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S01.E08: The Man Who Kept the Secrets

AnimeMania

By AnimeMania
in Paradise (Hulu)

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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

The construction crew was brutally sacrificed. For me, this is the highlight of this episode. 😢

Trent the librarian should’ve killed Sinatra and her lackeys, not Cal.

Quote

“Probably should’ve just let me have the Wii.”

Jane is diabolically cunning — the most dangerous creature in Paradise.

I was wrong about Gabriela being the bad guy. But I was right about the 6-digit code on the ciggy and Cal hiding the transcripts in the library.

Am not a fan of sci-fi. It’s the genre that I’ve always avoided. So I appreciate that Paradise tackles the sci-fi thing without going overboard.

  • Like 4
DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

6 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

The construction crew was brutally sacrificed. For me, this is the highlight of this episode. 😢

Trent the librarian should’ve killed Sinatra and her lackeys, not Cal.

Jane is diabolically cunning — the most dangerous creature in Paradise.

I was wrong about Gabriela being the bad guy. But I was right about the 6-digit code on the ciggy and Cal hiding the transcripts in the library.

Am not a fan of sci-fi. It’s the genre that I’ve always avoided. So I appreciate that Paradise tackles the sci-fi thing without going overboard.

Trent should have killed her instead. But he doesn't know she is behind it all. He assumes it's all the formal government led by cal. 

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

7 minutes ago, General Days said:

I'm so glad Cheese Fries Waitress ended up mattering. I thought she would (ditto Trent the librarian), but I was worried she wouldn't. 

Does anyone know if Cal flashbacks will still be part of season two? I've gotten more and more into his Gen X power ballad moments. I'd like to keep James Marsden around. 

I hope so

But they ruin the songs with their slowed down mopey sad redone versions. 

  • Like 3
nilyank

nilyank

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Trent should have killed her instead. But he doesn't know she is behind it all. He assumes it's all the formal government led by cal.

He was in the scene  when she gathered the scientists and told them to build her city. The crew worked for Cal’s dad but I don’t think Cal was president when Sinatra started building her city.

 

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General Days

General Days

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

But they ruin the songs with their slowed down mopey sad redone versions. 

 

Agreed. But I liked Cal's bathrobe strut to the strains of Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again."

Also, so many shows (especially on streaming platforms) do that now -- use a wimpy (read: cheap) cover of a classic, to save on licensing fees, that I'm kind of used to it. 

DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

1 hour ago, General Days said:

 

Agreed. But I liked Cal's bathrobe strut to the strains of Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again."

Also, so many shows (especially on streaming platforms) do that now -- use a wimpy (read: cheap) cover of a classic, to save on licensing fees, that I'm kind of used to it. 

You're right they do it a the time. And I hate it. I think they believe they are being artistic somehow though rather than to save money. But most of them suck.  I mentioned it in the pet peeves thread

 

This is a jj Abrams classic move too. He did it often at the end of alias.  Not classic songs but end episodes with some dreary schmaltzy slow song.  

I love the show though. It's my one annoyance with it.  

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

He was in the scene  when she gathered the scientists and told them to build her city. The crew worked for Cal’s dad but I don’t think Cal was president when Sinatra started building her city.

 

It was 3 years i thought the time frame. I thought he was president then.  

gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I didn't think anyone could make me hate Gerald McCraney, but here we are. That flashback to him stomping on his son's heart just gutted me. I don't know if we were supposed to feel sympathy or understanding for Sinatra, but I was only sorry crazy(er) lady didn't shoot her in the head.

I haven't felt this jazzed for season one of a show since, probably not coincidentally, the first season of This is Us. I'm the viewer that watches 90% of my shows while doing something else. This kept me glued to the screen the whole time.

I also may have a bit of a crush on Cal Bradford.

  • Like 3
marinw

marinw

12 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Jane is diabolically cunning — the most dangerous creature in Paradise.

I was wrong about Gabriela being the bad guy. But I was right about the 6-digit code on the ciggy and Cal hiding

Jane may be my favourite character besides X on this show. Do not f*ck with Holly Hobbie.

I remember your prediction! Great call.

This episode was exquisite.

  • Wink 1
circumvent

circumvent

So, the workers who built everything to save the lives of a few privileged people got screwed. Who would have thought that could happen 🙄

I know the librarian killed the real librarian and his wife is meanie mean but I am team fake librarian. He is the only one who saw the truth and did something. His speech of "bloated houses for the privileged few...start over...a better place. it is all the same, the American fucking dream". That's what I was waiting for. I can almost forgive all the bad/incomplete/confusion writing I complained about in the other episodes. Revolution! It looks like Jeremy is going to be the new agitator. I can even like the show now, and watch the next season.

