S06.E01: Vegas

[3 is enough]

I have been a fan of the show since day one, but the last few seasons have had so much unnecessary melodrama.  Too many crises for any family to handle and remain sane, IMO.

 

Adam and Christina had enough problems with Max but then they had a job loss, an unexpected pregnancy, starting a new business, cancer, and running for mayor and opening a school?  Seriously?  And why did they ever bother with the pregnancy storyline?  Once born the poor kid was promptly forgotten.

 

Julia and Joel always struck me as the sanest couple of the bunch.  So why did they have to break them up?  Wasn't the secondary infertility/adoption/switching roles as the primary breadwinner enough?  Unnecessary melodrama.

 

Sarah and Amber have been flaky from day one so no surprises there.

 

Crosby has settled down nicely. Who would have guessed?

 

Zeek and Camille- aside from the unrealistic house switch, their stories ring true, especially Camille getting fed up being taken for granted by everyone in the family.  Glad Zeek saw the light.

 

12 episodes to go.  How convoluted can it get before things start to get wrapped up?  I will keep on watching, but I hope I am not too disappointed.

[jester]

Amber's half assed painting with a paintbrush was pretty useless.

 

For real! Hattie using a roller to paint the same 5 inches of wall over and over again wasn't much help either. No wonder they were so far behind on getting the damn school ready with those two helping.

 

I really think Katims tries to cover to much of what he has dealt with in life with an son with aspergers into the show. Christina cannot change what doesn't fit about her son into normal society so she is going to do everything and anything she can to change the world around him. Adam never wants anyone to not be happy with him and wants to fix everything for everyone around him. He picks his battles with Max...and they seem to be very few given Max's behavior, and even when he does lay down the law with him it's for Christina's sake not really for Max. Which frankly Max does need to learn that sometimes in life you have to do things for someone

other than yourself. So small victories I guess. Maybe not.

 

Agree with everyone on the timeline stuff. Julia getting a little action is fine with me, but to be all adjusted like her new life is great and she is ready to emotionally move on? Hard to handle given how things left off last season. It would make more sense if it were a continuation of last seasons relationship with Zachary Knighton's teacher character. (Who Im guessing wasn't available to come back because of a show or something?) But some new guy at a new job (always a bad idea) that she's been in for maybe a month or so? No thanks. Last season had Joel so totally out of character to me, it really makes this whacked out timeline even more unbelievable.

[Shermie]

Quote - "You see, this would actually be an interesting twist. Everyone expects it to be either Zeek or even Camille, but one of the kids would be really heart wrenching and dramatic. Like, who would see it coming? Imagine someone like Jabbar or even Drew dying either through a horrible accident, or they get really sick. It's something that does happen almost as often as people dying from old age."

>Sorry, the quote function doesn't work on this computer. I really want to focus on the last sentence - a child dying happens almost as often as people dying from old age? Hardly. Everyone in old age dies. Everyone. Children dying is very rare.

>And I don't classify Zeek or Camille as being in old age anyway. They're what - late 60s? That's called a young senior nowadays, what with life expectancy at mid-80s. I mean, Zeek's mother is still alive. That said, a guy like Zeek having health problems is typical, given his crankiness (stress) and bad eating habits that we've seen. At least he's getting exercise and fresh veggies from his garden.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Shermie

[CheersEnthusiast]

I really enjoyed the difference between Haddie and Sarah in their reactions to Amber's pregnancy.  A huge excited smile from Haddie right off the bat then patting on the shoulder.  Then Sarah standing there with that look of shock then horror on her face.  Marvelous acting by both of them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I can't blame Sarah for not smiling and being happy about Amber's pregnancy. As someone who got pregnant when she was young, didn't get a college degree, and ended up being a single parent, she knows that Amber is following in her very difficult footsteps. Most parents want their kids to do better than they did and honestly, Sarah set the bar kind of low there but Amber still managed to make the same mistakes. Sarah has struggled to support her family and had to move in with her parents (meaning the burden of rent was gone for a couple of years) and even then she still wasn't rolling in piles of cash. I am sure that her primary concern is how Amber will be able to support herself and afford baby stuff, let alone 18 years of kid stuff. Is moving in with Camille and Zeke an option? Their new house in SF still looks pretty big. Does she even have health insurance through her job at the Luncheonette?

-as others said, what the hell kind of school is Snowflake Academy??? Is it for "gifted" kids? Bullied kids? Autistic kids? I'd love to hear the fake tuition for this fake school...39 kids with special needs and customized lesson plans/instructors in a downtown SF rehabbed lofty space...

Snowflake Academy is in downtown Berkeley which is why Christina had to ask Bob Little for help last season.

I can't blame Sarah for not smiling and being happy about Amber's pregnancy. As someone who got pregnant when she was young, didn't get a college degree, and ended up being a single parent, she knows that Amber is following in her very difficult footsteps. Most parents want their kids to do better than they did and honestly, Sarah set the bar kind of low there but Amber still managed to make the same mistakes. Sarah has struggled to support her family and had to move in with her parents (meaning the burden of rent was gone for a couple of years) and even then she still wasn't rolling in piles of cash. I am sure that her primary concern is how Amber will be able to support herself and afford baby stuff, let alone 18 years of kid stuff. Is moving in with Camille and Zeke an option? Their new house in SF still looks pretty big. Does she even have health insurance through her job at the Luncheonette?

-as others said, what the hell kind of school is Snowflake Academy??? Is it for "gifted" kids? Bullied kids? Autistic kids? I'd love to hear the fake tuition for this fake school...39 kids with special needs and customized lesson plans/instructors in a downtown SF rehabbed lofty space...

Snowflake Academy is in downtown Berkeley which is why Christina had to ask Bob Little for help last season.

I also wasn't sure who was living where with Hank and Sarah.... maybe I missed some parts, but do they live together? I can't tell one apartment from the other.

They are in separate places. Sarah is still at the same place as last season, the apartment building where she is the super.

As for Haddie going to Europe, if you went through a study abroad program at your school, it used to cost about the same as tuition and room/board. But since Haddie's tuition is so expensive, it's possible that it's slightly less expensive for her to go abroad. When my sister went, my parents took an extra loan (through the school) to cover some of the expense.

