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Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode


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Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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I like Belle much better when she acts like the adult she is--her scenes with Hope were rather awesome and I hope we get to see more of her in attorney mode.

 

I wish I could see why Ciara is fawning all over Theo--the kid's kind of dorky and maybe that's the point but she's acting like she's into him and I don't understand it.  I continue to like Chase and I want good things for him--like a girl who won't forget he exists when another guy comes around.

 

If Andre's drugging Chad causes an ounce of pain, unhappiness or misery for Abby, then I will love the man forever :)

Well to be fair to Theo, Ciara and he have been raised as "best friends/cousins" since they were born.  I don't know if Ciara is playing it as more into "protector" mode in the sense that she watches out for Theo more because he is autistic or she really does like him and doesn't let his autism get in the way of her feelings, either way I think it is admirable. 

 

Part of me may just be biased but I like the fact that the autistic black guy is the desirable one.  I also really like Chase and find he and Theo comparable in the looks department. 

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Belle likes what she sees with Chad.

Because she has eyes?

 

WRT: Ciara/Theo...I like their friendship. They grew up together. They should be protective of each other.

Edited by swtrgrl
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Belle and Hope arguing is perfect... Just you wait when Hope finds out Belle been slutting on Shawn again. Now thats gonna be some argument.

Chad, dont you wished you could had listened to Andre now.

Today's episode was better than the last few days. I can tell it wasn't dragging and the dialogue wasn't stupid.

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Does Andre know that if he killed Abifail Trollop Abistank that would be one less obstacle standing in his way of getting Chad and Belle together?

 

Shouldn't Abifail be spending most of her time with her newborn baby instead of almost humping Chad and spending the day with him? Especially since her family barely stops by to see the demon. I feel like most parents in her situation would have to be forced out of the hospital.

This!  Exactly what I was thinking during the show.  If it was anyone else, Trollop would be in a dungeon or a deserted island per the Dimeras. How she can get involved with a mob family in so many different ways and still be breathing is beyond me.  And if the show thinks they are painting her in a flattering light, showering her waking up refreshed after a full night of sleep while her baby is being taken care of by nurses at the hospital, then Corday and crew need to talk to some new mothers who actually sat 24 hours by their preemies bedside and woke up every 2-3 hours to feed their newborns. Instead we're shown an immature mother more concerned with when Chad is going to text her next than the needs of her baby. She's being portrayed as a lovesick teen, not a responsible new mother. 

 

Meanwhile....

 

Across town Hope is more obsessed with getting revenge rather than parenting her daughter and new step-son who are both dealing with losing their fathers. I'm going to put aside the fact that NuCiara is an annoying brat--an hour watching her on screen and I can see why Hope would rather chase bad guys that spend time with her, but still it's her kid. Shawn has left town and I'm not sure his mother even knows or cares. Kept getting distracted during her scenes with Belle wondering if she knew her lawyer was cheating on her son and about to divorce him. Since I'm assuming she got her degree in Maine, is Belle even licensed to practice in Salem?

 

The appeal of this show just wanes more and more each day. It's become a town filled with deadbeat dads and irresponsible mothers where the hospital and the park are the most dangerous places to visit. Have they not heard of security?

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WRT: Ciara/Theo...I like their friendship. They grew up together. They should be protective of each other.

 

Maybe it's how the actors are playing it but I'm not getting a protective sibling feeling during their scenes--I wonder if that's what the show is trying to convey?  The young man playing Theo is very believable at being kind of child-like so maybe that's why I'm having trouble seeing him in a romantic light?

 

In other news, I still can't stand Abby and I think Chad is being wasted on her.  Bring on his interactions with Belle :)

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Poor Chad... the guy just can't catch a break, can he?

 

I really hope that wasn't Chase that sent that text to Theo and its all just circumstantial. 

 

Still don't like Belle. Never have since she stopped being Kristen Storms or whatever that girl's name was.

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Hope is still in all black.

 

 

Well, it is the day after her husband's funeral.

 

I always have to remember that Horton Square is an indoor area.  Marlena and Belle in their shirt sleeves brought me up quick.

 

Can we get English doctor on full time?  She's gorgeous and her English accent is ... mmmmmm.

 

It's looking a lot like Chase is the person harassing Theo.  That's a shame.

