S03.E03: Gregory’s Garden Goofballs

[BAForever]

2 hours ago, lovinbob said:

I'd have to guess that the school was required to make *some* accommodation for Imani, and that's why she had a speech-to-text tablet. While not the best they could do for her, it was an accommodation, so they could claim they offered an accommodation.

Look at it from the flip side -- if a school paid for a FT (or even part time) salary for *one child,* there would be plenty of taxpayers who would be up in arms about the district's allocation of funds. It's a damned if you do/don't situation.

Many larger districts would transfer Imani to a school site with other hearing impaired students and qualified Special Ed teacher(s). It's a huge balancing acts for public schools because there are not enough quality special needs educators and not enough money. 

[BAForever]

Just now, BAForever said:

Many larger districts would transfer Imani to a school site with other hearing impaired students and qualified Special Ed teacher(s). It's a huge balancing acts for public schools because there are not enough quality special needs educators and not enough money. 

Thar being said, I've been in more than 100 IEP meetings, and they are often overwhelming to parents. There is a school administrator, gen Ed teacher, a special Ed teacher, a school counselor, a psychometrist or other tester on one side, parents on the other. I love when parents bring an advocate. I love my now-school, but they won't always provide services that I think the child needs.

 

[peeayebee]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Did the actor playing Tariq lose weight? Suddenly, he was very hot.

I thought the same thing. On both counts.

BTW, I was wondering about the title of this ep, Gregory's Garden Goofballs. Seems like a very random title. Was this phrase actually said?

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, lovinbob said:

While not the best they could do for her, it was an accommodation, so they could claim they offered an accommodation.

The law says EVERY child is entitled to an equal education. It's bullshit to give a half-assed measure that deprived the child of actually being able to participate fully. 

Let's say your kid can only "hear" half of what is going on in the classroom because her tablet can't keep up. Oh well, tough luck! Let your kid fall by the wayside!

People make all kinds of excuses. If they need to allocate more money for the schools then advocate for that, not for letting some kids go to hell.

We spend more on useless crap in this country than on essentials. It's criminal.

[Badsamaritan]

I love how this show is shining a light on public education in urban areas. I work for an education adjacent org and I've heard so many similar stories from actual teachers, and the care Quinta and her writers take is just lovely to watch. 

I very clearly remember my first crush was 4th grade. By 5th, we were at our desk doing the folded up paper thing with names of boys we liked to see who we would end up with. And the note passing...

'Do you want to be my girlfriend? YES or NO'. 

Maybe it was just me but that preteen drama was bringing up flashbacks of my own youth, so it made perfect sense. And yes, sometimes teachers were involved because somebody had to calm and redirect those out of control preteen hormonal emotions. The way little miss was so very upset with Gregory is exactly how I picture my nephew's 3 daughters when they get to that age, and I laughed and laughed. He knows why. 😈😉

AVA ALMOST CALLED JANINE HER FREN, AW! 🥹

Someone above called Manny Nino Brown and now I can't unsee that 😭

Janine is starting to come into her own, I love it. And I love her knowing what Tariq meant by PTA and paying him dust. He's a very charming mooch but he never deserved Janine. 

[chitowngirl]

Melissa was probably involved because she was their teacher when the girls were in the lower grades and they like her. What I don’t get is how everyone seems to have lunch at the same time! And, yes, there’s no way the kids can just wander around the school and hang out. Teachers, or aides, have to know where the kids are at all times.

[Blakeston]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:28 AM, MicheleinPhilly said:

Eh. I didn't take any of the kids' "romances" seriously and I don't think Melissa and Ms. Barbara do either. To me it was just a further demonstration of how involved in these kids lives they are and how much they care about them. 

Melissa said she was "managing a million pre-teen relationships." Managing students' relationships is a fool's errand for any teacher, and it's not appropriate, either.

[deatoya]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:29 PM, chitowngirl said:

Re: an IEP-a lot of times you have to have the parent advocate and push for an IEP. And once you have one, the parent has to make sure that it’s being followed. It’s unbelievable, but true, that teachers don’t follow the goals on them.

