S06.E05: The Scale Of Affection Is Fluid

[backformore]

Adam was a jerk for interfering with Julia's life, considering her kids were there. But Julia needed to step up and put an end to it. What the he'll is wrong with Adam? Joel is "family" when the Snowflake Academy needs help, but once he's not needed, he's disrespected like this?

Amber needs to quit drinking and drugging for a few months? How about a decade or more? News flash, Amber, having a baby changes EVERYTHING. And, yeah, most guys your age are not looking for the kind of "baggage" you have. It doesn't make them shallow, it just means they are at a different stage of life than you are. You want to keep this baby? Then step up and be an adult.

Oh , and Amber bringing weed to Drew' s dorm room was just irresponsible. I know she said it was medical, but Drew doesn't have a prescription. I know the laws in California might be lax, but she's still putting him at risk, bringing it to his dorm.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I think it's fine if Amber wants to date, but she needs to be realistic. How many guys in their early to mid 20s want to date a chick who is pregnant? Maybe that's narrowminded or whatever, but it's still reality so don't act all shocked when it doesn't work out after a guy finds out you're pregnant on the first date. And yes, she can date after the baby is born but again, how many guys are interested in dating a single mom with a newborn? I'm not saying she has to be celibate forever, but she just needs to be realistic about her situation. She is pregnant. She is going to be pregnant for the next few months. Then she will be a mother with a tiny baby who will need her constant attention for the immediate future. There is nothing wrong with a guy who you just met not wanting to deal with that. If your primary concern is that you can't smoke, drink, or date for the next few months then maybe you should consider your decision to keep this baby.

 

Now that you've laid it all out this way, I'm thinking maybe the show will take the route of Amber realizing she is not ready for this and the baby will be better off with someone who is.  They went all around the infant adoption issue with Joel and Julia, result being they never got an infant.  Maybe with Amber, she will be one who will actually go through with it.  Not likely, maybe, but possible. 

[Pickles]

I was reading that the show will skip ahead several months after a certain episode. I don't know which episode, though. I predict Zeek will bite the dust and at the same time, Amber will give birth to baby Zeek. I will be irritated if the tech start up guy resurfaces to save the day for Amber. That would be too much like a fairy tale.

I also think Joel and Julia will end up back together. Mainly for the sake of "family". This has been a very unsatisfactory storyline for me. Why did Joel leave in the first place? It was so random and out of character. I do like Julia's new boyfriend.

[BC Mama]

I am wondering why Joel showed up at the BBQ to begin with? Was this explained? I was colouring with my son while watching, so I could have missed this. I don't think it is appropriate for a separated parent to show up unannounced like that.

 

Crosby was sensitive to his dad probably not wanting him to see him falter on the treadmill.  It was nice of him to sneak back out so Zeke wouldn't know.

 

I agree. I think part of his backing out was because he is having a difficult time seeing his father as an aging parent, and wanted to escape seeing any more.

 

I think Kristina is right about this.  She doesn't want to see him heartbroken and alone, and that's why she didn't want Adam backtracking on how ratings happen, and why she was listing off traits that Max doesn't really have.  Building him up before the letdown kind of thing.  He is not warmhearted as Mittengirl and Everleigh said, he was quite the dick to his young former friend in a wheelchair.  I don't even know how much he will care if Dylan shuts him down.

 

I can totally understand wanting to protect your child from heartbreak, but I think surviving your first unrequited crush is a necessary part of teenage-hood! 

 

I'm glad Joel was angry at Julia but acted pretty decent considering. Now that Sydney and Victor have met college guy as a "work friend" you don't think when later they find out he's mommy's boyfriend that is going to cause all kinds of hell. Way to be underhanded with your kids.

 

I don't blame Julia for College guy being and staying at the party, but I do blame her for lying to her kids about "who" he really is. I think after that party she should have outed her relationship with him to her kids. Wasn't the way she planned or the speed, but she will do far more damage to HER relationship with her children later when the truth comes out and they feel lied to by her. Just b/c the timing wasn't in her control doesn't mean she handled it right. Her children are old enough to handle this information. Julia seems to be trying to hold on and let go at the same time and it will do far more damage than help.

 

I disagree. I don't think a new partner should be introduced to children as such until the parent knows that the relationship will be long term. Sidney's behaviour shows that she is not ready for any more change, and it would be particularly confusing to the kids to see mom in a new relationship when Julia and Joel haven't shared any definitive decisions with the kids.

