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S01.E02: Sinatra

AnimeMania

By AnimeMania
in Paradise (Hulu)

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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

(edited)

The number on the ciggy — 812092, what does it mean? 🤔

So, they have been in Paradise for 3 years now. On the surface, everybody seems to be living their lives, embracing normalcy after the massive catastrophe.

I wonder if Samantha Redmond is called Sinatra because she did it her way. Her backstory involving the tragic loss of her son is heartbreaking. 

Quote

“And I’ve been watching her. Sinatra. I’ve been listening to her. And something is not right with that woman. I can feel it in my gut.”

It makes sense for Xavier to suspect Sinatra. She has all the means and resources to protect Paradise if an alcoholic president has started to behave out of line. She won’t let him jeopardizing Paradise.

 

Edited by Snazzy Daisy
TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

I've only watched the first two episode and I wasn't really feeling the show as much but the ending got me. The numbers that was on the cigarette are definitely the identifying numbers on one of the planes the kids found.

I have so many logistical questions. Like how did they decide who got to go in the underground city besides all the billionaires. Robinson made a comment about worrying that 100 years from then people might end up marrying their cousins, so I guess they have some kind of population control going? Can have too many people having too many babies in such a constricted space.

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Broderbits

Broderbits

On 1/28/2025 at 11:58 PM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Like how did they decide who got to go in the underground city besides all the billionaires.

IRL the designated survivors are always billionaires, top politicians, tech/science bigwigs currently in favor with the other 2 groups, and security/military personnel for protection. In other words, people with the most power and money. They get to bring their families and whoever else they think might be useful.

Why anyone would want to save politicians is beyond my understanding; aren't they the ones who cause the disasters in the first place?

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Sandman

Sandman

(edited)

Oh, thank god Sinatra is a code name! (At first I was thinking someone actually named Billionaire Julianne "Sinatra.") Also: Sinatra as a code name is only marginally less befuddling, frankly.

The interwoven timelines are making me think this show is just as silly as Citadel, except with a lot less Stanley Tucci. I am grateful, though, that there is 100% more Sarah Shahi, so that's a bonus.

On 1/31/2025 at 7:14 AM, marinw said:

POTUS Bro is weirdly sympathetic, he may be smarmy but he isn't stupid and I think he is suffering real guilt about his actions.

POTUS Bro (heh. Nice! "BROTUS"?) might actually be a better human being than he wants us to think. (Or might have been, perhaps I should say.)

"Just read it, Henry; we didn't pick you to have thoughts." Yowch.

Oh, my goodness @edhopper: I did not even think of her being Chairman of the Board!

Edited by Sandman
D'oh!
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Anela

Anela

(edited)

I'm going to have to watch this again, because I was distracted. 

I had assumed that Sinatra was his wife, I was confused by the woman trying to get into the house in the first episode. The scenes with her son, were so sad. 

I also thought his son looked like Timothee Chalamet. 

I came into this, not knowing anything about it. I saw someone post about it on threads - just that she liked it. 

Edited by Anela
  • Like 2
jah1986

jah1986

I am really getting drawn into this show, please don't mess it up. Love seeing Sarah Shahi again! Cute seeing James Marsden and Julianne Nicholson together again after they played a couple on Ally McBeal.

So what's so special about the plane with the tail numbers the President kept in the cigarette pack?

So Sinatra built paradise based on her son's idea of heaven? Such a sad story. Glad she is at least still trying with her daughter.

The music is once again great.

  • Like 4
chaifan

chaifan

(edited)

OK, call me silly, but wouldn't you gather all the experts and consult with "build a new city" guy before you start digging a giant hole in the base of a mountain???  And some of those people on the plane were also at the conference table when they announced Cal's death, right?  Including New City guy?

I like that they provided more explanation on the underground city, but I wish they had just outright said what the "extinction level event" was.  The guy at the conference said a tsunami would engulf the East Coast, but it has to be more than that.  I'm still going with asteroid or some major shift in tectonic plates/fault lines or something along those lines (I have no idea if either of those are scientifically possible, just random guesses).  

On 1/28/2025 at 5:14 PM, Brown44 said:

So I'm guessing Nuke was launched by the President that's why Xavier hated him.

I remember seeing the flash when X was on the phone, but did they actually say there was a nuke?  Because that doesn't make sense to me.  First, if there's some "natural" disaster that's taking out the human race, why launch a nuke?  Second, in the end of the episode, the kids are above ground, back in the hangar that was saw in the beginning of the episode.  If there was a nuclear event, that would be incredibly dangerous, and there would be tons of safeguards against people going top side.  

Looks like X's wife was on the plane with him and the kids, but didn't make it to the mountain.  I suppose this will be dribbled out as slow as they possibly can and we'll find out in the final episode.  (Edited to add:  on rewatch, that looks to be his daughter, not his wife.)

