Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

New Fall scoop from Variety

https://variety.com/gallery/fall-2018-returning-tv-shows-preview-gallery/#!14/blocked

New Photos of Barry and Nora. According to the link, this photo is from episode 2 Blocked.

Ooh, more daddy-daughter team-ups already! I'm glad they're doing this with Nora, but I wish they had done more of this with Wally and Barry, too.

This is a much better look at the new suit, and yeah... I like the Season 4 suit better. This more streamlined, but also a lot more plain and uninteresting. That works in the 2D medium of comic books, but a little boring for a TV costume.

I'm not totally sold on Nora's white gloves/gauntlets, but otherwise, she looks great!

 

Quote

“This year we’re exploring the theme of ‘legacy,’ and it’s really sparked by the arrival of Nora West-Allen, Barry and Iris’ daughter from the future. After learning about the future and what’s happened to everyone, each character will explore what’s truly important… and what legacy they want to leave behind. …

COME ON, NORA. Even if everyone in your life didn't tell you not to mess with time, I know the concept of spoilers still exists in the future!

But anyway, I hope Cisco gets a part in this 'legacy' theme. (I don't know if I believe them when they say everyone will explore the theme.)

 

Quote

We [also] have a new version of Harrison Wells again this year. Harrison Sherloque Wells. He’s French, and like his name suggests, he’s a master detective who’s come to help them track down this season’s big bad. He also motivates Ralph Dibny to put his PI hat back on, so we get to see these two out in the field a lot and see who’s got the best detective chops.”

::deep sigh::

[Trini]

From the Heroes & Villains Fanfest panel with Candice and Hartley: spoiler and spoiler-ish bits:

• Iris gets to be more of a journalist,
• Ralph gets to be a detective again,
• According to Candice: Season 5 (so far - they're up to episode 5.06) will have "a lot of WestAllen, Barry and Nora" and them figuring out their relationship with Nora. Nora "is not too keen on her mother" (reasons to be revealed later), and there's "a very contentious mother-daughter relationship."
• Candice: Barry and Iris are working to keep their relationship "happy and healthy", but "there are ups and downs" with Nora. "One minute she's not happy with" Iris, and "another minute she's not happy with her father".
• Candice: Iris' journalism isn't a main story for the season; but it will be related to the cases of the week. Every episode so far has Iris doing something to help. Iris will be working independently (so not back with CCPN). Hartley: [Iris' journalism] "is in there a good amount."
• Candice on Iris and Nora's relationship: "[Nora] is not a fan of Iris at all. The first 5 or 6 episodes are pretty tough for Iris and Nora. Nora idolizes her father." Later we'll "find out why; what she's been dealing with in the future", and why her relationships with her parents are the way they are. But "they are going to figure it out, sooner rather than later." There won't be a whole season of them not getting along.
• Hartley might have (accidentally) dropped that Ralph's comic love interest Sue is coming. He thinks [knows!] she will come in sooner rather than later.
• When asked if any old villains are coming back, Candice and Hartley said "yes."
• Hartley: Ralph's journey/arc will be different than last season. He's a "full member" of Team Flash. His personal life and dating will be explored.
• Ralph and Iris do "some crimefighting" together. (in episode 5.04 or 5.05??)
• Candice: From the scripts, this season is "all about family, and what family means to each character". Including the villains.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

I know the info about Nora/Iris is a little worrisome, but on the other hand, I think it's a good thing they're not glossing over the familial tension with a one-episode C-plot like they did with Iris and Joe, and Iris and Francine. We'll see how it turns out, but at least we know they will be exploring the relationship, and not just superficially.

We better at least have one episode set in the future. It seems like future events are going to be an important part of the season-long arc related to Nora, so they really should show us that.

 

I wish someone had asked about the 100th or the crossover, though.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Trini

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

I know the info about Nora/Iris is a little worrisome, but one the other hand, I think it's a good thing they're not glossing over the familial tension with a one-episode C-plot like they did with Iris and Joe, and Iris and Francine. We'll see how it turns out, but at least we know they will be exploring the relationship, and not just superficially.

We better at least have one episode set in the future. It seems like future events are going to be an important part of the season-long arc related to Nora, so they really should show us that.

 

I wish someone had asked about the 100th or the crossover, though.

