"The View": Week of 10/06/14

[Athena]

Mo 10/6: John Leguizamo and Ana Ortiz
Tu 10/7: Amy Johnson, Kelley Johnson, Kate Chastain
We 10/8: Robert Herjavec, Lori Greiner and Barbara Corcoran (ABC’s “Shark Tank”), Betty Who
Th 10/9: Carol Burnett

[ginger90]

10/06/14 “The View” celebrates Hispanic Heritage Month with John Leguizamo and Ana Ortiz (“Devious Maids”; ABC’s “How to Get Away with Murder”).

 

10/08/14 Guests; Robert Herjavec, Lori Greiner and Barbara Corcoran (ABC’s “Shark Tank”); singer-songwriter Betty Who performs.

[RogerFromOhio]

Rosie P asked John Leguizamo twice... "How do you deal with your kids (age 13&14) being so "Americanized" ..... She does know they they were born in American??

Someone explain to me how it is a bad thing that kids growing up in America are "Americanized"....... It almost seems she is offended to be an American

[Athena]

Rosie P asked John Leguizamo twice... "How do you deal with your kids (age 13&14) being so "Americanized" ..... She does know they they were born in American??

Someone explain to me how it is a bad thing that kids growing up in America are "Americanized"....... It almost seems she is offended to be an American

 

I think she means Americanized in the cultural sense. Most people who are from immigrant families or new to a country families understand this question. When your kids are born or grow up in a culture that is not the same as your own, there can be a disconnect. It does not mean it's bad, but it can difficult as the values are different. As a child of immigrants, I often clash with certain issue with my parents because we were raised in different ways. John Leguizamo was born in Colombia and had a different upbringing than his kids. Rosie is American by birth, but I think her parents were Puerto Rican. This is fairly typical topic among immigrants of any place, not just America. 

[RogerFromOhio]

Isn't Rosie Perez famous because of that "Americanized culture"?? Those were the roles that she accepted...... I get being proud of your heritage, but there is no need to belittle the American culture..... or maybe we shouldn't be proud to be Americans..... I'm white.. male... American and middle income.... I guess there is nothing to be proud of where I'm concerned..... I don't get a "month"

[Tosia]

Athena--you stated it very nicely.  My dad is an immigrant and we had the best of both worlds, IMHO, but we did have to explain different American issues to Dad, as well as explaining our cultural stuff (food, holidays, rituals) to friends.

 

I have been reading the posts but not posting because Medicine Crow, Dreamboat Annie, and Susieq147 have stated everything that I would have written. I did not even watch last week's DVR shows yet cuz I got the gist from posters. 

 

 It's Whoop's show now.   I had thought that she would get tired of being so talkative and go back to coasting, but doesn't seem like it. I figure it's the meds like posters have mentioned. More's the pity.  Her opinions are ridiculous.  Her laughing ALOT is disconcerting cuz it doesn't fit with the topics.  Her anointing of anyone else's opinion is crazy, given her background--not being a mom when her daughter needed her, and her leniency towards women and children molesters and abusers. 

 

I was hoping to get more of Rosie O., but that store is shut down. Maybe Rosie is waiting out the year for Whoops to leave, and then she can take over.  Otherwise, this is not the View I want to watch. When Rosie starts talking more and Whoops, less, than I will view the View.  Keep me posted, posters!

[Diablo]

 

Isn't Rosie Perez famous because of that "Americanized culture"?? Those were the roles that she accepted...... I get being proud of your heritage, but there is no need to belittle the American culture..... or maybe we shouldn't be proud to be Americans..... I'm white.. male... American and middle income.... I guess there is nothing to be proud of where I'm concerned..... I don't get a "month"

 

That's not how I interpreted Rosie's questions at all. As a second generation immigrant myself, I know how scary and disorienting it was for my parents to deal with a chasm or gulf between their own values and sense of cultural continuity and those of their children. In my own parents case, they came to the U.S. from one of the most impoverished, politically unstable countries in the world. Their religion, their commitment to family, the inordinate value they placed on education and nose-to-the-grindstone hard work were what saved them and helped them survive in such circumstances. Many immigrant parents have come to the shores of the U.S. under similar conditions. looking back, I didn't fully appreciate the struggles they went through and how much their values rendered them such strong, hardworking people. I can understand their wariness of American culture because, to them, it honestly would seem entitled and superficial -- like living in a strange bubble that is oddly disconnected from the everyday horrors and struggles from which they escaped.