And I agree, those numbers have to be a plane ID #.  They focused way too long on the one in the hangar.  

My gut feeling says that Sinatra's husband isn't who he says he is.  Meeting a guy and instantly telling him you'd be worth $14 BILLION in a year?  Hell yeah, I'd turn on the charm and get that woman to marry me.  I don't think Sinatra killed BROTUS (thanks, @Sandman!), because it just seems too obvious right now.  

Someone tell me if I saw what I think I saw... in the scene where they're showing the wrist bands, the woman getting a new one, the ops center... there's also a scene outside the house with two people getting off a bus and coming through the front gate.  Am I right, were those cleaning ladies?  If so,  ooof, that's not a good look, having "help" still have to take the bus to get to work, even in "Paradise".  I mean, I know even in a land of billionaires and politicians, you still need a "working class", but I was hoping they'd have a more equitable approach if every person is responsible for continuing the human race.  

OK, so now for some nitpicky pseudo-science stuff...  New City Guy says it would take an area the size of Toledo to build a city for 25,000 people.  Toledo is about 85 square miles.  I grew up in an upper middle class suburb of about 25,000 people - mostly single family homes, a good amount of green space, several commercial districts.  My city is just under 5 square miles.  I know additional space is needed for infrastructure, farm land (which we saw a flash of), things like that to support the population.  But I can't imagine all that requiring another 80 square miles.  

Also, just how far underground are they?  And if the kids can so easily go top side without any worry about radiation or any other danger, why are they staying down there?  

Despite my nitpicks, I'm liking this.  I like the story, I like the characters.  I like that BROTUS is a bit of an ass, but a charming ass.  I thought the scientist guy with no audience was funny.  

At this point, are we only getting 1 episode a week?  And how many episodes will there be?

 

Edited by chaifan
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Anela

Anela

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

OK, call me silly, but wouldn't you gather all the experts and consult with "build a new city" guy before you start digging a giant hole in the base of a mountain???  And some of those people on the plane were also at the conference table when they announced Cal's death, right?  Including New City guy?

I like that they provided more explanation on the underground city, but I wish they had just outright said what the "extinction level event" was.  The guy at the conference said a tsunami would engulf the East Coast, but it has to be more than that.  I'm still going with asteroid or some major shift in tectonic plates/fault lines or something along those lines (I have no idea if either of those are scientifically possible, just random guesses).  

I remember seeing the flash when X was on the phone, but did they actually say there was a nuke?  Because that doesn't make sense to me.  First, if there's some "natural" disaster that's taking out the human race, why launch a nuke?  Second, in the end of the episode, the kids are above ground, back in the hangar that was saw in the beginning of the episode.  If there was a nuclear event, that would be incredibly dangerous, and there would be tons of safeguards against people going top side.  

Looks like X's wife was on the plane with him and the kids, but didn't make it to the mountain.  I suppose this will be dribbled out as slow as they possibly can and we'll find out in the final episode.

And I agree, those numbers have to be a plane ID #.  They focused way too long on the one in the hangar.  

My gut feeling says that Sinatra's husband isn't who he says he is.  Meeting a guy and instantly telling him you'd be worth $14 BILLION in a year?  Hell yeah, I'd turn on the charm and get that woman to marry me.  I don't think Sinatra killed BROTUS (thanks, @Sandman!), because it just seems too obvious right now.  

Someone tell me if I saw what I think I saw... in the scene where they're showing the wrist bands, the woman getting a new one, the ops center... there's also a scene outside the house with two people getting off a bus and coming through the front gate.  Am I right, were those cleaning ladies?  If so,  ooof, that's not a good look, having "help" still have to take the bus to get to work, even in "Paradise".  I mean, I know even in a land of billionaires and politicians, you still need a "working class", but I was hoping they'd have a more equitable approach if every person is responsible for continuing the human race.  

OK, so now for some nitpicky pseudo-science stuff...  New City Guy says it would take an area the size of Toledo to build a city for 25,000 people.  Toledo is about 85 square miles.  I grew up in an upper middle class suburb of about 25,000 people - mostly single family homes, a good amount of green space, several commercial districts.  My city is just under 5 square miles.  I know additional space is needed for infrastructure, farm land (which we saw a flash of), things like that to support the population.  But I can't imagine all that requiring another 80 square miles.  

Also, just how far underground are they?  And if the kids can so easily go top side without any worry about radiation or any other danger, why are they staying down there?  

Despite my nitpicks, I'm liking this.  I like the story, I like the characters.  I like that BROTUS is a bit of an ass, but a charming ass.  I thought the scientist guy with no audience was funny.  

At this point, are we only getting 1 episode a week?  And how many episodes will there be?

 

I think it’s eight episodes.  
 

