S02.E11: The Akeda

[sinkwriter]

 

This. There's no real redemption here or any glimmer of the 'good' in Henry that Katrina keeps bleating on about. Mentally!Ill!Manchild!Jenry picked his biological father over his adopted father because his biological father was willing to let him live while his adopted father was willing to toss him on the scrap heap. Jenry got a first hand taste of how empty Moloch's promises are. That's self-interest, not redemption.

 

In the moments before Henry stabbed Moloch, I figured we'd see some sort of change in Henry, either a dawning realization that his dark "father" was a total tool, or that Ichabod's words were finally sinking in amidst Moloch's willingness to kill him, a decision to take a different path, or ... something. But we didn't get even a flicker of emotion from John Noble before he spun around and ran Moloch through. I just felt it was very anticlimactic. There should have been something to show the shift. Or they could have shown him simmering in emotions as he led the team through the woods to Moloch. He could have looked like he was thinking hard about something, or observing his parents in a new light, or showing a flicker of conflict before resolutely continuing to lead them to their expected doom. But up to the moment he turned around and stabbed Moloch, Henry was still evil and more than ready to see the team killed by his "father." When he decided to stab Moloch, we didn't even see any anger or anguish, that he felt he had to kill the creature he'd served so reverently. I needed something, but instead it felt like they were trying to go for surprise by showing nothing. As a result I felt nothing. (And didn't care.)

[johntfs]

I liked it.  I liked all of it.

 

I liked Ichabod wanting a motorcycle and Hawley being useful but not omni-present.

 

I liked Irving going out like a boss, even if I'm fairly certain that he's coming back due to the Scabbard of Melchizedek plus Henry hlding his soul.

 

I liked Katrina sympathizing with Abraham and intervening to prevent him dying and the seeds of doubt that sewed with Ichabon.

 

I liked that Katrina's faith in Henry appeared to be redeemed by him killing Moloch, if only because I know that she'll be equally sure that Abraham can only be redeemed and that's going to fall flat when she inevitably frees him to save him and he stays evil.

 

I like that Henry destroyed Moloch because Moloch was, let's face it, kind of a one-note dipshit and look forward to a new big bad rising who is a little talkier, smarter and able to exploit all the various divisions in Team Witness.

[FierceAfroChick]

The Cranes should not have been present for Irving’s death and that’s what pisses me off.  If anyone should have been there holding his hand while he passed it should have been people who actually care for him, like the Mills sisters.

 

I’m seriously beginning to hate Ichabod as much as I hate his wife.

[catrox14]

 

Immortal doesn't mean you can't die, it just means you can't die by natural causes.  Unnatural one, yes.  Or even just plain old murder.

 

I have to disagree.  Immortal means you cannot die be it natural or unnatural cause. You can be fatally wounded but you wouldn't stay dead : see Jack Harkness. So theoretically if whatever makes someone immortal is removed or reset then that immortal thing can die but as long as it remains in an immortal state, it can't die. So if a witch is immortal but a spell is cast to remove that immortality then boom, dead.

[sinkwriter]

 

The Cranes should not have been present for Irving’s death and that’s what pisses me off.  If anyone should have been there holding his hand while he passed it should have been people who actually care for him, like the Mills sisters.

 

I didn't mind Crane being there - I liked how he as a former soldier in an army recognized Irving's sacrifice and kept trying to honor that, talking about him as a Captain and other lovely comments. I felt it was appropriate for him to be there. But I didn't like Katrina there; I would have preferred to replace her with Abbie and Jenny. They should have been at his side, clearly distraught, telling him not to die and promising again to look after his family. In fact, I would have preferred Jenny there more than Abbie. It felt like Irving was her "Corbin" in a way, and she seemed to have a strong bond with him that Abbie didn't necessarily have (because he was more her boss than her mentor; he's not like Corbin was to her).

Edited December 2, 2014 by sinkwriter

[LydiaMoon1]

I hope I don't have to say, "bye Felecia" to this show, but it's getting pretty close.

I said goodbye last night.  If Andy suddenly reappears in Season 3 and Frank and Andy help each other regain their souls and escape Purgatory, I'll give the show another try.  Until then, PEACE.

[catrox14]

I think Ichabod being there was fine. Abbie knew him a little longer as a coworker, but they both dealt with him in equal amounts after they became witnesses.  But Katrina being there? Frak no.  She was useless and annoying.  It should have been Abbie and Ichabod with him but at least one of them was.

 

I actually shed a tear because I thought Mison and Jones were really good in that scene.  I could see how shocked and upset Ichabod was but he was trying to be dignified, give Irving some comfort and to encourage Irving to hold on. I thought Ichabod was showing that compassionate side that has seems to go missing whenever Katrina is around. 

