S04.E08: Smash The Mirror Pt 1 / S04.E09: Smash The Mirror Pt 2

[KingOfHearts]

 

Hook understands Rumple. Most of the rest of the town is fooled. Emma semi-trusts Rumple because she thinks he is on the same side as her

Rumple has been on Emma's side most of the time, all the way back to S1, but only because it suited him. He's definitely not on her side now, what with trying to suck her into the hat and all. I think now she might still be giving him a bone because he's Henry's grandfather.

[Curio]

Rumple has been on Emma's side most of the time, all the way back to S1, but only because it suited him. He's definitely not on her side now, what with trying to suck her into the hat and all. I think now she might still be giving him a bone because he's Henry's grandfather.

 

I know the heroes like to play stupid sometimes and give any villain who's a relative a "pass," but it'll be too much for me if they decide to give Rumple another chance after everything he's done in 4A. I don't even know if Belle will forgive him, so Emma better not throw him a bone. And now that we know that killing Hook is Rumple's last puzzle piece for letting go of the Dark One title, he'll be wanting to kill Hook for the rest of his life since Hook is the only person alive who knew Rumple before the dagger. Unless the Sorcerer's hat is destroyed or Rumple finds another loophole to get rid of the Dark One curse while still maintaining his powers, Hook will always be in danger of being killed. I doubt Emma will take that lightly.

[OnceUponAJen]

Couldn't Regina do that bit of magic she did for Henry and make it so that Hook's heart can't be taken again?

[YaddaYadda]

How stupid will everyone feel (Blue, Snowing...Rumple) when they are told that DQ came to the Land without Magic through a freakin' door?  I mean, a door!  Not a magic bean, not a portal, not silver slippers.  A DOOR!!!!

[MedievalGirl]

It is funny watching Frozen again after the last episode of Once. We've watched it a million times but thinking about what Elsa says to Emma while watching Let it Go was kind of cool. 

[HoodlumSheep]

The villains probably all took lessons in villainy from Yzma. Who wants to accomplish their evil schemes easily, when they have the option to turn their victims into fleas and put them in multiple boxes and mail it to themselves and smash them with a hammer? That sounds like so much more fun.

[Writing Wrongs]

Why did Ingrid need to say Rumpelstiltskin's name 3 times? That seemed cheesy. He's come before when someone's called.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why did Ingrid need to say Rumpelstiltskin's name 3 times? That seemed cheesy. He's come before when someone's called.

 

Maybe his day calendar was full and he didn't want a false summoning if she just so happened to mention his name to someone else? I don't know.

 

 

The villains probably all took lessons in villainy from Yzma. Who wants to accomplish their evil schemes easily, when they have the option to turn their victims into fleas and put them in multiple boxes and mail it to themselves and smash them with a hammer? That sounds like so much more fun.

Haha, yes. I think Once takes this a little too far though, because the villains start to look like total idiots. (See: Zelena) Cora was a perfect balance in that regard, imo. She got things done quickly and thoroughly, but she still relished in her evil.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mitch]

Why did Ingrid need to say Rumpelstiltskin's name 3 times? That seemed cheesy. He's come before when someone's called.

Its a call out to Beetlejuice, just like the statue of the Pazuzu (the demon from the Exorcist) was in Rump's "Chamber of Unspeakable Things."

 

I do like watching the show for those things, as you can sometimes forget the plot holes....

Edited November 18, 2014 by Mitch

[stealinghome]

Couldn't Regina do that bit of magic she did for Henry and make it so that Hook's heart can't be taken again?

Honestly, Regina should have done that spell for everyone on Team Good Guy the second they got back from Neverland, or the second she got her heart back from Zelena. That's the problem with magicking a solution to everything--now Regina looks like a huge dope for not doing it.

[Rumsy4]

I've been thinking about Hook's red heart and, as much as I love him, I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake from the special effects team. Hook sees himself as a villian and, just s few episodes ago, Rumple was talking about Hook's darkness, so a red heart should have surprised both of them.

I think Rumple's expression changed a little when he saw it. Hook probably doesn't know that bad deeds get you a dark heart. Besides, he was under a tiny bit of stress there. :-p We never saw Snow's Dark Spot when the heart-split happened, but it's still supposed to be there I think. I think the takeaway is that Hook doesn't have a black heart, and is not as bad as he thinks he is, or as Rumple thinks he is.

