S02.E01: A Son For A Son

[Uncle JUICE]

21 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

But since the other side is just as laughably inept the insane idea of hiring some rando rat catcher to murder a prince worked. The wannabe assassins passing through the throne room really highlighted how grotesquely silly the whole thing was. Why was the king drinking on his extremely unergonomic throne anyway?

Needing to ask which one was the boy and letting the queen slip away so easily added another note of bad comedy to the whole thing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in season 1 a single dragon sufficed to break a naval blockade. Now somehow King's Landing is about to be blockaded, even though ships are extremely vulnerable to dragons (and naval blockades didn't work particularly well with pre-modern ships but let's not digress).

Do dragons eat more in wartime? Don't they have feeding arrangements well established for a long time now? How much can a few dragons eat anyway, surely not every tenth goat, sheep and whatever in the whole of the Crown Lands? :)

THey need more food because they're being asked to do a lot more than just fly around and intimidate, they are going to be exerting themselves, that's how I read the food bit. As far as the Stepstones were concerned (your naval blockade point), I don't think that's how it went. In fact they had one dragon and the Valyrion fleet and Crabfeeder held the stepstones for a period measured in YEARS. I don't know how (sure seems like "BARBECUE EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME" would be a strong tactic, but I'm not master of arms or anything), but they also run a high risk of losing dragons to the Black side. The dragon math is in Black's favor: Cyrax, Ceraxes, Melys, Seasmoke, Vermax plus they have Silverwing and Vermithor in the Dragonmount, to Vaghar, Sunfyre and Helena's, by my count.

I thought the king drinking on his throne was a good touch poorly placed: he's arrogant and insouciant, he sees the throne as some (unearned) acheivement to show off. WHy his kingsgarud is just letting randos walk around in the throne room is strange though. 

As far as blood and cheese go, I'm sure they told you

Spoiler

it's different in the book. Check into it, it makes way more sense to me. How they did it on the show is so much less harrowing, believe it or not. 

 

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yeah, seriously, this line made no sense whatsoever.

"At the age of eight and ten" means they were 18. They're twins, so they're the same age.

Poor Helaena, and poor baby Jaeherys. Just awful.

[paigow]

The murder plan was just like John Wick - forgotten tunnels enable security breach.

[go4luca]

23 hours ago, aghst said:

It's one thing for the kids who are young but Damon is middle aged now?

Maybe Daemon has a Dorian Gray type portriat hiidden in the attic?

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but in season 1 a single dragon sufficed to break a naval blockade. Now somehow King's Landing is about to be blockaded, even though ships are extremely vulnerable to dragons (and naval blockades didn't work particularly well with pre-modern ships but let's not digress).

Do dragons eat more in wartime? Don't they have feeding arrangements well established for a long time now? How much can a few dragons eat anyway, surely not every tenth goat, sheep and whatever in the whole of the Crown Lands? :)

Someone else pointed out that despite having multiple dragons at their disposal, the War of the Stepstones went for quite some time. Which may be more bad writing, or may reflect that as powerful as dragons may be, you can't just deploy them any and everywhere and expect them to work. 

That said: 

There are both political and logistical considerations to trying to break or run a blockade. Even if you wanted to try your hand at trying to slip past or outfight the Velaryon navy, supposedly the biggest and the best at the time, do you want to risk a) the possibility that one of the Black dragons might be nearby b) they may later send one of the Black dragons to punish you c) the Blacks might prevail and punish you for having defied their blockade?

On Team Green, yes, you could send a dragon to try to break through the ships making up the blockade. But that could be exactly what Team Black is expecting you to do, and there could be 3 dragons waiting to strike if you do. 

My understanding is that there has not been much in the way of dragon vs. dragon combat till now. It seems best not to risk it if it can at all be avoided.

Someone else addressed that Team Green would be expecting its dragons to be putting in more work and therefore they would need more food and therefore the tax is needed.

There's also the aspect that Team Green may want to take the livestock gotten through the tithe, and sell some of it to raise money for other parts of the war effort. I wouldn't put it past Evil Otto for him to have other rationales like that.

[go4luca]

Can some remind me if anyone claimed Vermithor (season 1)?  I remenber Daemon singing almost like a lullaby to him.  Just can't remember if he's been claimed and therefore another possible dragon at their disposal.  Or can Daemon claim two dragons?

