Chit-Chat: The Feels

[nokat]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Some of them voted for him, though.

Those with enough weapons at home to kill anyone who doesn't fit their "ideal."

[bluegirl147]

34 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

You mean the people he called "suckers" and "losers"?

And the ones who will be expected to show up for his birthday parade.

[peacheslatour]

46 minutes ago, nokat said:

Those with enough weapons at home to kill anyone who doesn't fit their "ideal."

That's the joke. I know quite a few liberals and especially progressives who are quite well armed and trained as well. They just don't talk about it incessantly like conservatives do.

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They may be obligated to invite either the sitting president or VP. The 2024 speaker was Biden, and 2023's was Kamala. 

I think you're correct. J.D. Vance gave the Commencement address at the Naval Academy yesterday. 

[tearknee]

8 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

That's the joke. I know quite a few liberals and especially progressives who are quite well armed and trained as well. They just don't talk about it incessantly like conservatives do.

But less willing to immediately open fire. That is exploitable.

[peacheslatour]

33 minutes ago, tearknee said:

But less willing to immediately open fire. That is exploitable.

You underestimate how pissed off people are. Fury can make the most peaceable man reach his breaking point.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Such a disgrace today at West Point. The President of the United States of America addressing our country's future military leaders while wearing a stupid campaign hat and babbling nonsense. 

And the GOP still has the nerve to act like they're the party that's all about "supporting the troops". 

[annzeepark914]

I looked at a photo of the cadets listening to Trump jabbering away about "trophy wives" & other nonsensical crap and wondered what they were thinking.  They sure got a reality check today re: the IQ and sanity of their Commander in Chief. 

[Affogato]

12 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I looked at a photo of the cadets listening to Trump jabbering away about "trophy wives" & other nonsensical crap and wondered what they were thinking.  They sure got a reality check today re: the IQ and sanity of their Commander in Chief. 

But fortunately the transcript won’t be availlable, so Trump won’t have to be embarrassed 

[Lantern7]

I think that if the nation were to get into a war that could be considered morally unjust, there will be a lot of desertions. We’ve had some Presidents who were sketchy on a good day, but this is a man (loose definition) who sneers at the soldier even as he touts the force that he gets to command. Of course, desertion is a serious crime in itself, and I can see the possibility of the government moving from making the lives of immigrants a living hell to going after the families of soldiers who had enough. Yes, I think Trump and those under him would be that heinous to make that move.

Honestly, I don’t get why those that aren’t straight white guys would want to fight for their country when the President demonizes and denies them. It’s a no-win situation. Great for them to join up because I’ve probably never been fit (physically, mentally, emotionally) to join up, but why bother for an administration that shits on them?

[peacheslatour]

22 minutes ago, Affogato said:

But fortunately the transcript won’t be availlable, so Trump won’t have to be embarrassed 

True but the internet never forgets.

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

True but the internet never forgets.

And thank god as well for late night talk shows.  Sometimes I feel like they're the only ones covering the craziness.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

True but the internet never forgets.

Introspection??
”Monte Carlo” does rhyme with “Mar-a-Lago.”

 

[Kemper]

Mother/Daughter lunch and shopping today in a large mall. While strolling, we noticed a new store had opened... "The Christian Store" ... I think that was the name. 

It resembled a small-scale Barnes and Noble. Soft music, muted colors; like a designer from HGTV had staged it. Beautiful diaries, journals; understated throw pillow covers, pretty jewelry.  I decided to look for a rosary; lost mine decades ago. (yes, lapsed Catholic speaking) The idea of fingering the  beads seems like a wonderful, calming thing to do in these times. I could not find any so asked the young man behind the counter. 

He seemed shocked and said "we don't have them" ... I stated that Catholics are Christian. He replied, again, "we don't have them" and that was that. Is it just me that finds that shocking? Are we undergoing a new version of Christianity? 

Edited Sunday at 03:10 AM by Kemper

[Dimity]

2 minutes ago, Kemper said:

The idea of fingering the  beads seems like a wonderful, calming thing to do in these times.

I have all my mother's rosaries, including one that was blessed by the Pope.  I too am a lapsed Catholic but I find saying the rosary to be very soothing.   Especially as you say right now.

3 minutes ago, Kemper said:

He seemed shocked and said "we don't have them" ... I stated that Catholics are Christian. He replied, again, "we don't have them" and that was that. Is it just me that finds that shocking? Are we undergoing a new version of Christianity? 

I was on a FB group and someone listed a few religions (I can't recall  now what the context was) anyway they posted something along the lines of "Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Catholic, Christian..."  A few of us pointed out that Catholics are Christian and she argued with us and refused to accept that this was true.  Wow.

[Absolom]

Most religious bookstores here are Muslim, Buddhist, Mormon, or Christian and the the Christian bookstores are split between protestant and Catholic.  I think I've been in one Christian bookstore that carried both protestant and Catholic items.

