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Midsomer Murders - General Discussion

Lisin

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scorpio1031
scorpio1031

And Joyce Barnaby 

Prevailing Wind
Prevailing Wind

It's gotten so that when I'm watching another Brit show, I keep IMDb open on my laptop - I know that person from somewhere - and it's usually Midsomer Murders.

BlackberryJam
BlackberryJam

You can never invite Hercules Poirot, Jane Marple, Agatha Raisin or any Barnaby to an event. There's sure to be a dead body. But I do not care. I love these Brit Mysteries so much. The scene

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

I was watching it on ION earlier and couldn't stay awake. I started to fall asleep in my recliner with the TV still on - Second Sight was the episode. All of a sudden, my eyes flew open and I said to the cat, "Oh, shit. This is the one with the screaming baby," and turned off the TV.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

On 6/20/2023 at 2:43 PM, Prevailing Wind said:

I was watching it on ION earlier and couldn't stay awake. I started to fall asleep in my recliner with the TV still on - Second Sight was the episode. All of a sudden, my eyes flew open and I said to the cat, "Oh, shit. This is the one with the screaming baby," and turned off the TV.

And then there's the one with the bell ringers. Nope, life's too short.

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isalicat

isalicat

I just saw "Joyce" in a mostly peripheral role in S4 Ep1 of "Pie in the Sky", a comfy murder-mystery series that I enjoy tremendously. This is a two part episode so I presume she will be in the second one as well. The character in this case is supposed to be a highly motivated local politician, but the drama is centered around her husband so we don't see much of her...so far!

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laredhead

laredhead

6 hours ago, isalicat said:

I just saw "Joyce" in a mostly peripheral role in S4 Ep1 of "Pie in the Sky", a comfy murder-mystery series that I enjoy tremendously.

I like Pie in the Sky as well.  I have watched all but the last few episodes of the final season, and don't remember seeing the actress who plays Joyce.  I'll search for this episode later today.  Thanks for mentioning it.  

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Grundoon59

Grundoon59

I am also a Pie in the Sky fan and love seeing actors pop up from other British shows.  This is reminder that I need to go back and watch the whole series again.  I discovered in during the pandemic and watched it slightly out of order at first but still enjoyed it.  

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isalicat

isalicat

So it turned out that "Joyce" was present, but equally detached from the actual proceedings, as in the previous part of the "Pie in the Sky" episode (S4 1, 2)

But I just realized it featured (and it took me a while to recognize her) a young and brilliant Keeley Hawes, one of my fav British actors. Was she ever in a Midsomer Murder?

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
On 7/18/2023 at 6:02 AM, isalicat said:

But I just realized it featured (and it took me a while to recognize her) a young and brilliant Keeley Hawes, one of my fav British actors. Was she ever in a Midsomer Murder?

Most people are, eventually, but Keeley hasn't been (yet).

Having invested in a Firestick, giving me much easier access to ITV Hub, I'm in the middle of a mammoth Midsomer Murders rewatch. I watched the show right from the start, so saw (or at least thought I had seen) every episode as it originally aired, and then old episodes are on all the time, so I could have sworn I had seen every episode multiple times. And yet. Every now and then on this rewatch, via ITV Hub, I come across an old episode I have no memory of ever having watched. I can only assume I missed a few when they first aired and then those episodes for whatever reason aren't often included in reruns.

After years and years of just watching random episodes as and when they happened to be available, it's fascinating to rewatch now - my first all-episodes-in-order rewatch since the show first aired. Baby Troy. Scott such a deliberate contrast - and he stuck around rather longer than I remembered, as well. I've just reached Baby Jones, who again is crafted as a very deliberate contrast to Scott, while also being strikingly different from Troy. Well played, Show.

Rewatching as a semi-marathon like this is driving home the fact that I don't really like Cully all that much.

Edited by Llywela
clarity
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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

On 10/3/2022 at 3:06 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching Sins Of Commission. Can anybody tell me what the girls were on the stage yelling about. I couldn't read their sign or really understand what they were on about.

Did anybody ever answer you?  "The pen is mightier than the pouuu-uuund."

Someone on FB posted one of those cautions for women about being careful now that the days are getting shorter - don't pump gas or visit ATMs after dark, etc.  I reposted it and suggest parents raise their sons not to be "sex pests."  I'm so happy I got to use Peaches' epithet for Daniel, the Gardener, who became John Barnaby.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

18 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Did anybody ever answer you?  "The pen is mightier than the pouuu-uuund."

