What's the most out of the box thing Gotham could do?

[Kromm]

A lot of "what's to come" is probably set in stone. Bruce Wayne successfully grows up to become Batman.  Gordon lives to become Commissioner.  Penguin, Riddler and Catwoman, Poison Ivy, etc. don't go anywhere either.

 

But within those lines (especially since a lot of minor characters from the comics have been trans-located in time anyway), what's the wildest out there thing you could see this show actually doing? Wild, but actually credible, I mean.

 

Here's my idea.  We find out the Waynes' killer is... Harvey Bullock.

 

What's yours?

Edited October 22, 2014 by Kromm

[darkestboy]

A musical number. Always a musical number.

 

Hell, a musical episode.

[MisterGlass]

The Dark Knight Dances?  Arkham Side Story?

 

They could push Gordon further into the gray, if he actually did choose to take another life to save himself, and carry out the threat of the first episode.

 

They could also kill off a comic canon character, like Barbara.

[Camera One]

They could have Gordon take on an alter-ego to fight crime without restriction, and that is who Bruce takes inspiration on to become Batman.

 

They could reveal that Bruce's parents faked their deaths.

[Kromm]

They could also kill off a comic canon character, like Barbara.

In the comics, Barbara Kean has both lived AND died. She's not even necessary for Batgirl, since there are versions where Barbara Gordon is the child of Jim's brother Roger and his wife Thelma. In another version, Jim IS the father, because Jim and Thelma slept together, even though she wound up marrying Roger. Then there's a sub-version where Jim and Barbara Kean have a son named Tony, and THEN little Barbara is adopted after the other Gordons die. In another versions Jim and Barbara Kean have a son named James Junior, and Barbara Gordon is their second child. In yet another version, Barbara Gordon is an only child. In some of these versions Barbara Kean is dead from Barbara Gordon's early childhood, and in others she simply packed up and left Jim and moved to Chicago (with the older child).

The show has a lot of options to pick from.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Kromm

[Eegah]

I said it in her own thread, but it's worth repeating here: Fish Mooney as a female Joker. The more I've thought about it since coming up with the theory, the more plausible it seems that they deliberately created a character who would be insanely obvious as the future Joker if they were a man, but since she's a woman people wouldn't consider it.

[MarkHB]

The show has a lot of options to pick from.

There was also the version where Batgirl was Alfred's niece, but maybe it's best not to discuss that.... ;)

[Kromm]

There was also the version where Batgirl was Alfred's niece, but maybe it's best not to discuss that.... ;)

Yes, that's just as well we don't.

[Milz]

Across the street from Arkham, a school for gifted youngsters is opened by a man named Charles Xavier.

 

And an insane guy who goes by the name The Tick, starts fighting crime in Gotham, aided by a former accountant named Arthur.

[Kromm]

Across the street from Arkham, a school for gifted youngsters is opened by a man named Charles Xavier.

 

And an insane guy who goes by the name The Tick, starts fighting crime in Gotham, aided by a former accountant named Arthur.

Hee.

 

Although I did say "Wild, but actually credible"!  Inviting intellectual property lawsuits?  Probably not so credible!!!

Edited October 23, 2014 by Kromm

[MisterGlass]

Surely Gotham can accomodate Batman and Batmanuel.

[rho]

A musical number. Always a musical number.

 

Hell, a musical episode.

 

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Had to share! Just try not to get it stuck in your head all day.

Edited October 24, 2014 by rho

[MarkHB]

Surely Gotham can accomodate Batman and Batmanuel.

And Die Fledermaus! :)

[Milz]

Hee.

 

Although I did say "Wild, but actually credible"!  Inviting intellectual property lawsuits?  Probably not so credible!!!

 

they would have to get the rights from Marvel and Ben Edlund. Face it, it would be totally out of the box for them to get the Tick.

 

Surely Gotham can accomodate Batman and Batmanuel.

 

It could explain why adult Bruce becomes Batman---to avoid confusion with Batmanuel.

 

 

And Die Fledermaus! :)

 

Bingo!

 

Besides, teenaged Bruce needs a competent accountant to help him manage the Wayne estate and holdings. Arthur is an accountant, until he gets his moth suit.

[MarkHB]

Or maybe... I can picture adult Bruce musing late at night in his study about how criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot, when he is startled by something flying in through his window and exclaims, "That's it!  I shall become... a moth!"

 

Seconds later, the moth is eaten by a bat, but Bruce is too excited about the moth idea to notice.

[marketdoctor]

 

they would have to get the rights from Marvel and Ben Edlund.

