Mr. Selfridge - General Discussion

[JudyObscure]

I guess Kitty and Frank are going to end their lives with one of those marriages where he cheated once so she gets her way about everything for the rest of her life. Sounds depressing to me, but they seemed happy when they drove off.  I always liked them since they were first flirting over pretend purchases at her counter.  At least they started out lovingly.  I really can't stand the sort of romance Merle and her guy are going into.  She acts like a total bitch around him and he adores her for it.  It makes me dislike both of them.

I had to check Wikipedia to see if they really bought Whiteleys.  They did.  Each week I think they're totally broke and the next week they have big money again.  Why doesn't my money work that way?

[txhorns79]

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I had to check Wikipedia to see if they really bought Whiteleys.  They did.  Each week I think they're totally broke and the next week they have big money again.  Why doesn't my money work that way?

I think he got the money from selling all the regional stores.  Though I agree that it's a little too roller coaster-ish for my tastes.  And I didn't really understand why Gordon would be all into going in on one of his father's risky deals after he just saw all the damage his father's terrible spending habits had on the family and company. 

I rolled my eyes at the Kitty and Frank stuff.  I guess they wanted them to go out with a happy ending, and apparently couldn't write something better than Kitty totally forgiving Frank for no real reason.

[Micks Picks]

Oh I am missing the days of the married Mr. Selfridge.  I knew going in more or less how it would end, and it is so sad.  All that is great about him is becoming puny.  What a shame.

 

On the series they show Pa and Gordon quite open about his marriage and children, and I didn't think that was how it was at all.

[Pickles]

That was a depressing episode.

[KLovestoShop]

I thought it was a very touching episode, very well written and acted.  

[SusanSunflower]

I liked it very much as well. There seemed to be a bit more room for the characters to breathe and react/interact ... very nice and warm send-off for Mr. Grove and his family. 

[JudyObscure]

Oh, Mr. Groves.  I may be his only fan, but I saw him through Josie's eyes and always thought he was sexy as hell.

At least my first love, Mr. Crabb soldiers on.  I only hope that, for when it all hits the fan, he and the Mrs. have a safe little nest egg tucked away in the four percents.

Run Lady Mae, save yourself!  I do hope, when she reinstates Tilly, she makes her the boss of those catty little gossips in the basement.

[Brattinella]

I loved it when he accepted her resignation!  Woohoo!   Nasty thing.

I was weeping almost all the way through this episode, but I still loved it.  I always thought Mr Grove looked like Van Gogh.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I always thought Mr Grove looked like Van Gogh.

I thought so, too.  I thought he was handsome.  I think I'm one of the few who actually liked Mr. Grove.  He had his flaws, but Josie loved him and that's all that mattered.  I felt even worse for Mr. Crabb because he lost his dear friend and co-worker.  I loved Mr. Crabb's wife and how she fussed over him. 

I hope Tilly is made the boss.

[txhorns79]

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I thought so, too.  I thought he was handsome.  I think I'm one of the few who actually liked Mr. Grove.  He had his flaws, but Josie loved him and that's all that mattered.

I liked Mr. Grove.  I will say that no matter what, Josie deserved better than him, but if she could make her peace with him, so can I.   

As to the rest, I presume Jimmy and Whiteley's will be what destroys Harry this time.  I doubt he'll be able to come back from it. 

[Ohwell]

I like Josie now, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that she "deserved better" than Mr. Grove.

As I recall, and in spite of the way he treated her in the past, she inserted herself into his life by becoming friends with his wife, until his wife (conveniently) got killed in an accident.  I didn't like Josie much then because I thought she was just "lurking"  and once Mr. Grove was, once again, "free" after his wife's death, Josie was right there.  She never wanted to be out of his life.  So while I was happy that they finally got together, I don't think Mr. Grove acted any "worse" than she did.   