Edited September 26, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ShadowFacts]

 

Zeek and Camille- aside from the unrealistic house switch, their stories ring true, especially Camille getting fed up being taken for granted by everyone in the family.  Glad Zeek saw the light.

 

This has gotten me agreeing with others that Camille will be the one to check out, not Zeek.  Everyone can be all thankful that she had that dream trip to Italy, Zeek can be glad that he finally relented in moving the way she wanted, and Amber can exclaim that she is her role model for motherhood. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And then Amber can move in with Zeke to have convenient 24 hr free childcare!

I did like that moment in Vegas when Sarah asked him if he regretted selling the house or missed working on his cars in the driveway and he immediately said no without even hesitating. He IS capable of change! He seemed perfectly happy puttering around in the garden so I'm glad he hasn't been pouty or grumpy about living in their new place.

[izabella]

I would think Christina would be high on the Braverman Death Watch list, since she's already had cancer, and sometimes cancer does come back.  I don't think they'd go there because of Nora, but I could be wrong.

[Kara]

I also thought Zeke was a goner when he went to take a nap.  I however, was disappointed that he woke up.  He may be the most annoying to me, and his crappy attitude is probably the reason for the rest of the Bravermans' annoying dysfunction.  Does that make me a horrible person?

 

I was dreading Sarah's reaction to Amber's pregnancy.  I was older and educated with a good job when I became pregnant under similar circumstances.  It was hurtful that nobody was happy about my pregnancy.  I understand Sarah's concerns, just like I understood my mom's.  But at that point the ship has sailed.  There is a baby coming into the world, and being openly negative about it is hurtful, and doesn't help at all.  Sarah has every right to be worried, I would be too, but you suck it up and focus on the fact that there is a pregnant woman who needs positive support.  You act happy, even if you aren't.  My sister who was married got pregnant a few weeks after me.  She got cards and congratulations  from family.  I got crickets.  It sucks, and I will never trust some of my family members again because of their response.  So, I guess this was kind of personal for me.  But realistic, so I can appreciate that.

 

Also, Haddie was lovely, it took living across the country for a year to develop a functional personality, because she was one of the most whiny, annoying, selfish characters before she left.  Getting away from the co-dependence did wonders for her.  I want her to stick around, but am afraid she would fall back into bad habits.

 

I work in a kind of Snowflake Academy.  Although it is a public school, not a charter school created by very special parents.  But it is a small school (about 50 kids) for kids who cannot function in their normal public school.  It is for 7th-12th grades.  About 75% of the kids are there because of criminal activity.  The other 25% have various disorders, severe ADHD, learning disorders, extreme social problems, etc.  Left alone, I have no doubt that the criminal kids would bully the kids with social problems.  But we run an extremely tight ship.  The kids are never, ever left unsupervised.  When they switch classes, or even have to go to the bathroom, they have to be escorted by an adult.  Only 1 kid at a time is allowed in the bathroom (we wait outside while they go).  There is about a 3:1 student to adult ratio.  That is the only way to prevent bullying.  Because I am assuming the Snowflake Academy is for special needs kids, they most likely have funding for a lot of adults, but they have to be on it all of the time.   But, there is a huge range of abilities at my school, the classes are multi-age, depending on ability.  But, the goal is to get the kids to be able to function well enough to get back into their home school.  The truth is, we cannot offer great education, because of the differing abilities, the kids on the higher end don't get the opportunities they would get at a bigger school.  So, unless they are only offering spots to kids that are highly intelligent, they are going to have a difficult time meeting everyone's needs.  Of course, it is the Bravermans, so they will figure out how to operate an ethical, excellent charter school that can offer individualized education to every child, despite abysmal budgets for education.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Kara

[Mittengirl]

Just a few random thoughts-

I thought that the actress playing Haddie bore a striking resemblance to the actress that played Hayden's daughter on "Coach". I never noticed it before.

Wouldn't security have been on the scene within seconds of the Braverman screaming match at the casino?

While Max may have wanted to continue homeschooling, I can sure see why Kristina would not have wanted to deal with him at home all the time.

Do you think we will ever see any other school staff members? And what the hell is Kristina's position/title?

In the preview for next week Adam is screaming at Zeek to get the surgery. My mother is probably at least 10 years older than Zeek and I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate what kind of medical decisions she should make. Zeek is, by all accounts, mentally competent. Adam should calmly and quietly express his opinions, if asked, and then butt the hell out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The thing about bullying at Snowflake Academy is that there will have to be consequences if there is any bullying and you know Adam & Christina SUCK at that. They can punish a student for bullying but that means dealing with parents like Adam & Christina who believe that their precious little snowflake is never wrong. If there are repeated incidents, will they expel the student and lose the tuition they need to pay the teachers and rent? I hope there is a super bratty kid so they have to figure out how to deal with it. I don't actually want to watch it happen though because it would inevitably require lots of overtalking and interrupting accompanied by Adam and Christina's self righteous indignation and Max whining, "You promised this wouldn't happen! You are liars!"

[txhorns79]

I really enjoyed the difference between Haddie and Sarah in their reactions to Amber's pregnancy.  A huge excited smile from Haddie right off the bat then patting on the shoulder.  Then Sarah standing there with that look of shock then horror on her face.

 

I think you saw the reaction of experience versus the reaction of someone who hasn't really considered what this would mean for Amber.  I was with Sarah's reaction.  Amber's at a terrible point in her life to be a new parent.  The father is mentally unstable and doesn't even live in state.  While Amber has an excellent support system in place, she works a low level job and has limited prospects given her lack of education.  

 

I can't even begin with Snowflake Academy.  Adam and Kristina are horrible and so is Max.  He's an extremely rude, entitled kid while his parents just let him get away with it.  Heck, they built him an entire school just so he would feel better about himself, no matter how awful he is.  And where was Nora?  Has she gone feral and is being raised by the family dog?     

 

And I do kind of wonder why we are spending so much time dealing with Hank's issues? 

