Small Talk: Judge's Chambers

[Spunkygal]

Happy 73rd birthday to my favorite judge! Sometimes you get it wrong, but often you get it right. I know I wouldn't want to stand before you and face the smackdown. That is why I've returned items that I've tooken, quit conversating with low-lifes, and no longer borrow money to family members who have no teeth. You'll get no kerfuffel from me! Thank you for letting us live in Your America!!

P.S. Judy, you ARE 5ft 10in in my eyes!!

Edited October 21, 2015 by Spunkygal

[AngelaHunter]

Happy 73rd birthday to my favorite judge! Sometimes you get it wrong, but often you get it right. I know I wouldn't want to stand before you and face the smackdown. That is why I've returned items that I've tooken, quit conversating with low-lifes, and no longer borrow money to family members who have no teeth. You'll get no kerfuffel from me! Thank you for letting us live in Your America!!

 

YES!!

 

I hope you've also paid your debts with your income tax refunds, haven't put some guy on your cell phone plan and don't have any warrants or multiple baby daddies.

[Spunkygal]

YES!!

 

I hope you've also paid your debts with your income tax refunds, haven't put some guy on your cell phone plan and don't have any warrants or multiple baby daddies.

In the interest of full disclosure, my dog may have bitten the mailman, but it was only because the mailman keyed my car and stole my valuable garden gnome.

[SandyToes]

Okay LAgator77, let's get this show on the road!  (And thanks!)  

 

How real are the people and cases we are likely to see on these types of shows? I know some shows are reenactments, but for those that feature "real" people - are they?

[LAgator77]

Okay LAgator77, let's get this show on the road!  (And thanks!)  

 

How real are the people and cases we are likely to see on these types of shows? I know some shows are reenactments, but for those that feature "real" people - are they?

As far as I know, Judge Judy is quite real. However, the shows I work on are of the not real variety. They also aren't reenactments of real court cases either. I believe the litigants are given outlines of fictional court cases, then we do 25 minutes of improv, and then the judge rules (this is not predetermined). I work on the production side, and I haven't really asked a lot of questions about that process, but that's just my observation. 

I think the producers I work with use cases that are "ripped from the headlines." Meaning I'll read some bizarre story on Drudge Report and 2 weeks later we're filming a case with a very similar story. 

Having worked on these shows for a few years, I think I can tell the difference between real and fake litigants and I have no reason to question Judge Judy's legitimacy. 

[NYCFree]

Happy 73rd birthday to my favorite judge! Sometimes you get it wrong, but often you get it right. I know I wouldn't want to stand before you and face the smackdown. That is why I've returned items that I've tooken, quit conversating with low-lifes, and no longer borrow money to family members who have no teeth. You'll get no kerfuffel from me! Thank you for letting us live in Your America!!

P.S. Judy, you ARE 5ft 10in in my eyes!!

Now I'll never forget Judge Judy's birthday as it is the same date as my almost fifteen month old Lab.

[SandyToes]

 

I think I can tell the difference between real and fake litigants and I have no reason to question Judge Judy's legitimacy.

 

I think this scares me quite a lot...

And thanks for the insight!

[teebax]

As far as I know, Judge Judy is quite real. However, the shows I work on are of the not real variety. They also aren't reenactments of real court cases either. I believe the litigants are given outlines of fictional court cases, then we do 25 minutes of improv, and then the judge rules (this is not predetermined). I work on the production side, and I haven't really asked a lot of questions about that process, but that's just my observation. 

I think the producers I work with use cases that are "ripped from the headlines." Meaning I'll read some bizarre story on Drudge Report and 2 weeks later we're filming a case with a very similar story. 

Having worked on these shows for a few years, I think I can tell the difference between real and fake litigants and I have no reason to question Judge Judy's legitimacy.

Is there a way for a layperson to be able to tell? There are a few I've seen that seem absolutely fake, but then there are so many crazy stories on JJ too, so I'm never quite sure.

Are the judges on the fake shows also fake judges? By that, I mean are they at least attorneys, or are they actors as well?

[AngelaHunter]

I think I can tell the difference between real and fake litigants and I have no reason to question Judge Judy's legitimacy.

 

 I think our brains can pick up little clues to tell us what's real and what's not.

 

I was at a friend's house and Divorce Court (which I had never watched) was on her TV. To me, it was plain nearly immediately that the couple were actors. They never mumbled, hesitated or used mangled English.They weren't bad actors, but clearly actors.

[bref]

What's amazing to me is the shows that use actors instead of real litigants--and I like to think I can usually tell this, too--how do they find so many halfway decent improv actors to fill out their shows? I mean, I realize you can't swing a cat in LA without hitting an aspiring performer, but improv is a very specific skill, and I agree, even without having LAgator's insight, that the way it appears is that the "litigants" are given not so much scripts to memorize as general facts of their "case" and then they're set loose to have at it. If that's true, they actually do a fairly impressive job IMO. It's clearly not entirely real, but doesn't seem completely fake either. That said, I don't enjoy anything but TPC and JJ precisely because those are real people, hard as it is to believe sometimes :)

 

As far as I know, being a "real judge" is common to all of the TV judges, although the level at which they served could be traffic court. I wonder how they feel about interacting with actors instead of "real people"?

[Guest]

I think the producers I work with use cases that are "ripped from the headlines." Meaning I'll read some bizarre story on Drudge Report and 2 weeks later we're filming a case with a very similar story.

THANK. YOU. I happened to catch an episode of "Justice for All" (a show I'd never even heard of!) with Christina Perez. On this episode, a couple were "suing" a veterinarian for not euthanizing their dog and, instead, rescuing it and keeping it for herself. It was so clear to me these people were acting and just making up shit as they went along I could barely believe the were attempting to present themselves as authentic. Now, mind you, there was a similar actual case of this happening near me not that long ago. So, it makes sense when LAGator says they use the "ripped from the headlines" approach to making shit up for entertainment purposes.