[Kanner]

Re: Consequences of Irving's death

When the show comes back I need to see some real fallout from this. Not that he died (Irving made the choice to fight and take on the armor of War and people die in battle) but the actions of the Cranes afterwards. The whole point of the fight was to kill Moloch, right? The only reason they fought War was because he was in the way of getting to Moloch. Why did they not proceed to Moloch after the battle field was cleared?  If you want to say they needed to regroup, I am ok with that.  Then they have the chance to kill the person who killed Irving and was responsible for other numerous deaths (including Crane's friend Caroline) and they do nothing.  I am not saying it would be easy to kill your child not matter the circumstances but that time has passed. 

 

I need to see some real remorse from the Cranes and some pissed out attitude from the Millses. Because as it stands now, it seems like Irving died for nothing.  As someone brought up above, did he just kill an avatar?

[moviewhore]

I haven't watched the last 2 eps and now with Frank killed off I'm out for good.  I hated Ichy and Katrina already with their selfishness and epic love bullshit along with their putting Henry first above everything and everyone else.  I'm sick of Abbie being Ichy's cheerleader because he's not worthy of it.  I can't believe that Orlando was sidelined so much and then killed off like this.  I think the show is fucking shit and it will only get worse with the Crane melodrama front and center,

 

Tom and Nicole deserve better than this.  I hope the show doesn't get renewed. 

[DearEvette]

I have to disagree.  Immortal means you cannot die be it natural or unnatural cause. You can be fatally wounded but you wouldn't stay dead : see Jack Harkness. So theoretically if whatever makes someone immortal is removed or reset then that immortal thing can die but as long as it remains in an immortal state, it can't die. So if a witch is immortal but a spell is cast to remove that immortality then boom, dead.

 

I do take back my earlier assertion.  Actual immortality means you can't die.  But I think true immortality is a concept that most people find difficult to really grasp except on a theoretical level because in most cases, esp in fiction & literature there somehow is always a way to remove that immortality.  Once you humanize or anthropomorphize something, then it becomes imbued with human traits, one of which is mortality.

 

In the mythology of Sleepy Hollow, it has been established that Henry and Katrina being witches is what supposedly grants them their "immortality" except other witches on the show have been killed.  Reverend Knapp was beheaded by Death himself.  The coven was specific in their own mortality language: with Jeremy they simply "stopped his heart".  But for them, Ichabod's presence meant their death.  So that means that the show's definition of "immortality" is fluid and situational depending on if the writers want to save the character or not. And if killing Henry was not ever an option because he could never be killed, then the entire wrangle over him loses all impact as well.

[emma675]

I hate StruggleWitch. Hate her. But the writers seem to love her and seem conviced the audience loves her--does anyone know if that's true? I only talk about the show here so I don't really know what the general audience seems to think of her at all.

[cynic]

The Cranes should not have been present for Irving’s death and that’s what pisses me off. If anyone should have been there holding his hand while he passed it should have been people who actually care for him, like the Mills sisters...

Yeah, that was BS. Not only were the Mills not the ones to hold his hand, the writers actually removed Jenny and Abbie from the scene entirely. Abbie at least got a reaction shot later. Mrs. BAMF Jenny got nothing.

All so Crane and Struggle Witch could be front and center in the emotional impact of Irving's death. Haaaaaaaaaate.

What was the point of Katrina even being there? Miss "powerful witch, I saved my husband from death by putting him in stasis for 200 years" couldn't help Irving at all with her magic. She couldn't even help him with her Quaker Nurse skills! She's truly useless. And least she didn't faint this time.

And considering Katrina is a nurse and Jenny is a fighter, why wasn't Katrina the one to tend to Abbie? Then, Jenny would have held Irving's hand. Abbie would have still had her beautiful reaction shot. And Katrina wouldn't have yet another failure on her perfect failing record. But, no, Katrina has to have a good emotional moment during the death of a character that she barely had met!

Edited December 2, 2014 by cynic

[DearEvette]

The Cranes should not have been present for Irving’s death and that’s what pisses me off. If anyone should have been there holding his hand while he passed it should have been people who actually care for him, like the Mills ...

 

 

Yeah, that was BS. Not only were the Mills not the ones to hold his hand, the writers actually removed Jenny and Abbie from the scene entirely. Abbie at least got a reaction shot later. Mrs. BAMF Jenny got nothing.

All so Crane and Struggle Witch could be front and center in the emotional impact of Irving's death. Haaaaaaaaaate.

 

 

I don't mind Crane being there.  At least he had a relationship with Irving.  I don't even know if Katrina and Irving ever even shared a scene before.  But yeah, Abbie & Jenny being removed was problematic and it is a recurrence of a theme.

 

I wrote earlier that I felt very little emotional impact from the finale.  But this post also brought up something else... the fact that Henry got to kill Moloch.

 

Abbie has been Ride or Die for this.  Literally, she rode a motorcycle to the Apocalypse and was ready for die without a blink.  All she wanted all along was to kill Moloch.  He was directly responsible for the destruction of her and Jenny's young lives.  She was purposeful and always steadfast.  I have no doubt that Abbie would have smothered baby Moloch in that crib and called it a good day's work.  And yet she had to stand helplessly by while Henry did the honors in what amounted to a tantrum kill.