[Faemonic]

Couldn't Regina do that bit of magic she did for Henry and make it so that Hook's heart can't be taken again?

She should have done that on herself before the Zelena arc. Regina and Hook seemed to be platonically close (they've had two conversations about moral philosophy, one initiated by Regina; Hook always uses the highest royal title when talking to Regina or about Regina whereas Snow White is still just "milady", and Regina's the one bringing up to Emma how much Hook likes Emma when they were supposed to be focusing on Emma's magic lesson) but I think it got weird between them after Marian because those two just don't talk at all anymore. Regina's gone from "your majesty/highness" to "that woman" to Hook. And Hook to Regina seems like just Emma's arm candy now.

So there could actually be a good in-show reason for Regina not to do it, but I'm guessing that it's really the usual out-of-show reason that Regina didn't.

[AudienceofOne]

I thought that Regina was just angry that Emma seems to have gotten her happy ending in Hook about the same time she got her torn from her by fate.

 

*this statement in no way implies that this is either what happened or that Regina is not the worst.

[Shanna Marie]

I think Rumple's expression changed a little when he saw it. Hook probably doesn't know that bad deeds get you a dark heart. Besides, he was under a tiny bit of stress there. :-p We never saw Snow's Dark Spot when the heart-split happened, but it's still supposed to be there I think. I think the takeaway is that Hook doesn't have a black heart, and is not as bad as he thinks he is, or as Rumple thinks he is.

I wonder if the condition of the heart has something to do with the state it's in when it's taken. The dark spot showed up on Snow's heart at that time because she was dwelling on it, wallowing in guilt and in a downward spiral of despair. It wasn't there for the splitting because she was acting in love and hope, possibly sacrificing herself for someone she loves. Rumple took Hook's heart when Hook was overjoyed with the fact that Emma survived. He didn't care about his own fate in that moment, only about her, and he'd been willing to lose everything, even her love, to save her, so his heart was glowing red. Regina's heart always looks kind of gnarly because she still hasn't really worked out where she went wrong and is still blaming other people rather than herself for all her problems (that last bit may be my own interpretation, since the show doesn't seem to agree, but her heart always looks a little blotchy, so maybe the prop or SFX guys agree with me).

[iMonrey]

I still do not understand, especially after the latest flashbacks, why Elsa or anyone else thinks Anna might be somewhere in Storybrooke. The last we saw of Anna, she and Kristoff were frozen and stuck in Arendelle. Neither Regina nor Snow's curse would have brought them to Storybrooke - something Regina and Snow would know well enough to tell Elsa. We know why Anna's necklace was in Gold's shop, because he took it right after Ingrid froze her. And while Gold never gives up info unless there's something in it for him, I can't think of any reason why he shouldn't just tell Elsa Anna is still in Arendelle, frozen. Having Elsa pointlessly search for her in Storybrooke doesn't serve Gold any purpose.

[Faemonic]

I thought that Regina was just angry that Emma seems to have gotten her happy ending in Hook about the same time she got her torn from her by fate.

*this statement in no way implies that this is either what happened or that Regina is not the worst.

Yeah, but in my headcanon, Regina used to know that Hook was a person... so would blame him as a person and not just an abstract Karma Casino chip that Emma got when Regina didn't.

Of course, that latter and more simple explanation is probably what's actually on the screen. I could remove my shattered contact lenses, but I like what I'm projecting better.

Having Elsa pointlessly search for her in Storybrooke doesn't serve Gold any purpose.

If Elsa had been searching for Anna instead of convincing Emma to love herself, then Gold would have a fully-charged wizard's hat by now.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Faemonic

[Shanna Marie]

Having Elsa pointlessly search for her in Storybrooke doesn't serve Gold any purpose.

It makes for a good diversion. If Elsa and Emma and the Charmings are focused on finding Anna, they're not noticing what he's up to. Plus, admitting that he knows how he got the necklace and that it means Anna isn't in Storybrooke would mean admitting that he's been lying all along about not knowing anything about Elsa or Anna, and that would then reveal that Belle has a fake dagger since he had Belle "make" him tell the truth about knowing anything about Elsa, Anna or the Snow Queen. Once he told that one lie and used Belle to confirm it, he was committed to maintaining the lie. And there's really nothing in it for him to point out that the necklace being in his shop doesn't mean Anna is nearby. He might as well let them go on a wild goose chase.