 

This is the reason I stick to watching JJ. If I wanted to watch fake fakery, I'd turn on Divorce Court, long known, as AngelaHunter mentioned for using actors. And I use that latter term very loosely.

[AngelaHunter]

I happened to catch an episode of "Justice for All" (a show I'd never even heard of!) with Christina Perez.

 

I've never seen that show, but it's impossible not to know about the most ridiculous, clownish display there, with the "Naked Cowboy." I find it impossible to believe this woman is a judge.

 

Here's  some of that ep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misWeKUGpeM

 

[SRTouch]

I've never seen that show, but it's impossible not to know about the most ridiculous, clownish display there, with the "Naked Cowboy." I find it impossible to believe this woman is a judge.

 

Here's  some of that ep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misWeKUGpeM

In the past I wondered if the old "Cristina's Court" was better than the "Justice for All" program. After all, the old program beat out TPC and JJ and won something like 3 Emmys (winning the third time even though it had already been canceled). After about 30 seconds of the above clip - I understand why it was canceled.

From the bios I see on google, she is an attorney but never been a judge. Although she claims to be a practicing attorney, and is a named partner in her husband's firm, I don't know how much time she's spent practicing law. From the bios, she's had multiple gigs as a TV judge, had a spot on playboy radio, and written a book or two. She's not alone among TV judges in never being a "real" judge. Hmmm, I wonder if that might be why I find DiMango the most credible judge of the three on "Hot Bence," since she was a sitting judge.

[AngelaHunter]

Although she claims to be a practicing attorney

 

If that's true, we see the perfect example of someone who graduated at the very bottom of her class. If this show won awards it's a scary and sad commentary on the tastes of the general public.

 

I would pay to see the "Naked Cowboy" on JJ.

[Guest]

From what I remember, Cristina Perez hardly asked a question -- she just let the "litigants" talk and talk and would, every now and then, interject with some aside. Totally worthless.

 

If this show won awards it's a scary and sad commentary on the tastes of the general public.

Amen to that. Though I never saw her first show, judging from this one alone I think I'd rather watch something called, "Here's How Paint Dries," or "Eight Hours of a Brick Sitting on a Chair."

[SRTouch]

If that's true, we see the perfect example of someone who graduated at the very bottom of her class. If this show won awards it's a scary and sad commentary on the tastes of the general public.

Have to remember that Emmys are not voted on by viewers, but by the people in the TV industry. While those yahoo's were voting to award Cristina her 3rd award, the viewing public had already voted by NOT watching, and her show had already been canceled. Edited February 8, 2016 by SRTouch

[AngelaHunter]

What I loved ( haven't watched TV in years) were those "My Strange Addiction" shows. First of all, no one could, say, drink nail polish for years and have NO bad effects at all. But the best parts of those shows were when the "addict" would confess to a friend or family member. I don't know about anyone here, but if my closest friend told me she was eating cat hair/ having a sexual relationship with pool floats/bathing five times a day in PineSol, I don't think my reaction would be, "Oh. I never knew that. I am very surprised. Do you think you might stop?"

 

Even better were the doctor visits, where someone who's been sipping gasoline for years is given a clean bill of health but told it might be a good idea to stop.

 

What I hated were the shows where people with horrific medical conditions were used to draw an audience. No cure or help was found for them. They were just being exploited and these shows are merely latter-day, politically correct sideshows. Nasty.

[Christina]

I lost a bet with my cousin, the one who gambled on Top Chef for those of you who follow that thread, on Cristina Perez. I said there was NO WAY she was an attorney after she made a completely wrong decision based on a simple theory of law that I, a paralegal, caught immediately. I then went on to show him I was right about the law, but think I lost $1 on the bet, because I wouldn't go any higher. I don't remember what it was, but it was really basic.

 

The actors weren't great either, but they at least seemed to know their positions on the case. It seemed like they were actors, too, so I froze the final frame where it said something about re-enactments or whatever language they use for not being real cases.

[funky-rat]

I never liked Judge Cristina.  But since I can't tell if everyone is being serious or not, The Naked Cowboy is a real person.  He hangs out in Times Square.  He has a history of suing people who use a likeness similar to his, so I would think it was actually him.  If everyone is aware of The Naked Cowboy, then disregard.....

[AngelaHunter]

The Naked Cowboy is a real person.

 

Yes, he is, but in any kind of courtroom he should have to behave accordingly and that includes wearing clothes.:-p

 

I'd like to see him try to get naked in front of JJ.

 

 

[funky-rat]

Yes, he is, but in any kind of courtroom he should have to behave accordingly and that includes wearing clothes.:-p

 

I'd like to see him try to get naked in front of JJ.

I didn't watch the clip (because I don't like Judge Christina), so I didn't see his "attire".  He was probably paid to be on the show, so of course he has to show up in his "work uniform". 

[LAgator77]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been able to get back in here sooner, it's been a hectic few days. 

Is there a way for a layperson to be able to tell? There are a few I've seen that seem absolutely fake, but then there are so many crazy stories on JJ too, so I'm never quite sure.

Are the judges on the fake shows also fake judges? By that, I mean are they at least attorneys, or are they actors as well?

What is it that JJ always says, something like "when you're telling the truth you don't have to think"? Even when people are lying on JJ, they're lying about actual events. They know the details of what happened, they're just "tweaking" the facts to make it more favorable to their case. On the shows I work on so much is being made up on the spot you can see the wheels turning, you can see them "thinking" about what they're going to say. I don't think the "crazy-ness" of the case has anything to do with the show's legitimacy... We have done some boring-ass fake cases over the years.

 

All the judges I work with have worked in the legal profession in some capacity, and I think most have been actual judges. This is info I've garnered from their Wikipedia pages. 

 I think our brains can pick up little clues to tell us what's real and what's not.