[Gooey]

I think it's fine if Amber wants to date, but she needs to be realistic. How many guys in their early to mid 20s want to date a chick who is pregnant? Maybe that's narrowminded or whatever, but it's still reality so don't act all shocked when it doesn't work out after a guy finds out you're pregnant on the first date. And yes, she can date after the baby is born but again, how many guys are interested in dating a single mom with a newborn? I'm not saying she has to be celibate forever, but she just needs to be realistic about her situation. She is pregnant. She is going to be pregnant for the next few months. Then she will be a mother with a tiny baby who will need her constant attention for the immediate future. There is nothing wrong with a guy who you just met not wanting to deal with that. If your primary concern is that you can't smoke, drink, or date for the next few months then maybe you should consider your decision to keep this baby.

 

 

Now that you've laid it all out this way, I'm thinking maybe the show will take the route of Amber realizing she is not ready for this and the baby will be better off with someone who is.  They went all around the infant adoption issue with Joel and Julia, result being they never got an infant.  Maybe with Amber, she will be one who will actually go through with it.  Not likely, maybe, but possible.

 

 

Now this, would be an interesting switch, One I'd like to see in fact.

I'm really disappointed with how they've portrayed Amber this season. They've shown her become pregnant in an accidently-on-purpose type way (hello, morning after pill?), which is fine if TPTB showed her actually own the decision. Instead they have her whine about not being able to drink or smoke; not planning/thinking at all with regards to how the frick she's actually going to manage; not wanting to tell Ryan etc etc.

 

If she had planned/hoped to get pregnant under some misguided romantic notion of trying to hold onto Ryan (or even just the memory of Ryan) it wouldn't have been wise, but would have been understandable if she went full steam ahead with pregnancy & motherhood. Instead, we have her go through with a pregnancy that she's really not on board with. For what end?

Edited October 25, 2014 by Gooey

[txhorns79]

If he doesn't want Camille to nag him about taking his medication and call because she's worried about him, the solution is simple: act like an adult. Take your medication without being told to. If you wife thinks you will be home at a certain time and you decide to go to a bar with your son, just call her to let her know that you will be home later. It's not rocket science and it's not unreasonable.

 

I would say this goes both ways, and I sympathize with both Camille and Zeek.  It's very difficult to be put in a position of dependence when you are used to being very independent, just like it's difficult to have a spouse suddenly become dependent on you.  It takes a lot of adjustment on all sides, and plenty of people handle that very badly.   

 

 

Adam was a jerk for interfering with Julia's life, considering her kids were there. But Julia needed to step up and put an end to it. What the he'll is wrong with Adam? Joel is "family" when the Snowflake Academy needs help, but once he's not needed, he's disrespected like this?

 

I was very surprised Julia didn't ask Adam what he was thinking in that scenario.   It was like he was doing everything for his own amusement. 

 

Adam was just an all around jerk this episode.  I just wanted to yell at him when he undermined the advice he and Kristina were trying to give Max: "Your son doesn't respect normal social boundaries with people.  He already thinks it is normal to go through someone's trash as a way to find out more about that person.  Do not build up the idea that he will get a girl who is not interested by persisting in his pursuit of her.  That will almost always end with a restraining order."

Edited October 25, 2014 by txhorns79

[backformore]

I really didn't like the way Crosby was talking to Max about making out with girls. his whole thing about the "bases" and saying things like "touchy touchy" and "down south" was totally inappropriate to any kid, but especially a kid with ASD, who takes things literally. MAX IS just at the stage where he's trying to figure out how to talk to girl he's interested in, and Crosby was encouraging him to "score". I think his intent was to amuse himself and Adam, but Crosby was being an ass. And Adam was a bigger ass for allowing it.

[Portia]

I'm tired of listening to the Braverman men complain about having too many people who love and worry about them. First it was Zeek last episode and now Crosby's upset because his wife doesn't want him to die and his son wants to spend time with him? Oh, the horror! I just wish someone would come in and tell them both to shut up and appreciate the fact that they have families who love them.

So much this! Leave it to me to get really worked up about something no one else seems to be bothered by, but I was absolutely infuriated by Crosby driving recklessly on a city street so he and his dad can feel like carefree teenagers. Maybe I can't expect Crosby to consider his post-operative elderly father "precious cargo" (though that's certainly how I felt when I had frail, elderly parents to transport). But if they really MUST drive like that, for goodness' sake find a parking lot or someplace where you won't be endangering innocent strangers. Neither of these man-boys is capable of thinking of anyone but himself! Argh! I can't with this.