 

Frankly, there ARE many aspects of American culture that are entitled and superficial, and this has been commented on, not only by outsiders but also cultural commentators within the U.S.: our consumerism, our anti-intellectualism and the relative respect (or lack thereof with which we hold teachers, our news media which has devolved into entertainment, etc. I am personally grateful for having grown up in the U.S. and love many aspects of American culture and its political, social, and artistic heritage, but I also am glad for the aspects of my parents' culture (which also has its fair share of issues and is also not beyond reproach).

Edited October 6, 2014 by Diablo

[RogerFromOhio]

I agree Diablo, there are negative aspects of American culture.... just like with all other cultures. The point Im trying to make is the positive aspects of American culture are ignored and the focus is on the negative. When different cultures are celebrated, the focus is on the positive aspects of that culture...... and in my opinion that should be the focus..... Im just saying that there are no positive aspects of American culture that is celebrated by anyone in our corporate media or social media.

Even though they say America is where most people want to migrate to, American culture is promoted to be negative.

[Diablo]

I agree Diablo, there are negative aspects of American culture.... just like with all other cultures. The point Im trying to make is the positive aspects of American culture are ignored and the focus is on the negative. When different cultures are celebrated, the focus is on the positive aspects of that culture...... and in my opinion that should be the focus..... Im just saying that there are no positive aspects of American culture that is celebrated by anyone in our corporate media or social media.

Even though they say America is where most people want to migrate to, American culture is promoted to be negative.

I can see how you might get that impression. i read somewhere a neuroscientist say something like: "The mind is like Teflon for positive information and Velcro for negative." The negative aspects will be what is most poignant and prescient for immigrant parents because it's what sticks out as "different" and "other" -- like, "Being in America is causing my children to lose touch with all the positive things I want to instill in them." The aspects of American culture that are at odds with their own culture will obviously stick out to them and strike them as "negative." And in terms of news, its what gets the more clicks on a website or riles up a television audience. Most news is negative. We assign more importance and priority to negative things because positive things aren't problems that our minds can grasp onto and turn into juicy problems to be solved and have opinions on. 

 

But I think most people are definitely aware of the positive aspects of American culture. It's hard to escape American music and ideas wherever you go in the world. In Europe, many artists have taken on and adopted American forms of music. This is especially noticeable with hip-hop and rock music. The Germans students I lived with when I studied abroad in college and the Japanese students I taught English to when I went there in the JET program were kind of obsessed with all things American, even if they had quite a bit to say about our foreign policy or our obesity epidemic, or other aspects of our culture. I think it's natural. I mean, I love a lot of Russian culture (its architecture and especially its classical music and ballet), but I have a heck of a lot to say regarding its politics, homophobia, and racism.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Diablo

[Cosmocrush]

Isn't Rosie Perez famous because of that "Americanized culture"?? Those were the roles that she accepted...... I get being proud of your heritage, but there is no need to belittle the American culture..... or maybe we shouldn't be proud to be Americans..... I'm white.. male... American and middle income.... I guess there is nothing to be proud of where I'm concerned..... I don't get a "month"

Roger, I would think a couple of centuries running the country and most of the world would be enough. 

 

Im just saying that there are no positive aspects of American culture that is celebrated by anyone in our corporate media or social media.

American culture is influenced by almost every other culture in the world, not to mention fifty states.  And then there is country music, something distinctly American, and of course rock music too.    And Broadway.  And Hollywood.   All celebrated by corporate media. 

 

edited to add that Diablo posted while I was writing and said it better. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[RogerFromOhio]

Thanks Diablo

[Vinyasa]

Yeah!  The big table is back.

[RogerFromOhio]

Roger, I would think a couple of centuries running the country and most of the world would be enough. 

 

American culture is influenced by almost every other culture in the world, not to mention fifty states.  And then there is country music, something distinctly American, and of course rock music too.    And Broadway.  And Hollywood.   All celebrated by corporate media. 

 

edited to add that Diablo posted while I was writing and said it better. 

That is kinda my point Cosmocrush..... There has been so much positive that has happened in the past "couple of centuries".... but if someone were to come out saying look at all the positive things that were created by white guys...... how wonderful that white culture has improved American society..... If that were to happen they would be considered racist because it would seem to be detrimental to other races...... and honestly it would be, because American society has improved because of everyone involved.... every group.... both positive and negative.

 

I really wish American culture was celebrated.... instead of a hyphenated form of it.

[Tosia]

Roger from Ohio--What about July 4? 

 

Check out something called," The White Backpack" online. It's about white privilege and it was a BIG eye-opener to me about how we (white people) take for granted all the celebrations/privileges of white society/rule.   Seriously, I appreciate your viewpoint and your patriotism.

 

My Mom and Dad (immigrant) would get very angry when other immigrants put down America.