I asked HS about the crossover when I spoke to him and he said they don't know much about it yet.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I know the info about Nora/Iris is a little worrisome, but on the other hand, I think it's a good thing they're not glossing over the familial tension with a one-episode C-plot like they did with Iris and Joe, and Iris and Francine. We'll see how it turns out, but at least we know they will be exploring the relationship, and not just superficially.

We better at least have one episode set in the future. It seems like future events are going to be an important part of the season-long arc related to Nora, so they really should show us that.

 

I wish someone had asked about the 100th or the crossover, though.

Oh yeah this is great.  /sarcasm.  The one time they don't gloss over drama it's for something this Iris hasn't even done since whatever is bothering Nora (who sounds slightly bratty - sorry not sorry) happened in the future.  So let's just beat up on Iris for something she hasn't even done yet for some fucked up "parity" in not glossing over issues.

I hope this show doesn't use Nora as a proxy for Iris-hate.

[Trini]

We'll see how it plays out. I do think there's going to be more to it than that. The theme this season is legacy/family, so I can see them starting out in a shaky place and then they can build upwards from there, becoming a stronger family unit; since this arc for the West-Allen family has to last the whole season. Candice also said people would like the West-Allen family dynamic.

Nora does seem a bit immature from the little we've seen of her so far; I think that's deliberate so that she can grow and learn by the end of the season.

I'm glad they'll have some focus on Nora/Iris. Now, it'd be great if we also had some Iris/Cecile and Iris/Joe scenes about parenting too!

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello:

Quote

Question: Where is The Flash‘s Nora going to live? –Aureola

Ausiello: “She kind of hops around. It’s fun,” showrunner Todd Helbing answers. “There are reasons why she stays where she stays that we sort of explore.”

LOL Okay, so we're getting another WestAllen foreplay interruption. But I would think that since Nora is grown, she'd be staying with Joe first, since he's got room at his house (plus she can babysit!). However, I can see Nora wanting to stay with her parents -- but that loft was made for two...

I don't believe Helbing when he says this is something that will be "explored". It's going to be 1 or 2 scenes (in however many episodes), tops. Plus, there's only Joe's house and the Loft for her to live; unless she's annoying enough to get sent to the STAR Labs' dorm...?

[Trini]

Season 5 spoiler round-up at ComicBook.com.

[Trini]

Season Premiere photos are out! Nora is indeed 'West-Allen', and the villain's name is 'Gridlock'. No episode description yet.

5.01 - "Nora":

I'm not sure what they're looking at...

[Trini]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!! ❤️????

CW also put out this family portrait; they're really patting themselves on the back with this casting:

 

Look at that; all ready for a frame and everything.

[VCRTracking]

It's "Jennifer Morrison being Josh Dallas and Ginnifer Goodwin's daughter on Once upon a Time"-level accurate casting.

Edited September 11, 2018 by VCRTracking

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Season Premiere photos are out! Nora is indeed 'West-Allen', and the villain's name is 'Gridlock'. No episode description yet.

5.01 - "Nora":

I'm not sure what they're looking at...

Great pics.

Ummmmm....why are Ralph and Caitlin at the scene? If I'm not mistaken, they should't have permission to be that close. Cisco should be the only one authorized to be there as he's a CCPD consultant.

[Trini]

TVLine now has this photo (in this gallery) labelled as 'Season 5 episode 2', so it's apparently not from the premiere:

[Starry]

The Westallen family pic reminded me that they have to take new pictures they can use for the show. It's a bit ridiculous that in their dramatic moments they still show the characters look at those ancient pics from s1.

[DearEvette]

19 hours ago, Trini said:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!! ❤️????

CW also put out this family portrait; they're really patting themselves on the back with this casting:

 

Look at that; all ready for a frame and everything.

They really should.  It is excellent casting.  I mentioned she looks like she could be their kid biologically back in when she first appeared in the crossover episode when we were all speculating who she was. 

