Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[Jel]

I think it's true that that kind of crazy behavior was the kind of thing Bethenny experienced as a child, but I see no irony in it. That's how cycles are formed and continue. If I had to guess I'd say that Bethenny is doing a much better job of parenting than her mother did, but under duress -- she was after all likely very tired from all the work and stress she'd been going through helping the people of Puerto Rico -- crap has a way of creeping back in.

I had a similar situation with our dog when my kid was about Bryn's age. And as much as I tried to cover my upset and extreme stress in that situation for the sake of my child, I would not be surprised if some of it got through. That's life, folks. We do the best we can. Sometimes it's not good enough.  I hope she can learn from this sad event and work on what happens to her when she faces an emotional crisis, so it doesn't have to unfold in this way again. 

I disagree that Bethenny is a narcissist. I think she's self absorbed and emotionally immature, she panics, and she has a lot of work to do in therapy, but meeting the clinical definition of NPD, no, I don't think so.

[RedDelicious]

With the utmost respect, I don't agree. Symptoms of NPD include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism and a sense of entitlement (Mayo). To me, Bethenny fits all of those characteristics. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by RedDelicious

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

I think it's true that that kind of crazy behavior was the kind of thing Bethenny experienced as a child, but I see no irony in it. That's how cycles are formed and continue. If I had to guess I'd say that Bethenny is doing a much better job of parenting than her mother did, but under duress -- she was after all likely very tired from all the work and stress she'd been going through helping the people of Puerto Rico -- crap has a way of creeping back in.

I had a similar situation with our dog when my kid was about Bryn's age. And as much as I tried to cover my upset and extreme stress in that situation for the sake of my child, I would not be surprised if some of it got through. That's life, folks. We do the best we can. Sometimes it's not good enough.  I hope she can learn from this sad event and work on what happens to her when she faces an emotional crisis, so it doesn't have to unfold in this way again. 

I disagree that Bethenny is a narcissist. I think she's self absorbed and emotionally immature, she panics, and she has a lot of work to do in therapy, but meeting the clinical definition of NPD, no, I don't think so.

It's not that Bethenny had an emotional meltdown in front of Bryn, it happens to all parents, it is that she decided to film it and put it on SM while crying/wailing instead of calling the vet/taking Cookie to the vet. She put her need for stranger sympathy/attention ahead of Cookie's medical needs AND her daughters emotional needs. Bethenny once again, put her needs first when they should have been last.

Bethenny is a narcissist and no matter how much therapy she has, that will never change. 

[Jel]

WW are you inside her head (if so, I recommend leaving immediately! ;)  Because unless you are, you can't know what her motivations were.   You're stating your opinion as though it were a fact. 

RedDelicious, thanks for the respect and right back at you.  :) 

I am pretty sure that most clinicians would use the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in combination with their many years of schooling and training, plus an extensive interview and history before they would make a diagnosis.  I hear what you're saying about the Mayo clinic information, but what I am saying is diagnosing a personality disorder or a mental illness is way more involved than ticking boxes on a checklist that is written for the lay public.  Those lists are sort of a first step, as in "Is this person nutty?" that would then perhaps trigger an investigation into the feasibility of an examination by a professional. They aren't diagnostic tools per se.

Or so I have heard.

[WireWrap]

42 minutes ago, Jel said:

WW are you inside her head (if so, I recommend leaving immediately! ;)  Because unless you are, you can't know what her motivations were.   You're stating your opinion as though it were a fact. 

RedDelicious, thanks for the respect and right back at you.  :) 

I am pretty sure that most clinicians would use the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in combination with their many years of schooling and training, plus an extensive interview and history before they would make a diagnosis.  I hear what you're saying about the Mayo clinic information, but what I am saying is diagnosing a personality disorder or a mental illness is way more involved than ticking boxes on a checklist that is written for the lay public.  Those lists are sort of a first step, as in "Is this person nutty?" that would then perhaps trigger an investigation into the feasibility of an examination by a professional. They aren't diagnostic tools per se.

Or so I have heard.

No, not inside her head, Thank Heavens LOL. That said, don't we all post our "opinions" of these women as none of us really know them in real life. LOL

[Happy Camper]

3 hours ago, Jel said:

she was after all likely very tired from all the work and stress she'd been going through helping the people of Puerto Rico -- crap has a way of creeping back in.

Are you inside her head (if so, I recommend leaving immediately! ;)  Because unless you are, you can't know what her motivations were.  

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

It baffles me how a girl who grew up on the track and walked hots summers at Saratoga caring for horses who get medical care continuously for performance  doesn't know the importance of a great vet, and  isn't on a first name basis with at least one vet 24/7. Yes yes Cookie is a small animal but Bobby Frankel's daughter is one degree of separation from reaching the best vets on the planet. It's not what you know it's who you know. 

