S02.E07: Convergence

[AimingforYoko]

Quote

As the Wolves and the Scars prepare for a battle that could potentially end their longstanding feud, Ellie's search draws her away from her friends and toward a devastating confrontation.

Cute. So I suppose we'll start Season 3 from Abby's perspective? And not much of a cliffhanger, we know Ellie's not dead.

Edited Monday at 01:56 AM by AimingforYoko

[Brown44]

7 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Cute. So I suppose we'll start Season 3 from Abby's perspective? And not much of a cliffhanger, we know Ellie's not dead.

TLoU2 was played half as Abby so yeah we're gonna get the parts of the game that was played thru Abby played out on the show.

[patty1h]

During the first 5 minutes I was nervous that Ellie came back to Dina covered in spores and Dina would keel over.  Anyway, after last weeks great episode, the finale was a chaotic mess:

Jessie finds out he's a dad, Dina gives Ellie a bracelet to show her love after Ellie tells her about Joel's massacre in SLC; Ellie almost blows her/Jessie's cover to try to save a Seraphite from the WLF goons, Jessie gets sick of Ellie's focus on revenge and leaves her to her mission; Isaac explains that he's picked Abby to be his replacement; Ellie figures out that Abby may be at some old aquarium and takes a boat onto raging seas and surfs a giant wave, ending up on the Seraphites island. They grab her and a little boy decides that Ellie should be executed. They hang her but there is a last second save and Ellie escapes the island. She miraculously finds two of Abby's cohorts and shoots them both, then is asked to do a Caesarean section on the (pregnant!) female she just shot. The woman bleeds out.  Ellie is then rescued again! by Tommy and Jessie.  All of that in the span of a few hours.  Whew!

Abby shows up and shoots Jessie in the eye! The ending is a WTF? cliffhanger. 

Edited Monday at 02:18 AM by patty1h

[MrWhyt]

the season could have used one or 2 more episodes to spread things out a bit more. This episode was good on it's own but didn't really feel like a season finale, which is certainly a side effect of the game's structure.

[peridot]

I know the rain supposedly washed off the spores that infects people, but Ellie wasn't a bit concerned that she was carrying something fatal back to her base?

If I was Jesse, I would have been fed up with Ellie too.  She can't bother to respond when the guy who saved her ass asked her a question?  I would have strangled her if she tried to blow the cover just to save someone when they were severely outnumbered.  Was Ellie really surprised when Jesse basically told her "good luck and God bless" after she called him self-righteous.  He was much kinder than I would have been.

Damn at his ending, though.

I really hated it ended on a cliffhanger.  I hope they filmed the seasons back to back.  If not, I feel short-changed.

[Dev F]

Overall I thought this was a good wrap-up, but a little rough around the edges. Having Ellie go from coldly torturing Nora with a pipe to killing Owen in self-defense and accidentally killing Mel feels like what writers sometimes call a two-one punch: an unsatisfying narrative choice where an especially dramatic moment builds to . . . a less dramatic one.

It's also structurally weird to have introduced Abby and her four compatriots and set them up as targets for Ellie's revenge—and then have one of them, Manny, not feature in Ellie's revenge story at all. Especially since his characterization as the most contemptuous of Joel's killers made him seem ideal to serve as Ellie's first victim, the kill that doesn't seem so bad because he was such a garbage person all along.

And leaving Manny alive also muddied up the season's final twist, because if Abby wakes up and there's a dead guy at her door, it's immediately clear that we're flashing back to an earlier time, but if both characters are still alive, I'm not sure it's obvious at first that this isn't just a cut to some later day. And regardless of its importance as exposition, it's definitely a stronger mission statement for season 3 if we end with we flash back to Abby's life at a simpler time when her now-dead friend was still alive instead of we flash back to Abby's life and Manny is hanging around then, too.

Edited Monday at 03:15 AM by Dev F

[thuganomics85]

Isaac: "Where in the hell did Abby go?!  Her and her gang just disappeared!"

Park:  "Actually, Manny is still here.:

Isaac:  "Man, fuck Manny!"

You know, he might be one of the main (?) antagonists, but Isaac is kind of relatable on some levels.  I blame it on Jeffery Wright!

 

Oh, Jesse.  Once he got as much screen time as he did here and they brought up how he is arguably a "good person" in Ellie and the other characters' eyes, I knew he was a goner.  He even found out that he was going to be a father before it all went down.  In hindsight, he really should have gone to Texas with that painter he was crushing on.  Then again, had he not stayed, Ellie and Dina might not still be here either.  Either way, he's another person close to Ellie that is no longer with us.  Rough.  And they did reveal that he actually was one of the council members that voted no.  Had a feeling that was going to be the case.  Credit to Young Mazino for making the most of his screen time.