 

There should have been an Eowyn-like loop-hole for Abbie to wield the sword and kill Moloch.

 

The whole things tastes like flat beer.

[Kanner]

The writers could not have Abbie or Jenny with Irving when he died because after they eased his passing they would have went straight for Moloch and Henry and sacrificed their lives by taking them down. I am looking at you Cranes.

[TV Juriste]

But ...see... this is why I have a headache with this show.  Immortal doesn't mean you can't die, it just means you can't die by natural causes.  Unnatural one, yes.  Or even just plain old murder.   In the show's mythology, Witches are immortal unless otherwise killed which is why Henry and Katrina are still alive.  But Katrina's coven, Reverend Knapp, Serilda of Abbadon etc. were all killed.  So his immortality should have not shielded him from death in wielding the sword.

 

Which brings me to the soul thing.   I assume the fact that he had no soul allowed him to wield the sword?  But didn't Katrina say that killing Moloch would release Henry's soul?  How?  Either you give up your soul or you don't.  Frank made a point of saying although Henry owned his soul he hadn't given it up completely.  Henry went all in.  How does he merit a backsie?

Did they ever explicitly say that witches/warlocks don't die unless they're murdered? I have been so confused about what rules of life/death/aging apply to them. If those are the rules governing SH, then there should be a LOT more witches around. The witnesses should be looking for other covens to help them. Or not, I guess. Sounds like the second half of the season will lose its sense of urgency. They're no longer trying to stop Moloch from rising. 

 

I'm so confused about why the show I started watching a season and a half ago has COMPLETELY changed into an entirely different show. Now they aren't even fighting an apocalypse. It's just a show about a bunch of time travelers and a cop with possible monsters of the week?

[moviewhore]

Does anyone remember when Ichy listened to Abbie and valued her opinion?  God, those were the days.

 

I just am at a loss with killing Frank and having the Crane family shit being so important.  I just don't get it, 

[90 Day Pinochet]

I approached this episode with fear and trembling that the writers will continue to try and make Katrina happen and continue to fail. Even though the writers continue to test my faith in them, I was glad that they (at least temporarily) sacrificed the Ichabod/Katrina romance and spared my viewership. Is it wrong that the collapse of the Cranes' marriage made me whoop with joy? 

 

How did the writers make a revolutionary war spy/witch stuck in purgatory for centuries so uncool? It now makes sense why they decided to interpret the white-horsed rider as "Conquest" in the SH mythos rather than "Pestilence": if they went with "Pestilence" it would have been too obvious that the rider is Katrina.

 

That being said, this episode made me excited to see where the plot goes from here now that Moloch is no longer in the show's eschatological driver's seat. Does Henry dial back the evil a bit now that he has cut ties with Moloch? Does he continue to bet all in on evil and now just does it with more agency? How does Irving's vision of himself as a badass on the set of a metal video relate to Orlando Jones inevitably receiving the John Cho treatment?

Edited December 2, 2014 by 90 Day Pinochet

[HalcyonDays]

We could all tell that Ichabod wasn't going to have the cojones to take Henry out.  Especially with Katrina there.  Fine, then he should be honest about that and let Abbie be the one to do it.

 

When the show resumes I need Abbie to be a little PO'd at Ichabod.

 

I need Abbie to be REALLY PO'ed at Ichabod. But she won't be. I hate that Ichabod tried to spare his son. He's just like his useless wife - lies to Abbie over and over again. No honour in this person anymore. Again, Goffman ruined my beloved character, sacrified him completely on the Altar of Katrina. Honestly, Abbie should run him through with the sword.

 

The only good thing (besides the Motorcycle comment - is that Jenny is still alive. At least she is okay!

[Elsinore]

*bang head*
 
Shut up Katrina. Shut up a lot. Especially about your weakened witchy powers.
 
This episode got props for:
 
The motorcycle.
 
The teensiest Ichabbie moment when he was holding her back.
 
Jenny, Hawley. Equal parts useful and entertaining.
 
Bullshit on Frank dying. Pretty sure that Sleepy Hollow only survives on Ichabbie and the notion that Orlando Jones is part of the cast.
 
This episode deserved to be dropkicked into next week for:
 
Excessive Katrina and Henry whining.
 
"That's what sacrifice is". Gag me.
 
Has Katrina met Frank before? Was she supposed to magically know who he is?
 
Fredericks Manor should be the most unstable haunted house known to man. Those roots must have done some extensive damage. I am amazed that it's so clean and sturdy looking.
 
The last ten minutes. That's your cliffhanger, really?

[Iboatedhere]

I hate StruggleWitch. Hate her. But the writers seem to love her and seem conviced the audience loves her--does anyone know if that's true? I only talk about the show here so I don't really know what the general audience seems to think of her at all.

 

If you look at #SleepyHollow while the show is airing it's definitely not a Katrina love-fest. I love the snark.