[Happy Camper]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

It's not that Bethenny had an emotional meltdown in front of Bryn, it happens to all parents, it is that she decided to film it and put it on SM while crying/wailing instead of calling the vet/taking Cookie to the vet.

This is fact.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

It's not that Bethenny had an emotional meltdown in front of Bryn, it happens to all parents, it is that she decided to film it and put it on SM while crying/wailing instead of calling the vet/taking Cookie to the vet.

Exactly.

It's one thing to lose it in the moment over a pet - to watch in horror as your dog seizes, the shock momentarily freaking you out, and then get it together to help both your little girl & your animal companion - that's a moment almost every kid who has loved a family pet has gone through with their parents. 

What most sane/healthy/non narc parents don't do  (thank god) is film all of it, and upload it to social media. That feels like the "new abnormal", imo.

And even if Frankel felt she had to ask for help online from total strangers (instead of calling ANY emergency vet hotline for next-step direction) it's pretty easy to do that without including video of Cookie's distress.  To quote LIMOM, that feels "fucking exploitative" (and a time-waster, when time is of the essence). 

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Yes yes Cookie is a small animal but Bobby Frankel's daughter is one degree of separation from reaching the best vets on the planet.

That is odd (I also think it's odd she doesn't have pet insurance; we have a pretty cheap policy, but we still received a 24 hour emergency number).

There's emergency help available at the "Animal Rescue for the Hamptons" website -- wherever Frankel lives in the Hamptons,  she could have called and they would have quickly directed her to the closest emergency vet center near her (especially as a celeb): 

"If it is after-hours and your pet must be seen immediately, contact the East End Veterinary Emergency and Specialty Center in Riverhead.  The EEVESC provides 24 hour emergency care.  631-369-4513."

https://www.arfhamptons.org/programsservices/pet-emergency-info/

All Frankel's narc needs aside, making/uploading the video wasted time she could have spent doing what I did -- a fifteen second search, which provided a concrete number to call for next-step help. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, film noire said:

That is odd (I also think it's odd she doesn't have pet insurance; we have a pretty cheap policy, but we still received a 24 hour emergency number).

There's emergency help available at the "Animal Rescue for the Hamptons" website -- wherever Frankel lives in the Hamptons,  she could have called and they would have quickly directed her to the closest emergency vet center near her (especially as a celeb): 

"If it is after-hours and your pet must be seen immediately, contact the East End Veterinary Emergency and Specialty Center in Riverhead.  The EEVESC provides 24 hour emergency care.  631-369-4513."

https://www.arfhamptons.org/programsservices/pet-emergency-info/

All Frankle's narc needs aside, making/uploading the video wasted time she could have spent doing what I did -- a fifteen second search, which provided a concrete number to call for next-step help. 

 Cookie was elderly and had known health problems well before Bethenny went to her Hamptons home last weekend, I don't buy that she didn't know the location of the ER vet clinic/number. IMO, this was her getting that attention fix she craves like any junkie craves their next hit/fix. Sad.

[film noire]

6 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

With the utmost respect, I don't agree. Symptoms of NPD include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism and a sense of entitlement (Mayo). To me, Bethenny fits all of those characteristics. 

She exhibits many of both the Mayo and the DSM-5 classifications  - you can find that DSM list online (not giving a link here, don't want to run afoul of the "Stop demanding proof of other posters" mod note during the great Red Cross debate of '17  : ) I agree with you that she fits pretty perfectly into that category, but whether it's NPD or something else, the woman is five skinnygirls short of a case. She thought Cookie was dying, and posted video of it online, instead of making a fifteen second phonecall to an emergency vet; no way to make that the behavior of a healthy woman. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

IMO, this was her getting that attention fix she craves like any junkie craves their next hit/fix.

Yes -- or (scientific theory here!) between Frankel posting seizure videos and Luann wearing brownface, I'm wondering if they're under the spell of the beaver (no pun intended :) moon. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[biakbiak]

19 minutes ago, film noire said:

Yes -- or (scientific theory here!) between Frankel posting seizure videos and Luann wearing brownface, I'm wondering if they're under the spell of the beaver (no pun intended :) moon. 

Maybe. Bethenny actual was with Lu that night and IGd a story of them getting drunk together on tequila to cheer her up  after Cookie's death.

[film noire]

19 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Maybe. Bethenny actual was with Lu that night and IGd a story of them getting drunk together on tequila to cheer her up  after Cookie's death.

Thanks, biakbiak -- it all makes sense now! :)

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[Diane Mars]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

She exhibits many of both the Mayo and the DSM-5 classifications  - you can find that DSM list online (not giving a link here, don't want to run afoul of the "Stop demanding proof of other posters" mod note during the great Red Cross debate of '17  : ) I agree with you that she fits pretty perfectly into that category, but whether it's NPD or something else, the woman is five skinnygirls short of a case. She thought Cookie was dying, and posted video of it online, instead of making a fifteen second phonecall to an emergency vet; no way to make that the behavior of a healthy woman. 

