Beth: You're going to miss me when I'm gone...

[GreyBunny]

The scene I'd like to see:

Beth:  *goofy attempt at seductive eyes*

Daryl:  I'm gay.

Beth:  *cries*shoots self*

 

~fin~

[CletusMusashi]

I think you're giving them to much credit.

Beth: Puppies

Daryl: Um

Beth: Unicorns

Daryl: Ergh

Beth: Rainbows

Daryl: Uh, what....

So, basically, they're Harmony and Spike.

[Emily Thrace]

I guess that's what I'm saying.  Male characters are annoying when some layer of their full characterization is annoying.  Female characters are more likely annoying in their stereotypical and even assumed characteristics.  How is Beth a birdbrain? Because she looks like one?  Because she sings? I found it simply awful, but her friends at the prison seemed to be enjoying it!  It's not really a feminist critique, just an acknowledgment that these writers seem to have a less sure hand at making females multidimensional.  I don't think it's misogynistic or anything sinister like that. Just a weakness, and perhaps only a perceived one...perceived by me.....

 

I'm really not even arguing that her portrayal has been anything more than empty, but that's what she's been given so far.  We really haven't known much about her at all, except as a space-filler---the naive, sweet, innocent.  That's it. We started to see something else when she didn't bat an eye at her boyfriend's death.  And we saw a little more with Daryl.  I'm just reserving judgment until she's a bit more fleshed out. No pun intended.

I have to say I agree with a lot of this I think a lot of Caryl fan's simply pissed she a threat frankly. I also think in general fandom tends to be harsh when it comes to pretty young blonds. Its not just a Walking Dead thing Jericho's lead had simialr issues and even some the comment thrown Andrea's way sound familar. I think to some on the internet "pretty blond" equals popular girl who was mean to me in high school. I've lost count of the times I've heard Beth called "cheerleader" or even easy which are both ridiculous. What interesting is I could copy and paste those comments into posts made about similar looking character on entirely differnt shows.  There is a sociology paper in there somewhere.

 

The age thing is the most glaring example, nowhere has it been indicated that Daryl's relationship to either women has thing to do with their age but yet fandom has made it in to a huge issue.  If Daryl choses Beth  I think it would be in spite of her age not because of it. I think it more than anything its a matter of Daryl chosing hope and light over cynicism and darkness. Beth gave Daryl hope and he doesn't want to let that go. That's what I like about Daryl and Beth its not just one person grabbing on to a life preserver, its two people who need each other and helped each other through the dark trying to get to something good. There are valid character reason's for Daryl to want to be with Beth and not Carol. Afterall if we're are really being feminist niether woman's age matters and is what's on the inside that counts and I think as far a Daryl is concerned Beth win's that hands down.

[Watcher0363]

I think you're giving them to much credit.

Beth: Puppies

Daryl: Um

Beth: Unicorns

Daryl: Ergh

Beth: Rainbows

Daryl: Uh, what....

For We Babylon 5 fans. That sounds like an ambassador Kosh restorative personality quiz. Poor Talia poor Daryl. Poor Beth? Poor someone.

[NoWillToResist]

I think for me it's that Beth is less a character and more of a...symbol? The young, innocent, sweet, hopeful dreamer. And that can be refreshing in a world that's so full of darkness, death and pain. But I think the show hasn't really done anything with her beyond that labelling. Perhaps that will change. Beth sings, watches the baby and...well, that's about it. I think the only moment that really made me go "oh really? Interesting!" was when she kind of dismissed the death of her boyfriend. That was an interesting blip of character (to me).

 

Granted, many characters weren't given much to work with for a while either, so time will tell whether TPTB can give me a reason to CONNECT to Beth as a character and whether Emily can pull me in. So far, neither has happened but things can change.

 

 

The age thing is the most glaring example, nowhere has it been indicated that Daryl's relationship to either women has thing to do with their age but yet fandom has made it in to a huge issue.  If Daryl choses Beth  I think it would be in spite of her age not because of it

 

In an apocalypse, norms/standards can be...fluid...but I find myself unable to get on board with the Daryl/Beth pairing when I hear that the age thing doesn't matter because they are both at about the same 'emotional/maturity level'. That's...not a good thing, IMO. If a 30/40 year old man is so emotionally stunted/damaged that he's developmentally at the same level as a 17(?) year old girl, that girl should be looking elsewhere for her romantic prospects, IMO. That said, I appreciate that one's prospects are rather limited in the ZA. :D

 

If people see chemistry, that's fine because that is so subjective anyway, but just on paper, Beth/Daryl as a romance just does not compute for me.

 

 

I also think in general fandom tends to be harsh when it comes to pretty young blonds

 

I think it could be partly societal (?) frustration with the older man/young woman stereotype. Like, oh what a shock, the main dude wants the pretty, young (blonde) girl; it would be refreshing to see something DIFFERENT for a change. I feel this is made even more glaring since, as I said up at the top, I don't feel that Beth really has much characterization. So to pair her with arguably the most popular male character will likely cause blowback.