Someone on FB posted one of those cautions for women about being careful now that the days are getting shorter - don't pump gas or visit ATMs after dark, etc.  I reposted it and suggest parents raise their sons not to be "sex pests."  I'm so happy I got to use Peaches' epithet for Daniel, the Gardener, who became John Barnaby.

Iol, I believe it was "revolting sex pest". The brits are so much better with the language than we humble yanks.

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WildPlum

WildPlum

If you liked Midsomer, you might try Chelsea Detective on Acorn. Same kind of quirky murder mystery. It has the unfortunate Acorn theory of "4 episodes? Yes, that is an entire season". We are  on Season 2 and they replaced his DS from season 1 (unfortunate, I liked Sonita Henry in the role) and are featuring a bit more secondary cast, there are 2 DCs and a new DS this season.

 

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Pine

Pine

I am now officially starting over the entire series for the 4th time.  Alone, as my spouse and daughter are not interested in going through them again.  I am in TV viewing heaven.💗

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Kemper

Kemper

I know this has been much discussed. But. My PBS station has been showing the older “Barnaby” seasons with Tom lately. They are still such fun to watch. The murderous villagers, priests, wine bottle catapulters, etc. The body counts! The different sergeants - we remember them alI. Sadly, I don’t think I will ever feel that way about the newer episodes. One and done. They are not bad…but something is missing. Maybe the writing could improve; I think the current “Barnaby” is here to stay.

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

1 hour ago, Kemper said:

I know this has been much discussed. But. My PBS station has been showing the older “Barnaby” seasons with Tom lately. They are still such fun to watch. The murderous villagers, priests, wine bottle catapulters, etc. The body counts! The different sergeants - we remember them alI. Sadly, I don’t think I will ever feel that way about the newer episodes. One and done. They are not bad…but something is missing. Maybe the writing could improve; I think the current “Barnaby” is here to stay.

I'm watching "Faithful Unto Death" right now - a very early one, based on one of the novels.  I really enjoy the early ones, except for that jerky Troy.  I kind of wish Ben had been there from the start, leaving out the distasteful Troy of the novels.

 

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Llywela

Llywela

7 hours ago, Kemper said:

 I think the current “Barnaby” is here to stay.

Neil Dudgeon has been in the role for 12 years and seven (and a half) seasons at this point - he's not far off John Nettles for years with the show, in fact, although there have been fewer seasons in those years, not least because of covid. So yes, I think it is safe to say that he is here to stay!

I found it hard to adjust to the new Barnaby at first, as we all did, but as the years have passed I've become just as fond of him and his family and his sergeants as I was Tom and his crew. In fact, I like John's wife Sarah more than I ever liked Joyce or Cully (is it heresy to admit that here?). I like both Winter and Nelson more than I ever liked Scott or Troy, for that matter, although Jones is still my favourite.

The show isn't the same as it was, for sure. It has moved with the times, as we all must. But there is as much to enjoy in the newer seasons as there is in the older ones, imo, even if it does take a bit of adjustment to the slightly altered style.

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

(is it heresy to admit that here?).

No, it's not. I liked how Joyce was always trying new things to be involved in the community.  She really needed more cooking lessons, but I suppose the series needed some sort of running joke.

I found Cully totally tiresome.

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

On 9/7/2023 at 12:05 PM, WildPlum said:

If you liked Midsomer, you might try Chelsea Detective on Acorn. Same kind of quirky murder mystery. It has the unfortunate Acorn theory of "4 episodes? Yes, that is an entire season". We are  on Season 2 and they replaced his DS from season 1 (unfortunate, I liked Sonita Henry in the role) and are featuring a bit more secondary cast, there are 2 DCs and a new DS this season.

 

Well, I looked it up on Acorn. Holy crap, the lead is played by Adrian Scarborough, better known to us as Peter Fogden, the leader of "the goddamn bellringers."  LOL. (He also played two other characters in MM, but I remember him best as Fogden.)

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

9 minutes ago, Pine said:

BritBox is not showing all the episodes.  Is there another place to see all of them?  I still prefer the original cast,  including Troy.

Acorn, I think

PlutoTV has a "live" version streaming - you watch what they're showing. They have a channel dedicated to MM.  They also have an "On Demand" version - I don't know how far the episodes go, but it starts out with The Killings at Badger's Drift.

