S19.E02: Let there be Light

[Roslyn]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

I'd like to understand why, when Christine gave up her share of Coyote Pass, in exchange for her old Flagstaff house, why her lot went to just Kody and Robyn, rather than to all four remaining parents.

Speed? She could quickly quit claim her interest in the property in one step. Signing it over to Janelle or Meri or both would have taken longer. She wanted out quickly and it's easier to get it done that way before Kody had too long to think it over and try to come up with a way to screw her over. I also suspect she may have thought that Kody would be fair with the division, but in the end it wasn't her circus anymore.

[jschoolgirl]

N/M

Edited September 24 by jschoolgirl

[jschoolgirl]

1 hour ago, VioletWitch said:

I would not be surprised if this becomes a fight between Kody and Robyn down the road. 

Storyline material!

[ginger90]

3 hours ago, General Days said:

I'd like to understand why, when Christine gave up her share of Coyote Pass, in exchange for her old Flagstaff house, why her lot went to just Kody and Robyn, rather than to all four remaining parents.

I know I didn’t dream this. I recall Christine saying she “signed it over to the family “. So either she was told that was what it was, or she made it up.

3 hours ago, General Days said:

Edited September 24 by ginger90

[GeorgiaRai]

4 hours ago, General Days said:

I'd like to understand why, when Christine gave up her share of Coyote Pass, in exchange for her old Flagstaff house, why her lot went to just Kody and Robyn, rather than to all four remaining parents.

"Her" lot was always owned by her, Kody & Robyn.  As part of her agreement/ swap with Kody, she just removed herself from title, leaving it in their names.  

It might have been possible for her to deed her (presumably) one-third interest to Janelle and/or Meri, but I don't think that would've made sense since (1) the "swap" benefited her more, and (2) it could lead to a costly partition proceeding* over a partial interest that probably has very little monetary value. (Not sure how AZ law treats this kind of thing.)

Plus, at the time, the plan was still to combine and then re-assign / redistribute the lots, wasn't it?  The other wives weren't, at that point, thinking about assets and estates and getting screwed over by the asshat.

[General Days]

What I don't understand is...

The family bought the four lots from the seller. The seller financed the sale. I don't get why all five Brown parents' names did not go on each of the four lots (as the land was apportioned at the time of sale).

 

12 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

Plus, at the time, the plan was still to combine and then re-assign / redistribute the lots, wasn't it?  The other wives weren't, at that point, thinking about assets and estates and getting screwed over by the asshat.

Yes, exactly. That was the plan, so why put certain people on certain lots, when you're going to scrap the boundaries eventually?

Who owns X percentage of the four (original) lots makes me think everyone was thinking about assets and not getting screwed over by then.

The women maybe didn't do enough to prevent a screwing, but I suspect that's why Christine bought a house, instead of just renting/saving to build out where she could hear the angels singkingk. 

Since Meri seems to own a smaller portion of the Coyote Pass land, I suspect she was wary of getting screwed. It wasn't long before that purchase that she asked the family for a loan to put down money on her B&B and they screwed her over — even though, apparently, Kody takes money out of the family account (and that must have been with at least Janelle's knowledge) for "business deals" that suddenly go awry, right when someone other than Kody/Robyn wants access to the money. 

And (still on Meri's small portion of Coyote Pass), in this episode, Janelle said the family hadn't been fair to Meri in a long time, and that's something she wants to correct as the family breaks apart financially. 

 

[laurakaye]

19 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Yes, and not to mention, all the money they were raking in with the show.  They had to keep up the polygamy story so the series would continue.

Meri came right out and said in the first episode of this season that Kody sold the viewers a bill of goods regarding their happy plyg family.  Ironically, I think this show is now drawing in more viewers than ever.  It makes me happy and somewhat embarrassed to have been on this runaway train of a show since Day One - just like Robyn!!  But the viewers have spoken - seems the interest in the charade ending is more interesting than whatever came before.