She's got a lot of those, yes, BUT she doens't have the main one, which is the lack of empathy.... She's shown empathy -real empathy- for others. And NPD people aren't able to show that.

(And I'm really not a fan of her, but I don't think she's a narcissist in a "medical" way. She's damaged, egoist, whatever, but... she's not a narcissist in "that way")

Edited November 4, 2017 by Diane Mars

[film noire]

34 minutes ago, Diane Mars said:

 She's shown empathy -real empathy- for others. And NPD people aren't able to show that.

I think there have been a few recent studies showing narcs can feel empathy (at least in specific clinical situations) but that aside, I haven't seen empathy on her part for any of the people she's hurt, insulted, harmed or tried to control-- they're just objects she feels are deserving of her rage, imo. She does seem to feel sympathy for people she has no relationship with (victims of disasters like Sandy or Maria) but I've never seen her put herself in someone else's shoes (people who do that tend to not savage other human beings the way Frankel routinely does). And narcs can cry and sob and raise millions for a great cause (Jerry Lewis for example) and still be narcs. 

For me, that video says it all; she's Bernadette now, wrapped up in her own chaos, her dog and little girl coming a far second to her need for a narc supply. And it's not just vanity, imo. She literally cannot exist anymore without an audience. YMMV.

Edited November 4, 2017 by film noire

[Almost 3000]

I don't understand how she has an advanced age dog with a history of seizures and she seemed so unprepared. Granted I wouldn't know what to do in this situation but I can't imagine the vet hadn't given her some suggestions or medications to deal with this. I hate to say it but think she knew it was the end and that's why she posted it. Yes, I went there.

[Jel]

9 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Are you inside her head (if so, I recommend leaving immediately! ;)  Because unless you are, you can't know what her motivations were.  

Aw, well I did qualify that earlier comment with a "very likely", but your post made me laugh, so I really can't be mad. 

[smores]

When my grandfather was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 4 months to live, maybe more if he completed chemo and radiation (which he did and my grandmother was at every appt with him), then later declined and the time came to bring him home on hospice care, she completely fell apart.  She honestly did not think he was going to die from the cancer they had told her would kill him.  Seriously.  It was a different level of grief/upset than finding out it was time for hospice, she literally was learning he was going to die from cancer, despite having already had that knowledge for months and months, and watching the process play out.  I say that, because I think it's fairly easy for someone to have an elderly pet who has some health issues to kind of blow them off as a one off, and just think the situation is behind them and not realize they are facing the actual end of life decisions.  

I am another who can't fault B for having a breakdown, even if her kid was there.  Things happen and people react.  I can look back and remember the time my mother saw a mouse, freaked out, left my youngest sibling (an infant) on the floor, and ran and sat on the dining room table for more than an hour until my father could get there to "get it"  When an elderly relative died, for some reason, the parents of a toddler cousin of mine were unable to break the news to the child (I was an adult at the time), and I had to have the conversation.  That was weird, awkward and I'm still not sure how I got elected to do it.  And, I'm normally a pretty rational person in a crisis, I'm the one who handles things, tells other people what to do, etc.  But, when I got the phone call that my biological father had died suddenly and my husband was at work?  I calmly dialed him, asked for him, and when he answered?  Screamed X is dead!!!! And then was incoherent.  People are weird sometimes.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:05 PM, diadochokinesis said:

I agree, QuinnM.  She lives her life on social media with everything out there. I'm also with you on Hoppy.  I don't like him. I believe he is an abuser but I wouldn't give him any crap if he reacted this way.  I'm one of those people that LOVE my dogs.  My children will tell you that they are their siblings and the love I feel for my dogs is the same as I feel for my own kids. When my boxer died, I *lost* it. My parents' neighbor is similar--to the point that she lost it when one of our dogs died when I was in college.

Being a parent doesn't mean you are perfect or capable of being emotionless all the time.  Sometimes we panic, we freak out, we lose our shit. Our kids see it. It isn't going to emotionally scar Brynn and she isn't going to need therapy over this. A lot of people can't think rationally during a crisis. She lives her entire life on social media so yes, it probably would be the first place she would turn because she is used to always going to social media first.

Exactly.  Her social media presence is WHY her business is so successful.  She might not be liked by everyone but she has great PR game on social media and is able to turn it around to real money.

I agree.  Being emotionless is very damaging for a child.  It's scary to see your mother lose it when you're a child, but it's real.  You see your mother breakdown, express human emotions of fear and grief, and know that in the end she calms down, and deals with it.  That's how you raise a child who isn't afraid of emotion.  People try to shield their children from grief, and it's not helpful.  I remember an expert talking about how a child's mother had died.  The first person to see this child got down on her knees and held out her arms, and they sobbed together.  

