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S02.E10: Finance Bros

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Elsbeth

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Cress

Cress

That whole Van Ness subplot got resolved almost too easily. Felt really pointless. So now they gotta get that murdering judge.

I recently watched the original Matlock show, and the first episode with Dick Van Dyke as a murdering judge reminded me of Elsbeth's plot. They never explain how the judge lucked into being on the trial of the person they framed for the murder. Like, is this something that's easy for corrupt judges to do?

I did like all the cops helping Elsbeth and being on her team now. I hope they'll be as successful when taking down the judge too.

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possibilities

possibilities

I have no idea how many judges there are in NYC, but I know that some jurisdictions have very few. So, it might be something like 1 in 3 odds in a place like that. I never watched the original Matlock, so I don't know where it was set, but in my head I always imagined it being a small town or rural area, which I would think would have fewerjudges than NYC. But honestly, I don't actually know.

 

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seacliffsal

seacliffsal

I never really figured out why the one brother wanted to murder the other.  It had to be more than just the lifestyle change.  There was something about how an investment really increased after the murder but I didn't really follow why that was.  IMO this was the weakest murder case in that there didn't seem to be a real motive other than 'he was mom's favorite' or something like that.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

33 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I never really figured out why the one brother wanted to murder the other.  It had to be more than just the lifestyle change.  There was something about how an investment really increased after the murder but I didn't really follow why that was.  IMO this was the weakest murder case in that there didn't seem to be a real motive other than 'he was mom's favorite' or something like that.

Yes, but Peter channeled all his familial angst into achieving wealth: 

  • [ELSPETH TO AVA THE INTERVIEWER IN THE RESTAURANT] why would Bill Hepson's death have affected the price of cobalt?…
  • [AVA] Bill's charity funded research into alternative battery tech. Cobalt mines are terrible for the environment, human rights. Without Bill's funding, cobalt's more likely to remain a component, hence the price spike.
AnimeMania

AnimeMania

9 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I never really figured out why the one brother wanted to murder the other.

I think it was jealousy, one brother was always more popular than the other and now that he was donating all of his wealth to charities, he was getting lots of favorable attention which was undermining the confidence/self esteem (shown through his deteriorating golf skills) of the other brother.

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SomeTameGazelle

SomeTameGazelle

(edited)
7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think it was jealousy, one brother was always more popular than the other and now that he was donating all of his wealth to charities, he was getting lots of favorable attention which was undermining the confidence/self esteem (shown through his deteriorating golf skills) of the other brother.

I think it was supposed to be a combination of business and personal motivation. Peter had always been jealous about Bill's popularity and it was deeply rooted in their childhood where he perceived that their mother loved Bill more. But when Bill opted out of the business and focused on charity, that also had a negative impact on Peter's business -- or at least Peter was sure he would be making more money if only Bill weren't pursuing his dream. And the cobalt played into that -- without Bill the value of cobalt went up and with it Peter's stock.

The primary motive was greed but he was willing and able to murder his twin because he resented him personally. If it had been just the personal feelings he would have murdered him years ago.

ETA: I have deleted the episode so can't double-check, but wasn't there a bit after Bill told Peter he was going to change his lifestyle where they put up a card that said something like "$3.6 billion later . . ."? It wasn't clear to me what the amount represented (what Bill had given away? What Peter had lost?) but I remember thinking about it.

Edited by SomeTameGazelle
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christie

christie

9 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

ETA: I have deleted the episode so can't double-check, but wasn't there a bit after Bill told Peter he was going to change his lifestyle where they put up a card that said something like "$3.6 billion later . . ."? It wasn't clear to me what the amount represented (what Bill had given away? What Peter had lost?) but I remember thinking about it.

I thought that it was what Peter had made after Bill withdrew from the company.

Johannah

Johannah

I thought it was 90 pct greed and 10 pct ' Mom liked you best'.  I don't think he would have killed his twin just because of jealousy.