 

Regarding how Amber will pay for her pregnancy and delivery.  If Amber has income under 31k a year, she qualifies for Medical pregnancy services. If her income is between 31k and 46k she will qualify for a program that only expects her to pay 5% of her income..

Luckily for her California wants healthy babies.

Will Amber and the baby be eligible for subsidized housing? Something affordable and SAFE?

 

Max's interaction with his toddler sister might be a good barometer of any alleged "warmheartedness" on his part. Has there been any of that EVER?

 

I have a hard time believing the hippy-dippy Snowflake Academy has traditional school bells to signal class changes. I would expect the invisible teachers to gently whisper to the students, "Time to move from Playing with Knives class to Reading in the Lounge class . . . unless you'd rather not . . . Your call!" 

Edited October 25, 2014 by Portia

[txhorns79]

Will Amber and the baby be eligible for subsidized housing? Something affordable and SAFE?

 

I'd have to think either her mother or some other family member would take her in well before she ever would look into subsidized housing.  I mean, those places are meant for people who have no other resource, not people with relatively well to do family members who would gladly take them in.   

[Hanahope]

I just had to chuckle when Amber lamented that no guy would ever date her again because she was going to have a baby.  I don't think that ever stopped Sarah.

[alexvillage]

 

I really didn't like the way Crosby was talking to Max about making out with girls. his whole thing about the "bases" and saying things like "touchy touchy" and "down south" was totally inappropriate to any kid, but especially a kid with ASD, who takes things literally

The whole thing is extremely sexist.

[marceline]

 

I'd have to think either her mother or some other family member would take her in well before she ever would look into subsidized housing.  I mean, those places are meant for people who have no other resource, not people with relatively well to do family members who would gladly take them in.

 

It seems even more unfortunate now that Zeek and Camille sold their old place instead of selling or renting it to one of the kids. Especially since the house they bought has turned out to be a slightly bad idea given Zeek's new health situation. 

[Inquisitionist]

Especially since the house they bought has turned out to be a slightly bad idea given Zeek's new health situation. 

 

Whatever possessed them to buy a place with multiple floors?  I thought a general rule of retirement living was "no stairs."

[panthergirl13]

Whatever possessed them to buy a place with multiple floors?  I thought a general rule of retirement living was "no stairs."

They would have been better off in the old house. The showrunners probably lost access to the property or something. Still, at one point Camille was looking at an apartment in a high-rise... that would have made more sense.

[txhorns79]

They would have been better off in the old house. The showrunners probably lost access to the property or something. Still, at one point Camille was looking at an apartment in a high-rise... that would have made more sense.

 

I think both properties have their own advantages and disadvantages.  The old property was spread out over multiple buildings and was in need of upkeep and maintenance that would have been difficult for Zeek and Camille in their current situation.  The new property seems to have too many stairs, but is otherwise in better shape and less spread out.     

[candall]

For the sake of role modeling, I would really like Amber to make the tough, heartbreaker decision and give up the baby for adoption.  If they want Parenthood to cover all the bases of good parenting, that would be a possible scenario.  

 

I posted a comparison between Amber and the Pregnant At 16 girls before and someone immediately pointed out that Amber is not a teenager, but the storylines are definitely similar:

 

--"Wow, I didn't think unprotected sex would result in pregnancy for ME."

--"Abortion?  I don't want that and asking me to discuss it equals you not being at all supportive."

--"Hello, Baby Daddy?  You're out?/You're out!"

--"Being pregnant doesn't necessarily mean stuff has to change.  Oh, it does?  Well, it's just for a few months, then my life can get back to normal, except I'll have a cute baby."

 

Would I get totally shot down to suggest that--in today's world of information--there's a large overlap between people who don't take steps to protect themselves from a surprise pregnancy and people who aren't yet mature enough to handle raising a baby?  (And of course there are exceptions.)

 

The Braverman clan is a primetime tv show warm, smart, tight-knit bunch with some sort of magic piggy bank that spits out cash when the chips are down and I'm still thinking Otis is going to wind up taking care of a second kid.  Otis Academy!

Edited October 26, 2014 by candall

[Shermie]

The trouble with this show (and many others, for that matter) is that the characters do not communicate in a realistic or helpful way.

Adam tries to push Julia's new boyfriend into a family gather in when she's not ready? Normal people would say, "Adam, we appreciate the invitation, but our relationship just isn't at that stage yet." And that would be that.