Wouldn't this be a 504  not an IEP since it's a service for a disability? 

[shapeshifter]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:11 PM, Blakeston said:

I was really irritated that Melissa was yelling at him for daring to tell an eighth-grade boy that he shouldn't buy a gift for himself for his girlfriend's birthday.

Melissa's students are pretty young. It's absolutely disturbing that she's "managing the love lives" of eighth grade girls. That sounds like the kind of thing that she should be banned from getting involved in.

But didn't Melissa only get involved in the teen romance when the student was in tears? 
— which was a result of Gregory getting involved in the teen romance?

[Skyfall]

I'm in my early 30s and after my freshman year me and a couple people just started eating in the classroom of the class we were going to have after lunch (she was a cool teacher). I don't remember what I did my senior year though. So it's not unheard of, but it also was just a few of us.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, deatoya said:

Wouldn't this be a 504  not an IEP since it's a service for a disability? 

Possibly? Probably? There is such nuance between the 2! I’ve looked at charts and sometimes I can’t explain what service falls under which category

[Megan]

Ava is well into Gina Linetti territory for me.

The huge asshole, scamming character that very occasionally is right but usually for the wrong reasons, should not have the job or position they have because they are incompetent and dishonest. The "nice" people have to humble themselves at their feet constantly, or  kowtow to these people's selfish and often hurtful or destructive whims.

It's a character type I hate and think is unfunny. 

It's part of my trio of TV hates that also include, the precocious orphaned scamp added to the cast on season 4, and when actors sing in otherwise unmusical shows.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But didn't Melissa only get involved in the teen romance when the student was in tears? 
— which was a result of Gregory getting involved in the teen romance?

She said that they had been trying to get him to buy a chain for a long time and finally got him to think it was his idea. 

Apparently buying himself a chain for her birthday is what she wanted.

 

I learned this episode that it's not just a k-6 school.

 

Edited February 18 by Megan
Ava not Eva

[Crashcourse]

10 minutes ago, Megan said:

Ava is well into Gina Linetti territory for me.

The huge asshole, scamming character that very occasionally is right but usually for the wrong reasons, should not have the job or position they have because they are incompetent and dishonest. The "nice" people have to humble themselves at their feet constantly, or  kowtow to these people's selfish and often hurtful or destructive whims.

Nailed it!  

Honestly, Ava is the one person who spoils the show for me.

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Nailed it!  

Honestly, Ava is the one person who spoils the show for me.

I get that. She was part of the reason I skipped season 2.

And maybe it's just because I've been retired long enough now to have blocked my own Terrible Boss trauma memories, but I also kind of appreciate the way the show makes fun of The Terrible Boss.
(No offense intended to real life wonderful bosses)

Was the character of the principal originally supposed to have less screen time that was later increased because it's a comedy and there were so many idiotic/comedic things Janelle James could do so well, plus, viewers with terrible bosses need their weekly fix of seeing and being able to commiserate with other viewers about how terrible principal Ava is?

I do appreciate that Ava has now been educated about being a principal, so she can just be a Terrible Boss without the excuse of being ignorant of the job. 

But I don't really want to see her become a Wonderful Boss because in my long life, I have not seen leopards change their spots.

From the beginning, my understanding is that the series ends with Gregory becoming principal (his original goal). He would be so much better at it than Ava, especially since he now has teaching experience (and just this episode learned a thing or two).

Maybe Ava can get a gig on a reality show, where the character belongs.

And Janelle James can get cast as a very different character to play on her own show — or even do her own Netflix comedy special — or maybe have a role on Broadway!

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, Megan said:

Ava is well into Gina Linetti territory for me.

I was never a Gina Linetti fan, but I do like Ava. IRL, I would not, but as a character who does selfish and self-serving things, I find her funny. Great lines, great performance.