Dina finds out about what Joel did to the Fireflies and isn't taking it well at all.  But I guess her giving Ellie the watch was a sign that she hasn't given up on her?  Granted, after everything she's been through, Dina has earned a few moments to collect all of her thoughts.

Scar Island doesn't not seem like a pleasant place, to put it mildly.  I'm guessing the Wolves are attacking their village, which is why we had all of that shooting and explosions at the end.  Really not sure which of these groups is the worst.  Maybe the rest of the world will get lucky and they'll wipe each other out.

Ellie adds two new victims to her list, with Owen and Mel both getting taken out thanks to Owen trying to be cute and pulling a gun on Ellie.  But wait!  Turns out Mel was pregnant this entire time.  Yikes!  Even if her getting shot wasn't on purpose, I imagine that will do a number on Ellie's already fragile psyche.  And then a desperate Mel begging Ellie to cut out the baby which was probably never going to happen.  Even in the womb, babies are not safe on HBO shows!

Glad Tommy finally returned.  No one will ever top Joel, but seeing him again was the closet to having a calming presence on the show.  Briefly...

At least Shimmer is apparently still chilling in the record station!  Eating that good grass!

Abby is here and is pissed!  Kaitlyn Dever is already bringing that intensity and charisma!  But hold up!  We're flashing back to Day One from her perspective?  Will next season start out with her in the lead role?  Interesting approach.

Overall, I enjoyed this season still but I do think it was more flawed compared to last season.  Less episodes definitely hurt it as I feel like some stuff and characters could have been fleshed out more.  I also think Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross being less hands on this go around might have hurt it, because I thought these last two episodes were some of the stronger ones, and I noticed they wrote both of them (and Neil directed the previous episode.)  But I also think they didn't quite get a handle on the Ellie/Dina relationship, as it kind of came off soapy and silly at times.  Also, while it is obviously following what happened in the games, I suspect Joel/Pedro Pascal's absence going forward is going to be tough to handle.  But I'm still looking forward to seeing how this plays out.  Sucks we'll probably have to wait another two years or so.

[T Summer]

I can't believe I'm watching this dreck.

 

 

How are some of you concluding that Jesse was shot?

edit: oh II see he's down and she says before I shoot this one too!

Edited Monday at 04:18 AM by T Summer
correction

[aghst]

There was a bullet hole in his cheek.

 

Ellie is like a terminator, snarling at Jesse about moral superiority as she goes by herself on her revenge tour, when Tommy might need help.

She doesn't know what she might face.  Does she expect to surprise Abby who's by herself?  Going in blind, not knowing what kind of security measures there might be even if Abby is alone?

It's pouring and not even safe to cross that body of water in that storm.  She is about to get her guts cut out when she's literally saved by the bell as the Wolves attack the Seraphites.

She happens to get the jump on Owen and Mel, even though she's walking around in some building with her bright flashlight.  She had to dry the bullets so she can't have more than 6 bullets?

What if there are more than 6 enemies and that's assuming she kills with every shot.

Accidentally killing Mel and the panic of trying to save the baby is suppose to make sure remorseful, according to the show runners.

Oh but I guess Abby managed to sneak into where they were hiding and she's about to beat all 4 of them, another unlikely outcome.

Though they say she's an excellent soldier and the chosen successor to lead the WLF.

 

[MJ Frog]

Great outro song for Seattle. Makes me miss Chris Cornell. Some more.

Goodness gracious. When did Ellie get so stupid? She has a girlfriend and a baby and people she cares about in danger. Joel would never have put his own shit over them. Never.

Also, we're supposed to see Abby and Ellie as two sides of the same coin, but I'm still not buying it, even after all that. Abby is a sadist, and a straight up killer. If the tables were turned, she wouldn't have been as affected as Ellie was by Mel's and Mel's baby's death. She and Ellie are similar, but not the same. Fuck you, Abby.

Also, fuck you showrunners. They're now saying they're going to need a FOURTH season to wrap this up. Well yeah, if we're only getting seven episodes every two years. How about a longer season three? At this rate, we won't be done until almost 2030. Jesus. 

Apparently this episode made me grumpy.

[T Summer]

Me too.

 

I know the precise moment I should have stopped watching this show. In the convo between Joel and Marlene when he comes to at the hospital she asks "We lost half our crew crossing the country, I had 5 men whose only job was to protect me  and I still almost got killed. How did you do it?"

