S01.E02: A Classic New York Character

[shapeshifter]

S01.E02: A Classic New York Character
Airs April 4, 2024, 9pm ET / 8pm CT

Quote

After the loathed co-op board president (guest star Linda Lavin) of a luxury pre-war building falls off her balcony to her death, Elsbeth and Kaya are called to the scene to dig for a lead when they meet Joann (guest star Jane Krakowski), a high-powered Manhattan real estate broker with huge clients and even bigger secrets.

 

[AnimeMania]

Jane Krakowski as Joann 

Linda Lavin as Gloria Blecher

Peter Grosz as Leonard Rosen

Greg Hildreth as Lewis Blecher, Jr.

Johnny M. Wu as Det. Joey Browner
Ajay Naidu as Martin Wali
Nikolai Tsankov as Fisnik Raapi
Jason Latief Anderson as Police Officer

[ItCouldBeWorse]

It was premature for the police to declare that the wrench was the one used to loosen the screws on the balcony without further evidence, even if a suspect's prints were on them.

Also, if the dog walker was in on the plan, why bury dog treats so the dog would find the wrench? Why not just say that the dog found it? Also, I can understand enforcing dog barking rules within the building, but outside?

So the other owners didn't vote Blecher out because:

1) they were too lazy to run the co-op, even though nobody could sell their apartments

2) she knew deep secrets about all of them? What kind of dirt could she have on them that would stop them? 

Edited April 5 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Irlandesa]

30 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Also, if the dog walker was in on the plan, why bury dog treats so the dog would find the wrench? Why not just say that the dog found it?

I'm guessing they wanted as little contact to avoid suspicion.  Plus, it didn't have to be her dog that found the wrench. 

But this episode did feel a little rushed. 

However, I loved Jane Krakowski. 

[NeenerNeener]

When the cop said Elsbeth had cleared three murders, he was talking about the one from the first episode and then the two from this episode, right? At first I was confused and thought he was talking about three murders in this episode and there were only two.

[voiceover]

I kinda loved how they Murder on the Orient Express’d this story

#IYKYK

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm guessing they wanted as little contact to avoid suspicion.  Plus, it didn't have to be her dog that found the wrench. 

And yet the cops found the dog treats, meaning the dog bypassed the treats to focus on the wrench!

[MaryMitch]

Aw, you guys made me think about this episode and how ridiculous the whole thing is! Like why would a group of people plan a murder to get rid of someone they could just vote out? And what was so magical about that wrench that it had to be the only wrench in the world that could have loosened the bolts? And how did Elsbeth beat Joann to the top of the climbing wall?

Anyhoooo... I really like Elsbeth and Kaya - they make a fun team. I am enjoying this show!

Edited April 5 by MaryMitch

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, voiceover said:

I kinda loved how they Murder on the Orient Express’d this story

#IYKYK

I was thinking it had Only Murders In The Building vibes too.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

why would a group of people plan a murder to get rid of someone they could just vote out?

I assumed Joann steamrolled the whole scheme for revenge.

[MerBearHou]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was thinking it had Only Murders In The Building vibes too.

Very!

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I assumed Joann steamrolled the whole scheme for revenge.

There was also hints at blackmail and knowing where the bodies are buried. For her, that was literal.  They never said what she could possibly know about her neighbors.

That's why I said above the ending felt abrupt. 

[izabella]

18 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

When the cop said Elsbeth had cleared three murders, he was talking about the one from the first episode and then the two from this episode, right? At first I was confused and thought he was talking about three murders in this episode and there were only two.

I'm pretty sure the cop explained the third murder was in this episode.  They found the mummified remains of the balcony victim's husband somewhere inside the apartment.  He hadn't left her 30 years ago, as everyone thought in the episode.  She had killed her husband 30 years ago.

[AnimeMania]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm pretty sure the cop explained the third murder was in this episode.  They found the mummified remains of the balcony victim's husband somewhere inside the apartment.  He hadn't left her 30 years ago, as everyone thought in the episode.  She had killed her husband 30 years ago.

I am pretty sure people are asking if that statement meant 3 murders in this episode or 3 murders over the 2 episodes that have aired.

[Rorysmom]

When Elsbeth got that serious tone when she said "submit my paperwork..."

[possibilities]

I also liked when they were trying to tell her she couldn't be where she was and she got very serious and said "I think I can." Moments like this show that she can drop the goofy act and be serious as a heart attack. 

