Chit-Chat: The Feels

[kittykat]

Right.  NewsRadio is one of my favorite shows of all time but I'm afraid to rewatch because Joe and Andy Dick are such blowhards (and Phil...sniff).  Joe hosts his podcast and treats Democrats like we're the ones who stole his gelato.

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Sure, some average Americans voted for Trump on wallet issues alone but there is a sizable and arguably larger group of Trump supporters that have bought into this fiction that he's like them, an average person that just happened to achieve the American Dream because he was "so smart" or whatever they think he is.

They are really stupid if they think this.  Trump didn’t have to achieve the American Dream, he was born to rich parents and he’s so smart that he had to file for bankruptcy for his casinos six times.  For the average person if they file for bankruptcy once they’ll probably be ruined, Trump was able to be bailed out every time, first by his rich father and then by Russian banks.  

[Enigma X]

My friend sent me this. Not having FB, she also sent me her account info to view it. 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=449472861532821&id=17841401248543333

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

In the last few days I am seeing such an uptick in memes and posts etc on social media where the message essentially is "I have the right to be offensive".  It's going to be a long 4 years.

And this is why I can't quite buy the "it's the economy" argument as the reason they all went for Trump. I saw the same argument in 2016 about how people voted for Trump because of "economic concerns" but it sure was amazing to me how every Trump supporter I encountered couldn't go five minutes without saying something racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/xenophobid. If they did speak of the economy, it was in terms of, "Why are THEY getting more stuff than me, it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!". "They", of course, being any minority group that Trump supporters somehow believed were getting special treatment at the expsense of them. 

The economic concerns, to me, are just a convenient excuse for Trump supporters to use to justfiy treating other groups of people like shit. 

[partofme]

I don’t buy the message at all that there was anything wrong with Democratic messaging or that they didn’t do enough to reach out to the working class.   Kamala’s ads said that anyone earning under $400,000 a year would get a tax cut, that she was going to put things in place to stop price gouging, she was offering $25000 to first time home buyers, was going to do more to bring down the cost of prescription drugs and was going to increase the child tax credit and made it clear that the Trump Tarrif will cost the average family $4000 a year.  Perhaps she could have offered Universal Healthcare or Medicare for All, things I believe in, but as someone said up thread, there are people who would benefit from this that are against it because they want others to suffer.  So I’m no really sure there is anything more the Democrats could do.  Their message is fine.   The problem is the message gets drowned out by Republican lies.  Republicans lie constantly and everywhere in all forms of media, so their lies are all anyone hears and they lie so frequently that they are believed.  Republicans need to lie to win elections because their policies aren’t popular.  They lie constantly and until something is done to stop the lying the Democrats are in a bad place because their truthful message will always be drowned out by the lies. 

Edited Sunday at 10:00 PM by partofme

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, partofme said:

They are really stupid if they think this.  Trump didn’t have to achieve the American Dream, he was born to rich parents and he’s so smart that he had to file for bankruptcy for his casinos six times.  For the average person if they file for bankruptcy once they’ll probably be ruined, Trump was able to be bailed out every time, first by his rich father and then by Russian banks.  

Trump is a snake oil salesman and his base buys what he selling every day.  They think his bankruptcies are good business.  This is a man who has been enabled his entire life.  Everything he has accomplished is because other people facilitated it.  This is not a man who through his own blood sweat and tears reached the heights he has reached. I don't who said it but Trump is the guy born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

The economic concerns, to me, are just a convenient excuse for Trump supporters to use to justfiy treating other groups of people like shit.

Especially because, if your primary concern is the economy, you'd see every mainstream economist say Trump's proposals will make the economy worse, not better, and vote for Harris.

Surveys consistently reveal that when shown two candidates' economic policy proposals without being told which candidate they belong to, the majority of voters prefer the Democratic candidate's proposals. 

They didn't vote for economic policy, they voted for Trump. 