Joel replies "It was all her, she fought like hell to get here."

 

IDK why it wouldn't be enough to tell the story of  a girl  living  her mid   to late teens  during   this apocalyptic event where  she turns out to be immune instead of quickly succumbing to a bite from one of the  infected?

Why does she  practically  have to be a super hero, too?

No, Ellie was not singlehandedly responsible for them making it to Salt Lake. She wasn't even 50% responsible as Joel was older, wiser, stronger had skills she didn't that she  needed to learn from him, etc. Yes, there were times they had to rely on each which was one of the many things that brought them closer together...  but writing "it was all her" is absolutely RIDICULOUS!

When s2 opened Jesse was teaching Ellie the skills she needed  to overtake a grown man. No, one cannot do anything and everything they desire through sheer force of will. Sorry.

Of course the show had Ellie assuming she'd have been  one of the 16 best the colony   sent to avenge Joel's death is the majority  had  agreed.

She's a shitty   member from going off and doing whatever she pleases  on patrols to how she wanted to violate the protocol  set by the group   to not bring infected members back behind the gates. The virus is changing all the time but Dr. Ellie had no doubt she knew just how long Eugene had.

🙄

I absolutely saw red last episode when she said to Joel I don't want to ever hear you're taking me off patrol again! and he replies  with a meek ok. Excuse me? That's exactly what should happen to someone who won't listen and continually puts themselves  and others in danger.

and now she's gotten Jesse shot and Tommy's in danger because of  her selfish revenge fantasy BS.

The actress is 5'1+1/2" tall and the one playing Dina even is even shorter but of course, they had no problem getting from Jackson to Seattle, parking Shimmer  and then battling hoards of infected. Can the writers  get a grip here? This juvenile fantasy of the central character...  a kid overcoming the odds and  battling bigger  or more numerous adversaries has been done to death! Can they not write something else?

🏌️‍♀️🐎

 

 

 

[Glade]

Poor Jesse! Since we're back at Day 1, hopefully we see him a lot next season.  I do wish Abby didn't get the last scene/last word here, though.  I'll look forward to the next 2 seasons (and the showrunner has been saying 4 since s1, it's not new), either way this is still very compelling.  This isn't a world where people live just because they deserve to or we like them.

Meanwhile, that was a lot of adrenaline, a lot of trauma, and little-no food or sleep, so imo it's understandable if Ellie was all over the place by the end.  Are the wolves just attacking the scars with those bombs, or are they going to destroy the hospital to try and eliminate the threat?  Whole building needs to be incinerated...

Edited Monday at 08:20 AM by Glade

[millennium]

I'm sick of shows that are too dark to watch, and I don't mean thematically.   Viewers shouldn't have to squint or adjust their TVs from scene to scene.

What a disappointment to see badass Ellie turn into a puddle of goo once she finally comes face to face with Abby.   "I didn't mean to kill your friends!" and "Nooo, don't shoot him!"

So Ellie gets to fake-out death twice in one episode?  The Seraphites become  distracted and let her fall to the ground when she's on the very brink of petechiae, then she's not killed by Abby's bullet (obviously).   This is the second show I've watched in two nights that closes out the season with a "dead? not dead?" cliffhanger.

And since I'm in a complaining mood, I'm tired of the ever-contracting number of episodes in series television now.  I still remember when a season was 22 episodes and shows had a new season every year.  The streaming came along and it dropped to twelve episodes.   Then ten episodes.   Then eight episodes.  Now it's six or seven episodes.   Plus, we're forced to wait 1.5 to 2 years for whatever spoonful of new episodes they dole out.  (Looking at you too, House of the Dragon).

 

 

[30 Helens]

I know I’m supposed to root for Ellie here, but I really don’t see how Abby is any worse. As far as Abby is concerned, her father was a heroic doctor who was fighting to save humanity. He had to make some hard choices, but he was doing it for the greater good and (as she sees it) was gunned down by a madman whose selfishness led him to slaughter a room full of people who were only trying to cure a plague.

Ellie also lost her “father” and has a right to be angry about that, as his death was pure retribution. But even Ellie doesn’t see Joel as a hero or a savior, he’s just a flawed, deeply loyal man who loved her very much. And her guilt about pushing him away before he died is very likely fueling her rage. But her loss is no greater than Abby’s, and if Abby is wrong for seeking vengeance, than so is Ellie. 

I’m looking forward to spending some time with Abby, as Kaitlyn Deaver is a fantastic actress and I’m intrigued by the character. I also think it will be good for Ellie step back and calm down a bit, before she alienates Dina and everyone else with her reckless cause.