I'm starting to have a little trouble with how the Chief sees her clearing cases, sees his staff being lazy and not thorough and basically just deciding they don't really need good evidence, they can just come up with a theory and say someone is guilty even if it won't probably hold up in court, and yet... the Chief still doesn't treat Elsbeth like a serious person.

In the original Columbo, the cops knew Columbo was a good detective and they didn't really try to  stop him. It was the suspects who fell for the act.

In the reboot they are trying to run two stories-- that she is hoodwinking the suspects, but also investigating the corruption of the cops. I like this concept, but I think they need to do more to show that the cops realize she is smarter and/or more effective than they are, and that just brushing her off as an annoyance isn't going to work. Even if they are trying to keep her from discovering things, they are still doing it in a lazy way. I don't know how they should do this two-track throughline, but it isn't feeling credible to me right now, that the cops are still treating her like she's not really a threat, when she's clearly shown them that she sees right through them and her ditziness is an act.

Kaya clearly sees Elsbeth very clearly and is acting accordingly. She's the only person in the entire department who's doing so.

Edited April 6 by possibilities

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think they need to do more to show that the cops realize she is smarter and/or more effective than they are, and that just brushing her off as an annoyance isn't going to work. Even if they are trying to keep her from discovering things, they are still doing it in a lazy way. I don't know how they should do this two-track throughline, but it isn't feeling credible to me right now, that the cops are still treating her like she's not really a threat, when she's clearly shown them that she sees right through them and her ditziness is an act.

Kaya clearly sees Elsbeth very clearly and is acting accordingly. She's the only person in the entire department who's doing so.

I trust that the rest of the NYPD who Elsbeth works with will come to admire her. Didn't it take a while for some members of the LAPD to warm up to Brenda in The Closer? She was also an outsider WRT style, speech patterns, etc., and, like Elsbeth, she often played up her differences to hoodwink criminals or to work around cops who didn't trust her skills. 

I think the character of Kaya is useful to the show as Elsbeth's entry point into the action for now, but expect Elsbeth to win more hearts and minds by the end of the season. 

Or maybe I'm wrong and they'll keep the adversarial relationships going to create plot tension. I'd actually prefer this to unnecessary romance side plots, or, worse yet, long arcs featuring a sadistic serial killer who's an evil genius.

[possibilities]

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

I wouldn't mind seeing the cops resist Elsbeth forever, because I like the idea that incompetent and corrupt police will not be won over by the agent of the consent decree. I just find their resistance to her to be weak and kind of unconvincing. It's like they haven't figured out yet that she's capable, despite that she solved three murderers in no time flat.

They do have a bit of a problem, though, in that if she cracks the corruption case and they take down the Chief and reform the department... then Elsbeth no longer has a reason to be there, since she's only there on behalf of the consent decree and isn't actually part of the NYPD.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

I probably watched all the episodes 2 or 3 times each, but don't anymore. 
Give it a try?

 

 

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wouldn't mind seeing the cops resist Elsbeth forever, because I like the idea that incompetent and corrupt police will not be won over by the agent of the consent decree. I just find their resistance to her to be weak and kind of unconvincing. It's like they haven't figured out yet that she's capable, despite that she solved three murderers in no time flat.

I wonder if the writers have a clear show bible yet that is more or less set in stone, or if they're waiting to see how it works. 
I could see them having one main character of the NYPD won over to Elsbeth's side per season or per half season. 

 

 

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

They do have a bit of a problem, though, in that if she cracks the corruption case and they take down the Chief and reform the department... then Elsbeth no longer has a reason to be there, since she's only there on behalf of the consent decree and isn't actually part of the NYPD.

In episode 3, there was a brief exchange between Elsbeth and Kaya in which 

Spoiler

Kaya questioned if Elsbeth could afford to buy a place in NYC and asked how long Elsbeth would be staying in NY, to which Elsbeth responded, pointing out that she had been a lawyer in Chicago, and (I think??) hinted that she could do that in NY too — presumably after passing the Bar in NY.

 

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

Kyra Sedgewick is a good actress but Brenda could annoy me quite a bit and would bend the rules in an unlikable way.  Still, it's a decent procedural with a good cast.  Personally, I preferred when The Closer became Major Crimes after Kyra's departure. Mary McDonnell (who overlapped a bit on The Closer) became the lead while most of The Closer characters remained.  She's a little like Elsbeth in that her character came on as a member of Internal Affairs to investigate Brenda's homicide department so it's not a "cops can do no wrong" and more "pushing cops to do right" telling.