 

[CeeBeeGee]

3 minutes ago, go4luca said:

Or can Daemon claim two dragons?

Daenerys did.

[go4luca]

2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Daenerys did.

Did she?

But I'm still curious as to Vermithor.

Edited June 18 by go4luca
Edited

[Lady S.]

5 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I think Daemon may make Aemond more personal going forward, but I'm not sure he put that much value in killing Aemond himself in this episode. I think he would have been perfectly fine with Blood and Cheese killing him and explicitly told them to do it, only seeming to give alternate instructions if they couldn't find Aemond. I don't think Daemon currently thinks much about Aemond himself, only Vhagar. 

Yeah, dude didn't even stick around for Luke's funeral, so I doubt true revenge for his stepson/nephew was really his top goal. On rewatch, he never said "a son for a son" to his henchmen, only to Rhaenys, yet they were clearly quoting him in the castle. So yeah, I think he gave an answer to what if they couldn't find Aemond. Why wouldn't he?

 

8 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

LOL, wow, that makes so much more sense. Damn you marijuana! Why would twins be TWO YEARS APRART IN AGE?!? But seriously guy just say 18. I wish the show would have done me a favor here and had someone respond "Wait, which one of you was eight and which one was ten?" and then A/Eric would have clarified and the person said "You mean you were 18? Why not just say that?" 

Trying to think if I've heard them use a 'teen' number over all those episodes now. 

That one got me too, at first, until I reminded myself that a) they are twins, Daemon just said so and b) Jaime Lannister was said to be the youngest knight ever named to the Kingsguard but he was a teenager when that happened. (The Night's Watch seems to be the one to accept recruits of all ages. The KG, with their more limited numbers, have reason to be more discerning.) Ryan Condal seems more attached to these old-fashioned terms GRRM would sometimes sprinkle in, and I do find that annoying. It didn't help that the captions said 8 and 10 rather than eight-and-ten.

 

4 hours ago, magdalene said:

Yes, There were a couple of times last season where I thought they are doing it.

I did wonder since they included that clip of them in 1.09 in the previouslies. I think the earliest it could have started was sometime after Rhaenyra left court, once Viserys was rotting away bound in his bed with no more need of conjugal relations or reason/ability to care what his wife did without him. Alicent was the de facto ruler at that time and so had less reason to fear anyone reporting on her to the king, much less Rhaenyra on Dragonstone. Is it really cheating when your husband is almost a corpse already? Just drink the Plan Tea and flagellate in a sept after every sin of lust.

I don't really want to re-litigate Rhaenyra/Criston but this further proves to me his grievance with her was not about workplace sexual harassment. If he had any self-preservation instinct, he would not have confessed at first opportunity after Rhaenyra rejected his proposal and asked to be executed. Honor was the concern for him, both his and Rhaenyra's, and shame the emotion bothering him, not fear. Maybe he tells himself he's already damaged goods thanks to Rhaenyra, so might as well service a more deserving royal whom he must feel he owes his very life to. At least she can suitably share in his shame after orgasm, and he's not quite the sidepiece he would've been had he continued an affair with Rhaenyra. Alicent's husband was out of the picture before he actually died and she's not gonna go marry a gay guy. 

Interesting to note the positioning in both AliCole sex scenes. The first he's literally on his knees servicing her, the second he's just lying there to be ridden. After the oral sex, she might as well have shaken his hand for a job well done for how businesslike they acted. However much he may revere his Queen, it feels like she's using him for pleasure just as much, if not more, than Rhaenyra did. (In that sex scene, he and 'Nyra both smiled. And his came when she wasn't looking at him, so not just for her benefit like Ali's forced smile when Viserys breifly glanced at her during sex.)

Interesting too, his words about Rhaenyra, to Aemond. Whatever he may have had heard of Rhaenicent from guarding both parties, he only joined the KG at the end of that relationship, and a "cunning spider" who "intoxicated" her partner is not the way to describe a childhood frienship between two kids which probably started when they were little. He's projecting his own relationship with Rhaenyra there, because he was "intoxicated" by her until she rejected his attempt to save their honor with a love marriage, and his feelings of love turned to bitter hate. For Alicent, I can't help but relate this to her obsession and jealousy of Rhaenyra when she's fucking him in the same bedroom where Rhaenyra lost her virginity to him. They both first saw him at that tourney and gushed over him together, but then Rhaenyra was the one who got to enjoy him illicitly while Ali was being used by a living corpse, and that just wasn't fair. Being queen to her ex-bff's dad wasn't worth it but she can at least get temporary pleasure from Rhaenyra's leftovers.