[peacheslatour]

47 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I have all my mother's rosaries, including one that was blessed by the Pope.  I too am a lapsed Catholic but I find saying the rosary to be very soothing.   Especially as you say right now.

I was on a FB group and someone listed a few religions (I can't recall  now what the context was) anyway they posted something along the lines of "Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Catholic, Christian..."  A few of us pointed out that Catholics are Christian and she argued with us and refused to accept that this was true.  Wow.

Jesus established St. Peter as the first Pope gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven, symbolizing his authority. Britannica states that Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, often depicted in art and popular culture, which is why he is often depicted at the gates of heaven.  Is Jesus himself not Christlike enough for them?

[annzeepark914]

@Kemper I was going to click on the "mind blown" emoji but then remembered that as I was reading about this store, I sensed that it was an evangelical store. So I really wasn't shocked. In the late '80s, while walking in downtown Raleigh, a car passed by me. A bumper sticker on it said, "Christians Riding In This Car".  I told my mother about it, saying that people like this had finally ruined the word, Christian, for me. She was appalled that I felt this way, but just a few years later, she agreed.  

[ECM1231]

58 minutes ago, Kemper said:

He seemed shocked and said "we don't have them" ... I stated that Catholics are Christian. He replied, again, "we don't have them" and that was that. Is it just me that finds that shocking? Are we undergoing a new version of Christianity? 

Catholic here, but aren't Catholics the only religion that has/prays the rosary? Most of the religious stores that I have shopped in have catered more to Catholics than Protestant sects. Well, actually , now that I think about it, they were Catholic religious stores. Baptismal items, items for 1st Holy Communion, etc. These are big in the Catholic faith. I don't know enough about Protestantism to say whether or not they are regarded the same. So, perhaps that's the difference. There are Christian religious stores and Catholic religious stores, even though Catholics Are Christian. 

 

 

[nokat]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

And thank god as well for late night talk shows.  Sometimes I feel like they're the only ones covering the craziness.

For me it is Late Night with Colbert and the Daily Show. They show the crazy.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I looked at a photo of the cadets listening to Trump jabbering away about "trophy wives" & other nonsensical crap and wondered what they were thinking.  They sure got a reality check today re: the IQ and sanity of their Commander in Chief. 

Statistically, it's likely the majority of them voted for him.  If they needed until today to get a reality check - which I don't have any hope their subdued response indicates - they're fucking idiots.

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

He seemed shocked and said "we don't have them" ... I stated that Catholics are Christian. He replied, again, "we don't have them" and that was that. Is it just me that finds that shocking? Are we undergoing a new version of Christianity?

I know just enough about religion to know I want nothing to do with it, particularly Christianity or Islam given their disproportionately destructive influence on society, but I know from a long history of following comedian Kathleen Madigan's (raised Catholic, still considers herself Catholic just more of origin rather than of a practiced faith, who travels the country extensively, cities of all sizes) stories it's typical for many non-Catholic Christians to regard Catholics as being as separate a religion as any other.  In school, I grew up with mostly Protestant, Jewish, and atheist/agnostic/vague belief but non-practicing kids, but my closest neighborhood friends were two sisters from a huge Catholic family, and they talked back then about the "I'm a real Christian" attitude they routinely got from others, so as an adult I was actually surprised when Madigan was surprised by the number of cities she visited in which people told her Catholics were not Christian.

[Soapy Goddess]

16 hours ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

No. That's me wondering why this administration and those who support it prioritize the health and welfare of a car - and by extension a billionaire's pocketbook - over the health and welfare and basic human rights of its citizens and the world at large.

Your belief that there's no way to hold an administration accountable once votes have been cast is incorrect. Impeachment and conviction and the 25th Amendment are there for any Republican in Congress or the Cabinent with a shred of respect for the Constitution and love of democracy to use. Protests, general strikes, a critical mass of the public voting with their dollars, are all options.  Whether there is a nationwide appetite for any of this remains to be seen. 

My POV is all about the violence that's become rampant in our country. No one begrudges your feelings...and no one is against protests. Peaceful protests. But none of them have been peaceful. They are filled with violence, not to mention pushing, shoving, threatening police, damage, destruction, fire, etc. constantly.

[Anela]

13 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

My POV is all about the violence that's become rampant in our country. No one begrudges your feelings...and no one is against protests. Peaceful protests. But none of them have been peaceful. They are filled with violence, not to mention pushing, shoving, threatening police, damage, destruction, fire, etc. constantly.

Like January 6th.

I was looking through some pictures I have saved, earlier, and one was of the man and his mother, who had zip ties, and were looking for Democrats, and Mike Pence. 

And this post by L. Lin Woods:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pro-trump-lawyer-l-lin-wood-tweets-that-pence-executed-2021-1

They were not hired. They were not FBI, or Antifa. 