Edited October 22, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[maplebrew]

If the Beth storyline is going to continue, she needs intensive character and storyline development in her own right. It would be a snore if she were merely Daryl's damsel in distress/soon to be GF. 

[kikismom]

I think an off-screen reason not to pair Beth with Daryl is that she flattens any acting mojo he has; but she does that to Maggie/Laurie Cohen and other people in a scene with her.

One of her first real scenes on the show was with Lori in the bedroom, when the subject of Lori's pregnancy came up and EK made her first impression with that nasal whine "Hayow cud yeeuuu deeuu thayut?"

I thought 'where the hell did they find her?"

[Watcher0363]

EK my goal for you is to get you on the Maxim Hot 100 for 2015. Lauren Cohan was 41 for 2014. I think we can get you into the top 75. Help me help you, do a women of the Walking Dead photo shoot. Do a solo Maxim shoot. Try for a Vogue cover you have the fair skin, the blonde hair, the rocking slim body. We can make you a Maxim Hot 100 woman. #emilykinneyforhot100. Voting starts in December. Vote like you are a Chicagoan, that means vote often

Edited October 24, 2014 by Watcher0363

[JBody]

^^^wtf? Herm, ok. I am surprised that Beth has made this far. After her whiny suicide attempt in S2 I thought she was a goner. I think we're going to see some interesting stuff in the upcoming episodes and I welcome that. She became less of a cardboard cut out during Still etc and I can't wait to see what happens.

[kikismom]

EK my goal for you is to get you on the Maxim Hot 100 for 2015. Lauren Cohan was 41 for 2014. I think we can get you into the top 75. Help me help you, do a women of the Walking Dead photo shoot. Do a solo Maxim shoot. Try for a Vogue cover you have the fair skin, the blonde hair, the rocking slim body. We can make you a Maxim Hot 100 woman. #emilykinneyforhot100. Voting starts in December. Vote like you are a Chicagoan, that means vote often

In other news:

I am trying to get Lawrence Gilliard on the cover of Men's Health : How Bob Lost 12 Pounds In One Hour--Using Only Carelessness And Chloroform!"

[mightysparrow]

I have to say I agree with a lot of this I think a lot of Caryl fan's simply pissed she a threat frankly. I also think in general fandom tends to be harsh when it comes to pretty young blonds. Its not just a Walking Dead thing Jericho's lead had simialr issues and even some the comment thrown Andrea's way sound familar. I think to some on the internet "pretty blond" equals popular girl who was mean to me in high school. I've lost count of the times I've heard Beth called "cheerleader" or even easy which are both ridiculous. What interesting is I could copy and paste those comments into posts made about similar looking character on entirely differnt shows.  There is a sociology paper in there somewhere.

 

The age thing is the most glaring example, nowhere has it been indicated that Daryl's relationship to either women has thing to do with their age but yet fandom has made it in to a huge issue.  If Daryl choses Beth  I think it would be in spite of her age not because of it. I think it more than anything its a matter of Daryl chosing hope and light over cynicism and darkness. Beth gave Daryl hope and he doesn't want to let that go. That's what I like about Daryl and Beth its not just one person grabbing on to a life preserver, its two people who need each other and helped each other through the dark trying to get to something good. There are valid character reason's for Daryl to want to be with Beth and not Carol. Afterall if we're are really being feminist niether woman's age matters and is what's on the inside that counts and I think as far a Daryl is concerned Beth win's that hands down.

 

But when has Daryl expressed the desire to be with EITHER Beth or Carol?  In an interview, MMB said that Caryl is basically fan created and I would say the same about Bethyl.  In four seasons, there has been nothing that indicated that Daryl felt anything more for Carol than much loved friend.  And nothing in 'Still' or 'Alone' indicated that Daryl felt anything romantic towards Beth.  Daryl never expressed any desire to search for Beth until the moment he saw a car similar to the one that took her.  His reaction to follow the car was natural but stupid since he should have sent Carol back to the group to tell them where he went. To have Daryl searching for Beth with Carol instead of her SISTER is absurd.

 

I think this whole Caryl/Bethyl fan war has harmed the show.  It's obvious that scripts are being written to pander to specific fanbases and that's never a good thing.   I also think the whole 'Is Daryl gay?' debate that started this summer was a way for tptb to extricate the show from a situation that they didn't think would get so out of control.

[ghoulina]

I kind of agree with you, mightysparrow. Personally, I didn't get any romantic-sexual vibes from Beth or Daryl in those episodes. I kind of hate the notion that if a male and a female get close, it means they want to bang or are falling in love. Can't they just be good friends? And I get that best friend vibe most of the time from Carol and Daryl as well. The only reason I have ever talked relationship between them is because of the little flirting here and there - "I'll go down first", "Even better". Calling him Pookie and saying she liked him first. I've never flirted like that with my close male friends, but that's as far as it's gone with them....so it doesn't necessarily mean there's more. 