All this with the caveat that I found AliCole more interesting in their mutual repression and self-righteousness. I'm more into her freaky dynamic with Larys than this Lancelot shit. And I think Larys definitely knows what she's doing since he handpicked her new servants, which likely means they're just reporting to him instead of Mysaria. So long as he can still coerce her into letting him jerk off in front of her, Crissy is no threat to him.

Edited June 18 by Lady S.

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Yeah, dude didn't even stick around for Luke's funeral, so I doubt true revenge for his stepson/nephew was really his top goal. On rewatch, he never said "a son for a son" to his henchmen, only to Rhaenys, yet they were clearly quoting him in the castle. So yeah, I think he gave an answer to what if they couldn't find Aemond. Why wouldn't he?

Plus technically, the child they killed was a son. Just not Alicent's. Someone described this whole thing as a war of escalating blunders, that seems apt. 

[Lady S.]

21 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Daenerys did.

She only rode one of them, but she was mother of all 3 dragons. Daemon hasn't birthed any, they're all still relying on natural hatchings here, so I don't think it's quite the same.

[baldryanr]

21 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Yeah, dude didn't even stick around for Luke's funeral, so I doubt true revenge for his stepson/nephew was really his top goal.

In an alternate world where Rhaenys roasted Team Green when she had the chance, I wonder how Daemon would have handled three Strong bastards being above his own trueborn (and 100% Targ) children in the succession.  Regardless, after what happened they had better assign all the kids full time bodyguards. 

[Uncle JUICE]

Can someone please explain how Cole is going to remain employed? You let the heir to the crown be murdered. In front of the queen. In her residence. Is the answer lingus? Has to be, right? Dudes gotta have some serious tongue game. 

[magdalene]

7 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Can someone please explain how Cole is going to remain employed? You let the heir to the crown be murdered. In front of the queen. In her residence. Is the answer lingus? Has to be, right? Dudes gotta have some serious tongue game. 

He should have been un-employed and dead quite frankly since he beat Joffrey to death in the first season.  

A lot of these characters have plot armour, which they will have until it's time for them to die. They are all doomed - eventually.

Anybody else wanted Blood and Cheese dead from the moment one of them kicked the poor dog? And they hadn't even killed the child yet.

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, aghst said:

Also Damon secured additional eggs in season 1.

Pretty sure the idea is to deploy those once hatched and the dragons are grown.

They showed clips of the eggs.  I don't recall if that's from season 1 or it's meant to be coming this season clips.

Presumably only team Black has additional dragon eggs?

Because if Team Green had eggs, Amond probably wouldn't have stolen Vhagar.  Or maybe he still would have stolen her.

 

 

Any dragons hatched from those eggs will take years to grow big enough to fight, so I don't see them being a factor in the war unless it lasts decades.

Oh, and Aemond did not steal Vhagar.  Her rider was dead so she was free to be claimed by anyone bold enough to try.

20 hours ago, Lady S. said:

Don't know why they didn't have the actor use his real hair in s1 since it only makes him look more like Harwin too.

The actor cut his hair very short before they began filming season one and that wasn't what the showrunners wanted.  So he got a wig instead.

19 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I was calling for Justice for Luke in general. I was not co-signing the death of poor Prince Jaehaerys. Having read "Fire & Blood", I was grateful that Blood & Cheese wasn't shown getting especially graphic with the "assignment"...

Sorry for the misinterpretation.  I made an assumption based on crap I've heard other places.  I apologize.

 

19 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I would think that the "beast beneath the boards" prediction would trigger something in someone who had heard it after it came true, though...same with the Aemond one....

No one heard the Aemond one, though, except the audience.  The other people in the room weren't paying attention to Helaena.

10 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Wasn't he posted there because Rhaenyra was the heir to the throne at the time, and Viserys was extremely protective of her? Not that the Queen isn't important, but at the point we're at in the story, it's not like her death would throw the realm into chaos, as would the death of the next in line.