 

I also get angry when native-born (ironic) Americans put down America.  However, we can all recognize the positives and negatives of any place, plus freedom of speech is a WONDERFUL thing, n'est pas?

[imjagain]

That is kinda my point Cosmocrush..... There has been so much positive that has happened in the past "couple of centuries".... but if someone were to come out saying look at all the positive things that were created by white guys...... how wonderful that white culture has improved American society..... If that were to happen they would be considered racist because it would seem to be detrimental to other races...... and honestly it would be, because American society has improved because of everyone involved.... every group.... both positive and negative.

I really wish American culture was celebrated.... instead of a hyphenated form of it.

Why do "white guys" always need a slap on the back for all the great things they have done?

As soon as anybody says anything about another culture/race, "white guys" start saying hey what about us were great too!?

Yeah, we know "white guys" your great. Hell how long have been hearing, seeing all your greatness?

Being Americanized isn't bad, it's just something people from other cultures deal with wrt their children, being raised in America. It's just a conversion we have. I know we did in my home growing up.

Growing up us kid spoke Spanglish in the house. Drove my mom nuts. It was so second nature to us, my mom hated it. She insisted we only spoke English or Spanish to her. Lol, we thought it was funny.

Edited October 6, 2014 by imjagain

[Diablo]

I get what you're saying, RogerFromOhio. However, maybe it's just because I grew up between cultures, but I think American culture is celebrated every day. It so permeates every aspect of our existence, from the way we speak to the clothes we wear to the food we eat, etc. A celebration of American culture would feel kind of like a celebration of Mondays. Like, "Let's celebrate our everyday existence!" :P it's in our high school history classes (I think most high schoolers in the country take at least a year of U.S. History and a year of Civics/Government and Politics... at least that's how it was when I was in school ten years ago), we listen to American music, and watch American movies, live out American values, etc. It's the air we breathe. We luxuriate in all things American. 

 

Although, if there's one celebration of American culture, I would say it's Super Bowl Day. :)

Edited October 6, 2014 by Diablo

[RogerFromOhio]

Roger from Ohio--What about July 4? 

 

Check out something called," The White Backpack" online. It's about white privilege and it was a BIG eye-opener to me about how we (white people) take for granted all the celebrations/privileges of white society/rule.   Seriously, I appreciate your viewpoint and your patriotism.

 

My Mom and Dad (immigrant) would get very angry when other immigrants put down America.

 

I also get angry when native-born (ironic) Americans put down America.  However, we can all recognize the positives and negatives of any place, plus freedom of speech is a WONDERFUL thing, n'est pas?

Thanks Tosia Ill look into that..... although the "white privilege" issue seems to be promoting blame instead of solutions..... I wish we all could get past skin color as a cause and effect issue.

It is so difficult to discuss these issues without being misunderstood.

Edited October 6, 2014 by RogerFromOhio

[Morgalisa]

 

I guess there is nothing to be proud of where I'm concerned..... I don't get a "month"

With all due respect, Roger, you don't get a month, you get 12 months.  If we were all starting out on equal footing, no one would need a month.  It is important to see your ethnic group represented in a positive way in an Anglo centered country.

 

 

I really wish American culture was celebrated.... instead of a hyphenated form of it.

I would like to see this as well.  And in the future, I think this will happen.  I and a lot of my friends have bi-racial grandchildren.  We are more and more going to a society that is just brown.  However, if we don't have skin color to seperate us, we will find another way to do it.  It's human nature.  

 

Whoopi keeps referring to the Ebola victim as an American.  He is Liberian, but is the first person in the United States to contract Ebola (while in the United States).

[RogerFromOhio]

Why do "white guys" always need a slap on the back for all the great things they have done?

As soon as anybody says anything about another culture/race, "white guys" start saying hey what about us were great too!?

Yeah, we know "white guys" your great. Hell how long have been hearing, seeing all your greatness?

Being Americanized isn't bad, it's just something people from other cultures deal with wrt their children, being raised in America. It's just a conversion we have. I know we did in my home growing up.

Growing up us kid spoke Spanglish in the house. Drove my mom nuts. It was so second nature to us, my hated it. She would insisted we only spoke English or Spanish to her. Lol, we thought it was funny.

I get the sarcasm imjagain.... but honestly..... when has the "white race" been seen in a positive manner??  It seems that anytime the white race is mentioned, it is in a negative light...... It reminds me of the religious issue..... if a Muslim engages in a violent criminal activity his religion is pointed out... but if a Christian commits the same crime, his Religion is ignored.

Honestly I don't really have a solution.... just felt the need to share my perception.