 

14 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

It might have been possible for her to deed her (presumably) one-third interest to Janelle and/or Meri, but I don't think that would've made sense since (1) the "swap" benefited her more, and (2) it could lead to a costly partition proceeding* over a partial interest that probably has very little monetary value. (Not sure how AZ law treats this kind of thing.)

I find it so interesting that we are trying to parse out the cluster that is Coyote Pass, when all it currently houses are a few tumbleweeds and some plague-ridden prairie dogs.  Oh, and Robyn's red bench for sittin'. 

I suspect that Kody speechified, pontificated and presented so many hand-drawn easel presentations to his wives that they signed whatever he put in front of them to shut him up.  And I'm sure it was all cloaked in being what was "best for the family."  Which turned out to be true - it's just that the OG 3 didn't know they were actually not part of Kody and Robyn's mythical family.

 

Edited September 25 by laurakaye

[ginger90]

3 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Meri came right out and said in the first episode of this season that Kody sold the viewers a bill of goods regarding their happy plyg family. 

It’s ironic for her to say this. When it came to her relationship with Kody she would shoot down any comments on her social media. Back in the day it was on Twitter, and Instagram. She played the game too, including on the show.

[Granny58]

On 9/24/2024 at 1:35 AM, Yeah No said:

He's probably angry with them because they're angry with HIM for being a very bad and very public example of their religion. He was supposed to go on TV to make polygamy look great and ended up doing just the opposite. So they must be down on him for making them look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked his ass out and his bitter attitude and rejection of his faith is now just sour grapes.

Ohhhh....that's an interesting angle.    I'll betcha!

[SemiCharmedLife]

23 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

 

I wonder if he has left all faith entirely or is going back to the more mainstream LDS beliefs of his youth. Robyn has always seemed like she believes fundamentalism is the superior way to me that I wonder how she is feeling in all of this, or if she is following his lead. I mean, Kody is now acting like all the vows he made in that church are worthless, which would include his sealing with Robyn. If you subscribe to FLDS/LDS beliefs, this fundamentally changes what happens in the afterlife if you are a believer. I would not be surprised if this becomes a fight between Kody and Robyn down the road. 

I would agree with you if I was buying what Robyn was selling.  She is trying to manipulate the audience by saying she loves the polygamy lifestyle while actively living monogamously for most of the time.  She drove a wedge between Kody and the other wives, as well as his non-Robyn children.  She does her best in her interviews to paint a picture of a heartbroken sister wife, but that is to temper her image.  She doesn't want to be known as the cause of the family breakup.  It all started with her, her greed and Kody's blatant favoritism.

[Roslyn]

7 hours ago, General Days said:

What I don't understand is...

The family bought the four lots from the seller. The seller financed the sale. I don't get why all five Brown parents' names did not go on each of the four lots (as the land was apportioned at the time of sale).

 

Yes, exactly. That was the plan, so why put certain people on certain lots, when you're going to scrap the boundaries eventually?

Who owns X percentage of the four (original) lots makes me think everyone was thinking about assets and not getting screwed over by then.

The women maybe didn't do enough to prevent a screwing, but I suspect that's why Christine bought a house, instead of just renting/saving to build out where she could hear the angels singkingk. 

Since Meri seems to own a smaller portion of the Coyote Pass land, I suspect she was wary of getting screwed. It wasn't long before that purchase that she asked the family for a loan to put down money on her B&B and they screwed her over — even though, apparently, Kody takes money out of the family account (and that must have been with at least Janelle's knowledge) for "business deals" that suddenly go awry, right when someone other than Kody/Robyn wants access to the money. 

And (still on Meri's small portion of Coyote Pass), in this episode, Janelle said the family hadn't been fair to Meri in a long time, and that's something she wants to correct as the family breaks apart financially. 

 

The way the properties were set up has been head scratching from the beginning. After they purchased it people were looking at the real life county website and talking about the multi names on each parcel. But then when filming caught up to the land purchase what they said on the show was very different than reality. For a long time they acted on the show like it was one big rectangle of 14 acres and they would divide it into 4 lots and build their Arizona cul de sac version 2.0. How many hours of filming was dedicated to Kody pontificating about lot division, how many walks of the land was filmed with all of them arguing who goes where when the reality was more convoluted.

