S21.E14: Cruising to a Win

[dleighg]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I know there has been discussion about the chefs having to possibly deal with motion sickness, but I wonder if any of the judges did as well. I'd have to think it'd be miserable to deal with that and have to eat

ugh. I don't want to even think about that. That was a big boat, and perhaps even at rest, so maybe not so bad. I did an ocean crossing on the Berents Sea on a 100 guest ship and I was absolutely miserable. 

[Corgi-ears]

Huh: all this talk about how the seas may have been choppy, and how the chefs may have been seasick, etc. must mean that I am the only one cynical enough to think that the ship never actually set sail, and that the entire final was them just cooking on a docked ship. 

I mean, right before the chefs headed into the kitchen to cook, we did get this shot, seemingly of a VAST OCEAN:

Before they did so, they got to have a nice breakfast with the judges. We get shots of each waking up in their cabins, lots of stretching and curtain-drawing. Great. Now let's further set the scene! Ooh, a majestic panning shot of the Eurodam:

Let's pan a little more! More! Panning!

Um, waaaait a minute...

 

Edited June 21 by Corgi-ears

[dleighg]

3 hours ago, cmahorror said:

Then Tom, talk to your editing team and maybe have them cut the people saying that they cannot stop eating Dan's dish after eating the other chefs. Maybe don't have them show conversation talking about the errors, mainly on Danny and Savannah's side, with the meals

EXACTLY! Yes, Tom, you're right. We didn't eat the meal or listen to your EXTENDED commentary. All we can go by is what we saw on the Tee-Vee, and many of us, based on that, thought that Dan won.

[violet and green]

It is odd, as from what I saw (leaving Savannah out of the equation after her pasta), Dan had a mixed response to his first course; a very positive reception to his second; and positive responses to three and four.

Danny had a good response to his first course, apart from Tom pointing out it lacked salt: mixed responses to his second and third courses; and a very positive response to his dessert.

They did not paint a clear picture of how they arrived at the final decision. If the final course was so good it erased any errors in the previous ones, I did not grasp that. Anyway, it is over, and I am glad of that.

[Lassus]

Pretty sure rough waters can even affect a docked ship, depending on how enclosed or not the docking area is.

I fully disagree with comments about the lame season or lame contestants or lame Kristen.  I thought she was great and sure I loved Padma, but as far as I'm concerned for a show about food, having a real, true chef is a better idea.  I'll even admit here my bias, that her being hot as shit every episode doesn't hurt.  I liked her in the role even with the faults, and I have no doubt she will improve.  As far as everything else, maybe I'm just an easier audience.  I can see Gail being annoyed with Kristen (although I didn't notice), it's her pilot season, change is always weird.

For me it's never the people that I find lame or not, it's the production.  My least favorite thing about this episode was the cruise ship, because, well, it's a cruise ship.  I have burned into my brain FROM A DOZEN YEARS AGO the biathlon challenge because it was quite simply the stupidest thing I had ever seen.  Most challenges that have nothing to do with cooking irritate me, although I'm sure there are some I liked; just overall they are my least favorite.  But I rarely find a whole group of chefs any kind of problem.  I really liked some of the challenges this year.

Edited June 21 by Lassus

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

Huh: all this talk about how the seas may have been choppy, and how the chefs may have been seasick, etc. must mean that I am the only one cynical enough to think that the ship never actually set sail, and that the entire final was them just cooking on a docked ship. 

 

From everything I'm reading and the from shots where you can see out the windows it looks like for at least part of the time they were actually sailing. But motion sickness aboard a ship like that can be made worse for other reasons such as where the kitchen is located, as in how high up and how far forward/rear of the ship it is.  It is often said that motion sickness is worse in the very front and rear of a ship and also worse on the higher decks than lower ones. Also, those kitchens have no windows and the chefs are often looking down, which is the worst thing you can do if you want to avoid seasickness. The advice is to look up and preferably out of a window. They didn't have that opportunity in the kitchen. Also even in the Caribbean, the seas can be choppier in November, which is when this was filmed, and that could have meant more movement even on a docked ship. Put all of those conditions together and it may explain why seasickness could have been an issue even on a docked ship.

ETA: OK, I just looked at the deck plans for the Eurodam and the Tamarind restaurant/grill where this was filmed is located at the very top and front of the ship, which to me explains everything about why seasickness was such an issue during the filming of this finale. This is a very tall ship so the top deck is going to be very high relative to the lower decks and experience more motion than pretty much any other deck, and being far forward makes it even worse. To be honest I'm not a fan of the new ships being bigger and taller every time. The Eurodam looks positively top heavy. Not good for seasickness.