[imjagain]

I get the sarcasm imjagain.... but honestly..... when has the "white race" been seen in a positive manner?? It seems that anytime the white race is mentioned, it is in a negative light...... It reminds me of the religious issue..... if a Muslim engages in a violent criminal activity his religion is pointed out... but if a Christian commits the same crime, his Religion is ignored.

Honestly I don't really have a solution.... just felt the need to share my perception.

Sorry. I was being sarcastic.

I'm also sorry that you honestly don't see that White culture is celebrated. Just because it's OK now, to call out white culture on some of the messed up stuff they have done. Does not mean white culture is only seen in a negative way. Being white is still pretty huge, just sayin' ;)

We might get a month, but how long has that been going on?

[RogerFromOhio]

Roger, I'm afraid you missed my point completely.   My comment about the last couple centuries 'celebrating' White American Males wasn't intended to be positive.  It was in response to your "where is my month" comment.    Morgalisa said it much more clearly.    I find calling for a celebration of white privilege a strange response to the idea of recognizing the contributions of Latino culture. 

I'm not privileged because I'm white.... and I was not promoting a celebration for "white privilege" my stance above was there is no reason to belittle American culture.... or white culture for that matter.... to celebrate your own heritage and culture.

Im going to try and back out of this discussion because it is starting to get off topic and I am being misunderstood... possibly on purpose

[marny]

This discussion is reminding me of when I was a kid and it was Mother's Day, and I asked my parents how come there was no Children's Day. They responded "Every day is Children's Day. That's why."

[susieq147]

This discussion is reminding me of when I was a kid and it was Mother's Day, and I asked my parents how come there was no Children's Day. They responded "Every day is Children's Day. That's why."

 

 

 

Exactly!!!

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

No comments on the Bill Maher/Ben Affleck brouhaha? I have never seen Ben so animated and oh, how I wish he were even half as animated on film. Good-looking guy, but so so wooden. Maher's disdain for religious people is old and tired already. ISIS and the Oklahoma beheading perp are no more representative of Islam than Jim Jones and David Koresh represent Christianity.

Engaged Whoopi is light years away from Comatose Whoopi. Viewers like me have wanted her awake and actively participating for years. Now that she is, my brain is stuck on that famous line from Tora Tora Tora: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Take a nap, Whoopi!

[shok]

I'm not privileged because I'm white....

 

It's really sad to see a statement like this and unfortunately it is shared by many many white people. If you think you could open your mind to the probability that you are I could give you several links to really thoughtful, profound articles that discuss how white people are extremely privileged. I have realized and acknowledged most of my life that I am privileged and I have been fascinated by the stories and diaries from white people who have more recently also come to that realization in ways both overt and subtle.

[Athena]

While this discussion has some interesting points, I think we should move back to talking about the show. Thanks.

[RogerFromOhio]

For someone to say and expect they are privileged because of their race is foolishness in my opinion..... white people are no better than any other race of people.... but that is what privilege says.... white people also have problems.... have issues to deal with...... yes they may be different problems..... but that doesn't make them less of an issue...... Yes there is racism.... and every time racism raises it's ugly head it should be pointed out and challenged every time.... but not just by "people of color"... it needs to be challenged by all people no matter their skin color.

 

The concept of "white privilege" says that all white people are racist because of the color of their skin. This is fundamentally untrue

[Bronzedog]

I've noticed Whoopie has stopped her "it's what white folks do". "It's how white folks think". Was always amazed she thought she was an expert on what it is like to be white. As a white I never realized how whites felt, how great we're treated all the times,the benefits except for all those pesty exemptions to EEO laws until Whoopie told me. Whoopie was quite the expert Until she wasn't anymore

[mommalode]

never mind, just noticed moderator's request to stick to the show.

Edited October 6, 2014 by mommalode

[bluemosaic]

No comments on the Bill Maher/Ben Affleck brouhaha? I have never seen Ben so animated and oh, how I wish he were even half as animated on film. Good-looking guy, but so so wooden. Maher's disdain for religious people is old and tired already. ISIS and the Oklahoma beheading perp are no more representative of Islam than Jim Jones and David Koresh represent Christianity.

Engaged Whoopi is light years away from Comatose Whoopi. Viewers like me have wanted her awake and actively participating for years. Now that she is, my brain is stuck on that famous line from Tora Tora Tora: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Take a nap, Whoopi!

 

Although I believe ISIS is NOT representative of Islam, I feel that Bill Maher has a right to criticize Islam, as a religion. Homophobia and sexism aren't just symptomatic of Islamic extremism; they are codified into law in many Islamic countries. Liberals openly criticize other religions, such as Catholicism, for their archaic ideology, but no liberal ever calls each other racist or bigoted for doing so. And don't let me get started on the batshit craziness of Scientology, OK??