Someone on twitter pointed out that JPK is actually older than Candice and Grant.  Which just tickles me.  I wonder what age Nora is supposed to be in this?  JPK has a pretty youthful face so she could believably play any age from late teens (19-ish) to mid-twenties.  But it would be a hoot if they played with the age thing so that Nora is either the same age or older than the 2018 version of her parents.  It helps that Candice and Grant also look younger than their bio ages.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Someone on twitter pointed out that JPK is actually older than Candice and Grant.  Which just tickles me.  I wonder what age Nora is supposed to be in this?  JPK has a pretty youthful face so she could believably play any age from late teens (19-ish) to mid-twenties.  But it would be a hoot if they played with the age thing so that Nora is either the same age or older than the 2018 version of her parents.  It helps that Candice and Grant also look younger than their bio ages.

Yeah, since the end of last season to Comic-Con, different people have said different things. I think it's safe to assume she's younger than Barry & Iris (29 yrs). However, they seem to be presenting Nora as immature, so might be early twenties I think.

[Trini]

Saw this pointed out elsewhere - Those Speed Force(?) symbols are also on Nora's suit:

 

I hope they give some explanation; it's literally been a whole season, and we don't know what that writing is about.

[Trini]

From the EW preview:

Quote

Cicada, the show’s second non-speedster big bad, is unlike any of the show’s previous final bosses, mostly due to his “unique” set of powers that poses a threat to all of Team Flash. “He can dampen other metahuman powers, and we don’t know at first how he’s able to do that. He’s got an edge that no other big bad has ever had. We don’t know who he is. He’s mysterious. He’s just kind of an intimidating, big scary man that can render pretty much all of these metahuman superheroes useless, more or less, in battle,” says Gustin. “He comes on really hard and fast the first time we meet him, so right away there’s an intimidation factor that’s through the roof, similar to Zoom.”

Adds Helbing, “The backstory that we created and sort of why he’s doing what he is doing this year is completely different, too. He’s more of a blue collar metahuman.”

So, finally more info on Cicada. His powers do differentiate him from the other season-long villains, but even that doesn't seem so intimidating to me. But the team shouldn't necessarily need powers to defeat him.

[Trini]

I just hope that they've thought out the pacing of Cicada's arc for the season. The villains usually start out well, it's the back half where everything fizzles out.

[Trini]

JPK's ET interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r96US7Bs6Uk

I'm annoyed they haven't paired up Cisco and Nora yet. (She said they're up episode 5.07) Why do they refuse to be great?? And she said they haven't done any future scenes yet.

[ruby24]

There has to be an episode this season set in the future, I mean that just seems obvious, right? It'll probably happen in the back half.

It'd be such a missed opportunity to not do that, and with the successful E2 episodes, etc, I just think one like that would be very likely. Still teasing a bit about the possible sibling. I hope they do introduce the twin brother at some point, that also seems like an obvious thing to happen. I just wonder if it will be Bart.

I'm kinda surprised they're actually having her name be West-Allen and not just Allen. Very progressive of them. Barry should hyphenate his own name at this point.

[Starry]

Barry is most likely dead in the future Nora comes from so I can see why they haven't considered doing such a special episode yet. Can't sideline the title character like that. Unless they do it as Barry time travels to the future a la 3x19. Or they flashforward to Iris' pregnancy and Nora's birth.

I think the sibling is a guarantee. I don't know if it's going to be a twin though. JPK is playing a combination of Dawn Allen and Jenni Ognats so I totally expect her sibling to be Bart Allen. Can't say I'm thrilled as they're missing an opportunity to tie it back to the Thawne family.

I'm excited about Barry/Nora but I fear Iris is going to be iced out, not just when it comes to interactions with her daughter but when it comes to WestAllen as well. That's despite what they're trying to sell with the posters and pics. Apparently Candice said fans are going to love WestAllen + Nora so I guess I have to hope for the best. I really don't want Iris to be relegated to STAR Labs group scenes. That's my nightmare.

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, Starry said:

Barry is most likely dead in the future Nora comes from so I can see why they haven't considered doing such a special episode yet. Can't sideline the title character like that. Unless they do it as Barry time travels to the future a la 3x19. Or they flashforward to Iris' pregnancy and Nora's birth.

I think the sibling is a guarantee. I don't know if it's going to be a twin though. JPK is playing a combination of Dawn Allen and Jenni Ognats so I totally expect her sibling to be Bart Allen. Can't say I'm thrilled as they're missing an opportunity to tie it back to the Thawne family.

