Josh and Anna

[Dr Spengler]

A place to discuss Josh and Anna.  This is a challenging discussion for us, as Josh, 35, was found guilty of receiving and possessing child sexual abuse material in December 2021. Throughout his trial, Anna was seen supporting her husband in court. She was present for his official sentencing in May 2022, where he was ordered to serve 151 months in prison.

It is understandable to be appalled by Josh's crimes, but let's try to be respectful of each other's opinions.

Guidelines for respectful, diverse, and inclusive conversations.

[Liddy52]

When I click on the above link, the document with the guidelines is very small on my tablet, making the print impossible for me to read. I have tried several times to enlarge it to no avail. I am not particularly tech savvy. It might be my tablet and everyone else may be able to read it easily, but I cannot. Thank you for any suggestions on how I can read this.

[oliviabenson]

Wonder if the Supreme Court will even consider his case.

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, Liddy52 said:

When I click on the above link, the document with the guidelines is very small on my tablet, making the print impossible for me to read. I have tried several times to enlarge it to no avail. I am not particularly tech savvy. It might be my tablet and everyone else may be able to read it easily, but I cannot. Thank you for any suggestions on how I can read this.

Its the same guidelines they have been posting recently. If you access it from the top of the Counting On home page are you able to read them?

[dariafan]

His options will have been used , and this part of the nightmare for everyone else can end.  

[jacourt]

They don’t have to look at every case submitted, correct?  If they don’t look at it then the lower court decisions stand. It’s been a while since 8th grade civics. 

[AstridM]

4 minutes ago, jacourt said:

They don’t have to look at every case submitted, correct?  If they don’t look at it then the lower court decisions stand. It’s been a while since 8th grade civics. 

Correct.

[Heathen]

Josh is 36, not 35 -- as of yesterday. He has the same birthday as my grandmother. 

[oliviabenson]

36 with 7 kids and barely ever had employment. And now on a long break… who will even hire him in 12 years? Who will support him financially when he exits prison?

[GeeGolly]

Did Miss Balls lose her prison informers? Or has she shared info and I'm not aware?

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

36 with 7 kids and barely ever had employment. And now on a long break… who will even hire him in 12 years? Who will support him financially when he exits prison?

His father? 

[oliviabenson]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

His father? 

How old will JB be in 12 years? 75?

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

How old will JB be in 12 years? 75?

Is he even 60 yet? 

ETA, he is 58 right now, so he would just be 70. 

Edited March 4 by libgirl2

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Is he even 60 yet? 

He’s 58.

[GeeGolly]

I spent a couple years working exclusively with 'after incarceration' folks. Assisting with everything from getting a ride from the jail or prison, pocket money, renewing IDs, social services, clothing and obtaining housing and jobs. None of it is easy. A lot of discrimination, but also some great places and landlords who go out of their way to be supportive. But IMO, some felons should have limited ability to work, live and move about the community - Josh included.

The judge made it sound like Josh had sizable savings, whether any of that will be left in 8ish years, who knows. IMO, any support he gets from JB has less to do with JB's age and more to do with how much money JB has left.

But no doubt, unlike many of my former clients, Josh will always have a place to lay his head and food to eat, even if it feels totally unfair.

[crazy8s]

28 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

His father? 

That would be consistent with Duggar way.

I think Justin is the only Duggar son not working for duggar enterprises or living in housing either owned by JB, or some housing on the TTH property. Josiah owns his own property and home, but possibly still works for Pops in some capacity.

TTH property - Joe, Jer, Jason James and Josh's family.

John and Jed live in housing owned by JB.

Jackson is what 19 or 20 now? maybe still in the boys dorm or in some out building on the TTH property like Jason and James are.

[Liddy52]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Its the same guidelines they have been posting recently. If you access it from the top of the Counting On home page are you able to read them?

No, I cannot. I tried several times over the weekend and could not.  I was hoping this link might work better but unfortunately it comes up in exactly the same format.  Thanks for the suggestion,  though.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, jacourt said:

They don’t have to look at every case submitted, correct?  If they don’t look at it then the lower court decisions stand. It’s been a while since 8th grade civics. 