Edited September 27, 2014 by txhorns79

[BC Mama]

 While I understand Amber being annoyed about Haddie's complaints that she will have to take a train to see Lauren in Prague (and really, I do understand Amber's point of view because I am one of the few people I know who didn't go abroad during college because I couldn't afford to go either), calm the hell down there, girl. 

 

Maybe it's because I am in the midst of a not so easy pregnancy, and feel pretty worn out by a lovely but energetic toddler, but I totally felt Amber here. Pregnancy can be physically and emotionally draining, and your hormones are through the roof! If I was in Amber's place, I'd probably have just burst into tears.

 

Though I liked that time has moved on with the Braverman's, I didn't like not knowing the details--especially Julia suddenly having a job.  That was such a major storyline last year and suddenly she is in some office working doing something, and I want to know the deal.  

 

I was okay with this. Especially because Julia's new office seemed like a step down from her old one. 

 

I felt bad for Julia when she received that picture showing her siblings and her dad having fun in Vegas.  I know she seemed relieved that her dad was okay, but also probably sad b/c it wouldn't have taken much for Adam and Crosby to pick her up as well for the mini-trip.  I always forget, is she or Crosby the youngest?  I fell like the other three siblings treat her differently.  

 

Yup, she's the youngest! I think Adam and Sarah are close in age, there was an age gap, and then Crosby and Julia were born close together. I would be livid if I was Julia, and my siblings didn't keep me in the loop. It's her dad too.

[annlaw78]

Seriously, what is with Kristina's wig?  It is TERRIBLES.

 

Zeke and Camille have the most ridiculous retirement/empty nest house I've ever seen.  I'm in my 30s and it looks like too much effort!

 

Chambers Academy is as absurd as I thought it would be.  

 

I love how everyone in the family completely acknowledges the "qualified" v. "unqualified" siblings.  

Edited September 27, 2014 by annlaw78

[Gardencrown]

Every time they said "Chambers Academy" it made me stumble mentally, so sure I am that the actual name of the school is Snowflake Academy.

.

This show...so we're definitive on there being a death of a major character? I agree that Zeek is a red herring. And I guess I thought that Amber must have gotten pregnant earlier in her relationship with Ryan and was in denial...but if she's only at the end of the first trimester, maybe it was hospital sex (ew!) that got her pregnant. I love the actor (from FNL), but heavens, I really dislike the character of Ryan and don't want to see him back.

 

So Sarah finds out that she's going to be a grandmother AND a part-time sorta parent figure to a teenager? Time to grow up, Sarah. The death of the immature Sarah -- that would be a Parenthood death I could get behind!

[Ms5h]

Did anyone else flashback to Lorelei/Luke/April when now Sarah/Hank/Ruby is a messy issue (Hank now has an unexpected daughter to take up more of his time and bond with)? Granted the specifics are different, but he'll now have Ruby half time and she's been away for a awhile, so he'll need time to focus on her and maybe cool it with Sarah...

Edited September 27, 2014 by Ms5h

[Nire]

I loved the whole Max not wanting to go to the school they build for HIM!  I felt like finally some of Adam and Kristina's parenting style was coming back at them.  I also thought the Clue game with Julia and her kids was nice to see.  I hope now that everyone has moved on her kids will be a little less stressed and happier.  I also hope they don't completely drop storylines like Vincent's school struggles.  But I could see that one being forgotten or that he's awesome now because of Zeke.  Which I'm sure did help but it sounded like he was really far behind so it shouldn't be completely brushed over.

I couldn't believe how stupid Julia is to be sleeping with somebody at work.  Wasn't she pretty much unable to be hired anywhere because of a bad reference last season?  What does she think will happen if they have a bad break up or people see this as unprofessional, which it is pretty unprofessional.  You would think she'd be extra careful to hold onto her job now that she finally has one again.  At least Ed will hopefully be out of the picture!

I also loved the Haddie and Amber parts.  However I would like to know who was watching Nora while her mother was watching paint dry with her older brother, her father was driving to Vegas and her sister was bonding with her cousin?  Do they just keep a babysitter on hand at all times?  Perhaps the dog watches her like Peter Pan or something?  Did they drop her off with Jasmine?

I think Zeke will be the one to die.  Obvious or not it's my prediction.  If it's not him then it has to be Camille.  Anyone else I don't think will have the same toll on every member of the Braverman clan especially if it's Kristina or a non-Braverman.  Not to say everyone wouldn't be sad but I don't think it would have the same level of reaction from each member of the family as Zeke or Camille.  Or the family having to come together with a new patriarch/matriarch.  Which is partly why I think it will be Zeke because Adam is clearly ready to step into that role for his family.  I can't see Sarah as the new matriarch of the family.    

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Part of me felt bad for Amber because I've been in those situations where someone who has way more time/money/resources than I do is complaining about something that I can't even relate to, but at the same time I feel like STFU, Amber. She and Haddie have made different choices. I know people who have been in a situation where they knew the only way they could get the hell away from their insane families was to get good grades so they could get a scholarship. Haddie took that opportunity and ran with it. She had good grades and if her parents hadn't been able to pay for Cornell, she had good enough grades that she could have gotten a scholarship (if not at Cornell, at another school).

 

Amber, on the other hand, slacked and then suddenly thought maybe someone's friend could get her into Cal. When that didn't happen, she just gave up on college and went to work at the coffee shop. If she had gotten good grades and gotten into a college, Sarah would have done everything possible to help pay for her tuition (and obviously Drew was able to somehow afford Cal). So what I'm saying is that Amber could have been spending a semester abroad too, possibly even with Haddie, but she made different choices (like having unprotected sex with her mentally unstable boyfriend in his hospital room).

 

For the record. I'm not saying that college is the only choice or that it's the only way to get to Europe, but Amber was upset about something that could have been her problem too if she hadn't made a series of other choices. Hell, she could do what a bunch of people I knew did - instead of going through the official semester abroad program through their school, they stalked airline websites until they found a super cheap ticket to Europe, and then flew there with a backpack, a few outfits, and a camera (see also: Ken Adams when he was backpacking through western Europe - he was outside Barcelona hiking in the foothills of Mount Tibidabo!). And again, I say that as an adult who is well past college and still has never been to Europe. If you really want to go (to college, to Europe, whatever), you find a way.

