I have been going back and forth about Iris' pregnancy. I am back to thinking that Iris will be pregnant before the crisis next season. 

I am excited about Grodd vs. King Shark. I also think that maybe in this episode ARGUS finds out about the meta cure which will be huge development. 

I think it is too soon for Sherloque to expose Nora. Even if he translates the Speed Force language, he will need proof that Nora is working with Thawne or trick her into revealing herself. I think this might not happen until episode 18 or even later. 

Even though I still don't want Iris to be pregnant any time soon, I think there's a good chance that you're right. Especially with Nora changing the timeline.

It would be a huge development; but so far this show has been hesitant to really portray ARGUS as a threat (even with some of the dubious things they've done so far), so we'll see.

Nooooo -- I think episode 18 would be way too late for that reveal. They've already been drawing it out too long. I'm hoping it's at the end of episode 16, the latest.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Trini

[adora721]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

No doubt, it is ridiculous. The show could have Barry have limited memory about how the language, giving Cisco a realistic clue for translating it or maybe have the language related to hieroglyphics found in early civilizations that might have had speedsters. 

Or Cisco could have gone to Gideon to get a primer of some sort (his Rosetta Stone) to help translate the writing, but that would be making some sense.

[SimoneS]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:18 PM, Trini said:

Even though I still don't want Iris to be pregnant any time soon, I think there's a good chance that you're right. Especially with Nora changing the timeline.

It would be a huge development; but so far this show has been hesitant to really portray ARGUS as a threat (even with some of the dubious things they've done so far), so we'll see.

I am always changing my mind about Iris' pregnancy so I might have a different opinion next post, but for right now, I think that she will be pregnant by the end of this season or early next season before the crisis. Of course, Thawne's goal has been to destroy Barry's life so he could be trying to alter the timeline so that Barry's children aren't conceived like he did when he tried kill Barry as child.

I am hoping that A.R.G.U.S. does find out the meta cure. If Team Flash doesn't hand it over, I can see it breaking in and stealing it at some point. Did General Iling from season one work for A.R.G.U.S. or was he with the military? Too bad we lost him. I thought he was a good nemesis for Team Flash and Clancy Brown is always great to have around. 

On 2/16/2019 at 9:18 PM, Trini said:

Nooooo -- I think episode 18 would be way too late for that reveal. They've already been drawing it out too long. I'm hoping it's at the end of episode 16, the latest.

I hope that you are right and that I am dead wrong. I just feel like they are stalling the reveal. Iris doesn't ask Sherloque why he is investigating Nora, Barry doesn't become suspicious when Nora's subconscious uses the Reverse Flash as her defense mechanism, and then Nora successfully distracted Sherloque with Irene Adler. At least, Sherloque is back on Nora's trail. Hopefully, she doesn't realize it. I do wonder how they will do the reveal. I can't imagine that Barry and Iris accepting the truth about Nora and confronting her without persuasive evidence. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

I just realized that Joe is coming back in the same episode as Grodd.... Poor Joe!

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, Trini said:

I just realized that Joe is coming back in the same episode as Grodd.... Poor Joe!

Joe is never escaping Grodd. Ha! I can't wait to see Jesse back and in form. I have missed Joe a lot. I wonder what his role will be with Nora. Right now, she is solely involved with Barry and Iris. Will Joe become suspicious about her?

[scarynikki12]

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[Trini]

For those interested in where they are in production:

[BeautifulFlower]

So Susan will be in 5x19. Might be Caitlin centric

I have to agree with this person. 

If my math is correct, 5x19 would a 13 episode gap since 5x6? Assuming if the ep is Caitlin centric of course. Shouldn't the last few episodes focus on the Cicada storyline. I never understood having fillers so late. Again, if this is a Caitlin centric episode.

It could have Caitlin with ANOTHER subplot. After all, Caitlin's mom last appeared in 5x03 or 5x04. Either way, if this is involving Icicle, that still is a big gap to possibly conclude that storyline.

[adora721]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

So Susan will be in 5x19. Might be Caitlin centric

I have to agree with this person. 

If my math is correct, 5x19 would a 13 episode gap since 5x6? Assuming if the ep is Caitlin centric of course. Shouldn't the last few episodes focus on the Cicada storyline. I never understood having fillers so late. Again, if this is a Caitlin centric episode.

It could have Caitlin with ANOTHER subplot. After all, Caitlin's mom last appeared in 5x03 or 5x04. Either way, if this is involving Icicle, that still is a big gap to possibly conclude that storyline.

It may very well be about Cicada since Cait and her dad are the only ones not susceptible to Cicada's dagger powers. I suspect a team up will occur between Icicle and Killer Frost to defeat Cicada or at least Orlin's version of Cicada.  Daddy Icicle may very well die in the attempt at least as a way of redeeming him for Caitlin's sake.

[adora721]

Joe and Iris stills from "King Shark vs Gorilla Grodd"

https://araybiaaa.tumblr.com/post/182941051423/promotional-stills-of-candice-patton-in-king-shark

More here: http://flashtvnews.com/flash-photos-killer-shark-vs-gorilla-grodd/32382

Edited February 20, 2019 by adora721

[SimoneS]

Great to have Joe back and Jesse looking so well! Nice to see that he will have scenes with Iris and not just Barry.

Got to admit that I haven't been a fan of Iris' wardrobe this season. She is dressing like a mother, not a hot young professional woman.

Edited February 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

10 hours ago, adora721 said:

Joe and Iris stills from "King Shark vs Gorilla Grodd"

https://araybiaaa.tumblr.com/post/182941051423/promotional-stills-of-candice-patton-in-king-shark

More here: http://flashtvnews.com/flash-photos-killer-shark-vs-gorilla-grodd/32382

Yay! We get to see Barry's office/lab and the West house again, a Joe/Iris subplot, and Iris with a whole other hairstyle! So the B-plot is the one that I'm going to really pay attention to.

With Joe/JLM finally returning to the show, it's dumb that they didn't mention him in the episode synopsis.

No photos of Nora, or any mention of her in the episode description; but I'm guessing she's in the A-plot? Her suit (and Barry's) were on one of the computer screens in STAR Labs in the photos. Unless she has a C-plot (with Eobard?) apart from everyone else. I doubt she's completely missing from the episode.

If nothing else, I'm glad we'll get a short break from Cicada.

---------

Since Icicle got away last time, I knew they were going to come back to him eventually. The only way I'm going to even half pay attention to that plot is if they actually gave Caitlin and her mother some development. (I don't even know why they brought the actress in for a 15-second cameo the last time she was here.)

Edited February 21, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

So do they cure King Shark? I'm guessing he's the first test subject for the Cure.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Trini said:

So do they cure King Shark? I'm guessing he's the first test subject for the Cure.

That would be an interesting development. ARGUS would definitely have to know about the meta-cure.