 

I was at a friend's house and Divorce Court (which I had never watched) was on her TV. To me, it was plain nearly immediately that the couple were actors. They never mumbled, hesitated or used mangled English.They weren't bad actors, but clearly actors.

I've never seen DC, so I wouldn't know, but perhaps their show is much more scripted/rehearsed than the ones I work on. I have DEFINITELY worked with actors who mumble (way too much), hesitate, and use mangled English.  

 

What's amazing to me is the shows that use actors instead of real litigants--and I like to think I can usually tell this, too--how do they find so many halfway decent improv actors to fill out their shows? I mean, I realize you can't swing a cat in LA without hitting an aspiring performer, but improv is a very specific skill, and I agree, even without having LAgator's insight, that the way it appears is that the "litigants" are given not so much scripts to memorize as general facts of their "case" and then they're set loose to have at it. If that's true, they actually do a fairly impressive job IMO. It's clearly not entirely real, but doesn't seem completely fake either. That said, I don't enjoy anything but TPC and JJ precisely because those are real people, hard as it is to believe sometimes :)

 

As far as I know, being a "real judge" is common to all of the TV judges, although the level at which they served could be traffic court. I wonder how they feel about interacting with actors instead of "real people"?

The actors really do run the gamut. I've seen litigants break down and cry on the stand, which is impressive to me at least. Others look like they just woke up in the gutter, crawled to set, and are drunk/high. I think most are chosen simply for their willingness to appear on camera, not for their skill. A lot of them are professional background actors. I've even thought about doing it just for the experience... I like to think I'm quick on my feet. I've done background acting myself-just for the experience, so I'm not adverse to cameras. 

 

As far as how the judges feel about working with actors/fake cases-I think they're happy to collect a paycheck. 

 

THANK. YOU. I happened to catch an episode of "Justice for All" (a show I'd never even heard of!) with Christina Perez. On this episode, a couple were "suing" a veterinarian for not euthanizing their dog and, instead, rescuing it and keeping it for herself. It was so clear to me these people were acting and just making up shit as they went along I could barely believe the were attempting to present themselves as authentic. Now, mind you, there was a similar actual case of this happening near me not that long ago. So, it makes sense when LAGator says they use the "ripped from the headlines" approach to making shit up for entertainment purposes.

 

This is the reason I stick to watching JJ. If I wanted to watch fake fakery, I'd turn on Divorce Court, long known, as AngelaHunter mentioned for using actors. And I use that latter term very loosely.

Yup, sometimes the actors are duds. We really never know what we're going to get until we start filming. 

 

A person has been mentioned a few times in the previous posts... Your reactions to that person are spot on and similar to the reaction I have to that person. I'll just leave it at that. 

[Zahdii]

THANK. YOU. I happened to catch an episode of "Justice for All" (a show I'd never even heard of!) with Christina Perez. On this episode, a couple were "suing" a veterinarian for not euthanizing their dog and, instead, rescuing it and keeping it for herself. It was so clear to me these people were acting and just making up shit as they went along I could barely believe the were attempting to present themselves as authentic. Now, mind you, there was a similar actual case of this happening near me not that long ago. So, it makes sense when LAGator says they use the "ripped from the headlines" approach to making shit up for entertainment purposes.

 

 

One of my kids thought she might want to be a veterinarian, so for part of her senior project she interned with a local small animal vet for 40 hours (spread out over several months).  I knew that she thought she'd be playing with kittens while giving them their vaccinations, getting appreciative licks on the face from grateful dogs who got a boo boo on their paw, dealing with the occasional ferret with ear mites, etc.  But she was faced with hurt animals who had no reason to trust the stranger that was pulling on their broken leg, or putting a mask over their face for anesthesia, or seeing a neglected dog whose owner hadn't had it groomed, resulting in matted fur that was pulling on the skin so much that it left lesions every time the mats pulled off.

 

My daughter was usually just an observer, but she saw the vets and their assistants get bit and scratched at.  She saw people come in with an animal that was too sick to save, and had to have their pet euthanized, but she was never in the room when that happened. 

 

On her last day there, she called me to pick her up, and she was sobbing.  I asked her what happened, and she could only choke out that I needed to come NOW! 

 

It turned out that the vet clinic was short handed that day when a couple came in with a dog that they insisted be euthanized.  They were in their 60's and they had just moved into the area to be near their daughter.  They felt that as older people they needed a dog for protection, so they adopted a 40 lb mixed breed that seemed quite docile and friendly. 

 

The vet questioned them about why the dog needed to be put down, and the husband excused himself and left everything else up to the wife. She had the most ridiculous excuses:

 

* The dog went to the door when anyone rang the bell, and she felt that the dog should hang back until he somehow knew that there was a problem with the caller.

 

* One of their neighbors was afraid of dogs and insisted that "this breed" was even worse than a pitbull.  The wife also said that having her husband walk the dog, and having to clean up the droppings from the yard upset her, even though she refused to do either.

 

* One of their young grandchildren jumped on the dog while it was sleeping and it sprang up, snapped in the air, then ran away.  The woman was sure that the dog would soon try to eat one of the grandkids and then eat her and her husband.

 

The vet talked some more with the woman and it became clear that she didn't like dogs, but her husband had always wanted one and used the 'dog will protect us' ploy to finally get one.  The vet told the woman that the dog wasn't a bad dog or dangerous, and asked if she'd sign the dog over to her.  She (the vet) would take care of finding a new home for the dog.  The owner insisted that the dog be euthanized.  She claimed that she was saving people from a vicious animal, and said that if the dog did anything wrong in the future, she didn't want someone suing her and taking away all of her life's savings.

 

The vet euthanized the dog, and she wasn't happy about it.  She explained to my daughter that as the owner of the dog, she had to do what the owner wanted, but she felt that the owner was wrong.  As I said earlier, the clinic was shorthanded that day, so my daughter was needed to hold the dog's leg while the vet shaved the fur away, and to keep the dog occupied while the vet inserted the needle and gave the shot. 

