Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[adora721]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

So do they cure King Shark? I'm guessing he's the first test subject for the Cure.

Hubbah! Hubbah! He's quite attractive!

[SimoneS]

Since King Shark is from Earth 2, will he go back home after taking the meta-cure?  He is hot. He should stick around. I wouldn't mind some more eye candy.

[adora721]

I thought he looked familiar; he's the man behind the Beast in the Disney movie "Descendants" (Don't judge me!) He's Canadian actor Dan Payne and is 6ft 4 in.

Edited February 21, 2019 by adora721

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

I thought he looked familiar; he's the man behind the Beast in the Disney movie "Descendants" (Don't judge me!) He's Canadian actor Dan Payne and is 6ft 4 in.

Knowing about hot men deserves good judgement only. 🙂 We haven't had a built hot man as a regular on this show since Teddy Spears. Kendrick Sampson (Brianstorm) was the last guest star that I was able to drool over. I wouldn't mind if this guy sticks around for a couple episodes, but I am not getting my hopes up.

[Trini]

18 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Since King Shark is from Earth 2, will he go back home after taking the meta-cure? 

I'm 98% sure that the writers have forgotten about that, or they're just going to ignore it. But on the off chance that they do remember that detail, it would be a nice exit for that character.

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Knowing about hot men deserves good judgement only. 🙂 We haven't had a built hot man as a regular on this show since Teddy Spears. Kendrick Sampson (Brianstorm) was the last guest star that I was able to drool over. I wouldn't mind if this guy sticks around for a couple episodes, but I am not getting my hopes up.

Oh man -- they did Dominic/Brainstorm so, SO dirty in the brief time he was on the show; but yes, I was also upset that they killed off some fine eye candy!

Edited February 22, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

5.16 episode description:

Quote

“Failure is an Orphan” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

THE META-CURE IS READY TO USE ON CICADA — With the meta-human cure ready to use, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Team Flash must figure out a way to subdue Cicada (Chris Klein) long enough to take it. Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) steps in to help with the plan. Meanwhile, Joe (Jesse L. Martin) eases back into work, and Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) isn’t happy about the way her dad plans to stop Cicada.

Viet Nguyen directed the episode written by Zack Stentz
(#516). Original airdate 3/12/2019.

------

The title apparently refers to the phrase, "Success has many fathers, but Failure is an orphan."

[Trini]

I hope they don't expect me to be excited about this episode and the possible defeat of Cicada when 'failure' is right there in the title.

From the writer :

[Trini]

45 minutes ago, Trini said:

Meanwhile, Joe eases back into work,

I don't like that they're saying that he's actually been away this whole time. I was perfectly fine pretending that Joe was just offscreen, but still around. I hope Capt. Singh makes an appearance; they don't use him enough.

Quote

Team Flash must figure out a way to subdue Cicada long enough to take it. Killer Frost steps in to help with the plan.

Try pepper spray?

Not looking forward to the team losing AGAIN; because I'd be very, VERY surprised if they had an actual win this early. They should get back to Grace and Dr. Ambres - the actual interesting parts of this Cicada arc.

Quote

Nora isn’t happy about the way her dad plans to stop Cicada.

I'm guessing this might be where Iris is involved -- I hope. Well, it's Nora's turn to question using the cure.

Or... will this not be about the ethics of using the cure against Cicada, and maybe it just about the danger to her father. OR maybe Barry's plan goes against Eobard's plan that Nora insists on following?

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I don't like that they're saying that he's actually been away this whole time. I was perfectly fine pretending that Joe was just offscreen, but still around. I hope Capt. Singh makes an appearance; they don't use him enough.

They did mention he was hanging out with Wally in Tibet a few episodes ago.  It's kind of a dubious move on Joe's part if he really was away the entire time (you're going to leave Cecile alone with a newborn baby for an extended period of time?) but maybe he used the breach device to pop  in and out offscreen.