When I was a child my mom had a couple of episodes in which people rushed me out of the room.  My mom tried to shield me from her anxiety and high emotions.  And while I can't say how deeply that may have impacted me, I grew up to be a person who found expressing emotion very difficult.  I prided myself on not shedding a tear at my cousin's funeral when I was 14, and at my dad's when I was 17.  I also freeze and get very anxious when voices get raised, and you would think I grew up in a violent household.

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, Jel said:

I think it's true that that kind of crazy behavior was the kind of thing Bethenny experienced as a child, but I see no irony in it. That's how cycles are formed and continue. If I had to guess I'd say that Bethenny is doing a much better job of parenting than her mother did, but under duress -- she was after all likely very tired from all the work and stress she'd been going through helping the people of Puerto Rico -- crap has a way of creeping back in.

I had a similar situation with our dog when my kid was about Bryn's age. And as much as I tried to cover my upset and extreme stress in that situation for the sake of my child, I would not be surprised if some of it got through. That's life, folks. We do the best we can. Sometimes it's not good enough.  I hope she can learn from this sad event and work on what happens to her when she faces an emotional crisis, so it doesn't have to unfold in this way again. 

I disagree that Bethenny is a narcissist. I think she's self absorbed and emotionally immature, she panics, and she has a lot of work to do in therapy, but meeting the clinical definition of NPD, no, I don't think so.

The loss of a pet is often the first loss a child experiences, and I think it's a very important thing to experience.  I remember going to college and being shocked how some classmates handled the loss of a grandparent.  It would usually be the people who'd never lost a pet, and they were just incapable of dealing with it.  By their age, I'd already lost a pet, two grandfathers, an uncle, two cousins, and my father.

It is not harmful for children to learn their mother is infallible.  And I think how we treat our pets is part of how we teach children empathy at a young age.  So Bethenny was falling apart.  Why is everyone acting like Bryn was hiding in the closet in a fugue state, completely ignored and traumatized.  Cookie was Bryn's dog, but Beth's first baby.

My 15 y/o cat had a seizure the other day and I completely freaked out and ran to my mom - and I'm Beth's age.  Would I have done the same if a child was present?  Absolutely, and I'm a nurse with a great deal of experience.  I'm human with human emotions.  Of course I knew where my vet was, how long it would take me to get there, where the nearest emergency vet was, but that wasn't the point.  The point is Tyler is an elderly cat with health issues, and on two meds already.  I lost it because I know this is end of life decision making time.  Do I want him on another med?  Do I want to traumatize him by rushing him to the vet, and will I have to make THE decision when I get there.  

[film noire]

3 hours ago, smores said:

I am another who can't fault B for having a breakdown, even if her kid was there.  

I may have missed some posts, but I haven't seen anybody criticizing her just for losing it, but for delaying treatment/filming/uploading the whole thing.

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

It is not harmful for children to learn their mother is infallible.

Yep -- repeating myself here, but I agree, witnessing your mother losing it/feeling emotion is very important for a child when a beloved pet dies (or in any crisis).

What's sick is watching your mother lose it, and then (instead of getting help) take video of your dog in deep distress, as your mom sobs for help like a child herself ("Help me!! What do we do, help us! Help us! What do we do? I don't know what to do! I don't know where to go!" -- all as Cookie seizes on camera, and Bryn chokes down a sob in the background -- as if she and Bryn were on The Titanic,  not fifteen seconds away from emergency vet help on the very phone she's using to upload video).

Good on Eve and Sara Gilbert for calling Frankel out on The View  (thanks, Mindthinkr) The Talk -- here's hoping it's criticism Bethenny genuinely hears.

Edited November 5, 2017 by film noire

[QuinnM]

Quote

I may have missed some posts, but I haven't seen anybody criticizing her just for losing it, but for delaying treatment/filming/uploading the whole thing

Ok, the dog had a couple of seizures.  Bethenny had called around and was informed the only place open was 40 minutes away.  Her dilemma was that they told her to either keep her quiet and comfortable or bring her in.  The question to social media was, have you dealt with this before, what is the best option, I don’t want to move her if it causes her more pain, I don’t want to delay treatment if it means I’ll lose her.

I thought I had outlined that but maybe not.  The question to social media was from the nearest vet.  She didn’t know what to do.  She was scared.  It was late at night.  She was alone with her daughter.  

So I am reading all the posts and it is about criticizing her for losing it and posting it on social media.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, QuinnM said:

 She didn’t know what to do.  She was scared.  It was late at night.  She was alone with her daughter.  

It was not late -- it was eight o'clock at night.  (Which means Bethenny likely lied when she said she HAD to post the video on social media, because "All my friends are asleep".)

I saw the video, and calling what she did "asking a question" is a stretch, imo.  She had a meltdown and made it public, for no valid reason. Melting down is one thing; uploading it to social media puts this into another category altogether.  And she could have asked a question, without gratuitously posting video of an animal in deep distress.