[GodsBeloved]

And I get that best friend vibe most of the time from Carol and Daryl as well. The only reason I have ever talked relationship between them is because of the little flirting here and there - "I'll go down first", "Even better". Calling him Pookie and saying she liked him first. I've never flirted like that with my close male friends, but that's as far as it's gone with them....so it doesn't necessarily mean there's more. 

Plus its always came from Carol. I don't recall Darryl "flirting" back. I actually didn't care for Carol's actions there. She came off as desperate to me and maybe its because I never got the feeling Darryl was comfortable with it and never seemed to return the flirting.

Edited October 24, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[mightysparrow]

Plus its always come from Carol. I don't recall Darry "flirting" back. I actually didn't care for Carol's actions there. She came off as desperate to me and maybe its because I never got the feeling Darryl was comfortable with it and never seemed to return the flirting.

 

I've seen it as borderline harassment.  If the sexes were reversed and a man was making repeated sexual comments to a woman and the woman was obviously embarrassed by it, the outrage would be off the hook.  Cries of 'rape culture' would fill the air.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I didn't get any romantic-sexual vibes from Beth or Daryl in those episodes. I kind of hate the notion that if a male and a female get close, it means they want to bang or are falling in love. Can't they just be good friends? And I get that best friend vibe most of the time from Carol and Daryl as well.

 

I don't think Daryl's given any romantic/sexual cues towards either woman either. Him offering to piggyback Beth read as big bro/little sis to me but many apparently read it as romantic. Beth instigated the hand holding and embrace from behind in their bottle eps last season (IIRC). Daryl has initiated a shoulder rub and a hug with Carol and both of those can be read outside the realm of romance.

 

 

Daryl never expressed any desire to search for Beth until the moment he saw a car similar to the one that took her.  His reaction to follow the car was natural but stupid since he should have sent Carol back to the group to tell them where he went. To have Daryl searching for Beth with Carol instead of her SISTER is absurd.

 

Well, in all fairness to Daryl, where would he even start looking for Beth when she was taken days ago BY CAR? The car he just saw with the cross is an amazing and TIME SENSITIVE lead. He has to jump into 'his' car and make chase immediately if there's any hope of finding where Beth was taken. He could have directed Carol to run back and tell Maggie that he was following a lead but there was no time to go and get Maggie to join him. I'm glad that Carol was there and that he took her with him because a solo rescue mission would likely be very dangerous.

 

I'm hoping that Beth begins to exist outside of her relation/friendship with Daryl.I agree with those who felt that she was a non-entity until the whole "Bethyl" thing started up and that's sad to me. No character should be defined by their romantic partner (which is also why I feel bad for Norman. He plays a wonderfully nuanced, complex character and nowadays, all he gets asked is "Carol or Beth"? Ugh).

 

Hopefully whatever Beth's been dealing with off-screen is interesting enough to raise her beyond "will she and Daryl hook up?"

[JBody]

I can't agree that Bethyl is 100% fan created, when you have EPs like Nicotero saying stuff like this at the San Diego Comic Con:

"You know, I wonder how much the writers pay attention to that becuase I of course am inundated with it," Reedus said. "I wonder what the behind-the-scenes brains of the operation..."

"I don't think it really does," interrupted Executive Producer Greg Nicotero. "When they pitched season four and they were talking about the prison goes down and everything and having Daryl and Beth be partnered together...it's interesting, I get to see all the cuts. I see all the edits from the director's cut onward and I loved the scene you did in the kitchen when the two of them are talking and I got the sense that Daryl was starting to fall in love with Beth a little bit."

 

You know a lot of rabid fans ran with it of course but TPTB aren't without shit stirring tendencies here, I think.

And I do agree the timing of the "Daryl is 'prison gay" topic is suspicious, to say the least.  I think NR is *really* sick of it.

Edited October 24, 2014 by JBody

[AngelaHunter]

And I do agree the timing of the "Daryl is 'prison gay" topic is suspicious, to say the least.  I think NR is *really* sick of it.

 

As am I.

[mightysparrow]

I can't agree that Bethyl is 100% fan created, when you have EPs like Nicotero saying stuff like this at the San Diego Comic Con:

You know a lot of rabid fans ran with it of course but TPTB aren't without shit stirring tendencies here, I think.

And I do agree the timing of the "Daryl is 'prison gay" topic is suspicious, to say the least.  I think NR is *really* sick of it.

 

I can imagine that Reedus must have wanted to kill Nicotero at that moment.  That was his opinion but he had to have known that there were Bethyl fans out there that would use what he said to build a whole Romeo and Juliet story for Daryl and Beth.  Which they did.

 

As am I.

 

You said a mouthful there.

[ghoulina]

Plus its always came from Carol. I don't recall Darryl "flirting" back. I actually didn't care for Carol's actions there. She came off as desperate to me and maybe its because I never got the feeling Darryl was comfortable with it and never seemed to return the flirting.