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Not looking forward to the team losing AGAIN; because I'd be very, VERY surprised if they had an actual win this early. They should get back to Grace and Dr. Ambres - the actual interesting parts of this Cicada arc.

It would be a nice twist if they do beat Cicada and then have to deal with Thawne for the rest of the season.  They've already come up with successful plans to immobilize Cicada and have only failed thanks to their own incompetence. 

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

I hope they don't expect me to be excited about this episode and the possible defeat of Cicada when 'failure' is right there in the title.

Ha. So true. I don't know why Helbing thought we would enjoy Cicada never ending escapes.  

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I hope Capt. Singh makes an appearance; they don't use him enough.

I would like to see more of David Singh also. I think the actor is very good and he is handsome. They used him a lot in the first three seasons, but less as they expanded Team Flash which sucked up the airtime for the CPD. We have barely seen the CPD set or Barry's lab this season or last season.

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm guessing this might be where Iris is involved -- I hope. Well, it's Nora's turn to question using the cure.

Or... will this not be about the ethics of using the cure against Cicada, and maybe it just about the danger to her father. OR maybe Barry's plan goes against Eobard's plan that Nora insists on following?

Based on the synopsis, Nora's secret definitely isn't out as yet. If she is upset, I think you are that is because Barry's plan not being consistent with Thawne's plan to defeat Cicada. Although since Cicada is now a different person, I don't get how Thawne will know how to stop him. This probably hasn't occurred Nora.

Edited February 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

Okay, we have huge news! I was on Reddit and saw there was news from that Canadagr Flash bog about episode 18. @Trini, you especially will be pleased to know that Nora's secret is out by episode 18. He saw them filming a night scene with Barry and Nora in 2049 where she says the dialogue,  "dad, you don't have to do this. I promise I'll never see Thawne again." He has photos of them filming the scene. The other news is that the episode is titled, "Godspeed." Does that mean we only get him for one episode? Underwhelming, if yes.

Edited February 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

So, 5x18 is the one DP is directing, and it may be Barry and Nora centric with limited Iris; good thing for CP.

Here are some photos:

[SimoneS]

My speculation is that Barry travels to the future to confront Thawne. Barry and Nora then get into a fight with Godspeed and Nora is injured which is why we see him helping her. Honestly, I find this all disappointing, but not surprising. I was really hoping that Barry and Iris would be tough on Nora, maybe even put her in the pipeline until Barry travels to the future to confront Thawne and talk to future Iris, but it sounds like they just let it go because she promised to stop working with him. How can they possibly believe that they can trust her when she obviously lacks good judgement.

31 minutes ago, adora721 said:

So, 5x18 is the one DP is directing, and it may be Barry and Nora centric with limited Iris; good thing for CP.

I certainly hope so.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

@Trini, you especially will be pleased to know that Nora's secret is out by episode 18.

I hope it's sooner than that, because that's still way late. I have a feeling that we're not going to get the annual "breather" episode because there will be too much stuff to wrap up (in a satisfying way) by the end of the season.

They still have to a) defeat Cicada, b) deal with Grace and the Doctor, c) deal with Nora's betrayal (and redemption?), d) foil Eobard/Reverse Flash's plans, and e) set up stuff for the Crisis crossover. Plus other stuff like growing the Central City Citizen, revisiting Icicle and KF's family/powers drama, backstory on the Nora/Eobard partnership, and bringing in Ralph's love interest (but I'm growing more convinced that this isn't going to happen this season). And maybe setting up a cast departure.

But then the show has a history of just dropping stuff they're not interested in anymore, so maybe they have all the time they need!

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The other news is that the episode is titled, "Godspeed." Does that mean we only get him for one episode? Underwhelming, if yes.

I'm not really sure what to speculate about that, since they usually do something different from the source material. It would be a waste to only have Godspeed just for one episode, but they've done that before. They've also referenced things from the comics but in name only.