[YaddaYadda]

I can't think of any reason why he shouldn't just tell Elsa Anna is still in Arendelle, frozen. Having Elsa pointlessly search for her in Storybrooke doesn't serve Gold any purpose.

 

But he's been lying from the word go about everything regarding Anna, Elsa and DQ.  He told them he had no idea who Elsa was which is sort of true, he's never see her, but he knew everything else, including that Ingrid used Troll magic to erase her memories.  He lied about Anna and Hook knows he's lying about not knowing DQ.  Plus there's really nothing in it for him telling anyone what he knows.  He's just not interested in helping anyone unless there's something he covets.

[Jean]

 

Cora was a perfect balance in that regard, imo. She got things done quickly and thoroughly, but she still relished in her evil.

I wouldn't call plotting for at least 20 years to get revenge on Eva quick or thorough. Her plan is as convoluted as Rumples' plans are and he was her teacher. I mean all that maneuvering to get to poison Eva so that kid Snow would get a dark heart with the candle and to get Leo's kingdom through marriage to her kid?

 

 

I think Once takes this a little too far though, because the villains start to look like total idiots.

Only because they give another solution that's about kindergarten levels of difficult. I mean Rumple's plan in S1 seemed brilliant until we got the million ways he could've crossed over. Like Ingrid making a deal with the Apprentice and walking through a fancy door.

[OnceUponAJen]

So there could actually be a good in-show reason for Regina not to do it, but I'm guessing that it's really the usual out-of-show reason that Regina didn't.

As an added bonus, I'm pretty sure Regina wouldn't mind messing up any of Rumple's future plans for that heart.

Edited November 18, 2014 by OnceUponAJen

[shapeshifter]

It wasn't only her dad, but also her mother Cora... and then the empty coffin of her previous boyfriend. It's also the same place where she kept and crushed Graham's heart.

Do you suppose they did it in her first bf's coffin?

Last crypt sex comment, I promise.

[Sabrina Nguyen]

After Gerda put Ingrid in the urn, Ingrid got out of the urn in episode 3 "Rocky Road." Hans meant to open the urn to capture Elsa but released Ingrid instead (then he got frozen Lol).

[InsertWordHere]

Felix's heart was bright red too. So was Cora's, even though she had already abandoned her baby in the woods before she took it out. Shrug.

[dr pepper]

I'm guessing that while adjusting to our world, Ingrid got a job standing around at Studio 54.

[Serena]

She should have done that on herself before the Zelena arc. Regina and Hook seemed to be platonically close (they've had two conversations about moral philosophy, one initiated by Regina; Hook always uses the highest royal title when talking to Regina or about Regina whereas Snow White is still just "milady", and Regina's the one bringing up to Emma how much Hook likes Emma when they were supposed to be focusing on Emma's magic lesson) but I think it got weird between them after Marian because those two just don't talk at all anymore. Regina's gone from "your majesty/highness" to "that woman" to Hook. And Hook to Regina seems like just Emma's arm candy now.

 

I've actually always found Hook's use of Regina's royal title as highly sarcastic. I think in the 3B premiere he was like "Congratulations, Your Majesty, you laid waste to all the lands".

[YaddaYadda]

Felix's heart was bright red too. So was Cora's, even though she had already abandoned her baby in the woods before she took it out. Shrug.

 

I can totally rationalize this.  Felix's body was in stasis in Neverland and Cora, when they wrote her, they had no clue they would give her a daughter she would abandon.  Tada! 

 

I've actually always found Hook's use of Regina's royal title as highly sarcastic. I think in the 3B premiere he was like "Congratulations, Your Majesty, you laid waste to all the lands".

Ditto.  He doesn't seem to care about her either way and outside of that quick scene they had in 3A about villains which was actually nice, they just tend to roll their eyes at each other.

[Serena]

I've always thought Cora's heart was red because most of her villainous deeds were done without it.