[partofme]

54 minutes ago, kittykat said:

really really hope that this not the strategy the Democrats implement.  If they're really thinking about evolving their plan to placate young, white male voters at the expense of everyone who voted for them this election I will be fucking furious.

It's an unfortunate reality but we need to accept that the younger Generation skewed more conservative this time but as to what the Democrats are going to do to expand their base is a series of conflicting solutions.  Can't go too far left or you'll lose undecided centrists.  Can't go too center or the far left votes third party or not at all. 

Democrats need to stick to their base, liberals and progressives.  When Democrats try to court Republicans they lose because Republicans always vote for Republicans.  This is assuming we even have elections anymore.  

[Makai]

28 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Absolutely true.  And yeah I didn't mean to disagree.  The radicalization is exactly what I was trying to convey you just said it better. Lewis Black is currently headlining my emotional control center. 

I get it. 

28 minutes ago, kittykat said:

As far as a counteractive strategy, that would be to double down on reassuring the groups that voted for them will not abandon them.  Assemble a task force to discover what happened with 12 million no voters and learn how we regain their vote. There are enough white liberal voters out there I say keep the focus on Latino, Black, Indigenous groups, etc because sacrificing their needs for the safety of young white voters is a surefire way of further alienation of our further left base.

Absolutely. 

28 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Pod Save America is a left-leaning panel of men.  They did a spot on Kimmel a few nights ago processing what happened.

I like them from what I’ve seen but that’s more of preaching to the choir thing. 

27 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

For the life of me I will never understand how Joe Rogan became a political influencer.  The guy from Fear Factor?  Really?

I think it’s because it’s ostensibly not a political podcast. It’s billed as a comedy podcast. The seeds were probably always there but it had a huge fan base by the time it began to get more political. 

Something similar happened with the Call Her Daddy podcast. It’s an entertainment podcast that gained as massive following of women. It was always somewhat feminist because the host is a feminist but wasn’t about feminism. Some of the followers didn’t even realize her politics until she interviewed Kamala. 

Edited Sunday at 09:55 PM by Makai

[bluegirl147]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And this is why I can't quite buy the "it's the economy" argument as the reason they all went for Trump. I saw the same argument in 2016 about how people voted for Trump because of "economic concerns" but it sure was amazing to me how every Trump supporter I encountered couldn't go five minutes without saying something racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/xenophobid. If they did speak of the economy, it was in terms of, "Why are THEY getting more stuff than me, it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!". "They", of course, being any minority group that Trump supporters somehow believed were getting special treatment at the expsense of them. 

The economic concerns, to me, are just a convenient excuse for Trump supporters to use to justfiy treating other groups of people like shit. 

I used to have a friend who was self employed. She was a barber and it was an all cash business.  She told me she never declared her true income.  But she would complain ad nauseam about how she didn't qualify for all these things that she saw other people getting.   Our friendship ended right before the pandemic.  I ran into her a couple years later and told her I was going to be a grandma.  My daughter in law had had a tubal reversal.   A few months later I ran into her again and her knowing my daughter in law would have had to have a tubal reversal to get pregnant walked up to me and said I know the government paid for that reversal.   That wasn't true but her saying that told me she was still the same miserable person she always had been.

[Eri]

17 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Especially because, if your primary concern is the economy, you'd see every mainstream economist say Trump's proposals will make the economy worse, not better, and vote for Harris.

Surveys consistently reveal that when shown two candidates' economic policy proposals without being told which candidate they belong to, the majority of voters prefer the Democratic candidate's proposals. 

They didn't vote for economic policy, they voted for Trump. 

Yes exactly. They like Trump because he's a racist and sexist old fart who can say what he likes without consequence, but "the economy" is the socially acceptable (if wrong) answer.

They might see him as a "con man with a heart of gold" but a con man is still a con man.

Edited Sunday at 10:08 PM by Eri

[lookeyloo]

Can I ask why some people still say "Democrat party"?  I think I know, but I've seen it on here.  This isn't against any posters, but in general it has become a thing.  I am guessing it is a form of disrespect?  when I respond on any platform that says that, I say "Republic party", because yes, I am petty that way.