 

Eh, I think he was uncomfortable with it in a way that he would be uncomfortable with flattery, compliments, and closeness from anyone. Daryl just seems very socially awkward. But I think if he genuinely didn't like her gentle flirting he'd distance himself from her - and he hasn't. Before the "I'll go down first" - "Even better" exchange, he had been giving her a neck massage. Again, that's doesn't mean they're lovers, but that is a pretty intimate gesture. 

[NoWillToResist]

 

I got the sense that Daryl was starting to fall in love with Beth a little bit.

 

In all fairness, I can see that in a different context. I've often heard a comment like this used when a character is softening towards another character or finding an appreciation for them in a way they hadn't before. I find that bears out in what we saw with Daryl and Beth. I'm not sure he said two words to her before the prison went down. But she stuck with him, pulled him out of his funk and gave him hope again. And he can totally love her for that. Doesn't mean that he wants to be WITH her, IMO.

[Ocean Chick]

Yes, there's all sorts of types of love.  Sexual love (lust).  Romantic love (Maggie and Glenn).  Familial love (Sasha and Tyreese).  Brotherly love (Rick and Daryl!)  I think what Daryl felt for Beth was the familial love.  He's not wanting to throw her up against a tree in the moonlight.

[Emily Thrace]

I can imagine that Reedus must have wanted to kill Nicotero at that moment.  That was his opinion but he had to have known that there were Bethyl fans out there that would use what he said to build a whole Romeo and Juliet story for Daryl and Beth.  Which they did.

Ha! NR was shit stirrer in chief at SDCC. He and EK spent most the Q&A and autographs afterwards all over each other. It was a fairly obvious show for the cameras clearly designed to get as many retweets and hits as possible. it gave ammunition to both sides of the shipper war for weeks.  Considering how many personal attacks and how many times he gets asked about this I don't really blame him if he's tired of it, but he not entirely blame less either.

 

I think this whole Caryl/Bethyl fan war has harmed the show.  It's obvious that scripts are being written to pander to specific fanbases and that's never a good thing.   I also think the whole 'Is Daryl gay?' debate that started this summer was a way for tptb to extricate the show from a situation that they didn't think would get so out of control.

I think shippers wars are just an inevitable part of fandom. Like bad weather they can't really be avoided they just have to be endured. I think whoever Daryl hooked up it would have caused trouble. His character has gotten too big not to. Like if they had gone with DIchonne it still would been most of the same fights just with bonus racism. 

 

Hopefully whatever Beth's been dealing with off-screen is interesting enough to raise her beyond "will she and Daryl hook up?

I think she already has done that for a lot of people. Most of beth fans are young girls who more like Beth theselves or people who like more passive optimistic characters generally. If Beth sudden popularity were just about Daryl than Carol would have the same boost a while ago. While I certianly think soe of Carol's popularity is due to her proximity to Daryl she hasn't had the same buzz Beth has been generating. Beth was the number one trending topic on twiiter recently and she huge over on tumblr and FF.net and a lot of other places.

 

But when has Daryl expressed the desire to be with EITHER Beth or Carol?  In an interview, MMB said that Caryl is basically fan created and I would say the same about Bethyl.  In four seasons, there has been nothing that indicated that Daryl felt anything more for Carol than much loved friend.  And nothing in 'Still' or 'Alone' indicated that Daryl felt anything romantic towards Beth.  Daryl never expressed any desire to search for Beth until the moment he saw a car similar to the one that took her

Something that was pointed out elsewhere is that there are actually several little touches that Daryl inittiates in a addition to the piggyback. Little things like touching her wrist when he's wrapping her elbow bumping her with his elbow in the kitchen and of course carrying her into the kitchen. None of these were neccessary but Daryl still reached out. That's really not brotherly behaviour and it is a common indicator of attraction. (I also realize that I actually remebered this means Iclearly have spent to much time on tumblr)

 

Eh, I think he was uncomfortable with it in a way that he would be uncomfortable with flattery, compliments, and closeness from anyone. Daryl just seems very socially awkward.

 

That's actually what I liked about his interactions with Beth. There was an ease there in Alone that I really don't think we had seen before. He was still a bit awkward but he more open and free than he had been before. I think after what they shared in Still Daryl feels like he can be himself around Beth and she won't judge him. I think that's why he pulls back with the others. That if they really knew where he came from they wouldn't see him the same way. Beth saw what Daryl was and didn't care. Even more she respects and even admires him for what he is now.  That's huge for someone like Daryl.

[kikismom]

Something that was pointed out elsewhere is that there are actually several little touches that Daryl inittiates in a addition to the piggyback. Little things like touching her wrist when he's wrapping her elbow bumping her with his elbow in the kitchen and of course carrying her into the kitchen.

Yes, except I'm still wondering why they put the line in where Daryl--during the piggyback-- says to Beth "You're heavier than I thought you would be."

