S07.E10 Brotherly Love

[Quickbeam]

This episode dropped earlier than last weeks. Lots of plot movement, back to Philly, Rollo, Ian, Rachel, William et al. 

Edited November 30 by Quickbeam
Autocorrected

[bluestocking]

The plot thickens as they say.  Claire's grief was portrayed well.  Lord John's proposal made sense if you didn't think about it too long.  

I'm no surgeon but was the surgery at all realistic--showing us the intestines out of the body?  

I'm glad the Arch Bugg plotline is finally done with.  

m

 

 

 

[Jodithgrace]

I’m pretty sure that surgeons can remove almost anything as long as it’s still attached (and they put it back) Resecting a portion of the intestine is a fairly common surgery I believe, though whether it was common in 1968 when Claire was practicing, I don’t know. It was certainly rare in the 18th century before anesthesia, so no wonder Denzel was amazed. 
 

I think it’s funny that Roger just keeps running into his various ancestors every time he turns around. He even got to witness that great rom com, “When Duncan met Geilis.” And now his father is lurking about somewhere too. If it were only so easy finding his descendant! 
 

Ol’ Arch Bug popped out of the woodwork one time too many…finally. Poor William! He saves Rachel’s (and Ian’s) life only to be friend zoned. Maybe he shouldn’t have been so quick to save Ian. 
 

Claire marrying Lord John. What could possibly go wrong?

[Lola82]

What was the point of the Bug storyline? I didn’t read this far into the books but I wonder if a lot of it was cut out. He threatened Rachel and same scene he’s killed and disposed of. No biggie. It added nothing to the story. 
 

I'm enjoying Roger’s scenes (especially without Bree) but his internal monologue is so unnecessary. It’s strange they added this in since they never used this device in past seasons.

Obviously Jamie can’t be dead with 1.5 seasons left to go so I hope they hurry up and bring him back, I need him on my screen. 

[BitterApple]

I don't understand the proposal angle. Wouldn't a quickie marriage only make Claire look more suspect? The Brits tell John that Claire will be arrested, they give her a day and she turns herself in newly married? Would their sense of politeness towards Lord Grey really outweigh their determination to win the war? Like others have said, I guess I can't think about it too hard!

I'm wondering at what point in the season does Jamie come back? I'm not a book reader either, but yeah, his 'death' wasn't a shock when it's such an obvious fakeout. 

For me, Roger has the most interesting storyline thus far. Also, why does he not listen to Buck? I think Buck was spot-on when he said Rob ending up in pre-Culloden Scotland wasn't an accident. Roger's operating on the assumption that it's the gold Rob is after, but what if it's something else entirely? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Lola82 said:

What was the point of the Bug storyline? I didn’t read this far into the books but I wonder if a lot of it was cut out

This is the non-book thread. You may want to post in the book thread. From what I can remember, the rules were relaxed that book readers could post in here, but not mention the books or what happened or didn’t happen there.

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't understand the proposal angle. Wouldn't a quickie marriage only make Claire look more suspect?

If she’s married to Lord John, she’s immune.  

I agree, it absolutely makes her look suspicious, but at that point, their hands are tied.

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

If she’s married to Lord John, she’s immune.  

Okay, thanks. The plot was moving so fast this episode, I was struggling to pick up on all the details. 

[Night Cheese]

Basically the same loophole that led to Claire marrying Jamie in season 1.

I liked the Philadelphia scenes in this one. Claire acting as a courier was cool to see. It felt like the show Turn. 

Geillis and Dougal's origin story was great. Super awkward all around. 😆

[Hanahope]

I love seeing all these old characters again.  Ah when Buck saw his parents meet.  The beginning of love.  lol 
 

So Roger’s dad is in 1740 too?   Maybe that’s why Roger and Buck went back to 1740?  So where is Jem?
 

so this is the second time Jamie “died.”  With so much of the show to go somehow I doubt he did not survive or will make a comeback.  

Of course very convenient that she must now marry Lord John.  
 

Edited December 1 by Hanahope

[sas616]

10 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

It felt like the show Turn. 

LOL.   Exactly what I thought when Claire was dropping off the message to Washingon.   And that now I want to rewatch Turn (for the 5th time).

[Lola82]

So does this mean that Claire kept delivering messages or was she noticed that one time?

[zoey1996]

Claire had left several messages. 

I'm intrigued with Roger's story line, but I want them to find Jem soon!