[yankee1151]

Is it confirmed that there will be a death this season?  As I was reading all the posts about red herrings (and I agree, Zeke has to be one if someone is definitely going to die), my first thought was Amber dying in childbirth or Christina's cancer coming back and I see someone has mentioned both.  Oh, the possibilities.  It'll SUCK if it's Camille, hasn't she suffered enough?  I actually wouldn't care if they killed off Christina.  Is that bad?

 

I too had a hard time reconciling in my mind that the actual name of the school is not Snowflake Academy.  

 

I never posted in the Parenthood thread on Twop but I did read it.  I have to agree with everyone who hates the way Max is written (and even moreso, the way his idiot parents deal with him) because of Katims' agenda.  I have Aspergers, and I so wish I could look away from this steaming pile of propaganda because every scene with Adam and Christina talking to or about Max sends me into a rage.  Oddly, I have no issue with the way Hank is written, but I think the writers forgot he was supposed to have Aspergers too.  In fact, I'll be shocked if it's ever mentioned again.  And after all that money he undoubtedly spent on Dr. Pelican the autism guru, too.  What a shame.  I do think both actors (Max and Romano) do a good job with the shitty scripts they're usually given, though.  

 

Also, are we actually supposed to give a shit about Hank's magically aged daughter and her cartoonish teen angst?  Because I do not.  

 

Julia and Joel make me zzzzzz at this point... but I was always on Julia's side (not that she didn't fuck up, but they seemed to conveniently forget the bit about the mom with no boundaries kissing Joel in season one, amongst other things... and Joel was so completely out of character last season I couldn't sympathize with his whiny ass at all, but I digress)... so I'm glad Julia is moving on.  I will actually be annoyed if they reconcile, but they definitely will, so.  Back to zzzzzzzz.  I don't actually care how they get there, but I'm sure it will be extra angsty and be drawn out until the final scene of the final episode - probably at whoever's funeral.  

 

I think almost every poster before me addressed this, but it bears repeating - I can't with the Amber pregnancy timeline as compared with the rest of the cast timeline.  Especially with that goddamn school.  But then there is nothing realistic about that school so the less said about it the better I suppose.

 

I hated Haddie when she was actually part of the cast.  I love THIS version of her, though.  Hope she's around more (and hopefully her screen time comes at the expense of the majority of the rest of the cast).  Why the fuck do I watch this show?

[alexvillage]

I finally "watched" the show last night. Quotation marks because I think it took me less than 15 minutes, with all the FF. 

My theory about the messy timeline is that the writers just don't care anymore. They will just keep screwing it up.

Is the Academy a high school? Isn't Max supposed to be in High School now? Oh! Timeline.

I think that Amber might lose the baby (the death in the family) or one of the grandparents will die as she gives birth, then she will name the baby after him/her, and Ryan will show up and every Braverman will conquer their world, live happily ever after, making every other person in the universe miserable

Agree that it was too much time on Hank's problems, even the FF took a while.

Still dislike most characters. It would have been a better episode if they had showed Aida learning how to walk for the whole 40+ minutes

[marceline]

 

Wouldn't security have been on the scene within seconds of the Braverman screaming match at the casino?

 

Security would've been on Zeke the minute he walked back in there considering he'd been taken out of there in an ambulance just a few hours before. They'd have probably marked him as a con artist running a scam.

[txhorns79]

Is the Academy a high school? Isn't Max supposed to be in High School now? Oh! Timeline.

 

I think Max is supposed to  be in high school, but I would agree it is entirely unclear as to how that school even works beyond it being a taxpayer funded vanity project for Adam and Kristina. 

 

 

Oddly, I have no issue with the way Hank is written, but I think the writers forgot he was supposed to have Aspergers too.  In fact, I'll be shocked if it's ever mentioned again.  And after all that money he undoubtedly spent on Dr. Pelican the autism guru, too.  What a shame.  I do think both actors (Max and Romano) do a good job with the shitty scripts they're usually given, though.

 

I doubt the writers have forgotten.  I'm honestly frightened we are going to have some awful plotline where we learn the real reason Ruby is acting out is because she also has Aspergers, and she and Hank have a meaningful moment followed by Ruby's immediate enrollment in Snowflake Academy and series finale ending wedding to Max.   

[ShadowFacts]

Did anyone else flashback to Lorelei/Luke/April when now Sarah/Hank/Ruby is a messy issue (Hank now has an unexpected daughter to take up more of his time and bond with)? Granted the specifics are different, but he'll now have Ruby half time and she's been away for a awhile, so he'll need time to focus on her and maybe cool it with Sarah...

 

Oddly, I have no issue with the way Hank is written, but I think the writers forgot he was supposed to have Aspergers too.

I did flash to Luke and Lorelei.  This Ruby is a little more real than Luke's precociously sweet daughter, though.  I thought it was jarring that Hank was apparently totally without any interpersonal relating problems anymore.  He handled his daughter and ex-wife pretty darn well, I thought.  I think Romano is doing a good job here, but I think he is getting a little too much screen time.  Crosby and Jasmine were almost not there.  Which can be kind of a blessing.

[candall]

Well, I don't even know about posting this on my fun tv board, but it's a very tricky moment when someone announces her pregnancy, especially a teenager with tears running down her face.  Hugs, yes, but "Yay, you're going to have a baby!" might not necessarily be the best first reaction.

 

I can't stand Lauren Graham's breathless twinkle, and for once they had her dial back the flibbertygibbit.  I thought "dumbstruck" was an authentic way to shoot the scene. 

 

From watching "Pregnant at 16" and my own stupid (distant) relatives, I think too many teens simply get caught up and swept away by the tide when the whole family can only talk about the fun of a cute cuddly baby--as they help arrange the various government assistance programs, DOR high school and CSE the absent daddy.

 

Pausing.  Thinking.  Both good.

 

 

[txhorns79]

Well, I don't even know about posting this on my fun tv board, but it's a very tricky moment when someone announces her pregnancy, especially a teenager with tears running down her face.  Hugs, yes, but "Yay, you're going to have a baby!" might not necessarily be the best first reaction.