[peacheslatour]

27 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Can I ask why some people still say "Democrat party"?  I think I know, but I've seen it on here.  This isn't against any posters, but in general it has become a thing.  I am guessing it is a form of disrespect?  when I respond on any platform that says that, I say "Republic party", because yes, I am petty that way.

It's been that way since Bill Clinton. It's dismissive and insulting.

[Anela]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Replying to myself here - Also I think one of the reasons Joe won in 2020 is that he was not identified with the "woke left" like other candidates were. He was too old, too establishment Democrat from way back when things were "sane" and not "off the rails left" to be identified with that. I don't remember him spouting woke terminology but I do remember him doing everything he could to distance himself from "the squad". He pushed that he was his own person and didn't kowtow to any factions within the party. And I think given his background, people found that believable. When Kamala tried that people didn't believe it. She was already branded as an ultra-liberal by the right and she is from California which already has a reputation for being about as ultra-liberal as you can get. And being a minority and a woman didn't help the perception. 

and yet AOC and Bernie were out there stumping for Biden, and Kamala.  They supported Biden, when the rest of the party were telling him to step down. 

both of them went on gamer streams, to try to reach the younger voters (mainly guys, but a lot of girls and women are streamers and gamers, too), and then they’re still treated like crap, because progressive liberals are somehow seen as worse than Republicans. 
 

3 hours ago, Makai said:

I don’t disagree with the description only with the idea that it is a larger group. 

I agree this is the real danger. It’s frustrating how many Latinos voted for Trump but they’re not the group that is responsible for Trump winning. That falls solidly on older white men and women. Kamala won with people under 45 and every ethnicity other than white. Data is showing the Millennials are bucking the trend of getting more conservative with age. 

The focus needs to be on reaching younger voters, particularly men. There’s a reason Republicans want to raise the voting age and give more voting power to parents. By 2028, the teenagers who lost the right to an abortion in high school will be of voting age.  

I saw the map showing her win, if only women voted.  She was over 400  electoral votes.  That’s why they want to repeal our right to vote.  

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

They weren't doing much for Gaza. Other than issuing stern warning and redlines which all got crossed.

Much of Gaza has been leveled, it's infrastructure in shambles, almost all of it's hospitals and schools are destroyed, and the north is being ethnically cleansed so it can be annexed soon. Not sure how much worse things can get by the time Trump assumes office, esp since Israel is still bombing the crap out of it.

I know and understand this, but it’s killing me seeing videos of people asking, “will you pay attention to Gaza now?” Because I don’t think they will.  People are terrified, and they will be more concerned about themselves,  and those they love. There will be even less attention available for the people in need of help.  

13 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

It's been that way since Bill Clinton. It's dismissive and insulting.

I don’t understand why it’s an insult? We talk about political parties.  Why is it an insult? 

Edited Sunday at 11:25 PM by Anela

[ABay]

I feel sick and I don't want to live in this country anymore. Has anyone here retired from the US to another country? Feel free to message me.

[Makai]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

Can I ask why some people still say "Democrat party"?  I think I know, but I've seen it on here.  This isn't against any posters, but in general it has become a thing.  I am guessing it is a form of disrespect?  when I respond on any platform that says that, I say "Republic party", because yes, I am petty that way.

It’s because they are implying that Democrats aren’t democratic. I’m assuming it is based in the same rhetoric that denies the party switch. 

Basically the same reason “anti-choice” and “forced birther” are being used by people who don’t like the implication that people who are against abortion are the ones who are pro-life. 

Edited Sunday at 11:46 PM by Makai

[peacheslatour]

[Anela]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

lol, I’m a gamer.  
there are a lot of women who make a good living as a steamer of games.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrae is one of the most successful, and she was a part of a stream with Bernie, a few weeks ago,  

[Makai]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

 

This actually wasn’t the gif is was looking for, but it was there, and I couldn’t resist. 

