S05.E11: Three Fifty-Three

[Snazzy Daisy]

Quote

Beth discusses the fate of the ranch with an unlikely ally.

Kayce takes the investigation into his own hands.

Jamie looks to advance his political agenda.

Air Date: Nov 24, 2024

 

Edited November 25 by Snazzy Daisy

[CrazyInAlabama]

This episode made up for the sloppy storylines in the two previous episodes.  

[Msample]

Ding dong the witch is dead. I did think Clara would stop by the ranch, not Rainwater.

Edited November 25 by Msample

[Madding crowd]

This is an entire show about bullies. Why is there no security in Jamie’s office? Anyone can come in and hurt him, his assistant and anyone else they feel like. I just can’t root for Beth to win, I just can’t. Then I saw the commercial for products talking about taking people to the train station and going Beth Dutton on people. Are we supposed to celebrate bullying now? I still like the music and scenery but hate the storyline.

[SuprSuprElevated]

38 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Why is there no security in Jamie’s office?

Asked the same question about the Governor's mansion. Did I miss the bad guys disarming or worse a crew of armed, young stud security personnel, or was there really only one middle-aged guy on duty guarding JD and responding to sounds of shots fired? 

Edited November 25 by SuprSuprElevated

[Msample]

I’ve seen better security at a local bank branch than the governors mansion . 

 

 

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

This is an entire show about bullies. Why is there no security in Jamie’s office? Anyone can come in and hurt him, his assistant and anyone else they feel like. I just can’t root for Beth to win, I just can’t.

I feel like Jamie should change his name to Pinata. Seems like Beth slaps the crap out of him anytime she's bored and now Caycee is in on the act. Jamie's secretary would be well in her rights to quit/ask for a transfer due to a decidedly unsafe work environment.

[Artsda]

Wow, she died faster than I expected. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Great ep.

No way could the new Guv pull off his stunt Assembly resolution in that moment, but it sure was fun to see.  I also am having a problem with the Helena P.D. Chief organizing that presser with significant support beside him on such an expedited basis, let alone that he instantly chose to go hardcore by declaring a homicide instead of "unknown" cause of death.  But, again, it sure was fun to watch.

Awesome to see Rainwater so weakened, yet determined as always to search for anything that can prolong that environment.  His outline of the feckless and corrupt federal government was tremendous.

The mysticism (visions) is super interesting to me.  I am happy to suspend disbelief to see where it goes.  Mo Brings Plenty, indeed.

Sheridan has boxed himself (and Jamie) in.  Sarah would be quickly connected to Jamie and the investigation of her murder would bring heat our boy would never have the stomach nor the smarts to handle.  Beth will have to steer entirely clear of him because of the full-on and legit investigation of John's murder, but that would take away so much draaaaaama.

It does not make any sense at all to me why Kayce had not already invoked police powers and pressured the Coroner.  Nothing was a higher priority to him than figuring out what really happened to his father.  But, again, fun sequence.

I am totally looking forward to more scenes with Kayce's Special Forces buddy.  

 

[NeenerNeener]

So, was Sarah whacked because she called the guys she hired to whack John and they're covering their tracks, or was she whacked because Market Equities wanted her gone so whacking John wouldn't lead back to them? They could be two different sets of assassins. The timing would say the burner phone did her in. Oh hell, as long as she's gone I don't care. Karma ventilated Jamie's evil girlfriend!

[bunnyface]

I don't think (it's Sheridanland tho) they could have gotten to her so quickly from a burner phone, and that's kind of the point of a burner phone.  No, I think the press conference did her in.  As soon as the press conference was held, they had to clean up loose ends.  They took her real phone during the super-secret meeting, so it wouldn't be hard to track and find her quickly.  

The thing that gets me is that supposedly smart Sarah knew the house was bugged, yet she keeps flapping her gums in the house about the murder.  So, knowing the house is bugged, she's fully implicated Jamie in everything even while saying he's not implicated in anything.  So either Jamie is a new loose end or they have Jamie over a barrel for whatever they may want in the future.  And of course, being on the phone with Jamie when she got killed is going to be ooky for him as well.

[MDL]

In the previous ep., Kayce called one of his special forces buddy, and asked about people doing "dark work", and the buddy mentioned names, but said 'be careful".

Has any more come of this?