Except that Aegon's heir was also in that room, so there really should've been guards.  I'd chalk it up to Aegon being an idiot, but Otto is not so you think he'd have been more on the ball here.

 

[go4luca]

2 hours ago, Lady S. said:

She only rode one of them, but she was mother of all 3 dragons. Daemon hasn't birthed any, they're all still relying on natural hatchings here, so I don't think it's quite the same.

Thanks.  I just edited my response ro @Lady S. above. Thought I was losing it.

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, baldryanr said:

In an alternate world where Rhaenys roasted Team Green when she had the chance, I wonder how Daemon would have handled three Strong bastards being above his own trueborn (and 100% Targ) children in the succession.  Regardless, after what happened they had better assign all the kids full time bodyguards. 

I don't think even Daemon is dumb enough to off all 3 of Rhaenyra's other kids while married to her, and with age and recklessness he's unlikely to outlive her. I've always thought he was more interested in proximity to the throne than claiming it, just wanting to be the monarch's attack dog with a loose-enough leash. He's cruel enough, but no Tywin Lannister fixated on legacy and not much of a long-term planner period. Besides, with Baela meant to be Jace's Queen, his bloodline would end up on the throne through their kids anyway. I don't think a female-line grandson instead of one of his sons would be a major concern. If Rhaenyra had died in childbirth in 1.10, though, with Jace trying to be king right away, and if he and Daemon got into conflict then who knows... I just don't think that male bloodline would be his concern with a clean succession. 

It did occur to me when he talked to Rhaenys that he was wrong about wiping out Aegon's bloodline since his kids weren't at the coronation. I get the point that a toddler is no threat on his own with no TG adult around to use his claim, just interesting that the one prince in the capital safe from Rhaenys that day was the one who ended up killed by Daemon's thugs.

42 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Anybody else wanted Blood and Cheese dead from the moment one of them kicked the poor dog? And they hadn't even killed the child yet.

They really included that dog for a literal kick the dog moment to let you know these were bad guys even before they beheaded a little boy. The ratcatcher was clearly not the sharpest tool, so I guess he just brought his rat terrier because he was used to bringing him for actual rat-catching. But from a production standpoint, there was no reason he had to have a dog at all except for that moment.

[ChicksDigScars]

18 hours ago, steph369 said:

I’ll say. I like animals too, but we just saw (heard) an innocent child’s head being butchered off!

Well, in my own defense, I wasn't hearing the background noises until someone pointed them out here. 

[proserpina65]

43 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

The ratcatcher was clearly not the sharpest tool, so I guess he just brought his rat terrier because he was used to bringing him for actual rat-catching. But from a production standpoint, there was no reason he had to have a dog at all except for that moment.

Upon rewatch, I decided part of why he brought the dog is that it wasn't safe to leave it in the street where Daemon found him.

[ChicksDigScars]

I figured that the dog was there as part of the ruse. Terriers were used as rat catchers (my parents had a Wheaten Terrier. They were originally bred to flush out rodents. You should have seen Ollie when there was a rogue mouse trapped under the dishwasher). The nurse maid saw him, but thought he was there doing his job. The dog was part of his cover. But I had a bad feeling going in. "Don't fucking kill the dog." Yes, once again, I cared more about the dog than the kid. Shrug. Apologies.

Edited June 19 by ChicksDigScars

[AntFTW]

21 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Upon rewatch, I decided part of why he brought the dog is that it wasn't safe to leave it in the street where Daemon found him.

My thinking was that the ratcatcher didn't actually intend to go upstairs to the living quarters so he brought along his rat-catching dog to look the part.

Once he had to go upstairs to the living quarters, the dog became kind of useless a liability. The dog likely would have slowed them down since they had to make a quick escape after their task was done, however possible that was.

Also, the ratcatcher seemingly didn't plan on going upstairs to the living quarters, but he surely took the job seriously after he went up there.

Edited June 19 by AntFTW

[KBrownie]

4 hours ago, baldryanr said:

In an alternate world where Rhaenys roasted Team Green when she had the chance, I wonder how Daemon would have handled three Strong bastards being above his own trueborn (and 100% Targ) children in the succession.  Regardless, after what happened they had better assign all the kids full time bodyguards. 