 

Well, good news and bad news--Ben Edlund is a co-executive producer on Gotham, so...it's only half-impossible.  I'd even be happy if Lestor Carbonell and Liz Vassey show up, and he says "that gives me an idea..." and she says "no."  I'd also love a return of BiPolar Bear, from the cartoon series.  Also, (different franchise) Bad Horse should do a cameo.

 

Jim Gordon has a one-night stand with (I'm guessing on a first name here) Sarah Smoak.  She doesn't tell him he has a daughter, Felicity. 

 

Booster Gold shows up, briefly.  He saves Bruce's life, says "don't ask", and disappears.

 

Felicia Day as Diana Prince.

[Eegah]

Constantine shows up, makes out with a man, and disappears, just to tweak David Goyer's nose.

[Tenshinhan]

There was also the version where Batgirl was Alfred's niece, but maybe it's best not to discuss that.... ;)

 

Movie was terrible, but I actually don't mind Batgirl being Alfred's niece in the film.  I would have enjoyed a red-headed Barbara Gordon, but the Commissioner was such an afterthought in those sequels that it would have seemed out of place.  (Also, less importantly, Uma and her hair color.)  The character being a relative of Alfred probably served the story best, in my opinion.

 

Additionally, it's a nice reference to the 'Bat-Girl' Betty Kane/Daphne Pennyworth comic book stories.  Say what you will about that film, but it had many clever callbacks to the source material.

 

 

[Kromm]

Felicia Day as Diana Prince.

Putting all the jokey suggestions that have appeared aside (including... well... who you want to play this), the overall idea of Diana Prince showing up is outside the box, but hardly impossible.  The DC ban on the character showing up in other shows/movies not starring her is supposedly at an end, I believe, and she certainly isn't constrained to normal human aging--so she'd still appear to be the same age by the time Bruce was an adult.

 

It won't happen, but it's an entertaining notion.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Kromm

[MarkHB]

Here are a couple of wild-eyed ideas that aren't completely bonkers:

 

1. Bruce's flips by a Captain Carrot cartoon on his TV

2. Debra Winger plays a role and they wink at her days as Wonder Girl.

[Kromm]

2. Debra Winger plays a role and they wink at her days as Wonder Girl.

I think we'd sooner see Yvonne Craig show up.

 

Ah well, probably not.  She's been doing voice-over work in the past few years apparently, but otherwise hasn't acted for decades.

 

Okay, how about this, Julie Newmar as a bag lady who Selina meets on the streets. 

 

Meh, again probably not.  Newmar is alive, but also kind of out of the business.  Although.. she looks incredible for her age--here's a picture of her from within the past year.

 

Edited October 25, 2014 by Kromm

[Milz]

Julie Newmar looks FABULOUS! I (and Mr. Milz for that matter) would like to look as put together as she when I'm her age.

 

I just thought of something. The Legion of Superheroes can go back in time to make sure something happens that Bruce pursues becoming Batman.

[MarkHB]

How about: when we finally meet the Joker, he's played by Tim Curry!

[Kromm]

Here's my crazy new one. 

 

The show flips the script on Renee Montoya and Crispus Allen.

 

In the comics Montoya eventually becomes a figure called The Question and Allen one called The Spectre. While it's unlikely it would happen the same way in a slightly more grounded world (the Question has a magic face hiding thing and The Spectre is... well... a giant super-powerful Ghost, basically--so neither is friendly towards a more realistic Gotham), maybe there's way to fuck with people's heads a bit.  One important aspect is that neither Montoya nor Allen are the FIRST people to be The Question or The Spectre.

 

But now Montoya and Allen have been transposed 20 years into the past.  Here's an opportunity.  Vic Sage and Jim Corrigan no longer are the "first" of those names. Montoya and Allen are.  Strip away anything supernatural (Allen) or super-sciency (Montoya) with them going by those identities and turn them into aliases, for when things really go South with the MCU (falsely arresting Gordon could be the start of that).  Say Allen gets gun downed. Everyone assumes he's dead.  He's not but because Gotham turns most dedicated people a bit "funny", he starts being a vigilante called The Spectre.  Montoya, still on the Gotham Police force, but in disgrace, is helping him out, and disguising herself as well, as a character with a blank face (that's The Question).  They go all Proto-Batman on things.

 

It could work.  There's even space in the middle to explore the fact that Montoya is supposed to be a pretty serious alcoholic somewhere in her career.  if she thinks Allen is dead at first, that's the door for that.