[Faemonic]

I've actually always found Hook's use of Regina's royal title as highly sarcastic. I think in the 3B premiere he was like "Congratulations, Your Majesty, you laid waste to all the lands".

Ditto. He doesn't seem to care about her either way and outside of that quick scene they had in 3A about villains which was actually nice, they just tend to roll their eyes at each other.

Your Mileage May Vary. Gonna take my nonromantic Hooked Queen case to the Villains thread, though. :)

[Mathius]

I've always thought Cora's heart was red because most of her villainous deeds were done without it.

Look again, Cora's heart DOES have darkness: http://kissthemgoodbye.net/onceuponatime/displayimage.php?album=27&pid=43581#top_display_media

The picture posted before was when the darkness had swirled down toward the bottom of the heart since heart darkness is always moving, but it's still visible even there. Cora's heart is far from pure.

Also, I think Felix's heart is red because time stands still in Neverland, and Regina confirmed darkness in the heart is something that has to grow overtime.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Mathius

[InsertWordHere]

Oops, sorry, it wasn't my intention to make it seem like Cora's heart was "better" than it should be. I just grabbed the first screencap that I saw. ITA that it makes sense for her to have darkness. Abandoning a baby to die is nothing to shirk at, and IMO, worse than what Snow did.

 

I don't agree that Felix's heart was in status though. It was taken out after he was in our world. I think any bad Neverland deeds would have caught up with it at that point. I think Felix's crimes, while mostly offscreen, are implied to be around the same level as the crimes we've seen Hook commit. He certainly wasn't a good guy.

 

IMO, it's Snow's heart that is the inconsistency. It should not have been dark because of what she did. I think it's just because Snow's such a good person that she felt a lot of unnecessary guilt for tricking Regina, especially as MM has always taken an unreasonable amount of blame for the things Regina did to her and she let Regina guilt trip her into giving up before Regina removed the heart.

[Camera One]

Snow's heart is also dark because she was such a "selfish and shallow" child.  Tsk tsk.  That was so selfish and shallow to let her mother die instead of using that candle as a child on someone else.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Camera One

[AudienceofOne]

Snow's heart is also dark because she was such a "selfish and shallow" child

 

 

A little entitled perhaps (but she's a princess so, duh!) but I don't find "selfish and shallow" children worry about things like doing the right thing and trying to make other people happy.I mean, the only reason she told Cora about Regina's Twu Wuv was because she wanted her to be happy. That's neither selfish or shallow.

 

That was so selfish and shallow to let her mother die instead of using that candle as a child on someone else.

 

 

Exactly.

[Blue Plastic]

Will has no point in this season.  I get that they wanted to keep the actor and the way to do that was making him regular, but he's been really pointless so far.  For those that didn't watch Wonderland, it's a complete mystery as to why he's there.

ITA.  I've said before I didn't watch the OUATIW spinoff so without the little snippets and hints I get here, I have no idea who he's supposed to be or what he's like.  I still have pretty much only the barest idea.  I've managed to glean that he has some kind of lady love, so I took notice when he appeared to be ogling the unseen waitress at Granny's.  I figured that even if he's in love with someone, he's not dead and can still "look," I guess, but if I hadn't known from reading here that he does have a love interest I might think that he was single.  Kind of confusing IMO and if they're going to put him in a major storyline I hope they explain his backstory and motivations so I can understand where he's coming from.  I mean, I hope they don't just assume that everyone who watches OUAT also watched OUATIW.  So far I feel kind of left out whenever he's on screen.

 

 

I don't really get what they are doing with Rumple.  He's decided to go as dark as possible to the point of killing the Savior and finally killing Hook after all this time? His speech at Neal's grave meant nothing, his marriage to Belle means nothing. Pretty much everything that Rumple has done means nothing.  What does he think will happen when he reaches total domination?

ITA with this too.  All I can figure is that with Neal dead he's decided to just do whatever the H he wants and that he doesn't even really love Belle at all.

 

Her first indication that all was not what it seemed is when he didn't try to make a deal with her. He was giving her magic for free? What is in it for him?

Good point.  That should have been a major warning sign for her.  Even in her extremely distraught state, she should have noticed that he didn't propose a deal with her giving him something in return.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Snow's heart is also dark because she was such a "selfish and shallow" child

 

I don't understand how we get one scene of Snow being bratty, and that's automatically her whole childhood. Everywhere else she seemed just as nice as she is now. Snow isn't there to make Regina look good like the sky isn't actually blue.

