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S07.E13/S07.E14: Funeral/Memoir


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4 hours ago, Wanda said:

heldon protected himself with standing on the outside looking in, reading situations incorrectly and allowing his mother’s anger and his regrets to reframe his memories.

But writing his memoirs, with the distance of time added in, allowed his love for his father to break through the barriers that affected the stories we hear through TBBT.

Kind of weird that he made up a very specific lie about his dad's mistress trying to buy his love with an action figure, though.

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4 hours ago, possibilities said:

But I also think we didn't see him moving in. Nobody arrives on campus in a different state with just a briefcase. We saw him packing a lot of stuff to bring with him. The campus shot was not his moving in scene.

Nobody in real life does.  It's amazing how often that happens on TV.  I commented on that in a different thread.  It's one thing I really appreciated about the Rory going to Yale episode.  She's the only person I've seen on TV who needed a truck to get all her stuff to school as opposed to just a small suitcase.

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9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Kind of weird that he made up a very specific lie about his dad's mistress trying to buy his love with an action figure, though.

I have made my peace with the idea that the Cooper family we hear about on BBT is not the same Cooper family we see on Young Sheldon.  That said it's not, IMO, because Sheldon relayed things incorrectly - it's because the writers threw Sheldon from BBT under one helluva big bus so that they could tell the story the way they wanted to on Young Sheldon.  I don't blame them.  Well I do but I can understand why they did it.

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9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Kind of weird that he made up a very specific lie about his dad's mistress trying to buy his love with an action figure, though.

In his mind he thought he caught his dad with a blonde. That would be a “mistress” to him. So if some blonde woman gave him an action figure he might have simply made the connection 🤷‍♀️ it could even have been Brenda giving Sheldon a birthday present back when he and missy were suspicious of their relationship, and he hadn’t yet learned about the standard gift giving exchange (I can’t remember the phrase he would use on BBT)

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2 minutes ago, Wanda said:

In his mind he thought he caught his dad with a blonde. That would be a “mistress” to him. So if some blonde woman gave him an action figure he might have simply made the connection 🤷‍♀️ it could even have been Brenda giving Sheldon a birthday present back when he and missy were suspicious of their relationship, and he hadn’t yet learned about the standard gift giving exchange (I can’t remember the phrase he would use on BBT)

Taking my response to the Nitpicks thread

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12 minutes ago, Dimity said:

That said it's not, IMO, because Sheldon relayed things incorrectly - it's because the writers threw Sheldon from BBT under one helluva big bus so that they could tell the story the way they wanted to on Young Sheldon.

Lorre's vanity card from last week made me feel a little better because he stated that he regretted writing George's death so long ago.  It backed them into a corner when they started this show.  I was always okay that they didn't follow certain things from TBBT, but I knew that they couldn't avoid this. 

Also, the way Mary talked about George so badly in TBBT, well, she should've been past the anger at that point.  I'm just ignoring that happened and am happy that she & George were happy in this show (for the most part).  

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54 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I have made my peace with the idea that the Cooper family we hear about on BBT is not the same Cooper family we see on Young Sheldon.  That said it's not, IMO, because Sheldon relayed things incorrectly - it's because the writers threw Sheldon from BBT under one helluva big bus so that they could tell the story the way they wanted to on Young Sheldon.  I don't blame them.  Well I do but I can understand why they did it.

I view Young Sheldon as a completely different show. I wished they had just left the scene with Blonde Mary out, because it was just ridiculous.  1. Sheldon is not an idiot.  2. if he actually thought his father was cheating, he would not have not confronted him.  He had to go spend the night at Tam's to keep a secret.  i realized that was like 3 years earlier, but still.  Adult Sheldon isn't great at secrets either.  3. They replay TBBT for hours at a time on TBS.  We're not going to forget the action figure story.

What I really wish is that they had really leaned into the Black Hole episode.  Adult Sheldon could have still married Amy, met Leonard, had mostly the same life. But, George didn't die and didn't cheat and didn't force Sheldon to watch football, and all the things that he said on TBBT.  Because, yes, this show really did throw Sheldon under the bus, making him either a liar, or someone who couldn't remember anything anywhere near accurately to save his life (which is a strange trait for someone who claims to have an eidetic memory.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Kind of weird that he made up a very specific lie about his dad's mistress trying to buy his love with an action figure, though.