I believe it is OK to criticize the religious institution of Islam, but it's not OK to condemn all Muslims with a broad stroke. It is not OK to discriminate against them. It is not OK to assume all Muslims believe in the exact same ideology. Macro criticism is justified, but criticism on the individual level is not OK, for not all Muslims subscribe to parts of Islam that violate the fundamental rights of others. This attitude is assumed when we criticize institutions of any kind, whether it be Catholicism or Republican ideology. We as liberals liberally criticize the Catholic institution and the Republican Party for their social conservatism, but we all know some Catholics and Republicans who are socially liberal and do not subscribe to these extreme ideas.

Do not mistake and confound criticism of an institution on the macro level for/with prejudice and bigotry against individuals on the micro level.

Edited October 6, 2014 by bluemosaic

[Tosia]

Marny--great answer--everyday is white privilege day.  Roger--for positive statements look to American History taught in schools, and Science, and Literature, and Math, etc............  It is only recently that any other race/culture was considered in these topics.  Ok, enough of this topic.  Sorry Moderators.

[mbutterfly]

Thanks Tosia Ill look into that..... although the "white privilege" issue seems to be promoting blame instead of solutions..... I wish we all could get past skin color as a cause and effect issue.

It is so difficult to discuss these issues without being misunderstood.

I agree it is difficult to discuss without being misunderstood. I'm from Indiana, pretty close to Ohio. I grew up with so little ethnic diversity, having a grandparent who was German was the extreme. It took me a while to really get that America actually was multi-hued and has been so from the beginning. Still, even as a white woman my gut tightens up a bit when someone suggests there has been a failure to appreciate white men in America. But, having posted with you a good deal, I'm pretty certain you didn't mean it the way I originally took it. So I can see why the discussion on The View was also difficult for the women discussing there. We don't all receive it the way it is sent. 

[RogerFromOhio]

We were having a discussion on Facebook about Bill Maher's comments about "blaming the Muslim Religion" for violent activities. Someone posted a video where the guy was explaining there are different "Muslim Countries" who do not engage in these extremist ideologies.... and there are others that do.... but all of the "Muslim Countries" are being painted with the same brush.

 

One thing he said that I really agreed with.... The Muslim Religion does not promote violence.... no Religion does..... but people either are or are not violent.

 

It seems those who tend to be violent use their religion to justify their violent actions.

Thanks mbutterfly

[Tosia]

I'm sorry--it is The Invisible Backpack by Peggy MacIntosh. That is all.

[bluemosaic]

We were having a discussion on Facebook about Bill Maher's comments about "blaming the Muslim Religion" for violent activities. Someone posted a video where the guy was explaining there are different "Muslim Countries" who do not engage in these extremist ideologies.... and there are others that do.... but all of the "Muslim Countries" are being painted with the same brush.

 

One thing he said that I really agreed with.... The Muslim Religion does not promote violence.... no Religion does..... but people either are or are not violent.

 

It seems those who tend to be violent use their religion to justify their violent actions.

Thanks mbutterfly

 

I agree with you for the most part. Religion is all interpretive. But violence is not the only issue with Islam. Many Islamic countries codify homophobia and sexism into law; many do not. The UN movement on gay and lesbian rights were halted by Islamic countries. I don't believe any of them jumped on the gay bandwagon. There are systemic issues relating to human rights violation running through SOME Islamic countries. The culture, is another story. It may or may not jibe with the laws, however conservative or liberal.

Things get tricky when the first part of the Koran promotes peace, while in the latter half of it, Mohammed retracts his peaceful statements in the first part and urges violence on infidels. But similarly, there are violent, ridiculous parts of the Christian Bible that peaceful Christian practitioners ignore. And I'm sure many Muslims ignore the violent parts of the Koran. Religion has always been about the interpretation; hence, the numerous and various sects.

Perhaps we all should use very specific language when criticizing religion, or institutions of any kind. Do the research, and speak more specifically and less in broad strokes. That I believe is the lesson from the Maher/Affleck debacle.

[Cosmocrush]

Yeah!  The big table is back.

What the heck was that?   Looked like they put longer legs on the coffee table.  I don't really understand why they needed a new table and chairs just because Whoopi can't manage to sit in them without looking ridiculous.  She needs something to put her notes on?  What's wrong with the teleprompter or hey, I know - look at those notes before the show starts!    Anyway, she's still bitching about it and still sitting with her legs wide apart while the other three co-hosts somehow manage to sit normally for an hour. 