Edited June 21 by Yeah No

[Rammchick]

6 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

Huh: all this talk about how the seas may have been choppy, and how the chefs may have been seasick, etc. must mean that I am the only one cynical enough to think that the ship never actually set sail, and that the entire final was them just cooking on a docked ship. 

I mean, right before the chefs headed into the kitchen to cook, we did get this shot, seemingly of a VAST OCEAN:

 

It was late when I was watching, granted, but it seemed to me that it was very light out when they finished and were sitting on the deck waiting for the verdict.  They first had breakfast and then started their 2.5 hr cook.  Generally these shoots take hours and hours, not to mention the judges table.  So when the heck could that have been filmed?

[surfgirl]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:21 AM, Corgi-ears said:

Kristen, buddy, you're coming a bit too close to making it all about you.

I felt the same way. 

17 hours ago, AriAu said:

BUT she did go a little over the top this week about how excited she was to name someone Top Chef, like that was more important than someone WINNING the title of Top Chef. And as much as I enjoyed Kristen, I missed Padma and the gravitas and compassion that she brought to the moment. YMMV.....and she may get there. 

Yup, I saw and felt this as well.

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Yes and yes about Kristen making it about her with announcing the winner.  I didn't mind it once but she kept on it like a kid.  Sometimes she baffles me as she acts so polished and mature and then suddenly will act like a self-centered kid.  It makes me think sometimes that she's putting on an act. 

Same here. Overall, I'm nit sure a YC winner is the best choice to host this show. Aside from the above comments, all of which h I agree with, something about Kristen just rubs me the wrong way. Like, Padma was sort of cool abd aloof a lotnof the time but it just felt like who she is and for whatever reason it wasn't off-putting to me. Kristen just comes across as sort if above it all, like "YES, I am a TV winner..." I don't know why but that's how I feel about her.

As I've said before, I feel thr entire show needs an overhaul on all fronts. Case in point: the TC judges seemed embarrassed at the low level of quality coming out of that first challenge last week. In a Buddha season they would have had sublime dishes, but thisnyear not so much. Though I will say, no matter if two flakes of salt were needed for Danny's scallop dish, his presentation was, IMO, Michelin level gorgeous l, as was his presentation with the sauce presented in the shell. 

[Tango64]

It would be helpful and very interesting to show some of the judges' discussion that leads to the final decision. Maybe not every episode, but certainly for the finale. Let's see a bit of their recap, disagreements, and convincing one another.

But alas, that would detract from the big dramatic reveal at the end, and that is the raison d'etre for a show like this. Maybe they could make it available online afterward.

 

[tinderbox]

Happy Danny won.  I was a bit surprised because I thought the edit for the last episode veered towards a Dan win.  They sure love to manipulate those edits!  
 

I thought Kristen did a remarkable job as host this season.  Very impressive.  I didn’t miss Padma one bit.  In fact, I never even gave her a thought.  (Not a slam to Padma.  I like her.)

[pasdetrois]

I assume Kristen received lots of coaching from production on how to behave on camera.

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Dan had SUCH a strong final cook — that had to be a super close #1a and #1b.

Kristen said (in an interview posted in the Media thread) they didn't discuss it for very long (Tom has said on social media it took 90 minutes) as Danny was the unanimous winner:

Quote

Obviously, this is my first time sitting on that side of the table being part of it, but I didn’t find it to be long or drawn out. We were all unanimously in agreement on our winner. I don’t remember having any major points of contention, or disagreements, or different points of views of who we thought was better or not.

 

Edited June 21 by Bastet

[buttersister]

We’ve heard these discussions can go on for hours, so relatively speaking, 90 minutes  isn’t that much. Although I’m hard pressed to figure what all took so long if it wss unanimous. Except for appearance sake.

Easy to remember the criticisms for me. But a few grains of salt on an otherwise perfect dish? He never said under-seasoned. Hard to eat (Judge, include a negative thought.) Modern, creative menu? Yeah. The only one of those.

[carrps]

I, for one, don't miss Padma. Hearing her mentioned here reminded me "Oh, yeah, Padma." 

I didn't watch until yesterday evening after reading the comments here, so I was watching carefully. While they were praising the taste of Dan's food, it seemed to be like something they'd get at a good, but not great, restaurant. Something he's worked on, but has no real inspiration behind him. Plus, that tuna tartare seemed to have squicked out just about everyone. Calling it a jam didn't help because tuna the texture of grapefruit? Yick.

Danny consistently impressed in all aspects of his dishes: conception, execution, flavor, presentation. The "missing" salt seemed to be the only agreed upon major flaw.