I'm excited about Barry/Nora but I fear Iris is going to be iced out, not just when it comes to interactions with her daughter but when it comes to WestAllen as well. That's despite what they're trying to sell with the posters and pics. Apparently Candice said fans are going to love WestAllen + Nora so I guess I have to hope for the best. I really don't want Iris to be relegated to STAR Labs group scenes. That's my nightmare.

Based on what I've heard and seen in spoilers, your nightmare is probably going to be reality.  Come on - this is The Flash and the writers love to sideline Iris.  I see Nora taking up most of Iris' screentime, while Caitlin's remains the same.  So Iris will probably end up looking like in Season 2A.  It's absolutely deplorable (I use that word on purpose) that the female lead of the show has to fight to barely keep up with the tertiary character of Cait/KF.  

I'm so sick of this mess.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

So, finally more info on Cicada. His powers do differentiate him from the other season-long villains, but even that doesn't seem so intimidating to me. But the team shouldn't necessarily need powers to defeat him.

Especially since they know plenty of unpowered heroes who can kick ass.  I hear that Oliver has plenty of spare time on his hands these days and Barry has some experience with busting people out of prison.

In that EW interview GG says that this season is going to be very similar to season 1 in terms of overall feel.  Hasn't this been the (failed) refrain since season 3?  Season 1 had a fantastic big bad, some entertaining guest stars, a Barry who wasn't repeatedly acting like a selfish asshole, and a bunch of episodes that didn't end with the team bemoaning yet another loss.  They seem incapable of catching lightning in a bottle twice.

[ruby24]

They have been trying to recapture that for a while. He says the presence of Nora brings out the more bubbly Barry though, so maybe that does work in their favor.

[DearEvette]

I believe they've never been able to recapture what made S1 so good because they've created no other antagonist other than Thawne that has had good motivation for their actions.  I will always believe, if you give your villain a motivation that the audience can at least understand (if not agree with) then you've laid a great story foundation.  The other part is to write the plot to fit the characters  -- not the other way around. And finally cast an actor that the audience can sell it all.

Thawne's motivation in S1 was great.  He came back to change time and beat Barry.  But something went wrong and he got stuck here and really wanted to get back home.  His main focus was getting back home, he was wiling to do anything to get back home.  When all was said and done, you can look back at the season and see all the steps, all the decisions Thawne/Wells made. And they made sense.  Also Tom Cavanaugh & Matt Letcsher were perfect as the dual Thawnes: Cavanaugh as the  who had to wear the mask and create the subterfuge to make his plan work and Letscher as the Thawne with the gloves off who finally revealed himself when he no longer had to hide.

Meanwhile S2 Zoom's motivations were all over the place.  First he was sending just meta-humans to kill Barry. Why?  I think it was a 'There can be only one!' Highlander thing only for speedsters?  Then with no explanation he needed Barry's speed so no more killing Barry, just keep kidnapping people to get his speed.  And then?  He just wanted to the rule world because he had grown up in an orphanage where they gave him electroshock therapy?  And while Teddy Sears is a nice looking man, his Zoom had all the charisma of a potato.

S3 had Savitar.  Which turned out to bean evil version of  Barry himself and his big motivation was... nobody on the team liked me anymore so now I am so bitter I have to become a God?  Yeah.  No.

S4 DaVoe had the potential to be just as good as Thawne.  He and Marlize had chemistry to burn.  And Neil Sandilands were excellent.  The set up was perfect.  But then they bungle it all up with his motivation:  He just wanted everybody to be dumb?  Even worse, his need to first create and then steal the powers of 12 metas was so ridiculous that even Bond villains with their overly elaborate plants would be like "dude that is just too extra."

[BeautifulFlower]

23 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I believe they've never been able to recapture what made S1 so good because they've created no other antagonist other than Thawne that has had good motivation for their actions.  I will always believe, if you give your villain a motivation that the audience can at least understand (if not agree with) then you've laid a great story foundation.  The other part is to write the plot to fit the characters  -- not the other way around. And finally cast an actor that the audience can sell it all.