 

I think Amber is 20 or 21, but your point is well taken.  Even with the Braverman support system, a person in Amber's position is going to have a lot of difficulty raising a child on her own. 

[maraleia]

Amber isn't a teenager though. She is 21 but she does face some of the same problems that a teen would face when they find out they are pregnant because she doesn't make that much money and will have to rely on her family for financial support.

[annlaw78]

 

Part of me felt bad for Amber because I've been in those situations where someone who has way more time/money/resources than I do is complaining about something that I can't even relate to, but at the same time I feel like STFU, Amber. She and Haddie have made different choices. I know people who have been in a situation where they knew the only way they could get the hell away from their insane families was to get good grades so they could get a scholarship.

It's always struck me as a bit odd that for a family rolling in it like the Bravermans (and don't try to act like Zeke and Camille don't have plenty of dough, with their "downsizing" to a multimillion dollar multi-level, historic City mansion), and Camille's obvious desire to travel, that she'd never taken any of her adult daughters -- or, notably for this discussion -- her adult granddaughters on a "Grand Tour" to Europe.  I don't have nearly the cash that C/Z do, nor the artistic pretensions, but I'm planning on taking my niece to Europe when she's old enough.  

[alexvillage]

 

I never posted in the Parenthood thread on Twop but I did read it.  I have to agree with everyone who hates the way Max is written (and even moreso, the way his idiot parents deal with him) because of Katims' agenda.  I have Aspergers, and I so wish I could look away from this steaming pile of propaganda because every scene with Adam and Christina talking to or about Max sends me into a rage.  Oddly, I have no issue with the way Hank is written, but I think the writers forgot he was supposed to have Aspergers too.  In fact, I'll be shocked if it's ever mentioned again.  And after all that money he undoubtedly spent on Dr. Pelican the autism guru, too.  What a shame.  I do think both actors (Max and Romano) do a good job with the shitty scripts they're usually given, though.

Yes, the agenda. It does not help, does it?

I saw a little interview with Max. I don't like the actor and I am now totally biased because he does not know anything about Autism or what he knows is based on what Katims told him. Besides, teenager. Not a big fan of those (in general)

Ray Romano was good. A lot like some adults I know who were conflicted about getting a diagnosis late in life.

[trucka-bubba]

Well, every single storyline I hated last season has been extended. Whoopie!

 

But, of course, I'll stick it out til the bitter end. Hoping and praying Christina and Adam will have some kind of comeuppance for their terrible parenting of Max. I already know I'll be disappointed.

 

And if Joel and Julia don't end up back together, this will have to be my last Katims show. After Roswell, then the character assassinations on this; I don't think I can take any more!

[Fostersmom]

I think Zeke will be the one to die.  Obvious or not it's my prediction.  If it's not him then it has to be Camille.  Anyone else I don't think will have the same toll on every member of the Braverman clan especially if it's Kristina or a non-Braverman.  Not to say everyone wouldn't be sad but I don't think it would have the same level of reaction from each member of the family as Zeke or Camille.  Or the family having to come together with a new patriarch/matriarch.  Which is partly why I think it will be Zeke because Adam is clearly ready to step into that role for his family.  I can't see Sarah as the new matriarch of the family.    

 

I'm liking the Zeke is the red herring and it's Camille to be the one who dies. They could have her just not wake up one day, no illness, no accident, no lead up. It could be really interesting if done well. I'd like to see Julie step up to the matriarch role. Sarah is really not an option and Kristina's not a born Braverman. Plus, she can't even control her kid, she's not gonna control the rest of the clan. 

[dustoffmom]

 

And for the record, Amber's half assed painting with a paintbrush was pretty useless.

 

Well ElectricBoogaloo.....I have to disagree with you.  :)  As one who detests the look of roller painted walls let me say I have painted my entire house, top to bottom, more than once with a 2" brush.  Yes....I know, everyone thinks I am beyond insane.  LOL  But, as a result, I never noticed enough to give any thought that she was using a brush.  Doesn't everyone??

Beyond that, why, why do I keep punishing myself with this show?  I just finally watched this morning and then came read what all of you had to say.  The writers continue to think not a one of us have any concept of time, stories stall or jump ahead at a ridiculous rate, Max will annoy me now till they day I leave this Earth and why in the hell do I allow these people into my house?!  My theory on the red herring....Max is going to go completely out of control, kill young Nora and then attempt to kill his parents (idiots that they are).  I can daydream can't I?

[bybrandy]

I'm less concerned that nobody thought to pick up Julia as I am that nobody seemed to think Camille might want to rush to her husband's bedside, also that if anybody was going to get him to take his heath seriously it was going to be his wife.   

 

I want Joel to be my ex-brother-in-law.    Free housework   Free  to call Joel and ask him to block up or, or even to call Joel and ask him to block off some time.   Just wait until he . up and kidnap him.    Seriously

 

Haddie and Amber were the best part of the episode.    But then they would be.   

[yankee1151]

I doubt the writers have forgotten.  I'm honestly frightened we are going to have some awful plotline where we learn the real reason Ruby is acting out is because she also has Aspergers, and she and Hank have a meaningful moment followed by Ruby's immediate enrollment in Snowflake Academy and series finale ending wedding to Max.   

Wow, the fact that this reads like bad fanfiction, yet is TOTALLY plausible for this show tells you everything you need to know, doesn't it??  I seriously hope they don't go anywhere near there.  I think you might have given Katims an idea, dammit!

 

Also, didn't Max get all creepy with Ruby and insist that she date him in a previous season?  Because you know, people with autism are incapable of having boundaries or even understanding what they are.  UGH

 

Yes, the agenda. It does not help, does it?