I don't really care about Xavier and his journey. Too hero-y. He should have grabbed a friend to go with him.

Jane is a psychopath. Gabriela is just Meh. Not sure if the character is needed. I also think that Sinatra is done as a character. If the writers manage to make her relevant without resorting to cliches and completely absurd plots I will be extremely surprised.

Now, the billionaires losing it and attacking each other made me have fantasies of Musk/Zuck/Bezos/Cook and the rest of the cabal eating each other in, hopefully, a near future. All with Orange juice, if you get the idea

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ahpny

ahpny

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't know if we were supposed to feel sympathy or understanding for Sinatra, but I was only sorry crazy(er) lady didn't shoot her in the head.

But I was unclear about what injury she sustained and why Xavier didn't just shoot her in the head and off her completely. She's now in no condition to help him find his wife, so what good is she to him anyway?

Sinatra is evil, but not a sociopath. She recognizes the difference between good and bad and understands, belatedly and to some extent, that she's done lots of bad. Not that that stops her from doing more bad, but she does see reality.

Jane on the other hand appears to be a full blown sociopath, Wii loving though she may be. There's no other explanation for her last speech with Presley, whom she not only honeytrapped, but for no sane reason decides to make sure he died knowing he'd been played and betrayed. Conveying that knowledge served no purpose other than filling a sadistic desire to cause maximal pain as he died. That's a sociopath.

  • Like 1
gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

26 minutes ago, ahpny said:

But I was unclear about what injury she sustained and why Xavier didn't just shoot her in the head and off her completely. She's now in no condition to help him find his wife, so what good is she to him anyway?

Unless I'm misremembering, she was shot in the chest by Jane, while Xavier had the gun to her forehead. Jane then told Sinatra she did it because X was going to 'blow her head off' and she was no good to (her) dead.

I'm glad that X didn't kill her in cold blood, though I don't know if he would've pulled the trigger had Jane not shown up when she did. Regardless, Sinatra was never going to help X, and he knew it. She'd already signalled her henchmen to kill him.

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Paloma

Paloma

8 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

But they ruin the songs with their slowed down mopey sad redone versions. 

I really wish they had used the original Phil Collins version of "Another Day in Paradise"--that version is so much more haunting than what they used.

6 hours ago, nilyank said:

He was in the scene  when she gathered the scientists and told them to build her city. The crew worked for Cal’s dad but I don’t think Cal was president when Sinatra started building her city.

They also showed Trent with his wall of clippings that included stories and photos of Cal and his dad, which made me think that Trent's rage should have been directed at Cal's dad (since the crew worked for him) at least as much as at Cal. But I can't remember if the wall had any stories or photos of Sinatra with Cal and/or his dad.

DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

6 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

This was a great series!  I know it got renewed for season 2, but I’m cool with it being a one and done.  
 

I am a bit confused tho about the cheese fries waitress.  How was she involved? She told Collins “he made me do it.”  Was it that the project manager/fake librarian made her go with him as his “wife”?  

Yes essentially.  She's the one he sees in the parking lot eating in her car on The Day.  He takes her with him as hhlis wife. 

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

So were Adam and the librarian just friends or boyfriends?  

Also 

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I didn't think anyone could make me hate Gerald McCraney, but here we are. That flashback to him stomping on his son's heart just gutted me. I don't know if we were supposed to feel sympathy or understanding for Sinatra, but I was only sorry crazy(er) lady didn't shoot her in the head.

I haven't felt this jazzed for season one of a show since, probably not coincidentally, the first season of This is Us. I'm the viewer that watches 90% of my shows while doing something else. This kept me glued to the screen the whole time.

I also may have a bit of a crush on Cal Bradford.

You never watched Gerald mcraney in deadwood I assume. 

And this role is essentially identical to his role in house of cards 

  • Like 1
TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

The way I did not suspect the librarian at all!, OMG. The fact that Cal died not because of some grand conspiracy by Sinatra or Gabrielle but because the construction manager was deservedly upset over the deaths of his friend and workers who weren't allowed a spot in the place they helped build. Damn.

Also Jane really likes that Wii. Wow! I legit cackled when they showed her playing it after the shot of Sinatra in the hospital. I'm actually happy she wasn't killed off completely but she has lost her power spot. Will the new President be able to step up? Sinatra kept thinking she had control over lethal killers like Jane and Billy and she really didn't.