Edited Monday at 03:26 AM by Makai

[Anela]

So, they shouldn’t have tried to reach them? Other streamers did. 

Edited Sunday at 11:49 PM by Anela

[Ohiopirate02]

35 minutes ago, Makai said:

It’s because they are implying that Democrats aren’t democratic. I’m assuming it is based in the same rhetoric that denies the party switch. 

Basically the same reason “anti-choice” and “forced birther” are being used by people who don’t like the implication that people who are against abortion are the ones who are pro-life. 

I will not use the term "pro-life" because it's a misnomer. It's only used for one aspect that truly being pro-life would encompass. Being pro-life means you support access to affordable healthcare for all, free breakfast and lunch for all kids in school, a living wage, safe affordable housing, clean water, abolishing the death penalty, etc. One cannot call themselves pro-life and vote against expanding Medicaid or allow an innocent man to be executed for a crime he did not commit.

[bluegirl147]

34 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I will not use the term "pro-life" because it's a misnomer. It's only used for one aspect that truly being pro-life would encompass. Being pro-life means you support access to affordable healthcare for all, free breakfast and lunch for all kids in school, a living wage, safe affordable housing, clean water, abolishing the death penalty, etc. One cannot call themselves pro-life and vote against expanding Medicaid or allow an innocent man to be executed for a crime he did not commit.

The fact pregnant women are dying because they can't access the medical care they need because doctors are afraid of losing their license or going to jail should nullify any anti choice person being called pro life.

[PRgal]

You know, regarding ending pregnancy due to genetic conditions:  sometimes, I wonder if I’d exist if prenatal testing, especially non-invasive testing existed in 1979.  As many of you know, I have a genetic condition called neurofibromatosis.  This condition causes tumours to grow all over my body, tumours that generally aren’t malignant but can become cancerous.  I came close this year and had surgery to remove it (after five weeks of preventative radiation therapy).  I wonder if they knew, whether I’d exist today.  At the same time, I do respect one’s right to choose.  If they decided that they might not be able to handle me, then that would have been their choice (people with my condition generally have a normal life but there are also those who may have more special needs.  Many have epilepsy (check), have ADHD and other neurodivergent conditions.  Some have physical disabilities.  We’re also at a higher risk of many cancers).  I would like to think that the only reason they would end would be because I wasn’t viable and/or that my mom’s life was at risk.  Anyway…..

 

note:  I’m very much pro-choice!!!

[Absolom]

On 11/8/2024 at 5:47 PM, Dimity said:

This.  And that Trump benefited from grocery prices and housing prices being so high.  Voters disregarded that this is a worldwide phenomenon because they want to believe there's an easy fix that the current govt somehow missed.

I watch quite a bit of news from the UK and the phrase cost of living crisis has been a daily refrain for it feels like at least two years.

[tearknee]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

You know, regarding ending pregnancy due to genetic conditions:  sometimes, I wonder if I’d exist if prenatal testing, especially non-invasive testing existed in 1979.  As many of you know, I have a genetic condition called neurofibromatosis.  This condition causes tumours to grow all over my body, tumours that generally aren’t malignant but can become cancerous.  I came close this year and had surgery to remove it (after five weeks of preventative radiation therapy).  I wonder if they knew, whether I’d exist today.  At the same time, I do respect one’s right to choose.  If they decided that they might not be able to handle me, then that would have been their choice (people with my condition generally have a normal life but there are also those who may have more special needs.  Many have epilepsy (check), have ADHD and other neurodivergent conditions.  Some have physical disabilities.  We’re also at a higher risk of many cancers).  I would like to think that the only reason they would end would be because I wasn’t viable and/or that my mom’s life was at risk.  Anyway…..

 

note:  I’m very much pro-choice!!!

"My body, my choice" is becoming a tool of eugenics in the pre-natal testing era.

Rod Serling's closing narration to "Death's-Head Revisited" is relevant.