I think by the time Christine said on the show that she swapped her interest in the one parcel with her house equity she honestly thought the rest of them would still move forward with dividing everything up into even parcels. Three for wives and one for Kody's get away fun house. By the sound of it Kody needs a two acre pole barn for storage.

Somewhere along the way Kody started considering the "family" account his personal account. Janelle made it clear that family money paid the down payment on Christine's Flagstaff house and yet Kody stated that "he and Robyn" gave Christine the down payment money.

[Denize]

On 9/24/2024 at 11:14 AM, General Days said:

Principle Voices' goal was to destigmatize polygamous Mormons, and decriminalize and/or legalize polygamy. Christine's work brought them to the attention of Puddle Monkey Productions (Christopher Poole and Tim Gibbons) which created/produces the TV series.

The financial abuses highlighted in this episode make it clear how unfair polygamy is, and if you want to live it, should document how money will be handled up front, including the value of the stay-at-home wives, who should be paid like the nanny!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Somewhere along the way Kody started considering the "family" account his personal account. Janelle made it clear that family money paid the down payment on Christine's Flagstaff house and yet Kody stated that "he and Robyn" gave Christine the down payment money.

I am in no way defending Kody, whom I think is a sorry excuse for a man, husband and father. But if you buy his belief that he is the "head of the family" then it stands to reason that he would "manage" the "family account." I'm sure he never thought twice about it.

[BAForever]

Just watched- weekend treat! Kody is just so obsessed that everyone is talking/gossiping about him. And yeah, I think Christine loves the dirt. I also think that Janelle, Meri and the vast majority, if not all of the non-Robyn kids barely give him a thought. And that bothers his massive ego.

[Shelbie]

Maybe Kody’s hair is getting weirder because he keeps yanking on it in a desperate attempt to try to understand how his family is coping and thriving without his guidance. 😃

[surfgirl]

On 9/25/2024 at 3:27 PM, Elizzikra said:

I am in no way defending Kody, whom I think is a sorry excuse for a man, husband and father. But if you buy his belief that he is the "head of the family" then it stands to reason that he would "manage" the "family account." I'm sure he never thought twice about it.

That is a very patriarchal way to view this, which of course jives with Kody's newer view on plural marriage. Plenty of women take care of managing the family finances in today's world. And even in this family, we've been told since the first season, that Janelle managed the family finances because she was so much better at that. This new patriarchal bullshit Kotex has been spewing has only been int he past few years and I believe is a direct manifestation of Sobbyn whispering into his ear that she is his subservient wive and HE should be managing the finances. I'm sure she was right there spending every last dime she could if Kotex did in fact take over the finances, which would explain SADKRAB. I dont see an M, J, or C in there do you?

[Orcinus orca]

2 hours ago, surfgirl said:

This new patriarchal bullshit Kotex has been spewing has only been int he past few years and I believe is a direct manifestation of Sobbyn whispering into his ear that she is his subservient wive and HE should be managing the finances.

I believe it is more related to his immersion in the (toxic) manosphere. His gun totin' pals undoubtedly embrace the "barefoot and pregnant" vision of women.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

I believe it is more related to his immersion in the (toxic) manosphere. His gun totin' pals undoubtedly embrace the "barefoot and pregnant" vision of women.

Yeah I think that's where he got it too. If Sobbyn has anything to do with it it's because his toxic manosphere friends have been feeding him the crap that she's the only wife that has fully accepted his patriarchal authority and that's why he's so partial to her over the others. It also feeds into his toxic narcissism.

[LilyD]

19 hours ago, surfgirl said:

This new patriarchal bullshit Kotex has been spewing has only been int he past few years and I believe is a direct manifestation of Sobbyn whispering into his ear that she is his subservient wive and HE should be managing the finances. I'm

Iirc Janelle was the only one of the OG3 who would occasionally dared to voice some criticism/worry about the financial consequences of having Robyn in the family. Robyn obviously knew Janelle was watching her, so it probably made sense to wrangle that responsibility away from her and give it to Kody?