I feel like the cheating story is a retcon the audience is okay with (or at least I am, lol). Is it fully believable that Sheldon mistook wigged Mary as George's mistress, yet never questioned it? No, but by that point they'd redeemed George's character so much, they couldn't blow it all to pieces with an affair. 

Edited by BitterApple
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(edited)
1 hour ago, Wanda said:

(I can’t remember the phrase he would use on BBT)

"Tell him it's a non-optional social convention." (That was Howard's line to Penny to convince Sheldon to buy a gift for Leonard's surprise birthday party.) Sheldon's response, after previously delivering a whole diatribe about gift giving: "Oh. fair enough."

Edited by ams1001
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On 5/17/2024 at 3:22 PM, mammaM said:

But that's baby Ceecee's name. I know some people don't care, but I never liked cousins with the same name (even ones so far apart in age)😎

I could see Sheldon naming his daughter after his mother.  Maybe her name is something like Mary Constance or some other variation of Mary. 
 

Nobody wanting to sit in George’s spot at the dinner table made me smile. My grandmother has been gone for over 25 years and I still wouldn’t want to sit in that particular seat at the table. 
 

I was a little disappointed that we didn’t see Paige at the funeral. I know the actress is most likely busy, but she had such a significant role in both Sheldon and Missy’s lives that I would have liked to have seen her one last time. 
 

If we’re getting a sequel with Mandy and Georgie based in the 90s or early 2000s, I’m half expecting another show in a few years revolving around current age Cece with Jerry O’Connell as grown Georgie with cameos from Uncle Sheldon and Aunt Amy (maybe he can move back to Texas and take over the science department of the University since Drs Sturgis and Linkletter have been long retired). 

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Katy M said:

  3. They replay TBBT for hours at a time on TBS.  We're not going to forget the action figure story.

Thank you, this is exactly how I feel.  If they want us to forget all the many times George was referenced negatively on BBT then they need to knock it off with the eternal re-runs! 

 Anyway what bugged me wasn't that they retconned George it's that they still had elements of the stories Sheldon relayed that they could easily have ignored.  I mean if they  were never going to have Uncle Carl killed by a badger or have Sheldon get a stethoscope from an aunt on his 12th birthday why did they have to bother sticking  a blonde wig on Mary??????

Edited by Dimity
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14 minutes ago, Dimity said:

why did they have to bother sticking  a blonde wig on Mary??????

Because it was fun!

I'm usually a stickler for continuity, but I decided a while ago that I was fine with this show retconning stuff from BBT, because every time they did it, it made for a better show.

Usually lack of continuity is sloppy and confusing and makes a show worse. But in this case, I think the shows were separate enough and the changes were improvements and seemed thoughtful rather than lazy, so I decided to be okay with it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Because it was fun!

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. It nearly made me quit watching the show then and there.

The writers really couldn’t win when it came to handling George’s affair and death. Although I don’t really have any sympathy for the show runners because they had time to soften some of these things in TBBT’s final seasons and doubled down instead. 

3 hours ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I could see Sheldon naming his daughter after his mother.  Maybe her name is something like Mary Constance or some other variation of Mary. 

I think they’d be more likely to name her Marie after Marie Curie than any of his family members.

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(edited)
21 hours ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

... with cameos from Uncle Sheldon and Aunt Amy (maybe he can move back to Texas and take over the science department of the University since Drs Sturgis and Linkletter have been long retired). 

Sheldon would never ever come back and work at a second rate college.  He is a Noble Prize winner doing work at one of the most prestigious scientific universities in the world.  Amy as well. And his real family in a sense is his Big Bang Theory friends.

Besides this Georgie and Whats-Her-Name spinoff will likely kill off the franchise anyway.

Edited by Skooma
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On 5/16/2024 at 8:13 PM, Chit Chat said:

Maybe I'm the only one, but I really didn't like how this ended.  Missy is filled with rage (understandably so), but I wanted some closure for her.

I was a little disappointed in MIssy's story.  Her grieving was 100% authentic.  She didn't understand that people grieve differently, but no one really bothered to talk to her about it.