 

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Llywela

Llywela

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

No, it's not. I liked how Joyce was always trying new things to be involved in the community.  She really needed more cooking lessons, but I suppose the series needed some sort of running joke.

Fun fact - Joyce being a lousy cook was a character note taken straight from the books!

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laredhead

laredhead

3 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Well, I looked it up on Acorn. Holy crap, the lead is played by Adrian Scarborough, better known to us as Peter Fogden, the leader of "the goddamn bellringers."  LOL. (He also played two other characters in MM, but I remember him best as Fogden.)

Thank you, thank you for reminding us that he played Peter in the bellringers episode.  I have been trying to figure out where I had seen him on other shows.  I like The Chelsea Detective, and just finished the first season.   

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mellyf

mellyf

On 9/7/2023 at 11:05 AM, WildPlum said:

If you liked Midsomer, you might try Chelsea Detective on Acorn. Same kind of quirky murder mystery. It has the unfortunate Acorn theory of "4 episodes? Yes, that is an entire season". We are  on Season 2 and they replaced his DS from season 1 (unfortunate, I liked Sonita Henry in the role) and are featuring a bit more secondary cast, there are 2 DCs and a new DS this season.

 

Thanks for the heads-up! We watched the first season when it was on, and really enjoyed it. I'm disappointed to learn that they replaced his DS. I liked her too. 

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I just remember the one where they were eating quail, I think? and spitting bird shot onto their plates.

Rabbit rather than quail. But it was Tom who cooked it rather than Joyce, that time. Rabbit donated by the wife of the murderer (another of the friends Tom made during an investigation who turned out to be the killer). The buckshot from the rabbit ended up being vital evidence, after Joyce and Cully gamely sifted through the rubbish in search of it.

(Rewatched that one only recently, so it's fresh in my memory)

Edited by Llywela
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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

(Rewatched that one only recently, so it's fresh in my memory)

Me, too. As Ben was "dialing" the phone to call Joyce, I told the cat, "Have the bin men come?"

Their dinner guest was an evil friend of Cully's.  She has abominable taste in friends - the four that tried to drown her and now this one, blackmailing that nice man who, along with his late wife, ran a home for wayward young women.

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

On 9/11/2023 at 8:13 AM, laredhead said:

Thank you, thank you for reminding us that he played Peter in the bellringers episode.  I have been trying to figure out where I had seen him on other shows.  I like The Chelsea Detective, and just finished the first season.   

I finished the Chelsea Detective, enjoyed it. When it was done, I flipped over to Pluto's perpetual MM channel and in a master stroke of synchronicity, the bellringers episode was just starting.  LOL.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Today, the MM channel had that one with Cully's high school friends. Between those awful people in that one, and that girl in the buckshot-filled rabbit episode, Cully certainly has bad taste in friends.

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scorpio1031

scorpio1031

23 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Today, the MM channel had that one with Cully's high school friends. Between those awful people in that one, and that girl in the buckshot-filled rabbit episode, Cully certainly has bad taste in friends.

She gets that from her father - Tom trusted those two guys in the buckshot episode and they were lying.  He trusted the guy in the boxing episode and that didn’t end well either 

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

18 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

She gets that from her father - Tom trusted those two guys in the buckshot episode and they were lying.  He trusted the guy in the boxing episode and that didn’t end well either 

At least he's got the Bullards as good friends.

The guy in the boxing episode is the same guy who played the "traveler" in that one where the couples exchanged partners & Tom hid a candy bar in the glove box that Troy stole & ate while he was on a stakeout.  AND he's the guy who played Gibbs, Capt. Jack Sparrow's first mate! He's sometimes billed as Kevin McNally & sometimes as Kevin R. McNally.  I am a frequent user of imdb. LOL

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kaygeeret

kaygeeret

My local PBS station is running the first 11 seasons - basically the Troy years.

Some seasons only had 3 shows so 11 seasons does not add up to much.

At any rate, I have now seen those reruns so often I can repeat dialogue - - kidding.

I am really sick of them and would Love to see other seasons in reruns.  the answer I got from  local PBS was that those seasons are 'free'.

I would LOVE reruns of the 'new' Barnaby years.

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scorpio1031

scorpio1031

16 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

My local PBS station is running the first 11 seasons - basically the Troy years.

Some seasons only had 3 shows so 11 seasons does not add up to much.

