S01.E08: The Acolyte

[chitowngirl]

Confrontation and revelation await.

[NeenerNeener]

I don't like any of these people. If there's a second season of this I won't bother watching.

ETA: Damn it! They teased me with a Yoda sighting!

And in honor of the late Shannen Doherty:

"The power of three will set you free"

Edited July 17 by NeenerNeener

[DoctorAtomic]

I will be much more interested in a second season. It's too bad this season was basically all set up. I think they could have structured it a little tighter around Brendock. It's quite clear how they wanted to end, and I think they stuck the landing, but it's almost like they worked backwards from that. It might have been tighter to start with E1 the same; whoa, someone killed a Jedi?! And then go in chronological order. 

I'm disappointed Sol let Mae escape so easy. Probably could have said "I'm sorry" to Mae rather than "You started the fire". Yes, let's dump the blame entirely on a scared girl.

Has anyone in Star Wars said "hell" before? Do they have that concept? I don't recall Anakin or Ahsoka saying it, and they'd be the likely suspects.

They pulled out all the stops with Smilo v Sol. Say what you want about the show, but there's a lot of us who are always talking about why they don't fight with the Force more. The whole fight was really great; you don't see grabbing each others' hands much either, if at all. I can't recall any of the big duels doing that. Well done. 

Nice switch with Osha being angry and Mae being calm. Not really blaming her though. Sweet trick on the bleeding into the sabre crystal. I mean, I wanted Osha to be the Acolyte, and plenty of us were talking about her going dark side, so all right with me. She gave into the training under duress, but still. Good for Mae copping to starting the fire too. 

Good call on everyone with Vestra (or whatever, Force Whip) being Smilo's master. Obviously. 

Cameo, killer that was!

Overall, I think it was a poor narrative choice to make the Jedi *all* jerks. If they're trying to portray Sol as "good but flawed", or he made an honest mistake, I don't think it worked. If they thought they were getting any sympathy from me, no dice. It's not like Osha choked him out like Vader was choking people out who were just trying to hide from him in Kenobi. He killed her mother and lied to her for years. I'm thinking it's Western justice. 

I don't think they did a good enough job in setting up Sol's motivations well enough either, since the entire season really flowed around his choices, but we didn't get to them until the second to last episode. I don't get why the episodes were so short, when this was easily remedied by some extra minutes. 

The other is that they didn't give us anything from Mae escaping to meeting Smilo. There needed to be a couple of scenes there. 

I've said before that I get why we're in a deconstruction phase of the Jedi, but it's really the Council, as an organization; here, Vestra is that, but they're overlooking the the people. They're missing the point that there were still decent and good Jedi. Fundamentally, yes, Order 66, the Empire, Vader, is the fault of the Jedi, conceptually, but not quite in actuality. 

[absnow54]

15 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Overall, I think it was a poor narrative choice to make the Jedi *all* jerks. If they're trying to portray Sol as "good but flawed", or he made an honest mistake, I don't think it worked. If they thought they were getting any sympathy from me, no dice. It's not like Osha choked him out like Vader was choking people out who were just trying to hide from him in Kenobi. He killed her mother and lied to her for years. I'm thinking it's Western justice. 

I was surprised that Sol went full evil and was going to shoot May’s ship down to cover up his crimes. I thought a level head was going to prevail, and he was going to see he lost his way, but instead the woodchuck had to stop him. I also thought the woodchuck was going to intentionally lead the Jedi the wrong way when they had him tracking May, because he recognized the Jedi were all cray.

I thought they did a good job with the twist that the “villains” were the heroes of this story. I certainly was rooting for them by the end.  

[paigow]

Osha: Why do we always practice naked?

[Aurinos]

34 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Has anyone in Star Wars said "hell" before? Do they have that concept? I don't recall Anakin or Ahsoka saying it, and they'd be the likely suspects.

Good old Han Solo in “The Empire Strikes Back”, when he infamously tells someone “Then I’ll see you in hell!”

[DoctorAtomic]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I was surprised that Sol went full evil and was going to shoot May’s ship down to cover up his crimes.