 

I don't understand why Hope doesn't tell the police that Ciara was kidnapped, and that's why she couldn't have shot Malcolm.

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I don't understand why Hope doesn't tell the police that Ciara was kidnapped, and that's why she couldn't have shot Malcolm.

I can only assume it's fear. Fear the people will comeback and hurt her and Ciara. Plus she still feels she can handle it herself, where we all know, she can't. Hope believes seeking revenge will be the cure to her problems and it's not. She has to get emotional therapy soon. Have her scream, cry and be angry. Just let it out so she can move on with her life.

Marlena had a similar moment after her twin Samantha was murdered. She had three therapy sessions to help her heal and so she could move forward with Roman before they got married. It was one of Deidre Hall's best performances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=jG0DoFGUpdQ

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Salem, welcome to the next day! So Ciara is kidnapped and Hope immediately leaves the next day to find the people responsible? Leaving Chase alone too knowing what he is dealing with? I know she is laser focused on finding the people that held Bo captive but your kid needs you. One already left without saying goodbye and telling you his marriage was over. Speaking of, Claire flew to Maine for "one" day in Salem time to come right back? Lol why?

I do enjoy Belle in lawyer mode even though as someone asked above I'm sure she's not licensed to practice in Salem yet. Hope won't be feeling so friendly though when she finds about the cheating. I can't lie I'm pretty excited for these interactions with Belle and Chad. I believe MM is playing her now as moving on from the "Princess" role that she might entertain the idea of hanging out with a Dimera

Poor Marlena. That woman cannot take a breather. She keeps getting attacked during her therapy sessions. She may need to hire an assistant to tell her when people are outside. Or I guess just stop giving sessions to Chad because that's when it happens.

Aww Theo and Ciara are cute. I think Theo has a crush on Ciara but she's just friends with everyone. I hope it's not Chase sending the texts to Theo. I think it took a few episodes for me to get used to the teens due to the jarring SORASing of them but I think they are finally starting to gel.

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Salem, welcome to the next day! So Ciara is kidnapped and Hope immediately leaves the next day to find the people responsible? Leaving Chase alone too knowing what he is dealing with? I know she is laser focused on finding the people that held Bo captive but your kid needs you. One already left without saying goodbye and telling you his marriage was over. Speaking of, Claire flew to Maine for "one" day in Salem time to come right back? Lol why?

I do enjoy Belle in lawyer mode even though as someone asked above I'm sure she's not licensed to practice in Salem yet. Hope won't be feeling so friendly though when she finds about the cheating. I can't lie I'm pretty excited for these interactions with Belle and Chad. I believe MM is playing her now as moving on from the "Princess" role that she might entertain the idea of hanging out with a Dimera

Poor Marlena. That woman cannot take a breather. She keeps getting attacked during her therapy sessions. She may need to hire an assistant to tell her when people are outside. Or I guess just stop giving sessions to Chad because that's when it happens.

Aww Theo and Ciara are cute. I think Theo has a crush on Ciara but she's just friends with everyone. I hope it's not Chase sending the texts to Theo. I think it took a few episodes for me to get used to the teens due to the jarring SORASing of them but I think they are finally starting to gel.

 

 

Good post!

 

All I have to add is, did you all notice that Abigail's little one, Baby Plot Point, has a flat head?  Yup, any flatter and I'd have thought she was breastfeeding her tablet.

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Good post!

All I have to add is, did you all notice that Abigail's little one, Baby Plot Point, has a flat head? Yup, any flatter and I'd have thought she was breastfeeding her tablet.

AHHHHHHH HAHAHAHA

I love this board. I feel right at home how this board drags Shitgail daily. Some popular boards kisses the ground she walks on like she makes no mistakes.

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Another session at the "attack office" has occurred. Marlena should just move her practice home. Maybe it would be safer.

I really hope that Chase isn't sending the texts to Theo. Throwing Aiden under the bus was enough.

The demon child has shrunk, plus gotten very vocal while in the hospital. He will be saying "no more whore" soon.....I wish!

Andre gives new meaning to the phrase "family will screw you over before anyone else."

Maybe Belle can use the insanity plea to defend Hope. We all know she hasn't been operating on all cylinders lately.