Trust me, that is not the way to come on to a woman. Of any age. Of any weight.

Either he was being a big brother or he has the worst game since the immortal line :  "For a fat girl you don't sweat much."

[NoWillToResist]

 

That's actually what I liked about his interactions with Beth. There was an ease there in Alone that I really don't think we had seen before. He was still a bit awkward but he more open and free than he had been before. I think after what they shared in Still Daryl feels like he can be himself around Beth and she won't judge him

 

I may well be proven wrong in the future, but I can't help but think that Beth and Carl are on similar footing where Daryl is concerned (nice, young kids who deserve better than the shitstorm they've inherited).

 

I may be way off on this, but I think Daryl's awkwardness would *increase* if he's starting to have romantic feelings for someone since I doubt that's a thing that's happened before and IMO he'd flounder. If they're just buddies or generally close, once he's past his initial general awkwardness, he'd be fine with them (see Rick, Carl, Carol, Michonne...) At least, that's how I saw the development of his closeness with Beth. He didn't know her from Adam when they were lost together, hence the default gruffness and attitude. During their isolation, they got to know each other better, found a rhythm, and he came to like her and care about her, just like he's done with others in the group.

[kikismom]

I may well be proven wrong in the future, but I can't help but think that Beth and Carl are on similar footing where Daryl is concerned (nice, young kids who deserve better than the shitstorm they've inherited).

 

I may be way off on this, but I think Daryl's awkwardness would *increase* if he's starting to have romantic feelings for someone since I doubt that's a thing that's happened before and IMO he'd flounder. If they're just buddies or generally close, once he's past his initial general awkwardness, he'd be fine with them (see Rick, Carl, Carol, Michonne...) At least, that's how I saw the development of his closeness with Beth. He didn't know her from Adam when they were lost together, hence the default gruffness and attitude. During their isolation, they got to know each other better, found a rhythm, and he came to like her and care about her, just like he's done with others in the group.

Excellent post, great insight about "increasing" awkwardness.

[RedheadZombie]

Beth was the number one trending topic on twiiter recently and she huge over on tumblr and FF.net and a lot of other places.

 

 

Thanks for the tip on what sites to avoid.  Lol.

[NoWillToResist]

 

If Beth sudden popularity were just about Daryl than Carol would have the same boost a while ago. While I certianly think soe of Carol's popularity is due to her proximity to Daryl she hasn't had the same buzz Beth has been generating.

 

I guess my question would be: what's causing the sudden interest in Beth? I can't think of anything particularly interesting that's come up except her stuff with Daryl. She literally had nothing interesting going on before the fall of the prison and she's been off-screen since then. So unless social media is utterly obsessed with what Beth is up to off-screen, I can only assume that the interest centres around the 2 (?) episodes in which she was with Daryl and speculation about their relationship.

 

In contrast, since you brought her up, Carol had, and has, LOTS of non-Daryl stuff going on. There was her abusive husband, her missing daughter, her issues with the leadership of the group, her interactions with many other characters, her involvement with all sorts of stuff at the prison, the Karen/David thing, the issue of her banishment, the whole Lizzie/Mika thing, her uneasy relationship with Tyrese, her tentative reunion with Rick...Carol has many irons in the fire; Beth? Not so much.

 

That's why I'm hoping whatever the situation she's in off-screen is interesting in its own right in relation to her, rather than a plot device for "Daryl saves Beth" since, once again, it just means that Beth has no purpose or story outside of Daryl...and I think that sucks.

[AngelaHunter]

Daryl--during the piggyback-- says to Beth "You're heavier than I thought you would be."

 

I thought it was "You're heavier than you look", but no matter. Ah, Daryl, you silver tongued devil, you!

[kikismom]

I thought it was "You're heavier than you look", but no matter. Ah, Daryl, you silver tongued devil, you!

You're right. And it's still awful. I'd punch him.

[Happy Harpy]

(Disclaimer: I'm a newbie and I only watched casually a handful of S3-B episodes, and more regularly S4. So there must be a looot that I missed.)

 

 

I guess my question would be: what's causing the sudden interest in Beth? I can't think of anything particularly interesting that's come up except her stuff with Daryl.

And indeed, that's kind of why the character is one I'm interested in. I have an inkling that I wouldn't have liked Beth or Daryl if I had watched from the start, but I liked how they interacted with each other when I caught up.

Beth isn't the kickass/super smart/savvy female character (Dana Scully, Arya Stark, Felicity Smoak) that I usually favor. But she sounds quite real to me, and aware of her limitations. I don't have the feeling that the writing force-feeds me with how great she is on every level. She doesn't annoy me, she doesn't pretend to be more than she is and owes her stupid moves as far as I saw. She isn't great, but she tries, and she has a sense of responsibility (getting the kids on the bus). She is a normal 18-something girl, with qualities and flaws that seem coherent to me, per her upbringing and her current situation. Not the smartest girl in the room, but not the dumbest either, imo.