 

If you've never seen an animal put down in that situation, it goes like this:  Someone has to keep a nervous animal calm by being as kind as they can be.  While they're trying to distract the animal, someone else is shaving a spot to get a clear spot to insert the needle.  Then they both try to be as loving and kind as possible while the needle is inserted and then the animal collapses.  If you can manage it, you stay there petting and murmuring loving words until you're sure the animal is dead.  I've had to do it twice, and I'm ashamed to say that the first time I just ran out of the room.  The second time I backed away and couldn't do anything to help.  The vet gave the shot and left me with the vet tech.  While I was backed up against the wall crying, the vet tech was checking the cats vital signs, softly telling the cat "It's OK, you don't have to be sick anymore, we love you."  And she was gently petting him, straightening out his fur, and tucking his legs in so he was in a sleeping position.

 

Needless to say, my daughter didn't go into vet care.  She's now in IT, but she's scrupulous about keeping her pets healthy and happy.

[Guest]

Your post made me cry, Zahdii. Unfortunately, pets are considered property and are at the mercy of their sometimes evil fucking owners.

[SandyToes]

Ah concur with stewedsquash!  My name is "Slow on the Uptake" and I need to buy a vowel, please. Maybe two.

[rcc]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been able to get back in here sooner, it's been a hectic few days. 

What is it that JJ always says, something like "when you're telling the truth you don't have to think"? Even when people are lying on JJ, they're lying about actual events. They know the details of what happened, they're just "tweaking" the facts to make it more favorable to their case. On the shows I work on so much is being made up on the spot you can see the wheels turning, you can see them "thinking" about what they're going to say. I don't think the "crazy-ness" of the case has anything to do with the show's legitimacy... We have done some boring-ass fake cases over the years.

 

All the judges I work with have worked in the legal profession in some capacity, and I think most have been actual judges. This is info I've garnered from their Wikipedia pages. 

I've never seen DC, so I wouldn't know, but perhaps their show is much more scripted/rehearsed than the ones I work on. I have DEFINITELY worked with actors who mumble (way too much), hesitate, and use mangled English.  

 

The actors really do run the gamut. I've seen litigants break down and cry on the stand, which is impressive to me at least. Others look like they just woke up in the gutter, crawled to set, and are drunk/high. I think most are chosen simply for their willingness to appear on camera, not for their skill. A lot of them are professional background actors. I've even thought about doing it just for the experience... I like to think I'm quick on my feet. I've done background acting myself-just for the experience, so I'm not adverse to cameras. 

 

As far as how the judges feel about working with actors/fake cases-I think they're happy to collect a paycheck. 

 

Yup, sometimes the actors are duds. We really never know what we're going to get until we start filming. 

 

A person has been mentioned a few times in the previous posts... Your reactions to that person are spot on and similar to the reaction I have to that person. I'll just leave it at that. 

Thank you. Very interesting behind the scenes stuff.

[Brattinella]

Yes, he is, but in any kind of courtroom he should have to behave accordingly and that includes wearing clothes.:-p

 

I'd like to see him try to get naked in front of JJ.

 

Seriously.  That would make my day!  (I had heard of him before, never been to NYC, though.)  I was only able to get through about 1 minute of that tape:  A camera in the BEDROOM 24/7???  GAH! 

[lovesnark]

Here you go, Zillabreeze! Get ready to have a JJ style blow up.

 

People can get benefits two ways. They both come on an EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer) card that works just like a debit card. Some people get food only benefits. A predetermined amount is loaded onto the card every month and it's intended for groceries. You know, meat, spuds, veggies, milk and the like. To make  meals. Other people get food + cash benefits. The cash is intended for things like gas, diapers, laundry supplies, etc. When you sign up for these benefits, you promise to not use them for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. The retailer also promises not to accept EBT for alcohol and tobacco. Here's the part that will make your head explode. Those receiving cash benefits can use their EBT card at an ATM, get the cash and use it any way they please. A few years ago, there was a big blow up when the public found out that EBT cards were being used at tattoo parlors and casinos. Instead of doing the smart thing and taking away the ATM option completely, the powers that be just said tattoo parlors and casinos could no longer accept that form of payment. So now, people have to make a pit stop at an ATM on their way to get their tattoo or to gamble.

 

When I started working there, they didn't accept EBT. I had a regular customer come in every day for her two 6 packs of 16oz Busch beer and 2 packs of Marlboros. She always paid with cash. She was pretty young, I'd guess her in her mid 40's and she told me that she went dancing with her daughter every night. She drove a nice car and always came in around 5:30. I thought she was on her way home from work. I was SO naive! When we started accepting EBT, she comes in like usual, plops her beer on the counter, asks for her cigs and hands me her EBT card. I tell her you can't use EBT for alcohol and tobacco and bitch tells me she gets cash benefits and can use them any way she pleases. I told her again I couldn't take her EBT card for hooch and cigs and went as far as to get the booklet that came with the EBT machine to show her the rules. She called me a bitch, walked over to the ATM, withdrew the cash, then bitched because she had to pay a $3 fee to use it. Even though I knew she was abusing the system, there wasn't a fucking thing I could do about it. When I told the owner (my boss) about it, he just shrugged and said "cash is cash, no matter where they get it'. He then gave me her story. She's on 100% disability because she broke her foot on the job 10 years earlier and can't work any more. But, her horrible foot injury doesn't keep her from getting drunk every night and going dancing with her daughter. 

 

I routinely watched people use the ATM in the store to get cash, then buy their high octane malt liquor (more buzz for your buck!) and a couple packs of cigs. Or, go outside and buy drugs from the local methamphetamine dealer. It made me want to beat the shit out of them daily.