[CrazyInAlabama]

The buddy telling Kayce who does wet work, and about how much it costs confirmed who was probably behind the hit.   Only Market Equities has the cash, and since ME was backing Jamie, and had Sarah on the payroll, it was a huge clue.   

The second John's death was ruled a homicide, the company that did the hit had to get rid of links to anyone that could expose them, and the main link was Sarah.  

Edited November 25 by CrazyInAlabama

[blackwing]

So the scenes in the beginning with Beth still in Texas and driving back to Montana, and Kayce and family fixing up their new house, were to establish what they were doing at the time that John was killed.  And we saw the actual murder.  

Did Rip go back to Texas or is he still in town?  I don't think we saw him leaving or have seen Beth on the phone with him.

17 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Why is there no security in Jamie’s office? Anyone can come in and hurt him, his assistant and anyone else they feel like. 

He works in the state capitol building, presumably there are metal detectors at the entrances.  That would prevent guns and knives.  It doesn't prevent Beth or Kayce coming in and slapping or beating the hell out of him.  But presumably, the secretary would normally call security who would come to assist.  In the previous episode when Beth was slapping him around, the Market Equities guy barked at the assistant to call security, and Jamie told her not to.

17 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Asked the same question about the Governor's mansion. Did I miss the bad guys disarming or worse a crew of armed, young stud security personnel, or was there really only one middle-aged guy on duty guarding JD and responding to sounds of shots fired? 

This part is absolutely ridiculous.  Presumably, the Governor's Mansion would have armed security guards.  Not just one dude sitting in a booth who thought it was odd that the security system got deactivated.  Since some of John's actions had proven unpopular, you would think that there would be an increased presence of security.

7 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

So, was Sarah whacked because she called the guys she hired to whack John and they're covering their tracks, or was she whacked because Market Equities wanted her gone so whacking John wouldn't lead back to them? They could be two different sets of assassins. The timing would say the burner phone did her in. Oh hell, as long as she's gone I don't care. Karma ventilated Jamie's evil girlfriend!

It seems evident that the guy she hired to do the hit is now covering their tracks.  I was surprised she was killed so quickly and easily.  Can't say I will miss her.

At this point, Jamie is toast and he knows it.  He was on the phone with her when she was killed.  He knows that his number is in her phone.  I would think he will try and retrieve the phone but there will still be records.  He can try and explain this away but I don't see any scenario in which he gets away with it.

If he somehow comes out of all of this free and smelling like roses, it would be a sad ending to the series.  To me the only plausible endings would be 1) prison for conspiracy to commit murder, 2) suicide, or 3) getting killed by the team that Sarah hired.

Edited November 25 by blackwing

[Snazzy Daisy]

No more half-naked Sarah Atwood. Thank god!!!

Beth “felt it” when it happened. Hmm OK. 🙄

Quote

“You leave him to me.”

Beth feeling territorial about one brother killing another brother. What a petty bitch.

Does Tate have to say “get a room” in every episode? Geez.

The assassination of John Dutton was sloppy for professional hitmen. Didn’t they say no poison, no injection etc. because everything is traceable?

Kayce is channeling his inner John Dutton. There’s no stopping him to get to the truth. He knows chokehold maneuver when he sees one. 

Quote

“How do you hit both sides of your neck and your forehead on the floor?”

Lynelle sees right through Jamie.

Quote

“Be careful what you undo, Jamie. And who you undo it for.”

Sarah’s destroyed burner phone in Jamie’s bin still has a simcard in it with her last calls to the black op guy. And Jamie doesn’t know this. 😬

 

Edited November 25 by Snazzy Daisy

[Daff]

20 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Asked the same question about the Governor's mansion. Did I miss the bad guys disarming or worse a crew of armed, young stud security personnel, or was there really only one middle-aged guy on duty guarding JD and responding to sounds of shots fired? 

My questions 5 minutes in. You’re telling me he didn’t see the mansion and grounds suddenly go dark? Really miffed that they felt like they had to show us what really happened this many episodes in-we all knew how it went down. All this non-sequential crap is bush league. Happened to hear Allman Bros. Jessica while driving today. Came home and watched Field of Dreams, just because. Only want to get through these last few episodes, no interest in the Oil story, may start 1923, because HM and HF,  but no more for me, especially since the story teller can’t sequence himself out of a bushel basket!