[Actionmage]

How does Irving's vision of himself as a badass on the set of a metal video relate to Orlando Jones inevitably receiving the John Cho treatment?

 

::nods in agreement and waits for TIIC to answer::

[ElleBee]

I was seconds away from busting out an off-key "Ding, dong the witch is dead" and then Ichabod had to open his trap.

 

#TeamMoloch

[cynic]

So, if destroying the Horseman of War doesn't actually kill Henry, then pretty much anyone could have wielded the sword against him, since it's the act of taking a life that requires the wielder to sacrifice his own life or soul. Right? Poor Irving. That makes his death even more tragic, because everyone else would have just died, but he gets to die and either become an evil minion or go to hell since his soul was already signed away.

Does Abraham know that Henry got to have a Horseman avatar, while Abraham has to fight his own battles (and walk around without his head)? He should fire his agent. Hey, with Moloch dead, what happens to Abraham?

[90 Day Pinochet]

I'm so confused about why the show I started watching a season and a half ago has COMPLETELY changed into an entirely different show. Now they aren't even fighting an apocalypse. It's just a show about a bunch of time travelers and a cop with possible monsters of the week?

 

If it is any consolation I am pretty sure that they aren't moving into a monster of the week format. Rather, I think the show will remain the witness protection program and the team will just end up fighting different flavors of apocalypse. I am actually pretty happy that Moloch bought it because he was too undynamic and remote to actually function as a compelling big bad.

[Shanna]

I don't mind Crane being there. At least he had a relationship with Irving. I don't even know if Katrina and Irving ever even shared a scene before. But yeah, Abbie & Jenny being removed was problematic and it is a recurrence of a theme.

I wrote earlier that I felt very little emotional impact from the finale. But this post also brought up something else... the fact that Henry got to kill Moloch.

Abbie has been Ride or Die for this. Literally, she rode a motorcycle to the Apocalypse and was ready for die without a blink. All she wanted all along was to kill Moloch. He was directly responsible for the destruction of her and Jenny's young lives. She was purposeful and always steadfast. I have no doubt that Abbie would have smothered baby Moloch in that crib and called it a good day's work. And yet she had to stand helplessly by while Henry did the honors in what amounted to a tantrum kill.

There should have been an Eowyn-like loop-hole for Abbie to wield the sword and kill Moloch.

The whole things tastes like flat beer.

Yes. I think the focus on Katrina and Jeremy has removed the emotional core from this show because I don't give a damn about either of them. Having Henry kill moloch is not emotionally satisfying. It carries no weight.

I also care nothing about their family drama. Crane I liked with Irving but Jenny and Abby were weirdly sidelined the whole episode except Abby's speech and last minute reaction to Irving.

The only crane I care about is Ichabod and Katrina breaking up. Hallelujah.

Eta, Katrina's outfit is stupid. Buy a real shirt dumbass.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Shanna

[wayne67]

Did they ever clarify why Henry had an Avatar other than being averse to physical confrontation because of being a stereotypical mage?

 

I'm fanwanking that Henry had an Avatar because he was alive and had sold his soul to Moloch for extra magic power and his Avatar was a physical manifestation/extension of his soul. Explaining why it needed a flaming sword when it should theoretically be shooting fireballs.

 

As for Abraham he was forcibly conscripted as a Hessian, died having his soul sold to Moloch in return for Katrina and came back as a partially reanimated corpse which works on a couple of levels for a Horseman of Death. Instrument of Death and technically dead.

 

Anyone got a canon explanation ? or a better fan wank ?

 

I'm still puzzled as to what the cliff hanger of this mid finale is supposed to be ? The apocalypse was stopped/stalled by Henry for whatever reason and there are even less dramatic stakes for the following episodes. Are we supposed to be worried about something now ? I'm baffled.

Edited December 2, 2014 by wayne67

[HalcyonDays]

Ha! This made me laugh. Someone introduced this:  #KatrinaRuinedSleepyHollow

 

And #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter still going strong.

[proserpina65]

If you look at #SleepyHollow while the show is airing it's definitely not a Katrina love-fest. I love the snark.

EW.com's comment section on the Sleepy Hollow recap for this episode is equally full of Katrina loathing.

[Iboatedhere]

Since Katrina was the one that put the spell on Ichabod that let him come back to life when Headless was summoned why couldn't she do the same with Irving? Then he would be mostly dead instead of all dead. The group could work on a way to bring him back. Ichabod coming back to life was an accident- surly they could figure out a way to do it on purpose. And it's not like anyone's going to be like 'hey, where's Frank?' He's already on the run.

 

(I know the answer is because Katrina blows but I just thought I'd ask...)

Edited December 2, 2014 by Iboatedhere

[FormerMod-a1]

Since Katrina was the one that put the spell on Ichabod that let him come back to life when Headless was summoned why couldn't she do the same with Irving?

 Katrina put the spell on Ichabod to save him.  It was supposed to just put him in stasis (or something).  But since their blood was intertwined, it also did the same thing to Abraham/Headless/Death.  She was only trying to save Ichabod and messed up.  (I don't know why no one thought to try it on Irving though, except we've seen her powers are pretty weak now-a-days.)