Edited Sunday at 06:09 AM by Anela

[tres bien]

7 hours ago, Affogato said:

But fortunately the transcript won’t be availlable, so Trump won’t have to be embarrassed 

He will never be embarrassed by anything he says or does

Trump has no shame 

[PRgal]

8 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I looked at a photo of the cadets listening to Trump jabbering away about "trophy wives" & other nonsensical crap and wondered what they were thinking.  They sure got a reality check today re: the IQ and sanity of their Commander in Chief. 

The volume was off when I saw it on CNN and I’m pretty sure the cadets were rolling their eyes.  I saw that some gave him a standing O but most sat still.  

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, nokat said:

For me it is Late Night with Colbert and the Daily Show. They show the crazy.

In addition to “The Late Show With Stephen Colbert” and  “The Daily Show” (Jon Stewart, Ronny Chieng, Jordan Klepper, Michael Kosta, Desi Lydic), other excellent satirical sources of political news and commentary include:

• Seth Meyers’ “A Closer Look” segments 
• Jimmy Kimmel’s opening monologue
• John Oliver’s award-winning “Last Week Tonight”

 

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Dimity said:

I have all my mother's rosaries, including one that was blessed by the Pope.  I too am a lapsed Catholic but I find saying the rosary to be very soothing.   Especially as you say right now.

I was on a FB group and someone listed a few religions (I can't recall  now what the context was) anyway they posted something along the lines of "Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Catholic, Christian..."  A few of us pointed out that Catholics are Christian and she argued with us and refused to accept that this was true.  Wow.

Many decades ago I was in a Lutheran church in Iowa. A missionary was telling is he had been stoned while doing his work. My family was horrified to here be had been trying to convert the heathen Catholics. But yes, a lot of prejudice in the midwest when I was there, growing up. 

[Affogato]

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

My POV is all about the violence that's become rampant in our country. No one begrudges your feelings...and no one is against protests. Peaceful protests. But none of them have been peaceful. They are filled with violence, not to mention pushing, shoving, threatening police, damage, destruction, fire, etc. constantly.

Well, no. The last major violent protest we had was january 6. A bunch of people, at the invitation of the sitting president, attempted to overthrow the government by force and violence (including the murder of the sitting vice president, because he intended to do his job). They attempted to overthrow the government by force and violence because the sitting president had legally lost the election. There is no doubt, then and now, that he had legally lost the election. This violence has been celebrated by the then/now sitting president, who has pardoned and praised them for their action. In other words, Trump instigated and rewarded people who protested violently. Your vote at work.

I understand that the right wing media does not give a lot of information, but many of the protests around George Floyd, and i attended some, were violent because of police action. Police attacked the protesters. Information on how to deal with this and what to do if arrested is widely disseminated to protesters to avoid these actions.

I have been to over ten protests this year and have several more on my calendar. I was at a peaceful protest of elderly people protesting just yesterday. No one was violent or even unpleasant. 

Last summer there were riots inthe UK. There have been riots in many places in the world. There have really not been many in the US and frankly, most of the unpleasantness in the US has been instigated by police action in recent years.  

Now, in 1983 Joel Schumacher made a movie,  Michael Douglas stars, named “Falling Down”.   It is a character study of how someone can be pushed over the edge, and the kinds of annoyances we deal with, and Douglas’s character, yes, was someone who was predisposed. But When you look at someone shooting someone for no apparent reason, there is probably a reason and he is probably responding to outside pressures. Again, most people don’t respond with violence, but some do. In any case it is a vivid case study, and a good role for Michael Douglas.  

 

Edited Sunday at 12:15 PM by Affogato

[lookeyloo]

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

My POV is all about the violence that's become rampant in our country. No one begrudges your feelings...and no one is against protests. Peaceful protests. But none of them have been peaceful. They are filled with violence, not to mention pushing, shoving, threatening police, damage, destruction, fire, etc. constantly.

I think saying "none of them have been peaceful" is maybe a bit overreach? I know that I marched in Atlanta on the Hands Off Peaceful Protest March with my husband and son in law and it was totally peaceful.  We were there for a while at the start, marched the entire route, and it ended at the State Capital and was peaceful.  Local news reported it was peaceful with no incidents.  It was mostly a diverse group but we were alerted as to why it was not completely diverse - because of the fear of ICE hiding in plain sight.  Not all people of diversity are illegal, but, that didn't seem to matter.  And y'all know what I mean by diverse.  And, I am guessing with all the marches that day, a lot of them were peaceful.

[tres bien]

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

Some of them voted for him, though.

Yeah but doesn’t give him a free rein on babbling on incessantly about inappropriate nonsense about trophy wives and yachts during a graduation ceremony. Anywhere 

He’s an unhinged nut that his advisors as such and the MAGA world wave off as Trump being Trump

Edited Sunday at 12:44 PM by tres bien

[Yeah No]

On 5/22/2025 at 9:14 AM, shapeshifter said:

I never gave him a chance because of the Access Hollywood video and my own numerous escapes from his type. 