I have to add to this, maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Something in the ongoing action usually triggers an explanatory “flashback”. There IS NONE of that here. There’s just a bunch of scenes in the can, edited in psychotic order.

Edited November 25 by Daff

[bunnyface]

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Beth “felt it” when it happened. Hmm OK. 🙄

To be fair, Kayce felt it too.  He initially thought it was a bad dream.  I know people who swear they've had a similar experience, "knowing" when something happened.

Seems the only person who didn't feel it was Jamie.  

[lovesnark]

36 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

To be fair, Kayce felt it too.  He initially thought it was a bad dream.  I know people who swear they've had a similar experience, "knowing" when something happened.

Seems the only person who didn't feel it was Jamie.  

I was skeptical of people knowing when something happened until my Dad died. We were really close and I'd been living at his house for the last month or so of his life and had been caring for him during the hospice process. I was in his room at 5:00am, gave him his meds and we talked for a while. I went back to sleep and woke up suddenly, sort of startled awake about two hours later which was odd because I was pretty exhausted. He breathed his last breath when I got to his room. After that experience, I no longer discount people when they say they knew something happened.

I'm glad Sarah is gone, but I was hoping she would have to suffer some sort of humiliation before she was offed. Her character was such a smug, nasty bitch, I was sort of hoping someone would wipe the smug smirk off her face before they did her in.

[NeenerNeener]

On 11/24/2024 at 9:49 PM, Madding crowd said:

Are we supposed to celebrate bullying now? I still like the music and scenery but hate the storyline.

Sheridan doesn't write Hallmark movies; he writes "red in tooth and claw". This show has always been about people trying to protect what they have from other people trying to take it, right from the pilot episode where Monica's brother killed Lee Dutton and Kayce killed Monica's brother. Tate was snatched by a militia, the Beck brothers tried to kill Kayce, John and a whole herd of cows, somebody sent a package bomb to Beth, some rando workman was raping and murdering Native American girls, John was gunned down on the side of the road while trying to change some lady's tire (and she was killed too) and Jamie's biological father tried to talk Jamie into killing John before Jamie killed him instead. The Market Equity folks want to poison the water on the Rez and pave the rest of Montana.

Jamie has never been a hero; he's always been weak-willed and easily led by someone promising to help make him more than he can be on his own. 

The closest this show ever got to  an old style Western was filler scenes on the 6666, and some rodeo stuff and there is a fair amount of bullying in that, too. It just doesn't involve murder, or at least not usually. I forgot about the horse thieves that got bounced around in the back of the trailer until they died.

Sheridan's two other shows in the Yellowstone universe are in the same vein, as is Lioness, the one about special ops soldiers in the Middle East.

Edited November 26 by NeenerNeener

[Madding crowd]

The spin off shows had much more nuance in my opinion than this one ever did. I realize the characters were written to be a certain way but I don’t find it realistic or enjoyable to watch. In real life a woman like Beth who drank as much as she does and was physically violent to everyone who disagreed with her would not be considered any sort of role model and would end up in jail. 

[NeenerNeener]

Nobody on this show is a role model, or is supposed to be. The mugs and things being advertised during commercials are a blatant cash grab.

 

ETA: I guess I think of this show as The Sopranos in Montana. There was nobody I thought of as a role model in that show, and yet I couldn't stop watching. And there was a ton of Sopranos merch when that was on, too.

ETA 2: I googled "Sopranos merchandise" and got 11 different web sites just on the first page. It's not about those characters being role models, anymore than it's about Yellowstone characters being role models. It's about what might sell right before Christmas.

Edited November 26 by NeenerNeener

[bunnyface]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

The spin off shows had much more nuance in my opinion than this one ever did. I realize the characters were written to be a certain way but I don’t find it realistic or enjoyable to watch. In real life a woman like Beth who drank as much as she does and was physically violent to everyone who disagreed with her would not be considered any sort of role model and would end up in jail. 

I have to ask, why do you continue to watch?  Is it to see if they get their comeuppance?  (A perfectly valid reason.)   Just asking what you get out of it if you hate it this much.  

[Crashcourse]

It's not uncommon to hate watch shows just to see how they end.  I'm doing that with this show to see who survives and who takes a dirt nap. 

[Madding crowd]

I like the scenery, the cowboy stuff and the music. I don’t even mind the negotiations and business about the ranch. I don’t like the violence and I think it’s a valid thing to dislike.