When Claire was told Jamie was dead, I said, No, he's not, you only think he's dead. But somehow, he's miraculously survived. How will be revealed in a later episode. In the meanwhile, will Claire become a bigamist without knowing it?

[Clanstarling]

The penny finally dropped for me as to why they landed so much earlier in the timeline. Both Roger's son and father were named Jeremiah, so if they were thinking "Jeremiah" when they went through the stones, they found Jemmie's grandfather instead of Jemmie.

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, sas616 said:

LOL.   Exactly what I thought when Claire was dropping off the message to Washingon.   And that now I want to rewatch Turn (for the 5th time).

I loved Turn!  Maybe rewatching would be good, as I know very little about the American Revolution.  History was never my favorite subject in school, but watching it is fascinating!

[sas616]

5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I loved Turn!  Maybe rewatching would be good, as I know very little about the American Revolution.  History was never my favorite subject in school, but watching it is fascinating!

Loved me some John Andre, even if he was a Redcoat.  

[taanja]

On 12/1/2024 at 10:06 AM, zoey1996 said:

Claire had left several messages. 

I'm intrigued with Roger's story line, but I want them to find Jem soon!

When Claire was told Jamie was dead, I said, No, he's not, you only think he's dead. But somehow, he's miraculously survived. How will be revealed in a later episode. In the meanwhile, will Claire become a bigamist without knowing it?

Oh??!!! The show made it look like Claire only delivered the one message.

I am personally enjoying Roger and Buck's story. Roger is not usually my favorite but I am loving the personal dialogue in his head when he says stuff like (to Geillis) -- well you out to recognize him (Buck!) - he's your son!

I laughed out loud. I love the awkwardness of it all. But yeah I feel like Roger should listen to ole Bucky! I think that Cameron dude is there because of something with Geillis - not the gold.

Ok. Talk about contrived! haha! Jaime died in the ocean (sure he did!) and now Claire MUST wed Lord John - post haste! That is seriously the ONLY solution? It's like Lord John has been waiting for the first opportunity to present itself so he can achieve his hearts desire of marrying Claire. Weird.

Yeah. Like everyone else said -- no way is Jamie dead. Just no way. Some fishing trawler came by in the nick of time and pulled him from the water! The only survivor! (I am only speculating - I know nuthin!)

That whole Mister whatshisname trying to kill Ian seemed - huh? what? why? I barely remember the plot! I could have done without that! I guess it showed William that Ian won the girl?

Edited December 2 by taanja
spelling

[zoey1996]

1 hour ago, taanja said:

Oh??!!! The show made it look like Claire only delivered the one message.

When the officer was explaining to Lord John and showing evidence, he had more than one message in his hand.

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, taanja said:

Oh??!!! The show made it look like Claire only delivered the one message.

I thought so, too. Definitely going to rewatch!

[tennisgurl]

I am really enjoying Roger wandering about meeting the ghosts of seasons and several of his relatives, I have always wanted them to pop into some other time periods, even if its not far from ones we have previously been to. Just in time for the holiday season, its "When Duncan met Gellis"! 

My only complaint about Roger's story are is voice overs, they all feel so unnecessary and random, I am always surprised to hear them no matter how many times they start.

Claire's plot was fun, even if her having to marry Lord John suddenly seems pretty contrived. Isn't this how she ended up marrying Jamie way back in the day? Sure, I totally buy that Jamie really died offscreen in a random shipwreck, right. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh, I totally forgot about the old guy. I don't even remember why he had it in for Young Ian and the Frasers because the last season was 207 years ago. I'm actually glad this was over with quick because I don't care about the plot at all and that Ian didn't end up separated from Claire. Even with the ax cut, I think Ian could have beaten an old man. I was most worried about the dog anyway. 

They know how to stick the landing on a death scene though with Old Ian. That was superb. 

I'm glad Claire and Young Ian got to Philadelphia fast and we didn't get saddled with three episodes of some sort of boat drama with the quartermaster threatening Claire and Claire mouthing off about something or another. 

When they talked about spies, now I'm hoping to see some of characters from the Turn show that was on a while back. We had a lot of fun with that. Ha ha ha! And Mercy is one of them! *Of course* Claire is going to be a spy now. 

Ah, we get a timestamp for Roger. I'm enjoying Roger's snarky inner monologue. I agree with telling Buck what's going on, and *having an actual conversation about time travel*. *gasp* Where has this Roger been? 