[Arwen Evenstar]

So glad that Mae and Mr. Grove put the Tilly situation right.  I'm sure a good many of us on this forum know what it's like to bullied at work.  Did a fist pump when that nasty little guttersnipe who'd been bullying poor Tilly got "hers".

[zoey1996]

In the beginning, Mr. Grove was cheating with Miss Mardle when his first wife was an invalid.  When she died, Mr. Grove jilted Miss Mardle in favor of Doris, who was young enough to have children, but asked Josie (Miss Mardle) to be his mistress on the side.  She declined and was very hurt because Mr. Grove had more or less promised to marry her when his wife was gone, but then reneged.  I think Josie was aware Roger (Mr. Grove) was married in the beginning, but I don't recall with certainty.  In any case, Josie was in the wrong to be with a married man, but Roger was wrong to be with Josie while his wife was ill.  It was when Roger jilted Josie to marry Doris that I began to think that she deserved better.

I don't recall the motivation for Josie being friends with Doris, but they really did become friends.  The youngest son was the result of an affair that Doris had, and Roger was very judgmental about that even though he'd also had (at least) one affair.  Josie tried to get Roger to accept the youngest and continue to raise him as his own.

Somewhere between Season 1 and Season 3, Josie inherited a house in London as well as the means to live well as a single woman.  She fell in love with a much younger tenant, and had her heart broken once again.  (I seem to recall Florian went off to war and died.)  I have a lot of sympathy for Josie due to all she's endured. 

[Ohwell]

I remember when she fell in love with the younger tenant, and had her heart broken.  However, I still don't see that what Josie did made her any less culpable than what Mr. Grove did.  (I had even forgotten that she was dating him when he was married.)  And I still don't see that it was any of her business to interfere with Mr. Grove and Doris and the son.  That was their marital issue.  I think she just wanted to stay in Mr. Grove's life, however peripheral, and even if it meant being friends with his wife.  

Edited May 10, 2016 by Ohwell

[wineaux]

This one on YouTube is very good.   It's an hour long but well worth the time spent watching it.

REVEAL Truth of Selfridges department store

[txhorns79]

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And I still don't see that it was any of her business to interfere with Mr. Grove and Doris and the son.  That was their marital issue.  I think she just wanted to stay in Mr. Grove's life, however peripheral, and even if it meant being friends with his wife.  

That might have been easier said than done.  I think Doris basically had brought Josie into it, and then Josie got stuck with the baby when Mr. Grove decided he wanted nothing to do with him. 

[Ohwell]

58 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

That might have been easier said than done.  I think Doris basically had brought Josie into it, and then Josie got stuck with the baby when Mr. Grove decided he wanted nothing to do with him. 

Yes I seem to remember that Josie was kind of sucked into it at first, but she should have gently pulled the plug and extricated herself from the situation, IMO.  I think that if she had been honest with herself, she would have realized that she wanted to be close to Mr. Grove.

[dcalley]

On 5/9/2016 at 1:26 PM, Brattinella said:

I was weeping almost all the way through this episode, but I still loved it.  I always thought Mr Grove looked like Van Gogh.

I'm surprised the actor's never played him (not that the role comes up that often, but the resemblance is there!).

[JudyObscure]

My dream is for Lady Mae to play Wallis Simpson http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG8835907/p/rexfeatures_774662_2031042a.jpg

[Brattinella]

Well, I have to say, when Mr Grove reneged on his promise to marry Josie, he was on my shit list.  He was a cad of the first water in that instance, I don't care that he wanted more children.  Josie was pretty gracious about it, too, as I recall.  I think Josie and Doris were co-workers to start, weren't they?  Almost friends, I think.

Anyway, Mr Grove saved his reputation in my eyes by finally getting it right with Josie.  They were glorious for an all-too-short time.

[Brattinella]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

My dream is for Lady Mae to play Wallis Simpson http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG8835907/p/rexfeatures_774662_2031042a.jpg

Oooh!  That would be a PERFECT role for the lovely lady!  I would watch her in anything, I swear.