If she was that confused, asking total strangers for help was the worst thing to do. Exactly how do you parse through a thousand instant replies to find the good information?

Instead of filming her dog in distress and uploading it, she could have done what I did -- a fifteen second search online,  which brought up the link I posted above (Emergency vet care in the Hamptons, with 24 hour service). 

She could have filmed Cookie and sent it to the vet alone for next-step help.

She could have gotten into the car and gone to the nearest emergency vet. 

All those things are effective choices -- but also private, with no audience to engage with the chaos -- just solutions, no drama. That's the reason she's a narc, imo (or at least behaving exactly like one); they seek the audience first, and an end to the chaos & drama much later.

YMMV.

Edited November 6, 2017 by film noire

[Mindthinkr]

29 minutes ago, film noire said:

 

Good on Eve and Sara Gilbert for calling Frankel out on the View- here's hoping it's criticism Bethenny genuinely hears.

Edited 25 minutes ago by film noire.

I beIieve they are on a show called The Talk on CBS, not the View on ABC. 

[film noire]

Just now, Mindthinkr said:

I beIieve they are on a show called The Talk on CBS, not the View on ABC. 

Yes! (And thank you ; )

[Happy Camper]

I am so glad that I spared my kids my meltdowns when they were little. The thought of them witnessing them would really haunt me now. 

And the thought that posting those meltdowns on social media would be so embarrassing! I would definitely be losing sleep over that if the world was my witness!

[Mindthinkr]

Bethenny is now tweeting (and showing some mini videos of) some rescue dogs. They are underweight and it breaks my heart to see them (although I'm happy that they've been rescued).  This is like seeing  those sad commercials with Sarah McLaughlin singing. I had heard about what she posted re: Cookie and I chose to pass it by. Then on a daytime chat show they showed it. I had to leave the room. This must be how others feel when they see something sensitive or offensive and can't unsee it. She's working SM hard. 

[film noire]

54 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

 I had heard about what she posted re: Cookie and I chose to pass it by. Then on a daytime chat show they showed it. I had to leave the room. This must be how others feel when they see something sensitive or offensive and can't unsee it. 

a little online puppy therapy ; )

 

I'm glad she's working social media hard  - maybe it means she's aware of how inappropriate it was to do what she did to Cookie and her daughter.

Edited November 5, 2017 by film noire

[Mindthinkr]

Awww. Thank you Film Noir for the puppy therapy. It did put a smile on my face. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Ok, the dog had a couple of seizures.  Bethenny had called around and was informed the only place open was 40 minutes away.  Her dilemma was that they told her to either keep her quiet and comfortable or bring her in.  The question to social media was, have you dealt with this before, what is the best option, I don’t want to move her if it causes her more pain, I don’t want to delay treatment if it means I’ll lose her.

I thought I had outlined that but maybe not.  The question to social media was from the nearest vet.  She didn’t know what to do.  She was scared.  It was late at night.  She was alone with her daughter.  

So I am reading all the posts and it is about criticizing her for losing it and posting it on social media.

As has been pointed out, it wasn't "late at night" and, as pointed out, she had spoken to a vet earlier in the day, so she knew what to do per their instructions, wait the seizure out or bring Cookie to them, she instead chose to film this and post it to SM. She made this all about her, not Cookie IMO. 

Also, in that she was alone with Bryn, she should have acted like the adult (parent) in this, not the child unable to follow the vets instructions. Sometimes, we as parents need to put our emotions on the backburner to do what we need to do, in this case, get Cookie to the vets ASAP. Just an FYI, been there done that when it comes to losing a beloved pet with my, then, young son seeing it as well. We cried together when all was said and done.  

[Jextella]

25 minutes ago, film noire said:

puppy therapy ;)

 

I'm glad she's working media hard - maybe it means she's aware of how inappropriate it was to do what she did.

Damage control.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

This is like seeing  those sad commercials with Sarah McLaughlin singing. 

Forgot to say -- this is so funny because it's so true (especially the shelter dog PSA -- jesus, I hear "Arms of the Angels" start and dive for the remote.)

Edited November 6, 2017 by film noire

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:11 AM, RedDelicious said:

Just like she exploited Jason and her divorce from him. I've never believed any of her caterwauling about Jason and the divorce any more than I believe poor Cookie, her companion of 17 years, had her medical emergency in the middle of the night and Bethenny couldn't call her friends. She's very sick. Very, very sick. She will never not be sick. The saddest part of all is there is an innocent 7-year-old girl that's stuck with her.

I believe she drove Jason to the edge of insanity and it's magnified 1,000,0000 times because he loves and wants to protect his daughter. She has proven that she'll say and do ANYTHING for sympathy. It disgusts me. 

PREACH!!!