Daemon would never consider Rhaenyra’s sons to be bastards.  Not once.  He’s shown multiple times that he views them as completely legitimate. In episode 8 when he and Rhaenyra first visited the king the very first thing he did was urge Viserys to confirm Luke as heir to Driftmark. He was toasting his stepsons/nephews along with their mother at that dinner, he stood on their side during the big fight on Driftmark and at that same dinner. He threatened the Kingsguard in episode 10 with his dragon to confirm their loyalty to Rhaenyra AND “Prince Jacerys” as her heir.  

They are Rhaenyra’s children. They are Targaryens and that’s all that matters to him. He’s not shown any inkling of his sons being above Jace, Luke, or Joffrey. I don’t think he ever would unless if, which would be the natural assumption, all three of the oldest boys were all dead.  
 

But, yeah, all those children need bodyguards. I’m sure, unlike the Greens, Daemon and Rhaenyra aren’t arrogant enough to think their kids can be left completely unattended. He knows they ALL are targets. They aren’t stupid enough to believe any promises of their safety from the Greens. The Hightowers have more than proven they have no honor and aren’t trustworthy. Daemon and Rhaenyra’s two youngest are probably especially vulnerable as they have more Targaryen blood than anyone and the usurpers wouldn’t want that used against them. The Greens seem to think that Rhaenyra isn’t a real threat and Vhagar can save them from anything. That Alicent can write her stupid letters after all that has gone down and Rhaenyra will just give in. 
 

I want to see what the usurper and his hypocrite mother are going to do now. They are in the exact same situation that they worked so hard and long to prevent.  Oldest child is a girl. Only child. Will they name her heir? I guess HIS decision to name the girl heir will be expected to be upheld but that somehow wasn’t true for Viserys. Meanwhile Rhaenyra has nothing but male heirs. 
 

All of the greens are nothing but nasty hypocrites. Alicent most of all. 
 

 

Edited June 19 by KBrownie

[aghst]

A blockade is considered an act of war.  Especially of the ships shot at transport ships trying to get through.

Imagine if a foreign power tried to prevent ships from entering and leaving NY harbor -- a blockade of the entire East Coast, let alone all of the coastal areas of the continental US would be impossible.

US Navy and Air Force will clear out those ships, either give them a chance to leave or be sunk.

So Team Green would be within their rights to attack the Velaryons, though that would involve killing the noble members of that family as well.

But they could be causing deaths on Team Green if the blockade was protracted.

[magdalene]

On rewatch:

Aegon picks his finger nails the way young Alicent did.

Why was there not a single kings guard on the stairs when Heleana escaped with her daughter?  Crispy was banging Alicent and the others were with Drunk!Aegon.

The incompetence is staggering.

I know Daemon doesn't care that a little boy died instead of Aemond.  A son for a son after all. He may care a little once Rhaenyra is furious at him.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

I know Daemon doesn't care that a little boy died instead of Aemond. 

Daemon knows that this game does not allow for prisoners anyway... 

[The Hound Lives]

I can’t be the only one who doesn’t find anyone intriguing. Emma’s Rhaenyra is a bit of a treat but I do still miss that smirking, somewhat cocky young woman we had early season 1. It’s not about Molly vs. Emma because both are outstanding, but the personality. I want to cheer for Rhae and I understand she is in mourning, the character just lacks any “character” for me. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

Cole and Alicent have zero chemistry. I never felt an ounce of tension simmering. Can we get at least a little build up? Like the Larys foot jerkoff last season, can we get a glimpse of how this shit even developed? I know the build up for the war comes first, character development apparently second but this show needs some wit and intrigue. 
Blood and Cheese should’ve had the slow burn tension, similar to the red wedding. Instead it was just another thing that happened. Horrifying? Yes. But pull you in/don’t let go/talk about it for days? Nah. The tongues fandom wide are wagging about Cole and Alicent, when that should’ve been the “and then this happened”. 
Not a total wash but I’m not sad about the huge delays between seasons. It falls off the radar too quickly. 

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

A blockade is considered an act of war.

So is usurping the throne.

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Imagine if a foreign power tried to prevent ships from entering and leaving NY harbor -- a blockade of the entire East Coast, let alone all of the coastal areas of the continental US would be impossible.