A moment of silence for Jesse.

[T Summer]

25 minutes ago, millennium said:

petechiae

Not easy to slip into  a conversation 😉

I knew what it was from watching a lot of Forensic Files.

Are we ever going to learn more about this female savior the Seraphites are always invoking? It sounds like a deity they believe in. Have they ever said her name?

40 minutes ago, millennium said:

I'm sick of shows that are too dark to watch, and I don't mean thematically.   Viewers shouldn't have to squint or adjust their TVs from scene to scene.

Yes, I end up asking a lot of questions about what happened or worse having to rewatch because I'm viewing the show on a small  bedroom TV. With the way so many scenes are shot in such a dark fashion it can be hard to see what's going on.

 

[baldryanr]

2 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Also, we're supposed to see Abby and Ellie as two sides of the same coin, but I'm still not buying it, even after all that. Abby is a sadist, and a straight up killer. If the tables were turned, she wouldn't have been as affected as Ellie was by Mel's and Mel's baby's death. She and Ellie are similar, but not the same. Fuck you, Abby.

All we know about Abby is that her dad was killed by Joel, she went all in on vengeance, and she's a member of the WLF when she's not on a revenge quest.  We've barely spent more time with her than Ellie has, but she's clearly going to be portrayed as more nuanced than a sadist.  It's almost as if most characters aren't supposed to be one-dimensional caricatures the audience should be completely for or against.  

2 hours ago, T Summer said:

The actress is 5'1+1/2" tall and the one playing Dina even is even shorter but of course, they had no problem getting from Jackson to Seattle, parking Shimmer  and then battling hoards of infected. Can the writers  get a grip here? This juvenile fantasy of the central character...  a kid overcoming the odds and  battling bigger  or more numerous adversaries has been done to death! Can they not write something else?

Because Joel and Ellie making it across the country was so much more realistic?  If this concept is supposed to be rejected then there's no reason to watch the show at all because the video game is built on this premise.

[T Summer]

In the world they depicted of Cordecyps infecting people and making them so dangerous to regular humans and the way everyday life had broken down to a struggle for survival... yes a trip across the country would've been very dangerous for Joel and Ellie.

and Joel had wisdom and skills to impart to  young s1 Ellie. He also was a tall man which might serve as a deterrent if someone along the way had been of a mind to mess with Ellie.

Two small of stature  women with about 30 years less  life experience than Joel with his special skill set would've  been  more vulnerable and the trip even more challenging.

That's why it was  so ridiculous for Joel to tell Marlene it was all her when she marveled over the fact they got there.  She even stated her team lost members and she herself almost got killed making the trip.   I brought the convo up at the top of my post above  to say  that is the moment  I should've stopped watching.

So, I agree with you.

44 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

Because Joel and Ellie making it across the country was so much more realistic?  If this concept is supposed to be rejected then there's no reason to watch the show at all because the video game is built on this premise.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:32 AM by T Summer
removed phrase typed twice

[Zaffy]

 
FRAK YOU SHOWRUNNERS.
I am sick and tired of short seasons every 2-3 years and I do not care if their quality is good. 
Once there were shows with 20+ episodes per season that had great quality, even if there were some weak episodes among them.
Now it is like they do us a favor with 8 episodes or so. 
I would love some executive to explain to us the logic behind this.

I dunno and I do not care about Abby..even if I really like the actress.
She sadistically killed a man to death. She didn't just shoot him.
And she wonders "I let you live"? she is not only a sick person she is also an idiot. What did she expect? She herself was searching for vengeance for 5 whole years and now she is surprised? At least Joel did not kill her dad in front of her.
On the other hand, Ellie did the same to Nora.  So the show tries to tell us that Apocalypse will turn us all into monsters and those 2 are the same? Well, I have this tiny little feeling that the monster was there all along but finally got free. I cannot accept that Abby was just a sweetheart that only grief turned to a sociopath. 

As for logic in the script, usually there is none. Like them walking care free in the streets during daylight. But I guess they follow the game story and they can't do much about it. And let's not forget, a video game, no matter how well is written, is a different mean of entertainment than a TV show. 

see you in season 3, when Bella will probably be 40 and as grandma-Ellie will tell the stories to her grandchild.
 

[Pike Ludwell]

An episode where Ellie's illogic is looking more and more like insanity. Save the boy who was being beaten by many armed men, seriously outnumbering them? Certain suicide, but she was angry he stopped her.