On 11/4/2017 at 4:18 PM, WireWrap said:

 Cookie was elderly and had known health problems well before Bethenny went to her Hamptons home last weekend, I don't buy that she didn't know the location of the ER vet clinic/number. IMO, this was her getting that attention fix she craves like any junkie craves their next hit/fix. Sad.

PREACH2!!!

On 11/4/2017 at 10:30 PM, Almost 3000 said:

I don't understand how she has an advanced age dog with a history of seizures and she seemed so unprepared. Granted I wouldn't know what to do in this situation but I can't imagine the vet hadn't given her some suggestions or medications to deal with this. I hate to say it but think she knew it was the end and that's why she posted it. Yes, I went there.

PREACH3!!!!!

Wealthy people can get anyone to their home including a vet, pronto with $$$$$. I don’t get how she didn’t have that lined up weeks and weeks ago “just in case” Cookies time came and it happened in Bridgehampton. 

[film noire]

10 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

My 15 y/o cat had a seizure the other day and I completely freaked out and ran to my mom - and I'm Beth's age.  

I don't know you, RHZ, but I'm pretty sure I can bet the farm that -- after running to your mom for comfort -- you didn't ask her to stand by while you taped the seizure and uploaded it to social media. 

Publicly displaying an animal companion in that state shows a complete lack of respect for the animal, imo, and I can't imagine doing that to any animal that has been in my life.  They give everything they are to us, and deserve better than that.

Edited November 6, 2017 by film noire

[smores]

Honestly?  I hope that Jason felt sad for his daughter that she was losing the pet she had had for all of her life so far, and was concerned that she understood the circle of life, etc.  

I get saying that it's weird to put the video out there, it's not the way that I, myself, would go.  But, when you need help/advice, sometimes you go the quickest route you can think of.  In the last year, my husband cut himself pretty badly in the kitchen, and I am not someone who can judge whether it needed stitches or not.  So, I did what I thought was reasonable, which was try to teach my MIL how to use facetime on the spot, so he could show it to her and get her opinion.  (She's a nurse)  There is a hospital about 8 minutes away, and in retrospect, it probably would have made more sense to just get in the car and go there (which, we did end up doing), but, at the time, maybe it didn't need stitches, so that seemed like the better way to go.  

For B, as I understand it, Cookie had seized, and she knew how to deal with shorter seizures, but it was the fact that it wasn't stopping that she was unsure of how to handle.  At what point do you stop and run to the vet?  Could you make things worse by trying to get there?  I wouldn't know, and I would be reaching out to people.  I don't actually have anyone in my circle who would know these things, so while I'm not sure I'd go on social media (because, again, it's not something I do in my daily life), I can see why she did.  If I tended to go to social media for other questions, then it would be natural to go there for that sort of thing, as you'd get answers fast.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, smores said:

when you need help/advice, sometimes you go the quickest route you can think of.  

But she actually took the route that was guaranteed to take much, much longer.

In the time it took her to film the vid of herself sobbing /begging total strangers for help  - never mind comb through all the comments, trying to gauge which ones could be trusted - Frankel could have called the vet at the 24 hour emergency clinic in the Hamptons.  A ten second phonecall versus all that. 

But even conceeding your argument -- that it would be faster to take all those extra/high drama steps -- even then, why post Cookie seizing? Why not just post *yourself*  asking for help,  instead of treating an animal companion like a freak at a sideshow? That's the indefensible part, imo. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by film noire

[smores]

I mean, I guess the same reason I thought it made sense to talk a non-tech savvy senior through how to facetime while my husband was bleeding rather than just texting a picture?  People do weird things when shit like that is going on.  Like I said in my case, looking back, I could have just taken him to the hospital and let them look at it.  Or, I could have texted her a picture.  Or, facetimed with another relative who is a nurse who actually knows how to facetime.  But, I opted for the least efficient route at the time, because it was the one that seemed to make the most sense.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

5 hours ago, smores said:

I mean, I guess the same reason I thought it made sense to talk a non-tech savvy senior through how to facetime while my husband was bleeding rather than just texting a picture?  People do weird things when shit like that is going on.  Like I said in my case, looking back, I could have just taken him to the hospital and let them look at it.  Or, I could have texted her a picture.  Or, facetimed with another relative who is a nurse who actually knows how to facetime.  But, I opted for the least efficient route at the time, because it was the one that seemed to make the most sense.  

Exactly.  You respond to a situation like that in the way that makes the most sense to you.  At the time, in the moment ... 