 

To continue on the timeline... Then, a few years later, Katrina abandons Jeremey, but as he continues to grow the coven is scared of Jeremy.  However, since they can't kill him, they put him in a kind of stasis by stopping his heart.

 

Fast forward a couple of centuries (to pretty much now) and Moloch find Jeremey/Henry and saves him to use him.  He (Moloch) feels strong enough or ready enough to try to start the Apocalypse again and raises the horseman of Death, which also then raises Ichabod since they are tied together.  And then you have the beginning of our show.

[caprice]

I am... surprisingly good with all of this. Yes, I'm thoroughly unimpressed by Katrina, but last night worked for me.

 

Ichabod looked like a kid at Christmas when he was getting off the motorcycle. The bit about, "But where do I buckle" was funny and I want him to have a motorcycle, too.

 

Hurrah at finding a purpose for Hawley! Yes, let him bring the weaponry, then let him babysit (and he read that line very well) Headless.

 

Although I cried bitter tears at Frank's death, if he had to go, that was the way to do it. Of course, I hope they find a way to bring him back, but still.... Crane trying to talk him into staying, "You're the Captain, that's what captains do... they fight," complete with a little break in his voice, was moving and a beautiful note.

 

To go with that, the look on Jones' face. Wow. His eyes telling Crane to keep the fight going, along with a healthy measure of, "Are you shitting me? I'm dying here."

 

Why was Katrina with them? Because Crane bellowed for her. They knew that her magic was weakening because the Four White Trees were being darkened, still, she was the best shot at trying to at least stabilize the bleeding. Also, she wasn't completely useless in the battle scene (oh, god, I'm becoming a Katrina Apologist). When Abbie went down after being shot, Katrina held off the zombie soldier long enough for Crane to come in while Jenny helped her sister to safety.

 

For me, all I want for Christmas is a big-ass sword so that I can stare down m. caprice and deadpan, "I've got this."

[Bad Bitch In Red]

Where is The Kindred?!

Where potentially good story lines go to die.

[BestestAuntEver]

If it is any consolation I am pretty sure that they aren't moving into a monster of the week format. Rather, I think the show will remain the witness protection program and the team will just end up fighting different flavors of apocalypse. I am actually pretty happy that Moloch bought it because he was too undynamic and remote to actually function as a compelling big bad.

If this pans out, or allowing Abbie or Jenny to kill Moloch, who has cost them and their ancestors so much was a waste/loss/pathetic planning/writing

[theatremouse]

Here's my problem, and it actually starts with the episode "Mama" (even though I mostly liked that episode): when they establish that a character is dead on the show (except for the main-premise resurrections of not really deadness) and they establish an emotional state in important characters based on a particular death, they really need to keep that character dead. So, part of Abbie's identity was a girl with a dead mother. This is a big deal. That loss shaped much of her character.

 

Then they have that same dead mother show up. Sure she's a spirit trapped in whatever. But she's there. Abbie and Jenny can interact with her. Even though they lose her all over again once that ep's resolved, they've basically established than no one dead is off the table ever. They can always show up for some magical reason or another.

 

Now you might argue, the main premise already does that, but I'm not quite sold that that's the case. If part of the point is "special main character and it doesn't apply to everybody", they can leave it at that.

 

But by opening this door with the mother showing up, they've basically opened it for everything. Ie instead of Irving's death being big and dramatic and sad, my first impulse was, well, there's a decent chance they'll undo it somehow. Because they've already established this pattern. So even when they're trying to use death a moment that initially seems final they've already convinced me that it's not. It is no longer the crushing blow it ought to be because I don't trust the writers and their world building that there will be any consistent sense of when dead is actually dead or not. Even if they have no intention of bringing him back, zombified or poltergeist or hellion or otherwise, even if this really was supposed to be a dramatic, epic, heroic loss and dead that's really dead, they've already undermined their ability to tell me that. I'm already thinking of 19 (clunky) ways they can undo it and wouldn't be shocked by any of them, and I don't feel like I'm grasping at a futile hope for a character I liked. I'm just distrusting the storytelling. 

 

Sucks. I wanted to love this show. I feel so disillusioned.

[Indi]

"Sleepy Hollow: The Stakes Have Never Been Lower"

 

What am I supposed to look forward to? The Apocalypse has been averted. The main characters are safe. A supporting character has been dropped like trash, no development to his sacrifice and left to die looking at a complete stranger in the middle of the episode.

 

This is the opposite of a cliffhanger, this is a lame end to a lame series on the lamest network.

 

What's next? Watch the Cranes reconnect, while Abbie does police work in the background and keeps getting ignored? Do they think Henry's conflicted ~feelings~ are what we're waiting for with baited breath? Is this the show they want?

[FormerMod-a1]

I in no way thing the Apocalypse has been averted.  It's merely been slowed down.