It would be weird for them to introduce another speedster villain so late in the season.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Trini

[SimoneS]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

I hope it's sooner than that, because that still way late. I have a feeling that we're not going to get the annual "breather" episode because there will be too much stuff to wrap up (in a satisfying way) by the end of the season.

They still have to a) defeat Cicada, b) deal with Grace and the Doctor, c) deal with Nora's betrayal (and redemption?), d) foil Eobard/Reverse Flash's plans, and e) set up stuff for the Crisis crossover. Plus other stuff like growing the Central City Citizen, revisiting Icicle and KF's family/powers drama, backstory on the Nora/Eobard partnership, and bringing in Ralph's love interest (but I'm growing more convinced that this isn't going to happen this season). And maybe setting up a cast departure.

But then the show has a history of just dropping stuff they're not interested in anymore, so maybe they have all the time they need!

I'm not really sure what to speculate about that, since they usually do something different from the source material. It would be a waste to only have Godspeed just for one episode, but they've done that before. They've also referenced things from the comics but in name only.

It would be weird for them to introduce another speedster villain so late in the season.

I think the season will end as previously seasons have ended, in a convoluted mess, especially since they only have 22 episodes thanks to the annoying crossover. If Barry is in the future in episode 18, Sherloque must out Nora in episode 17 . I can't see Barry waiting two or three episodes to run to the future and confront Thawne. Nora probably followed Barry there. Just writing this makes me just dread the let down that the show is sure to give us in Barry and Iris' reaction to Nora's betrayal. I don't know why I got my hopes up so high.

I don't know what to expect with Cicada/Grace/the doctor, but I don't think that they will be dealing with Thawne in a major way until next season. They will think that they have thwarted him by having Nora stop working with him, but it will be already too late. She has already set everything in motion and it can't be stopped. The more I think about it, the more I think that Thawne's plan must be twofold; first escape from prison by changing an event that caused him to get caught (maybe to do with Cicada) and second to move forward the date of Barry's disappearance. If Nora is erased or sacrifices herself to save Barry at the end of the season, then that will be the event that triggers the fight between Thawne and Barry, maybe in time for the crisis.

Edited February 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Just writing this makes me just dread the let down that the show is sure to give us in Barry and Iris' reaction to Nora's betrayal. I don't know why I got my hopes up so high.

28 minutes ago, Trini said:

c) deal with Nora's betrayal (and redemption?)

Come on! After they way Barry and Iris (and Cisco) dealt with Caitlin's betrayal, attempted murder of them, and abetting of HR's murder, are we really surprised they'll just treat Nora's behavior as if she stole a forbidden cookie?  I mean, if they can sweep all the evil a friend like Caitlin did under the rug, it's no small feat to do the same for their child. While I don't consider Nora's betrayal near as bad as what Caitlin did, I can understand Barry and Iris forgiving their kid anything, and the writing for it will be poor.

Edited February 22, 2019 by adora721

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Come on! After they way Barry and Iris (and Cisco) dealt with Caitlin's betrayal, attempted murder of them, and abetting of HR's murder, are we really surprised they'll just treat Nora's behavior as if she stole a forbidden cookie?  I mean, if they can sweep all the evil a friend like Caitlin did under the rug, it's no small feat to do the same for their child. While I don't consider Nora's betrayal near as bad as what Caitlin did, I can understand Barry and Iris forgiving their kid anything, and the writing for it will be poor.

I know that you are right, but still... Maybe they will make Iris the bad guy and have her stay angry at Nora. I will take that.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

So, 5x18 is the one DP is directing, and it may be Barry and Nora centric with limited Iris; good thing for CP.

I don't think limiting Iris is good for Candice. Both ladies know how to be professional, it'll be fine.
 

17 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't know what to expect with Cicada/Grace/the doctor, but I don't think that they will be dealing with Thawne in a major way until next season. They will think that they have thwarted him by having Nora stop working with him, but it will be already too late. She has already set everything in motion and it can't be stopped....