 

The assholes that got food only benefits would spend their monthly allotment on chips, soda, candy bars and other garbage food. When I knew I was a short timer there, I called out some of the worst offenders. I know it didn't do any good but it made me feel better. There was one guy I named Fat Asshole. Early 30's, morbidly obese, horrible attitude and he smelled awful. He'd trade his food benefit card for pot and use his girlfriend and baby mama's card for food. He came in one night for his usual feast of chips, candy and soda and started whining that he'd been diagnosed with high blood pressure and pre diabetes and needed knee replacement surgery. I laughed at him and said he'd probably die from a massive coronary before he could find a doctor that took Medicaid for knee replacement surgery. I quit a few days later.

 

There were some people receiving benefits that were wonderful and used them as they were intended. I remember one young couple in particular. They both had jobs and did everything they could to make a decent life for their two little girls. The woman would stop in on her way home from work and get milk and bread. One night she bought a box of cereal for her daughter's breakfast in the morning and she felt awful about paying the convenience store price for it. I paid for the cereal and thanked her for being a decent human being.

[zillabreeze]

lovesnark, that was an excellent post!  You were right, I did have to pick brain matter off of the keyboard!  I had no clue all of that cash was involved.  The ridiculousness of the situation is that the gubmint is too stupid to use technology to correct it.  Seems it would be a real easy fix to have only approved items to carry a coordinating barcode and have EBT card reject any others.  but as my Dad likes to tell me, "there you go again, trying to apply logic to the gubmint !."

 

Back in the dark ages, (when you had to count and make change) I clerked at a grocery store.  The allowable food stamp purchases were very limited, and you would get fired for letting anything slide through.

 

Not too long ago, I was standing behind a dirty, obese pig at a c-store.  She had an armload of energy drinks, chips, candy and crap.  The EBT charge was around $35.00.  There wasn't a single vitamin in the whole damn pile.  Her poor little kids looked sickly and pale like they had never tasted a vegetable.  Of course, at the end of the transaction, she got some cash out to buy lottery scratchers.  I don't know how you didn't have a stroke watching that shit day in and day out.

 

And good on you for helping that young mother out.  I will occasionally pick up a tab in the grocery line or pitch in if someone seems to be struggling, but my judgey self sizes up the type of items first.

Edited February 13, 2016 by zillabreeze

[lovesnark]

I just remembered another particularly satisfying moment after I'd given notice. A young woman who happened to be the girlfriend of one of our son's friends was a regular at the store. She was 21 years old, didn't work,  lived with her boyfriend for free at his dad's house and was a straight up bitch. She got $200 a month in food benefits and spent it all on chips, candy and soda. She got pissed at me because I told her she couldn't buy energy drinks with her EBT card and after that, she was extremely rude every time she came in. She had a  mop of very thick hair that only saw shampoo about once a month and hygiene must have been too exhausting after a long day laying around eating chips. She was nasty. Inside and out. On my last shift, she came in and, the god's were smiling at me because her EBT card was declined. She'd already spent her money for the month. She went off on me and since I knew I was out of there, I went off right back. I asked her if she knew where that money came from every month. Of course, she said the welfare office. I let her know that it came from people like me that go to work every day and deal with bitches like her and pay taxes. Then I asked why she didn't take a shower and wash her smelly self since she all she did every day was lay around, eat chips, drink soda and watch TV. It felt so good! She said she was going to get me fired. I told her not to bother because I'd already quit and suggested she apply for my job.

lovesnark, that was an excellent post!  You were right, I did have to pick brain matter off of the keyboard!  I had no clue all of that cash was involved.  The ridiculousness of the situation is that the gubmint is too stupid to use technology to correct it.  Seems it would be a real easy fix to have only approved items to carry a coordinating barcode and have EBT card reject any others.  but as my Dad likes to tell me, "there you go again, trying to apply logic to the gubmint !."

 

Back in the dark ages, (when you had to count and make change) I clerked at a grocery store.  The allowable food stamp purchases were very limited, and you would get fired for letting anything slide through.

 

Not too long ago, I was standing behind a dirty, obese pig at a c-store.  She had an armload of energy drinks, chips, candy and crap.  The EBT charge was around $35.00.  There wasn't a single vitamin in the whole damn pile.  Her poor little kids looked sickly and pale like they had never tasted a vegetable.  Of course, at the end of the transaction, she got some cash out to buy lottery scratchers.  I don't know how you didn't have a stroke watching that shit day in and day out.

 

And good on you for helping that young mother out.  I will occasionally pick up a tab in the grocery line or pitch in if someone seems to be struggling, but my judgey self sizes up the type of items first.

All they would have to do is remove the ATM option. You need diapers? You pay with your card. Gas? pay with your card. You want cash? Get a fucking part time job. At a convenience store so you can deal with assholes like yourself on a daily basis.

[zillabreeze]

 

I let her know that it came from people like me that go to work every day and deal with bitches like her and pay taxes.

I bet that felt great!  I have had the urge to point out my contribution before, but as we learned on JJ, you never know who'll get violent.

[AuntiePam]

I think my daughter might be an anomaly.  For about ten years, she was able to stay with a part-time job that she loved because she lived with her boyfriend, who made good money.  Friends told her she should apply for food stamps.  "You're not married, you're technically poor, get that food card!"  She refused. 

 

When they split up, she still refused to apply.  "It means I'm poor.  I don't want to be poor."  She finally gave in.  I think she got about $200 a month in benefits.  Then she got a full-time job at barely above minimum wage.  She always reported her earnings truthfully, and every time she'd get a 25 cent raise, the benefits would drop some more.  That's the way it should work, but as it turned out, she was better off -- food wise -- working part-time than full-time. 

 

This is a gal who didn't have a cell phone, internet, or cable TV, who shopped for clothes at garage sales and ate a lot of ramen noodles. 

 

I got food stamps once for about two months, back in the 70's.  My husband was laid off from construction work, we had four kids, I was working full-time but we were poor enough to qualify.  Come Christmas time, we had no money for gifts for my family.  On my way to mom's for Christmas dinner, I stopped at the grocery store and used my stamps to buy "fancy food" -- olives and chocolate -- as my contribution to the dinner.  You should have seen the looks I got at the checkout.