Thawne's motivation in S1 was great.  He came back to change time and beat Barry.  But something went wrong and he got stuck here and really wanted to get back home.  His main focus was getting back home, he was wiling to do anything to get back home.  When all was said and done, you can look back at the season and see all the steps, all the decisions Thawne/Wells made. And they made sense.  Also Tom Cavanaugh & Matt Letcsher were perfect as the dual Thawnes: Cavanaugh as the  who had to wear the mask and create the subterfuge to make his plan work and Letscher as the Thawne with the gloves off who finally revealed himself when he no longer had to hide.

Meanwhile S2 Zoom's motivations were all over the place.  First he was sending just meta-humans to kill Barry. Why?  I think it was a 'There can be only one!' Highlander thing only for speedsters?  Then with no explanation he needed Barry's speed so no more killing Barry, just keep kidnapping people to get his speed.  And then?  He just wanted to the rule world because he had grown up in an orphanage where they gave him electroshock therapy?  And while Teddy Sears is a nice looking man, his Zoom had all the charisma of a potato.

S3 had Savitar.  Which turned out to bean evil version of  Barry himself and his big motivation was... nobody on the team liked me anymore so now I am so bitter I have to become a God?  Yeah.  No.

S4 DaVoe had the potential to be just as good as Thawne.  He and Marlize had chemistry to burn.  And Neil Sandilands were excellent.  The set up was perfect.  But then they bungle it all up with his motivation:  He just wanted everybody to be dumb?  Even worse, his need to first create and then steal the powers of 12 metas was so ridiculous that even Bond villains with their overly elaborate plants would be like "dude that is just too extra."

Honestly, Thawne was easy for them to write as Eobard Thawne is a famous nemesis for Barry Allen.  They had stories from the comic to adapt on screen.

Zoom, Savitar, and The Thinker are Wally's villains. Their story is tied to Wally, so I think it was hard for them to adapt these villains into Barry's villains.

 

Now that I think about it, any character that has ZERO to do with Barry in the comics is hard to write for.

Joe West- original character, When is the last time this man had an arc?

Cisco Ramon- not in The Flash comics. Hasn't had an arc in forever. No character development since the beginning. He still is the tech guy and comic relief.

Wells- original character. Tom was Eobard in season, but that was his only purpose on this show.  The show keeps creating different Wells just to keep this man on the show and serve a purpose.

Caitlin - not in The Flash comics. She doesn't really serve a purpose as Barry doesn't need a doctor. No character development at all. She was mostly treated as the show's science exposition person and doctor. Her story keeps getting retcon.

 

So yeah, if the character has nothing to do with Barry in the comics, they are hard to write for.

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Honestly, Thawne was easy for them to write as Eobard Thawne is a famous nemesis for Barry Allen.  They had stories from the comic to adapt on screen.

Zoom, Savitar, and The Thinker are Wally's villains. Their story is tied to Wally, so I think it was hard for them to adapt these villains into Barry's villains.

 

Now that I think about it, any character that has ZERO to do with Barry in the comics is hard to write for.

Joe West- original character, When is the last time this man had an arc?

Cisco Ramon- not in The Flash comics. Hasn't had an arc in forever. No character development since the beginning. He still is the tech guy and comic relief.

Wells- original character. Tom was Eobard in season, but that was his only purpose on this show.  The show keeps creating different Wells just to keep this man on the show and serve a purpose.

Caitlin - not in The Flash comics. She doesn't really serve a purpose as Barry doesn't need a doctor. No character development at all. She was mostly treated as the show's science exposition person and doctor. Her story keeps getting retcon.

 

So yeah, if the character has nothing to do with Barry in the comics, they are hard to write for.

I would agree except that they seen to have the same problem with Iris. 

So I'm thinking the writers are just bad.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, SevenStars said:

I would agree except that they seen to have the same problem with Iris. 

So I'm thinking the writers are just bad.

I have to disagree. Who was in charge of the writing? AJK. That man was never interested in doing a story for Iris. How many times did he kept saying to Iris fans that she was going to have a journalism arc, but it never happened. They literally got rid of CCPN in season 4. Candice didn't even know if Iris was still a reporter during season 4. The writers can't just write something for Iris unless it was approved.

Season 5 will be a fresh start for Iris. So, I'm not going to judge until then. The only thing I will judge them on is turning her into the strong black woman trope.