I forgot to mention that too. I didn't know what he was doing at first until he flipped up the guard on the switch. There, he's made the decision. But, I think my point is still valid in trying to make him sympathetic or 'flawed' was a miss. The show had him beat Smilo when he offed all the Jedi, and he pulled back. You're laying the groundwork there that he was willing to go against 'code' to just kill. Let Sol go all out in the end. Give him a scene where he catches up to Mae and tries to off her, but she gets away. You can still have Mae say he needs to answer to justice. Osha still can choke him out. You end up in the same place. 

His obsession with Osha wasn't quite earned, and I don't get how if "they're the same person" how he justifies trying to shoot Mae out of the sky. Unless he thinks she doesn't matter. Which is fine, but, again, make the show in chronological order about him unraveling. Show us why Osha had to leave training. 

3 minutes ago, Aurinos said:

Good old Han Solo in “The Empire Strikes Back”, when he infamously tells someone “Then I’ll see you in hell!”

Nice catch. That's got to be the only other time. In this episode and in ANH, the Force is mentioned as a 'religion', but I think that's it. 

[paigow]

10 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

In this episode and in ANH, the Force is mentioned as a 'religion', but I think that's it. 

 

[Nacos for Rufus]

25 minutes ago, paigow said:

Osha: Why do we always practice naked?

“To unleash the full power of the force, you have to let the force hang out.”

[DoctorAtomic]

That's what I was thinking of. Clearly, the use of religion was deliberate. Again, some more run time, we could have seen a little more about this 'review' and the motivations of the senator. 

Funny part there is the guy saying 'how is everything going to run without the bureaucracy?' Totalitarian states need the civil service too. I mean, you got to send the mail out. People need their prescriptions. 

Ancient religion. Barely 30 years. And Tarkin totally shuts Vader down!

Given the wealth of content, why hasn't think guy gotten a show?

[Nacos for Rufus]

Having made it through the series, Vernestra just might be the most interesting character. She’s cunning and political, and I really want the backstory of how her apprentice turned. She’s quite content to use Mae as well. She turned out to be a lot more interesting than I had expected.

[paigow]

Mae has become Jason Bourne / Winter Soldier. The memory wipe does not affect her fighting skills.

[paigow]

Sol ends up as Jedi Harvey Oswald

[Sarah 103]

I'm glad I finished the season. This series was a decent idea with a poor execution. It needed to be structured more like Andor. You can keep the first episode or two as the start of the series to hook the audience, but then it needed to drastically change from there. Show us all of Brendock in one episode (revisiting it three times got a little frustrating). Give us an episode or two focused on Osha's time as a Jedi. Give us an episode or two of Mae's life after Brendock. After that comes Mae hunting down the rest of the Jedi involved in what happened on Brendock, and Osha coming back into Sol's life. The season finale stays as it is. 

Seeing the light saber turn from blue to red was awesome. The light saber duels in the episode were fantastic. 

If there is a season 2, I might watch because it has the potential to be far better than what we just finished watching. I love the idea of the Jedi perpetuating a cover-up and trying to maintain it while there's a Senate investigation. The Jedi trying to use Mae to somehow find Osha despite the memory wipe is intriguing. 

[thuganomics85]

Great seeing Dave Harewood as apparently the only Senator in the Republic who thinks maybe letting the Jedi have unchecked power could be problematic and some form of oversight wouldn't hurt.  Such an unreasonable stance!  Funnily though, I've gotten to the point with him where I actually find his normal, British voice odd since I'm so use to the American accent he uses on Supergirl and other American shows he pops up on.

Lee Jung-jae tried his best, but they really did not do a good job at making Sol a "good man, who just made a mistake" that they were aiming for.  Instead, he kind of came off weirdly obsessed with Osha and then just skirted any responsibility when it came to his actions on Brendock.  Writing wise, it never felt like he actually shown any form of regret or remorse for his actions that led to all of this, despite Lee trying to bring, err, some soul/Sol into all of this.  Can't say I'm all that torn up over Osha taking him out.

Osha ending up being the one who seems to be "embracing the Dark Side" is a nice twist, I guess.  Meanwhile, Mae gets her memory wiped and is captured by the Jedi, but it looks like Verneseta; who ends up also being Qimir's mentor; seems to have plans for her.

Say what you will about this series but it might actually have some of the best lightsaber duels out of the franchise.