[Is Everyone Gone]

JD Vance's family history is complicated.

His family wasn't poor, in the socioeconomic sense. He wasn't like Clinton, Obama, Lincoln, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, who actually grew up poor as in their families had no money.

His family was very dysfunctional, with a lot of instability. Substance abuse, mom was in and out of his life, etc.

With that being said, my empathy for him is very little because his shitty childhood didn't seem to give him any sympathy for other people going through shitty situations.

[Dimity]

59 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I watch quite a bit of news from the UK and the phrase cost of living crisis has been a daily refrain for it feels like at least two years.

Same in Canada.  Of course here the Conservatives will solve this with a wave of their magic wand when they win the next election.  

[tearknee]

I think it always boils down to "why should I be the only one to suffer?"

[buttersister]

Quote

P2025 has been thrown around so much, I don't think anyone really knows what it is or what it entails.

Anyone who read it does.

But many voters were dupes of disinformation, propaganda, outright lies, bullshit, and lack of cognitive ability. I’ve seen racism and misogyny. That’s how we got here. The wake up call is going to be ugly. But everyone is going to hear it.

Think global. Act local.

 

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Trump is a snake oil salesman and his base buys what he selling every day.  They think his bankruptcies are good business.  This is a man who has been enabled his entire life.  Everything he has accomplished is because other people facilitated it.  This is not a man who through his own blood sweat and tears reached the heights he has reached. I don't who said it but Trump is the guy born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

I know, and they think he's the master deal maker that worked his bankruptcies into millions so he's someone to admire and emulate. Way back in the day my husband read his book "The Art of the Deal" and saw Trump this way. But at least he didn't close his eyes to the reality, and when he got the bigger picture about him his mind changed.

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

Especially because, if your primary concern is the economy, you'd see every mainstream economist say Trump's proposals will make the economy worse, not better, and vote for Harris.

Surveys consistently reveal that when shown two candidates' economic policy proposals without being told which candidate they belong to, the majority of voters prefer the Democratic candidate's proposals. 

They didn't vote for economic policy, they voted for Trump. 

Exactly. Many people will vote for him just because he's him, not because they really understand what he stands for or what some of the things he's promising will mean for the economy and the country in general. I just read today that now he's promising to stop taxing Social Security. Every single investment house, magazine and writer says that would bankrupt Social Security in half the time it's on track to anyway. I have to wonder just how many of these people voted for him and do they even see how ridiculous that is?

I couldn't believe it when my Trump supporting friend called me today gleefully announcing that Trump is going to get the tax on SS removed. She should know better than that but people just lose their minds over this guy. Kamala didn't stand a chance next to Trump. I took it personally, like it was my life in a nutshell, getting drowned out and my message ignored because some man is talking over me and getting all the attention and praise. I could say all the right things and I won't be heard but some pushy, obnoxious guy comes along and says ridiculous crap but gets all the attention and reward. Really, it was like watching my own life.

[Yeah No]

I got a call from my best friend of 50 years tonight (a different friend than the one I mentioned in my previous post). Like me, she lives in a very blue state. I have listened to her hatred and bashing of Trump for 4 years now. She originally voted for him in 2016 but then saw the light about him in 2020 around the start of the pandemic. I was happy about that because I don't like it when we disagree on important things because then we don't feel comfortable talking about them. Well, tonight she admitted to me that she voted for Trump in this election. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. She said she voted for him because she "didn't think Kamala Harris is ready for the presidency". WHAT? I refused to get into it with her, but WTF??? She then spent much of the rest of the conversation praising Harris in ways that astonished me because if she really felt that way then WHY wouldn't she vote for her and instead think Trump was a better choice? Is everybody going nuts now? Even my BEST FRIEND??? And she was STILL bashing Trump, too! Honestly I don't know what's going on with her. Maybe she didn't want to reveal the REAL reason she voted for him? I have no clue. And I refused to touch it with a ten foot pole. All I know is I give up anymore. I just give up, really I do. There's no understanding this, it's just crazy. And it pains me to say that about someone as close to me as that. 🙁

[Yeah No]

Just another thought before I go to bed - I was thinking about my deceased mother this morning as I woke up and I imagined her in my head as if she were talking to me. I know how she would have felt about this particular election. She always disliked Trump, but died in 2001 way before he ever had designs on the presidency. But because he was so prominent in NYC news and culture she had his number years ago like a lot of New Yorkers. 