She knows Joel, like a madman, killed many innocent people who were trying to save the world, including Abby's father.  This is an extenuating circumstance to make more sense of Abby's treatment of Joel. Yet that doesn't register with Ellie. She still wants to continue her now insane mission.

She felt no regret while beating that woman to get info.

A series where the main character goes insane and becomes evil.

But with the ending it looks like the writers were setting it up so we don't feel too bad about Ellie going away. We'll have a new lead character next season -- Loretta, from Justified!

Edited Monday at 02:23 PM by Pike Ludwell

[Constantinople]

Quote

I'm gonna be a father, which means I can't die

Jesse lasted longer than I expected after he said that.

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Jesse lasted longer than I expected after he said that.

yup I was expecting a bullet through the dome right then and there

[Zaffy]

I am not sure where to write this, since it contains no actual spoilers but I think it will be useful for people who haven't played the game so I post it here.
After finishing season 2 and since I had some unexpected extra spare time to kill today, I decided to watch a bit of the Gameplay walkthrough from both seasons. For those who are not familiar, it is watching someone playing the full game like a movie, sort of. There 30h of it for both parts, I watch a couple or so.
Because of the game high praising I was curious to see if the hype was justified.
Of course it is different when you devote a LOT of time to complete a game than just watching a walkthrough. 

I put my impressions in spoiler tags, however I do not really spoil anything, definitely not spoiling the plot.
 

Spoiler

I have mixed feelings. It is very impressive and cinematic. But also very dark, brute and violent and well... torture-porn. 
To be honest I do not get the hype, but my gaming experience is limited to very simple first person shooter that I play on line with friends to have fun with each other. 
Still, after watching the walkthrough I do understand some of the choices for the TV adaptation or some of its issues.
In conclusion, I do not think the game is  some kind of masterpiece that the TV show ruins, even if we are comparing two different mediums.

 

[marceline]

Jesse did so much speaking for me in this episode. Ellie has become absolutely loathsome. The way she just lost all concern for Tommy when she figured out Abby’s location was disgusting. The trail of bodies and broken lives because of this revenge quest is insane. Look at what she’s cost Jackson. Now not only is Joel gone but so is Jesse and probably Tommy. When she said “fuck the community” I wanted to scream. When she ended up on Scar Island I just kept saying, “Yeah, that’s what you get genius.”

Her killing Mel, Owen, and the baby was heartbreaking. I can’t imagine what it’s like to carry a pregnancy to term in the apocalypse. Ellie destroyed that.

Ugh. This is an awful note to end on when we have two years to wait.

[HerkyJerky]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

Are we ever going to learn more about this female savior the Seraphites are always invoking? It sounds like a deity they believe in. Have they ever said her name?

Do you know who she reminds me of (and this is an OLD reference), but Jasmine from Angel!

[iMonrey]

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I’m looking forward to spending some time with Abby, as Kaitlyn Deaver is a fantastic actress and I’m intrigued by the character.

I don't know Kaitlyn Deaver from Adam so I'm not particularly interested in flipping to The Abby Story regardless of who plays her.

Episodes like this just remind me I'm watching a video game. Are we to believe Ellie was able to swim to shore after capsizing during a raging storm at sea, fully clothed with a giant backpack on her back? OK then.

I don't mind the smaller stories about the individuals and their road trips but I'm not interested in gang wars. Whether it's community versus community or gang of thugs versus the rebels, it's been done to death. There's nothing new to tell. I don't care about the Wolves versus the Seraphites, I'm not invested in either and they're not even interesting as a backdrop.

I rewatched all of Season 1 in preparation for this season. I doubt very much I'd watch this season again before Season 3 drops, whenever that is. It's just not the same show anymore.

[MJ Frog]

 

7 hours ago, baldryanr said:

We've barely spent more time with her than Ellie has, but she's clearly going to be portrayed as more nuanced than a sadist.  It's almost as if most characters aren't supposed to be one-dimensional caricatures the audience should be completely for or against.

Clearly. That's the entire thrust of the show. Maybe I'll feel differently about Abby after next season -- they obviously want me to. I doubt I will, though, because the first thing I'm going to see when it comes to Abby will always be someone torturing another human being to death with no other end goal in mind than her own satisfaction. She drew it out and made it as painful as she could. Fuck you, Abby.

[mcree]

5 hours ago, Zaffy said:

Once there were shows with 20+ episodes per season that had great quality, even if there were some weak episodes among them.
Now it is like they do us a favor with 8 episodes or so. 
I would love some executive to explain to us the logic behind this.

The executives that make millions of dollars while renaming HBO Max to Max and then back to HBO Max?