(Just a thought of course, but she seems cunning enough for this)

[the-grey-lady]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:21 PM, Dobian said:

Can these people never buy an already-built house in an already-built neighborhood?!

"Look at all this laaaaand!!  The mountains, the sky, the big dirt road, and laaaaand as far as the eye can see!!!  Why, in five years we'll have all the permits, and in five more we'll get hooked up to the power line on the highway down yonder.  Yippeee!!!!"

You forgot the treeeesssss!

[Orcinus orca]

6 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

You forgot the treeeesssss!

And the angels singingk.  Apparently they don't do that in a ready-built home.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 9/25/2024 at 7:12 AM, General Days said:

What I don't understand is...

The family bought the four lots from the seller. The seller financed the sale. I don't get why all five Brown parents' names did not go on each of the four lots (as the land was apportioned at the time of sale).

 

Yes, exactly. That was the plan, so why put certain people on certain lots, when you're going to scrap the boundaries eventually?

Who owns X percentage of the four (original) lots makes me think everyone was thinking about assets and not getting screwed over by then.

The women maybe didn't do enough to prevent a screwing, but I suspect that's why Christine bought a house, instead of just renting/saving to build out where she could hear the angels singkingk. 

Since Meri seems to own a smaller portion of the Coyote Pass land, I suspect she was wary of getting screwed. It wasn't long before that purchase that she asked the family for a loan to put down money on her B&B and they screwed her over — even though, apparently, Kody takes money out of the family account (and that must have been with at least Janelle's knowledge) for "business deals" that suddenly go awry, right when someone other than Kody/Robyn wants access to the money. 

And (still on Meri's small portion of Coyote Pass), in this episode, Janelle said the family hadn't been fair to Meri in a long time, and that's something she wants to correct as the family breaks apart financially. 

 

I really feel this is why Christine said, if you want me to move to Flagstaff I am going to buy a house.  She knew he wasn't going to work or their relationship after moving and wanted to have something in her name.  Same reason Meri just rented, she had no plans to stay long term in FS.  

[LilyD]

On 9/25/2024 at 2:12 PM, General Days said:

 It wasn't long before that purchase that she asked the family for a loan to put down money on her B&B and they screwed her over — even though, apparently, Kody takes money out of the family account (and that must have been with at least Janelle's knowledge) for "business deals" that suddenly go awry, right when someone other than Kody/Robyn wants access to the money. 

In all fairness, I understood why the family said no to Meri at the time. (When the family still acted as a unit) She wanted a large chunk of money for the down payment, yet had nothing in terms of a business plan, family would have no vote nor any insight into the business once it was up and running.

I fully understand it was to be her business, but it is a big ask to ask for that much money for such a weak business venture, with nothing in return. 

[ginger90]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:40 PM, LilyD said:

it is a big ask to ask for that much money for such a weak business venture

I disagree only because she asked for a loan, not business partners. It all worked out, she got the down payment, bought it and no one has any rights to it.

Edited October 7 by ginger90

[Shelbie]

55 minutes ago, LilyD said:

I fully understand it was to be her business, but it is a big ask to ask for that much money for such a weak business venture, with nothing in return. 

Sounds exactly like My Sister Wife’s Closet. 

[65mickey]

Kody saying "I am so angry about the way I have been treated" blows my mind. He also said he refused to take responsibility for something that his other wives were saying about him. So in other words all of this was caused by his 3 former wives and their 13children not Kody. Year sure. 

[Not Buyin It]

On 9/28/2024 at 6:20 PM, Orcinus orca said:

I believe it is more related to his immersion in the (toxic) manosphere. His gun totin' pals undoubtedly embrace the "barefoot and pregnant" vision of women.

Hmmm. Gotta disagree with you on this. I am very much immersed in the "toxic" (really? How droll) lifestyle of Second Amendment support and military service - about as male as you can get. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY embraces that "barefoot and pregnant vision of women". 

