Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

8 hours ago, mj2000 said:

I'm gonna get rocks thrown at me for this, but here goes....

I'm not seeing at all that Iris has been side-lined for anyone. In fact, other than Barry, she has been/is a central character. Iris has always been Barry's main focus. We have seen...

 

This has nothing to do with spoilers, so I'll answer in the Iris topic.

[adora721]

15 hours ago, mj2000 said:

S4 Ep1 features Iris as the team leader acting about as cold as Killer Frost to those around her

No rocks to throw, but I disagree on almost all your points. No one has been as cold as Killer Frost. Iris never tried to murder her friends or aided in the murder of anyone as Killer Frost did. And when Iris reached out to KF in friendship, KF threatened to freeze Iris' arm off before her wedding.  You may be exaggerating, but this is a false equivalency.

15 hours ago, mj2000 said:

I see no issue with giving other team members stories. I am invested in Caitlin/Killer Frost. Since she was written as having powers, I see no problem in exploring them or her background/family dynamic. Caitlin isnt even allowed to have a steady love interest. They have either died, turned out to be evil, or written as leaving the country.

I'd love to have Caitlin and Killer Frost be redeemed for all the selfish, evil acts they did and haven't paid for or apologized for, and I'd love for her story to make sense, even for a comic book show. I'd like to like Caitlin again.

As for Caitlin being "allowed to have a steady love interest", take that up with Danielle Panabaker. Danielle asked the producers to stop giving her a love interest:

• S4:  "So according to Sawyer, there initially were discussions about linking Caitlin to Ralph, but Panabaker quickly decided against it. "Immediately all of us talked about that, Sawyer revealed. "And we're like 'No' – she [Panabaker] put the kibosh on it quicker than anybody. She was like, 'No, I'm not doing that'."

• S3: "All of these are things I expressed for a long time. Season 3 in particular, I couldn’t believe they were giving me another love interest. I remember calling Todd Helbing and being like, ‘Are you serious? Is this what’s happening right now?’”

Edited October 1, 2018 by adora721

[Trini]

Hypable's annual 'we got a screener' premiere teases: https://www.hypable.com/the-flash-5x01-teasers/

[Trini]

Another 'we got a screener!' review: https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/flash-season-5-review/

[Trini]

5.03 description:

Quote

"The Death of Vibe"

CICADA TARGETS A MEMBER OF TEAM FLASH - After Cicada's (Chris Klein) attack on The Flash (Grant Gustin), the team realizes they need to think outside the box to stop this dangerous new foe. Desperate to help her parents, Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) comes up with a plan that ultimately puts a member of Team Flash in danger. Meanwhile, Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) delves into her past.

Andi Armaganian directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza
(#503). Original airdate 10/23/2018

---

Hmm -- Nora is wants to help Barry & Iris with what?

And with that title, the team member in danger has to be Cisco, but they don't mention that in the synopsis. I really hope they don't take away his powers - or at least not permanently. I figure they want to tone down some powers so that they have an excuse not to solve problems in 2 seconds, but I think it would be terrible for Cisco in general; and then he'll probably get even more sidelined/stuck in STAR Labs.

I know they're going to want to establish that Cicada is dangerous, but I hope we don't get another parade of metahuman deaths.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I figure they want to tone down some powers so that they have an excuse not to solve problems in 2 seconds, but I think it would be terrible for Cisco in general; and then he'll probably get even more sidelined/stuck in STAR Labs.

They don't even do that now. To make the problem last for 42 minutes (also save money on effects), they always knock someone out. Whether it's Barry, Vibe, or even killer Frost. Honestly, it has me questioning why have these other powered people be apart of the main cast. Cisco and Caitlin are not even developed beyond Star Labs. Their roles have not changed since the beginning. Also, again, having more metas on the team took away Barry being special.

[Trini]

Monday's DC Daily video mentions that Ralph is having memory problems in the premiere; so maybe DeVoe taking over his body will have unanticipated/longer-lasting effects?

[Trini]

On 10/7/2018 at 8:20 PM, BeautifulFlower said:

... Cisco and Caitlin are not even developed beyond Star Labs. Their roles have not changed since the beginning. ...

I'd say they they've both had some development, but Cisco's has been much more successful than Caitlin's, for several reasons that I'm too tired to get into right now.

----------

But speaking of Cisco and Caitlin, the photos for 5.02, "Blocked" are out and ...

*GASP*

Could this be the year they make KillerVibe romantic?? -- I know that's most likely NOT what's happening in whatever scene this is from the episode, but they sure framed this to look exactly like a date.