The reason is that people binge and cancel. So doing smaller chunks means that you will/might resubscribe a few more times. Also if a chunk does not do as well, they can cancel mid-way through the story: something the audience also just loves.

 

6 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

She felt no regret while beating that woman to get info.

Regret usually happens later. Explaining that she "made her talk" and "it was easy", Dina responded that maybe Nora got what she deserved. Ellie then says, "Maybe she didn't", and goes on to reveal to Dina that Joel killed "everyone in the hospital" (not quite true), and that the doctor was Abby's father.

Dina has Ellie clarify that she did not know who Abby's gang was at the time of the killing, but that she did know what Joel did: news to Dina in the same way it was to the audience. We only found out that Ellie knew in the previous episode, four episodes after the event.

Dina does not take this late reveal well, and says they need to go back, since Ellie has no actionable info, just "whale" and "wheel".

[Pike Ludwell]

44 minutes ago, mcree said:

Regret usually happens later. Explaining that she "made her talk" and "it was easy", Dina responded that maybe Nora got what she deserved. Ellie then says, "Maybe she didn't", and goes on to reveal to Dina that Joel killed "everyone in the hospital" (not quite true), and that the doctor was Abby's father.

I know of course she felt a little regret later. But regret while beating the woman was also possible. After the first blow, she could have felt regret and stopped. But nothing held her back. In fact, she had a maniacal look of eagerness to do it. Buttressing my point that she had a burgeoning insanity. My terminology was fine.

Edited Monday at 07:22 PM by Pike Ludwell

[opus]

11 hours ago, Glade said:

and the showrunner has been saying 4 since s1, it's not new)

Yeah, I can see that now. Season 3, however long, from Abby’s POV. And season 4 (again, however long) picking up right before yesterdays fade to black.

[aghst]

It would be great if they filmed seasons 2 and 3 back to back.

Or at least they are ready to start filming season 2 soon.

[baldryanr]

8 hours ago, Zaffy said:

Once there were shows with 20+ episodes per season that had great quality, even if there were some weak episodes among them.
Now it is like they do us a favor with 8 episodes or so. 
I would love some executive to explain to us the logic behind this.

There was a reason why many "A-list" actors refused to do those 20+ episodes back in the day and stuck to movies - that's too much of a time commitment.  Pedro Pascal probably doesn't do season 1 if he's on the hook for that long of a season, and to be honest I don't think he wouldn't have agreed if Joel didn't die early in season 2.

[30 Helens]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Are we to believe Ellie was able to swim to shore after capsizing during a raging storm at sea, fully clothed with a giant backpack on her back? OK then.

Yeah. I can suspend disbelief with the best of them, but this was a bit much. Not to mention the boat, instead of being smashed to bits by the giant wave, managed to wash up on shore, right next to Ellie, dry and ready for re-use.

[paigow]

Scar Island problem can be solved by WLF destroying all the boats instead of a D-Day beach landing followed by stomping through enemy territory.

[aghst]

25 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

There was a reason why many "A-list" actors refused to do those 20+ episodes back in the day and stuck to movies - that's too much of a time commitment.  Pedro Pascal probably doesn't do season 1 if he's on the hook for that long of a season, and to be honest I don't think he wouldn't have agreed if Joel didn't die early in season 2.

I guess they could have added one or 2 more episodes of  Ellie on her Seattle quest.

Then show some of the clashes between the WLF and the Scars, maybe have larger scale battles, though maybe they don't have the budget for that after they spent it on the invasion of Jackson in episode 2.

Even if they showed those battles, it wouldn't involve Ellie, Dina, Jesse, Tommy as presumably they wouldn't want to get caught between the two forces.

So they could have shown more of Issac's world, him deciding that they had to either kill the Seraphites or be killed by them.  Also show more of  the  Seraphite leader, why she engenders such cult like following from a violent group of people, who will immediately kill anyone who's not part of the tribe.

[Glade]

10 hours ago, Zaffy said:

Once there were shows with 20+ episodes per season that had great quality, even if there were some weak episodes among them.
 

I disagree, those shows with 20+ episodes per year were produced with the primary goal being syndication: to pump out as much material as possible, with the utmost episodic filler thrown in, draining both actors and writers of vitality and running the original concepts into the ground.  I much prefer the well-written, short seasons we get instead.  It's fine for years to pass, because I do have a life. 

--

I think a lot of viewers need to look inside themselves and ask deeper question to figuire out why they can never empathize with young female characters, especially young women who are POC or LGBTQ, instead of always blaming it on everyone else.  It's not "wokeness" or "the writing."   