[Rumsy4]

Good point. That should have been a major warning sign for her. Even in her extremely distraught state, she should have noticed that he didn't propose a deal with her giving him something in return.

She assumed that because she was hurting Henry, he would be eager to help without making a deal. That is idiotic, considering she knows about the "undoing" prophecy. Now that Neal's dead, they should all have been watching Rumple to see if he would try to hurt Henry. But I guess everyone (except for Hook), bought into his redemption.

[Camera One]

ITA.  I've said before I didn't watch the OUATIW spinoff so without the little snippets and hints I get here, I have no idea who he's supposed to be or what he's like.  I still have pretty much only the barest idea.  I've managed to glean that he has some kind of lady love, so I took notice when he appeared to be ogling the unseen waitress at Granny's.  I figured that even if he's in love with someone, he's not dead and can still "look," I guess, but if I hadn't known from reading here that he does have a love interest I might think that he was single.  Kind of confusing IMO and if they're going to put him in a major storyline I hope they explain his backstory and motivations so I can understand where he's coming from.  I mean, I hope they don't just assume that everyone who watches OUAT also watched OUATIW.  So far I feel kind of left out whenever he's on screen.

 

It's no better if you did watch the Wonderland spinoff.  To me, he feels totally divorced from the character he was on that show.  They've given no info about what happened to him, and where this is occurring within the Wonderland spinoff's timeline, that I find no satisfaction to be derived from having him on the show, even though I liked his character.  At this point, he seems to be a warm body that Robin can bounce his ideas off of, which does him no favors.

 

She assumed that because she was hurting Henry, he would be eager to help without making a deal. That is idiotic, considering she knows about the "undoing" prophecy. Now that Neal's dead, they should all have been watching Rumple to see if he would try to hurt Henry. But I guess everyone (except for Hook), bought into his redemption.

 

In order to fit Emma into the Elsa ice-palace mode, and to shoehorn the Hat storyline, they made Emma super gullible.  You'd think she would have dropped by her new bestie Regina's before heading over to Gold.

 

Another issue with the weird timing of this episode was Henry after he was injured in the forest.  I kept thinking he was going to show up at the Crypt where Regina and Robin were.  Thank goodness he didn't but the way the scenes were sequenced, that could have happened.

[FabulousTater]

All I can figure is that with Neal dead he's decided to just do whatever the H he wants and that he doesn't even really love Belle at all.

I have never once bought the idea that Rumple wanted or wants to be good. I think he did want to get Bae back (though he wanted to have his cake and eat it too because he wanted to keep his magic and find Bae) and because Nealfire's stipulation was that Rumple be "good" then Rumple behaved. And the same goes for Belle. Rumple "behaves" because it's what they want from him and it's what keeps (or kept) them in his life. Rumple loves them, but he's nonetheless a deeply selfish, despicable, vile person. He will kill if it suits his needs. If murdering someone gets him what he wants, then by all means, let's filet the bitch! And If Belle's "demands" conflict with Rumple desires, he merely uses underhanded and subversive tactics to achieve his goal, all the while paying lip service to "I'm on my best behavior, I swear!"

 

IMO, for Rumple it's never once been about being good or doing the right thing. After he got his powers, Rumple never again gave two shits about doing the right thing. His absolute power has corrupted him absolutely. I don't care what he said at Douchefire's grave. At that point Rumple was grieving (because he did love Bae, but loving his son doesn't mean he's still not a power hungry asshole) and he was talking to "Bae" how he always talked to him -- he paid lip-service to the notion of being better because it's what Bae wanted. And maybe Rumple meant it for five seconds, but Rumple has always been vicious and power hungry, and that has never changed in the 200/300+ years that he's been around.

Edited November 20, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Jean]

Good point.  That should have been a major warning sign for her.  Even in her extremely distraught state, she should have noticed that he didn't propose a deal with her giving him something in return.