At the funeral, I loved it that when she was hurt by everyone laughing at Meemau's jokes, Georgie said something that helped a little, but she was still clearly upset and confused by Sheldon.

I just really wanted to see someone talk to her and help her to at least realize that Sheldon wasn't unaffected by their dad passing.

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16 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

She didn't understand that people grieve differently, but no one really bothered to talk to her about it.

She was pushing people away.  I'm hoping that Mary made an attempt, even though they didn't show it.

17 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

but she was still clearly upset and confused by Sheldon.

She's grown up with Sheldon, and by this time, she should have some inkling into how he processes things. Sheldon couldn't articulate that his thoughts about Star Trek were tied into his dad's death.  Missy has always been very snarky with Sheldon, but if she really tried to understand him, she could've asked him to explain how Star Trek had anything to do with their dad's death.   He's always related stories based on Star Trek or other SciFi shows.   They missed a good opportunity for Mary, Missy, Sheldon & Georgie to bond.  

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2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

If Amy and Sheldon’s daughter is going to be named after anybody, I can see Amy insist that Penny’s name be in there. After all they are besties! And in all seriousness, they did name their son after Leonard.

Given Amy's affinity for Little House, Laura could be a possibility. (And though it might take a long while, Amy would eventually coerce Sheldon into calling the kid Half Pint.)

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1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

She was pushing people away.  I'm hoping that Mary made an attempt, even though they didn't show it.

She's grown up with Sheldon, and by this time, she should have some inkling into how he processes things. Sheldon couldn't articulate that his thoughts about Star Trek were tied into his dad's death.  Missy has always been very snarky with Sheldon, but if she really tried to understand him, she could've asked him to explain how Star Trek had anything to do with their dad's death.   He's always related stories based on Star Trek or other SciFi shows.   They missed a good opportunity for Mary, Missy, Sheldon & Georgie to bond.  

I think logically, everything you said is correct.  Missy would realize that Sheldon was grieving in his own way, as she has seen many times.  But because Missy was grieving, she just couldn't see it.  She was so consumed with her own grief that she couldn't see it.

I was actually surprised when Mary told Missy to go to her room.  Under normal circumstances, sure.  But Missy's behavior was not extreme.  I thought Pastor Jeff could have said more.

In the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon asked Georgie to come to his wedding, Georgie mentioned that Georgie was the only one who was there for Missy after George died.  I thought it was a nice moment at the funeral when he put his arm around Missy and then when he said people were laughing because they loved him.  He really was there for Missy.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

She was pushing people away.  I'm hoping that Mary made an attempt, even though they didn't show it.

She's grown up with Sheldon, and by this time, she should have some inkling into how he processes things. Sheldon couldn't articulate that his thoughts about Star Trek were tied into his dad's death.  Missy has always been very snarky with Sheldon, but if she really tried to understand him, she could've asked him to explain how Star Trek had anything to do with their dad's death.   He's always related stories based on Star Trek or other SciFi shows.   They missed a good opportunity for Mary, Missy, Sheldon & Georgie to bond.  

Yes, Sheldon sharing with Missy his imagined Star Trekian parting with their Dad could have been really heart-warming, but this is not that kind of show. That type of scenario would have been on Leave It To Beaver or The Andy Griffith Show, both of which were written and produced before any of the Cooper family were born, except Meemaw.

Or maybe I’m just skeptical of families being supportive of one another during times of loss because I haven’t experienced it?
Seeing Missy and Sheldon and Mary acting out their grief seemed very realistic to me, and felt healing because it was.

Edited by shapeshifter
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50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Or maybe I’m just skeptical of families being supportive of one another during times of loss because I haven’t experienced it?

I'm sorry that you didn't experience support during your time of loss.  It's helpful when siblings come together and are able to make end-of-life decisions together, and all of the decisions that come after that.  Again, I think they all need professional counseling (a one-on-one session) with each of them so they could vent their anger to the counselor.   I know that it's normal to go through mood swings after a death, and we all deal with it in our own way, so I was sad that Missy's character went out in such turmoil.  I wanted a kinder ending for her!  Not a story to whitewash George's death, but rather something that gives me hope for her.  We know from TBBT though that she doesn't seem to get many wins in the coming years.  Sigh.