 

There's so much abuse in the system, money wasted, benefits going to people who misuse them or get them fraudulently.  I don't know how to fix the system without throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

[lovesnark]

Your daughter is exactly the type of human being that deserved benefits and would use them like they're supposed to. Hats off to her! I remember the food stamps in the 70's. My Granny got them for a while when her $65 a month SS check didn't stretch far enough. They came in books of different denominations and were only good for real food.

 

I don't know how to fix the system, either. But, I could certainly give some pointers to make it harder to cheat if anyone would listen to me:)

[Guest]

Instead of looking at it like, "Oh, noes...Scalia is dead!" All I'm feeling is, "Here is the perfect job opportunity for Judge Judy!"

[SandyToes]

Oh, hell, yea!!!  'Specially since a goodly portion of the US thinks she already is on the bench!

 

Thanks, lovesnark! It's unfortunate that for the ones who truly need assistance, there are so many who find ways to abuse it. But glad you got to lay the smack on at least a few of 'em!

[AZChristian]

I read a couple of years ago that they finally put cruise ship vacations on the list of things people couldn't use their EBT cards for.

[AuntiePam]

I read a couple of years ago that they finally put cruise ship vacations on the list of things people couldn't use their EBT cards for.

 Oh fer pete's sake!  I suppose that could happen if a wealthy grandma treats family to a cruise and family uses the card to pay for meals.  Or the cruise was a prize.  But day-um!  Didn't I read awhile back about a lottery winner who was eligible for food stamps? 

 

I can speak a little bit about working while disabled.  My first husband was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis after twenty years in construction, breathing concrete dust.  (Pulmonary fibrosis is probably what's happening with a lot of the 9/11 workers.  It's incurable.)

 

He applied for Social Security Disability and was turned down.  He filed an appeal and while the appeal was pending, he took a job in a factory.  He was able to work for about five months, had to quit, and died three months later.  A few months later, the SSA decided yeah, he was entitled to disability, and that those five months of work were a "trial work period" and were not evidence that he wasn't disabled.  So apparently they allow claimants to try to work, without penalty. 

 

I think that once you're getting the benefits, you lose them if your condition improves. 

 

He would have been allowed to work while on SSA disability, but if the work had been successful for X months, the benefits would end.

[Christina]

Social Security Disability (SSD) has a trial work period of 8 months, where you can try to return to work without affecting your payments. You can also earn a certain amount each month without affecting your benefits, because SSD wants you to return to work. Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a monthly amount that is affected by earnings. In Ohio, I think the max amount you can receive is $761 or something, not enough to live on for most people, and can be affected by things such as your child's summer job or spouse getting a 5 cent raise. It can qualify you for low-income housing, though, and if you are only paying $50 a month in rent, and utilities are discounted, I suppose you can live on it.

 

I don't know when Lovesnark worked in the convenience store, but I worked at a grocery store about 10 years ago and the computer decided if something was covered by food stamps by the SKU. We had a huge issue where certain fresh vegetables were incorrectly coded in the EBT systems as vitamins, and therefore you couldn't use food stamps for them. No one at the State level who could fix the problem cared to, and there seemed to be a general feeling of people not needing to buy fresh veggies on food stamps anyway**. One of the major farmers markets made statements about it, feeling that it was done on purpose to keep people from purchasing from them. I tried to find it to link it, but cannot find any mention of it with Google. I know I'm not imagining it because it was frustrating as hell.

 

There was also an issue in other states with people not being able to use coupons. The computer system treated them as cash, and somehow turned the whole transaction into a cash transaction, or something like that. I didn't look it up to see if it had been fixed, just remember thinking how incredibly stupid it was, and how angry I would be if I were a resident of one of those states. 

 

** It seems that most people think that, if food stamps are to be limited, it should be to purchase fresh veggies and not soda/candy/snacks, not the opposite. One of the major newspapers did an expose on the misconceptions of people loading their baskets with steak and lobsters, and showed it wasn't true. One of the fraudent uses include people trading their EBT cards for drugs, and the drug dealers using it to purchase these types of items. Some state tried to set up a system to catch these types of purchases on a mass level (such as one card purchasing these items month after month), but it wasn't financially feasible, and the amount of fraud wasn't great enough for the expense.

 

They also went through the major grocery stores and asked for a summary of purchases that were paid by EBT and didn't discover a large amount of purchases for junk food versus "real" food. However, they made it clear that Wal-Mart and the convenience stores wouldn't give up the info. I think they claimed that they didn't have the capabilities, but no one believed it, at least as it involved Wal-Mart. The accounting paperwork to the State would likely have showed the info they were requesting. There was also some information that Wal-Mart was the largest recipient of the EBT system in that state, by a large margin, which skewed their results. The final determination seemed to be that without Wal-Mart's info, assistance from the State, and with the large Political Action Committees funded by Frito Lay, Pepsi, Coke and the fast food industry, we the public will never know the extent of abuses in the EBT system, but from what we do know, it isn't as bad as politicians claim.

 

I realize I just wrote a treaty without resources, but the broken food stamp program is one of my major frustrations. I feel that the brokenness is less about fraud, and more about not allowing coupons and general computer related problems, that have been deemed too expensive to fix. When I lived in Albuquerque 20 years ago, there was a pilot program for those receiving WIC that had required basic cooking classes, but it couldn't get the funding. I wonder if that kind of program would have made a difference in the long run for some of the families. 

 

I forgot to add, that woman who won the lottery but kept getting food stamps was prosecuted for fraud, and had to pay it back. She said she qualified at the time she got them and claimed that she thought she could keep them until she had to re-qualify. Someone turned her in; probably someone from a store where she used the stamps. I know I would, and seriously doubt that she thought she could keep getting them, she just didn't think she would get caught. She is often touted as one of the problems with the food stamp problem, because there was no doubt that she was a scammer. I think there were other funds she continued to receive after she won, too.