Plus my Dad — a decent man who started working in a store for 25¢/wk as a kid in the Depression — declared Trump was Not a "businessman."
I can't ask him now, but I imagine the grifting was the main reason for Dad's opinion, more than the bankruptcies, although they kind of go hand-in-hand with trump. Just ask Elon.

My father called Trump a "Dangerous nut" during his first term. My mother hated him because he was a womanizer and obvious misogynist but she died in 2001 so she thankfully never had to deal with him as president. I never liked him either and never voted for him, but given that he was president anyway I hoped that maybe he was in earnest and had reformed somewhat so I tried to keep an open mind. Of course that didn't last very long. As soon as he made that famous comment about there being "good people on both sides" my BS meter was pegged and it was all downhill from there. I was like, "WTF was I thinking?" At the time I had just broken my arm pretty badly and lost my job for no good reason while on worker's comp. by the time Trump was inaugurated so I was dealing with a lot personally that had an affect on me. I was trying to keep a positive attitude.

P.S. You can be my editor any time, but I can't afford to pay you that much, LOL 😉

[Yeah No]

On 5/22/2025 at 11:43 AM, Affogato said:

Also, stop with the logical fallacies. Pulling funding for healthcare and snap and headstart from many many children is not offset by clapping for a child with cancer, wherever that happened. It is irrelevant, clapping for one child, given the other things that are being done to hurt many many children. 

True and it's also a false equivalency. If that's all you have to counter what Trump is doing that's not very much and nowhere near on the level of what is happening every day thanks to Trump. Republicans are always overlooking or exaggerating everything Democrats do. Democrats don't have to exaggerate very small examples into huge transgressions because Republicans are committing far worse atrocities by the dozens EVERY SINGLE DAY now. I just can't get over all the stuff many Republicans don't even register as bad and/or evil that's being done by Trump and his bunch all the time. Even stuff that might affect them. It's mind boggling. Even grad. school in Psychology didn't prepare me for mass denial like this. I knew about it and understood it intellectually, but the emotional impact of witnessing it is on a much greater level. The only apt examples lately I can think of date back to Nazi Germany. It's pretty telling (and scary) when every other comment on news articles these days finds a very relevant analogy between what Trump is doing that day and Nazi Germany.

[Yeah No]

On 5/22/2025 at 3:22 PM, kittykat said:

It's the fallacious assumption that if you're poor, you're lazy. Why can't you just pull yourself up by the bootstraps from rags to riches, the Horatio Alger myth. The real truth is that the working poor are some of the hardest working and most stressed out people in this country. 

It's not a simple bootstrap pull nowadays. You have to subscribe to the app to even access the bootstraps and then there's probably gold, silver and bronze level bootstraps and you're only going to unlock certain opportunities if you have gold level which one always can't pay.  Plus the bootstrap app people can just decide you're getting too much of a good thing and per the contract terminate your bootstraps whenever they please.

And I know anti welfare people's biggest argument is that they don't want to support other people's bad decisions.  Why should we support someone get out of jail trying to rehabilitate themselves or a single mom who got pregnant in her teens?  Shouldn't they reap the consequences of their actions?  I mean they already have haven't they? What's wrong with a little sense of community in helping those with less? Even if they're not great people a little gesture towards someone struggling goes a long way.

And why are poor people less worthy of help than the rich? Remember when all those big companies went down, billions were lost and thousands of people lost their retirement savings?  Did we tell them "sorry you fucked up, now pay back all the people you screwed over by losing their savings." Nope we bailed them out, gave them more money so they could keep financing their affluent lives while screwing over the little guy.

So yeah, if we can subsidize the rich, we can throw a line to the poor as well.

Bear with me here because I agree with you, but I'm understanding this from an angle that back in the day was covered in PBS documentaries on the subject of the "culture of poverty" which lead to a "permanent underclass" in our country that was unable to move upward. Of course conservatives blamed the people for this and harped on "personal responsibility". Liberals and most Dems. blamed prejudice and racism for it. So of course there were many local and "grassroots" federally funded programs to help people out of their plights that Republicans hated because they didn't want their tax dollars going to help anyone less fortunate than them especially if they were black or brown. They felt that they should get the benefits of those tax dollars or pay less in taxes. It wasn't even about who was personally responsible, they just didn't want to help the poor if they weren't white. Even if it didn't cost them a DIME. So of course they publicly claimed that it was because and they didn't feel obligated to help people that were personally responsible for their poverty. But we all know it was racism and prejudice through and through. If they were white and personally responsible they'd want to help them, I'm sure. But these days we have people so selfish and uncaring maybe not all of them would!

Also, we like to believe we have a society where upward mobility is possible but these days I don't see it as possible as it was at one time. Ironically that's part of the "MAGA" philosophy - to bring America back to those glory days when even the "working class Joe" could aspire to rise above his class. But Trump, etc. are doing everything possible to make that impossible for them and they don't even see it. He has them so schmoozed they still think he's trying to make things better for them. And he's even convinced some people of color of this too!