Joel has never explained why he left his family, and Julia has never demanded an answer.

Crosby yammers on and on to a young, immature teenage boy with his first crush about getting to all the bases, and the boy's father doesn't just say, "Crosby, that's inappropriate, and he's not ready for that. Please stop."

Amber yammers on and on about how she can't date and drink and some pot because she's pregnant. Zeek ignores his needed medication because he's on some sort of weird midlife crisis with his son. And on it goes.

No one talks, no one says what needs to be said. They stammer and stutter and giggle and sputter, and say all kinds of nonsense, and the idiocy goes on. It's frustrating, as a viewer.

They even add a throwaway line about Aida being with Jasmines mother, but no mention of Jabbar. Why not say the kids are with my mom. It's like the writers are trying to stave off petty internet criticism but don't even know what they're writing about. Why not toss in a more logical and explanatory throwaway line like, "why did you take a cab here Jasmine? We could have just taken one home." And she could have angrily replied, "because then I'd have to take another one to get my van back in the morning, which I need to take Jabbar to school!" Not only does that actually explain actions, it demonstrates her annoyance.

I realize it's a very trivial part of the show, but it just demonstrates that some decent writing can explain actions and emotions, instead of a bunch of illogical and disconnected behaviours.

[NoReally]

 

Adam tries to push Julia's new boyfriend into a family gather in when she's not ready? Normal people would say, "Adam, we appreciate the invitation, but our relationship just isn't at that stage yet." And that would be that.

 

I think Julia's new boyfriend is her old boyfriend from college, right? And I got the impression that Adam (and maybe the rest of the family) knew him from back then and didn't know Julia is now actually dating him again. It seemed like he was glad to see the guy and didn't see any reason not to ask him to play some ball and have a burger.

 

More confusing, to me, is why Joel showed up at the barbeque. Was that ever explained?

[stillbored]

I think Julia's new boyfriend is her old boyfriend from college, right? And I got the impression that Adam (and maybe the rest of the family) knew him from back then and didn't know Julia is now actually dating him again. It seemed like he was glad to see the guy and didn't see any reason not to ask him to play some ball and have a burger.

 

More confusing, to me, is why Joel showed up at the barbeque. Was that ever explained?

I thought the same thing. I believe the only one that knew that Julia was involved with this guy was Sarah because she was sitting right next to her in the waiting room when the briefcase arrived. But clearly Adam doesn't take no for an answer (althought the boyfriend could have and should have just left. I don't know why he was pressured into staying easily). I thought that maybe somebody invited Joel to the BBQ since they all seem to consider him to still be family.

I also had no issues with Julia introducing him as her co-worker. Although I do take issue with her dating other people while not wanting to discuss with Joel if the marriage is in fact completely over, or if he still has a shot at getting her back. It's not like Julia had a one night stand with this and is regretting her decision. She is dating him and has gotten on multiple dates with him so I just don't understand why she doesn't just tell Joel (and then the kids) that the marriage is definitely over and therefore file for divorce.

[camom]

 

More confusing, to me, is why Joel showed up at the barbeque. Was that ever explained?

I think he was there to pick up the kids for his time with them.

[backformore]

Yeah, I just assumed Adam knew him from when Julia was dating him  in college.  I don't think anyone knows that she's dating him besides Sarah because she was there when the twizzlers briefcase happened.  But I don't think if Adam knew they were dating,he probably wouldn't have been all "bbq!" because I think he's smart enough to realize that the situation is testy. I would hope so, at least. I don't know..

I disagree.   Adam knew Julia and Joel were separated, he knew this guy as "julia's ex-boyfriend". That's enough information to know to not push him to stay for the party.    Adam's role would be to take Julia aside and say "Do you want to invite your friend to stay?  he's welcome, and we have plenty of food."   Period.  It needed to be left up to Julia, especially since her kids were there.

 

This family is always all up in each other's business like this.  they have very poor boundaries.  

[Jillybean]

Oh good heaven, I am STILL watching this show and following it here!  Why?  Can someone tell me why?  It has become nearly unwatchable and yet I find myself watching each week.  This has to be the final season....I can not do another year of this crap!

I'm only still watching because I'm still hoping for a valid explanation of why Joel left Julia.  

 

And yes, this is the "Farewell Season,"  thank goodness. 