[Tippi Blevins]

So, if destroying the Horseman of War doesn't actually kill Henry, then pretty much anyone could have wielded the sword against him, since it's the act of taking a life that requires the wielder to sacrifice his own life or soul. Right? Poor Irving. That makes his death even more tragic, because everyone else would have just died, but he gets to die and either become an evil minion or go to hell since his soul was already signed away.

 

Here's another problem I have with that fight: How did the Cranes know that killing the robo-armor wouldn't also kill their precious baby? Henry and that armor were linked. Henry seemed to feel pain when the armor was being chopped up. If the Cranes were intent on saving Henry, shouldn't they have been more reluctant to attack the robo-armor? 

 

Does Moloch have a boss? Because if so, he or she should be piiiissed.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Tippi Blevins

[savinggrace]

Wow. I finally got around to watching. I don't bother doing this show live anymore.

 

It was painful watching the attempt to assert Katrina's superiority over The Mills Sisters. Jenny does the research and determines the scenario about the sword's effect on souls so Ichabod then has to go and get the final word from Katrina? This is the second time Struggle Witch failed to notice important script on an enchanted object-- remember "Heartless"? 

 

Of course they have Abbie immediately injured in the battle so Katrina could upstage her. Having Katrina's opinions take precedence over Abbie's is ludicrous. Since when is the WIFE of one of the co-leads allowed to take over a show? The X-files would have been off the air in 1 season if they gave Mulder a needy, ineffective wife and spent more time developing her character than Scully. All the moments that should have been taken up with Abbie and Crane strategizing with their team were replaced with Crane and Katrina going on about their relationship. The writers are desperate to redeem a character that no one gives a shit about.

 

Jenny and Irving did the most with the thankless roles they were given. Both have been more useful in their limited screen time than Katrina has been in 2 seasons. I'm still bitterly disappointed the writers removed Irving from his post as police chief with the ridiculous demo-possession story. As others have said his death didn't resonate because there are at least 4 characters on the show who should be dead but aren't (side-eying the entire Crane crew plus Abraham). No one else on this show engages the fans in social media like Orlando so if they don't revive his character someone they've lost a valuable promotional tool.

 

Add Hawley to the more useful list as well. I still have no issues with him. I enjoy the moments of levity he provides and the capable backup he's provided Team Witness. Plus, unlike Katrina, I don't feel like he hinders the story --or Team Witness.  After taking a few episodes to establish Hawley's trustworthiness he's become a good background, supporting character. Team Witness needs to expand their circle. Hopefully they can find a capable Wiccan or priestess in Sleepy Hollow to compensate for the worthless witch they've been saddled with.

 

I don't even care about Henry/Moloch. The plot was tired and I'm not looking forward to more Henry next year.

Edited December 2, 2014 by savinggrace

[marceline]

I was going back looking at tweets from the finale and I saw one where somebody mentioned how the show was sending a message because Moloch chose to unleash hell on earth by turning the white trees black. It's even worse because when you get to the scene in the woods Abbie, Jenny and Ichabod are all tied to black trees and Katrina is tied to the white one. I laughed because it's a perfect example of how the show's tone-deafness comes across to so many of the fans.

[HalcyonDays]

I was going back looking at tweets from the finale and I saw one where somebody mentioned how the show was sending a message because Moloch chose to unleash hell on earth by turning the white trees black. It's even worse because when you get to the scene in the woods Abbie, Jenny and Ichabod are all tied to black trees and Katrina is tied to the white one. I laughed because it's a perfect example of how the show's tone-deafness comes across to so many of the fans.

 

Well, I see what you are saying but I didn't see it like that. When trees burn, they turn black. It's just what they do. Also, putting Katrina against the lone unburned tree was just an echo to burning witches at the stake, and for Henry to look like he was going to kill his mother. I didn't see any racial tone deafness here. It's like saying well, Irving was killed at night - how appropriate cause he's black. No, the sun went down, therefore the sky becomes black. It's just the way it is.

 

I will question why Moloch in season 1 in Purgatory is white, yet in season 2, is a dark skinned demon. That is strange and tone deaf.

[Sandman]

Not to defend what the show is doing with Katrina, but I think at least part of the problem is that the writers found themselves in a tight spot once the decision was made not to kill off Katrina in the pilot. It's one thing to use magic as part of the premise, but once Katrina was alive and interacting with the Witnesses, actually having a stupendously powerful witch on the team changes the balance of the plot too much. All of the limits on Katrina's powers are there for completely plot-derived reasons, so as not to have everything solved by magic, and that leaves us with being told one thing ("Katrina's powerful!") and being shown the exact opposite ("Katrina's a less useful version of Aunt Clara from Bewitched!") (Also: I'm old.) It's a fundamental problem, as well as a rookie mistake.

 

I actually don't even mind Ichabod's scruples about killing his own son so much; I do object to Henry's being turned into a whiny brat.

 

But where does Katrina's nickname "Struggle Witch" come from? I feel like I've missed something along the way.