Justin Pichetrungsi was a  wonderful guest judge. Insightful and empathetic.

Poor Savannah. I think the stress got to her. Although her first and fourth courses seemed to be universally liked.

Too bad the chefs had so little time to get to know Soo. We got to know him on LCK and could see how technically skilled, quick, and able to pivot he is. Soo would have been a great sous.

 

[Pattycake2]

I am surprised that Dan didn’t win. When I go to a restaurant I want excellent food.  I don’t want a meal that is modern and innovative, but not fully developed.  Tom said cook the best meal of your life.  One of Danny’s courses, lacked salt. One was undercooked. And one was difficult to eat. He may get it right in the future. Or he may not. Time will tell.

[mlp]

14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I have a feeling there was a lot of disagreement behind the scenes about who should win this between Dan and Danny and whenever that happens the judges' comments don't seem to bear much resemblance to what we see on screen. 

That's probably true but................. Per Tom C., the judges have made their decision before editing is done so the people doing the editing know who won.  I have to think that they made it look like Dan won for the sake of drama or something.  Either they should make what we see more balanced or the judges should explain their decision more fully.

14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

As for Emeril, I've seen him in other places and he looked more subdued here than there.

I seem to remember reading, years ago now, that Emeril had had a mild stroke.  He talks like that could be the case.  However, I did some Googling and I couldn't find any such reference.  Now I'm questioning my memory.

 

14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

also knew as soon as Savannah picked Michelle it was a bad choice and I too wondered why she didn't pick either Soo or Laura.

I would have picked Soo but the chefs hadn't seen LCK and probably didn't feel like they knew him very well.  I don't think Laura was very popular with the others.  Everyone liked Michelle, me included, but I agree that she was the wrong choice for a fine dining meal.  She consistently made dishes I'd want to eat but they were usually too "rustic" or down home for a TC finale.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, mlp said:

Per Tom C., the judges have made their decision before editing is done so the people doing the editing know who won.  I have to think that they made it look like Dan won for the sake of drama or something.

Yes, people who've watched Top Chef forever (I'm one) should be familiar with the Magical Elves messing with everything. It's what they do. And I don't especially like it either. It's like a big ol' PSYCH!

[bravofan27]

There have been SO MANY Top Chef cruises over the years, I'm sure Tom and Gail are super used to them by now. https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/top-chef-at-sea-all-the-details

https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/sail-the-delicious-seas-with-top-chef-the-cruise

Edited June 22 by bravofan27

[Domenicholas]

Judges: Dan, everything in your meal was amazing except for the weird texture of the tuna on your first dish. Danny, your meal was great, but your scallops needs salt, your lobsters were almost underdone, and one of your courses were hard-to-eat. Therefore, the winner is...Danny!

Me: Huh?!

In all seriousness, I'm happy that Danny won. I would have been happy if any of them won, although I was rooting for Savannah, and I was sad to see that Michelle's (my favorite contestant this season) decisions about the courses were a big part of why Savannah lost.

Top Chef has consistently rewarded innovative chefs over ones who create simple, but well-executed food, so Danny's win fits that. I wished that the episode would have shown more of the "good, but uncreative" narrative of Dan's food like they did with Savannah's hummingbird cake rather than the "simple, but effective" narrative that tricked me at least into thinking he won.

As for why the other chefs weren't picked as sous chefs...as others have pointed out, the cheftestants didn't get a lot of time to know Soo (Dan knew him from before, but already had a good working relationship with Amanda on the show), and although Laura and Kaleena are strong chefs, they're not really good team players. I understand why the finalists would rather go with people they were comfortable with (or take a risk with Manny as Danny did).

Finally, I didn't mind Kristen's speech at the end. I'm pretty sure every Top Chef finale has long-winded from the host and all of the judges that are usually left on the cutting room floor, and sometimes not even that (Padma also had a long finale speech in what became her final season). This one was kept in because it's Kristen's first season as host, and she has been phenomenal imho :)

 

[Bastet]

12 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

Finally, I didn't mind Kristen's speech at the end.

She said in an interview she foolishly didn't even realize they were still filming by that point, to her it was just standing around talking amongst themselves after the competition was over.  (I didn't have any problem with it, period, I just noticed that part of the interview because I read it after reading some comments here about her making it all about her.)

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, mlp said:

That's probably true but................. Per Tom C., the judges have made their decision before editing is done so the people doing the editing know who won.  I have to think that they made it look like Dan won for the sake of drama or something.  Either they should make what we see more balanced or the judges should explain their decision more fully.