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circumvent

circumvent

On 1/30/2025 at 10:12 AM, Broderbits said:

Why anyone would want to save politicians is beyond my understanding; aren't they the ones who cause the disasters in the first place?

I am all for killing all billionaires. Too relatable to real life news. There is no reason whatsoever that a billionaire should exist. My wish would be to send them all to a trip to Pluto, in a self-destructive ship. 

So, if the 25000 people are all related to the billionaires, who is cleaning their houses? Who is cooking their food, doing their laundry? No way in any dome billionaires would do normal human things. 

And is there enough people to plant and harvest the food they eat? How about maintenance of the fake sun and fake sky, fake moon, fake stars? 

All this takes much more than 25000 people and the ones in the little city main street seemed to be doing absolutely nothing, just hanging and shopping. Maybe they are also battery-run robots? 

 

On 2/2/2025 at 8:22 PM, Sandman said:

POTUS Bro (heh. Nice! "BROTUS"?) might actually be a better human being than he wants us to think

There is no such thing as good "bro". I find him awful. Not liking the actor either, whoever he is

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chaifan

chaifan

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

So, if the 25000 people are all related to the billionaires, who is cleaning their houses? Who is cooking their food, doing their laundry? No way in any dome billionaires would do normal human things. 

And is there enough people to plant and harvest the food they eat? How about maintenance of the fake sun and fake sky, fake moon, fake stars? 

All this takes much more than 25000 people

Personally, I don't think you could have a society made up just/mostly of billionaires and their friends/families.  If this city is made to save humans from extinction, people would be selected for skills and knowledge more than money.  (Yes, money would impact some selections, of course.)  To function as a normal city you would need to include people in normal everyday jobs, and we saw some of those, including shops and retail workers.  Billionaires and their families aren't going to be doing this.

See my post above - I swear they showed 2 cleaning ladies in one scene.  So yes, we know there is a blue collar/service working class.  We saw one scene showing technicians who keep the dome running.  But, I don't think you'd need anywhere close to 25,000 people just to keep the city going.

Here's a rough breakdown - for a "normal" city of 25,000, you'd have about 200 public employees working for "City Hall" (police, fire, EMS, parks & rec, etc.).  But tack on things that normally are handled by state or county gov't (roads/infrastructure, public transport, etc.) and I could see a public workforce of about 500.  Add on another 300-400 employees for a public school system.  I have no idea how to calculate how many farm/agricultural workers would be necessary, but with hydroponics (which we saw) it could probably be done with about 1,000 people.  And then there's the technicians and maintenance people actually keeping the dome running.  I don't have much to base this on, but I'd guess another 1,000 for that.  I think at maximum, you'd need 5,000 people to keep the city going.

It's all just a rough estimate, but I like thinking about things like this.  

 

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Broderbits

Broderbits

4 hours ago, circumvent said:

So, if the 25000 people are all related to the billionaires, who is cleaning their houses? Who is cooking their food, doing their laundry? No way in any dome billionaires would do normal human things. 

That's an excellent point, and I wonder if the show is going to explain it. Maybe the elite class got to choose their own servants and Sinatra chose any necessary civic support staff herself.

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circumvent

circumvent

On 2/4/2025 at 7:25 PM, Broderbits said:

That's an excellent point, and I wonder if the show is going to explain it. Maybe the elite class got to choose their own servants and Sinatra chose any necessary civic support staff herself.

That's what hasn't work for me so far. I want to know if they planned to stay for a limited amount of time, so they have enough water, food, and whatever else they need to survive. Who are the chosen people? How are they so compliant with the situation? I mean, everyone has someone who was left behind, the people in the hole seem way too satisfied with the situation. 

Maybe this will explained as the series progress but it is taking way too long for me to get into the story because so far it is just another conspiracy show. If they want to make it "special" and "unique" because it has the mystery of why they moved to that hole, they need to give more context and explanations.

I also wonder if they based this on the very real thing that is happening, which is a bunch of billionaires actually preparing bunkers, hiring former Navy Seals to protect them and selecting who can move in with them. They freaked out when it was pointed out to them that once they are closed in, their money will mean nothing, and people who have real skills will dominate. And that's what bothers me, and connects with my point above: the billionaires money is worthy nothing down there, so why are they still in charge - at least part of a board of sorts? Why aren't the local pigs taking over? What does Sinatra have on them, how does she control them?

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Mindthinkr

Mindthinkr

On 2/4/2025 at 7:18 PM, chaifan said:

  I think at maximum, you'd need 5,000 people to keep the city going.

I’d add another 1k for medical staffing. While I’m speaking of medical, I wonder that some of the people were chosen for their good genes. DNA was mentioned and ideally they’d want healthy people with no history of heart disease, cancers, or hereditary conditions to keep the human species going. It could be as simple as free ancestry testing was given so they could sort through humans to find the healthiest stock. That of course wouldn’t be known by the people being tested. They’d just be told that they were Irish, Italian or Scottish etc. 