[cassandle]

Why was Katrina with them? Because Crane bellowed for her. They knew that her magic was weakening because the Four White Trees were being darkened, still, she was the best shot at trying to at least stabilize the bleeding. 

 

Was one of her incarnations at the very beginning a nurse or was she just hanging around the battlefield when Ichabod was killed?  I expected her to use some actual medical training (rather than her completely useless "powers"), like, I don't know, trying to staunch the blood with a handkerchief or something other than her bare hands.  I'm no Revolutionary War era nurse but I know to put pressure on a wound for more than 3 seconds.  For some reason that pissed me off more than anything.  

 

Shut up, Katrina.

 

ETA:  And at least Aunt Clara had a doorknob collection--just put those suckers in a bag and conk the bad guys over the head.  It couldn't be any less effective than anything Katrina has done.

Edited December 2, 2014 by cassandle

[caprice]

Given the state of medicine during the Revolution, she would have been more effective pressing her hands to the wound, as she did, and attempting that incantation. We didn't see the exact wound (which I'm thankful for), and Frank was hit twice.

Unless someone had a really good first aid kit and some bags of blood, not even a big handkerchief was going to do much.

[Yolapukka]

As much as I haaaaaate that Crane is vulnerable to that snivelling stranger his sperm donation brought into being, I do think that we are never going to see him directly sacrifice his son at his own hand when the main antagonist was Moloch, an entity explicitly associated with human sacrifice, specifically that of children. Henry is not a baby but he is the child of the Cranes. It may be inportant that Ichabod be willing to sacrifice him, as was Abraham with Isaac, but i suspect that it would be a disastrous trap if he were to go through with it. Which is exactly why Abbie should have carried the sword and not been the distraction.They do play fast and loose with what they choose to honor from the Legend Of Sleepy Hollow and various theological references but I still think try to ground themselves a little bitty-bit in it. I will give Ichabod credit for being willing to kill Henry and offering him an out that could help them all, that Henry used the opportunity to turn the tables is something I will happily blame on Katrina just for being present, running her know-it-all mouth, merely standing there and breathing and distracting Ichabod with her shining five-head.  

Edited December 3, 2014 by yuggapukka

[chrisvee]

Not to defend what the show is doing with Katrina, but I think at least part of the problem is that the writers found themselves in a tight spot once the decision was made not to kill off Katrina in the pilot. It's one thing to use magic as part of the premise, but once Katrina was alive and interacting with the Witnesses, actually having a stupendously powerful witch on the team changes the balance of the plot too much. All of the limits on Katrina's powers are there for completely plot-derived reasons, so as not to have everything solved by magic, and that leaves us with being told one thing ("Katrina's powerful!") and being shown the exact opposite ("Katrina's a less useful version of Aunt Clara from Bewitched!") (Also: I'm old.) It's a fundamental problem, as well as a rookie mistake.

I think you're exactly right about the reason for Katrina's Magic Problem. That said, while I understand it, the writers get no pass from me because this was their decision to keep her and the character -- despite tremendous effort on their part -- is killing the show. Katrina is even ruining the Lightning in a Bottle chemistry of Ichabbie and turning fans against Ichabod. Too much milk is split and the only solution is for them to get rid of the character.

StruggleWitch is a hilarious Twitter hashtag that was born a few weeks ago. Wish I knew who came up with it!

Edited December 3, 2014 by chrisvee

[cynic]

Not to defend what the show is doing with Katrina, but I think at least part of the problem is that the writers found themselves in a tight spot once the decision was made not to kill off Katrina in the pilot. It's one thing to use magic as part of the premise, but once Katrina was alive and interacting with the Witnesses, actually having a stupendously powerful witch on the team changes the balance of the plot too much. All of the limits on Katrina's powers are there for completely plot-derived reasons, so as not to have everything solved by magic, and that leaves us with being told one thing ("Katrina's powerful!") and being shown the exact opposite ("Katrina's a less useful version of Aunt Clara from Bewitched!") (Also: I'm old.) It's a fundamental problem, as well as a rookie mistake.

I actually don't even mind Ichabod's scruples about killing his own son so much; I do object to Henry's being turned into a whiny brat.

But where does Katrina's nickname "Struggle Witch" come from? I feel like I've missed something along the way.

I agree that having a powerful witch in this show is difficult to write for and that's where a lot of the trouble stems from. The writers inexplicable desire to focus on her and Katia Winters' inadequate performance just makes a difficult situation even worse. And then they double down on the awful by damseling her every other episode. Seriously, it's gotten ridiculous at this point. Katrina was tied up and in peril twice this episode.

And yeah, what does Struggle Witch mean?

Edited December 3, 2014 by cynic

[marceline]

Well, I see what you are saying but I didn't see it like that. When trees burn, they turn black. It's just what they do. Also, putting Katrina against the lone unburned tree was just an echo to burning witches at the stake, and for Henry to look like he was going to kill his mother. I didn't see any racial tone deafness here. It's like saying well, Irving was killed at night - how appropriate cause he's black. No, the sun went down, therefore the sky becomes black. It's just the way it is.