To be fair, usually Rumple doesn't bother making deals with her because their end goal is close enough in alignment that helping her suits his purposes and she knows it. The only deal he's ever made with Emma wasn't even about her, but Cinderella. The only other time he offered her a deal, wasn't for her personally either, it was for David but Neal stopped it. She's gone to him plenty of times for help too, especially in S1 and then the time travel adventure.

Emma's mistake was thinking that they still had the common goal of keeping Henry safe and happy. Yeah there was the undoing stuff but Rumple also sacrificed his life in the Pan adventure and was willing to give it up for Henry in Neverland. Maybe it's time for another deal to go down between them with Hook's heart on the line. I would rather have Emma make a deal with Ingrid and they go after Rumple. That would be more fun.

[KAOS Agent]

The other thing to think about with regards to Rumpel is that he'd be removing power from someone who could potentially hurt him with her magic. That would be to his advantage. What deal would he offer Emma if she's no longer powerful? Not to mention, he'd look like a huge jackass if he refused to help and left his "beloved" grandson vulnerable to being hurt by Emma's powers. It's not at all unbelievable that Emma wouldn't see him as unwilling to help without some sort of quid pro quo in this situation.

 

On a separate subject, I watched the phone call between Emma and Snow again and I was disturbed by a couple of things. First, Snow said that she doesn't want Emma to ever think they were afraid of her. The problem is that she was afraid of Emma. Twice in the last episode. It's one thing to apologize and regret those feelings of fear, but the reality is that it occurred and would most likely occur in the future. It's not something that they could simply turn off because they don't want to be scared when Emma displays her power. Even though she's in control of her magic, Elsa still manifests it and we saw Regina lose control in the premiere, so it's not like Emma's completely in the clear about things. She'll get angry and things might explode. Who wouldn't fear something like that happening?

 

The second problem is that Emma told her that it didn't matter because she was going to fix it. Emma wasn't brushing off their fear and believing in their love, she was saying that it wouldn't be an issue in the future because she was going to remove the thing causing their fear.  So as nice as the "we love you for who you are" stuff and the hugs at the end were, they did not actually address the very real issue that they fear and don't understand Emma's magic. Even if they eventually were convinced that her losing it was a bad thing, they still have feelings of how much better it might be if she was "normal". I'm not at all happy with how the show neatly tied that up at the end. How typical of this show though to create a really interesting issue and then pretend it's over without addressing the root of the problem.

Edited November 20, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Serena]

Yeah, that "we don't want you to think we fear you" line bugged. It's like... but you did? So you don't want her to think the truth? Because it's more convenient for you if she doesn't think the bad thing you did actually happened?

Edited November 20, 2014 by Serena

[kili]

This is probably a prop error, but I couldn't help but notice that the pop-up book Will found has blank pages. Will pulls out the book and starts playing with the ship that pops up. The page afterwards is clearly blank.

 

The book was obviously made as a prop (there are lots of real pop-up books that would have looked even more impressive) and the book has the same illustrative style and size as The Book. Perhaps the "Once Upon a Time" book chronicles the past in the Enchanted Forrest while the pop-up books predicts the near future. Perhaps the Jolly is returning. Or maybe the new book details life in Storybrooke and that is just of one of the times the Jolly Roger did arrive (when Cora and Hook first arrive, they pass a "lighthouse" on a rocky outcropping, but it isn't striped like the one in the book).

[RadioGirl27]

 

Will has no point in this season.  I get that they wanted to keep the actor and the way to do that was making him regular, but he's been really pointless so far.  For those that didn't watch Wonderland, it's a complete mystery as to why he's there.

I have a theory about this, and it's that, when they cast him and made him a regular in february, they had a different plan for this season. But then they get the permission to use Frozen and changed it. But they had already made Socha a regular and they had even made an announcement, so they couldn't back off. It would have made far too obvious that they don't have a real plan for the show and they made up every new storyline overnight.

So, here we are, with a totally pointless new character without an actual storyline.

[Serena]

Well, I'm guessing that whatever the plan is, they still are going to do it in 4B. But they needed to introduce Will in 4A to set it up and because a regular contract assures the actor at least 13 episodes, usually.

[YaddaYadda]

Not knowing much about Will, what I've been getting from some of things he said including his speech to Robin (that was supposed to lead the man back to Marian, but resulted in the ickiest icks that every icked), I think will lost his TL as in something happened between them.  I'm assuming he was pulled back into Storybrooke after the second curse since he was part of the first one. 