I'll definitely be back if there is more seasons, but while I still think some of the hate was overblown, it really feels like a poster child of "great concept but lacking in execution" series.  Probably could have used more episodes, but it feels like Disney+ and other streaming services are just hellbent on slashing episodic series to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if seasons are only four episodes long in the future.  But, hey, if gave us Sith Lord Jason Mendoza, so it will always have that going for it!

[Sbeetle]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Osha: Why do we always practice naked?

John Williams adds “Bom chicka wow wow” to the Star Wars theme. 

[Spartan Girl]

Well, that certainly didn’t end the way I expected.

Oh hey, Yoda and Darth Plageuis!

[paigow]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

the only Senator in the Republic who thinks maybe letting the Jedi have unchecked power could be problematic and some form of oversight wouldn't hurt. 

The Senator trying to regulate Tony Stark was a HYDRA stooge...

[Fool to cry]

I liked the finale and the series overall. I liked that the Jedi were flawed, imperfect and they messed up but they did it out of their sense of good.  It's easier to accept bad people with malicious intent doing bad things

I appreciated them showing Sol still believing the only thing he did wrong was not saving both girls.

The thing that destroyed the Jedi wasn't the Dark Side but their belief that as long as they avoided the Dark Side they were in the right.

Great seeing Senator Martian Man Hunter and his calling out the Jedi.

My theory on why Basil sabotaged the ship showed that trust in the Jedi, especially Sol was eroding.

The first choreography was also great.

[DoctorAtomic]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Great seeing Dave Harewood as apparently the only Senator in the Republic who thinks maybe letting the Jedi have unchecked power could be problematic and some form of oversight wouldn't hurt.

Even though he had a good point to make, he still was being assy about it, and it was clear he just doesn't like the Jedi. Again, just make a character reasonable. No need to throw the attitude in. Politicians aren't great, but there's actually some that are trying to work hard. 

I don't have a problem rooting for bad guys in a show but you still need some people trying to do the right things for the right reasons. 

[paigow]

Big liar Yoda is.

• Gone for centuries Sith have been
• Killed by Vader your father was

[DoctorAtomic]

Technically, though, Vader said to Kenobi - "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker. I did" in the miniseries. Vader found out who Fulcrum was in Rebels he said to Palpatine that "the padawan of Anakin Skywalker is alive". Whatever you want to call the guy, he had some serious issues. I think Luke was eventually able to figure out what they were saying conceptually because he says "I am a Jedi like my father before me".

Smilo never said he was Sith either. He said to Sol - "You might call me Sith."

[paigow]

30 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Smilo never said he was Sith either. He said to Sol - "You might call me Sith."

On the other hand, my creepy ass Master is totally Sith... 

[absnow54]

14 hours ago, Nacos for Rufus said:

Having made it through the series, Vernestra just might be the most interesting character. She’s cunning and political, and I really want the backstory of how her apprentice turned. She’s quite content to use Mae as well. She turned out to be a lot more interesting than I had expected.

This is what I was unclear on. Was she covering for Mae in those final scenes, or was the entire series her setting up Sol to fail and botching the internal investigation to sabotage the Jedi order? It felt like a page out of Palpletine’s book where he infiltrated and sabotaged various parts of the republic to gain more power. She seemed pleased when the senate decided they wanted more oversight over the Jedi. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think she took advantage of the situation with Sol already dead to pin it on him to close the case. Very realpolitik of her. I don't see her playing a long game with Sol because she didn't want him to go on the mission (in the present day) in the first place. 

She's got Mae with the mindwipe in her pocket, and she knows Smilo is out there now. She seemed surprised to sense him on Brendock imo. So she can use Mae to get to him. If she's the reason why he turned to the dark side, then that's probably a loose end she wants to snip. 

Certainly calculating, but I just got that she was smart enough to take advantage of the situation.

I don't think she's pleased about the Jedi Audit though. She was terse and sharp with Senator Dave Harewood. 

[Grimnar]

I would say that show is average and kind of forgotable. Don't know why but Mando's season 3, Ahsoka and now Acolyte looked like more interest in setting up another season or movie than trying to tell story in the current season. At least they feel like that to me.

Biggest selling points for Acolyte were new era and that we will get POV from Sith/dark side user. But I feel like we barely touch High Republic era so it wasn't much different from prequel era and most of the time we spent time with Jedi and we didn't get much POV from Sith except part of episode 6.