Agreed that the Thawne story is going to carry over into next season; but I think they still have to give Barry some type of 'win' before then. But yeah, Nora(/Thawne) has already changed the timeline so much, there's only so much that can be done.

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Agreed that the Thawne story is going to carry over into next season; but I think they still have to give Barry some type of 'win' before then. But yeah, Nora(/Thawne) has already changed the timeline so much, there's only so much that can be done.

Barry likely will think that he has won by stopping Nora from working Thawne and defeating Cicada. But I think that Barry will definitely realize that he has lost this round with Thawne by the final episode. Nora will be gone and/or the newspaper headline will have changed bringing forward his "disappearance" leaving Barry and Iris devastated. I wouldn't be surprised if Barry runs to the future to confront Thawne only to discover that he has escaped or maybe Thawne goes back to the past to gloat before escaping.

Edited February 23, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

29 minutes ago, Trini said:

I don't think limiting Iris is good for Candice. Both ladies know how to be professional, it'll be fine.

CP liked this Instagram post on Monday, so, just in this instance, she may be happy for less Iris screentime because it means less DP "supervision": 

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, adora721 said:

CP liked this Instagram post on Monday, so, just in this instance, she may be happy for less Iris screentime because it means less DP "supervision": 

It does seem that the rumors that Candice and DP have a tense relationship are true. 

[RedVitC]

Interesting, is this the future flashback episode Todd teased? I almost wish they'd just done an entire episode with just Nora's backstory. I fear there won't be enough time to flesh out both the flashbacks and the trip to the future. Still looking forward to this though. I hope future Iris makes an appearance.

I saw a video someone made and it looks like Barry and Nora speed land into that location (the future?) and then have that conversation mentioned. I think the reveal might be at the end of 17 and then Barry is like we're going to fix this right now or something. The question is, what is it that he plans to do? Not kill Thawne, right?

(I prefer not to comment on Candice and Danielle, but I wanted to mention I've seen Candice like that meme when that page posted it before so I wouldn't read too much into the timing of this one. I don't remember exactly when. I want to say during the summer or maybe second half of s4, but I don't remember )

[SimoneS]

More news. Godspeed is coming. Below are some photos from the filming yesterday. I have seen speculation that it is a flash forward before Nora traveled back to he past because of her long hair. Godspeed chases Leah and Nora and he catches them and kills Leah. I think that Nora goes to the future and Godspeed chases and injures Nora, but Barry saves her. The poster also shows a new villain, Razor. Honestly, I don't get why the show is spending so much time on Nora who will be gone sooner than later.

Edited February 23, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

More news. Godspeed is coming. Below are some photos from the filming yesterday. I have seen speculation that it is a flash forward before Nora traveled back to he past because of her long hair. Godspeed chases Leah and Nora and he catches them and kills Leah. I think that Nora goes to the future and Godspeed chases and injures Nora, but Barry saves her. The poster also shows a new villain, Razor. Honestly, I don't get why the show is spending so much time on Nora who will be gone sooner than later.

Who's Leah?

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Who's Leah?

There is speculation that it is Lia Nelson, a Flash from the comics.

[Trini]

Hmmm - so Godspeed is a future villain? In Nora's time? That still seems a waste.

On 2/22/2019 at 9:55 PM, RedVitC said:

Interesting, is this the future flashback episode Todd teased? I almost wish they'd just done an entire episode with just Nora's backstory. I fear there won't be enough time to flesh out both the flashbacks and the trip to the future. Still looking forward to this though. I hope future Iris makes an appearance.

They really NEED to do a future episode, and I hope this is it. It would make sense with this show and this season's arc with Nora.

[SevenStars]

Grant needing some time off would have been the perfect time for them to have done an episode in the future. 

[SimoneS]

I have lost any interest that I had in a future episode. I am tired of all the screentime that Nora is getting. What is the point when the future timeline is obviously going to change? Between Cicada and Nora it feels like the show is just spinning its wheels until it sets up the crisis.