I guess it's time for the president's son to step and lead a new rebellion in the Paradise.

I'm so happy we already know there's a second season. It would have sucked for that to be a cliffhanger ending of Xavier going out to find his wife and to know exactly what's going on out there.

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circumvent

circumvent

3 hours ago, nilyank said:

I do wonder how X is able to fly the  plane that was sitting in that hangar for years. He didn't even check to see if he had enough fuel to fly out of there.

I also wonder why he just left without a second thought just because Sinatra had a recording that could be fake. That's one reason I don't care for his journey and did get interested in the show, on this last episode, because of the - maybe - imminent full blown rebellion in Paradise. Focusing on Xavier's search would be a waste of potentially good story plots, imo. It's been done many times in many shows and movies. 

marinw

marinw

(edited)
9 hours ago, Paloma said:

I really wish they had used the original Phil Collins version of "Another Day in Paradise"--that version is so much more haunting than what they used.

I'm listening right now! Thank you for the recommendation. Was that the version on Cal's Mixed Tape?

CMIIW, but were all the siong covers this season done with female artists? I'm not saying that;s good or bad, just interesting.

Edited by marinw
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Haleth

Haleth

I’m glad Sinatra is not dead since she’s such an interesting nuanced character. Once she recovers she may find it hard to regain power though.  Maybe Sinatra and (shoot, what’s her name?) Robertson(?) team up against the billionaire cabal and Jane next season. Speaking of Jane, I thought there must be some incriminating evidence on the Wii, but no, she’s just nuts.

My jaw was on the ground for most of Trent’s story. Nice guy turned raging psychopath. Poor Cal, he was a puppet and didn’t deserve to die. Trent went after the wrong guy.

I’m not sure about X leaving his family and venturing into the world. When a character is removed from the rest of the cast that storyline always drags everything down. Hope he finds his wife in the first epi and they scoot back to Paradise immediately. 

53 minutes ago, marinw said:

Was that the version on Cal's Mixed Tape?

Yes. Phil Collins. I noticed when he added it. He had several of the songs used in the show on the cd. 

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Paloma

Paloma

25 minutes ago, marinw said:

I'm listening right now! Thank you for the recommendation. Was that the version on Cal's Mixed Tape?

I didn't see the artist's name when they were showing the titles on the mixtape, but given Cal's love for music of that era as well as the likelihood of the library keeping classics, I'm sure that Collins' version is what he would have picked. 

7 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

So were Adam and the librarian just friends or boyfriends?  

Although I read one recap that said they were lovers, I don't agree. It was clear that they became friends after they shared Adam's lunch and then Trent brought Adam spices for cooking that Adam hadn't been able to find. After Trent reported that his crew was getting sick and then was kicked out, with a warning from the architect about something catastrophic coming, he became obsessed with finding out what the project really was and what was coming. I think the reason he kept trying to contact Adam was because he was the crew member he knew best and trusted, not because Trent was in love with him. But I had to suspend disbelief that those in charge of the project would have even allowed Trent to make contact with Adam or any other crew member after Trent was expelled. Maybe they actually didn't allow this--it seems none of Trent's calls or letters were answered until the one call from prison when Adam told him to stop calling. I can imagine someone standing over Adam threatening him if he revealed anything. 

6 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

The fact that Cal died not because of some grand conspiracy by Sinatra or Gabrielle but because the construction manager was deservedly upset over the deaths of his friend and workers who weren't allowed a spot in the place they helped build.

Although the workers probably all eventually died from the substance they were inhaling (and that the architect knew about), I wonder if Sinatra and Cal's father planned to have them killed anyway when their part of the project was finished. Even though the workers were apparently told that this was a recycling project, it would have been harder to keep the secret if they were allowed to go back to their homes and talk to outsiders. This also makes me wonder if these workers were the ones who built the city or if they brought in a different crew for that. I think building the city (the infrastructure, the homes, etc.) would have needed workers with different skills than Trent's crew had. In any case it's likely that the Trent's crew would have been too sick to also build the city over the next few years. But anyone who literally built the city certainly couldn't be allowed to leave since they knew too much about the real project, so were those builders given homes in the city or were they murdered after the work was done?

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marinw

marinw

12 hours ago, circumvent said:

It looks like Jeremy is going to be the new agitator.

Jeremy is showing more aptitude for leadership than Vice President Guy (Can't remember his name). I can see him as the future President/Mayor/Whatever of Paradise.

12 hours ago, circumvent said:

His speech of "bloated houses for the privileged few...start over...a better place. it is all the same, the American fucking dream". That's what I was waiting for.