Unfortunately pacing and writting were biggest weak points of the show and some situation happened just because plot demand it(how Qimir is able to reach OSha and Mae, erase Mae's memories and Jedi are still late and don't see another ship on planet or how Mae doesn't ask Osha and Qimir who they are when she lost her memories). I saw on net that people said that Disney should allow more episodes but I disagree with this point as Acolyte got 8 episode but episode 4 and 5 look like someone decided to split it in two instead to have it as one episode and episode 7 could be instead of episode 3 and we could get in episode 7 why Osha wanted to be Qimir's apperantice so it didn't feel so forced.

From actors/characters I think only Sol and Qimir were interesting. Unfortunately Amanda Stenberg didn't make Mae/Osha interesting but I blame script because their motivation changed as plot required(but it canbe said for most chraracters). Vernestra wasn't also very interesting.

Also, if Qimir's helmet block Force, how he can use Force if he wear it. It is just blockng "incoming" Force?

What is most dissapointing for me, is that all Disney SW shows have interesting idea but except Mando's 2 seasons and Andor, the execution is at best mediocre or just bad.



 

 

[Grimnar]

How Vernestra thought that blaming Sol for murders is supposed to work when he has alibi for first murder? I mean there was literally witness who saw it. And I don't think that "this is version for Senate" and for Jedi council there is different version is going to work.

[HawkeyeLo]

I hope this gets a second season. I think there’s good here; it just needs slightly better execution. Manny Jacinto was great, as were the fight scenes. And someone questioning the Jedi’s need to deny all attachment and most emotions is necessary (says the former teenager with crushes on Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi who just wanted them to get some already).

A podcast I listen to posited (based on interviews) that the showrunner actually wanted to have a Sith protagonist all along, but she wasn’t allowed to. I can see that. It drives home to me that Kathleen Kennedy shouldn’t be in charge of Star Wars anymore. Don’t be afraid to let people tell the stories they want to tell. (Also, Mando and others have the odious task of trying to make the sequel trilogy work, and that tends to drag them down.)

I was actually kind of bummed they brought in Yoda. I didn’t need him. It’s this constant sense of needing to bring in known characters to tie back to the original series. Tell new stories! It’s okay! Yes, there will always be a toxic and overly vocal fan contingent that hates them, but most people are welcoming of good writing and storytelling. It may not always be successful, but let people try new things.

Edited July 17 by HawkeyeLo

[paigow]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeLo said:

It may not always be successful, but let people try new things.

Sounds very Sith... Freedom to wield my power

2 hours ago, HawkeyeLo said:

It drives home to me that Kathleen Kennedy shouldn’t be in charge of Star Wars anymore.

 

[paigow]

6 hours ago, Grimnar said:

How Vernestra thought that blaming Sol for murders is supposed to work when he has alibi for first murder? 

Sol trained Mae, then ordered her to do the hit....

[yowsah1]

Long time lurker popping in to make just one observation...

Jedi Master Sol.  He died as he lived - trying to confess his sins and explain what happened and getting interrupted Every. Single. Time.  ;)

[tkc]

Well, Osha found a way to resolve the ambiguity of Qimir’s task… she killed a Jedi without a weapon without a weapon. Not only that, she destroyed her Sol in the process.

[Chyromaniac]

I'm not into the Star Wars books in general - but I'd heard good things about the High Republic series, and was curious to see it in live action in this show.  Maybe I got the wrong impression, but this show feels like a poor introduction.  Like, who am I supposed to root for coming out of this?  The Jedi who pins a massacre on her dead friend based off little actual proof?  The Sith indoctrinator/mass murderer?  The evil twin who killed two Jedi - but couldn't decide if she wanted to take responsibility or not?  The "good twin" who mostly just tagged along with whoever - but choked her mentor to death before leaving with the guy who killed her friends?