Historically, they've reviewed about 1% of the cases appealed to them.

So it's possible that they might decide to review this case. I just don't think it's very likely. Like, about a 1% chance.

 

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Liddy52 said:

No, I cannot. I tried several times over the weekend and could not.  I was hoping this link might work better but unfortunately it comes up in exactly the same format.  Thanks for the suggestion,  though.

Its 11 pages long. Here's the first page which gives the flavor of what they're looking for. 

[AstridM]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

It’s 11 pages long. Here's the first page which gives the flavor of what they're looking for. 

11 pages? Good lord. 

[Liddy52]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Its 11 pages long. Here's the first page which gives the flavor of what they're looking for. 

Thank you!

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, AstridM said:

11 pages? Good lord. 

That is a bit overkill. Its supposed to be fun, not a job. 

[auntieminem]

On the Community Guideline  page is the link to the survey.   I took it and on place where we could give suggestions I asked about getting their assistance in "fixing" the titles and forum. From seeing the survey I would agree someone's or several someone's responses probably prompted their ill informed action. 

 

[Iguessnot]

33 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

That is a bit overkill. Its supposed to be fun, not a job. 

I take solace in the fact that I am old and will shed my earthy bonds sooner than later; because I cannot comprehend these new commandments. It's not rocket science yet equally beyond my reach. I'll just post here and there until they put me on an iceberg.

[zoomama]

2 hours ago, Liddy52 said:

When I click on the above link, the document with the guidelines is very small on my tablet, making the print impossible for me to read. I have tried several times to enlarge it to no avail. I am not particularly tech savvy. It might be my tablet and everyone else may be able to read it easily, but I cannot. Thank you for any suggestions on how I can read this.

it is 11 pages!!! 

 

[Salacious Kitty]

3 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Wonder if the Supreme Court will even consider his case.

Probably not. There's no case law that needs to be addressed. His appeals have borne that out. 

Edited March 4 by Salacious Kitty

[merylinkid]

I am quite sure that the lawyers explained the likelihood of success of the Supreme Court even taking the case to both Josh and Anna -- and Jim Bob.    Whether they listened or not is another matter.   

[Gemma Violet]

The Sun is reporting that Joe Duggar and David Waller visited Josh yesterday and stayed all day.  

[Albanyguy]

40 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

The Sun is reporting that Joe Duggar and David Waller visited Josh yesterday and stayed all day.  

Is this the first time one of his siblings has visited?

[Gemma Violet]

3 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Is this the first time one of his siblings has visited?

That we know of.  We've heard of Anna visiting him, but I don't recall hearing that any of the siblings visited him.  

Of course, there may have been visits that have not been picked up by the press and we just don't know about.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

The Sun is reporting that Joe Duggar and David Waller visited Josh yesterday and stayed all day.  

Joe is kind of a surprise. I don't remember Josh having a relationship with Joe when he still lived at home. 

But we don't know Joe any longer since he went dark. Maybe he's gotten into ministry. 

[GeeGolly]

Prisons allow all day visitors?

[Salacious Kitty]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Prisons allow all day visitors?

Waller can probably claim he does prison ministry. Joe's a wildcard. 

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Prisons allow all day visitors?

Nope

[Salacious Kitty]

40 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Nope

That's why I was thinking Waller went in as a prison ministry. Yes, he would have to speak to other prisoners, but he could also have alone time with Josh as well as his pastor. 

Again, no clue how Joe would fit into this. 

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Prisons allow all day visitors?

Depends on the size of the crowd in the visitor room and how many visitors are waiting their turn to get in.  I could visit my nephew for  a few hours if there were empty tables for other visitors.  He’s out now and living a crime free life.  

Edited March 6 by mythoughtis

[CalicoKitty]

I would bet that DW is his spiritual advisor.  Maybe Joe is in training since Anna's family has a history of prison ministry.  David being there does not surprise me at all.  He and Josh appeared to be good friends in the past.

[Salacious Kitty]

The Wallers just posted on IG about voting, then doing prison ministry today. So, there's evidence of a prison visit today. 

The IG post was made after the Sun article, so that's not the Sun's source.