I kept waiting for the police to listen to the recording and hear the dogs barking in the background.  Ava/Ada not interrupting him was so flimsy and easily explained by saying he turned it off.  But he stopped talking when the dogs barked and I think there was something else in the background that would have been harder to explain.  I can't believe that didn't factor in as many times as they listened to the tape.

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Yeah No

Yeah No

(edited)
26 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I thought it was 90 pct greed and 10 pct ' Mom liked you best'.  I don't think he would have killed his twin just because of jealousy.

Me neither but I don't think he would have done it just out of greed either. I think the percentage of "Mom liked you best" is a little higher. I've known male twins and the rivalry, resentment and jealousy can be off the charts and ridiculous. I got the feeling that giving away the money was just the last straw. It was even worse because in doing so he was making himself even more beloved in the eyes of others and that rubbed salt in an open wound.

Edited by Yeah No
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
1 hour ago, Johannah said:

I kept waiting for the police to listen to the recording and hear the dogs barking in the background.  Ava/Ada not interrupting him was so flimsy and easily explained by saying he turned it off.  But he stopped talking when the dogs barked and I think there was something else in the background that would have been harder to explain.  I can't believe that didn't factor in as many times as they listened to the tape.

Same!
I can imagine they decided the barking dog effect was not possible to convey in an audible realistic manner unless they had Elsbeth get a subpoena and had the tech person enhance it — which would be boring CSI screen time.
But then why not delete the barking from the recording? 
I guess the barking served as a red herring for how the crime was concealed. 

Edited by shapeshifter
AnimeMania

AnimeMania

Well, the whole murder was ridiculous, you go to a building that you have hardly been to before. As soon as you get there somebody leaves the building, letting you in (totally improbable, but happens all the time on TV). Why did this person not report he saw the dead man wearing different clothes enter the building seconds before he changed clothes and was murdered. Then after entering the building you shout loudly on a cellphone all the way up several flights of stairs to the apartment. Knock on the door, have a fight in the hallway, and then push someone out of a window, run down the steps to the dead body and steal the cash, all without a single people hearing a thing. How close was the donut guy, Duncan, he saw the victim wearing different clothes, talking on the cellphone, but never heard him fall through a window (did they not look at dead guy's cellphone records to see who he was yelling at before he died?). With the lack of people around, it makes me wonder how long it took to find the body. They had to estimate the time of death on a street so busy it has a food cart. Like I said, "ridiculous". 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

On 2/10/2025 at 8:55 AM, AnimeMania said:

Well, the whole murder was ridiculous....

On 2/10/2025 at 1:02 PM, MaryMitch said:

Yeah, I thought so too. And the way she immediately suspected the brother. But that's the show! I enjoy it so much I'm willing to suspend belief.

I thought they did a good job of showing the brother's murderous anger right after his brother had been murdered, and Elspeth remarking about his level of rage. He never showed any sorrow for the loss of his twin, which I believe would be highly unusual.

 

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

On 2/9/2025 at 8:09 AM, SomeTameGazelle said:

I think it was supposed to be a combination of business and personal motivation.

That is certainly true, but it still felt like weak motivation to me. Weak enough to bother me. Tommy Smothers didn't kill his brother Dick because "mom always liked you best." 

I enjoyed the episode, but not as much as I've enjoyed episodes where the murder was sufficiently motivated. Like with the talker at the opera. :)

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Nashville

Nashville

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

That is certainly true, but it still felt like weak motivation to me. Weak enough to bother me. Tommy Smothers didn't kill his brother Dick because "mom always liked you best." 

IMHO the primary push for fratricide was a combination of several factors:

  • GoodBro has a Thoreau moment and decides to give away most of his wealth, which overwhelmingly derives from the family business.
  • GoodBro gives away something like $3.6B of his own personal holdings - but insofar as the main bulk of his fortune consists of family corporation holdings, the company’s value is reduced as well.
  • BadBro starts sweating the impact of the divestiture in terms of its negative impact on both (a) the family business assets and (b) BadBro’s own investment holdings in the company.