[Trini]

Central City billboard:

[Trini]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:23 PM, Trini said:

JPK's ET interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r96US7Bs6Uk

They always put Barry's relationships above anyone else's, so it's expected that there'll be more Barry/Nora than Iris/Nora. Disappointing,  but expected. However, it's still ridiculous that the little time we have with Iris and Nora will be 'contentious'. Are they really going to go into the 100th with Nora still upset at Iris? COME ON.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 8:02 PM, ruby24 said:

There has to be an episode this season set in the future, I mean that just seems obvious, right? It'll probably happen in the back half.

It'd be such a missed opportunity to not do that, and with the successful E2 episodes, etc, I just think one like that would be very likely. ...

It does seem obvious, doesn't it? But this is the show that tends to look Greatness in eye, slap it in the face, and then run in the opposite direction, so.... We'll see if they wise up by the time they need some filler episodes.

 

21 hours ago, Starry said:

Barry is most likely dead in the future Nora comes from so I can see why they haven't considered doing such a special episode yet. Can't sideline the title character like that. Unless they do it as Barry time travels to the future a la 3x19. Or they flashforward to Iris' pregnancy and Nora's birth.

I think they can still do it. Showing the future/Nora's timeline doesn't necessarily mean sidelining Barry. It doesn't have to be an entire episode; and maybe he actually is there for a time with Nora. We don't know yet how soon he dies/disappears. Plus, they've done 'Barry-lite' episodes before. I'm sure Grant would be grateful.

 

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

In that EW interview GG says that this season is going to be very similar to season 1 in terms of overall feel.  Hasn't this been the (failed) refrain since season 3?  Season 1 had a fantastic big bad, some entertaining guest stars, a Barry who wasn't repeatedly acting like a selfish asshole, and a bunch of episodes that didn't end with the team bemoaning yet another loss.  They seem incapable of catching lightning in a bottle twice.

13 hours ago, ruby24 said:

They have been trying to recapture that for a while. He says the presence of Nora brings out the more bubbly Barry though, so maybe that does work in their favor.

The show's probably never going to get back to it's Season 1 glory (most shows never do). But it seems like Nora will have a similar energy that Barry had in the first season. And then instead of Barry/Joe as a key parental relationship, it'll be Nora/Barry.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Trini
Changed wrong name

[Katsullivan]

18 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I believe they've never been able to recapture what made S1 so good because they've created no other antagonist other than Thawne that has had good motivation for their actions.  I will always believe, if you give your villain a motivation that the audience can at least understand (if not agree with) then you've laid a great story foundation.  The other part is to write the plot to fit the characters  -- not the other way around. And finally cast an actor that the audience can sell it all.

 

I think S1 had a good villain that helped, but I also think ---- and no one's going to like it --- that a big hang up this show has is pushing racism, both from the audience and from their own internal biases. There is far too much effort made to sideline important characters (Iris, Wally, and even Joe to some extent) and prop up tertiary characters whose only relevance is being White. The whole "center the stories in Star Labs" is part of the racism agenda, because it's a good excuse to cut off stories from Iris and Joe. The whole "STEM intelligence is the only intelligence that counts" is part of this, and it's also why Wally - an engineering major -  carries the idiot ball for most of the show. (Check out who carries the idiot ball, who asks the "say it in English please". I guarantee you that it's not the melanin-deficient.)

The show plucks out its eye over and over again. You see it when Wally West is written off in season 4, and his role/significance is given to Ralph and Ralph ends up eating the show because that's a shiny new white character that can be written for without any "black" baggage. You see it in season 3B - where Iris's death is teased as a treat with every season starter (in fact, I believe that Iris's death is the first time we see a significant portion of Iris in the "My name is Barry Allen..." intro), and where Caitlin was given an "equally" important storyline (and we know this because Iris said so) that was handled badly because even when the show wants to prop Caitlin at Iris's expense by writing her a villain act ---- they still have to uphold White Female Purity by taking away her accountability. It's why Iris was the least significant character in a plotline revolving her death.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Katsullivan

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

They must know people are asking about this: 'The Flash Family 'Reunion' Mystery: Why Will Nora Be Chilly to Her Mom?' -- more quotes from Candice and Jessica.