US Navy and Air Force will clear out those ships, either give them a chance to leave or be sunk.

So Team Green would be within their rights to attack the Velaryons, though that would involve killing the noble members of that family as well.

Would we be at war with this foreign power?

Apples and oranges... because the Greens usurped the throne. They are already at war, and that was established before the blockade. The area is being patrol by the Blacks and their dragons. It's pretty much already established that if the Greens try to break the blockade, they will be attacked.

If the Greens are within their right to attack the Velaryons for the blockade, the Blacks are within their right to establish a blockade for declaring war in the first place by usurping the throne.

[Roccos Brother]

Thank you writers/director for choosing to show the slaying of a child entirely off-screen. Given the show's inclination to shock I wasn't sure if they would.

I was glad to see the return of the white worm. I had hoped she would have a bigger part as characters who play the underhanded machinations and stealth game tend to be the most intriguing to me.

Edited June 19 by Roccos Brother

[Oscirus]

9 hours ago, baldryanr said:

In an alternate world where Rhaenys roasted Team Green when she had the chance, I wonder how Daemon would have handled three Strong bastards being above his own trueborn (and 100% Targ) children in the succession.  Regardless, after what happened they had better assign all the kids full time bodyguards. 

It's intriguing to imagine how he would've reacted. Perhaps, he would've been fine with it, considering one of his kids was to be the queen, and the other was to be the queen of Drift mark. Or maybe, he would've seen it as a challenge, a chance to prove his children's worth and secure their place in the succession. I imagine it would be the former.

 

On another note, this war should be over super quick. Team Black has the dragon advantage; they own the seas, and all Team Green really has is Vagar, Aemond, and Cole. I'm not sure how Team Black can mess this up.

[ChicksDigScars]

7 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

Thank you writers/director for choosing to show the slaying of a child entirely off-screen. Given the show's inclination to shock I wasn't sure if they would.

 

That was another reason why I did not immediately jump on the GoT bandwagon when everyone else did. One night I fell asleep on the couch watching HBO and GoT came on. I was awakened to the sounds of a child screaming for her parents while she was being burned alive. Horrifying when you're half asleep.  I was like, yeah....no.  I eventually tried to watch. But then they killed a dog right at the jump. So, I didn't watch until the last season. I have it in my MAX queue, so maybe eventually. I did know enough where picking up HoD wasn't too difficult. I was able to fill in the blanks reading comments here, actually. 

Was it here that someone mention that these episodes were done during the writer's strike, so holes in the story are going to happen, since they had to go with early drafts of the scripts?

 

[bluvelvet]

I find it interesting that team Green is relying so much on Vhagar. Vhagar is old and probably slow and clunky. I’m sure she just wants to chill somewhere in her retirement not deal with all this bullshit. Ole girl has been through enough war. 

Vhagar can be out maneuvered by a younger more agile dragon who just needs to strike at the right time. Poor Lucerys and Arrax, they were scared but had Arrax just stayed low in those rock formations they probably would’ve been ok. 
 

I am also wondering how can she fly with all those holes in her wings ??

Edited June 19 by bluvelvet

[paigow]

49 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I am also wondering how can she fly with all those holes in her wings ??

 

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I was awakened to the sounds of a child screaming for her parents while she was being burned alive. Horrifying wh

Oh gosh yes! That was the worst moment in that show for me. Not the Red Wedding. Not what happened to Ned Stark. I can't understand to this day why the character who killed that poor sweet girl has so many fervent fan boys. It's so disgusting.

Casting is a genius for hiring Emma and Matt. Emma is such  a wonderful emotional actor I want to root for her character.  And Matt Smith is Matt Smith and making me care about a toxic asshole who really does not care if he burns the whole world down. Without those two I would be solely team small folk.

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, KBrownie said:

I want to see what the usurper and his hypocrite mother are going to do now. They are in the exact same situation that they worked so hard and long to prevent.  Oldest child is a girl. Only child. Will they name her heir?

Aegon and Helaena are still quite young, they can have more children. 

12 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I want to cheer for Rhae and I understand she is in mourning, the character just lacks any “character” for me. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

Yeah, I have to say I find the actress lacking in charisma.

11 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

I was glad to see the return of the white worm.

I wasn't. I have zero interest in this character.