Sorry - that last point really sticks with me.  In retrospect, I was really only invested in two characters for this entire show.  They seemed like fun, interesting, genuinely good people - exactly who I thought the Jedi were supposed to be in the High Republic.  But they were unceremoniously killed in Episode 5, and basically left in a field and forgotten for the rest of the season.  Maybe I would've felt a little more charitable towards the finale if there had been any kind of justice for Yord and Jecki (or any of the other dead Jedi).  But Sol takes the blame, and the apparent protagonist of the show ends up holding hands with their murderer.  Hey Osha - Jecki and Yord actually were your friends.  They died trying to protect you, and even when they thought you were a killer (and I guess just wait on that), they treated you reasonably well.  And this is how you repay them?

Yes, there were some other enjoyable parts of this series.  The fight choreography was really top notch.  Lee Jung-Jae did as good a job as possible for an actor who had to speak his lines phonetically.  I think they did a decent job of introducing cortosis into the main continuity.  Manny is good at being creepy - although if we're supposed to empathize with him at the end, then nope.

Overall though, it's just kind of a mess.  The pacing - both of the season, and the individual episodes - felt off throughout.  A lot of the character motivation felt arbitrary and/or lacked consistency.  There were weird tone shifts at various points.  This only feels like half a story - and we have no idea when/if it's going to be resolved.  And chiefly, I don't see the point in having Amandla play two roles (even if they're "the same person," whatever that means...) when they ultimately felt like they had the same personality.

Basically, if this show were food, it would be a weird deconstruction made by culinary students who don't seem to have learned how to cook the actual dish.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Chyromaniac said:

 Like, who am I supposed to root for coming out of this?  The Jedi who pins a massacre on her dead friend based off little actual proof?  The Sith indoctrinator/mass murderer?  The evil twin who killed two Jedi - but couldn't decide if she wanted to take responsibility or not?  The "good twin" who mostly just tagged along with whoever - but choked her mentor to death before leaving with the guy who killed her friends?

Yeah, that bothered me too. Mae basically gets let off the hook, while Osha apparently doesn’t care that her two friends—who had nothing to do with happened to her mother—were killed?

Maybe it would help if it got another season or had more room to breathe, but it all felt kind of rushed. Amandla’s acting was great though.

[Ilovepie]

Well, this happened. I honestly cannot say how I feel about it. Mostly annoyed, I guess because I think this could have been a cool show if it had actually been about a Sith and his Acolyte. 

Man, they really leaned HARD into the Jedi Are Assholes narrative here, didn't they? Was that last shot of Yoda to imply that he was complicit in the version of events that Venestra is selling????? Wow.

The most satisfying moment of this show for me was Osha force choking Sol and the lightsaber turning red. He really came off terrible in the end, barely even able to apologize for murdering their mother and acting like he did them a favor. Squeeze harder Osha!!!!

The progression of this show from episode to episode was terrible. I wish it had been told in a linear fashion instead of so many flashbacks. I wish the story had been tighter and we got to explore what Brendok actually was that enabled the witches to create the girls. I wanted more of Qimir and Osha his Acolyte. I think Amandla Stenberg played both characters exactly the same and her performance was mostly as wooden as Rosario Dawson playing Ahsoka. In the end it wasn't necessary for her to play both Osha and Mae since they weren't technically twins. The memes of her having one expression for everything is spot on unfortunately.

I guess I like this more than I did Ahsoka, but the quality of these shows seems to have flatlined lately. I don't think this will get a second season which makes it even worse. 

Nothing to do but wait for Andor now. ONE WAY OUT!!!!! 😜

[paigow]

On 7/17/2024 at 2:41 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

She's got Mae with the mindwipe in her pocket, and she knows Smilo is out there now.

What will we see when her current Padewan takes off his shirt? He is like the Naples field operative in Bourne 2 and she is like Pam Landy - but with extra rage issues and a whip...

 

Edited July 19 by paigow

[DoctorAtomic]

26 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Was that last shot of Yoda to imply that he was complicit in the version of events that Venestra is selling?????

I thought she was meeting with him to loop him in at that point. Micromanager, Yoda does not strike me as. 

 

 

[Makai]

On 7/16/2024 at 7:50 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Nice catch. That's got to be the only other time. In this episode and in ANH, the Force is mentioned as a 'religion', but I think that's it. 

It’s said several times going back to ANH where Owen says there will be hell to pay. There have also been mentions of gods and goddesses like when C-3P0 was worshipped as “some sort of god” and the Mortis Gods. 