 

And Hey! What about This?!  <---- Hate that.   This show has gone from The Spew to The Whoopi Show.  Why does she need to weigh in on every single topic? Not only that, but she seems to get the first and last word most of the time.  I wonder why she needed to hang onto the mod title so desperately?  Do you guys think it was ego or money?  Seems like the Whoopi I've seen over these past seven years would rejoice at less to do.  I'd be fine with her making the same money if she would trade places with RO.   Either way, she needs to stop talking so much  and maybe read a little more.  Today she called Thomas Duncan "the first American" Ebola patient when 1) he's not an American and 2) there have been two actual American patients successfully treated with a third on the way. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[RogerFromOhio]

I agree with you for the most part. Religion is all interpretive. But violence is not the only issue with Islam. Many Islamic countries codify homophobia and sexism into law; many do not. The UN movement on gay and lesbian rights were halted by Islamic countries. I don't believe any of them jumped on the gay bandwagon. There are systemic issues relating to human rights violation running through SOME Islamic countries. The culture, is another story. It may or may not jibe with the laws, however conservative or liberal.

Things get tricky when the first part of the Koran promotes peace, while in the latter half of it, Mohammed retracts his peaceful statements in the first part and urges violence on infidels. But similarly, there are violent, ridiculous parts of the Christian Bible that peaceful Christian practitioners ignore. And I'm sure many Muslims ignore the violent parts of the Koran. Religion has always been about the interpretation; hence, the numerous and various sects.

Perhaps we all should use very specific language when criticizing religion, or institutions of any kind. Do the research, and speak more specifically and less in broad strokes. That I believe is the lesson from the Maher/Affleck debacle.

Where this may be true.... it doesn't stop at Islam.... Christianity uses their beliefs to promote an anti-homosexual agenda in our laws..... it is changing now but for way too long there has not been the possibility to a legal union of gay people in America... all the way back to our not too distance past where being homosexual was actually illegal (and still is in some places).... and honestly, all of that bigotry came from the Christian Religion.

That is the problem with criticizing one Religion....... almost all criticism on one Religion can be transferred to all of them. I have seen it for quite a while.... Religion seems to me to be an US vs THEM mentality..... and no one wants to be a THEM

[mommalode]

Marny--great answer--everyday is white privilege day.

When you think of that in the worldview, the fanatic Muslims they were talking about on Bill Maher think everyday is "American privilege" day. They don't level their hatred of Americans by skin color --- Americans are all hated equally.

Either way, she needs to stop talking so much and maybe read a little more.

I hear that. She once said women got the vote before black men. And she said it in a very self-assured tone. Edited October 6, 2014 by mommalode

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

Although I believe ISIS is NOT representative of Islam, I feel that Bill Maher has a right to criticize Islam, as a religion.

* snipped for space *

Do not mistake and confound criticism of an institution on the macro level for/with prejudice and bigotry against individuals on the micro level.

Of course, Maher and Harris can criticize whatever they want until the cows come home. Occasionally they even make valid points along the way. More power to them. I'm just completely over Maher's "religion is a neurological disorder" schtick, personally.

I'm not mistaking or confounding anything. But...thanks?

[CMH1981]

What I don't get in regards to the coffee table growing is why don't they just ask the hosts what table they feel most comfortable w/and get it for them.  So we started w/the coffee table and the hosts (vocally stated by Rosie and Whoopi on air) hated it, and now we have this new table, but even now we know that Whoopi and Rosie hate it, but we have to see how this table works for a few weeks before the one the hosts would like can come to be.  This makes no sense at all.  I also thought later on the show when Whoopi had her right leg draped in front of the table was crass.

[NextIteration]

Whoopi keeps referring to the Ebola victim as an American.  He is Liberian

 

This is making me CRAZY!  She's not the only doing it either, I think I've heard Mika and some of the weekend folks on CNN do the same thing and they are supposed to be news shows.

 

I'm on the Ben Affleck acted like a douche Friday night train, sorry Ro, I disagree with you.  While Maher is far too simplistic on most things religious, Affleck shouted down Sam Harris and didn't seem to understand the nuance in the conversation.  Nobody is showing enough of the clip while hyping this "brouhaha".  If you watch Overtime you can clearly see that it blew over quickly and there weren't any hard feelings about it.  That's part of what really frustrates me about watching any of these darned shows, time constraints dictate that just when conversations get interesting, on to the next topic/block/segment they go.  Harris' main point, and you can agree or disagree with it, is that the baseline, within the Muslim population there are far more fundamentalists than other religions, and that there are some really bad tenets to Islam.  Nicolle got the nuance and actually said some interesting things about Maher's stance regarding Liberals not calling out Islam (and  some Muslims) out of fear of being deemed bigoted, (accused of Islamaphobia which is what Affleck immediately did) when they don't miss a beat calling out Christians (and sometimes Jews) for many of the same or equally offensive fundamentalist beliefs, deeds and actions.