Yes. And the cars. Those huge cars. There is NO reason to have those in a climate-controlled environment.

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Paloma

Paloma

33 minutes ago, marinw said:

And the cars. Those huge cars. There is NO reason to have those in a climate-controlled environment.

And most cars only last a couple of decades, and then only with regular maintenance and some repair. Did they stockpile auto maintenance and repair parts, and what will they do when the cars eventually wear out? I know these questions are not relevant to the current plot, but world building in sci-fi and dystopian stories is very interesting to me. I'd also be interested in having the story go forward a few decades to see the inevitable changes and problems as the current adults age and need younger people to take over important functions, and as the infrastructure, homes, and supplies deteriorate and diminish. But I guess that would need to be a different show. 

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Paloma

Paloma

One thing that confused me about Cal making the mixtape for Jeremy: Was the mixtape just music, or did it also contain the secrets in a verbal message from Cal? In the beginning of the tape Cal said something about burying the secrets and urged Jeremy to change the things he didn't like, but we didn't hear Cal actually reveal any secrets in the mixtape (though we didn't hear anything except the beginning of the tape, so he might have). Maybe the titles of the songs were meant to be clues to the truth of Paradise?

In a previous episode Jeremy and Presley learned the secrets from the tablet and were already sharing them before Jeremy received the mixtape (which he did not know about until Xavier found it in this episode). So the mixtape may have just been a sentimental message for Jeremy, not including the actual secrets.

Because Cal wrote the number on the cigarette and marked an X on the cigarette pack that led to Xavier finding the transcription from the tablet in the book about Peter Lawford ("The Man Who Kept the Secrets"), I assumed that Cal intended/hoped that Xavier (not Jeremy) would find the secrets in the book. 

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marinw

marinw

(edited)
13 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm glad that X didn't kill her in cold blood,

X did shoot two other agents. I think non-fatally, like in the shoulder or something? He didn't face any consequences. X is a good, even heroic person, I don't want him to have moral injury of killing two guys who were just following orders.

Edited by marinw
Paloma

Paloma

Did anyone else notice that when Jane was holding Presley in the apartment, Jane was wearing a sweatsuit with the number 45 on the top? And the sweatsuit was orange, or sort of orange? I know we aren't supposed to have political commentary here, but I'm hoping it wasn't just a coincidence that Sinatra's insane assassin was wearing that.  

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Haleth

Haleth

(edited)
1 hour ago, Paloma said:

 

One thing that confused me about Cal making the mixtape for Jeremy: Was the mixtape just music, or did it also contain the secrets in a verbal message from Cal? In the beginning of the tape Cal said something about burying the secrets and urged Jeremy to change the things he didn't like, but we didn't hear Cal actually reveal any secrets in the mixtape (though we didn't hear anything except the beginning of the tape, so he might have). Maybe the titles of the songs were meant to be clues to the truth of Paradise?

 

Cal said he went to the library to make the tape and bury secrets, two separate things. That’s when he hid the book. It wasn’t meant as a clue for Jeremy, the book wasn’t left for Jeremy to find. (Kudos to the folks who recognized the number as a library book number.)

About replacement parts, I wonder if the plan was to have people periodically go topside to scrounge for parts and materials?

Edited by Haleth
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marinw

marinw

(edited)
2 hours ago, Paloma said:

And most cars only last a couple of decades, and then only with regular maintenance and some repair.

I'm very biased here, but bicycles are the ideal vehicle for this situation. An analog or even electric an bike can outlast a car. For those who can't or don't want to walk or bike you can have electric golf carts.

In terms of the class structure, Sinatra was being served by a maid!! I wonder how she got on the approved list. Or if Sinatra snuck her in because god forbid Sinatra would have to make her own coffee.

Coffee! Hope they can grow some. I can live without alcohol, but coffee is non-negotiable.

Edited by marinw
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

28 minutes ago, marinw said:

X did shoot two other agents. I think non-fatally, like in the shoulder or something? He didn't face any consequences. X is a good, even heroic person, I don't want him to have moral injury of killing two guys who were just following orders.

Well yes, but that was self-defense, whether or not they were just following orders. Killing her after they were down and she was defenseless would have been a different thing.

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chaifan

chaifan

It's been a long time since I've liked a show this much, and also been happy with a season finale.  Are there some plot holes and handwaving needed sometimes, yes, but I feel much less than any other show in this genre.