4 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Was it here that someone mention that these episodes were done during the writer's strike, so holes in the story are going to happen, since they had to go with early drafts of the scripts?

That was just speculation from somebody who found the episode lacking. Personally I thought it was a very strong episode, so to each his own. 

[baldryanr]

10 hours ago, Oscirus said:

On another note, this war should be over super quick. Team Black has the dragon advantage; they own the seas, and all Team Green really has is Vagar, Aemond, and Cole. I'm not sure how Team Black can mess this up.

Dany had three dragons, the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Dorne.  Plus she had whatever Olenna and Yara could bring, and she suffered a bunch of Ls.  I have no doubt Team Black will find a way to not win quickly.

[KBrownie]

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Aegon and Helaena are still quite young, they can have more children

Not really the point, but sure, they can have more kids. What happens if they are girls though?

I don't think Helaena is going to be too eager to try and conceive more kids, but that won’t stop a rapist like Aegon though.  Maybe he can go find one of his male children from the fighting pits to be his new heir. 

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

Dany had three dragons, the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Dorne.  Plus she had whatever Olenna and Yara could bring, and she suffered a bunch of Ls.  I have no doubt Team Black will find a way to not win quickly.

She also had a hand who was giving her bad advice in a futile attempt to save his family, which nullified the dragons and Dothraki.  She also had to deal with a white walker outbreak and horrendous writing.  I get that in order for the show to be a thing, something has to happen to make the war a legit struggle, but at the moment, team black has all the advantages.  It'll be interesting to see how they fuck it up. 

[go4luca]

17 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I can’t be the only one who doesn’t find anyone intriguing. Emma’s Rhaenyra is a bit of a treat but I do still miss that smirking, somewhat cocky young woman we had early season 1. It’s not about Molly vs. Emma because both are outstanding, but the personality. I want to cheer for Rhae and I understand she is in mourning, the character just lacks any “character” for me.

I must be watching a different show.  Emma spoke volumes while uttering only one line during the entire episode.  I loved her performance.

Was Milly spunky & fun in her rebellious youth?  Of course but her world changed and she had to grow up and deal with all that life threw at her.

Edited June 19 by go4luca

[Lady S.]

So Tyland Lannister started the long tradition of Lannisters beefing with/being humiliated by kids, or else maybe it was always a Lannister trait even before him. In GoT's time there was Jaime failing to kill Bran and being defeated by teenage Robb, Cersei vs. Sansa, Tyrion vs. Joffrey, Tywin being backtalked by Joff and humilated by teen Robb's victories until he had to organize a wedding massacre to kill him, and Lancel getting stabbed by one of Qyburn's kiddie minions right before the sept explosion. Tyland se truggling with a 4yo and almost being forced to let the kid use him as a pony really takes the cake, though.

Btw, I went ahead and updated the Character Guide but the mods will have to replace the old one, because I've lost the ability to edit old posts and am not even sure who's in charge here anymore.

[meep.meep]

On 6/17/2024 at 6:33 PM, Lady S. said:

Fun fact #2: Tom Taylor, who played Cregan, started out as l'il Uhtred in the pilot of The Last Kingdom. Between him, Ewan Mitchell (Osferth/Aemond), and Phia Saban (Aelfwynn/Helaena), that's 3 actors migrating from TLK to Hot D.

That's hilarious because watching this we were noticing how he carries his sword Uhtred-style on his back.  Just needs that big orange stone, the mohawk, and some studded black leather shirts to achieve full-Uhtred

[paigow]

5 hours ago, magdalene said:

I can't understand to this day why the character who killed that poor sweet girl has so many fervent fan boys. It's so disgusting.

That was a team effort of Stannis + Red Witch.... The Red Witch re-animated Jon Snow so she was not completely evil...

[Lady S.]

9 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Was it here that someone mention that these episodes were done during the writer's strike, so holes in the story are going to happen, since they had to go with early drafts of the scripts?

They definitely filmed during the strike(s), but personally I don't care. It's been almost two years, I wouldn't want the hiatus to be any longer. It's not that the season wasn't already plotted, just that the writers couldn't make adjustments to scripts on-set as they normally would, because that would be scabbing. Besides, I think stuff like the lack of guards was always gonna be there, and the dialogue itself wasn't that much more awkward than in s1.