[Arwen Evenstar]

On May 12, 2016 at 5:35 PM, JudyObscure said:

My dream is for Lady Mae to play Wallis Simpson http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG8835907/p/rexfeatures_774662_2031042a.jpg

I agree with you and Brattinella - The actress who plays Lady Mae would be a dead ringer for Wallis Simoson...I love English Bulldogs BTW

[Brattinella]

It's funny, when I first saw Lady Mae, I thought she was funny-looking, even ugly.  I don't know if her part got better, or her makeup artist got better, or if I started loving her character, but not long after, I think she is gorgeous!

[Quilt Fairy]

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I don't know if her part got better, or her makeup artist got better

Mae is one of the few women who got an attractive hairstyle this season. All those 20's marcelled waves look just hideous.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[LittleIggy]

On May 14, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

I agree with you and Brattinella - The actress who plays Lady Mae would be a dead ringer for Wallis Simoson...I love English Bulldogs BTW

Wallis Simpson was homely. The actress playing Mae definitely is not. 

[LittleIggy]

On May 13, 2016 at 0:15 AM, Brattinella said:

Oooh!  That would be a PERFECT role for the lovely lady!  I would watch her in anything, I swear.

She is in the mini-series "The Night Manager" starring Tom Hiddleston (swoon!) and Hugh Laurie. Not a huge part, but it was interesting to see her in modern clothes.

[Quilt Fairy]

38 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

She is in the mini-series "The Night Manager" starring Tom Hiddleston (swoon!) and Hugh Laurie. Not a huge part, but it was interesting to see her in modern clothes.

Who did she play? I missed her entirely.

[Quilt Fairy]

Aaaaaaaaand.... another character bites the dust.  Can't say I mind, I never liked Jimmy, and I thought the relative ease with which he mingled in upper class British society was a distinct anachronism.  As a mixed-race person, he most likely would have been called a half-breed at best, and very possibly the n-word.

[SusanSunflower]

Anyone know if Selfridge was actually such a Dudley-Do-Right's naif or if we're watching a cleaned up American hero version of this story?  Aside from the gambling and women, Harry's such a paragon of American forthright virtue of positive thinking and family values ... at least in public. The model of an American capitalist... except for the gambling and women which seem to be locked away under the "personal and private life"  provision.  Just a fun-loving sex-obsessed American ... American as apple pie. 

[BusyOctober]

I saw the PBS biography of the real Harry Selfridge and I got the impression he was an megalomaniac asshole.  He did have a lot of success, but I think his ego got in his way.  He was a gambler, a womanizer and basically disowned his only son for marrying an employee of his store. He never met his grandchildren because the son never told him. I don't remember if he had a relationship with his daughters.  Harry Selfridge was thrown out of his company by his board for mismanagement and for racking up huge debts and playing with the books.  He died penniless, which is sad considering the vast wealth he had accumulated.
PBS has really painted over the real Selfridge with a very broad and kind brush in order to make this a soapy drama. And of course, the timeline has been extremely kind to some of these characters.  Harry Selfridge & Mae specifically.  Harry should be in his 70's at this point in the story,yet Piven looks like he hasn't aged past 45 years old.

While I have enjoyed many of the characters - all the store employees - I haven't liked ANY of the Selfridge family members since the beginning.  I'll keep watching til the end, but I don't enjoy it like I did the first season.

[SusanSunflower]

Making Harry Jimmy's victim, after suggesting that the Dolly sisters took advantage of his generosity undermines his genius .... unless they wanted to show that 70+ year old Harry was simply aging badly in the "unsurpassed business judgment" department.   I had thought that the transfer of inventory had been going on with Selfridge's knowledge (and I don't believe in real-life it would have been done without his approval).   I was baffled by his suggestion to Jimmy that "if only he had been told, known sooner .... " it seemed to me that things had already moved well past the point of no return wrt things Selfridge knew about ... 