[ShadowFacts]

I think Julia telling Sidney that she and Joel just don't know what's going to happen is really unfair, to all of them.  Joel got his own apartment months ago, Julia is sleeping with her new/old boyfriend and has dated others, they aren't in counseling, hmm, sure smells like divorce to me.  If not, maybe put the brakes on the new man, because you can't really be quasi-married and have a new man around with young kids in the house.  Really bad parenting. 

[stillbored]

I think Julia telling Sidney that she and Joel just don't know what's going to happen is really unfair, to all of them.  Joel got his own apartment months ago, Julia is sleeping with her new/old boyfriend and has dated others, they aren't in counseling, hmm, sure smells like divorce to me.  If not, maybe put the brakes on the new man, because you can't really be quasi-married and have a new man around with young kids in the house.  Really bad parenting.

I completely agree. I suppose it's possibe that they lied to Sydney because they didn't want to upset her at that moment but they are making zero effort to reconcile and fix what is wrong. They are hardly speaking to each other - except for when Joel nearly called Julia a slut and stating that she's seeing a different guy every week. I do think it's crappy of Julia to be dating another guy before her and Joel even file for divorce but she seems to have spent too much time waiting for Joel to come back (when he wouldn't even discuss his problems).

[cali1981]

A lot of interesting viewpoints on last weeks show and the series generally.  Whatever Julia's faults are, Joel absolutely blew up their marraige and acted like a horse's ass.  With the series ending, it will be interesting to see how the writers resolve their situation if they do at all.  I've watched Parenthood from day one and have alwways enjoyed it.  One exception has been Monica Potter's portrayal of Christina.  I don't know if it's the writing, the actor's interpretation of the writng or (most likely) both but I've always found Christina to be overbearing and histrionic.  She suffers from acute tunnel vision at times and how Adam puts up with her as well and as consistently as he does is beyond me. 

[ShadowFacts]

 

 

A lot of interesting viewpoints on last weeks show and the series generally.  Whatever Julia's faults are, Joel absolutely blew up their marraige and acted like a horse's ass.  With the series ending, it will be interesting to see how the writers resolve their situation if they do at all.  I've watched Parenthood from day one and have alwways enjoyed it.  One exception has been Monica Potter's portrayal of Christina.  I don't know if it's the writing, the actor's interpretation of the writng or (most likely) both but I've always found Christina to be overbearing and histrionic.  She suffers from acute tunnel vision at times and how Adam puts up with her as well and as consistently as he does is beyond me. 

It is interesting which characters people favor or can't stand.  Christina is OK with me, no more overbearing or histrionic than many in her family, and fairly nurturing and helpful in my view, leaving all things Max aside.  My hackles get up more for Julia, who seems to also have tunnel vision, Sarah who just never grows up, ditto Crosby.  At this point, you can see that generation has been more influenced by Zeek than Camille.  Jasmine irritates me more than any other in-law.  Of the young generation, Drew is turning out to be the most level, maybe Haddie if we'd see her enough to be able to judge. 

 

[BetyBee]

I thought that the actor playing Max looked like he was about to crack up when Adam and Crosby were explaining the bases.  It was nice to see a smile, however small, on Max's face. 

[Literata]

 

Whatever Julia's faults are, Joel absolutely blew up their marriage and acted like a horse's ass.

Amen. And I know I keep going back to this, but in the first season, he continued to hang out with Raquel despite the fact that she had tried to kiss him ... and despite the fact that he had HID that little factoid from Julia. So he had no reason to be all holier-than-thou over Julia and Ed. I like Joel, but I'm over this story arc. 

[mythoughtis]

Joel and Julia have been separated for several months at this stage. He told her he did not wish to work on the marriage.... but he didn’t pursue  divorce.   I don’t see why she shouldn’t be able to date. People often date while seperated. Couples often delay divorces for years. I do agree with not telling the kids she’s dating yet. 

I thought Julia put off telling the kids in this episode because she saw Joel’s face as she started telling the kids. She could tell he didn’t want the words to be said and gave him that respect.  It is amusing to see Joel realize that Julia isn’t a doll for him to put on a shelf and come back for later.  I say that as someone who really liked Joel’s character in the first 3 seasons.  Joel is going to have to work hard and come up with some explanation for leaving if he wants Julia back. Which I think he does. 

Julia did not sleep with Ed even after the seperation. Ed was not a valid reason for Joel leaving for more than a day or two.  She slept once with the teacher, admitted she still wasn’t ready. Now it’s been months and she’s dating someone she knew already . Seems perfectly reasonable to me.