Edited July 18 by Makai

[Shanna Marie]

16 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

But Sol takes the blame, and the apparent protagonist of the show ends up holding hands with their murderer.  Hey Osha - Jecki and Yord actually were your friends.  They died trying to protect you, and even when they thought you were a killer (and I guess just wait on that), they treated you reasonably well.  And this is how you repay them?

This is a problem for me. I'm not a fan of the too-easy, last-minute "redemption," but I like even less seeing a good character turn to the bad, with the show trying to justify that choice. I can see Osha feeling betrayed by Sol, but that doesn't excuse going off with the person who killed her friends, who had nothing to do with all this. I get the feeling that the show's creator has folders full of Draco/Hermione (or Harry), Spike/Buffy, and Kylo Ren/Rey fanfic.

I'm still not sure why Osha had to go with Smilo to save Mae. I guess he was determined to get one of them, and Mae wanted out, so she was "sacrificing" herself?

I don't have a problem with the Jedi being depicted as flawed. I felt like that was what they showed us in the prequels, even as they talked about them being good. I kind of like the fact that they're finally saying that the Jedi have issues.

I didn't dislike this show. I just feel like there was a lot missing. It needed to be fleshed out better so we'd have more context.

[Sarah 103]

On 7/17/2024 at 7:44 PM, HawkeyeLo said:

Also, Mando and others have the odious task of trying to make the sequel trilogy work, and that tends to drag them down.

Could you please explain/clarify what you meant by this comment? I am confused. 

23 hours ago, paigow said:

Sol trained Mae, then ordered her to do the hit....

Maybe this could work as a cover story. Sol claims only one twin survives but somehow spent over a decade training and keeping the supposedly dead twin alive with help from someone or multiple people. 

8 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I wish the story had been tighter and we got to explore what Brendok actually was that enabled the witches to create the girls.

I didn't think it was some specific/unique to Brendok. My understanding (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the witches found an abandoned, uninhabited planet that was outside Republic jurisdiction. It didn't have to be Brendok and there may have been other planets that would have worked for them, they just selected Brendok for one reason or another. I thought the witches could have created the twins on another planet just as easily. What was crucial was the witches power, not something location specific. 

[DoctorAtomic]

58 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I can see Osha feeling betrayed by Sol, but that doesn't excuse going off with the person who killed her friends, who had nothing to do with all this.

58 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I didn't dislike this show. I just feel like there was a lot missing. It needed to be fleshed out better so we'd have more context.

I think you're answering your own question here, which I've been saying too. We were told Osha left the order because Sol was too guilty to train her properly. I've never seen a sabre go straight red on the draw though. That's some powerful dark side. Normally the Sith use synthetic crystals that are red, but iirc, you've got to be up there to bleed a natural crystal. On the flip side, the pure white sabre is the converse of that, and only Kenobi and Ahsoka had white. It's canon Ahsoka took an Inquisitor's red to bleed it white. 

With more context, I'm wondering if maybe given the trauma of seemingly losing her sister, and everyone dying that Osha did have some of that dark side in her, and maybe they were created from that side of the force in this vergence. So she left the order because it didn't sync with her. Or, she just finally got really angry about everything that's happened and it was Sol's fault so she choked him off and said "I'm just over this". That's all my inferring, and not backed up with what's on screen, but I think they could have laid that out in the show so her going off with Smilo at the end was more earned. 

40 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

What was crucial was the witches power, not something location specific. 

No, I think that Brendock had the vergence was the key catalyst to create them. Not location specific, but wherever a vergence was. Obviously, if it was located at a Republic plante where a bunch of Jedi were, then there would have been some obstacles. It's the tv cheat that this was a planet that was torn apart from the hyperspace accident and left for dead, and it's fair that the Jedi were investigating the vergence and just followed evidence were it led. They started off just taking plant samples until Sol heard the kids and was surprised other people were there. 

[conquistador]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:10 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

Cameo, killer that was!

Well, I am glad that you liked it. To me it felt pretty gross. They just couldn’t help themselves with the fanservice.

I for one won’t watch S2 if it ever comes out. I’m pretty bummed about how poorly written this turned out to be, while my expectations were so high.

[dwmarch]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Could you please explain/clarify what you meant by this comment? I am confused. 