[rcc]

I just remembered another particularly satisfying moment after I'd given notice. A young woman who happened to be the girlfriend of one of our son's friends was a regular at the store. She was 21 years old, didn't work,  lived with her boyfriend for free at his dad's house and was a straight up bitch. She got $200 a month in food benefits and spent it all on chips, candy and soda. She got pissed at me because I told her she couldn't buy energy drinks with her EBT card and after that, she was extremely rude every time she came in. She had a  mop of very thick hair that only saw shampoo about once a month and hygiene must have been too exhausting after a long day laying around eating chips. She was nasty. Inside and out. On my last shift, she came in and, the god's were smiling at me because her EBT card was declined. She'd already spent her money for the month. She went off on me and since I knew I was out of there, I went off right back. I asked her if she knew where that money came from every month. Of course, she said the welfare office. I let her know that it came from people like me that go to work every day and deal with bitches like her and pay taxes. Then I asked why she didn't take a shower and wash her smelly self since she all she did every day was lay around, eat chips, drink soda and watch TV. It felt so good! She said she was going to get me fired. I told her not to bother because I'd already quit and suggested she apply for my job.

All they would have to do is remove the ATM option. You need diapers? You pay with your card. Gas? pay with your card. You want cash? Get a fucking part time job. At a convenience store so you can deal with assholes like yourself on a daily basi

I love that story! Thank you for posting and I'm glad someone, somewhere got to say what's on their mind dealing with those damn cards. 

[momtoall]

One of the major newspapers did an expose on the misconceptions of people loading their baskets with steak and lobsters, and showed it wasn't true.

 

 

Yet the perception persists.  As I have said before, I worked with people who laid off and working at low paying jobs that qualified their families to receive food stamps.  Most were hard working and not scamming the system.  I remember a story one mother told me.  Her husband had been called back to work at his factory job and he was to start the following week.  Her daughter's thirteenth birthday was that Saturday.  The mom felt the family had reason to celebrate, so she went to Kroger and bought a birthday cake and two cartons of ice cream (one her daughter's favorite and the other her husband's favorite).  As she stood in line, she took out the food stamp booklets to pay for her purchases.  She said she couldn't believe the degrading comments people made toward her.  She left the store in tears.  She cried as she told me the story.  She said "Do people really believe people getting food stamps don't deserve a damn dish of ice cream and cake? "

 

I realize that the litigants on JJ has made me cynical but then I remember this family and the others I worked with, of whom the vast majority were hard working honest people not scammers just people trying to make it week to week. 

 

Truthfully, I save my indignation for THIS that I posted in August:

 

A family of four in New York City makes $497,911 a year but pays $1,574 a month to live in public housing in a three-bedroom apartment subsidized by taxpayers.  In Los Angeles, a family of five that’s lived in public housing since 1974 made $204,784 last year but paid $1,091 for a four-bedroom apartment. And a tenant with assets worth $1.6 million — including stocks, real estate and retirement accounts — last year paid $300 for a one-bedroom apartment in public housing in Oxford, Neb.

 

In a new report, the watchdog for the Department of Housing and Urban Development describes these and more than 25,000 other “over income” families earning more than the maximum income for government-subsidized housing as an “egregious” abuse of the system. While the family in New York with an annual income of almost $500,000 raked in $790,500 in rental income on its real estate holdings in recent years, more than 300,000 families that really qualify for public housing lingered on waiting lists, auditors found.

Edited February 14, 2016 by momtoall

[AngelaHunter]

I had a first-hand look at the world of welfare scamming. My sister never worked a day in her life and she and her husband were on welfare. This - at the time - entitled them to go to a pharmacy and get anything they wanted for free. Of course they loaded up on things like suntan lotion, bath products and makeup and then sold it. All their friends did the same. They called their government checks their "pay." They all had plenty of beer too.  At the time I was earning so little working every day that my shoes had holes in the soles. I couldn't afford new ones, but apparently I could afford to buy electronics, take-out food and beer for all of them. I know just how Byrd feels!

 

A friend of mine works in a church and sometimes takes care of the food bank. One guy comes in weekly with a list as though he's shopping at IGA. Last time he got highly indignant and angry because there was no cereral of the type and brand he and his wife prefer. I dunno, but my mother always told us that beggars can't be choosers.

[bad things are bad]

One of the major newspapers did an expose on the misconceptions of people loading their baskets with steak and lobsters, and showed it wasn't true

 

I did personally witness a woman paying for lobsters with food stamps, back when we were poor enough we might have qualified, but no way was I going "on the county", as my grandma used to say. I also had a neighbor at the same time who bought pop with her benefits, to give to her small kids (!) but also because the deposit is refunded in cash (Michigan) so she'd have cigarette money

 

That said, I agree with the other posters that it would be tough to fix the system without hurting the majority of people who use it for its intended purpose. 

Edited February 15, 2016 by bad things are bad

[AuntiePam]

A friend of mine works in a church and sometimes takes care of the food bank. One guy comes in weekly with a list as though he's shopping at IGA. Last time he got highly indignant and angry because there was no cereral of the type and brand he and his wife prefer. I dunno, but my mother always told us that beggars can't be choosers.

 

Ugh!  That reminds me of my husband's brother and his wife.  They're big shots in their church (fundamentalist evangelicals) and run a food bank.  They're always first in line when donations come in and make sure the best stuff goes home with them. 

 

One exception to the beggars/choosers rule is clothing.  I volunteered at a "clothes closet" and you wouldn't believe the crap that people would donate.  Clothes that weren't just years out of date but that were ripped, stained, stinking, missing buttons, broken zippers, covered with pet hair, etc.  Don't expect people to be grateful for trash.