So in summary, The Closer is good (haven't seen all the episodes, though) but I'm more likely to recommend Major Crimes.

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I just find their resistance to her to be weak and kind of unconvincing. It's like they haven't figured out yet that she's capable, despite that she solved three murderers in no time flat.

As of right now, it kind of works because she works with a different detective for each case.  I imagine they'll eventually have detectives who repeat and we may see different relationships develop.  Some may never accept her and others will.

Edited April 7 by Irlandesa

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Kaya questioned if Elsbeth could afford to buy a place in NYC and asked how long Elsbeth would be staying in NY, to which Elsbeth responded, pointing out that she had been a lawyer in Chicago, and (I think??) hinted that she could do that in NY too — presumably after passing the Bar in NY.

I'm pretty sure she was simply explaining that she had earned so much money in Chicago, she could afford a pricey NY apartment.  

 

Edited April 7 by ItCouldBeWorse

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I'm pretty sure she was simply explaining that she had earned so much money in Chicago, she could afford a pricey NY apartment.  

Right! 
I should've made it clear that I was just speculating that maybe it was a hint from the writers to the audience that Elsbeth might do some lawyering in NY in the future. 

Or, it could just a bit of backstory for her for those who don't know Elsbeth as a lawyer from The Good Wife or The Good Fight.

There was another line — maybe in the next episode? — that made me wonder about that too.
But, again, the writers could just be explaining why she knows so much about the law? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Having 2 hour-long episodes this week with another coming up next week is a lot to digest.

I wish instead they'd dropped 2 episodes before March Madness, but I guess the scheduling didn't work?

[Yeah No]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

I assumed Joann steamrolled the whole scheme for revenge.

I can fully buy Joann's motive for revenge, but not the rest of the board's.  If they were so intimidated by Gloria that they would never vote her out how could they be convinced to take such a bold and risky move as they did?

I did love the take on the dysfunctional and quirky world of co-op boards in NYC given my experience with one going back decades.  My father was the president of his for a long time, although he was loved and respected, not loathed.  But after he retired he complained about how the building management company took control over the board and made its new president powerless.  And the board itself wimped out and let it happen.  The building manager became the loathed person with the wimpy board letting her control them.  My father said the management company wouldn't have dared try that when he was president and they didn't have to accept it.  So I can totally see something like this happening, I just can't see a wimpy board like that being essentially an accessory to murder.

[love2lovebadtv]

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

I wouldn't mind seeing the cops resist Elsbeth forever, because I like the idea that incompetent and corrupt police will not be won over by the agent of the consent decree. I just find their resistance to her to be weak and kind of unconvincing. It's like they haven't figured out yet that she's capable, despite that she solved three murderers in no time flat.

They do have a bit of a problem, though, in that if she cracks the corruption case and they take down the Chief and reform the department... then Elsbeth no longer has a reason to be there, since she's only there on behalf of the consent decree and isn't actually part of the NYPD.

I HIGHLY recommend watching The Closer. It's a different premise but there is a similar quirky approach to solving crimes and the lead on the show is also new to the city and lugs around a huge tote bag, just like Elsbeth. 

I agree that the show can switch things up a bit because Elsbeth has new, unrelated crimes each episode and also works with a different detective. 

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Kyra Sedgewick is a good actress but Brenda could annoy me quite a bit and would bend the rules in an unlikable way.  Still, it's a decent procedural with a good cast.  Personally, I preferred when The Closer became Major Crimes after Kyra's departure. Mary McDonnell (who overlapped a bit on The Closer) became the lead while most of The Closer characters remained.  She's a little like Elsbeth in that her character came on as a member of Internal Affairs to investigate Brenda's homicide department so it's not a "cops can do no wrong" and more "pushing cops to do right" telling.

So in summary, The Closer is good (haven't seen all the episodes, though) but I'm more likely to recommend Major Crimes.

As of right now, it kind of works because she works with a different detective for each case.  I imagine they'll eventually have detectives who repeat and we may see different relationships develop.  Some may never accept her and others will.

I loved both shows. The Closer because of the character but Major Crimes, I think, had stronger writing. 

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I'm pretty sure she was simply explaining that she had earned so much money in Chicago, she could afford a pricey NY apartment.  