53 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Seeing Missy and Sheldon and Mary acting out their grief seemed very realistic to me, and felt healing because it was.

I'm glad that those scenes were helpful to you.  🥰

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11 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

We know from TBBT though that she doesn't seem to get many wins in the coming years.  Sigh.

This is  one reason why I'm glad they ended Young Sheldon when they did.  Missy and Sheldon are both in for a rough ride as they go through the teen years.  By the time we meet Missy on BBT though she has grown into a confident young woman who seems have got her life on track. Her first marriage may have ended in divorce but that doesn't have to mean her whole life got derailed.  

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1 hour ago, Dimity said:

By the time we meet Missy on BBT though she has grown into a confident young woman who seems have got her life on track. Her first marriage may have ended in divorce but that doesn't have to mean her whole life got derailed.  

When Sheldon & Amy got married, Missy was pregnant again and didn't seem so happy about it.  😏

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Just now, Chit Chat said:

When Sheldon & Amy got married, Missy was pregnant again and didn't seem so happy about it.  

I always will wonder why they did that.  It just seemed mean.  Georgie was Dr. Tire and obviously very successful, Mary seems to have landed on her feet and has been living a fulfilled life with no lack of money, so why did they  randomly have Missy unhappy with her pregnancy and, apparently, separated from her husband?  The only follow up we get to future Missy is  voice overs on Young Sheldon where Sheldon says she is happy, has four children and has lots of friends (but he has a Nobel Prize so he wins).

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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And at the time that was written into TBBT, there was no plan for the audience to meet childhood Missy.

Young Sheldon started airing in Sept 2017, the wedding episode for Sheldon and Amy aired in May of 2018.  I remember at the time   reading a few articles about how Jerry O'Connell studied the mannerisms of the lad playing young Georgie and he really did a good job of it.

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I really thought that I had prepared myself for this one...but I really wasn't. Everyone's reactions felt so right but so rough to see, I think I especially felt it in my gut when Connie's was speaking at the funeral about how she came around to George and called him her son, that felt like such a full circle moment. O the two episodes I thought that Funeral was the better one but I overall liked the last episode as well. This show certainly had some rough patches and I had basically no interest in it at first, but I'm glad I gave it a shot, it ended on a high (if sad) note and I think it stuck the landing. 

I think this episode fully confirmed a lot of what we have suspected for awhile, that a lot of Sheldon's stories about his family on TBBT were overly exaggerated and put through his self centered world view, especially his views on his dad. I would think that the older Sheldon who has been narrating the show would have been happy to go to his son's hockey game, but I guess they needed that book end moment. I was happy to see older Sheldon and Amy, and I bet Penny is a great babysitter. I also bet that grown up Georgie and Missy find the fact that Sheldon has a hockey player and an actress to be hilarious. 

Another little moment that got me was when the lady at the dry cleaner said how nice it was that he was picking up his suit for his dad and he looked so gutted for a second before pulling it together. I am not all that interested in the Mandy/Georgie spin-off, but I might check it out to see more of Georgie. 

I love that they went back to that Red Lobster dinner with Missy and George, Missy was so hurt and her lashing out was hard to watch, but I'm glad she had one last nice moment with Sheldon. I am glad that they had some time to briefly see some of the minor and supporting characters, Billy checking in on Missy, several characters stopping by with their casseroles, Brenda and Mr. Givens possibly vibing, it was certainly a more Sheldon centric episode, but I like that they still wrapped a lot up from this shows universe. 

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23 hours ago, Dimity said:

I always will wonder why they did that.  It just seemed mean.  Georgie was Dr. Tire and obviously very successful, Mary seems to have landed on her feet and has been living a fulfilled life with no lack of money, so why did they  randomly have Missy unhappy with her pregnancy and, apparently, separated from her husband?  The only follow up we get to future Missy is  voice overs on Young Sheldon where Sheldon says she is happy, has four children and has lots of friends (but he has a Nobel Prize so he wins).

I think they did it so they could show Raj be interested and have hope.

 

in my mind, he and Missy end up together and are at that hockey game, rooting for Leonard :-)

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(edited)
On 5/19/2024 at 9:24 AM, Chit Chat said:

I'm trying to remember if he was named with Leonard Nimoy in mind, more so than his friend Leonard.  Either way, it's still Leonard!!