As for her relationship with Daryl, I have the feeling that emotionally, they're in the same place. When they got closer, Daryl looked imo as a teenage boy who finally made friends with a girl. I'm aware he's way older than she is, but weirdly she seemed more mature in the way she dealt with his "confession" (that she made him believe there are good people) whereas he looked like a little boy who didn't have the words to say how he felt. The remote possibility that it could evolve into more came to my mind then -it hadn't before. I don't know if Daryl is truly mature enough to be in a romantic relationship -beyond perfunctory sex, I mean. One thing is for sure, I don't think their relationship defines Beth in any way, no more than it defines Daryl. I have the feeling that their interaction was more of a catalyst for each character, on their respective path.

(Do I have to say here that I like Carol very much, and her relationship with Daryl, too...even though I don't see it as romantic for now, either?).

Edited October 25, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

And it's still awful. I'd punch him.

 

I have a feeling that the women he's been around don't get easily offended...heh...

 

ETA: About Beth, I wanted to say that I never really noticed her before, but now that I think about her, I feel bad for her. All the others are mostly older than she. They've had things like boyfriends, dinners out, romance, flirting, love affairs, maybe proposals, bridal showers, weddings, babies and so much hope for the future. Beth will never have any of that as she should have. It's sad.

Edited October 25, 2014 by AngelaHunter

[NoWillToResist]

 

now that I think about her, I feel bad for her. All the others are mostly older than she. They've had things like boyfriends, dinners out, romance, flirting, love affairs, maybe proposals, bridal showers, weddings, babies and so much hope for the future. Beth will never have any of that as she should have. It's sad.

 

Also, her mother was walkerized and then shot in front of them all at the farm, her cousin (?) died at the farm, her aunt (?) was ripped away from her and eaten by walkers, her boyfriend died at the prison, and her father was beheaded in front of her. She's experienced a lot of horrendous loss for one so young. Unless my math is off, of all the people who were at the farm when our gang arrived, only Beth and Maggie are still around. And hell, technically Beth is gone too (though I suspect that'll change shortly).

 

I'd like to see more scenes of the ladies together, just chatting and bonding. We saw a glimpse of that way back at the quarry in...S1? I'd love to have a scene with Michonne, Carol, Beth, Maggie and Tara all just chatting about their lives pre-ZA and how different they are now etc. I want some women bonding time dammit!

[Watcher0363]

You're right. And it's still awful. I'd punch him.

What guy has not commented on the weight of his girlfriend or wife when giving them a piggyback ride. It just what you do affectionately.

[kikismom]

But she wasn't his wife or girlfriend! :-)  and she ain't gonna be if that's his opening line!

[kikismom]

I'd like to see more scenes of the ladies together, just chatting and bonding. We saw a glimpse of that way back at the quarry in...S1? I'd love to have a scene with Michonne, Carol, Beth, Maggie and Tara all just chatting about their lives pre-ZA and how different they are now etc. I want some women bonding time dammit!

I think the normal thing would be for these women to have a moment now and then to talk with each other about how things are going. I wonder if because it is a guy-created story from a predominately male comics-fan origin, they are uncomfortable with that? or just think that if a woman is not being spoken to by a man, it's not important?

    I do remember an interview on the set of ER back in the day. The ladies were waiting between shooting scenes on a gurney on the set. They saw the male actors, and Juliana Margulies said to the reporter how men always get paranoid when they see women talking just together. They always want to know what the women are discussing as if the revolution is being planned.

She had just finished saying that when the guys came up and said : "What are you girls talking about?"

[SoSueMe]

I think the normal thing would be for these women to have a moment now and then to talk with each other about how things are going. I wonder if because it is a guy-created story from a predominately male comics-fan origin, they are uncomfortable with that? or just think that if a woman is not being spoken to by a man, it's not important?

    I do remember an interview on the set of ER back in the day. The ladies were waiting between shooting scenes on a gurney on the set. They saw the male actors, and Juliana Margulies said to the reporter how men always get paranoid when they see women talking just together. They always want to know what the women are discussing as if the revolution is being planned.

She had just finished saying that when the guys came up and said : "What are you girls talking about?"

That is hilarious, poor guys, insecure much?

[shanndee]

Ohhh, do you think we need to do a Bechdel Test for The Walking Dead? :)

 

And no, Bethie, I won't miss you when you are gone. Not in the teeniest, tiniest way.

[editorgrrl]

From the "Four Walls & a Roof" episode thread:

I'm not looking forward to a Beth-centric episode next week. And if they are keeping Father Gabriel, there really is no need for Beth anymore because he's the innocent teenage girl who hasn't learned to adapt to the ZA world.