 

It's great that they celebrated Hispanic Heritage Month, I just wish Ro and Rosie would do something about Mental Illness Awareness week, it won't happen though, but since they won't I don't want to listen to bitching about the strangeness of other celebratory days/weeks/months.  I'm sure we'll get buried in Pink at some point in the near future as well, sigh, at least on the breast cancer topic, Ro pointed out that cardiac disease is a much bigger killer, recently.

Edited October 6, 2014 by NextIteration

[Cosmocrush]

No comments on the Bill Maher/Ben Affleck brouhaha?

 

I noticed that Nicolle used that topic to totally discredit and slam  Maher's opinion as though he was more than just a TV host with his own show.  She carefully and smoothly accused him of at the very least endangering our troops and at most endangering the whole mission or whatever we are calling wars these days.   Very provocative Nicolle.  Very provocative.  And much craftier than making up stories about a Fake Fighter Pilot Friend or running around Central Park with a flag.  And yet, the message is the very similar.  

 

What Nicolle said verbatim:  

Bill Maher, I don't think is going to stop anytime soon, at pointing out what he thinks are violent strains in Islam.   And it's a very provocative thing to say because at this very moment there are Muslims flying missions alongside American pilots to help us defeat ISIS.  So, it is a very provocative thing to say at a time when President Obama has assembled a coalition that includes many Muslims who are fighting alongside Americans.  

And RO said, "Right."  

 

And I said, "Oh RO, just think about what Nicolle just said."  

 

It reminded me of the out of context lashing Republicans put on Maher after his comments about the 9/11 terrorists.  That time he lost his show.  This time, a little social media buzz for his show and Affleck's movie.

[CathinAZ]

Looks like someone ordered a table that is taller but doesn't have enough surface area and legs placed awkwardly so when the 4 ladies are sitting around it the people on the ends almost have to straddle the table leg. A new table will be ordered pronto!

My husband, who never watches this show, was home late this afternoon when I was watching it and watched hot topics with me. He and I were both laughing and enjoying it ( color me surprised). I almost spit out my drink when Whoopi did the call to the coast guard ("Hello? I'm walking on water..." )

I hadn't heard about the ben affleck/ bill maher incident so will need to read up on that. As an aside, just saw ben in Gone Girl this weekend....hadn't read the book so didn't know what to expect .what a creepy and dark plot line...but a good movie!

[NextIteration]

I noticed that Nicolle used that topic to totally discredit and slam  Maher's opinion as though he was more than just a TV host with his own show.  She carefully and smoothly accused him of at the very least endangering our troops and at most endangering the whole mission or whatever we are calling wars these days.   Very provocative Nicolle.  Very provocative.  And much craftier than making up stories about a Fake Fighter Pilot Friend or running around Central Park with a flag.  And yet, the message is the very similar.  

 

Yup.  At least it was nuanced I'll give her that.  I'm under no illusion that she won't say things like this, she is after all THE REPUBLICAN ON THE PANEL, as she tells us almost daily.  Laughs, can you imagine S.E. Cupp on this?  Seriously, y'all we dodged a bullet there!

[bluemosaic]

I'm on the Ben Affleck acted like a douche Friday night train, sorry Ro, I disagree with you.  While Maher is far too simplistic on most things religious, Affleck shouted down Sam Harris and didn't seem to understand the nuance in the conversation.  

 

 

It was grandstanding by an actor whom I wouldn't exactly call a mental giant. Nothing was served by his little tantrum, except his ego. The complete unwillingness to hear Maher's and Harris' finer points proved that he was more interested in serving his sanctimonious, self-righteous outrage than an intelligent dialogue and debate. Can we have a Real Time moratorium on actors who's just there to promote their films? Nothing against actors but IQ points seem to drop a few points whenever they're on the panel

Edited October 7, 2014 by bluemosaic

[bluemosaic]

Where this may be true.... it doesn't stop at Islam.... Christianity uses their beliefs to promote an anti-homosexual agenda in our laws..... it is changing now but for way too long there has not been the possibility to a legal union of gay people in America... all the way back to our not too distance past where being homosexual was actually illegal (and still is in some places).... and honestly, all of that bigotry came from the Christian Religion.