Roger was totally looking at a picture of Buck that was fading until Dougal met Gellis. 

I can buy that there were other surgeries on Henry at least. Otherwise, being shot and then five weeks on top of Claire getting there does seem a bit much. 

I don't know if it's deliberate because the show isn't subtle, but I like how we're seeing Loyalists and Rebels mixing together. Kind of underscores the messiness of the war. I guess that the break in winter and letting everyone basically mingle around let's them get to know each other better. 

I'm with Lord John on not being able to look. Glad they also got the operation done quick too. This show can drag and then just sail along sometimes. 

I'm wondering at this point who isn't a time traveler? 

I'm sure there's less than zero people here who think Jamie actually died, except Lord John, and he seemed more broken up than Claire, but I don't like when the show separates them so much. I don't think it should last long. Glad Lord John is there for his daring deeds. And there's going to be lots more!

I want to see all of this for the rest of the season!

On 11/29/2024 at 8:26 PM, Jodithgrace said:

Claire marrying Lord John. What could possibly go wrong?

I'd buy tickets for this. It is nice that this is how Lord John sees that he can honor Jamie by looking after Claire. 

On 11/30/2024 at 8:50 AM, Lola82 said:

I'm enjoying Roger’s scenes (especially without Bree) but his internal monologue is so unnecessary. It’s strange they added this in since they never used this device in past seasons.

They did this with Claire a lot early on. Maybe it's a little too much with Roger, but I think it's fair because even though he's familiar with time travel, he is really on his own, and he can't be saying to Buck, 'hey look! It's your mom! They're going to conceive you now!' And he's reasonably freaked out too. If he was alone, he'd probably be muttering to himself. With Claire at the beginning, it was the same. She was alone and didn't even have the benefit of experience of living in that time like Roger does now. 

On 11/30/2024 at 7:56 PM, Night Cheese said:

It felt like the show Turn. 

And, like Turn, she was just as bad as it as they were! Remember how LOUDLY they talked about spy stuff in crowded bars!

On 12/1/2024 at 10:11 AM, Clanstarling said:

The penny finally dropped for me as to why they landed so much earlier in the timeline. Both Roger's son and father were named Jeremiah, so if they were thinking "Jeremiah" when they went through the stones, they found Jemmie's grandfather instead of Jemmie.

That's a good as reason as any. Clever thought! I won't go on my jag about the rules of the stones, but that means Jem the son is 40 years in their future then? I leaning to Buck that Cameron isn't after the gold, but I'd bet, being a tv watcher all my life, that everyone is wandering around the same time Roger is in. 

[taanja]

1 hour ago, zoey1996 said:

When the officer was explaining to Lord John and showing evidence, he had more than one message in his hand.

Weirdly I saw those but assumed they were letters from other spy's. Like he was walking around with proof (for Lord John) of all the spies he is trying to catch. (Claire being just one)  

I mean the show told us what was going to happen when Claire made the comment that the soldiers were NOT suspecting females of spying and just letting them walk on by.

[DoctorAtomic]

They probably pinned the one on Claire that we saw, so they're trying to pin all the rest they found on her too. I would bet if Lord John actually looked at the letters or asked when the redcoats found them, some would have actually been before Claire arrived. Unless the guy had Claire's fingerprints on all the letters. Her being identified as planting the letter in the garden, if that's the case, is a legitimate case, and that's enough for hanging though.

So she still has to marry Lord John and we're getting our hijinks!

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Oh, I totally forgot about the old guy. I don't even remember why he had it in for Young Ian and the Frasers because the last season was 207 years ago. I'm actually glad this was over with quick because I don't care about the plot at all and that Ian didn't end up separated from Claire. Even with the ax cut, I think Ian could have beaten an old man. I was most worried about the dog anyway.

We rewatched the season seven episodes before the new one came out. Arch Bug had hidden stolen Jacobite gold under the house (I think), and Jaime and Ian were standing watch to stop him from taking it away after the house burned down. When Jaime was shot at (I think) by a person they thought was Arch, Ian shot an arrow and killed the shooter. Unfortunately, it was Arch's wife wearing his coat. So Arch said he'd get his revenge when Ian had someone he cared about - that is, he'd kill whatever woman Ian loved.

 

Edited December 2 by Clanstarling

[DoctorAtomic]

He still could even do that. 