Where is Chad's balls?  They must be in abifail's purse.

Along with a bottle of EJ's cologne, Austin's comb, Cameron's stethoscope, and Ben's photo for memorabilia.

AHHHHHHH HAHAHAHA

I love this board. I feel right at home how this board drags Shitgail daily. Some popular boards kisses the ground she walks on like she makes no mistakes.

You got that right! And don't even attempt to suggest that the demon child is Ben's by doing simple math. They do not want to hear it.

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You got that right! And don't even attempt to suggest that the demon child is Ben's by doing simple math. They do not want to hear it.

This. There is no talking to Cabby fans especially those Shitgail diehards. It's almost frightening.

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Marlena had a similar moment after her twin Samantha was murdered. She had three therapy sessions to help her heal and so she could move forward with Roman before they got married. It was one of Deidre Hall's best performances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=jG0DoFGUpdQ

I had just watched these scenes recently. Outstanding work by Deidre Hall. The way that the therapist told her to look at the empty chair and imagine it was Sam was great. As for Hope, she could certainly benefit from a similar experience. I understand her need for revenge, but she is not even thinking anymore. She's not considering what could happen to her family as a result of her actions. Hopefully, Ciara's kidnapping will be a wake up call.

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It's a new day! Finally.

 

That preemie baby was totally a plastic doll. 

 

Poor Chad, he was happy for a good 5 minutes until Andre drugged him. Yesterday he's shackled to a bed and lit on fire, today he's injected and kidnapped. I did think Andre chloroforming Marlena seemed amateur stupid. I'd expect Andre to go about getting Chad a bit more stealth. Marlena being drugged at the same time as Chad's injected will make it easy to put 2+2 together. 

 

I hope Belle figures out who hurt her mother and just gives the money back. Why are they risking their lives over Sami's stealing and quest for EJ? I really like lawyer mode Belle, but does Hope know anything about the divorce/cheating?

 

Stefano seemed really quiet during the family scenes, don't think he'll be on board with Andre's methods.

 

Jenn seemed more concerned and worried about Hope than the fact her daughter was kidnapped for however long, lit on fire, gave birth to a preemie and was engaged to a serial killer. What was with the look Jenn gave when Abby was mentioning Chad? He did just hours ago save her and Thomas's life and Jenn was hugging him in the same room now she's all judgy? 

 

I wonder if days last 3 weeks because it's cheaper wardrobe wise? The characters don't need to change clothes if the day never changes. Abby was in the same top for a month, now she's been in that sweater for a week. She even slept in it woke up and went back to the hospital in it. I thought they wrote she went to the apartment to get their things? What happened to the things?  

 

I really hope Chase isn't the one bullying Theo. I really like the new Theo and the way he's playing the Autism. I wish they'd have him interact with family more though. Throw in a scene with crazy Uncle Andre. 

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What mess? This mess is Sami's. Andre's going after them all for the money.

 

I do agree the baby will have to get sick at some point, but not for bonding but for DNA revealing. He'll need some father blood type or something contrived because Clyde's gone so they have to address the paternity somehow. Unless the lab tech shows back up and spills.

Edited by Artsda
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I wonder how many more people will be dragged into this Chabifail mess. I also wonder how long it will be before that baby gets sick so they can have some cheap bonding moments while worrying about their broke down spawn.

Did you catch the joyous look Jennifer's face that Abi is ready to get back in the swing of things and make Chad her boo!

LOL

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Did you catch the joyous look Jennifer's face that Abi is ready to get back in the swing of things and make Chad her boo!

LOL

 

I'm sure Jen is thrilled that she's going to end up raising that brat since her wayward daughter will be too busy trolling for dick.

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Dear Santa,

 

I've tried to be a good girl this year and all I want for my DOOL Christmas is for Abifail to leave Salem forever (until KM is replaced by someone else).  I also want to see more Steve and Kayla.  

 

Thank you.

 

Lisa418722

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Whenever Abigail and the guy she's involved with are in a love scene together, they seem to move at different paces. The guy moves at a more normal, regulated pace, and she rushes all the kissing, as if this is the last time she's ever going to get to kiss a guy in her lifetime. It's sort of funny and weird to watch.