I saw a little interview with Max. I don't like the actor and I am now totally biased because he does not know anything about Autism or what he knows is based on what Katims told him. Besides, teenager. Not a big fan of those (in general)

Ray Romano was good. A lot like some adults I know who were conflicted about getting a diagnosis late in life.Ugh

I don't know anything about the actor, but I can't fault him if all he knows about autism comes from Katims.  I mean, I guess do your research if you're playing an autistic character, but wasn't he like nine or ten when he started playing the role?  I'm sure he got lots of reading material from the organization that I refuse to name.  Ugh.  I also got a diagnosed as an adult, so I related to Hank in terms of his feelings, and I suspect Romano actually did some real research but who knows.  And while I don't hope they dwell on it, because again the agenda - I hope they don't just drop it because a diagnosis and ASD focused support (from actual experts and other autistics) can really help and he does seem to be in a better place now.  It would be nice to hear how he got to a place of acceptance and is now able to have what appears to be a healthy relationship (as healthy as it can be with a Braverman).  What he went through is actually a good thing (has been for me, anyway), but I'm sure this show (if they bring it up again) will use his Aspergers as an excuse as to why he can't effectively relate to his daughter (not the fact that she's a "troubled" teen whom he hasn't seen in months or maybe years, depending on what the wonky timeline is trying to tell us), and why the inevitable problems in his and Sarah's relationship will exist (the fact that Sarah is a huge flake will NOT be addressed).  On this show, autism = BAD, all bad.  So actually yeah, I hope they do leave it alone, because Hank seems to be doing just fine and the problems he is facing/will face seem pretty typical of ANY divorced adult with a teenager.    

 

I really hope Sarah doesn't make Amber's pregnancy all about her.  I can see her freaking out about being a grandmother and trying to talk her out of keeping the kid for that reason.  And while being a single parent is not ideal, Amber is way better off without Ryan.  I hope they don't bring him back.  Which means, of course they will.  And I'm willing to bet his bitchy unstable mom shows up too.  Fun!

[CheersEnthusiast]

Hmmm.  On my prior post I was merely commenting on the great acting in the two reactions to the pregnancy and the beauty of their juxtaposition in the script by the writers.  

 

But since the discussion's come up--fundamentally I thought both of them were equally emotionally valid and so a part of great drama.  To be happy about your cousins pregnancy at 20...good.  It shows empathy and a caring nature for another and their joy, or what you see as their joy.  To react in shock then horror is equally human, especially given what occured in the past.  All reactions and the variety of reactions make for great drama and allow us, in turn, to explore imaginatively our emotions and reactions through others. 

 

With that said, were I to put myself in Amber's shoes I would feel incredibly crushed by Sarah's reaction.  The way she broached the issue showed she already feared it and despaired of Sarah's response.  To be unable to receive--at least--a compassionate response from your own mother is trying...at best.  There is a time for laying aside your past hangups and the expectations of society for those you love.  For both Amber's good and--also in the long run Sarah's--Sarah's could do just that for Amber.   

Edited September 27, 2014 by CheersEnthusiast

[Cattitude]

I guess I have a different take on Amber. First I didn't get any kind of jealousy at Haddie about the trip to Europe, I thought it more Haddie was being so frivlous in her worry about seeing her girlfriend and Amber has a real life problem and couldn't take the conversation so she got up and left. Frankly if I was in her position I could see her point and she did leave she didn't keep snarking or anything, and when Haddie later in private brought up her feelings Amber and she had a great close cousin bonding moment. Second b/c I live in the south in a poorer state and work in healthcare that includes OB there are many many women who raise children in worst situations than Amber. Her financial situation didn't really even occur to me. I mean she has been on her own for years and I've never seen her "take" help from her much wealthier family like her mother has and she always manages to make it. Amber reminds me the most of Camille and I think Amber would do a good job as a mom. I mean Sarah was tied to a man with substance abuse most of Amber's childhood and both Amber and Drew are pretty decent kids considering. I think the position Amber is in is not something she can't handle and end up doing well at.

[alexvillage]

 

I don't know anything about the actor, but I can't fault him if all he knows about autism comes from Katims.

Oh, I don't fault the actor for that. IT is Katims/A$ bullshit. It has more to do with him being a teenager and ugh! Teenagers! I actually liked him in the first season.

Agree with the rest of your post

 

As for Amber, I didn't really pay much attention to the scene. What I saw was an overwhelmed teenager (even if she is beyond that chronologically) who cannot deal with - to her - small talk. This show is so bad in yet another area: they have all this characters, they are all Bravermans, or related to them, and they don't have friends! Amber had boyfriends, but I don't think she has a friend 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As one who detests the look of roller painted walls let me say I have painted my entire house, top to bottom, more than once with a 2" brush.

It wasn't the paintbrush itself but the way she was kind of dabbing at the wall in a half assed way. Snowflake Academy is opening ASAP! They need to paint faster so all 39 students will be high on paint fumes on the first day of school!

[yankee1151]

Aren't paint fumes bad for pregnant women?  That's actually all I could think of in that scene.  I had to go back and rewatch for the dialogue because I was so preoccupied by the fact that Amber shouldn't be in that room in the first place.

[Portia]

A lot of this is not very original, but . . .

 

As much as I wanted to kill Max, I was far more annoyed with Christina and Adam's constant tap-dancing to try to keep him happy. Clearly he didn't give two hoots about them creating that school for him, so IMO that kid needed a nice dose of "This is the school you are going to because we think this is the best choice for you right now and we are the parents and we've already been over this and shut up and grab your lunchbox right now." I'm not saying that parents shouldn't ever explain their reasoning or involve older children in some of the decision-making, but often they just just need to be parents, and they SURE don't need to spend all their energy trying to win their children's approval every second of the day. 

 

As much as I wanted to kill Zeek for being such a dick at the hospital, I was doubly annoyed with Sarah for being so useless. For many of us with aging parents there comes at least one moment where you have to say, "I love you and respect you as my parent, but right now I really need you to listen to me [or to this doctor] because we have your best interests at heart." I felt like the show really missed an opportunity to capture a very realistic part of life for middle-aged children of senior parents. Instead it was just same old Sarah, living down to everyone's expectations. I was especially shocked that she let him sleep alone when they got to the hotel; they could have gotten adjoining rooms with the door just cracked open so he wouldn't have to feel like he had lost all his privacy.