Pretty much the same things that Candice and Jessica have saying since Comic-Con, although Candice spills a tiny bit more about how it effects Barry & Iris as a couple:

Quote

“It’s really hard,” said Patton. “It’s really hard [for Iris] to see Nora idolize her father, while wanting to spend every waking moment with her” — to the extent that “it’s a point of contention for her and Barry. She feels a little jealous, but at the same time really confused, and yet also happy for Barry, so….”

I know feelings aren't always (or ever!) logical, but Nora does realize that this Iris is 20+ years younger, and NOT the same woman that is her parent in the future, right? How immature are they making her? Not that she should mess with the timeline even more, but being stuck here is an opportunity to improve her future relationship with her mother.

I'm assuming the show will get them to that point eventually, but drawing out for 6-7 episodes might be a mistake.

-------

I'm really concerned that we've haven't heard anything about Joe and Cecile. Even if they don't really have any multi-episode arcs, I would have thought we'd hear that Barry and/or Iris go to them  for parenting advice. I don't recall anyone mentioning that.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Trini

[ruby24]

Yeah, I don't know about drawing something like that out too long. I know they usually get rid of conflict too quickly, within like one episode, but dragging it out for 6 or 7 is also bad. Isn't there a sweet spot of 3-4 episodes maybe? 

Dragging out some sort of mystery problem between Nora and her mom over the season in general seems like too much, especially if we're not going to be finding out what the problem is for a long time. 

Seems like something that could make Iris miserable for too long (whenever any character on this show is miserable for too long, whether it's Barry, Cisco, Iris, etc, people just don't like it). Hmmm.

[Trini]

Season premiere description:

Quote

“Nora” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

GETTING RID OF EXCESS — After an unexpected guest from the future, Nora West-Allen (Jessica Parker Kennedy), appears at their home, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton,) must figure out how to get her back to the future without disrupting the timeline…even more than she already has. Team Flash must work together to send Nora back, while simultaneously fighting off another villainous meta.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Sam Chalsen (#501)

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Team Flash must work together to send Nora back, while simultaneously fighting off another villainous meta.

Please please let it be a Star Labs explosion meta, and not a 'bus meta'.

[BeautifulFlower]

59 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Please please let it be a Star Labs explosion meta, and not a 'bus meta'.

All the bus metas are dead except Ralph

[Trini]

Quote

“Nora” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

GETTING RID OF EXCESS — After an unexpected guest from the future, Nora West-Allen (Jessica Parker Kennedy), appears at their home, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton,) must figure out how to get her back to the future without disrupting the timeline…even more than she already has. Team Flash must work together to send Nora back, while simultaneously fighting off another villainous meta.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Sam Chalsen (#501)

I'm disappointed it's Helbing/Chalsen; I was hoping that Helbing/Wallace would write the premiere. (They did last time.)

[ottoDbusdriver]

14 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

All the bus metas are dead except Ralph

Or are they ??  Mwah ha ha ha !!!  

I'm still convinced that somehow DeVoe will show up again.

[Kate45]

16 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Or are they ??  Mwah ha ha ha !!!  

I'm still convinced that somehow DeVoe will show up again.

Actually, did we get confirmation that The Weeper is dead? He’s the only other one who I thought might still be alive. 

On 9/21/2018 at 1:25 PM, Trini said:

I'm disappointed it's Helbing/Chalsen; I was hoping that Helbing/Wallace would write the premiere. (They did last time.)

I’m glad to know I not the only one disappointed! I think Wallace might be writing episodes alone. Didn’t Helbing/Wallace write the finale? I might be wrong about that.

[Maverick]

3 hours ago, Kate45 said:

Actually, did we get confirmation that The Weeper is dead? He’s the only other one who I thought might still be alive. 

 

 Yes Devoe was seen crying a tear to lace Marlize's drink and pull her back in when she started to doubt him.  

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Kate45 said:

Didn’t Helbing/Wallace write the finale? I might be wrong about that.

They did. So I was thinking they'd follow up with the premiere, but I guess not.

[Trini]

 

I don't mind more Cisco/Caitlin friendship development, but I wish Cisco had his own arc this season.

[Trini]

I know that there are some other set pics of the new Flash suit out there, but here's another, closer look at the new suit.