He said he wanted to name him Leonard Nimoy Cooper but Amy wouldn’t let him.

Maybe it’s just me, but a brother and sister named after married couple would be weird. 

My head cannon will probably always be Marie Cooper. Both Sheldon and Amy have mentioned Marie Curie a lot over the years and it’s a hybrid of Mary and Connie.

On 5/20/2024 at 3:03 PM, Wanda said:

in my mind, he and Missy end up together and are at that hockey game, rooting for Leonard :-)

Missy deserves better than Raj. 

Edited by Makai
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On 5/17/2024 at 8:58 AM, Dimity said:

Anyway all that said I wanted to comment on how much I loved Amy in the Memoir episode.  She has come into her own with Sheldon and knows how to handle him and doesn't let him get away with anything.  

On 5/17/2024 at 9:13 AM, Chit Chat said:

All she did was fuss at him about going to their son's game (which he needed to do), but that got old quickly. 

I guess she knew what she was getting into, but I couldn't stop thinking of how she has 3 children, the most difficult of whom will probably not mature much in the future ("get into the shower; get dressed; get into the car"), who also sleeps with her once a year.

On 5/17/2024 at 9:30 AM, freeser said:

I did like Amy in the episode but was honestly disappointed with the older Sheldon.

After all Sheldon's talk about loving his Dad, appreciating all he did and understanding he did the best he could, etc. - he still acts like a jerk concerning his own kids.  He did not learn anything from his Dad or learn anything by being a father himself.  Even Sheldon should realize that no matter what his personal opinion of sports is, his son enjoys it and plays on a team.  Sheldon should certainly go watch him play no matter what.  Be A Dad Sheldon!  At least pretend to show some interest in your children. 

I guess I thought after he got married he would have somewhat matured emotionally and respected the feelings of his wife and kids.  But from what he was writing in his book and his attitude  toward watching his son's game, he still seems as self centered as always.  

Yup.

On 5/18/2024 at 4:05 PM, Skooma said:

She stayed in the same town but probably downsized some because that was where Sheldon and Howard came to visit her.

I wonder how much she could really downsize, though.  They had a 3-bedroom, 1 bathroom ranch.  Unless she and Missy shared a bedroom, they needed 2 of them, and you'd need to have someplace for Sheldon to sleep when  he came home (via free flights!).  He couldn't have stayed on campus every single holiday and summer, and he wouldn't have been a visiting professor when he was just 14.

Maybe the new house didn't have a garage?  I'm not going to go back to BBT to see if I can tell.  Or, maybe the house was in a less desirable part of town.

I guess we are all assuming that George didn't have much in the way of life insurance?

 

1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I guess we are all assuming that George didn't have much in the way of life insurance?

I don't know what they are going to say about Mary's finances if they reference it on the new sitcom but based on her lifestyle on BBT it seems like she is very comfortable. 

She has her job with the church and George probably did leave life insurance.  Of course this is sitcom land where salaries and bills etc are only an issue when the writers want them to be an issue but given that Mary can fly to California to visit Sheldon regularly (and often at the last minute) and goes on cruises and the like I think she landed on her feet and coped after she lost George even if the first few months or even years were a struggle.

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(edited)
On 5/18/2024 at 8:21 PM, Katy M said:

 Because, yes, this show really did throw Sheldon under the bus, making him either a liar, or someone who couldn't remember anything anywhere near accurately to save his life (which is a strange trait for someone who claims to have an eidetic memory.

I mean, Sheldon in TBBT is a gigantic asshole and there's a million jokes of him relating events that happened earlier in an episode in a completely warped manner.

That isn't to say that Young Sheldon didn't wholesale retcon pretty much everything relating to his family, as it clearly did, but I have a hard time seeing it as some big betrayal of the earlier show's character.

Edited by SeanC
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5 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Benefits, including life insurance, for state employees, which teachers and coaches are, are quite good. 

There would also be a pension from Texas Teacher's Retirement System (TRS) that would go to the widow. With SS, pension, life insurance, and her job at the church, Mary would not be rich, but comfortable.

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