At any rate, I have now seen those reruns so often I can repeat dialogue - - kidding.

I am really sick of them and would Love to see other seasons in reruns.  the answer I got from  local PBS was that those seasons are 'free'.

I would LOVE reruns of the 'new' Barnaby years.

The MM channel on Pluto shows episodes through season 21 and it’s free.  The MM Roku channel shows episodes out of order and they are now up to season 17 - also free.

 

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Llywela

Llywela

My ongoing complete series re-watch via ITV Hub has come to the end of the Tom Barnaby years. *sob* I'm gonna miss him all over again, John Nettles was so perfectly cast in the role.

On to the John Barnaby years. Now, I like John and his family, they've grown on me enormously over the years. But he does get off to a shaky start. His first episode is very weak. I can see what the writers were aiming for. They foresaw how wary their audience would be of this newbie in their comfort show and tried to incorporate predicted viewer concerns into the story in order to address them head-on - trouble is, I think they went a bit too far and were too heavy-handed about it, so that they ended up playing into those doubts instead of allaying them. They wanted to show John's detective skills in a good light, but made the mistake of throwing the established, audience-favourite character of Jones under the bus a bit so that John would shine in comparison - never a good move, in any show (and too many of them do it).

Also, this episode goes a bit over the top with the whole 'Jones is a Midsomer native' theme, which was always a slightly dicey character note at the best of times. If they wanted the character to be a Midsomer native, they really shouldn't have cast a Welsh actor with a pronounced Welsh accent! If Jones had spent as much of his upbringing in Midsomer as the show wants us to believe, he would not have a Welsh accent, he just wouldn't - Midsomer's fictional location is within the London commuter belt. This was an area where the show always wanted to have its cake and eat it too: Jones's Welshness is acknowledged on the one hand, but really can't be reconciled with his 'raised in Midsomer' character background that the writers found so useful as a narrative tool.

Anyway, I want to be positive about the start of the John Barnaby era, so I shall say about his first episode that the show succeeds in establishing him as being just as capable a detective as his cousin while also being cut from a different cloth entirely: Tom was very much an old-school copper who'd risen through the ranks, while John is university-educated, the kind who'd have gone straight in as a detective without working the beat first. And he is quirky in a way that is perfectly Midsomer.

I'm interested to see on this in-order re-watch how long it takes before I feel like John has really found his place in the show. From memory, I feel like I'd fully accepted him by the time Betty was born but it remained rocky up till about that time. It'll be interesting to see if I feel the same way this time around.

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
6 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I think I can safely say most Americans' ears don't notice how a Welsh accent differs from any of the English accents. Now, Scots - we can recognize that. LOL.

Whereas to us Brits the difference between English and Welsh accents is glaring, they are two different countries in just the same way that England and Scotland are two different countries. Americans not being able to distinguish the Welsh accent is probably mostly down to lack of exposure.

Jones's accent is very South Wales Welsh, similar to mine (although he's more westerly than me - and yes, our ears can pinpoint accents on an intensely local basis like that!). Midsomer seems to move around a bit, being fictional, but is mostly located somewhere near Oxfordshire, within the London commuter belt - that's very garden of England, which is a very specific accent, what you might call 'neutral' RP English.

Basically, Jones having a Welsh accent when he supposedly grew up in Midsomer is as glaring as if he had a Scottish accent, having supposedly grown up in Midsomer. It's a discrepancy in the character background that jumps out at me every time they tell us he's a local or talk about his primary school friends in some obscure Midsomer village, or whatever. Especially since the show also repeatedly admits that he is Welsh - can't have it both ways! (It's kind of like if a show set in New York had a character who had supposedly lived in New York most of their life from early childhood on, yet spoke with a pronounced Texas accent.)

He's still great, though. My favourite of the sergeants. He's observant and snarky and has slightly more brains than most of his peers. Slightly. And his intensely down-to-earth nature makes a really good foil for John Barnaby, who tends to be quite cerebral.

ETA - being a Brit, I always notice the regional accents of the guest characters, especially those claiming to be Midsomer natives - a lot are fairly RP English, but some are distinctly regional, the northern ones tend to be every bit as glaring as Jones!

16 hours ago, Llywela said:

I'm interested to see on this in-order re-watch how long it takes before I feel like John has really found his place in the show. From memory, I feel like I'd fully accepted him by the time Betty was born but it remained rocky up till about that time. It'll be interesting to see if I feel the same way this time around.