[Yeah No]

On 5/22/2025 at 4:12 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

American Protestantism also heavily influences this. The idea that being poor is a moral failing. And, if you just said the "right" prayer to the "right" Jesus and tithe your 10% to the "right" pastor and church then you will be rich ergo those who are poor are not doing those things.

Protestants, yes, but only certain Protestant faiths come from this angle, esp. those that are Calvinistic in philosophy, such as Reformed Churches, Presbyterian, some Baptist and Congregational churches and according to Google AI some Anglican churches, although in my experience in Episcopal churches here in the U.S. that was decidedly NOT the case.

On 5/22/2025 at 6:23 PM, Kemper said:

kittykat ... I wanted to "quote" your entire post but figured to just post my response.

You are right on every point you made. I volunteer at a local food pantry run by my church. I was shocked and saddened at the responses by the supposed Christians that attend; some on the Vestry, re the Pantry. Their (not all) attitude is - people who visit The Pantry are "working the system". When we gave out turkeys for Thanksgiving, one of them brought the turkeys In his huge pickup with the Trump/Vance banner flying. I was giving out bags with dressing mix, canned veggies, etc.  I usually check off the people as they come to pick their turkeys up (they have to preregister). I always greet them (at this point I know most of their names) and say "Happy Thanksgiving" ... and chat for a few minutes. They are beaming and so very grateful. The three guys who were "volunteering" with me just sat there.  I finally sniped at them "would it hurt you to wish them a Happy Thanksgiving" and could tell by their looks that I was an alien from Mars. 

I am a lapsed Catholic; Mr. Kemper came from a Southern Baptist family. We chose a church - won't name the denomination, but - whose service was almost identical to the Catholic. All Mr. Kemper wished for was a minister who could give a sermon in 10 minutes. His thought? If they can't get their point across in 10 minutes, they should not be preaching. Growing up, he spent hours on Sundays, listening to preachers. He liked to play golf on Sunday afternoons. 😎 My point? We should not take for granted that churches who are supposedly inclusive and - shall I say - liberal .... some members can be just as intolerant as the ones who are known for it.

Yes, and thank you for recognizing that it's coming from "some members" and is not the official position of the church. In my time in Episcopal churches they were all very inclusive and liberal in their philosophies and decidedly not Calvinist. My last church was what is called in the U.S. "Anglo Catholic" and as the name implies the philosophy is more toward Catholicism than the hard line of Calvinism. And yet, just as you experienced we had some members that seemed more Calvinist in their beliefs despite that.

Also, I don't think we should neglect the affect of the popularization of the idea of "gaming the system" that conservative media has been churning out and it's finding its way into church congregations, regrettably. I have no doubt some people do game systems, but not on any grand scale like the conservative media wants people to believe. That sounds to me like someone that has been influenced by the conservative media, not necessarily their religious philosophy. And THAT's sad.

[Eri]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Statistically, it's likely the majority of them voted for him.  If they needed until today to get a reality check - which I don't have any hope their subdued response indicates - they're fucking idiots.

Someone once described New York as a red state with one huge blue city which I feel tracks. I have a friend who is a military spouse and they recently left West Point some months past - she said you didn't have to go too far away from West Point before you started seeing a bunch of Trump signs and lifted pickups everywhere.

[Yeah No]

 

On 5/22/2025 at 8:59 PM, Dimity said:

I think most of the lawmakers pushing this narrative haven't been in a store or restaurant recently.

Or they are just as ignorant of what life is like for many adults and seniors as "the kids" are. I just saw some comments about how 'all baby boomers' are   rich and living in million dollar homes they bought for $5,000.  Sigh.  Read these comments on the same day as I was in a restaurant where the server had to be 70 if she was a day.  Clearly she was shleping heavy trays of food because she was putting in time before her next cruise. But sure, let's talk about how all elderly people are living in luxury. 

Speaking of the crap that media has pushed, this is one of those fallacies based on incomplete statistics that "click bait" media outlets like Yahoo and MSN have pushed to young people. And it fed into their conviction that they have it worse than we did. And of course they were focusing on what their parents had late in life and feeling deprived, as if they expected to have that level of wealth when just starting out without having to do anything to get it. And of course they would totally overlook the sacrifice, risk and effort it took for their parents to reach those goals. They would even go so far as to fiddle with cost of living and other statistics to support their grievance as if double digit unemployment, interest rates and "stagflation" in the late '70s and early '80s was nothing compared to their plight. 

Now of course those media outlets are lately pushing a different narrative that most Baby Boomers don't have nearly enough to retire on, based on better statistics more in context with reality. I'm waiting for how they'll spin this as due to "personal responsibility" because it suits their cause. Unfortunately the damage has already been done and I doubt the reality is going to change their minds now.