Edited February 15, 2016 by AuntiePam

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

When I lived in Albuquerque 20 years ago, there was a pilot program for those receiving WIC that had required basic cooking classes, but it couldn't get the funding. I wonder if that kind of program would have made a difference in the long run for some of the families.

I've never used food stamps but when I was married to a military man, I had WIC for my kids back in the day. You get those specific coupons that are used for things like cereal, milk, cheese, 100% fruit juice, etc. We picked up our WIC coupons at the military base and got nutritional handouts at the same time. There was a lot of good information on there. When I moved to a different state we would have had to go to the welfare office downtown to pick up the coupons and it just wasn't worth the gas or time sitting there all day (plus we were financially a little better off). 

[AngelaHunter]

Clothes that weren't just years out of date but that were ripped, stained, stinking, missing buttons, broken zippers, covered with pet hair, etc

 

Gee, aside from the "stinking" part, that sounds like what I just cleared out of my closet. However, I threw it all in the trash and didn't think someone else would want any of it. Wow. People never fail to amaze me.

[momtoall]

I volunteered at a "clothes closet" and you wouldn't believe the crap that people would donate.  Clothes that weren't just years out of date but that were ripped, stained, stinking, missing buttons, broken zippers, covered with pet hair, etc.  Don't expect people to be grateful for trash.

 

 

Exactly!!

[AuntiePam]

I've never used food stamps but when I was married to a military man, I had WIC for my kids back in the day. You get those specific coupons that are used for things like cereal, milk, cheese, 100% fruit juice, etc. We picked up our WIC coupons at the military base and got nutritional handouts at the same time. There was a lot of good information on there. When I moved to a different state we would have had to go to the welfare office downtown to pick up the coupons and it just wasn't worth the gas or time sitting there all day (plus we were financially a little better off). 

 

And in the 60's (and probably before), you could choose between food and food stamps.  The food included grains -- rice, flour, and oatmeal -- cheese (real cheese, not "cheese product") -- butter (real butter), powdered milk, powdered eggs, and peanut butter.  I think there were canned items too, early generics, plain white labels with black letters saying "tomato sauce", etc.  They were called "commodities". 

 

I lived in a housing project for awhile.  The older folks chose the commodities and the younger folks took the stamps.  If you knew how to cook, you could do a lot with commodities. 

[teebax]

 

Yet the perception persists.  As I have said before, I worked with people who laid off and working at low paying jobs that qualified their families to receive food stamps.  Most were hard working and not scamming the system.

This is where my bleeding heart is going to show and probably offend someone, but my ire is much more directed toward corporate welfare than a few people who might be scamming the system out of a few bucks here and there. I couldn't tell you what anyone is buying with their food stamps or cash benefits because I'm too busy living my life and taking care of my own business. Whenever someone complains about what someone was buying I am always surprised, since it would never dawn on my to inspect anyone else's purchases, or their method of payment for that matter.

 

I think the powers that be have done a masterful job of making Americans focus our anger on people who are in the same economic situation as themselves instead of where it should go: the fatcats who aren't paying their fair share. If we just closed the loopholes and had a flat tax we would have enough left over to feed anyone who needed it and then some. I wish more of us voted with our dollars and stopped doing business with companies that are benefiting from our tax dollars, but if we did that we'd probably have nowhere left to shop! 

 

TL; DR version: I just can't muster up that much anger for someone on the dole who is getting a few hundred or thousand dollars when corporations are getting billions. 

[Christina]

There is no doubt that there is fraud in the system; that some people trade food benefits for drugs, or purchase large quantities of beverages to resell. It's just not as large of a problem as it is made out to be, and to fix it is cost prohibitive. With the exception of people like the woman who won the lottery, there isn't much of an option to get the funds back from the people that scam. They don't have anything.

 

It's been a while, but I remember WIC working the same way as far as what you could purchase. It was all things that you would have to cook, such as beans, eggs, milk, etc., but you purchased them at the grocery store from participating products. I don't think there were any meats, and it seems like produce was limited too. You could get some bagged apples or potatoes, I think. 

[rcc]

I had a first-hand look at the world of welfare scamming. My sister never worked a day in her life and she and her husband were on welfare. This - at the time - entitled them to go to a pharmacy and get anything they wanted for free. Of course they loaded up on things like suntan lotion, bath products and makeup and then sold it. All their friends did the same. They called their government checks their "pay." They all had plenty of beer too.  At the time I was earning so little working every day that my shoes had holes in the soles. I couldn't afford new ones, but apparently I could afford to buy electronics, take-out food and beer for all of them. I know just how Byrd feels!

 

A friend of mine works in a church and sometimes takes care of the food bank. One guy comes in weekly with a list as though he's shopping at IGA. Last time he got highly indignant and angry because there was no cereral of the type and brand he and his wife prefer. I dunno, but my mother always told us that beggars can't be choosers.

At least you have your self respect. Those losers don't have any and no shame either. That's what the welfare system has wrought unfortunately.

This is where my bleeding heart is going to show and probably offend someone, but my ire is much more directed toward corporate welfare than a few people who might be scamming the system out of a few bucks here and there. I couldn't tell you what anyone is buying with their food stamps or cash benefits because I'm too busy living my life and taking care of my own business. Whenever someone complains about what someone was buying I am always surprised, since it would never dawn on my to inspect anyone else's purchases, or their method of payment for that matter.

 

I think the powers that be have done a masterful job of making Americans focus our anger on people who are in the same economic situation as themselves instead of where it should go: the fatcats who aren't paying their fair share. If we just closed the loopholes and had a flat tax we would have enough left over to feed anyone who needed it and then some. I wish more of us voted with our dollars and stopped doing business with companies that are benefiting from our tax dollars, but if we did that we'd probably have nowhere left to shop! 

 

TL; DR version: I just can't muster up that much anger for someone on the dole who is getting a few hundred or thousand dollars when corporations are getting billions. 

I hear you but an old saying comes to mind "Two wrongs don't make a right."