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Hmmm - so Godspeed is a future villain? In Nora's time? That still seems a waste.

It does, but since the future timeline will change, he will end up being Barry's nemesis. I think that they won't reveal Godspeed's identity in this episode so when Barry gets a new partner in future season, it will be surprise.

Edited February 24, 2019 by SimoneS

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have lost any interest that I had in a future episode. I am tired of all the screentime that Nora is getting. What is the point when the future timeline is obviously going to change? Between Cicada and Nora it feels like the show is just spinning its wheels until it sets up the crisis.

It does, but since the future timeline will change, he will end up being Barry's nemesis. I think that they won't reveal Godspeed's identity in this episode so when Barry gets a new partner in future season, it will be surprise.

And watch, Godspeed will turn out to be a time remnant of Nora.

[SimoneS]

Below is leaked video of the Barry/Nora confrontation in 5x18. It does look like he is ticked off at her for lying so that is something.

Edited February 26, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

I have seen speculation which suggests that after Sherloque accuses Nora, Barry follows her to the future and catches her with Thawne so the Barry/Nora confrontation in the scene is the aftermath. This seems very plausible to me. Barry leaves Nora is anger and then she is chased by Godspeed so she goes to the past to escape him. 

[SimoneS]

THE FLASH
“Time Bomb” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

NORA DECIDES TO TELL BARRY AND IRIS THE TRUTH ABOUT THAWNE — Team Flash finds out that a suburban mom named Vickie Bolen (guest star Catherine Lough Haggquist) is in danger and they race to save her. Upon meeting her, they discover she’s a meta-human who is hiding her abilities from her family. Barry (Grant Gustin) encourages Vickie to share her secret with her family, which makes Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) realize she needs to come clean with her parents about Thawne (Tom Cavanagh). Rob Greenlea directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Sterling Gates (#517). Original airdate 3/19/2019.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/03/the-flash-episode-517-time-bomb-press.html

[RedVitC]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Barry leaves Nora is anger and then she is chased by Godspeed so she goes to the past to escape him. 

I'm not sure, but I think the Nora that has scenes with godspeed has a braid, so that is probably 'flashback' Nora. I do wonder if godspeed somehow also has something to do with why Nora traveled to the past in the first place (or is that what you meant, sorry if I misunderstood!)

[SimoneS]

I think Sherloque spills Nora's secret before she can tell her parents. Either Barry will confront Nora and then go to the future to confront Thawne or Barry will follow her to the future and catch her with Thawne.

21 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

I'm not sure, but I think the Nora that has scenes with godspeed has a braid, so that is probably 'flashback' Nora. I do wonder if godspeed somehow also has something to do with why Nora traveled to the past in the first place (or is that what you meant, sorry if I misunderstood!)

I agree that the leaked scenes of Godspeed chasing Nora and Lia and killing Lia is definitely a flashback of Nora's and that it is possible that the reason that she traveled to the future has something to with Godspeed. However, I think that Godspeed attacks Nora again when she is in the future, maybe after Barry speeds off and leaves her. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

5x16 "Failure is an Orphan" pictures

[RedVitC]

8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

However, I think that Godspeed attacks Nora again when she is in the future, maybe after Barry speeds off and leaves her.

Oh, that could make sense. I'd expect godspeed to be a fairly large presence since the episode is named after him.

They're so cute!

[Trini]

38 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

THE FLASH
“Time Bomb” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

NORA DECIDES TO TELL BARRY AND IRIS THE TRUTH ABOUT THAWNE — Team Flash finds out that a suburban mom named Vickie Bolen (guest star Catherine Lough Haggquist) is in danger and they race to save her. Upon meeting her, they discover she’s a meta-human who is hiding her abilities from her family. Barry (Grant Gustin) encourages Vickie to share her secret with her family, which makes Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) realize she needs to come clean with her parents about Thawne (Tom Cavanagh). Rob Greenlea directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Sterling Gates (#517). Original airdate 3/19/2019.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/03/the-flash-episode-517-time-bomb-press.html

FINALLY the secret will be out! Late, though. Kim is between meh and terrible, but Gates is good. Cautiously optimistic.