[Emily Thrace]

I guess my question would be: what's causing the sudden interest in Beth? I can't think of anything particularly interesting that's come up except her stuff with Daryl. She literally had nothing interesting going on before the fall of the prison and she's been off-screen since then. So unless social media is utterly obsessed with what Beth is up to off-screen, I can only assume that the interest centres around the 2 (?) episodes in which she was with Daryl and speculation about their relationship.

 

That's why I'm hoping whatever the situation she's in off-screen is interesting in its own right in relation to her, rather than a plot device for "Daryl saves Beth" since, once again, it just means that Beth has no purpose or story outside of Daryl...and I think that sucks.

 

Except if you had actually bothered to speak to anyone who actually like Beth you'd know it's not really about Daryl. Still and Alone and even Ep12 gave Beth a chance to show who she is and give her a voice something she really hadn't done before. Even Beth's suicide attempt in season 2 was mostly about Andrea. Still and Alone gave people a chance to see Beth and a lot of people liked what they saw. I'm not niave I 'm sure being close to Daryl hasn't hurt Beth popularity I just know enough Beth fans to know that isn't even close to be the main reason people like her. (I also find it an amusingly hypocritcal response coming from a Carol fan since I doubt Carol was winning fans in season 2 and 3 solely due to her sparkling personality and vital importance to the plot.) Mostly I think people respond to Beth's hopeful outlook. I think a lot of people identify with the fact that she's not swaggering walker killing machine, since most people feel they wouldn't be in a ZA either.

 

I also don't think Beth is any danger of being defined by her relationship with Daryl. For one Beth actually has plenty of relationships with other character's the Grimes kids and Rick as an extension of that. She still Magie's sister even TPTB seem to have forgotten. She even was bonding with Michonne there for a minute before the prison fell. I would be interested to see her reaction to Tara.  I also think Beth is a naturally open friendly person she wouldn't ever really be in danger of not being to connected anyone but Daryl. I think that's part of what makes her important to the show its always good in an ensemble like this to have a character who can interact pausibly with a lot of characters. 

 

I'd like to see more scenes of the ladies together, just chatting and bonding. We saw a glimpse of that way back at the quarry in...S1? I'd love to have a scene with Michonne, Carol, Beth, Maggie and Tara all just chatting about their lives pre-ZA and how different they are now etc. I want some women bonding time dammit!

 

I would love this. Someone who I'd like to see Beth interact with again is Michonne. I just feel like they have similar tolerance for fools and completely different outlooks that would make their conversation hilairiious.

 

I have a feeling that the women he's been around don't get easily offended...heh...

Yeah I can easily buy Daryl being that clueless. Also EK has mentioned that was not actually in the script and was an ad-lib by NR.

 

ETA: About Beth, I wanted to say that I never really noticed her before, but now that I think about her, I feel bad for her. All the others are mostly older than she. They've had things like boyfriends, dinners out, romance, flirting, love affairs, maybe proposals, bridal showers, weddings, babies and so much hope for the future. Beth will never have any of that as she should have. It's sad.

That something I've always found interesting about her character she is going to have such a different perspective on everything than the other characters. I also think that's part of why she attached so strongly to Judith. Beth will never go to college or have a wedding with white roses and a fancy dress but a baby is still a dream she might get someday.

[mightysparrow]

I think we're going to find out how much we'll miss her very soon.

[Watcher0363]

I am so tempted to go spoiler hunting. To see what has and is going to happen to my beloved Beth.

[NoWillToResist]

 

She still Magie's sister even TPTB seem to have forgotten.

 

...right? My God, I cannot convey how frustrated I am by Maggie's lack of discussion about Beth. After the farm, Beth had her dad and her sister; then her dad was killed. If/when Beth returns to our gang, it will be to discover that her SOLE REMAINING RELATIVE - a SISTER no less, just left with her honeybunch and nary a thought or care for Beth's fate apparently. That fucking sucks.She has no blood relations left. And considering how big that group was on the farm? That's damned depressing...

 

 

I also think Beth is a naturally open friendly person she wouldn't ever really be in danger of not being to connected anyone but Daryl.

 

Beth is certainly sweet and open enough, no doubt. I just felt that her interactions in the last 2 seasons were basically Judith and Daryl.

 

Sadly, I think she and Bob would have got along great. :(

 

 

Except if you had actually bothered to speak to anyone who actually like Beth you'd know it's not really about Daryl

 

I mean no disrespect or sass when I say that I honestly have not met anyone (in real life) who watches the show and gives a shit about Beth (and I don't mean they hate her; she just hasn't made any impression on them). Beyond my social circle, the only discussion I see is here and most of what I've encountered has been negative or neutral. There are some voices here in support of her which is great but beyond "she's sweet", "she's nice", "she's resilient", "she's innocent and hopeful"...I haven't really encountered much of a reason to see her as a real person, if you will. I am desperately hoping that next week changes that. I want a reason to root for her, but I haven't felt like I've been given a reason to care about BETH rather than just what she represents (nice, innocent, sweet, optimistic).