Edited to add: I have watched and loved some violent shows like Breaking Bad. But the show runners never insisted Walter White was some kind of role model. The fact that the show sells tee shirts and glasses saying “Go all Beth Dutton on them” and “Take them to the train station “ indicates that it is cool to beat the crap out of someone rather than file a lawsuit, call the police, or handle disputes in a normal way. 

Edited November 26 by Madding crowd

[bunnyface]

3 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I like the scenery, the cowboy stuff and the music. I don’t even mind the negotiations and business about the ranch. I don’t like the violence and I think it’s a valid thing to dislike.

Totally understand.  The ranching scenes and cowboy stuff are my favorite parts too, because they are closer to my real life.  But they seem to be less popular scenes to others.  I tend to watch things to the bitter end, because I'm faulty like that, so hate watching is also a valid response.  

[MDL]

22 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Didn’t they say no poison, no injection etc. because everything is traceable?

My guess is that the injection contained the drug that they planted (in pill form), probably an antidepressant,traceable,  to further support the suicide angle.

[NeenerNeener]

For what it's worth there are no female writers on this show according to the IMDB and only one female director. It's basically a sausage fest, so I'd be willing to bet that's part of the reason some of the female characters don't always ring true.

[TVbitch]

Jamie should just take himself to the Train Station and hurl himself over right now. 

Yeah, this show has always been about "real men" solving issues and getting justice through killin' and fists and no pansy ass stuff like lawyers and courts and cops. 

I hate watch too, cuz judging by my 40 year General Hospital addiction, I have a thing for bad soaps 😁. 

[Winston Wolfe]

19 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

ETA: I guess I think of this show as The Sopranos in Montana.

I always wonder what a battle between the NJ and Montana mobs would look like. My take is John Dutton was more dangerous than Tony Soprano could ever be. Tony always spent too much time hand-wringing, IMO. John quickly decided when people had to be taken out.

Edited November 27 by Winston Wolfe

[barshi50]

They took John's service pistol that he gave to Kayce from the Livestock Commission office safe. How did they know it was there?

And I didn't know John was in the sevice. Never been mentioned before...(Maybe that's a part of 1944 series?)

[rhygirl720]

Great cinematography. Other than that, I keep wondering why we had to wait so long for this!? Horrible writing. The time jumps are bizarre. The women have always been badly written but now it's like pervasive. Where is the nuance?

At this point I'm here for the horses....and Teeter, Rainwater and Mo. That's all I got.

 

[Moose135]

11 hours ago, barshi50 said:

They took John's service pistol that he gave to Kayce from the Livestock Commission office safe. How did they know it was there?

And I didn't know John was in the sevice. Never been mentioned before...

'Service weapon' is a common reference to the weapon a law enforcement officer carries on duty. I think that was what they meant when referring to John's 'service' pistol, not that he had prior military service.

[Genus]

On 11/25/2024 at 3:11 AM, Msample said:

I’ve seen better security at a local bank branch than the governors mansion . 

 

 

I've seen better security at McDonalds

On 11/25/2024 at 11:39 PM, bunnyface said:

To be fair, Kayce felt it too.  He initially thought it was a bad dream.  I know people who swear they've had a similar experience, "knowing" when something happened.

Seems the only person who didn't feel it was Jamie.  

That's because Jamie's adopted and not a real Dutton. 

[bunnyface]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:23 AM, Genus said:

That's because Jamie's adopted and not a real Dutton. 

Yes, I'm aware.

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I've seen a few governor's mansions, most have no security inside except during special occasions.    I was shocked to see where the governor's mansion in Georgia is.   

[KittyQ]

On 11/25/2024 at 3:39 PM, bunnyface said:

To be fair, Kayce felt it too.  He initially thought it was a bad dream.  I know people who swear they've had a similar experience, "knowing" when something happened.

Seems the only person who didn't feel it was Jamie.  

(Bolding added) Duhdudunmmmmm.........

Because a) Jamie is an awful, awful, person, b) Jamie isn't Dutton's bio son, c) Jamie is in on the murder

I still really hate how they have corrupted the Jamie character from the competent person he was in Season 1. Now he's just a cringing scaredy cat who is everyone's punching bag. People just walk into his hoffice and home and haul off and hit him, and he mostly just takes it.