I totally did not suspect the librarian, or the waitress.  I did think that Gabriella was not a bad guy, so I've guessed that one right.  And I still don't think Sinatra is totally evil, she's just willing to do bad things for what she believes is the benefit of the greater good (and yes, self preservation, too).  And Jane!  Whoa!  A total psychopath!  She even knew exactly how to shoot Sinatra so she wouldn't die.  

I feel a little bad for the waitress actually.  She's forced to live with a man, pose as husband and wife, and knows he's at least a little off.  She may not know about him murdering the couple, but would have to at least suspect something because he had their ID's, luggage, etc.  I wonder what happens when couples in Paradise get divorced?  Did they plan extra housing for that, future families, etc?

I don't understand why it took Trent 3 years to kill Cal.  Was him showing up in the library a trigger?  

The X on the cigarette package...  I'm so glad they showed that, as I couldn't figure out how Xavier knew to pick that up and look at it.  Damn, that was a brutal death for Cal, though.  

Trent & Adam...  I don't think they were lovers.  I do think Trent's feelings for him were more than friendship, though.  Trent donning the work outfit and killing Cal with the work tool was definitely a tribute, if not to Adam personally, then to all the workers.  And there were definitely some longing looks from Trent in Adam's direction.  But I saw no reciprocation of that.

Underground scientist guy...  wow.  He was so stupid just letting Trent go, knowing what he knew.  I was expecting there to be a "workplace accident" for Trent.  Trent had every right to be angry, but he got totally unhinged at some point.  I don't blame him.  

VP...  yeah!  He grew a spine!  

Jeremy...  I don't want an 18 year old leading anything, but I like him in the role of respected agitator and truth seeker/teller.

I like how they've set up next season.  I agree with whoever posted above that we have some handwaving to do with the plane being fueled and ready to go.  I don't want this to turn into just a post-apocalypse survival type show, so I sort of hope he finds Teri quickly, there's a lot of exposition dialog about how people have survived, and then they return to Paradise.  Then most of show remains about Paradise itself, and if/how Paradise will integrate with the survivors on top.

 

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chaifan

chaifan

33 minutes ago, marinw said:

In terms of the class structure, Sinatra was being served by a maid!! I wonder how she got on the approved list.

We saw this type of thing before.  In one of the earlier episodes they had 2 cleaning ladies getting off a bus and walking into a big house.  

I don't mean to sound classist/snooty, but it makes sense for some people to have household staff.  If you've got an important, time consuming job, it makes sense to have staff to clean your house or make your dinner.  Was Sinatra really that busy on a day to day basis in Paradise?  I don't know.  Did she need someone serving her dinner... nah.  But this was her creation, and I'm sure she worked in all the creature comforts she was used to in "normal" life.  So the staff certainly was on the approved list.

39 minutes ago, marinw said:

I'm very biased here, but bicycles are the ideal vehicle for this situation. An analog or even electric an bike can outlast a car. For those who can't or don't want to walk or bike you can have electric golf carts.

I totally agree, and I wish they had shown things like that.  We saw a bus early on, and really not a lot of cars other than the gov't ones (black SUV's).  So maybe everyone else does have bikes or golf carts.  But we never saw those.

40 minutes ago, Haleth said:

About replacement parts, I wonder if the plan was to have people periodically go topside to scrounge for parts and materials?

If they had 2 football fields worth of liquor, I'm sure they brought in plenty of replacement parts.  They anticipated global nuclear war.  They wouldn't be sending anyone topside for anything, especially irradiated parts.

 

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Paloma

Paloma

7 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I don't understand why it took Trent 3 years to kill Cal.  Was him showing up in the library a trigger?  

Yes, I think Trent said to Xavier that he got comfortable with living in Paradise but was reminded of why he came there when Cal came to the library. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just the fact of Cal showing up, but of Cal showing up in a bathrobe and acting light-hearted that triggered Trent's rage.

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SeanBug

SeanBug

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

So does x know how to fly?  Father was a pilot i don't recall the details there for him. 

Thank you!  I was wondering the same thing. When did he learn to fly?  I remember the conversation with his father at the airport, but don't remember him talking about being a pilot. 

I really liked this show but the season finale left me feeling kinda "meh".  I wanted the killer to be someone we rooted against  the whole season. Not someone we never noticed. And it wasn't Cal's fault, anyway. It was Sinatra's. 

Jane is batshit crazy. 

At least the little dog is okay. 

chaifan

chaifan

12 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I remember the conversation with his father at the airport, but don't remember him talking about being a pilot. 

I vaguely recall something in their conversation about X planning on following in dad's footsteps, but couldn't for some reason.  So maybe he learned how to fly, but never pursued it further?  I can't remember 100%.  

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