Edited May 16, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[JudyObscure]

I've seen "I Love Lucy," episodes that were less ludicrous.  Sales clerk pays for a dozen circus employees at a day's notice.  I guess he found them on Craig's List.  Why he, or anyone, likes the thoroughly obnoxious Meryl is a mystery in the first place.  She's never done anything but yell at him and she looks so particularly ugly when she yells.  But then where would they all be without the young ones to set them straight?  Meryl understands the stages of grief and  instructs Josie about it.  Rosalie, who married a gold digger,  gets all up in her father's sex life.  Jimmy talks Mr. Crabb into forgetting a lifetime of honest, conservative business practices and  George's wife can have a baby and be sitting straight up  on her stiches an hour later.

I was hoping the ending would be a realistic portrayal of a man who was brilliant and innovative but ultimately took too many risks and let his weaknesses take over.  Instead we're getting these silly, anachronistic soap opera stories.

One thing that hasn't changed through the whole series is the worship of retail.  In real life these people worked horrific hours, sometimes standing on their feet for 16 hours a day, listening to rich women take ages to decide if they wanted the beige or the gray.  Yet, Josie must miss all that  so much and be so terribly bored managing a household, a beautiful garden and servants.

Edited May 17, 2016 by JudyObscure

[LittleIggy]

Katherine Kelly played the "Permanent Secretary" in the Night Manager. She was the boss of Angela's boss, one of those sketchy government people.

[Brattinella]

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

She is in the mini-series "The Night Manager" starring Tom Hiddleston (swoon!) and Hugh Laurie. Not a huge part, but it was interesting to see her in modern clothes.

Very cool!  That series will probably appear on my acorn one of these days; can't wait!

[txhorns79]

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Yet, Josie must miss all that  so much and be so terribly bored managing a household, a beautiful garden and servants.

It may indeed be boring for her.  She seemed to enjoy working at the store, so I could see why she might want to return, at least to give herself some normalcy. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Wallis Simpson was homely. The actress playing Mae definitely is not. 

I totally agree with you on that score.  Lady Mae would definitely lend some class and beauty to the role. I think her slenderness and stature make her well suited to play Wallis.

[Arwen Evenstar]

As much as I enjoy the characters like Mae, Tilly, Mr. Crabb, Grove, Kitty, and Josie, I find the story is more about them than Selfridge.  Even though the story without the employees would be meaningless, the reason for the critique is we have one episode left....and we haven't yet seen Harry quite yet spiral down his road to ruin as his story goes...they could have made 3 or 4 episodes about that, but they filled it up with Jimmy and Victor and other stories...good stories but too much time spent on them...so let's just do the finale at warp speed and hope the viewers don't notice. 

I would have liked more about his daughters' marriages, since Rosalie and Violette married into titles. Jenny Dolly was integral to the story line.  Though I appreciate some creative license with the story line, I think this series isn't up to the usual Masterpiece Theatre standards in that regard.

[txhorns79]

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and we haven't yet seen Harry quite yet spiral down his road to ruin as his story goes...

I'd disagree.  They have shown Harry in pretty dire financial straits this season, largely as a result of his poor decision making.  He chose to make a movie with the Dolly Sisters over paying off his gambling debts, leading to the store being vandalized and the debt collectors showing up at his house.  He rushed into buying Whiteley's without realizing the store was heavily in debt, again leaving him without resources to do much once the situation became clear.  Now that Jimmy's scheme to secretly replenish merchandise at Whiteley's was found out, I'd say he's pretty much done at Selfridge's.   

[SusanSunflower]

What's missing is for Harry to recognize the impending -- unavoidable at this point -- catastrophe and realize his responsibility for  it. Which may be something that never happens (or happened in real life).  Did he ultimately spend the rest of his life blaming the Dolly Sisters and the bad luck of partnering with Evil Jimmy for his problems? 