[Rumsy4]

Will still has an eye for a pretty woman, with that unsubtle staring at Red's (or whoever the waitress was) backside. I only watched the last three or four episodes of OUATiW, and I liked him there. But his drunken shiftless moping so far this season is starting to get old.

[YaddaYadda]

I used to think Hook relied a lot on his flask of rum, which they haven't shown him do as much as before this season.  But Will though when he was Irishing up his coffee, I was wondering how much coffee there was actually in his cup because it seems like it was actually empty.  Also, Will in the library, why would he be surprised by a pop up book?  He was in Storybrooke during the 28 year curse, so he should have gotten the same download everyone got, no?

[Dianthus]

So I finally got to watch this ep yesterday, and I'm glad I was spoiled for it. I sat thru the commercials and then got up to use the bathroom during R & R's "morning after" scene. Unhappily, I got back in time for their 'second go.'

Two things I really liked about it:

Emma referring to Hook as "Tiger." For some reason, that makes me ridiculously happy.

Speaking of, even as he skates on the bleeding edge of disaster, Hook still throws attitude at Rumple. I very much want to see Rumple get his ass handed to him, and I want Killian holding the tray on which it rests.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dianthus

[kingshearte]

I've said before I didn't watch the OUATIW spinoff so without the little snippets and hints I get here, I have no idea who he's supposed to be or what he's like.  I still have pretty much only the barest idea.  I've managed to glean that he has some kind of lady love, so I took notice when he appeared to be ogling the unseen waitress at Granny's.  I figured that even if he's in love with someone, he's not dead and can still "look," I guess, but if I hadn't known from reading here that he does have a love interest I might think that he was single.

Me too. In fact, knowing nothing about his storylines in Wonderland, I fully assumed he would turn out to be able to provide Marian's required True Love's Kiss. When they referred to some sort of disagreement with Robin, I was even more sure. Then I came here and learned that the mysterious disagreement with Robin was explicitly something else, and that he has his own True Love. I don't really care one way or another about him, but since they've brought him on, I hope they do something relevant with him in the second half of the season.

[Shanna Marie]

Speaking of Will, his line of "I get that" in reference to Robin's thing for an evil queen doesn't quite work with the actual story. Will loved Ana before she became the evil queen, then she dumped him in order to become the evil queen, and he spent the entire time she was the evil queen with his heart ripped out. I suppose he was still into her, but it wasn't like her being an evil queen was a turn-on to him. He loved the woman he remembered. He didn't get back with Ana (and get his heart restored) until she had seen the error of her ways and quit being evil. So would Will actually get the idea of being into the evil queen, or was he accepting the Regina Is Totally Good Now story and comparing current Regina to Ana near the end of Wonderland? (Though Ana did actually admit where she was wrong and feel bad about the things she did, unlike Regina.)

 

It's also a little weird that Will was so mellow about helping Robin find validation for cheating on Marian right after talking to Robin about how he knew how much Marian had sacrificed for Robin. It was just *shrug* "I did tell you to follow your heart." You'd think his reaction would have been more like, "That wasn't what I meant!" I suppose maybe he was very, very drunk.

[Faemonic]

 

So would Will actually get the idea of being into the evil queen, or was he accepting the Regina Is Totally Good Now story and comparing current Regina to Ana near the end of Wonderland? (Though Ana did actually admit where she was wrong and feel bad about the things she did, unlike Regina.)

 

It's also a little weird that Will was so mellow about helping Robin find validation for cheating on Marian right after talking to Robin about how he knew how much Marian had sacrificed for Robin. It was just *shrug* "I did tell you to follow your heart." You'd think his reaction would have been more like, "That wasn't what I meant!" I suppose maybe he was very, very drunk.

 

Maybe Will liked the outfits? Nah, seriously I thought it was a bit strange too. Maybe he'd forgiven Ana so thoroughly for cheating on him (essentially) with the Red King that he'd forgive it of anyone? More likely no one in the writer's room felt like writing anything that condemned adultery. Snow was so chipper about it. Later it's just, "Things are not that simple!" But, yeah, they're not that simple, but this is not a good thing Snow and you are chipper.