 

I don't even understand Sami's storyline -- I know she's off chasing someone or something, but since she's not even on the show anymore I guess I don't feel inclined to pay attention. I just know that grumpy look that Belle has been sporting since she came back is a really terrible look for her. Maybe she's justified in her grumpiness (I don't know), but make it stop. Now her hair is back to looking drab again too. And I think she may be even less convincing as a lawyer than Carrie was, who at least wasn't so darn irritating to look at when she was in one of her sour moods. I get that the family is under stress or whatever with the  money situation, but who on this show isn't under stress? And yet everyone else on this show manages to look pleasant. Hope has been through trauma, and yet even when she's in pain she looks less foul than Belle. Maybe pretty people like Nicole have set an unfair standard for what I usually expect when I turn on the show, even when they're being locked up with a celibate priest in some basement somewhere.  If I want to go look at a grumpy person who looks like she wants to swear at all the apples I'll go to the grocery story. 

Edited by bantering
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Dear Santa,

I've tried to be a good girl this year and all I want for my DOOL Christmas is for Abifail to leave Salem forever (until KM is replaced by someone else). I also want to see more Steve and Kayla.

Thank you.

Lisa418722

Great post. An actress who can act next to Billy Flynn. Sighs. Make it happen, Days, make it happen.

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I get that the family is under stress or whatever with the  money situation, but who on this show isn't under stress? 

 

Salem is always in danger as long as Stefano and Andre are alive so I don't know why this money situation is being treated as some isolated incident worthy of Belle acing like she has mad cow disease. Even if Sami hadn't taken the money the Dimeras would still find one reason or another to go after John/Marlena/the Bradys.

 

This whole thing is so stupid. As if Sami would bypass Kate or Lucas and go straight to Belle for help with a scheme.

Edited by LeftPhalange
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This whole thing is so stupid. As if Sami would bypass Kate or Lucas and go straight to Belle for help with a scheme.

THAT would have been great. Kate and Sami (even with Sami off camera). Throw in Lucas, too? I'm all in.

How it is now? Do not give a crap about Belle. AARGH. So stupid.

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I don't think Lucas would be involved in this at all. Wasn't he last working for the Dimeras? He wouldn't want his kid on the tun and in danger all because Sami was money revenge hungry and chasing EJ. This would have been perfect time to use him with his daughter on the run, to show his reactions.

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I feel like Belle is going to start singing "my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard" anytime soon. I'm surprised she didn't start singing that to Phillip yesterday. 

 

I don't even dislike Martha Madison so I don't know what's going on with my dislike of Belle right now -- this I would attribute to a writing issue, because even when she was cheating with Phillip on Sean I didn't find her this annoying.

Edited by bantering
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Ok won't be home for Days episode 1 my time zone but I'm already annoyed by Andre brainwashing Chad.

Based off the tweets I'm following why couldn't he just kidnap Belle and brainwash her. Granted I'm not complaining that this story will get Chad out of the vortex of suck which is Abi, but still.

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Based off the tweets I'm following why couldn't he just kidnap Belle and brainwash her. Granted I'm not complaining that this story will get Chad out of the vortex of suck which is Abi, but still.

 

Killing Abifail would be so much easier than this. I don't know why Andre decided to go the most convoluted route possible. 

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Killing Abifail would be so much easier than this. I don't know why Andre decided to go the most convoluted route possible.

.

Loll I wouldn't suggest to this writing regime to killing anymore legacy characters but yes it's stupid.

NuJohn lasted about 6 months if I'm not mistaken. Please writers dont drag this out that long especially since I doubt it will be as entertaining as that one.

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What is wrong with Theresa? It's not like Kate is being a hateful bitch to her. I don't know why she thinks she should be able to just come in and be treated like a CEO even though her only work experience is doing...something at the hospital. She's delusional if she thinks she can go up against Kate. Honestly, this story just makes me wish Sami were still here. Her, Kate, and Nicole working together would be so much better. 

 

The Dimerias are so ridiculous. The only way this brainwashing stuff will be interesting to me is if it keeps Chad away from Abifail permanently.

 

Belle cheated on Phillip with Shawn while they were together so I don't get why Kate didn't pull out a dagger the moment they ran into each other. 

 

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NuJohn should have stayed forever. He was great.

 

 

Based off the tweets I'm following why couldn't he just kidnap Belle and brainwash her.