 

Ugh, I think Julia's new BF is slimy!  Especially at the office when he was wearing a suit with an open-necked shirt . . . I think it was lavender, maybe? To me he looked like some sort of gangster, not a professional person. 

 

I was glad to see Victor and Sydney smiling and not acting out. Poor Sydney doesn't look a bit older to me, but wow, Victor has grown up! 

 

Forgive me if I missed someone else's comment on this: Did the timeline at the very end of the episode bug anyone? Camille specifically mentioned that Zeek's doctor appointment was set for that afternoon, but AFTER they showed the two of them meeting with his doctor, Christina was greeting students at Special Snowflake Academy. This was the first day of school--not some sort of open house--correct? I know there's a lot of discussion about how schools should push the start time to later in the day, but are the special snowflakes being allowed to sleep through lunch?

 

Regarding Sarah's reaction to Amber's announcement . . . it's not like Amber was jumping up and down and squealing with glee, right? What if Sarah clapped and squealed "Yippeeee!" only for her daughter to  add, "And I'm not sure I want to keep it"? I think a measured pause might very well be the best response. Also, Sarah was very much entitled to be just plain stunned.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the last time we saw Amber and Ryan together, he was busted up in the hospital bed. They started getting amorous, and the show cut away. Shortly thereafter, she was doing a pregnancy test. Therefore I maintain that the show wants us to think Amber is carrying a hospital bed baby. And that is such a load of crap, I just can't even handle it. I mean, I know that most men have an extraordinary ability to get excited in all sorts of circumstances. But come ON, there's just no privacy in a hospital room! Medical personnel walk in and out all the time!  Stupid show.  

Edited September 27, 2014 by Portia

[txhorns79]

As much as I wanted to kill Zeek for being such a dick at the hospital, I was doubly annoyed with Sarah for being so useless. For many of us with aging parents there comes at least one moment where you have to say, "I love you and respect you as my parent, but right now I really need you to listen to me [or to this doctor] because we have your best interests at heart." I felt like the show really missed an opportunity to capture a very realistic part of life for middle-aged children of senior parents. Instead it was just same old Sarah, living down to everyone's expectations. I was especially shocked that she let him sleep alone when they got to the hotel; they could have gotten adjoining rooms with the door just cracked open so he wouldn't have to feel like he had lost all his privacy.

 

While I understand this view, so long as Zeek can care for himself, function under his own power and is mentally all there, he's an adult who is allowed to make his own poor, selfish choices.  Sarah can recommend a different course of action, but in the end, Sarah can't "let" Zeek do anything, because it isn't her decision as to what he can or can't do.   

 

 

Her financial situation didn't really even occur to me. I mean she has been on her own for years and I've never seen her "take" help from her much wealthier family like her mother has and she always manages to make it.

 

In fairness, Amber and Sarah's situations were very different.  Sarah had no support, no money and two kids.  She needed her parents' help.  Amber's responsibilities were much fewer and she didn't require anything like what Sarah might need to live within her means.  However, if Amber had a new baby, she would need to start "taking" just as much help as her mother did, likely more. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by txhorns79

[ShadowFacts]

 

As much as I wanted to kill Max, I was far more annoyed with Christina and Adam's constant tap-dancing to try to keep him happy. Clearly he didn't give two hoots about them creating that school for him, so IMO that kid needed a nice dose of "This is the school you are going to because we think this is the best choice for you right now and we are the parents and we've already been over this and shut up and grab your lunchbox right now."

 

Totally.  I was saying "Don't engage, don't engage, don't engage" to myself all through that scene when the contractor was present.  They should not be defending their actions to Max all the time.  That just teaches him to continue with the arguing.  They're trying to do what's best for him and they're the adults, period, full stop.

 

[BC Mama]

Aren't paint fumes bad for pregnant women?  That's actually all I could think of in that scene.  I had to go back and rewatch for the dialogue because I was so preoccupied by the fact that Amber shouldn't be in that room in the first place.

Only some type of paints are bad, but I know a lot of pregnant women avoid being around wet paint to err on the side of caution, or because it triggers their morning sickness.

[Portia]

While I understand this view, so long as Zeek can care for himself, function under his own power and is mentally all there, he's an adult who is allowed to make his own poor, selfish choices.  Sarah can recommend a different course of action, but in the end, Sarah can't "let" Zeek do anything, because it isn't her decision as to what he can or can't do.   

You're correct, of course, that "let" isn't the appropriate terminology. But I was frustrated that she wasn't taking a more assertive stance with him. I couldn't help but think think that he might actually listen to her if she just demanded to be taken seriously as an adult. Probably very naive on my part.

[Cattitude]

While I understand this view, so long as Zeek can care for himself, function under his own power and is mentally all there, he's an adult who is allowed to make his own poor, selfish choices.  Sarah can recommend a different course of action, but in the end, Sarah can't "let" Zeek do anything, because it isn't her decision as to what he can or can't do.   

 

In fairness, Amber and Sarah's situations were very different.  Sarah had no support, no money and two kids.  She needed her parents' help.  Amber's responsibilities were much fewer and she didn't require anything like what Sarah might need to live within her means.  However, if Amber had a new baby, she would need to start "taking" just as much help as her mother did, likely more. 

 

I'll agree to disagree. Amber has shown herself to be both resilient and capable of handling most situations handed her eventally though maybe not in the best way. While of course she will need some emotional support and want some help with baby as far as childcare b/c they are family and would want to keep the baby for her sometime. But she is more than capable of getting the things a baby needs on her own and with the help of WIC and possibly HUD she could very much afford one child on her own. Amber has a job, an apartment, a car, close family who love her and manages to feed and cloth herself.  I still fail to see why she isn't capable of managing one baby herself?

[txhorns79]

But she is more than capable of getting the things a baby needs on her own and with the help of WIC and possibly HUD she could very much afford one child on her own.

 

I'm not sure I follow this.  WIC is a public program that would supply a new mother with money for food and other supplies for her baby.  HUD is a government agency that could provide Amber with rental assistance or other subsidies.  I don't see how you can be taking public money while simultaneously claiming to be able to "afford" to take care of your kid.  I don't fault someone for needing help, but I don't think you should plan your family around the idea that you can rely on taxpayers to help subsidize day to day costs associated with your children.  Though I do realize that taxpayers must have shelled out a few million all so Max can literally have a school built just for him.  