Yup, that I know but the business about the editing monkeys deliberately throwing us off by making Dan look like he was getting the "winner's edit" was another issue I am well aware of. I got the impression that there would have been a lot of disagreement between the judges based on their reactions after eating the food at the table. Some had nothing but praise for a dish while others had nothing but criticism for it. Some loved exactly what others didn't like about it, like some thinking a dish had enough salt vs. others thinking there wasn't enough salt, etc. So that's why I got that impression.

 

Edited June 22 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, mlp said:

I seem to remember reading, years ago now, that Emeril had had a mild stroke.  He talks like that could be the case.  However, I did some Googling and I couldn't find any such reference.  Now I'm questioning my memory.

That's interesting, I never heard that. I've seen him multiple times on the "Rachael Ray Show" over the years. He usually appeared a couple of times a season. He has also done infomercials for his products and I think I saw him on one of the streaming networks doing a show for a while. He doesn't have the energy he used to have but in all of those situations he still had a lot more than we saw in this episode. He's no chicken now and I've heard he's had his share of medical issues so he's definitely slowed down some but this lower than low-key appearance here was really out of the ordinary for him in my experience.

[bravofan27]

Emeril is probably tired. He has been working nonstop since 1970, does a million things, and it looks like travels constantly . His father recently passed away in March. So maybe he was sad too...

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I got the impression that there would have been a lot of disagreement between the judges based on their reactions after eating the food at the table. Some had nothing but praise for a dish while others had nothing but criticism for it.

I think the only people actively involved in the judging were Gail, Kristin, Tom and possibly Emeril.  All the other chefs at the table were just attendees who gave feedback but I don't believe they got a vote or a say in the final decision. 

[bravofan27]

15 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think the only people actively involved in the judging were Gail, Kristin, Tom and possibly Emeril.  All the other chefs at the table were just attendees who gave feedback but I don't believe they got a vote or a say in the final decision. 

So glad they have guest judges that aren't allowed to judge! Why don't they just call them dinner guests?

[Irlandesa]

21 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

So glad they have guest judges that aren't allowed to judge! Why don't they just call them dinner guests?

Technically, I think they did.  Kristin introduced them as guest chefs but I don't believe she ever referred to them as guest judges.

[Yeah No]

29 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think the only people actively involved in the judging were Gail, Kristin, Tom and possibly Emeril.  All the other chefs at the table were just attendees who gave feedback but I don't believe they got a vote or a say in the final decision. 

Yes I know that, I've been watching the show for close to 20 years, I know the drill, but I noticed the active judges disagreeing with each other more than usual, or at least it came across that way. There were some definite opinions pro and con and it seemed split in a lot of cases and hard to see a clear trend among the judges. I think that's one of the reasons so many of us came away scratching our heads at the outcome. That may have been partly because of the editing but they did say what they said.

[bravofan27]

I swear, if I hear Tom say something needs more salt again I am going to send him lifetime supply of saltshakers. 

[Daisychain]

There are so many thoughtful comments here that resonated with me.  

First, the edit.  I am on Twitter solely to read, and I have never posted.  It appears to me that Tom quote tweets (I am really not sure whether I'm getting that right) another poster criticizing the edit and then says the judges and he have no control about the edit.  You cannot tell where the original poster posted that tweet to which Tom responded, so it seems a bit lame. I felt the edit bordered on cunning or dishonest, and it's not just because my daughter and SIL live in Wisconsin.  It was a bit of a bait-and-switch for me; did not enjoy.  Not all will agree.

Second, Kristen - I think she has a lot of talent.  She did a season of Iron Chef (something) with Alton Brown in which they were absolutely charming together.  I'd give her a season or 2 to grow into the role and I don't think there will be a problem.  If you think of poor Katie Lee almost having an anxiety attack on Season 1 and Padma having the horror show of Season 2 as her first appearance.  

Third, I do think it would behoove the show to go out and get a few strong, recurring guest star judges that come off and on from time to time, like Bourdain, Eric Ripert, Emeril, and Wolfgang Puck used to do.  Would be nice to have some women chefs in that lineup (Mary Sue Milliken and Susan Feniger were pretty awesome, but they didn't appear routinely).  Then the audience gets to know them and trusts their judgment, and it adds interest and different points of view.  I don't think all the guest judges should be prior competitors. 

Finally, fourth, let's give Gail a break, for heaven's sake.  I don't think the dressers are doing her any favors but goodness, the woman gets paid to opine on food!  My weight's been going up and down for 40 years, so I have nothing on Gail.  Padma even cited the skyrocketing weight gain every season as one reason she quit.  I tried that cranberry cleanse Padma used to lose post-season weight gain, and no.