I take it to be a reference to "somehow, Palpatine returned" from the sequel trilogy. Mando season 3 and The Bad Batch have spent some time filling in the blanks for this plot, going into greater detail about secret Empire cloning projects and M-counts and whatnot. I leave it to the individual viewer to decide if the expansion of this plot adds any value and I can certainly foresee a portion of the audience not wanting to spend precious screen time going over a plot point that was silly to begin with. If you took "somehow, Palpatine returned" to be absurd, is there any chance that it is redeemed by tying this plot into a bunch of other shows?

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, I think that Brendock had the vergence was the key catalyst to create them. Not location specific, but wherever a vergence was. Obviously, if it was located at a Republic plante where a bunch of Jedi were, then there would have been some obstacles. It's the tv cheat that this was a planet that was torn apart from the hyperspace accident and left for dead, and it's fair that the Jedi were investigating the vergence and just followed evidence were it led. They started off just taking plant samples until Sol heard the kids and was surprised other people were there. 

I thought the vergence was created when the twins were either conceived or born. Somehow, when the witches created the twins and therefore life, that caused other life like flora/plant life to emerge. The Jedi found plant life where they didn't expect it to be or shouldn't exist and thought it was worth investigating and studying. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think it was the other way around. The hyperspace incident was a hundred years prior, so I thought with basically everyone wiped out, the planet started growing over those decades. 

It could be very well the creation of the girls sparked life on the planet, but Sol seemed to believe that the vergence was used to create the twins. 

[Ilovepie]

16 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I didn't think it was some specific/unique to Brendok.

I think it actually was specific to Brendok. It's why the Jedi were there in the first place. 

[call me ishmael]

My understanding was that the vergence was connected to the explosion and that the coven found it first.

I have to say that the big loser in this series is the Obi-Wan Kenobi of ANH.  There’s only so much you can bend “the Jedi were the keepers of peace and justice until the empire” by claiming it was true “from a certain point of view.”

[HawkeyeLo]

21 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Could you please explain/clarify what you meant by this comment? I am confused.

Sorry, don’t know how to quote two posts! Yes, they have to get to “Somehow, Palpatine returned” but even more they have to explain how the New Republic fell apart so quickly. But I spent ages 7-12 (in the early 90s when there wasn’t anything else) reading all books that are now Legends, so those are my post-Jedi world, and I just like to pretend the sequel trilogy didn’t exist (characters and actors were great, but the plot wasn’t). I wish all the shows set before it could do the same. We are where we are now, though!

Still hope this gets a season 2. I really feel like there’s a lot of good here.

Edited July 19 by HawkeyeLo

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not sure this show needs to get to "Somehow, Palpatine returned". It's still about 50 years ish until he's born. 

I certainly want TPTBs to get the amount of time they need to tell this story; with the fair criticisms here, I think they could easily fine tune a season 2. 

A killer ending to the series would be his birth over the Imperial March. 

[Sarah 103]

 

1 hour ago, HawkeyeLo said:

Sorry, don’t know how to quote two posts! Yes, they have to get to “Somehow, Palpatine returned” but even more they have to explain how the New Republic fell apart so quickly. But I spent ages 7-12 (in the early 90s when there wasn’t anything else) reading all books that are now Legends, so those are my post-Jedi world, and I just like to pretend the sequel trilogy didn’t exist (characters and actors were great, but the plot wasn’t). I wish all the shows set before it could do the same. We are where we are now, though!

Still hope this gets a season 2. I really feel like there’s a lot of good here.

You quote two posts by pressing the button with the plus sign next to the button that's the quotation marks. I agree with you about the sequel trilogy (the problem was with the writing/plot/storyline, not the characters/actors). Season 1 of this series wasn't great, but I see the potential for a much better season 2. 

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not sure this show needs to get to "Somehow, Palpatine returned". It's still about 50 years ish until he's born. 

I certainly want TPTBs to get the amount of time they need to tell this story; with the fair criticisms here, I think they could easily fine tune a season 2. 

A killer ending to the series would be his birth over the Imperial March. 

I don't think Palpatine's birth should be part of this series for a number of reasons. I could envision another series that does not yet exist that could feature Palpatine's birth. It shouldn't be the version of the Imperial March we hear in the movie. It should be a variation on that basic theme/motif.