I can see why there isn't a chin strap, with the new materials and new design/construction, they would have to glue it to Grant's face. Now the "cowl" is in two parts; a hood that's attached to the suit, and mask/helmet fits on top of his head. I need to see what the back looks like.

[Kate45]

On 9/22/2018 at 7:06 PM, Maverick said:

 Yes Devoe was seen crying a tear to lace Marlize's drink and pull her back in when she started to doubt him.  

I seem to recall DeVoe putting a tear in Marlize’s drink, but it came out of a bottle, not DeVoe himself. 

I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember. 

In season 3, they never found the last husk or explained what happened to that meta. Unless it will be Cicada! Lol.

On 9/22/2018 at 8:23 PM, Trini said:

They did. So I was thinking they'd follow up with the premiere, but I guess not.

Hmm, maybe they are writing the 100th episode together? Or the crossover? I hope so!

[BeautifulFlower]

https://tvline.com/2018/09/25/chicago-med-colin-donnell-leaving-connor-rhodes-season-4/

Quote

Question: The Flash‘s 100th episode is coming up this year. Is there anything special planned? –Ashley

Details are still scarce, but it sounds like there will be a basketful of Easter egg-y callbacks. “It’s a big thing to get the opportunity to make 100 episodes of television, so you want to pay back the fans for tuning in, and give them some old faces to look at,” says showrunner Todd Helbing. “The mythology of the season will still be part of the 100th,” but in addition, “You should see some people that you’ve seen in the past.”

[Trini]

This probably only spoils outfits and not any plot, but I'm putting it here - Some of the cast of the Book of Mormon show that's on tour came for a set visit:

 

This is probably for Episode 5.08.

 

And another cast member posted a closer look at the new cowl/helmet:

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, Trini said:

This probably only spoils outfits and not any plot, but I'm putting it here - Some of the cast of the Book of Mormon show that's on tour came for a set visit:

 

This is probably for Episode 5.08.

 

And another cast member posted a closer look at the new cowl/helmet:

Nope. They started production of 508 today

[Trini]

Episode 5.02 description:

Quote

"Blocked" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

CHRIS KLEIN JOINS "THE FLASH" - As Barry (Grant Gustin) helps his daughter, Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy), become a better speedster, he and Team Flash also track down a meta stealing high-tech weapons, only to cross paths with a new foe named Cicada (Chris Klein), who is hunting the very same meta with nefarious intent.

Kim Miles directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Judalina Neira
(#502). Original airdate 10/16/2018

 

Wallace/Neira is promising. Wondering/dreading how they plan to stretch out Cicada for the whole season.

[mj2000]

I'm gonna get rocks thrown at me for this, but here goes....

I'm not seeing at all that Iris has been side-lined for anyone. In fact, other than Barry, she has been/is a central character. Iris has always been Barry's main focus. We have seen...

 

Iris and Barry's friendship played out complete with numerous flashbacks. Not to mention the development of their romantic relationship.

Iris and Joe's relationship

Iris and Eddy's relationship

Iris and her mother's relationship

Iris and Wally's relationship....even in Flashpoint

Iris getting mad when she discovered that Barry was the Flash and Joe knew about it. But it was OK for her to keep Wally's existence a secret from Joe for weeks.

Iris's jealous reactions when Barry dated Linda and Patty.

Basically all of season 3 dedicated to Iris and her impending death by Savitar. Not to mention the team risking their lives to save her and HR actually dying for her.

S4 Ep1 features Iris as the team leader acting about as cold as Killer Frost to those around her. Doing her "tough as nails" routine all the while turning her and Barry's picture over and sleeping on the couch. 

If it wasn't for the dynamic of Nora now turning up, I would be perfectly happy if Iris went back to CCPN and was hardly seen for a while.

 

I see no issue with giving other team members stories. I am invested in Caitlin/Killer Frost. Since she was written as having powers, I see no problem in exploring them or her background/family dynamic. Caitlin isnt even allowed to have a steady love interest. They have either died, turned out to be evil, or written as leaving the country.

 

We were even given family issues with Cisco and his brother. We saw his relationship with Gypsy. But again, it seems as if Cisco is another that isn't allowed to have a love interest.

 

Instead we are consistently treated to the love saga of Barry/Iris. That seems to be the main one allowed with the exception of Joe/Cecile.