Edited Monday at 10:20 PM by Glade

[aghst]

Yeah these days, when I see shows with more than 10 episodes in a season, I have to really be convinced of the quality to commit to watching it.

There were a lot of filler episodes in those 22 or more episode seasons.  Networks wanted that many to cover like 7-8 months of the year from the fall to the spring, with reruns.  Studios or owners of the shows wanted that many for syndication sales, with 100 episodes being the magic number.

I think HBO shows had some success with much fewer episodes and that led to streaming services, when they began, creating 10 episode or shorter seasons.

Also back in the old days, you didn't have all the episodes telling one long story.  It was like self-contained stories.  There would be some plot arcs but they wouldn't last all 22 episodes.

Few shows are like that these days, a series of separate stories per episode.  Poker Face was like that in season 1 -- haven't watched season 2 yet.

 

 

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, opus said:

Yeah, I can see that now. Season 3, however long, from Abby’s POV. And season 4 (again, however long) picking up right before yesterdays fade to black.

A whole season of WLF vs Scars, and Abby flashbacks, no Ellie or anyone else from Jackson? Give me strength.

[Zaffy]

There were shows with 20+ episodes seasons that had great quality, even if some of the episodes weren't as good. I can name the X-Files and The Good Wife as examples.
But I can understand that the logistics are tough for so many episodes, why not 10 episodes per season and why not a season after just one year?
"Slow Horses" is a fine example of excellent TV  that delivers a season every year, ok 6 episodes, but that is like a standard in UK. 

Edited Monday at 11:03 PM by Zaffy

[PurpleTentacle]

They are really just copying the game 1:1, aren't they? Even though especially the story of the second game could have used quite a few changes. But then Druckman has been high on his own farts for years, so it isn't a surprise.

I was wondering what they were going to do with the rest of the season after this episode. Imagine my surprise when it was already over. Shows really get less and less episodes. Soon we'll be at 3 episodes a season...

[MJ Frog]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Soon we'll be at 3 episodes a season...

And soon after that we'll just be getting trailers but no episodes.

[opus]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Soon we'll be at 3 episodes a season...

Sherlock did that starting back in 2010.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 minute ago, opus said:

Sherlock did that starting back in 2010.

Technically true. Those were 90 minutes and basically TV movies though.

TLOU is a regular show with 45 minute episodes. That being at 7 episodes a season, after a two year break, at this point, is just crazy.

Even in the same show it goes down and down and down. Doctor Who is down from 13 episode seasons (2005 - 20013) to 8 episode seasons now...

[Starchild]

I don't necessarily mind the Brit TV model of short seasons, typically 6 episodes, usually all written by one person. The voice is consistent and the storytelling is tight, no filler.

And it's not uncommon for there to be inconsistent spacing between seasons. There are so many shows now that a new season of every show every year could end up being burdensome.

However, since Brit shows are often not 100% sure there'll be another season, they usually don't do cliffhangers. If American shows could just take that last step and tell a complete story in each season, where viewers could be satisfied with where things ended if there were no more seasons, then it could be really good.

[PurpleTentacle]

Also I want to add that they could have filmed Abby's story at the same time they could have filmed most of this season, since they barely overlap. So it would have been barely an inconvenience to make this a 14 episode season. Especially with two years prep time. But of course they didn't do that, because people stay subscribed longer if you string them along with 7 episode seasons that are two years apart...

[PurpleTentacle]

19 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

They're now saying they're going to need a FOURTH season to wrap this up.

Wasn't that clear? Considering how little they got done this season and how much story they still have to go, I'm not surprised. Of course you could trim this whole thing down by quite a bit and it would be better for it. But that's clearly not going to happen. Druckman thinks he made a masterpiece on the level of gods creation in the second game and isn't going to change a thing.

18 hours ago, millennium said:

And since I'm in a complaining mood, I'm tired of the ever-contracting number of episodes in series television now.  I still remember when a season was 22 episodes and shows had a new season every year.  The streaming came along and it dropped to twelve episodes.   Then ten episodes.   Then eight episodes.  Now it's six or seven episodes.   Plus, we're forced to wait 1.5 to 2 years for whatever spoonful of new episodes they dole out.  (Looking at you too, House of the Dragon).

15 hours ago, Zaffy said:

FRAK YOU SHOWRUNNERS.
I am sick and tired of short seasons every 2-3 years and I do not care if their quality is good. 
Once there were shows with 20+ episodes per season that had great quality, even if there were some weak episodes among them.
Now it is like they do us a favor with 8 episodes or so. 
I would love some executive to explain to us the logic behind this.