I'm wondering if the reveal is nearer the end of the episode, or in the first half, since the reveal seems to be the main story?

They don't name Cicada, but I assume that is why Vickie is in danger. So as hinted by the episode title, the cure (or plan) from the previous episode fails.

[Trini]

15 minutes ago, adora721 said:

5x16 "Failure is an Orphan" pictures

Yay! More WestAllen family photos to add to the album:

Yay! fatherly wisdom from Joe again:

I think they adjusted the neck area of the suit? It's looking better than at the start of the season:

[Trini]

So in 5.16, from the photos/description it looks like there'll be a good amount of West-Allen family stuff, before the bomb gets dropped in 5.17.

[SimoneS]

It looks like Jitters has been redesigned or it is a totally brand set.

Nice to see Joe is getting around and that Barry is back in his lab. It has been forever.

[SimoneS]

44 minutes ago, Trini said:

FINALLY the secret will be out! Late, though. Kim is between meh and terrible, but Gates is good. Cautiously optimistic.

I'm wondering if the reveal is nearer the end of the episode, or in the first half, since the reveal seems to be the main story?

They don't name Cicada, but I assume that is why Vickie is in danger. So as hinted by the episode title, the cure (or plan) from the previous episode fails.

I think that the reveal about Nora is to the end of the episode. Despite the synopsis, I think that the main story has to do with Grace and Cicada as well as Vickie based on photos that I have seen online.

Edited March 1, 2019 by SimoneS

[RedVitC]

From those picture above it looks like the Central City Citizen has its own building in 2049, pretty cool!

I'm also thinking it's the end of the episode. Barry must be really angry to just leave Nora in the future in the episode after, if that is how it plays out, especially without a real goodbye. As far as he knows he doesn't really see her again since he disappears shortly after she is born, so I think the reveal and anger is recent and there hasn't been a lot of time to process or talk over what was revealed.

[SimoneS]

43 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

I'm also thinking it's the end of the episode. Barry must be really angry to just leave Nora in the future in the episode after, if that is how it plays out, especially without a real goodbye. As far as he knows he doesn't really see her again since he disappears shortly after she is born, so I think the reveal and anger is recent and there hasn't been a lot of time to process or talk over what was revealed.

Honestly, I was expecting Barry and Iris to instantly forgive Nora, but now I think that Barry is going to tell her that he doesn't trust her any more and that she should not go back with him.

It is cool that Iris has her own building. I can only imagine how she buried herself in her work without Barry.

[Trini]

Sometimes there are still promo pics for scenes that are cut, so....

[SimoneS]

Let's just hope Helbing didn't cut the coffee shop scenes in favor of some missable action drama.

[Trini]

Heh - Lyla and ARGUS are going to be in both Arrow and Flash this week. I know Arrow is not going to mention anything from The Flash, but maybe we'll hear about Starling City shenanigans on this show.

[Trini]

More episode stills (of Grodd and King Shark) from 5.15 have been released; FlashTVNews has them in their gallery:

[Trini]

5.16 promo:

Cicada(?) attacks STAR Labs; no sign of Ralph or Cisco; Reverse Flash is up to something.

[SimoneS]

I couldn't barely tell anything from that preview, but is pretty unlikely that they will successfully stop Cicada since Grace and Cicada are in 5.17.

It impossible to know what Thawne is really up to with Nora's delusion about him. Maybe when they fail to stop Cicada, she will begin to wake up to the fact that Thawne is playing her.

[RedVitC]

I remember the description for next episode states Nora didn't like the way that Barry planned to go about stopping Cicada. Now that ep 15 aired, I guess that might mean she doesn't agree with the asking Cicada plan? I wonder what that means with regard to Thawne's plan. Apparently the way he is stopped does matter? Or maybe she just doesn't think it's a good idea.