 

As for Amber, it's not that I believe she is incapable of caring for a baby.  My thought is more that she should exercise her options and seriously consider where she is at this point in her life, and whether raising a child right now is a good decision for her.  

[Cattitude]

I'm not sure I follow this.  WIC is a public program that would supply a new mother with money for food and other supplies for her baby.  HUD is a government agency that could provide Amber with rental assistance or other subsidies.  I don't see how you can be taking public money while simultaneously claiming to be able to "afford" to take care of your kid.  I don't fault someone for needing help, but I don't think you should plan your family around the idea that you can rely on taxpayers to help subsidize day to day costs associated with your children.  Though I do realize that taxpayers must have shelled out a few million all so Max can literally have a school built just for him.  

 

As for Amber, it's not that I believe she is incapable of caring for a baby.  My thought is more that she should exercise her options and seriously consider where she is at this point in her life, and whether raising a child right now is a good decision for her.  

 

I don't want to stray too far off topic, but I don't think Amber "planned" to get pregnant, nor is she the first mom to become one that way. Certainly she should use as little public help as possible, but fact is she has a job and had managed to make it on her own for years now. My personal opinion is that I'd rather someone like her be using the resources set up just for people like her than someone who expects the government to totally support them forever and doesn't even try to make it on their own. I would even rather see her do this than move in with Zeek and Camille or Sarah. Every job Amber's ever had she has excelled at and I have faith she could eventally make a decent living even without college. She is so good with Max she could even be somekind of aid for special needs kids. I think Amber has lots of options.

[backformore]

Every time they said "Chambers Academy" it made me stumble mentally, so sure I am that the actual name of the school is Snowflake Academy.

 

Yes, on TWOP I referred to it as the Braverman Academy for Special Snowflakes, and that's the name, as far as I'm concernd (Snowflake Academy for short). 

It is ridiculous that they got a charter school together, all the regulations, approvals, tax money, etc,  in this amount of time.   That does not happen.  I still don't understand the whole concept of the school - who decides which kids are admitted?  What grade levels are being taught?   High schools need teachers who are specialized in various areas.  With less than 50 kids total, how in the world are they able to afford math, science, literature, history, etc. teachers?  If the kids are like Max, some might be advanced in different areas.  You can't just have one classroom teacher who is knowledgeable in all things. 

[alexvillage]

 

As much as I wanted to kill Zeek for being such a dick at the hospital, I was doubly annoyed with Sarah for being so useless. For many of us with aging parents there comes at least one moment where you have to say, "I love you and respect you as my parent, but right now I really need you to listen to me [or to this doctor] because we have your best interests at heart." I felt like the show really missed an opportunity to capture a very realistic part of life for middle-aged children of senior parents.

I get what you saying but I disagree. This would work for the show, because we are watching the characters, we know how they think, who they love. It might be true for some of us, maybe even most of us. But it is not realistic. In reality, there is a lot of abuse and neglect, children just saying they care about the parents and not really showing, or worse. I am sure the writers did not think of this scansion, as a PSA moment, but I like when I see self-determination, even if from an annoying character that I don't care a bit about.

 

It is kind of the same with Max. He is an awful brat, but he is exercising independence. He is saying that he does not want to go to a school and he gives an excellent reason for that. He said that he could learn better, get his work done and go to Hank's to work on something everyone agrees he is good at. I am sure the writers just wanted to show his brattiness, but as much as I dislike Max, I have to agree with him.

 

I am going to say something I said already, but it was on TWoP forum, so:

This show's idea of autism HAS to be that Autistics are ALWAYS a burden, no matter how much the parents love them or how "awesome" they are

This show's idea of parents of Autistic kids is that they HAVE to be ALWAYS heroic, doing superhuman things to give their children the best, STILL getting crap from them, because Autistics do not have empathy.

This is Katims' show, this is Autism $peaks message, and they haven't changed a bit since they started, it all get much worse with eugenicist talks and open letters of hateful rhetoric directed at Autistics. So, the show is the "light" version of how they really think

[ShadowFacts]

 

As for Amber, it's not that I believe she is incapable of caring for a baby.  My thought is more that she should exercise her options and seriously consider where she is at this point in her life, and whether raising a child right now is a good decision for her.

 

This has me thinking, would the show have Amber go the adoption route?  I kind of think not, because Amber has been shown to be capable and nurturing, albeit with her mother's proclivity to try and fix men.  But they've done abortion, they've done failed infant adoption and difficult older-child adoption, maybe Amber considers it and rules it out.

 

It is kind of the same with Max. He is an awful brat, but he is exercising independence. He is saying that he does not want to go to a school and he gives an excellent reason for that. He said that he could learn better, get his work done and go to Hank's to work on something everyone agrees he is good at. I am sure the writers just wanted to show his brattiness, but as much as I dislike Max, I have to agree with him.

 

Max may be right about his learning style and his comfort level with his job at Hank's, but the greater good for him may be to try to function in settings he doesn't find so comfortable.  Hank and Adam and Kristina won't always be around for him, so daily practice in environments he will face for the rest of his life is probably not a bad idea. 

[alexvillage]

 

Max may be right about his learning style and his comfort level with his job at Hank's, but the greater good for him may be to try to function in settings he doesn't find so comfortable.  Hank and Adam and Kristina won't always be around for him, so daily practice in environments he will face for the rest of his life is probably not a bad idea.

The idea is may be not bad, the way they did it was, and Max showed that he can rationalize well and present his point of view - which made sense to me. 

 

He was somewhat traumatized by the bullying, at least that's the reason they gave us, and this was addressed with his parents deciding that, instead of fighting against bullying (even when frustrating and sadly ineffective), they should just build a fort and protect him from this.

There are testimonials from Autistic adults saying that the "functioning" in settings that are they daily exposed to is a very personal thing and there is no recipe for that. Each person develops their own way, based on their own experiences.

 

I do think that inclusion should be the default for disabled children, but sometimes it is not the ideal for some of them.