Nope. If Kody is having delusions of testosterone-fueled patriarchal grandeur, it's coming from his church. The same church that chases the young males out of the house and goes sniffin' after estrogen at any opportunity. Incest be damned.

[Orcinus orca]

 

54 minutes ago, Not Buyin It said:

Hmmm. Gotta disagree with you on this. I am very much immersed in the "toxic" (really? How droll) lifestyle of Second Amendment support and military service - about as male as you can get. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY embraces that "barefoot and pregnant vision of women". 

Nope. If Kody is having delusions of testosterone-fueled patriarchal grandeur, it's coming from his church. The same church that chases the young males out of the house and goes sniffin' after estrogen at any opportunity. Incest be damned.

Disagree if you must.  The manosphere isn't about guns or military service. Multiple sources refer to the "teachings" of the manosphere as toxic. From Forbes and written by a psychologist. 

The “manosphere” refers to a collection of websites, blogs, online forums and communities focusing on men’s rights, men’s interests and critiques of feminism. The manosphere is controversial and often criticized for promoting misogyny, toxic masculinity and harmful stereotypes about both men and women.

The manosphere largely consists of the following types of groups:

Men’s rights activists. Such groups advocate for what they consider as men’s rights and aim to address perceived discrimination against men in society.

Pick-up artists. This community focuses on teaching men strategies to attract and seduce women, often emphasizing manipulation and psychological tactics to do so.

Red pill men. Deriving its name from “The Matrix,” this community believes in “taking the red pill” or awakening to what adherents view as the true nature of gender dynamics and societal structures, which involves a critical view of feminism and reinforces traditional gender roles.

Incels. Involuntary celibates or “Incels” are a subculture of men who feel they are unable to find romantic or sexual partners despite wanting them. Their group discussions are often rooted in feelings of frustration and resentment towards women.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Not Buyin It said:

Nope. If Kody is having delusions of testosterone-fueled patriarchal grandeur, it's coming from his church. The same church that chases the young males out of the house and goes sniffin' after estrogen at any opportunity. Incest be damned.

Guess where members of the toxic manosphere come from - cultural corners that breed misogyny like his church, that's where.

[surfgirl]

7 hours ago, Not Buyin It said:

Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY embraces that "barefoot and pregnant vision of women". 

While I can absolutely see this toxic vision of women being breeders that are best left barefoot and in the kitchen coming out of Morman polygamy churches like the AUB, I also think it comes from toxic masculinity whivh is indeed found in the gun lovin' community. You personally may not see this mindset within your friend circles, but it is most assuredly there. 

Edited October 10 by surfgirl

[Orcinus orca]

9 hours ago, surfgirl said:

You personally may not see this mindset within your friend circles, but it is most assuredly there. 

And in newspaper articles these days.

[General Days]

On 10/9/2024 at 6:59 PM, Not Buyin It said:

Hmmm. Gotta disagree with you on this. I am very much immersed in the "toxic" (really? How droll) lifestyle of Second Amendment support and military service - about as male as you can get. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY embraces that "barefoot and pregnant vision of women". 

Nope. If Kody is having delusions of testosterone-fueled patriarchal grandeur, it's coming from his church. The same church that chases the young males out of the house and goes sniffin' after estrogen at any opportunity. Incest be damned.

Kody is certainly immersed in gun culture. He sells guns and accessories at gun shows. However that is only one feature of the manosphere, and the manosphere is what Orcinus orca was talking about in the post to which you responded.

Not everyone who holds a particular political point of view on the Second Amendment is part of the manosphere. Btw, Kody has even mentioned the "manosphere" on the show. Anyhow, Orcinus orca's longer post is a good intro to the topic.

[Denize]

On 9/25/2024 at 6:12 AM, General Days said:

The women maybe didn't do enough to prevent a screwing, but I suspect that's why Christine bought a house, instead of just renting/saving to build out where she could hear the angels singkingk. 

Christine had a perfect view of the same mountain with angels singkingk from the backyard of the house she bought, but with less prairie dog poop.