[aghst]

Are Tyland and Cregan suppose to be the head of their respective houses and they look around 30-35 at most?

 

[baldryanr]

35 minutes ago, aghst said:

Are Tyland and Cregan suppose to be the head of their respective houses and they look around 30-35 at most?

Tyland's twin brother Jason (the one who kept hitting on Rhaenyra during the royal hunt episode) is the head of House Lannister.

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:26 PM, baldryanr said:

In an alternate world where Rhaenys roasted Team Green when she had the chance, I wonder how Daemon would have handled three Strong bastards being above his own trueborn (and 100% Targ) children in the succession.  Regardless, after what happened they had better assign all the kids full time bodyguards. 

The only one of Rhaenyra's children that would have been a slight concern would have been little Joffrey.  Jace and Luke was to marry his daughters; Luke and Rhaena was to rule Driftmark. There's only Joffrey before Aegon the Younger and Viserys II. Daemon wouldn't have had any reason to beef about succession as King consort.  He really just wants to be behind the throne doing wild shyt with Caraxes.

[go4luca]

2 hours ago, Lady S. said:

They definitely filmed during the strike(s), but personally I don't care. It's been almost two years, I wouldn't want the hiatus to be any longer. It's not that the season wasn't already plotted, just that the writers couldn't make adjustments to scripts on-set as they normally would, because that would be scabbing. 

One reason is all the scripts were done prior to filming.   Although Ryan Condal was on set, he was strictly in a non-writing capacity: no editing, no network notes, no writing.

[ICantDoThatDave]

9 hours ago, magdalene said:

I can't understand to this day why the character who killed that poor sweet girl has so many fervent fan boys. It's so disgusting.

Are there any* fans of Stannis or Melisandre?  I have not encountered them, fwiw.

* meaning after that event, so present day - I grant they had fans before that

8 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Dany had three dragons, the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Dorne.  Plus she had whatever Olenna and Yara could bring, and she suffered a bunch of Ls.  I have no doubt Team Black will find a way to not win quickly.

Well, to be fair to Dany, she also had terrible writers crafting her story at that point.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 6/18/2024 at 8:59 PM, KBrownie said:

All of the greens are nothing but nasty hypocrites. Alicent most of all. 

The main thing that enrages me about all of this is that--the entire situation was created by OTTO. Otto was the one who urged Viserys to name Rhaenyra as heir, because he didn't think Daemon should've been heir. Otto was the one who pushed pimped Alicent to Viserys. Otto was the one who pushed Aegon as New heir. Otto who continually undermined R's position as Heir.

And worst of all--Otto who continually warned Alicent that Team Black will murder your children. Only because you said so! Had you used your position as Hand and helped Westeros accept the idea of a female heir, there never would've been any tension. Or at least a lot less tension.

Team Green--every accusation is a confession.

 

12 hours ago, KBrownie said:

I don't think Helaena is going to be too eager to try and conceive more kids, but that won’t stop a rapist like Aegon though.  Maybe he can go find one of his male children from the fighting pits to be his new heir. 

Can someone explain to me Aegon's glowup? Last season he was raping servant girls and fathering bastards in the fighting pit, now he's all "The queen is an endless mystery" bonhomie and encouraging Jaehaerys's antics at the Small Council and the Behind the Scenes commentary thinks it's cute.

[iMonrey]

20 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I get that in order for the show to be a thing, something has to happen to make the war a legit struggle, but at the moment, team black has all the advantages. 

I don't think having more dragons means it's a slam dunk for Team Black. Aside from Luke's baby dragon getting chomped by Vhagar, we've seen very little dragon-on-dragon combat, so we don't know how something like that will play out if they have to go toe to toe. Daemon wanted to go straight to Kings Landing with Caraxes and Meleys to take out Vhagar - I would have been very interested to see how that would have played out. Vhagar might have killed them both.

[magdalene]

10 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Can someone explain to me Aegon's glowup? Last season he was raping servant girls and fathering bastards in the fighting pit, now he's all "The queen is an endless mystery" bonhomie and encouraging Jaehaerys's antics at the Small Council and the Behind the Scenes commentary thinks it's cute.

I will try. One.  PTB have fallen for Tom Glynn Carney - with good reason I will admit and are writing to his strengths. Two. They needed to flesh the character out anyways because he is now a main character.