[ruby24]

They'll never do that. But I ALWAYS thought they should have, from the very beginning. That could have easily been a slow burn, will they/won't they subplot that could have run on for years and given both of them a little more to do on the side.

I think the reason they didn't was because Caitlin's white and they didn't want to pair her up with a non-white man. So irritating, but I'm convinced that was why.

[Starry]

As I soon as I saw that still I thought about the WestAllen one from 1x12. Barry and Iris were also holding hands across the table. It's interesting that WestAllen and KillerVibe have these displays of affection that in any other case would be seen as shipping material but fandom ( and in the case of KillerVibe the showrunners as well ) paint them with the 'siblings' brush. Barry & Caitlin and Barry & Kara have mundane conversations where they discuss their other love interests or have one-armed buddy hugs and they immediately see 'chemistry' and 'potential'. I guess it's a good thing I don't care for Caitlin right now because I'm back being bitter.

[benteen]

I haven't been reading the spoiler threat but are Barry and company once again responsible for releasing this season's threat upon Central City?

[Trini]

Episode 5.04 description:

Quote

"News Flash" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

NORA IS TARGETED BY A DANGEROUS META - Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) face the ultimate parenting test when Team Flash battles Spin (guest star Kiana Madeira), a savvy millennial armed with meta tech, and a dangerous agenda for their daughter, Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy). Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) is feeling defeated until an unlikely source issues a challenge to help boost his confidence.

Brent Crowell directed the episode written by Kelly Wheeler & Lauren Certo

(#504). Original airdate 10/30/2018.

Kelly Wheeler is a new writer for this season.

------

Sounds like another West-Allen family focused episode.

So this is the intro for Spin, who was announced as recurring. From the casting announcement:

Quote

Madeira’s Spencer Young (aka Spin) is a young aspiring social media influencer who seizes the opportunity to make herself famous when she discovers there is a new hero in Central City.

I had seen some speculation that Spin might not necessarily be a villain, but it looks like that is how they're presenting her. And it says "meta tech"  - is she a metahuman or not?

 

Quote

Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) is feeling defeated until an unlikely source issues a challenge to help boost his confidence.

I'm guessing this is the entrance of the new Wells.  ::SIGH::

[adora721]

The Flash's Candice Patton: Iris and Nora 'Get On a Really Great Path,' Following That Rough Start

 

https://tvline.com/2018/10/15/flash-season-5-spoilers-candice-patton-iris-nora-tensions-bonding/

Edited October 15, 2018 by adora721

[adora721]

Pics from "Death of Vibe":

Edited October 16, 2018 by adora721

[Trini]

Looks like this episode starts where 5.02 leaves off; Iris is wearing the same outfit, I'm pretty sure. And I think they're all looking at Nora here?

[Katsullivan]

14 hours ago, adora721 said:

The Flash's Candice Patton: Iris and Nora 'Get On a Really Great Path,' Following That Rough Start

 

https://tvline.com/2018/10/15/flash-season-5-spoilers-candice-patton-iris-nora-tensions-bonding/

Well that's a relief, frankly because a poster on the episode thread came up with this wild theory of Iris trying to remove the speedster gene from Nora, and I won't trust the writers not to go there, honestly. It'll be a perfect way to write Iris as a villain and claim it doesn't "count" since that timeline will be erased.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Well that's a relief, frankly because a poster on the episode thread came up with this wild theory of Iris trying to remove the speedster gene from Nora

But Iris doesn't know science! Isn't that the constant dig they take at Iris? That she's no scientist. How in the world would she remove the gene?

[ursula]

5 hours ago, adora721 said:

9 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Well that's a relief, frankly because a poster on the episode thread came up with this wild theory of Iris trying to remove the speedster gene from Nora, and I won't trust the writers not to go there, honestly. It'll be a perfect way to write Iris as a villain and claim it doesn't "count" since that timeline will be erased.

But Iris doesn't know science! Isn't that the constant dig they take at Iris? That she's no scientist. How in the world would she remove the gene?

????As the poster in question, I think this is hilarious. I was thinking more in the vein of Iris recruiting Caitlin, or Cisco to do this, than her coming up with the know-how herself. 

(Although it's sad to say, but I think if this were to happen, I don't think it would, but if it were ---- then 100% would rest on Iris, and everyone will overlook Caitlin's or Cisco's part in it.)