See you all next season - hoping for a tick up, you know?

[ZettaK]

On 6/22/2024 at 10:45 AM, Daisychain said:

There are so many thoughtful comments here that resonated with me.  

First, the edit.  I am on Twitter solely to read, and I have never posted.  It appears to me that Tom quote tweets (I am really not sure whether I'm getting that right) another poster criticizing the edit and then says the judges and he have no control about the edit.  You cannot tell where the original poster posted that tweet to which Tom responded, so it seems a bit lame. I felt the edit bordered on cunning or dishonest, and it's not just because my daughter and SIL live in Wisconsin.  It was a bit of a bait-and-switch for me; did not enjoy.  Not all will agree.

Second, Kristen - I think she has a lot of talent.  She did a season of Iron Chef (something) with Alton Brown in which they were absolutely charming together.  I'd give her a season or 2 to grow into the role and I don't think there will be a problem.  If you think of poor Katie Lee almost having an anxiety attack on Season 1 and Padma having the horror show of Season 2 as her first appearance.  

Third, I do think it would behoove the show to go out and get a few strong, recurring guest star judges that come off and on from time to time, like Bourdain, Eric Ripert, Emeril, and Wolfgang Puck used to do.  Would be nice to have some women chefs in that lineup (Mary Sue Milliken and Susan Feniger were pretty awesome, but they didn't appear routinely).  Then the audience gets to know them and trusts their judgment, and it adds interest and different points of view.  I don't think all the guest judges should be prior competitors. 

Finally, fourth, let's give Gail a break, for heaven's sake.  I don't think the dressers are doing her any favors but goodness, the woman gets paid to opine on food!  My weight's been going up and down for 40 years, so I have nothing on Gail.  Padma even cited the skyrocketing weight gain every season as one reason she quit.  I tried that cranberry cleanse Padma used to lose post-season weight gain, and no.

See you all next season - hoping for a tick up, you know?

I agree with everything. 

The editing was dishonest. Yes, that's the proper word. The producers wanted to create drama that didn't exist, but that's beyond normal editing.

I like Kristen, but she can improve in the future. 

More well known guest judges should start appearing again. Former contestants are good at public relations, especially recently, and they remain in contact with the show producers, and presenters/judges, that's why we see some of them so often. There are too many to mention. For example Kristen is the host now.

As for the chefs, it was a weak season, and even the judges agreed with it. 

[Suzn]

I'm pretty late to the party.  I am disappointed that Dan didn't win and the edit certainly looked as though he won.  They seemed to have enough criticism of Danny's dishes compared to Dan, something just didn't seem right.

I thought Kristen was great and I didn't miss Padma at all.  Kristen was fresh and lively.  I don't know that she did anything wrong, but she will get even better.

[bravofan27]

On 6/22/2024 at 10:45 AM, Daisychain said:

 

Finally, fourth, let's give Gail a break, for heaven's sake.  I don't think the dressers are doing her any favors but goodness, the woman gets paid to opine on food!  

See you all next season - hoping for a tick up, you know?

100%. These "judges" get paid to criticize amazing crafted and intentional dishes they didn't have to prepare, under pressure they don't have to face, and then they get to dine comfortably, wearing pretty clothes, well-groomed with esteemed guests while they criticize the peasants chefs and their work. While  eating amazing food and drinking great wine and being served and asses kissed. Kind of an asshole model really.

You have one of the best chefs in the country carefully cultivating an amazing menu for you-- using ingredients that you didn't have to buy, preparing a menu you aren't paying for, and you going to act like this 50-dollar scallop that most people can't afford to ever order is beneath you? PLEASE. The entitlement is real with Tom at times. 

[Daisychain]

So I was quoted above with bolding, so I guess I'll respond.  I hope I am misunderstanding some of the above but I'm worried that I haven't. @bravofan27, my only comment about Gail was that there had been some criticism about weight gain, and I don't think that is called for.  

The rest of the commentary about the show being about hard working, up-and-coming chefs v. [experienced/snobby] judges . . . what am I missing?  I've watched the show since awful Season 1 and it is literally about new young talent coming up and being judged by more skilled, experienced, or famous chefs.  That is the actual show. If I misunderstood you please just let me know, no problem.

 

[jabRI]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:23 AM, violet and green said:

I swear Danny said to Manny in the car on the way to the shops that his first course was an aguachile. I shouted at the screen, not another aguachile!

I heard that too.  And if 2 years pass and I never hear about aguachile again, I will be a happy camper.