 

She doesn't need to be Rambo but I'd like something more than "babysitter" and "sweet, ingenue", y'know? :)

 

 

I doubt Carol was winning fans in season 2 and 3 solely due to her sparkling personality and vital importance to the plot

 

Will reply in Carol's thread....

Edited October 28, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[kikismom]

...right? My God, I cannot convey how frustrated I am by Maggie's lack of discussion about Beth. After the farm, Beth had her dad and her sister; then her dad was killed. If/when Beth returns to our gang, it will be to discover that her SOLE REMAINING RELATIVE - a SISTER no less, just left

All the more irritating when we remember how pious she got at the farm when Glenn said "walkers" and she told him to stop using that word, then he asked what did she call them?;

"Mom! Shaun! Lacey!" etcetc.

 

So basically she had more sentimental attachment to rotting corpses than to Beth.

[bosawks]

So basically she had more sentimental attachment to rotting corpses than to Beth.

 

To be fair at least rotting corpses don't sing.........

[NoWillToResist]

Ouch. It's just so frustrating because I can appreciate and even sympathize with the notion that Maggie would have little to no hope of finding her sister again. She's not going to just magically turn up again, especially since they don't have a home base anymore. Beth was dragged off in a car a few days ago by strangers for good or for ill. But a little ATTENTION paid to Maggie's thoughts/feelings/emotional state would be appreciated. Instead, we've got Maggie super fine to wander off with virtual strangers to D.C.; as long as her honeybear is with her, everything's super awesome. Ugh.

[AngelaHunter]

She doesn't need to be Rambo but I'd like something more than "babysitter" and "sweet, ingenue", y'know? :)

 

Well, she did cut her wrist and have a kind of mental breakdown on the farm, so maybe she does think about things other than rainbows and unicorns! Heh...

[GreyBunny]

I doubt Carol was winning fans in season 2 and 3 solely due to her sparkling personality and vital importance to the plot

 

She annoyed in season 2 but in season 3 she won me over.  

 

I mean no disrespect or sass when I say that I honestly have not met anyone (in real life) who watches the show and gives a shit about Beth (and I don't mean they hate her; she just hasn't made any impression on them). Beyond my social circle, the only discussion I see is here and most of what I've encountered has been negative or neutral.

 

This.  I like the idea of Beth but EK is such a lousy actress that there is no there there for Beth.   She was decent as a space filler and a babysitter and I liked seeing her bust out a gun and shoot alongside her sister at the prison, but pushing her into a lead character position was a mistake.  At this point if she dies it'll be a mercy kill for a character that failed to launch.  

[natyxg]

Ouch. It's just so frustrating because I can appreciate and even sympathize with the notion that Maggie would have little to no hope of finding her sister again. She's not going to just magically turn up again, especially since they don't have a home base anymore. Beth was dragged off in a car a few days ago by strangers for good or for ill. But a little ATTENTION paid to Maggie's thoughts/feelings/emotional state would be appreciated. Instead, we've got Maggie super fine to wander off with virtual strangers to D.C.; as long as her honeybear is with her, everything's super awesome. Ugh.

 

THIS.

 

There are many reactions that Maggie could have, but they have to show them. Even a seemingly non-reaction would have been a reaction. Like if Glenn tries to comfort her and she seems over it, it could show that she is exhausted and numb and doesn't want to think about it anymore because not knowing is in a way worse than knowing that she died. Someone could be torturing beth or something at the moment, and they can't help her. That's awful. That's just an example, there could've been other reactions. But it's too big of an oversight not to address it at all. Maybe it was written and it was cut in the editing room.

 

Regarding Beth, I like her just fine, I don't get the hate. I'll be shallow and say that I don't want her to die because she's a cutie (same goes for Tara), but she hasn't done anything that makes me sick of her or like I would be happy if she dies.

 

So I hope she makes it out of wherever she is in one piece and is reunited with her group. It's sad that she will never get to have a real grown up life, and it would be even sadder if she doesn't get to have one at all.  So I hope she does.

[Disraeli Ears]

Tonight's Beth episode reminded me that i don't hate her; she just hasn't really been a character that has had much development and I don't care about her at this point.

Combine that with EK's mediocre acting and all the annoying Beth/Daryl shipping from last season and....voila! Look at all the cares I still don't give about Beth!

Disraeli Ears and her SO were not happy campers tonight. He actually only sat through it because I'm a complete slave to this show and he loves me. :P

Edited November 3, 2014 by Disraeli Ears

[ghoulina]

Disraeli Ears and her SO were not happy campers tonight. He actually only sat through it because I'm a complete slave to this show and he loves me. :P

 

Sounds like what happened in my house. Well, my husband does like this show, just not as much as I do. But yea, last night we were both quiet as church mice. And that's not like us. Usually we're yelling at the tv, or discussing what they did/should have done, etc. I felt like we were both just falling asleep. Poor Beth. I have zero issues with the idea of Beth, but I feel like the writers and EK are both falling short.