[TheMasterReborn]

Someone made a video on YouTube in which they made the suggestion of Nora actually being Thawne from the future, before he became evil.   Though I'm sure she will still turn out to be Barry & Iris' daughter from the future a lot of things do add up that Nora could be Thawne in disguise.  Maybe Thawne used that device he used on the original Wells.  Anyways, the idea isn't likely, but I did find it interest.  Might explain her distance to Iris.  Also Barry using Thawne's phasing speech & Nora looking at the picture of Thawne/Wells with Barry. 

From Wikipedia

***Eobard Thawne found a time capsule in the 25th century containing a costume of the Flash (Barry Allen) and with a Tachyon device amplified the suit's speed energy, giving himself speedster abilities. Eobard was once a scientist obsessed with the Flash, even undergoing cosmetic surgery to resemble his hero. Obtaining the Cosmic Treadmill from an antique shop, Eobard gained all of the Flash's powers after replicating the electrochemical accident that created Flash. Seeking to use the Cosmic Treadmill to travel back in time and meet his idol, Eobard arrived at the Flash Museum several years after Barry's death, discovering that he was destined to become "Professor Zoom" (aka the "Reverse-Flash") and die at his idol's hands. As a result, the unstable Eobard convinced himself that he was Barry and subsequently attacked Central City for "forgetting him". ***

Edited October 17, 2018 by TheMasterReborn

[adora721]

1 hour ago, TheMasterReborn said:

Someone made a video on YouTube in which they made the suggestion of Nora actually being Thawne from the future, before he became evil.   Though I'm sure she will still turn out to be Barry & Iris' daughter from the future a lot of things do add up that Nora could be Thawne in disguise.  Maybe Thawne used that device he used on the original Wells.  Anyways, the idea isn't likely, but I did find it interest.  Might explain her distance to Iris.  Also Barry using Thawne's phasing speech & Nora looking at the picture of Thawne/Wells with Barry. 

 

Who made the video? It may be an Iris hater or a SnowBarry fan. Such people would say anything and posit any theory that erases Barry and Iris' connection in the form of an offspring.  I do agree that Nora's enthusiasm and behavior have some similarities to the Eobard story, but I don't think the writers/producers would have that twist occur on a season about family legacy or have Nora do the opening monologue if she was secretly Thawne. Besides, Candice Patton has done an interview in which she said her relationship with Nora would improve. Of course, nothing is impossible with these writers, but I suspect the chances are slim.

Edited October 17, 2018 by adora721

[Trini]

I know they're not going to kill off Cisco, but they may take away his powers - permanently? And that's the next worst thing, IMO. He's just getting over Cynthia, then this. And he was sidelined a bit last season, but he still had development from the first 3 seasons, and I'd hate to see that go away just because the writers are unimaginative and can't think of what to do with Cisco.

[legaleagle53]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:00 AM, adora721 said:

Who made the video? It may be an Iris hater or a SnowBarry fan. Such people would say anything and posit any theory that erases Barry and Iris' connection in the form of an offspring.  I do agree that Nora's enthusiasm and behavior have some similarities to the Eobard story, but I don't think the writers/producers would have that twist occur on a season about family legacy or have Nora do the opening monologue if she was secretly Thawne. Besides, Candice Patton has done an interview in which she said her relationship with Nora would improve. Of course, nothing is impossible with these writers, but I suspect the chances are slim.

They're also ignoring the fact that it is comic-book canon that Barry and Iris have speedster superhero children in the future, including a daughter. Granted, she has a different name in the comics, but she's still their daughter.

[Trini]

"Flashtime" preview:

 

Looks like Herr Wells(?) shows up again, in addition to the newest Wells, Sherloque; that environmentally conscious robber is back; Caitlin and Ralph are off in their own subplot; there's some fun in the Lab with Team West-Allen and Cisco; Cicada attacks at the West house and attacks Cisco.

[Trini]

Photos for 5.04, "News Flash" are out:

Baseball, the West-Allen family, and the new recurring character, Spin / Spencer Young:

 

Are the setting something up with Spencer/Spin and Nora? That doesn't seem to fit with the episode summary.

And I'm concerned about the lack of Joe and Cisco in these photos....

Edited October 23, 2018 by Trini

[Proteus]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Photos for 5.04, "News Flash" are out:

Baseball, the West-Allen family, and the new recurring character, Spin / Spencer Young:

 

Are the setting something up with Spencer/Spin and Nora? That doesn't seem to fit with the episode summary.

And I'm concerned about the lack of Joe and Cisco in these photos....

I was wondering the same about Spin & Nora. Maybe Spin starts out bad but changes.

Im worried about Jessie as well.