(I also really dislike the trope that people should "feel" something when a loved one is hurt or dead. It suggests that anyone who doesn't have that experience is somehow deficient, not that the person who does have it is unusual.)

[KittyQ]

My other complaint about this episode is the Medical Examiner.  She's no Quincy or CSI person, for sure. It seemed as though she was going for the easy answers, as if the dead person was Joe Schmoe and not the Governor. For heaven's sake, Kayce, who is not a medical doctor, seemed to know more about how to do a thorough examination than she did. 

(My husband pointed out that she didn't even take off her pearl necklace when doing the examination, which I would suspect is not something MEs typically would do). 

[bunnyface]

51 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

I still really hate how they have corrupted the Jamie character from the competent person he was in Season 1. Now he's just a cringing scaredy cat who is everyone's punching bag. People just walk into his hoffice and home and haul off and hit him, and he mostly just takes it.

 

I guess that's my complaint too.  Jamie truly loved his father when the show started.  Maybe that changed somewhat over time, but he did truly love him.  He only went to law school because John needed a lawyer.  He wanted to be a cowboy.  Hell, he didn't even know where Harvard was, so obviously he wasn't exactly Harvard material in the beginning.  John got him that because it's what John wanted.  He did whatever his father wanted.  He even killed his biological father to protect John.  So if everyone "felt" something, it seems like Jamie would have also.  He didn't know it was happening when it happened.  He didn't know about it until afterward.  So to set him apart again as "not a true Dutton" seems cruel, even if the entire arc of the show is to shovel shit on him while he's still doing whatever his father wants.  He was truly heartbroken over his father's death when he didn't know the whole story.  He said what he said (about killing Beth!) in haste.  We all say shit we shouldn't in the heat of the moment.  But he loved his father to the very end.

[barshi50]

22 hours ago, bunnyface said:

I guess that's my complaint too.  Jamie truly loved his father when the show started.  Maybe that changed somewhat over time, but he did truly love him.  He only went to law school because John needed a lawyer.  He wanted to be a cowboy.  Hell, he didn't even know where Harvard was, so obviously he wasn't exactly Harvard material in the beginning.  John got him that because it's what John wanted.  He did whatever his father wanted.  He even killed his biological father to protect John.  So if everyone "felt" something, it seems like Jamie would have also.  He didn't know it was happening when it happened.  He didn't know about it until afterward.  So to set him apart again as "not a true Dutton" seems cruel, even if the entire arc of the show is to shovel shit on him while he's still doing whatever his father wants.  He was truly heartbroken over his father's death when he didn't know the whole story.  He said what he said (about killing Beth!) in haste.  We all say shit we shouldn't in the heat of the moment.  But he loved his father to the very end.

Yes to all of this. He was a more than competent lawyer; he was always trying to please his father and get his approval. It didn't help that nasty Beth was on him all the time about something she asked his help for (and didn't take any respondsibility herself) when they were both young. He has had some missteps along the way (trying to campaign for Attoney General when his father needed him,  talking to the reporter (and then accidentally killing her), seeking out his bio dad, among others). He was never allowed to gain any kind of confidence.

He really didn't want to become a lawyer. He wanted to help run the ranch. He says many times during the series how he loves the ranch and his family (well, maybe excluding Beth). The only time he seemed really happy was when he spent that short time living in the bunkhouse and being a cowboy.

He had a lot of the right ideas to save the ranch; they didn't align with John's and so he was deemed disloyal.

Edited December 1 by barshi50

[Dobian]

On 11/26/2024 at 4:43 AM, NeenerNeener said:

Nobody on this show is a role model, or is supposed to be. The mugs and things being advertised during commercials are a blatant cash grab.

 

ETA: I guess I think of this show as The Sopranos in Montana. There was nobody I thought of as a role model in that show, and yet I couldn't stop watching. And there was a ton of Sopranos merch when that was on, too.

No, it's Dallas without the fun stuff.  They moved the action from the Ewing Ranch up to Montana.  Oil has been replaced by cattle.  Daddy John is Jock Ewing.   Beth is a combination of J.R. and Sue Ellen.  Kayce is Bobby.  Monica is Pam.  Rip is Ray Krebs.  Jamie is Cliff Barnes.  I said "Dallas!" during the very first episode of season 1.

Edited December 7 by Dobian