Brainwash her to hand over the money would be the easier way. lol

 

Where was that place Andre had Chad strapped to and how did Andre get Chad there in the day in the hospital with nobody seeing? 

 

Those were some bizarre visions Chad was having. Babies, house exploding, people lit on fire, pandas, kittens? lol

 

I'm glad they showed Stefano not on board with the brainwashing of Chad. What happened to wanting Abby's inheritance for the $$? They could have just waited for that. 

 

Liked seeing the new Johnson house set. Decorating the tree and all their family togetherness. 

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Help! I didn't watch for a few days and I don't know who the weird woman is that is, what, working with Kayla's son? Who is she and why??

Thanks in advance....

Oh, and Kate has hideous taste in men but she is no prize either so I guess it evens out.

Edited by roomtorome
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Eduardo really needs to shave that thing off his chin. Gosh, it's so annoying to look at. 

 

I really don't understand the plan of  Andre/Tony/Whoever That is with the brainwashing machine, but, eh, whatever. Maybe he'll forget Abigail exists...

 

Ugh, Tamara Braun.

Edited by bantering
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Help! I didn't watch for a few days and I don't know who the weird woman is that is, what, working with Kayla's son? Who is she and why??

Thanks in advance....

 

I missed a couple days too, but I don't think "show" has actually said "who she is", or what she is doing in Salem yet.  But from reading the forums, I know her name is Ava and I think she was a nemesis between Steve and Kayla before, and possibly was involved in the death of Shawn Brady (Bo & Kayla's father).

 

But for those of us who have not seen her before, you would think they'd send us a crumb to let us know who she is.  I don't think her name has even been mentioned on the show, but close captioning does show her name as Ava.  Hard to care when we know nothing about her.

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Liked how Kate was green with envy when she saw Miriam with Eduardo. I didn't know she could be so easily jealous, but I liked the scenes.

 

Then you definitely missed her entire relationship with Eduardo's son, Rafe. Her jealousy of Jordan is why we got Clyde (and to some extent, Ben). 

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Then you definitely missed her entire relationship with Eduardo's son, Rafe. Her jealousy of Jordan is why we got Clyde (and to some extent, Ben).

Thats right lol I forgot. Maybe cause I ffwd through most of it. Tomsell lol

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I missed a couple days too, but I don't think "show" has actually said "who she is", or what she is doing in Salem yet.  But from reading the forums, I know her name is Ava and I think she was a nemesis between Steve and Kayla before, and possibly was involved in the death of Shawn Brady (Bo & Kayla's father).

 

But for those of us who have not seen her before, you would think they'd send us a crumb to let us know who she is.  I don't think her name has even been mentioned on the show, but close captioning does show her name as Ava.  Hard to care when we know nothing about her.

 

I was going to try to explain Ava's background but its easier to just copy her Soap Central biography. I don't even remember most of this stuff happening. She was only around for like five months and is easily forgotten. I don't know why the writers decided to bring her back. 

 

The early history of Ava Vitali was shown only in flashbacks as she told the story of her past with Steve to other characters on the show. Ava was the daughter of mob boss, Martino Vitali. She was raised spoiled, sheltered, and in the "family business." Ava met Steve (whom she called "Patch") when Martino hired Patch to do some jobs for the family. (Patch had escaped from the DiMera compound, although all memories of his life with Kayla had been erased.) Ava and Patch fell in love. For two years they dated and were lovers. Eventually, Patch and Ava decided to marry. But, Patch was abducted by the DiMeras and left Ava at the altar. Ava was heartbroken. Later, Ava was diagnosed with brief psychotic disorder after Steve left, and her father put her on medication and did not allow her to leave the family grounds.

 

Ava appeared on screen in February 2008 in Ireland. Ava was desperate to get Steve back, so she ordered the sabotage of the plane that carried Steve and other members of the Brady family. She was hoping that the plane would be delayed. Instead, the plane had problems mid-flight. The plane crashed and three people, including grandpa Shawn Brady, were killed. Ava followed Steve back to Salem. While mourning Shawn's death, Hope hugged Steve. Ava saw them and mistook Hope for Steve's wife. Ava kidnapped Hope and held her prisoner at the Vitali compound. Steve, Bo, and Kayla followed in pursuit of Hope, and they were held captive, as well. Ava's reign of terror continued as she did many things to physically and emotionally harm her prisoners. Finally, Roman and Abe rescued them and arrested Ava.