[Trini]

"We got a screener" teases from Hypable: https://www.hypable.com/the-flash-5x03-screener-secrets/

[tennisgurl]

My current theory, taking from the episode thread, is that Nora is an only child now, but with all the timeline changes, Iris will get pregnant with twins, and Nora will go back to her time with a brother, like in the comics. Hence the "we`re gonna need more diapers" line. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Or maybe Spencer is the real Nora, and the Nora we know so far is an impostor.  Dun, dun, dun, dun !!!

[Trini]

Episode 5.05 description:

Quote

“All Doll’d Up” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV)

BARRY AND IRIS TEAM UP TO STOP A DANGEROUS META NAMED RAG DOLL —Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) lets something slip about the future that devastates Iris (Candice Patton). In an attempt to distract his wife, Barry (Grant Gustin) asks Iris to team up to stop a new meta, Rag Doll (guest star Troy James). Meanwhile, Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) learns something about her father.

Phil Chipera directed the episode written by Thomas Pound & Sterling Gates
(#505). Original airdate 11/13/2018.
 

---

They had me at 'team up', then lost me a little at "devastates Iris".

[Trini]

Iris & Barry/Flash team ups are what we should have been seeing more of the entire time! I don't why TPTB love to shun greatness.

Anyway, looking forward to another West-Allen family A-plot.

Also, if Nora is here full time, then that gives the writers an opportunities to have Barry (/Barry & Iris) be off somewhere else while still being able to show speedster heroics with XS filling in for the The Flash.

[Primal Slayer]

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

TVLine reported on that, and added this bit:

Quote

Now, lest anyone think that Episode 100, directed by cast member Tom Cavanagh, is some out-of-time or dream/nightmare episode, new addition Chris Klein told TVLine on Friday that The Flash‘s current headache, Cicada, is also in the mix.

“It’s a really exciting one, a really fun, fun episode,” Cicada’s portrayer effused. “They definitely built in some bells and whistles for it!”

Which I don't think is actual info?... unless they're speculating off of something else he said that isn't quoted here. There could still be dream sequences or flashbacks/flashforwards with Cicada.

---

But anyway, I expect a bunch of past characters to show up in one way or another; but will they be the ones *I* want to see?

Edited October 28, 2018 by Trini

[Lady Calypso]

On 28/10/2018 at 2:38 AM, Trini said:

But anyway, I expect a bunch of past characters to show up in one way or another; but will they be the ones *I* want to see?

I'm still holding out hope on an Eddie cameo. 

[Proteus]

So I'm guessing it's Spin that Iris is saying flirted with their daughter:

[ruby24]

Huh, so maybe Nora is gay too.

[Trini]

Poor Iris and her poor breakfast making skills! But yay!! The loft!

Also it looks like Iris might shoot Nora (not sure what type of gun) because she's whammied??

[adora721]

This post has an interesting speculation about what Spin does: https://fallinginloveinaflash.tumblr.com/post/179583443592/hi-jess-hope-all-is-well-do-you-think-the-promo

[BeautifulFlower]

Iris sneak peek

I'm so glad Spin is a rival for Iris

[Trini]

Some teases from Chris Klein about Cicada:

Quote

There is going to be an origin episode, a few weeks down the line. But we are going to learn little tidbits moving forward.

...

Every villain has a reason for being, and Orlin’s is a pretty heavy one. This guy comes with a lot of sadness.

...

What I love about Orlin is he’s in it for a reason. It’s too soon to say if it’s the right reason or the wrong reason, but the reason is heavy. We were introduced to a little girl in a bed at the end of [Episode] 503, and we see Orlin kiss her forehead, and the one thing that I can tell you and the audience is that that little girl is going to be very, very, very important to our story moving forward. She is one to watch and learn about.

...

That dagger can do a lot more than just dampen metahuman powers. And another thing that you’re going to want to keep your eye on — it’s not just the dagger. That doctor in the hospital wanted to take a look at a scar on his chest…. Is he a human? Because if he’s a human, why was that thing glowing? What is that about? Now we know there’s something going on inside of him, and that’s going to play a big part in how difficult he is to capture.

...

We’re going to learn that there was a time in Orlin’s life that he is making up for. He made some promises that he is pretty keen on keeping.

At least for the immediate future, it seems they have things planned out for Cicada; and they've put some thought into making him a little different with his motivations.

If the Cicada origins episode is in the first half, I'm guessing it's 5.07.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

9 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Iris sneak peek

I'm so glad Spin is a rival for Iris

Yesssssssssss!
 