Edited May 17, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[J-Man]

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the reason for the critique is we have one episode left.

According to my cable guide, the final episode is two hours, so unless it's padded with a bunch of PBS "extras," at least they'll have a bit longer to finalize everyone's storylines.

[howiveaddict]

When George's wife went into labor, did anyone else say "call the midwife!"?  

[j5cochran]

18 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

When George's wife went into labor, did anyone else say "call the midwife!"?  

Yep!  I loved that the midwife in the scene had a uniform that could have easily been the Poplar midwives' uniform from the 1920s!

[howiveaddict]

8 hours ago, j5cochran said:

Yep!  I loved that the midwife in the scene had a uniform that could have easily been the Poplar midwives' uniform from the 1920s!

I thought so too.  

[zoey1996]

On 5/16/2016 at 11:21 AM, BusyOctober said:

I don't remember if he had a relationship with his daughters.  Harry Selfridge was thrown out of his company by his board for mismanagement and for racking up huge debts and playing with the books.  He died penniless, which is sad considering the vast wealth he had accumulated.

While I have enjoyed many of the characters - all the store employees - I haven't liked ANY of the Selfridge family members since the beginning.  I'll keep watching til the end, but I don't enjoy it like I did the first season.

I read somewhere (can't find the reference just now) that he lived with Rosalie and her husband when he died.  He also had a relationship with Violette.

I very much liked Rose, his wife, and have read that the philandering, gambling, etc. were held in check while she and his mother Lois (liked her too) were still living.  I also liked the children as portrayed, but not all the time.  As with many details, they've played fast and loose with Harry and Gordon's relationship after his marriage.  I've read that Harry had never met his daughter-in-law, nor did he meet any of the children from that union.  Sad, especially considering his own father abandoned him and his mother.

[txhorns79]

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I've read that Harry had never met his daughter-in-law, nor did he meet any of the children from that union.  Sad, especially considering his own father abandoned him and his mother.

Yeah, you have to wonder about exactly what kind of moral code Harry lived by that he stepped out on his wife and spent money like a crazy person, but declined to meet his son's wife or his grandchildren. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

On May 17, 2016 at 5:19 AM, txhorns79 said:

I'd disagree.  They have shown Harry in pretty dire financial straits this season, largely as a result of his poor decision making.  He chose to make a movie with the Dolly Sisters over paying off his gambling debts, leading to the store being vandalized and the debt collectors showing up at his house.  He rushed into buying Whiteley's without realizing the store was heavily in debt, again leaving him without resources to do much once the situation became clear.  Now that Jimmy's scheme to secretly replenish merchandise at Whiteley's was found out, I'd say he's pretty much done at Selfridge's.   

That's why I said "quite yet".  We know Harry is already in trouble and the hounds are at his heels...we know he gets ousted and dies nearly penniless...but next to last episode shows him still at the helm. Even with 2 hours left, I don't see how all the loose ends will be tied up, unless we are going at warp speed. So 20 years of storyline will be squashed into 2 hours.

[txhorns79]

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Even with 2 hours left, I don't see how all the loose ends will be tied up, unless we are going at warp speed. So 20 years of storyline will be squashed into 2 hours.

The Masterpiece website says the episode is only one hour.  I didn't get the idea that they are going to cover the entire remaining portion of Selfridge's life in the final episode.

[SusanSunflower]

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I didn't get the idea that they are going to cover the entire remaining portion of Selfridge's life in the final episode.

Thank heaven for small favors .... We don't really need to see his "last breath," do we? 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

Thank heaven for small favors .... We don't really need to see his "last breath," do we? 

I don't think we need to see it to the end.  They'll likely oust him and there will be a paragraph telling us at the end that he died a few years after his ouster. THE END

[zoey1996]

The website says 60 minutes, but my tv schedule shows 2 hours.  Guess we'll find out!