 

While being held prisoner, Kayla had a talk with Ava about her doctor's appointments. Ava told her that the doctor her father hired prescribed pills for her to take. Kayla stole the pills and had them analyzed. The tests showed that the pills prescribed for Kayla were anti-seizure medication, which caused mood swings and manic episodes-a toxic combination for a woman suffering from brief psychotic disorder. Ava went through a painful detox and emerged as a much healthier person.

 

Ava confronted her father about the pills in the middle of the Brady Pub, surrounded by Bo, Angelo, and other Vitali goons. He denied doing anything wrong and, unfortunately, Ava's doctor had mysteriously died and couldn't comment on the situation. Ava also confronted her father with her mother's death. Ava confessed that she overheard a conversation between Martino and one of his men where Martino confessed that he had Ava's mom killed. When Ava tried to attack Martino, he pulled a gun on her, but Bo shot first. Martino died instantly.

 

With no more Steve and no more "daddy," Ava tried to move on with her life. She hired E.J. DiMera to be her lawyer when she faced charges for tampering with the plane from Ireland. She also started a friendship with Nicole Walker and the two began patrolling the town for martinis and men. Ava met and took a liking to John Black DiMera, who was separated (though not legally) from Marlena. Ava convinced John to move forward with his new lifestyle as head of the DiMera empire. However, when E.J. told Ava that it did not look good for her to beat the charges since one of her cousins agreed to testify against her, Ava jumped bail and left John and Salem behind. It is believed that she was headed for her family's private compound in Tuscany.

  • Love 2
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Help! I didn't watch for a few days and I don't know who the weird woman is that is, what, working with Kayla's son? Who is she and why??

Thanks in advance....

Oh, and Kate has hideous taste in men but she is no prize either so I guess it evens out.

 

That's Ava Vitali, Steve's old nemesis, although they have not yet called her by name.

 

I thought Theresa was a designer, not a PR person.  Or is everybody supposed to be at Kate's beck and call?  Oh, wait, yeah.

 

I thought Kayla gave Steve a key?

 

Theresa comes in the door muttering about "that witch", Brady asks her what upsets her, and she says, "Gee, it's sweet you can read me like that."  Uh, a blind man could read that.

 

Wow, Nicole exists!  And she is very tan.

 

What the hell is going on with Ava always putting on makeup in front of the mirror? There is something wrong with her, popping pills like that.

 

The brainwashing videos are hilarious.

  • Love 2
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What is wrong with Theresa? It's not like Kate is being a hateful bitch to her. I don't know why she thinks she should be able to just come in and be treated like a CEO even though her only work experience is doing...something at the hospital. She's delusional if she thinks she can go up against Kate. Honestly, this story just makes me wish Sami were still here. Her, Kate, and Nicole working together would be so much better. 

 

The Dimerias are so ridiculous. The only way this brainwashing stuff will be interesting to me is if it keeps Chad away from Abifail permanently.

 

Belle cheated on Phillip with Shawn while they were together so I don't get why Kate didn't pull out a dagger the moment they ran into each other. 

 

Well Kate did plain on getting revenge on Belle for cheating on Phillip but that all happened when she and John were together so she never went through with it out of respect for John. 

  • Love 1
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Thanks for crazy Ava bio. So funny to read that sort of thing in one fell swoop. Almost every trope in soaps in a few paragraphs.

Yeah, all the staring at herself in the mirror and popping pills likely does not mean good things.

Man, who dreams this stuff up. Also, she looks very young to me for so many shenanigans with these older men.

Oh well.

I hate the Chad stuff. Again. I like the actor and character but between him being presumed to be a murderer for weeks on end and now this silliness, I just can't watch. I want those brain cells for just a tad longer. Rats. Give the guy a decent storyline!

  • Love 3
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Well Kate did plain on getting revenge on Belle for cheating on Phillip but that all happened when she and John were together so she never went through with it out of respect for John. 

 

She was with Roman when she drugged Sami and Brandon and made it look like Sami cheated on Lucas.

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Message added by scarynikki12

Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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