Also a clip of an entirely skippable scene if you're not into Ralph or Sherloque:

[Trini]

Hmmm.... I'm concerned about the lack of Joe and Cisco in the promo for tonight's episode. JLM has only been absent for one episode so far; and if Carlos doesn't have at least one scene, it'll be his first absence.

[ETA:] I was afraid Cisco might be sidelined, but I didn't think he'd be gone. :(

Edited October 30, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

It looks like Nora is MIA in 5.05, but Cisco's back:

 

and from the episode description:

Quote

Nora lets something slip about the future that devastates Iris. In an attempt to distract his wife, Barry asks Iris to team up to stop a new meta, Rag Doll.

So it's most likely not more news from Nora in this episode, just the fallout from 5.04.

[Maverick]

 So this is the episode with the guy from America's Got Talent.   Should be interesting.  

[Trini]

5 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 So this is the episode with the guy from America's Got Talent.   Should be interesting.  

On the surface, it looks a bit filler-ish.* Although, I'm sure they'll give a little more info on Cicada and advance Caitlin's plot.

 

*[I have no problem with 'filler' as long as it's *fun* or we learn something new and interesting about characters.]

[Trini]

Promo photos for 5.05, "All Doll’d Up":

A speedster child is in trouble...

But they make up later?

New sofa at Joe's house:

[Trini]

5.06 description:

Quote

“The Icicle Cometh” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

CAITLIN LEARNS SOMETHING NEW ABOUT HER FATHER — Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker), Barry (Grant Gustin) and Cisco (Carlos Valdes) learn something new about Caitlin’s father (guest star Kyle Secor). Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) and Sherloque (Tom Cavanagh) follow a clue about Cicada (Chris Klein).

Chris Peppe directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Joshua V. Gilbert
(#506). Original airdate 11/20/2018.

Caitlin gets to be the A-plot that week, I guess. Not thrilled about the West-Allen family being in two separate plots. On the other hand, it's rare to have Candice and Tom C. paired up.

Pretty 'meh' about these two writers in particular.

[ursula]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Pretty 'meh' about these two writers in particular.

Spill the tea. Are they Snowbarry fan(atics)?

[Trini]

I don't know about that, but just looking at the episodes they've done before makes me think it'll be a so-so episode, without good moments for the characters that I like the most. But we'll see.

[Kate45]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I don't know about that, but just looking at the episodes they've done before makes me think it'll be a so-so episode, without good moments for the characters that I like the most. But we'll see.

The only saving grace is that Kristen Kim said that her favorite character to write fornos Iris. While I don’t typically like what she writes for Iris, she does tend to give Iris a number of scenes in her episodes. I find that Iris is overly forgiving, boarderline a doormat in her episodes with Lauren (4x05, 4x10, 4x17). Wasn’t as much of an issue in 4x22, which was incidently the last time Iris and a Wells character were paired together. 

I actually liked the way she wrote Iris in 4x22 with Sam C. I just think Kristen and Lauren weren’t a good team. Both do much better with other people. I didn’t like 4x19 which I believe was written by Joshua and someone else who I can’t remember at the moment. 

12 hours ago, ursula said:

Spill the tea. Are they Snowbarry fan(atics)?

Thankfully, I think the SnowBarry writer fanatics are gone now. There was that one guy in season 3 and he was fired at the end of the season, along with most of the season 3 writers. Some argue that Judalina is one, but I question that belief. Most of the SnowBarry moments from her episodes were also in episodes written with AJK and I think he was the one to add that stuff in the episodes. 

[BeautifulFlower]

52 minutes ago, Kate45 said:

The only saving grace is that Kristen Kim said that her favorite character to write fornos Iris. While I don’t typically like what she writes for Iris, she does tend to give Iris a number of scenes in her episodes. I find that Iris is overly forgiving, boarderline a doormat in her episodes with Lauren (4x05, 4x10, 4x17). Wasn’t as much of an issue in 4x22, which was incidently the last time Iris and a Wells character were paired together. 

I actually liked the way she wrote Iris in 4x22 with Sam C. I just think Kristen and Lauren weren’t a good team. Both do much better with other people. I didn’t like 4x19 which I believe was written by Joshua and someone else who I can’t remember at the moment. 

Thankfully, I think the SnowBarry writer fanatics are gone now. There was that one guy in season 3 and he was fired at the end of the season, along with most of the season 3 writers. Some argue that Judalina is one, but I question that belief. Most of the SnowBarry moments from her episodes were also in episodes written with AJK and I think he was the one to add that stuff in the episodes. 

Based on 5x06 description and having seen 4x22, Kristen seems to pander to the Bring Back OTF crowd.