The feeling I felt as I contemplated my mother was one of insult. For her it would have been the ultimate insult for a woman with as much going for her as Kamala to lose to "that bastard" (as I know she would have called Trump). It would have felt to her like a slap in the face to all women by the American public. A setback; a putting of us back in our place, yet again. And contemplating that made me realize that I'm feeling that exact way about it myself. Losing an election is one thing, but to lose to "that bastard" is on another level. How worthless can one thing make you feel? Just when you thought women were making progress and "whammo" you get shocked back into reality when such a decent woman can lose to the morally decrepit likes of him. If a woman like that can't win when up against a man like him what does that say about America right now? Not anything good, unfortunately. 😢

[LexieLily]

Trump is seventy-eight years old, clearly not well physically, the most exercise he ever does is play golf and he lives on a diet of Diet Coke and hamburgers. There's a nonzero chance that he won't make it through the first year of his new term, never mind the entire four. What will MAGA do when Trump isn't around? How long will it take for the cult to die off?

The nicest thing you can say about Vance is that he's weird (TM Walz), and when DeSantis tried to "run" against Trump in the primary he was squashed very conclusively very fast. I don't see any other Republican picking up the mantle of Cult Leader, do you?

Edited Monday at 07:39 AM by LexieLily

[Soapy Goddess]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Trump is seventy-eight years old, clearly not well physically, the most exercise he ever does is play golf and he lives on a diet of Diet Coke and hamburgers. There's a nonzero chance that he won't make it through the first year of his new term, never mind the entire four. What will MAGA do when Trump isn't around?

For a person who is "not well physically", he certainly had enough strength and fortitude to immediately spring right back up after his first assassination attempt.

And if he doesn't make it through his first term, I think everyone knows the procedure.

[oliviabenson]

I'm still in shock that most states voted red. NY was close to flipping red too. What is going on?

I too think Trump will die of natural causes before he finishes. He's evil and going senile and obese. The happiest one will be milania when he croaks. She will be free.

Sadly Trump has 3 sons that will probably go into politics.

Melania in the future...

Edited Monday at 08:27 AM by oliviabenson

[Palimelon]

Quote

I believe in, but as someone said up thread, there are people who would benefit from this that are against it because they want others to suffer

There is also something else I have noticed, things like free healthcare, education, etc are seen as being getting something for free, ie, it's socialist and communist. Basically, things like free healthcare and education don't generate profits for corporations, so they need to spread the message that stuff like that is bad. Many people feel in the UK that the NHS there is being gutted so that the UK will end up having a health care system like the US, where some good money can be made for some...

Quote

what's with the "Friends of Palestine" in the West's seeming wish for yet another corrupt, authoritarian Arab-Islamic failed state? 

Is this another argument to keep supporting the occupation?

Edited Monday at 08:25 AM by Palimelon

[Palimelon]

Quote

For her it would have been the ultimate insult for a woman with as much going for her as Kamala to lose to "that bastard" (as I know she would have called Trump). It would have felt to her like a slap in the face to all women by the American public.

Yeah, I think many would be ok for Harris to have lost to man who was qualified and not such a horrible person. But to lose to that man...

[EtheltoTillie]

13 hours ago, Enigma X said:

My friend sent me this. Not having FB, she also sent me her account info to view it. 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=449472861532821&id=17841401248543333

Who is that guy speaking?  

[Palimelon]

Looks like someone on Tiktok whose video is going viral?