 

This was my take, too. I like the little reminders of Elsbeth's career background, especially for viewers who didn't watch the other shows the character was on. Since Elsbeth isn't practicing law and is new to NYC, it is important to highlight that she was a practicing defense attorney in a big city for decades. I especially liked when Elsbeth mentioned that it felt good to be on the side of the truth, as a further nod to her motivation for taking on this assignment.

[EtheltoTillie]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

 

The Closer was very good, as was the sequel show, Major Crimes.  They had a great ensemble crew of the squad detectives. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I enjoyed this episode despite some absurd premises. I too live in a coop and there are a couple of board members who are pompous know it alls. But as they mentioned in the episode many shareholders don’t want to take these positions as they are too much work. 
 

Separate topic: I said on episode one that Wendell Pierce cannot be a bad guy. I’m thinking they are hinting that he’s a good guy and the captain is planting suspicion on him and the captain is the corrupt one. This is based on a couple of exchanges. 

Edited April 8 by EtheltoTillie

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Separate topic: I said on episode one that Wendell Pierce cannot be a bad guy. I’m thinking they are hinting that he’s a good guy and the captain is planting suspicion in him and the captain is the corrupt one. This is based on a couple of exchanges. 

I like that theory!

[txhorns79]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:03 PM, Irlandesa said:

There was also hints at blackmail and knowing where the bodies are buried. For her, that was literal.  They never said what she could possibly know about her neighbors.

If I remember right, when they were going through the board minutes, they noted that the victim had written down dirt about people in the various apartments, i.e. some were having affairs, money troubles, etc. 

[shapeshifter]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

I assumed Joann steamrolled the whole scheme for revenge.

On 4/5/2024 at 10:03 PM, Irlandesa said:

There was also hints at blackmail and knowing where the bodies are buried. For her, that was literal.  They never said what she could possibly know about her neighbors.

That's why I said above the ending felt abrupt. 

33 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

If I remember right, when they were going through the board minutes, they noted that the victim had written down dirt about people in the various apartments, i.e. some were having affairs, money troubles, etc. 

Yes, but still "abrupt," or even "abbreviated."
We can cobble together what happened, but these days writers seem to think it's better to leave quite a bit open to speculation. 

 

[Simba122504]

Of course they are going to warm up to her eventually. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:14 PM, Irlandesa said:

I was thinking it had Only Murders In The Building vibes too.

Indeed. There's a fine line between doing an "homage" and shamelessly riding the coattails of another show's popularity. I got more vibes of the latter in this case.

Elsbeth seemed less extreme to me in this episode but the murder mystery, and the villain, were far less interesting than in the pilot.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/6/2024 at 4:06 PM, possibilities said:

I never watched The Closer. Do you recommend it?

I also highly recommend The Closer. It was appointment tv for me.  However, it is much grittier than Elsbeth (wouldn't take much to be grittier, but it definitely is.)  I doubt that any of the Elsbeth episodes that have already been shown will stay with me very long, but parts of The Closer did, in a good way.

And the sequel, Major Crimes, was also great.

[wendyg]

I think this show may have lost me just for the sin of hiring Linda Lavin and killing her off ten minutes in. What a waste!

[chitowngirl]

7 minutes ago, wendyg said:

I think this show may have lost me just for the sin of hiring Linda Lavin and killing her off ten minutes in. What a waste!

Maybe that’s why she took the role! 😄 But it would have been fun if she was the killer and watching her in a battle of wits with Elsbeth…

[LisaM]

Loved seeing Linda Lavin. Getting used to this show and to Elsbeth's quirks.

I really like the relationship between Elsbeth and the female cop. 

[shapeshifter]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:45 PM, wendyg said:

I think this show may have lost me just for the sin of hiring Linda Lavin and killing her off ten minutes in. What a waste!

On 4/18/2024 at 12:53 PM, chitowngirl said:

Maybe that’s why she took the role! 😄

Yes, Linda Lavin is 86.
I'm "only" 70 and I'd need to have a trailer on set for naps if it was more than a walk-on part, LOL.
But, looking at Linda Lavin's IMDb page, it looks like she may have been just too busy for a bigger part. 

 

[snarktini]

Weird, I'm watching now on Prime and this episode is the third, not the second. So the thing about the number of murders solved was particularly confusing. (My guess is this isn't an error, it was the original order based on her progress fixing up the closet office.)

I like Elsbeth and her schtick, but three tote bags bugs me. Can't be good at a crime scene either.