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chaifan

chaifan

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’d add another 1k for medical staffing.

Yeah, I was trying to just count government employees - the minimum necessary to make a city run/function, provide basic city services, etc.  But there'd definitely be a full hospital in Paradise and 1,000 employees for that hospital probably isn't far off.  I've also wondered if genetics played a part in choosing who is there.  And if that's a reason X's wife isn't there.  (Maybe a preliminary health screen revealed she's at high risk for MS or ALS, or something like that.)

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

Maybe this will explained as the series progress but it is taking way too long for me to get into the story because so far it is just another conspiracy show. If they want to make it "special" and "unique" because it has the mystery of why they moved to that hole, they need to give more context and explanations.

I actually like the pace of the release of information so far.  Sure, I'd love to have all the answers right now, what was the extinction event, how long did it take to build this, how did they select the people, how does the city support itself, etc.  But I also like wondering about this stuff and figuring out if this would even actually be possible in the real world.  That's part of the fun for me.  

I saw an article that said the creators have planned this out for 3 seasons, so my guess is that by the end of this season we'll have some answers about the how & why of Paradise, but still a lot to learn.  

 

 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

On 2/3/2025 at 10:12 PM, chaifan said:

Also, just how far underground are they?  And if the kids can so easily go top side without any worry about radiation or any other danger, why are they staying down there?  

I'm not sure if the show really thought that far ahead, but yes, if the kids can easily access the above ground level, and there's nothing to suggest they are in danger being up there, to me that would suggest the area outside the mountain is safe for human habitation. 

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SoMuchTV

SoMuchTV

On 2/3/2025 at 10:12 PM, chaifan said:

Also, just how far underground are they?  And if the kids can so easily go top side without any worry about radiation or any other danger, why are they staying down there?  

 

11 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm not sure if the show really thought that far ahead, but yes, if the kids can easily access the above ground level, and there's nothing to suggest they are in danger being up there, to me that would suggest the area outside the mountain is safe for human habitation. 

I’ve been a little hesitant to reply to some of the posts here because at this point I’ve seen more episodes than you have, but if you’re talking about when the First Son took X’s daughter to see the planes, I had the impression that was some kind of antechamber at the underground level that the planes had flown in to, via whatever giant underground tunnel they had built to truck everything in to. 

If I’m inadvertently referencing a future episode, someone please tell me and I’ll edit. 

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ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

I was originally interested in this show because I saw the trailer and expected something of a political thriller. Finding out the creator was the This Is Us guy, a show I couldn't get into, plus the stuff with the underground city, and I have my doubts.  I am interested in how the President died (my current theory is that he "arranged" his death to investigate and thereby unearth whatever secrets there are, knowing Agent Collins would be the one to find him and be "relentless"). I'm also interested in Collins' wife and how she died. Still, I'll probably wait until the rest of the episodes drop and binge watch the rest.   

Otherwise....

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

I saw an article that said the creators have planned this out for 3 seasons,

After watching just 2 episodes, I'm not sure there is enough (interesting) story here for 2 additional seasons, even assuming 8-10 episodes.  But then, I'm not that invested in the how or why logistics of the underground city because I find it kind of silly as is. 

The conversation between FLOTUS and Collins where he flat out called BROTUS a racist was funny.  Because, well, yeah. 

I was confused why Agent Robinson seemed so hostile towards Collins.  

chaifan

chaifan

11 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

but if you’re talking about when the First Son took X’s daughter to see the planes, I had the impression that was some kind of antechamber at the underground level that the planes had flown in to, via whatever giant underground tunnel they had built to truck everything in to. 

Yeah, the kids were the same hangar they showed in the beginning, with Sinatra flying all the scientists to the mountain.  There was all the heavy equipment outside, and then the hangar is inside the mountain, but at ground level.  Tunnel/hangar, we're talking about the same thing.  

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circumvent

circumvent

16 hours ago, chaifan said:

But I also like wondering about this stuff and figuring out if this would even actually be possible in the real world.  That's part of the fun for me.  

I get that. I was just hoping that this would be somewhat unique in the universe of every-show-looks-like-the-other-one. So far, this show falls on that category for me, so I watch it hoping it will end soon, or that it gives me answers. Then I get annoyed because it it just another silly cop/conspiracy/spy show, but in a Truman Show dome

The writing has failed me and TV is all about the story. 

it is the writer's medium

astrohip

astrohip

On 2/16/2025 at 2:02 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

@astrohip

Plot and theory mentioned in your comment above only happened in Episode 5. 😬

Sorry about that. When I saw that post, I replied without realizing my possibility came from a future episode.

I went ahead and deleted it, there was no point in leaving it in this thread.

Appreciate the reminder!

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