Ha, I made my mini rant about the ever shrinking episode count above before reading your guys posts. Glad I'm not alone.

15 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

She knows Joel, like a madman, killed many innocent people who were trying to save the world, including Abby's father. 

Just because they were "trying to save the world" doesn't make Joel a madman for killing the people who are trying to murder his daughter. Especially since they are clearly delusional and have no shot of actually saving the world and they were most certainly not innocent. Just a crazy cult trying to appease the gods with a human sacrifice, in the end...

6 hours ago, baldryanr said:

There was a reason why many "A-list" actors refused to do those 20+ episodes back in the day and stuck to movies - that's too much of a time commitment.  Pedro Pascal probably doesn't do season 1 if he's on the hook for that long of a season, and to be honest I don't think he wouldn't have agreed if Joel didn't die early in season 2.

Making more episodes doesn't suddenly lengthen Joel's story. It just means that you get through the whole story in less than 8 years (4 seasons, two year gaps in between seasons). Season 1 was pretty good with its 9 episodes. This season could have had Ellie's and Abby's story and been 14 episodes, instead of only having Ellie's story and being a measly 7 episodes.

4 hours ago, Glade said:

I think a lot of viewers need to look inside themselves and ask deeper question to figuire out why they can never empathize with young female characters, especially young women who are POC or LGBTQ, instead of always blaming it on everyone else.  

Because they are written by old, straight, white men who don't know the first thing about how to write a believable young, POC, LGBTQ woman?

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Also I want to add that they could have filmed Abby's story at the same time they could have filmed most of this season, since they barely overlap. So it would have been barely an inconvenience to make this a 14 episode season. Especially with two years prep time. But of course they didn't do that, because people stay subscribed longer if you string them along with 7 episode seasons that are two years apart...

I mean, the obvious complication with filming both stories simultaneously is that they would need two full crews, and thus not only twice the filming budget but also double the amount of qualified talent behind the camera. That would be harder than just shooting for twice as long, not easier!

I don't know why we would assume that the amount of story the producers can fit into one season is primarily an artistic choice on their part and not mostly the result of time and budget constraints beyond their control.

[30 Helens]

21 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I don't know why we would assume that the amount of story the producers can fit into one season is primarily an artistic choice on their part and not mostly the result of time and budget constraints beyond their control.

Yes, it’s important to note that there are many factors contributing to the length of a season (or a series). But in this case, I doubt HBO was tightening the purse strings all that much. This is perhaps the biggest hit they’ve had since Game of Thrones. (Although we all know how that turned out…)

I don’t mind shorter seasons. While some shows have excelled with 22 episodes, they are few and far between. And even those shows can’t escape a certain amount of filler. I want every episode to count, and I don’t necessarily want to commit to a prolonged watch. I have a life, and there are too many other things I’d like to see.

But what I CANNOT understand is a 2-year gap between seasons. There is no reason for it that proper planning and scheduling cannot overcome. I don’t know what bear trap of a mind can remember the events of a season that aired that long ago, but I don’t have one. Which is why I wait to watch most serialized dramas until after they’ve finished their runs. 

6 hours ago, Zaffy said:

"Slow Horses" is a fine example of excellent TV  that delivers a season every year, ok 6 episodes, but that is like a standard in UK. 

A perfect example of great pacing + consistent scheduling. And one of my absolute favorite shows. Anyone who needs something new to watch now that The Last of Us is over, go watch Slow Horses!

[mrspidey]

On 5/26/2025 at 9:38 AM, MJ Frog said:

 Also, we're supposed to see Abby and Ellie as two sides of the same coin, but I'm still not buying it, even after all that. Abby is a sadist, and a straight up killer. If the tables were turned, she wouldn't have been as affected as Ellie was by Mel's and Mel's baby's death.

Well that's the question, isn't it? You don't know how killing Joel affected her until you see her side. We know it affected Nora, because i don't think she was lying when she said she still heard his screams at night.

That's what the Abby part is for. For you to see wether she really is a sadist or just another traumatized victim, deserving a chance to do better.

Wether you care about her after that, is up to you, of course. But you should at least have all the information before you pass judgement.

[Zaffy]

It would be fun though if the subscribers in these platforms did their little rebellion, like "ok, I cancel my subscription, see you again whenever the season is out". I actually did that.  I know we should rebel for much more serious issues, but hey it is a start.

[maddie965]

If the next season is All About Abby, I'm out. Fuck that, not watching a show about a sadistic bitch who tortured and killed the best character ever. She can go to hell, as far as I'm concerned.