Edited March 6 by Salacious Kitty

[Zella]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Depends on the size of the crowd in the visitor room and how many visitors are waiting their turn to get in.  I could visit my nephew for  a few hours if there were empty tables for other visitors.  He’s out now and living a crime free life.  

Yeah I know a lady whose son is in prison. State versus federal, but she gets 4-hour visits monthly with him.

[farmgal4]

15 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

The Sun is reporting that Joe Duggar and David Waller visited Josh yesterday and stayed all day.  

I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that one.👂🏻

[GeeGolly]

Maybe David was trying to relate to Josh on a criminal level. Explaining how he was able to get on the right path after his brief stint as a pecan thief. 

[crazy8s]

Is Joe the one that helped Jinger through her spiritual crisis when she was a teen?

[GeeGolly]

15 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Is Joe the one that helped Jinger through her spiritual crisis when she was a teen?

It was Joe, but I think it was Joy he helped.

[merylinkid]

Considering David Waller was pretty high up in Gothardism and was at HQ with Bill Gothard, I have my own ideas on why he and Josh are friends.   And that's all I am going to say.

[GeeGolly]

David and Josh go way, way, way back, long before he worked for Gothard. It seems as if both family's journeys into Fundamentalist Christianity were very similar.

[jacourt]

Joe is married to Kendra? If that’s the case he has children the age of those involved in the videos. I don’t get how you he can be around Josh. 

[quarks]

10 minutes ago, jacourt said:

Joe is married to Kendra? If that’s the case he has children the age of those involved in the videos. I don’t get how you he can be around Josh. 

I think it can be very hard to completely cut any family member out of your life, no matter what that person did. Not impossible - obviously people do this every day - but hard. There's a 2023 documentary up on HBO Max right now, Great Photo, Lovely Life, exploring this. The family knows what their father/grandfather has done, and yet....they visit him.

(Warning: I found that documentary very hard to watch, and, honestly, I'd recommend watching the Mary Tyler Moore documentary instead.)

So that's one thing. But also, the Sun just says that he visited Josh, not why he visited Josh. A prayer session? A general family visit? To get a general sense of Josh's physical/emotional well-being?

Or was it an attempt to ask Josh to stop with the court appeals after this Supreme Court thing? Or a hard discussion about family finances, with a Duggarling and a Waller coming along to verify/clarify that the Duggars/Wallers/Kellers cannot be expected to support Anna and the kids and Josh's ongoing legal bills? Joe, old enough to remember the financially tight pre-show times, and with four kids of his own, seems like a person who might want to make that argument.

Meanwhile, I can't help noting that visits from the Duggar siblings are so rare that the Sun thinks they are newsworthy. And sure, that's partly because, hey, this is the Sun, which has a different definition of "newsworthy" than I do, but it still strongly suggests that most of the Duggars aren't bothering to come and visit Josh at all.

[GeeGolly]

Joe might be in the Josh didn't do it camp. He's kind of the male version of Joy, but without an opinionated husband, or in his case wife, to point out the obvious.

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

Or a hard discussion about family finances, with a Duggarling and a Waller coming along to verify/clarify that the Duggars/Wallers/Kellers cannot be expected to support Anna and the kids and Josh's ongoing legal bills?

If Jim Bob has decided that it's time to break the news to Josh that there will be no more money for his legal bills, it would be just like him to send one of the boys along to do his dirty work for him.

[merylinkid]

If SCOTUS denies cert (doesn't take the case) that's pretty much the end of the line.    There won't be any more legal bills.    Since he already filed for cert (request for the Supremes to take the case) there should be only minimal or even no legal bills until such time as the Supremes make a decision to take the case or not.   If they don't (which is more than likely) then that's it.   No more bills.   So that drain was ending soon already.   

Now the ongoing support of Anna and the kids, that's going to continue.   From what I gather Anna helps out around the big house, helps with the homeschooling, etc., so she does "earn her keep" so to speak.   And the kids are more minions for Jim Bob to control and raise the Duggar way which is to never question him.   Then the girls will be married off and the boys will find jobs in Duggar enterprises.