Like this article from CBS:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/retirement-baby-boomers-peak-65-financial-crisis/

As one of those "peak Boomers" it discusses myself, I relate to this and agree that it's more in line with reality. And let's also not forget that as a result of Trump and what he's been doing plus pandemic inflation, etc., we are all a little poorer as a result. I am not as confident that my retirement savings is enough to maintain my standard of living as it was even a year ago, and I don't live extravagantly either, not even close.

The truth is that the statistics they were pushing about Boomers dealt in averages, and there is a relatively small number of Boomers in the 1% category that was making us all look much better off than we really are. And they'll spin the fact that many older people are working past retirement age to fit into their grievances, like that they're doing it just because they "like" to work, not because they "need to work", and that they're taking up jobs that should go to younger people. So we can't win, really.

On 5/22/2025 at 9:24 PM, Eri said:

Oh wow, that is so sad! My mother is a caregiver and has very little to retire on so I'm sure she'll be working well past retirement age as long as she's physically able. This is a big obstacle for America, and these families are doing the best they can so I empathize. Lo were the days when a 40 hr/week week job could cover all the necessities. Poverty doesn't discriminate and the work that food pantries do to provide them help is only the decent thing to do. An ounce of prevention for a pound of cure.

My husband is 69 and still working. He never started putting aside money for retirement until a few years ago, mostly because it would have been a hardship for him at his income level and he wanted to participate in the "American Dream" as much as possible. And this is the story for most people in that situation. So not only are people like him in this situation because of their income levels but then they're blamed for it, like it was "their fault". I tried to get him to save but I realize why he didn't do it. I was saving for retirement, but I was taking home a significant amount less because of all that was being withheld from my paycheck. And that included health insurance premiums, which although they were reduced thanks to my jobs subsidizing my health insurance still amounted to a big chunk every week. I was lucky I could afford to do that. But it was rough and I even had to take out an equity loan to pay off my debts at one point, which I later paid off. And we didn't live extravagantly either.

Anyway now I consider myself "lucky" again that I don't have to work because my husband's boss pays him way over what he would make if he were working for himself or pretty much anyone else. I was out of work and looking during the pandemic and getting nowhere anyway. So God bless my husband's boss, who is a millionaire (billionaire?) that came from humble origins. This is THE first time in my life I haven't had to work. But although I am old enough I'm afraid to start withdrawing from my retirement accounts. I do receive a small pension for now but it's been rough on me and I can't contribute that much to the household on it. I will be receiving my Social Security soon but thanks to the rampant inflation over the past few years it isn't worth what it once was even with the COLAs. Even with what I have I can't imagine supporting myself right now without my husband's income. Food prices continue to go up and tariffs are starting to have their effect. I can't even afford salmon anymore. It's insane. So I have a lot of empathy for your mom. It is very sad and unfair that the "caregiving" jobs are the most underpaid. And many of those jobs are held by women.

[Dimity]

21 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And of course they were focusing on what their parents had late in life and feeling deprived, as if they expected to have that level of wealth when just starting out without having to do anything to get it. And of course they would totally overlook the sacrifice, risk and effort it took for their parents to reach those goals.

Social media is amplifying this of course but I can still recall back when I was a young married that my mother had the same opinion of my generation.  That we expected, right out of the gate, to have what her generation had.  There is nothing new under the sun.

21 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

So I have a lot of empathy for your mom. It is very sad and unfair that the "caregiving" jobs are the most underpaid. And many of those jobs are held by women.

Even more professional level jobs that tend to be dominated by women,  like teaching and nursing,  are like this.  The attitude is still very much that you go into these fields because you're dedicated not because you actually expect to earn a decent living.   People seem shocked when they learn that many nurses and teachers actually do get well paid - women in a female dominated profession  getting well paid?  What's the world coming to? 

Edited Sunday at 04:00 PM by Dimity

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Social media is amplifying this of course but I can still recall back when I was a young married that my mother had the same opinion of my generation.  That we expected, right out of the gate, to have what her generation had.  There is nothing new under the sun.

That's interesting because that was not my experience nor as I recall the experience of anyone I know in my age bracket. We were so indoctrinated into starting from nothing and working our way up as passed along to us by our Depression-era children parents that we did not expect to have anything right out of the gate because if we did our parents would put us right in our place, which we didn't dare do. Perhaps that was different for people from different means, areas and circumstances, I don't know. That didn't mean our parents let us starve if they could help us, but it meant our expectations were much lower.

7 minutes ago, Dimity said:

In more professional level jobs like teaching and nursing are like this.  The attitude is still very much that you go into these fields because you're dedicated not because you actually expect to earn a decent living.   People seem shocked when they learn that many nurses and teachers actually do get well paid - women in the 'serving' professions, getting well paid?  What's the world coming to? 