This seems to be the only video he has posted.

https://www.tiktok.com/@sweeper698

[Sue in her 60s]

On 11/6/2024 at 2:59 AM, Soapy Goddess said:

You can't base politics on sexual proclivities. If that was the case, a number of presidents wouldn't have set foot in the white house, starting with Bill Clinton.

and who paid a political price for Bill's pecadilloes? Hillary in 2016.

[bluegirl147]

34 minutes ago, Sue in her 60s said:

and who paid a political price for Bill's pecadilloes? Hillary in 2016.

Women have been getting blamed for men's bad behavior forever. The party of "family values" criticized a woman for staying in her marriage and working through things.  Meanwhile they embraced a man who has been married three times, cheated on all three wives and continues to this day to denigrate women.

4 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Yeah, I think many would be ok for Harris to have lost to man who was qualified and not such a horrible person. But to lose to that man...

If she had lost on policy differences it would be easier to take.  Some people will say she did lose on policy differences but Trump's policies are either "concepts of plan" or outright fantasy (drilling our way to economic prosperity or implementing tariffs with no negative repercussions). 

5 hours ago, Palimelon said:

There is also something else I have noticed, things like free healthcare, education, etc are seen as being getting something for free, ie, it's socialist and communist. Basically, things like free healthcare and education don't generate profits for corporations, so they need to spread the message that stuff like that is bad

That is why they always keep pushing privatizing things.  They always say it will be fiscally beneficial. Beneficial to who?  They privatized prisons and now there is incentive to arrest and imprison more people. They want to privatize the Post Office and we know what that will mean. Higher costs and less services. They want to privatize the VA.  That would be a nightmare.  They privatized a lot of the Iraq War.  Privatize is just code for giving the money to some corporate entity while employees and people who need the service suffer.

10 hours ago, tearknee said:

I think it always boils down to "why should I be the only one to suffer?"

You aren't wrong.  Some people don't want others to benefit from things they were never given. The lack of empathy and compassion continues to astound me.

8 hours ago, buttersister said:

But many voters were dupes of disinformation, propaganda, outright lies, bullshit, and lack of cognitive ability. I’ve seen racism and misogyny. That’s how we got here.

And how do you counteract that. We have one party telling lies that make people feel good and the other party telling the truth and offering hope and guess which side wins.

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Many people will vote for him just because he's him, not because they really understand what he stands for or what some of the things he's promising will mean for the economy and the country in general.

I remember when Cult of Personality was just a song.

 

[tearknee]

Most people think by emotion.

Make people feel good, they'll consider you their best friend.

But associate with those who make ordinary [mainly but not universally white as the election has just shown] people feel bad by calling their ancestors - their families! - invaders and settlers? And demanding fistfuls of cash [whilst calling it 'reparations': a word which average [white] people don't use and that they don't understand -- thus it is already frightening from the get-go] comprising sums of money that most of those people have no hope of seeing?

8 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

 

You aren't wrong.  Some people don't want others to benefit from things they were never given. The lack of empathy and compassion continues to astound me.

And how do you counteract that. We have one party telling lies that make people feel good and the other party telling the truth and offering hope and guess which side wins.

I remember when Cult of Personality was just a song.

 

[Bookish Jen]

No, Evie Magazine. I will not hold hands with you and sing "Kumbaya."

Interspersed with articles about the virtues of sundresses, how to please your husband, and praise for Ballerina Farm, Evie features articles oozing with racism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, classism, and misogyny, not to mention misinformation about immigrants, mental health, vaccines, and birth control. These are not good people.

[Dimity]

At the end of the day too many people didn't care that they were voting for a man who tried to overthrow an election. This is what I will never, ever understand.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

No, Evie Magazine. I will not hold hands with you and sing "Kumbaya."

Interspersed with articles about the virtues of sundresses, how to please your husband, and praise for Ballerina Farm, Evie features articles oozing with racism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, classism, and misogyny, not to mention misinformation about immigrants, mental health, vaccines, and birth control. These are not good people.

I doubt they would be saying that if Harris had won.  