It's really easy to second guess someone else for how they respond to a medical emergency, but you have to remember that you are not them.  You don't have their experiences or habits or knowledge or their emotional tendencies.  You are not the person who was on the spot, going through the emotional pressure and not sure what to do.  Bethenny responded to Cookie being in distress by getting really emotional (not a surprise) and putting what was going on out in a social media blast (her all too common standard operating procedure).  She obviously was not prepared, either emotionally or logistically (just like so many other people who can't face their aging pet's immanent death and don't properly prepare) and she made some choices that don't make sense to some people.  But I think her choices made sense to her, at the time.   I suspect that like so many pet parents she had been telling herself that the end would come one day when she found that Cookie had passed in her sleep one morning, that it would be "peaceful" ... but what she got was an ugly medical situation that she just wasn't ready for and she handled it in the way that came most naturally to her. To her.

Was it ideal?  As judged by people not in the situation who have had time to calmly sit behind their keyboard and reflect, her response was a fail.  But how can anyone be so sure that all the things she could have done that have been suggested over and over and over would have been what they would have been capable of if it had been their eighteen-year-old dog experiencing a seizure that wouldn't stop? You don't know until you've been there.  You may think you'd be the picture of calm, but how can you know?  Even if you are preparing yourself for an aging pet's passing, when it really goes down, you may not handle it as well as you think you would. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[film noire]

I've been in medical emergencies before with both family members and pets (including a pet with a cancerous tumor in a long bone that caused her leg to splinter, which led her to being put down less than two hours later, when we thought we'd get another few weeks with her) and my first step was always call medical/vet personnel, not upload video of me freaking out/my pet in distress. 

Pretty sure I'm not remarkable in that choice, or particularly gifted when it comes to handling that kind of stress, but as always,  mileage varies.

Quote

I mean, I guess the same reason I thought it made sense to talk a non-tech savvy senior through how to facetime while my husband was bleeding rather than just texting a picture? 

But you were also asking a family member with med skills for an eval, so that makes sense -- what Frankel did was NOT ask someone with med skills (the vet) but total strangers on the net. 

Anybody see her on Shark Tank? (I haven't yet).

eta: Does anybody know if we can we discuss that in here, or only in that forum?

Edited November 8, 2017 by film noire
brevity! grammar! typos! laundry stains!

[OnceSane]

Stop nitpicking every little thing.  If you've expressed your opinion, move on.  The arguing over semantics needs to stop.

[Celia Rubenstein]

49 minutes ago, film noire said:

I've been in medical emergencies before with both family members and pets (including a pet with a cancerous tumor in a long bone that caused her leg to splinter, which led her to being put down less than two hours later, when we thought we'd get another few weeks with her) and my first step was always call medical/vet personnel,  not upload video of me begging for help to social media, with video of my pet in distress. 

Pretty sure I'm not remarkable in that choice, or particularly gifted when it comes to handling that kind of stress, but as always,  mileage varies.

You seem to have missed the point made in the first half of my post.  Which is that we all react differently based on who we are and what we know and what we have been through.  It's great that you were able to handle a medical emergency better than you judge Bethenny to have handled the one she was confronted with, but that doesn't mean that Bethenny's response was a criminal failing.  Maybe she is more emotional than you by nature, less able to handle the sight of a pet suffering.  Maybe she relies too much on social media to sort out her problems.  It's not like someone gave her a list of things you would do and a list of things you wouldn't do and she picked the second list just to be contrary...  She had to come up with her list of ways to respond all on her own.  So she did what came naturally to her.  It may not have been an ideal response.  But people make less than perfect decisions when they are terribly upset sometimes.

I just don't think what she did merits the level of attention or criticism it's receiving.  I mean, I get talking about it in the Bethenny thread (although I do think it is reaching dead horse territory to be honest) but they ragged on her on The Talk?  In a world facing the problems we are all facing, that's what got their panties in a twist?  It just feels like kicking someone when they are already pretty damn down in order to justify taking a ride on the high horse and kill a few minutes of airtime.  I confess  I don't watch The Talk ... maybe showing a video they find appalling just so they can rag on the person involved is their idea of addressing a serious issue.  It just seems incredibly petty to me.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I just don't think what she did merits the level of attention or criticism it's receiving. 

but they ragged on her on The Talk?  In a world facing the problems we are all facing, that's what got their panties in a twist?

Yes --  because to many people, the sight of an animal companion suffering was an ugly thing to upload, and showed disrespect for the animal. 

And it's fine you don't see it from that perspective - mileage varies and all that good stuff - but many people do, and Eve and Sara Gilbert are not, imo, being trivial for saying what they thought about how Cookie was treated. (Especially Gilbert, who is very much into animal causes - this is a natural/in her wheelhouse thing for her to care about).

Quote

You seem to have missed the point made in the first half of my post. 

I was responding to your overall point that none of us know how we would respond, until we've been in a crisis situation -- sorry that was unclear/confusing.

@OnceSane - can we discuss Frankel's Shark Tank appearance in here? 

Edited November 7, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

38 minutes ago, film noire said:

Yes --  because to many people, the sight of an animal companion suffering was an ugly thing to upload, and showed disrepect for the animal. 