I was always under the impression that teaching was a well paying profession because in the New York City public school system that could be the case, especially with benefits. But after leaving NY I was shocked to find out that this was not the case elsewhere, or with my degree from a grad. school of Education I might have looked into that. But I made better money in the corporate world, unfortunately. I loved Education but did not want to be poor. Today's young people might not respect that decision but that's the kind of compromise my generation used to make without hesitation.

[Dimity]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps that was different for people from different means, areas and circumstances, I don't know

I grew up in the suburbs, middle to upper middle class.  I think probably not that different from the way my own kids grew up.  Baby boomers got tabbed as being entitled when we were still kids, and not without reason.  But like anything generational it still depended on your own particular set of circumstances.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

Someone once described New York as a red state with one huge blue city which I feel tracks. I have a friend who is a military spouse and they recently left West Point some months past - she said you didn't have to go too far away from West Point before you started seeing a bunch of Trump signs and lifted pickups everywhere.

Yup that is very true, and from what I remember people from north of the City and metro. area generally detest that and NYC culture and politics as well as their area being called "upstate" as if its very definition is only significant to where it is in relation to NYC. 

From what I understand it's also similar to different degrees and extents in places like California and Seattle.

And here in CT too. The more rural the towns, the more Red they become. I sometimes shop in a town about 10 miles into the country from where I live and it irked me during the campaign last Fall how right next to the "Welcome to xxx" sign on the road there was a much bigger sign that said in huge capitol letters, "TRUMP". I mean, this sign was in-your-face and HUUUUGE. 🙄

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I grew up in the suburbs, middle to upper middle class.  I think probably not that different from the way my own kids grew up.  Baby boomers got tabbed as being entitled when we were still kids, and not without reason.  But like anything generational it still depended on your own particular set of circumstances.

That's interesting. I don't doubt class level and where one grew up had something to do with that. I just know that in NYC even the middle and upper middle class kids did not have that attitude. Most of them came from parents that did not come from money either which might have had something to do with the values they internalized. I don't remember anyone calling anyone entitled back then and especially in high school I knew a lot of people whose parents had money, even some good friends including my HS sweetheart. If anything they tended to downplay their wealth and not act like they expected their parents to share much of it with them until after death. I did know a few people in college (also in NYC) who came from wealth and flaunted it, but I don't remember them acting entitled, just fortunate!

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

Someone once described New York as a red state with one huge blue city which I feel tracks. I have a friend who is a military spouse and they recently left West Point some months past - she said you didn't have to go too far away from West Point before you started seeing a bunch of Trump signs and lifted pickups everywhere.

That is true in a lot of states. Was it James Carville who described Pennsylvania as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama between them?

Every time a Republican wins the White House the right will tout that map with the overwhelming redness of all the districts that voted red.  Of course they neglect to mention that in a lot of those districts cows outnumber voters. 

[Dimity]

@Yeah No - The point is not what you or I personally experienced.  

The baby boom generation was, and is, an extremely large cohort that  benefited from post war affluence and enjoyed a standard of living and access to education that 'kids today' definitely are not.  

We were a generation on the forefront of huge societal change and many positive moves forward - we also now are the generation being blamed for a lot that went wrong, and is still going wrong, with the world.  Which sucks.

Edited Sunday at 04:48 PM by Dimity

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

@Yeah No - The point is not what you or I personally experienced.  

The baby boom generation was, and is, an extremely large cohort that  benefited from post war affluence and enjoyed a standard of living and access to education that 'kids today' definitely are not.  

We were a generation on the forefront of huge societal change and many positive moves forward - we also now are the generation being blamed for a lot that went wrong, and is still going wrong, with the world.  Which sucks.

Right, only I was responding to a generalized statement with a particular experience that differed, because not all of us were accused of being entitled or were equally as advantaged by some of that post war affluence. But I agree that being blamed for what went wrong in the world is not fair and sucks. A lot of what we're being blamed for was started by people much older than us. We were just trying to succeed in an environment that was already getting more difficult. Trump himself is called a Boomer but he is barely that and has a much older and outdated mentality than anyone MY age.

Edited Sunday at 06:08 PM by Yeah No

[Eri]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

So I have a lot of empathy for your mom. It is very sad and unfair that the "caregiving" jobs are the most underpaid. And many of those jobs are held by women.

Yup, you don't know the half of it and it's mainly women of color. Most of them really are treated like indentured servants by their elderly patients whether via an agency or doing private duty home care with minimal pay, little to no benefits and a lot of dehumanization. My mother works holidays, has no paid vacation and if she does choose to take a day off it's unpaid or she has to pay a friend or someone to cover for her. If she's lucky, she might get a bonus at Christmas. Her 90 yo patient won't hesitate to write her grandson a check, even though they only hear from him once/twice a year, but will easily ignore the financial needs of a woman who keeps her alive and wipes her arse on a daily basis. And yet, the caregivers are "like family" to them. Oh well, priorities I guess!

11 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

That is true in a lot of states. Was it James Carville who described Pennsylvania as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama between them?