[Haleth]

On 12/1/2024 at 6:28 PM, sas616 said:

Loved me some John Andre, even if he was a Redcoat.  

The actor has a lot of charisma. Loved that show!

Speaking of charisma, it was awesome to see Dougal again. Poor Roger standing there watching Dougal and Geillis flirt. Eww, ick. And Buck sitting there oblivious. 

[taanja]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

The actor has a lot of charisma. Loved that show!

Speaking of charisma, it was awesome to see Dougal again. Poor Roger standing there watching Dougal and Geillis flirt. Eww, ick. And Buck sitting there oblivious. 

That was laugh out loud awesome!

But Roger and Buck are in 1738? 1739? about 10years BEFORE Buck is conceived.

So basically the show is telling us that Dougal and Geillis were lovers for many years.

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, taanja said:

That was laugh out loud awesome!

But Roger and Buck are in 1738? 1739? about 10years BEFORE Buck is conceived.

So basically the show is telling us that Dougal and Geillis were lovers for many years.

When Claire first went she fell into 1743. That is the year Buck was conceived, but obviously Geillis & Dougal were carrying on for years, but not 10! 

Edited December 3 by Cdh20
Adding a thought

[zoey1996]

On 12/2/2024 at 3:00 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

They probably pinned the one on Claire that we saw, so they're trying to pin all the rest they found on her too. I would bet if Lord John actually looked at the letters or asked when the redcoats found them, some would have actually been before Claire arrived. Unless the guy had Claire's fingerprints on all the letters. Her being identified as planting the letter in the garden, if that's the case, is a legitimate case, and that's enough for hanging though.

So she still has to marry Lord John and we're getting our hijinks!

Fingerprints were not in use for evidence until around the 1900's. It is ambiguous whether Claire left more than one. I think she did, but I could be wrong.

[DoctorAtomic]

5 minutes ago, zoey1996 said:

Fingerprints were not in use for evidence until around the 1900's.

I was being facetious. My point was that they probably just a lot of the letters and pinned it on the only person they could find that they knew planted a letter (Claire). Holding a bunch of letters and saying 'we have evidence' is nonsense. 

I hope Roger tells Buck about Dougal and Gellis when they leave. 

[taanja]

23 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

When Claire first went she fell into 1743. That is the year Buck was conceived, but obviously Geillis & Dougal were carrying on for years, but not 10! 

Oh? She was in Scotland/the past for 3 years? I forgot that detail!

But anyway -- Geillis and Dougal in that most recent scene were NOT conceiving Buck! 

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, taanja said:

But anyway -- Geillis and Dougal in that most recent scene were NOT conceiving Buck! 

Agreed. To me it certainly looked like Roger and Buck had happened upon the day that Geillis and Dougal first met. Both had been given the name of an herbalis/healer. That was my 1st take on that scene. 

I'll have to rewatch to confirm, though. It's easy to miss things the 1st time around. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

They totally went in the back and did it though. 

[TV Anonymous]

I hope that Roger's father does not have sex with anyone in 1740 and have any offspring off that. Because, he could then be the ancestor of himself, considering his family stays in that area until 20th century. 

[NJRadioGuy]

4 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

I hope that Roger's father does not have sex with anyone in 1740 and have any offspring off that. Because, he could then be the ancestor of himself, considering his family stays in that area until 20th century. 

Whereing suddenly the song ♫♪ I'm my own grandpa....♫♪ gets taken to a whole new level.

[DoctorAtomic]

You know that's exactly what's going to happen. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 12/2/2024 at 3:41 PM, taanja said:

Weirdly I saw those but assumed they were letters from other spy's. Like he was walking around with proof (for Lord John) of all the spies he is trying to catch. (Claire being just one) 

Richardson's exact words were "She's been delivering missives for the Rebels. And before you ask, yes, I'm sure. One of my men intercepted some of the messages." So he's attributing plural messages to Claire.

On 12/2/2024 at 5:15 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

He still could even do that. 

You mean Arch could still kill the woman Ian loves? William shot him dead.

On 12/4/2024 at 6:03 PM, Anothermi said:

Agreed. To me it certainly looked like Roger and Buck had happened upon the day that Geillis and Dougal first met. Both had been given the name of an herbalis/healer. That was my 1st take on that scene.

Correct that it was their first meeting. They introduced themselves to each other. Dougal came because he wanted to give Roger the dogtags. So Roger and Buck's presence led to Geillis and Dougal's first meeting.