So: BadBro is working his butt off trying to rebuild assets to keep the family business (and himself) financially solvent, while at the same time GoodBro seems intent on giving it away quicker than BadBro can make it - and it probably doesn’t help that GoodBro’s very public promotion of his wealth divestiture is further enhancing the Golden Boy image which grates so badly on BadBro’s nerves.

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possibilities

possibilities

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

That is certainly true, but it still felt like weak motivation to me. Weak enough to bother me. Tommy Smothers didn't kill his brother Dick because "mom always liked you best." 

I love you for this reference.

But, you know, The Smothers Brothers had a sense of humor. And Dickie didn't leave Tommy's and his act. And Tommy wasn't trying to make a lot of money in a business Dickie was critical of.

And their act depended on a script that didn't call for murder.

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Yeah No

Yeah No

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

and it probably doesn’t help that GoodBro’s very public promotion of his wealth divestiture is further enhancing the Golden Boy image which grates so badly on BadBro’s nerves.

Yeah, like I said above. It wasn't just about giving away the money, but that combined with having to see all the love and attention the brother was getting for giving it away and how it made him once again feel like the less beloved one. It was just rubbing salt in an already open wound. It didn't just grate on his nerves, it was his worst nightmare of his youth taken to its most extreme degree. And I can see the motive in that.

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

(edited)
15 hours ago, Nashville said:

IMHO the primary push for fratricide was a combination of several factors:

  • GoodBro has a Thoreau moment and decides to give away most of his wealth, which overwhelmingly derives from the family business.
  • GoodBro gives away something like $3.6B of his own personal holdings - but insofar as the main bulk of his fortune consists of family corporation holdings, the company’s value is reduced as well.
  • BadBro starts sweating the impact of the divestiture in terms of its negative impact on both (a) the family business assets and (b) BadBro’s own investment holdings in the company.

You obviously know more about the world of high finance than I, because I would have said the GoodBro giving away $3.6B of his own money would have no impact on the firm.

Edited to add: I wish the episode had made your information clearer for the financial dullards among us.

Edited by Milburn Stone
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SomeTameGazelle

SomeTameGazelle

On 2/13/2025 at 6:37 PM, Nashville said:

BadBro is working his butt off trying to rebuild assets to keep the family business (and himself) financially solvent

I didn't think it was presented as keeping the business solvent as much as it was about keeping himself rich, which is a different thing. There were no scenes of his caring about other family members, employees, or shareholders, or being at risk of becoming actually destitute.

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Nashville

Nashville

On 2/15/2025 at 8:39 PM, SomeTameGazelle said:

I didn't think it was presented as keeping the business solvent as much as it was about keeping himself rich, which is a different thing. There were no scenes of his caring about other family members, employees, or shareholders, or being at risk of becoming actually destitute.

If BadBro’s personal fortune was largely based on stock holdings in the family business, then running the family business as well as possible benefits him financially.  The associated benefit to other shareholders (including family) would not necessarily even be a consideration, but the overall health and stability of the business would be.

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Badsamaritan

Badsamaritan

I just watched this episode so I may have a few answers, if I can explain correctly...

During the first interview BadBro did after GoodBro started giving away his wealth, the financial reporter asked him specifically about how the board was taking it, if they still had confidence that he alone could continue and that the company stock had been affected. In the next scenes with BadBro and his DoucheBro cronies playing golf in the office, even though the DoucheBros were talking about the GoodBro being a saint, GoodBro was still considered kinda wacky by the finance world for giving up all his money, and it was reflecting badly on BadBro within the finance world. It wasn't until he was in GoodBro's neighborhood where folks started thanking BadBro because they thought he was the other one. So at least storywise, part of BadBro's reasoning involved his personal and the company's business reputation taking a hit and being considered a laughingstock in the business world. That part then plays into BadBro's jealousy when he keeps getting thanked by folks GoodBro helped. BadBro has to deal with being made fun of in his world and then hear how beloved GoodBro is in his world. So it was a twofold thing. 

OMG that was Michael Park as Van Ness! Michael played Jack Snyder for many years on As the World Turns. I haven't seen him in a long time, he looks good with the gray. 

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