Okay, so the answer to this question is: the end of his second episode. The first is a rocky start to the character and I can see why viewers are wary of him - aided and abetted by Jones and Bullard also being wary of him. In that first episode especially the writers seem to be struggling to know how to integrate this very different personality into the Midsomer formula and don't quite get the balance right. But by the end of his second episode, wife Sarah has arrived (I really like Sarah), he's getting on better with Jones, and I'm not missing Tom, Joyce or Cully at all any more.

I know it took longer than that to get used to him first time around, but I've watched and re-watched his episodes many times since then, at random, which is making the transition easier now that I'm doing this complete in-order re-watch of the entire show.

I enjoy seeing how the dynamics change, with a new DCI. Tom and George Bullard were old friends from way back, and Bullard flounders a bit with a new DCI to bounce off, one he doesn't know at all, it pushes him out of his comfort zone. Easy to see why he so quickly follows Tom into retirement. Whereas Jones, once he gets over the awkwardness of having a new boss and wanting to impress, he has a more equal relationship with John than he had with Tom. Tom was that much older, more the elder statesman, the one who plucked Jones out of uniform and promoted him to detective, whereas John is nearer to his own age and they first meet as fellow detectives. There is still a difference in rank, and the relationship is still a bit combative in these early episodes, but it is much nearer to a partnership of equals than it ever could have been with Tom - which is something John never has again, iirc, once Jones moves on and he starts to get keen new young detectives coming through.

Last thought on the dawn of the John Barnaby era: I miss Gail Stevens. I know the show was originally conceived as a duo and that's the classic standard, but I felt that having another regular detective in the team added a lot to the show and I miss that once it is gone.

Edited by Llywela
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partofme

partofme

13 hours ago, Llywela said:

Last thought on the dawn of the John Barnaby era: I miss Gail Stevens. I know the show was originally conceived as a duo and that's the classic standard, but I felt that having another regular detective in the team added a lot to the show and I miss that once it is gone.

Honestly this is the reason I never warmed up to the John Barnaby era.  I loved the interactions between Stevens and Jones and the show wasn't the same without her.

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
On 10/3/2023 at 9:42 PM, partofme said:

Honestly this is the reason I never warmed up to the John Barnaby era.  I loved the interactions between Stevens and Jones and the show wasn't the same without her.

For me, although I miss Stevens, losing her isn't a deal-breaker. I don't actually know the reason she disappears, whether it was the actress wanting to move on or the production team deciding to revert to the original formula of lead detective plus sidekick. I do think that it would have strengthened the show to keep her around, especially during the transitional period, when Jones's character in particular would have benefitted from having a trusted colleague to bounce off as he adjusted to the new boss. I think that having Stevens in that recurring role added value to the show, while it lasted, lending versatility to the storytelling and character dynamics. But like I said, it isn't a deal-breaker for me. I miss Stevens once she is gone, but she isn't essential to my enjoyment of the show.

My rewatch is now nearing the end of John Barnaby's first season and I already feel like he's been there forever, which is interesting, because I know it took longer than that to adjust to him first time around. I remember finding all the changes quite off-putting back then, and still feel that his very first episode (as the lead) is quite poor, quite jarring, which is unfortunate as he really needed to get off to a strong start. A lot of people were probably put off by the weak writing during the transitional episodes and may not have stuck around past that. But this is the first time I've rewatched every episode in order since they originally aired, although I've caught most of them multiple times in re-runs here and there over the years, and my honest appraisal, this time around, is that the new era settles into a rhythm much faster than I'd realised or remembered. And once it settles, it really isn't all that different than the earlier era and is just as much fun to watch. By the end of John's first season, he and Jones have developed a really strong rapport (it probably helps that Jones gets to save John's life multiple times in those first few episodes), new pathologist Kate Wilding is off to a good start, and Sarah is fantastic - I love what a contrast she makes to Joyce. Where Joyce, being a generation older, was a stay-at-home mother turned empty-nester always trying different hobbies and activities to keep herself occupied, Sarah has a career of her own to focus on and pursue, while still taking an interest in her husband's work. It makes for a completely different energy, a completely different relationship dynamic, which was needed, just as John's more cerebral approach, as a psychology graduate, needed to be different from Tom's old school policing style.

I dunno. It all works for me. I am enjoying this rewatch through the John era just as much as I enjoyed rewatching the Tom era.

Edited by Llywela
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