That is the problem with criticizing one Religion....... almost all criticism on one Religion can be transferred to all of them. I have seen it for quite a while.... Religion seems to me to be an US vs THEM mentality..... and no one wants to be a THEM

 

That's the point. Religion polarizes...its doctrine judges and assigns value to people in degrees of worthiness. That's what critics of Islam and other religions are speaking out against! Of course, there are subscribers who don't judge and devalue people. That's assumed. A given. If we don't speak out against religious infractions of human rights and decency, then how would we ever change things?? I'm a staunch liberal, and I call this tip-toeing around Islam total BS. 

If Islamic laws (Sharia) were codified into American law, as they are in many Islamic countries, would liberals still be tip-toeing around the subject of Islam? 

Also, can we talk about the Muslim women AND GIRLS who are still being subjected to domestic abuse, forced marriage, rape, and jailed for crimes of "morality"...all under sanctified by Islamic law in certain countries? And how about non-Muslim women who were imprisoned for accusing men of raping them in some Islamic countries?? This is not just extremism. This is codified law and the judicial process in some Islamic countries. Granted, not all Islamic countries. But please, let's not pretend there isn't a problem with Islam and human rights because we are so concerned about being politically correct. Let's not ignore the elephant in the room.

Edited October 7, 2014 by bluemosaic

[Morbs]

I wasn't with Rosie in her overwhelming support of Ben Affleck.  I have no idea what the percentage of Muslims are that believe in violence against those who disagree with them, but I do not care what religion you believe in, it is fucked up to put women in burcas or to hate homosexuals (like me!).  So believing that, I am always skeptical of pretty much all organized religions.

 

I don't believe Rosie Perez meant any harm in asking about losing children to the American culture.  To me, it mostly meant in terms of food, music, and minor social norms.  I'm white, so I definitely feel the benefits of white privilege: they will hire me, talk to me as an equal, talk shit about black people or women to me, then realize I am gay, so I suddenly become an "other", get made fun of, and then get let go.  America is just fundamentally more of a melting pot, so that is why so many Irish Americans or Italian Americans associate more with their mother country, no matter how far removed.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Did anyone happen to catch what Rosie said about what Rosie P's husband was flying out to work on?  I think Whoopi brought it up that he'd be flying out, and Rosie P said something like yes, he's working, and Rosie O said something, to which Rosie P said "You said it, I didn't".  I missed what it was that Rosie O said.

 

 

Engaged Whoopi is light years away from Comatose Whoopi. Viewers like me have wanted her awake and actively participating for years. Now that she is, my brain is stuck on that famous line from Tora Tora Tora: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Take a nap, Whoopi!

 

 

OMG - LOL!!  That is the absolute best, most hilarious and spot-on analogy EVER, Milk-Eyed Mender.

 

 

I noticed that Nicolle used that topic to totally discredit and slam  Maher's opinion as though he was more than just a TV host with his own show.  She carefully and smoothly accused him of at the very least endangering our troops and at most endangering the whole mission or whatever we are calling wars these days.   Very provocative Nicolle.  Very provocative.  And much craftier than making up stories about a Fake Fighter Pilot Friend or running around Central Park with a flag.  And yet, the message is the very similar.

 

 

Wow, beautifully said, Cosmo!  And nothing short of a brilliant observation, too.  I agree.  It's eerily similar.  Oh, Nicolle is smooth, all right.  Careful and smooth.  And very crafty.  And this is Nicolle, staying quiet, polite and keeping a low profile.  We can be ready for what's coming.  (But I must add I had to LOL at "making up stories about a Fake Fighter Pilot Friend or running around Central Park with a flag".  LOL!!  hope you don't mind if I add one: ...or citing your young child as the sage voice of reason, truth and wisdom.)

 

We are privileged in ways we are not aware of and in things we often don't know about, worry about or even think about - because we don't have to.  And that in itself is a privilege.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-broadbent/a-mothers-white-privilege_b_5698263.html

[bluemosaic]

 I do not care what religion you believe in, it is fucked up to put women in burcas or to hate homosexuals (like me!).  

 

 

 

From one homo to another....yooooooo whassssup!!

 

Calling America a 'melting pot' is not a true characterization, imo. Parts of it are. I don't know the percentages. But there is still a lot of segregation, in the way communities are structured and in its gestalt.

[Morbs]

I know what you mean, bluemosaic, like some call it more of a mixed salad.  I just meant so many people here, in my experience, associate more with their mother country.  Personally, I feel pretty American, since my heritage is so diversified, I am white and blonde with blueish eyes and freckles, I feel pretty American., But most of of friends feel Greek, Serbian, Italian, or Polish, even though their grandparents are U.S citizens.