[Anela]

8 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

No, Evie Magazine. I will not hold hands with you and sing "Kumbaya."

Interspersed with articles about the virtues of sundresses, how to please your husband, and praise for Ballerina Farm, Evie features articles oozing with racism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, classism, and misogyny, not to mention misinformation about immigrants, mental health, vaccines, and birth control. These are not good people.

I remember when Emily in your phone, shared a post by them on instagram. As an example of what was being pushed to women (especially younger women). It was an article about having sex, even when you don’t want to, because your husband needs that. 🙄 luckily, a lot of women were pushing back in the comments. 

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I got a call from my best friend of 50 years tonight (a different friend than the one I mentioned in my previous post). Like me, she lives in a very blue state. I have listened to her hatred and bashing of Trump for 4 years now. She originally voted for him in 2016 but then saw the light about him in 2020 around the start of the pandemic. I was happy about that because I don't like it when we disagree on important things because then we don't feel comfortable talking about them. Well, tonight she admitted to me that she voted for Trump in this election. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. She said she voted for him because she "didn't think Kamala Harris is ready for the presidency". WHAT? I refused to get into it with her, but WTF??? She then spent much of the rest of the conversation praising Harris in ways that astonished me because if she really felt that way then WHY wouldn't she vote for her and instead think Trump was a better choice? Is everybody going nuts now? Even my BEST FRIEND??? And she was STILL bashing Trump, too! Honestly I don't know what's going on with her. Maybe she didn't want to reveal the REAL reason she voted for him? I have no clue. And I refused to touch it with a ten foot pole. All I know is I give up anymore. I just give up, really I do. There's no understanding this, it's just crazy. And it pains me to say that about someone as close to me as that. 🙁

“Not ready for the presidency” MY ASS. And Trump is?! He wasn’t ready the first time around and we all payed for it!

Anyway, you’ve summed up my feelings on my protest-voting friend. I know how hard it is to let go of a friendship, especially when you realize that you don’t share the same values that you thought you did. Some people you just can’t reach. 

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Looks like someone on Tiktok whose video is going viral?

This seems to be the only video he has posted.

https://www.tiktok.com/@sweeper698

Perfectly summing up why most of us are so disgusted that so many people don’t care about valuing good anymore, letting alone sticking together. 

[bluegirl147]

18 minutes ago, Anela said:

As an example of what was being pushed to women (especially younger women). It was an article about having sex, even when you don’t want to, because your husband needs that. 🙄 luckily, a lot of women were pushing back in the comments. 

That whole Trad Wife thing concerns me.  Even before it became a thing I would see a lot of women in their 20s saying they didn't have to work because their man did.  That seemed to be their goal.  Have a man take care of them. 

6 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Perfectly summing up why most of us are so disgusted that so many people don’t care about valuing good anymore, letting alone sticking together. 

I've heard a lot of people say it's that American indvidualism thing.  Code for I'm going to do what is best for me and fuck everyone else. 

[atomic]

27 minutes ago, Dimity said:

At the end of the day too many people didn't care that they were voting for a man who tried to overthrow an election. This is what I will never, ever understand.

It boils down to that for me too.

As a woman of color, especially one living in the south, it does not really surprise me that being a racist was not a dealbreaker to people in this majority white country. It does not really surprise me that being a misogynist was not a dealbreaker to people in this society where the patriarchy is still alive and well.

What is unfathomable to me is that people did not draw the line at an attempted coup. At a weeks long effort to illegally discard the results of an election and install an unelected president. At the behind-the-scenes schemes that sought to use violence as a means to stop certification so that fake electors could be chosen instead. That the democratic principles that this country was built upon were under the worst attack since the Civil War.

How that was not disqualifying to so many Americans is something I'll never wrap my head around either.

[tearknee]

Collectivism is a thing of the past and not just in the USA. E.g. the abolition of the closed shop in the UK and the end of the unionized "a job for life" culture was a symptom not a cause.