 

I will question why Moloch in season 1 in Purgatory is white, yet in season 2, is a dark skinned demon. That is strange and tone deaf.

 

Sorry I should clarify. I meant that the tone-deafness the show has displayed in the past has created a situation where things that are simple feel nefarious because they've lost the trust of the audience on such a fundamental level.

 

Re Moloch, the black version of him reminded me so much of The Beast from Angel that I was utterly distracted. I kept waiting for Faith to show up and kick his ass. 

 

 

StruggleWitch is a hilarious Twitter hashtag that was born a few weeks ago. Wish I knew who came up with it!

 

I like StruggleWitch but my favorite nickname is WhisperTits.

Edited December 3, 2014 by marceline

[savinggrace]

For those asking , placing "Struggle" in front of any noun denotes a failure to be whatever that noun represents. For example a plate of gross looking food on Thanksgiving would be a Struggle Plate. A bad wig would be a Struggle Wig. Katrina being the very definition of a failure as a witch would be a Struggle Witch.

[HalcyonDays]

Not to defend what the show is doing with Katrina, but I think at least part of the problem is that the writers found themselves in a tight spot once the decision was made not to kill off Katrina in the pilot. It's one thing to use magic as part of the premise, but once Katrina was alive and interacting with the Witnesses, actually having a stupendously powerful witch on the team changes the balance of the plot too much. All of the limits on Katrina's powers are there for completely plot-derived reasons, so as not to have everything solved by magic, and that leaves us with being told one thing ("Katrina's powerful!") and being shown the exact opposite ("Katrina's a less useful version of Aunt Clara from Bewitched!") (Also: I'm old.) It's a fundamental problem, as well as a rookie mistake.

 

I actually don't even mind Ichabod's scruples about killing his own son so much; I do object to Henry's being turned into a whiny brat.

 

But where does Katrina's nickname "Struggle Witch" come from? I feel like I've missed something along the way.

 

I don't think the writers were in a tight spot at all. I think the writers were just not creative at all on what they could have done with her. She could have been actually evil or shady, and deviously playing both sides. This would then perfectly explain her behaviour in season one. She could have her own purposes for wanting Ichabod to resurrect in the 21st century, or why she's adamant to keep Henry alive (something more sinister). Instead, the writers did uncreative and boring storytelling and utilized typical TV tropes.

 

Like, we saw Headless riding off with her at the end of season 1. The first season 2 episode could have had her now wake up on the horse, give a little smile and say something that tells us she is evil and was in on the whole thing. Then you could expand out what her real motivations are, and have her playing both sides. They had an amazing opportunity and squandered it.

 

As for StruggleWitch, I always thought it as "She Struggles to Witch" - i.e. struggles to actually be able to do any actual magic.

[RiddleyWalker]

Late to the party (or wake) but wanted to throw out my thoughts on the episode. Sorry, I was out with Hawley at this bar doing Tequila shots and this…oh, never mind.

 

I didn't hate the episode first off.  Lowered expectations can keep the anger and disappointment at bay so it's worth remembering. ;)

There's only so much they could do with this episode given the set-up this season. 

 

General thoughts and impressions...

 

Were all those MoTW episodes just so that there could be a pentagram on Henry's little HO train layout? Yes, yes, the episodes provided back-story, character exposition, yada yada, but all I could see was a group of writers rubbing their hands while thinking of how to get that pentagram in place for the fall Finale.

 

Irving died….hmmm. Not moved, not mad and not really surprised because….HE DIDN'T REALLY DIE! (not "die", die). Yes I love Irving but he never killed any creature with a soul (that I can tell) so his soul is still Henry's who is on the way to being redeemed and will undoubtedly (as part of his redemption) resurrect Irving and give up his right to Irving's soul. Maybe he'll dramatically throw the document into a blazing fire! I may be wrong, but we haven't seen the last of Frank Irving.

 

Moloch died! That's a big one and offers the show a chance to reboot if they do it right. I understand from that Goffman interview they plan on bringing in different traditions which I think could help make the show "bigger"…but may lead to just more diverse MoTW episodes. On the plus side, we'll have a chance to experience that uncertainty as Team Witness tries to understand what's going on and what the new threat is which we had in S1, but eventually, they need to firm up the mythology and get down to business.

 

Katrina…so much hatred for her here and so well deserved! I submit a different viewpoint here which makes watching the show some much easier, though. Katrina is not a "lead", she's not Ichabod's love interest, she's comic relief! Think about it--would anyone write such an ineffective, unlikeable, irritating character for any other reason? The awesome magical katana that doesn't get used? Give it to Katrina! Someone dying in need of magical assistance but he needs to die for plot purposes? Katrina! Someone with a voice to set your teeth on edge and make you want to turn the channel? Katrina! (The writers may not have actually wanted her for that, though).

 

That's it for now...