 

... so it was an ugly thing for Bethenny to upload for her followers, but not too ugly to replay on the show for an audience of  ... how many hundreds of thousands?  That seems at best inconsistent and quite possibly hypocritical to me, but as you say mileage varies.  It just feels more like exploitation of the situation and less like sincere compassion to me.  

Too bad Sara Gilbert wasn't enough of an animal lover to demand Cookie be afforded the dignity on her show that she feels Bethenny denied her in her final hours. But, you know ... ratings. 

 

Quote

I was responding to your overall point that none of us know how we would respond, until we've been in a crisis situation -- sorry that was unclear/confusing.

You weren't unclear and I wasn't confused, lol.  It just seems like my overall point about how people can respond differently to medical emergencies without it being proof of having an evil character seems to have been lost ... 

[Lisin]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

@OnceSane - can we discuss Frankel's Shark Tank appearance in here? 

I’m not @OnceSane but I can reply that Shark Tank talk should be done in the Shark Tank forum please! Thanks. 

[film noire]

7 hours ago, Lisin said:

I’m not @OnceSane but I can reply that Shark Tank talk should be done in the Shark Tank forum please! Thanks. 

Thanks, Lisin!

8 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

... so it was an ugly thing for Bethenny to upload for her followers, but not too ugly to replay on the show for an audience of  ... how many hundreds of thousands?  

I don't know if they showed Cookie seizing -- it wasn't part of the clip I saw of the panel discussion.

Quote

Too bad Sara Gilbert wasn't enough of an animal lover to demand Cookie be afforded the dignity on her show that she feels Bethenny denied her in her final hours. But, you know ... ratings. 

I don't agree Gilbert is a ratings hound. She's done fundraising for PETA (not an org I support  - that mess in Virginia a few years ago was horrendous - but she's put her money where her mouth is).

Edited November 7, 2017 by film noire

[Lemons]

My dog has neurological "events", I'm not sure if they are seizures. The doctor told me to record the next one on my phone. (I wouldn't let anyone but the doctor see it).  But a seizure doesn't necessarily mean the dog is dying. My dog goes back to his normal old self right after these bizarre episodes. So what I don't understand is was this the first time he had a seizure?  Did the dog die from the seizure or did they put him to sleep?  If they put him to sleep, why?  What was the diagnosis?  

[smores]

I honestly haven't watched everything, but, from what I gather, Cookie has had a few seizures (or events) over the last however long (months/years/etc), as she was 17.  Typically, she had an event, it passed, everything went back to normal.  In this particular case, the event went on far longer than usual (40 mins? maybe longer), and that's where the drama occurred.  B took Cookie to the vet when it wasn't ending, and they tried to treat her.  She either didn't recover in the way they wanted, or seized again, and it was time to make a hard decision.  Based on her age, it was time to put her down.

[Lemons]

1 hour ago, smores said:

I honestly haven't watched everything, but, from what I gather, Cookie has had a few seizures (or events) over the last however long (months/years/etc), as she was 17.  Typically, she had an event, it passed, everything went back to normal.  In this particular case, the event went on far longer than usual (40 mins? maybe longer), and that's where the drama occurred.  B took Cookie to the vet when it wasn't ending, and they tried to treat her.  She either didn't recover in the way they wanted, or seized again, and it was time to make a hard decision.  Based on her age, it was time to put her down.

Scary. I feel sick thinking about something like that going for 40 minutes. My 17 year old dog is my first and only pet and I'm a bit scared. Our 24 hour vet is about 30 minutes away because we moved. I'm going to look for another one closer.  this incident is making me take action anyway. 

[gundysgirl]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:10 PM, Jextella said:

New normal for whom?  

I get that there may be an audience, but who cares.

Well, just judging from the sheer amount of interest in this from Bethenny, it seems like a lot of people care. 

People handle things differently. The loss of a pet can be beyond traumatizing. I was out of town years ago and my phone rang. All I hear when I answer the phone is screaming and wailing from the other end. It is my husband calling. But I cannot make out what is happening and I am freaking out because of the screaming on the other end of the phone. My guy is a fairly stoic guy. The kind of guy you would want in an emergency. But our cat jumped up on my sons bed to go to sleep as was his usual routine at night, then just started convulsing. It went on for several minutes and my husband and kids were beyond freaked out. After several minutes the cat died on the bed with my son. My husband called me right after and I have never heard this man like this. Not when his father shot himself and he found his body in the living room. Not ever. He said later he was ashamed because he should have held it together for the kids who were traumatized and looking for reassurance but he simply could not. He still talks about the way that he reacted, mainly of the fact that he scared me so badly on the phone. No video or social media, but then he cannot even figure out how to take a picture on his phone. Things happen. People don't react the way we always think that they will. Our kids survived just fine. They think no less of him and when they talk of it now it is of how they all went through it together. All scared together. Hardly the crime of the century. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by gundysgirl