 

And Gordon winds up chasing these vigilantes (having no idea who they are). This not only mirrors Gordon's later interactions with Batman, but provides a new possible source of plots/conflict between our characters.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kromm

[Actionmage]

And here I thought that Selina becoming Batwoman and Bruce her Oracle would be pretty out of the box.

[MarkHB]

Don't even touch The Spectre if you're going to depower him; he's likely the only character in the DC pantheon more powerful than Superman.  Plus I think Jim Corrigan may be slated to show up on either Constantine or one of the CW shows.

 

The Question is intriguing, though.  I stopped collecting comics before Montoya took over the role, but I did read the entire Denny O'Neil run on the book (it actually had a "recommended reading" blurb in each issue with a book that had something to do with the story).  And I don't think that his/her no-face mask, or even the magic "color-changing clothes" gas, would be that hard to pull off given that we already saw something similar, Rorschach in Watchmen.

[Kromm]

Don't even touch The Spectre if you're going to depower him; he's likely the only character in the DC pantheon more powerful than Superman.  Plus I think Jim Corrigan may be slated to show up on either Constantine or one of the CW shows.

Why would that last bit matter?  While in general I think they're trying to corral separate characters sets for each DC live action "universe", I don't think there's any official rule.

As for The Spectre's power level?  Personally I think it's less important than the fact that he's kind of relentless and bloodthirsty.  You don't need superpowers to be that.

[MarkHB]

Why would that last bit matter?  While in general I think they're trying to corral separate characters sets for each DC live action "universe", I don't think there's any official rule.

As for The Spectre's power level?  Personally I think it's less important than the fact that he's kind of relentless and bloodthirsty.  You don't need superpowers to be that.

 

I've had coffee now and can see your idea more clearly.  Still, I think I'd look forward more to seeing the "real" Spectre on one of the other shows than to seeing the name used for a murderous vigilante here.  For those who don't know, at at least one point the Spectre has been said to be nothing less than the Wrath of God made incarnate (or at least anthropomorphized).  Raining fire on Sodom and Gomorrah?  Yeah, he did that.  Turning on the faucets for Noah's Flood?  Yep, him again.  One origin story took the theology so far as to say he was banished from the Earth at the time of the Nativity, as having both Divine Wrath and Forgiveness on the earth together at the same time was inappropriate.

[Kromm]

I've had coffee now and can see your idea more clearly.  Still, I think I'd look forward more to seeing the "real" Spectre on one of the other shows than to seeing the name used for a murderous vigilante here.  For those who don't know, at at least one point the Spectre has been said to be nothing less than the Wrath of God made incarnate (or at least anthropomorphized).  Raining fire on Sodom and Gomorrah?  Yeah, he did that.  Turning on the faucets for Noah's Flood?  Yep, him again.  One origin story took the theology so far as to say he was banished from the Earth at the time of the Nativity, as having both Divine Wrath and Forgiveness on the earth together at the same time was inappropriate.

Hmm.  You could go a slightly different route.  Have The Spectre be an urban legend that Allen hears about and emulates and borrows the name of.  That give the nod to the DC use of him as that character, without having to burst the bubble on any "real" Spectre out there (not that there's any evidence of the Supernatural existing at all in the Gotham-verse, but if it protects any cross franchise use, then so be it--Allen himself already invokes that tie just by existing on this show).  

 

Whether or not Montoya has to be the first or second Question is totally separate.  The main reason I thought originally it would be a good idea for them to swap places with the other incarnations, was to justify the temporal displacement of these characters. If we don't bother?  Then sure.  Have some even earlier people named Jim Corrigan and Vic Sage back in Gotham's even more distant past.

[jbrecken]

They reveal that the Oswald Cobblepot we've been following isn't the Penguin, but the Penguin's father, and they go with the hideous sewer mutant version.

[Miss Dee]

Poster John Potts had a theory on the Penguin thread that his identity is misdirection and he's actually a proto-Joker. I like that one myself. It always frustrates me when shows based on comics don't take the opportunity to tweak viewer expectations and play with some of the identities and back stories. (Bitter ex-Chlois subscriber talking there....)

[Kromm]

Poster John Potts had a theory on the Penguin thread that his identity is misdirection and he's actually a proto-Joker. I like that one myself. It always frustrates me when shows based on comics don't take the opportunity to tweak viewer expectations and play with some of the identities and back stories. (Bitter ex-Chlois subscriber talking there....)

Different strokes, I guess.  I often find it too manipulative when shows identity swap. The huge exception being when an actor doesn't work out (Arrow viewer who hates Laurel, because the actress sucks, talking there...)