Every time a Republican wins the White House the right will tout that map with the overwhelming redness of all the districts that voted red.  Of course they neglect to mention that in a lot of those districts cows outnumber voters. 

Yup - and given that most of the country has shifted rightward, we should all be concerned. We're going to reach a point where it will no longer be red vs blue states but the dichotomy of pro-human vs anti-human. 

Edited Monday at 03:41 AM by Eri

[Eri]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

Even more professional level jobs that tend to be dominated by women,  like teaching and nursing,  are like this.  The attitude is still very much that you go into these fields because you're dedicated not because you actually expect to earn a decent living.   People seem shocked when they learn that many nurses and teachers actually do get well paid - women in a female dominated profession  getting well paid?  What's the world coming to? 

Definitely! There's a reason why the Philippines is renowned for being the leading exporter of professional nurses in the world. Filipino-American nurses became the unknown backbone of the U.S. health industry when they were working the front lines during the pandemic. They constitute about 4% of registered nurses in the U.S., yet they made up approximately 31.5% of COVID-related nurse deaths, while facing a resurgence of anti-Asian hatred in the streets. A documentary titled 'Nurse Unseen (2023)' highlights how these nurses were disproportionately affected and underrepresented in mainstream media.

Equal pay for equal work indeed.

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Dimity said:

I grew up in the suburbs, middle to upper middle class.  I think probably not that different from the way my own kids grew up.  Baby boomers got tabbed as being entitled when we were still kids, and not without reason.  But like anything generational it still depended on your own particular set of circumstances.

So we're (I'm a late GenXer, Xennial, if you will) not the first ones considered "entitled?"  That's a first!!!!!  Maybe it's different for first gen Canadian born Canadians whose parents didn't grow up well-off.  A lot of people in my circle got comments from adults.  Yet many of us didn't hold part time jobs during the school year (save for babysitting).  Working was only for summer break or co-op terms.

ETA:  When I mean first gen Canadian born Canadians, I mean those who are GenXers and Millennials.  Many GenZers, whether they have immigrant parents or not, are second generation middle class.

Edited Sunday at 07:19 PM by PRgal

[kittykat]

3 hours ago, Eri said:

Someone once described New York as a red state with one huge blue city which I feel tracks. I have a friend who is a military spouse and they recently left West Point some months past - she said you didn't have to go too far away from West Point before you started seeing a bunch of Trump signs and lifted pickups everywhere.

Examples like this are why we need to abolish the electoral college.

 

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Now of course those media outlets are lately pushing a different narrative that most Baby Boomers don't have nearly enough to retire on, based on better statistics more in context with reality. I'm waiting for how they'll spin this as due to "personal responsibility" because it suits their cause. Unfortunately the damage has already been done and I doubt the reality is going to change their minds now.

I won't lie, in my 20s I was definitely going toe to toe with my Boomer mom on generation wars.  I would be all "you hoarding affluent boomers" and she'd respond with "you entitled phone-obsessed millennials" (I'm more Xennial) you all know the drill, but of course it's not so simple.  My mom was not an affluent Boomer.  My parents divorced in the late 80s and she worked every job she could starting from the bottom and worked her way up. We never owned a house we did apartments and I remember being the only one of my friends who's parents didn't live in a house and it made me insecure.  I'm not proud of this mindset, I never wanted for the basics.  I was clothed, fed, sheltered, given a weekly allowance but adolescent me was jealous of the other kids all the same.  I now look back at all the hours both my parents worked to get us what we wanted and am grateful for them both.

My own experience is why I've disavowed the whole Generation War arguments.  Every generation has good people and assholes.  Every generation has rich and poor for their own reasons. Yes there is the argument that Boomers grew into a good economy but not everyone benefitted especially, as discussed earlier, if you were a POC. But that doesn't mean every white person prospered as well.

[PRgal]

@kittykat  My son is an Alpha and he hasn't quite reached the age where they start using language that we don't understand.  However, he calls videos on YouTube, "YouTube vids" and says that's what his friends say.  I mean, he's technically NOT wrong, but do you really need to say "vids?"  Or is that to distinguish between long form videos ("vids") and the more reels-like short ones?  What I am NOT a fan of is how assignments are almost all completely digital/screen-focused at his school.  Just about the only time they go "old school" (besides gym) is in art or music.

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@kittykat  My son is an Alpha and he hasn't quite reached the age where they start using language that we don't understand.  However, he calls videos on YouTube, "YouTube vids" and says that's what his friends say.  I mean, he's technically NOT wrong, but do you really need to say "vids?"  Or is that to distinguish between long form videos ("vids") and the more reels-like short ones?  What I am NOT a fan of is how assignments are almost all completely digital/screen-focused at his school.  Just about the only time they go "old school" (besides gym) is in art or music.

At least they still have art and music in school. In the US, they get rid of those things as fast as they can, especially if they interfere with the holiest of holys, football.