[DigitalCount]

Reveal that Jimmy Olsen's name is actually Henry James Olsen, and that his y--oh, wait. That's old hat.

 

I think female Joker is the way to go.

[Perfect Xero]

I said it in her own thread, but it's worth repeating here: Fish Mooney as a female Joker. The more I've thought about it since coming up with the theory, the more plausible it seems that they deliberately created a character who would be insanely obvious as the future Joker if they were a man, but since she's a woman people wouldn't consider it.

 

What makes her obvious as the future Joker? I haven't really noticed anything. She's doesn't really seem to try to be funny, she's not a genius with chemicals, she doesn't seem to be the type to go out and get her own hands dirty.

[MarkHB]

Bullock gets elected Mayor.

[MisterGlass]

Can't wait to see that campaign speech.

[Actionmage]

Bruce dies and never becomes Batman, but maybe Jim does?  Bullock cleans up for a stretch and runs a most, but then relapses, so Jim comes back, is appointed Captain/ Commissioner, and some unknown, equally broken person takes up the mantle? 

 

I don't have a problem with the current Young Bruce, by the by.

[Dobian]

A musical number. Always a musical number.

 

Hell, a musical episode.

They'd never be able to top Buffy's musical episode, though they could try.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

They'd never be able to top Buffy's musical episode, though they could try.

Let alone Xena's.

[Camera One]

Bruce dies and never becomes Batman, but maybe Jim does?

 

To continue off of that, Bruce dies and Selina Kyle takes his place at the Wayne Manor, and continues what he started and she ultimately becomes Batman.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Camera One

[Danny Franks]

The man who killed the Waynes was... Alfred Pennyworth. 

 

He wanted the Waynes' lavish lifestyle for himself, and knew that killing them would leave him in sole charge of the boy heir, with full access to everything the Waynes had. So he gets to live a life of luxury while Bruce is growing up, and Bruce, none the wiser, comes to love the old family servant like a father, giving him more leeway than Thomas and Martha ever did.

[Kromm]

To continue off of that, Bruce dies and Selina Kyle takes his place at the Wayne Manor, and continues what he started and she ultimately becomes Batman.

Heh.  I'm glad I put in the caveat "Wild, but actually credible" in Post #1. I'm wondering what we'd be getting otherwise!!!

The man who killed the Waynes was... Alfred Pennyworth. 

 

He wanted the Waynes' lavish lifestyle for himself, and knew that killing them would leave him in sole charge of the boy heir, with full access to everything the Waynes had. So he gets to live a life of luxury while Bruce is growing up, and Bruce, none the wiser, comes to love the old family servant like a father, giving him more leeway than Thomas and Martha ever did.

Like my idea with Bullock, I can actually see this as possible, if a stretch.  I mean it wouldn't actually contradict anything major in Batman lore--it could simply be argued that Alfred was never found out in other versions, but WAS in this one.

Well I mean the versions like this where Alfred raised Bruce.  Remember in a lot of them he didn't.

[MarkHB]

1. Introduce Jack Ryder, aka The Creeper.

Nifty Easter egg: we find out that Barbara has a fashion model sister named Katy.

After the end of S1, Barbara goes off to Arkham for a good long time (few seasons?)  When she is released, she no longer wants to use her surname since it reminds her of the parents she killed, so she goes with her middle name or the name of a beloved grandmother and becomes Barbara Minerva.

[Perfect Xero]

Jim, or one of his relatives, (the uncle who showed up recently?) is Selina's parent, she ends up in the Barbara Gordon role by the end of the series.

[paigow]

On 11/22/2014 at 4:18 PM, Camera One said:

 

To continue off of that, Bruce dies and Selina Kyle takes his place at the Wayne Manor, and continues what he started and she ultimately becomes Batman.

So she splits her time as: Wayne Enterprises CEO; Batman; AND Catwoman???

Edited March 6, 2017 by paigow

[Kathemy]

The most shocking thing I think has an actual slim chance of happening would be them killing off Bruce Wayne and have the clone, AKA Thomas Wayne Jr permanently take his place.

[Danielg342]

15 hours ago, Kathemy said:

The most shocking thing I think has an actual slim chance of happening would be them killing off Bruce Wayne and have the clone, AKA Thomas Wayne Jr permanently take his place.

Good point and I could probably agree. I'm not sure it would be enough to put Bruce believably in peril in future episodes but it does mean that the only person who has a 100℅ survival rate is Jim Gordon- everyone else you might be able to make a case where what they are now will not be what they become.