I'll add that I got into the show a bit late. It had already been on for a bit before I turned on S1 E1 on Hulu. I was into the second ep when I decided I didn't want to watch the struggles and problems of public schools. Then I decided to focus on the positive and funny parts of the show. Worked for me!

[Crashcourse]

Ava would be funny to me if she weren't in such a responsible position as school principal.   I see her as more of an embarrassment than being funny.   I wish she had been cast as one of the cafeteria workers (I'd love to see them again!).

[Joimiaroxeu]

Janine does not have a special set of skills in quoting from Taken.

Mean Italian lady. Yep, that's Melissa.

Janine is not a mole, Ava.

Please tell me 8th grade boys aren't actually having sex.

The "big teagues"? What does that even mean, Janine?

Tariq having seen Set It Off as a child explains a lot.

Mr. Johnson going to get his holy mop water.

Seems to me Mr Johnson would be the Nigerian prince trying to scam other people.

Manny's voice is like hot, melted butter to me.  Too bad he's sort of problematic.

Quote

I loved Janine's multicolored woolen coat.

Yeah, Quinta has really given herself a wardrobe upgrade this season. I would wear pretty much all of Janine's district outfits.

Quote

Nino Brown's crew from New Jack City

Now that's a deep cut. Maybe Abbott Elementary is feeling a little nostalgic for hood films since it referenced two of them in this episode.

[AnnMarie17]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:09 PM, libgirl2 said:

She must be getting paid well, that coat, while not too outrageous, is still expensive for someone who was struggling to pay bills not that long ago. 

I appreciate that they've given Janine's wardrobe an upgrade since she got her new position.  The clothes an early ed teacher wears wouldn't translate to a district office position. I like the realism there.

[Phebemarie]

I know many were relieved when Ava was deprogrammed at the end of the season opener.  I think it would have been funny to see the overly officious Ava a bit longer.  She could still be a foil to the staff and funny to the audience.  I think they missed an opportunity.  

This season seems like a year to show Janine's growth.  I still remember the first season when she pulled out that ridiculously high ladder to repair a flickering light and then tried to fix her mistake by opening up the fuse box with Jacob in tow.  She was an accident waiting to happen.  The writers are doing a good job with the arc of her character development.  This is not the same Janine who insisted on having her littles do the egg drop like the older students whose cranky science teacher couldn't stand her.  

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But didn't Melissa only get involved in the teen romance when the student was in tears? 
— which was a result of Gregory getting involved in the teen romance?

I don't think the writers would have given Melissa a line about managing a million pre-teen relationships if they wanted us to believe that she only got involved in that girl's relationship once she started crying. Especially because she was involved in trying to get the boyfriend to buy a new chain.

[kathyk2]

6 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

I know many were relieved when Ava was deprogrammed at the end of the season opener.  I think it would have been funny to see the overly officious Ava a bit longer.  She could still be a foil to the staff and funny to the audience.  I think they missed an opportunity.  

This season seems like a year to show Janine's growth.  I still remember the first season when she pulled out that ridiculously high ladder to repair a flickering light and then tried to fix her mistake by opening up the fuse box with Jacob in tow.  She was an accident waiting to happen.  The writers are doing a good job with the arc of her character development.  This is not the same Janine who insisted on having her littles do the egg drop like the older students whose cranky science teacher couldn't stand her.  

I agree with you. During the first season Janine couldn't get her class to behave. Last year her class didn't like Ava and wanted her back.

[Moose135]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:09 PM, libgirl2 said:

She must be getting paid well, that coat, while not too outrageous, is still expensive for someone who was struggling to pay bills not that long ago. 

She's not supporting Tariq anymore, so she probably has a little more spending money these days.

Edited February 22 by Moose135

[topanga]

On 2/18/2024 at 3:00 PM, shapeshifter said:

Was the character of the principal originally supposed to have less screen time that was later increased because it's a comedy and there were so many idiotic/comedic things Janelle James could do so well, plus, viewers with terrible bosses need their weekly fix of seeing and being able to commiserate with other viewers about how terrible principal Ava is?

I do appreciate that Ava has now been educated about being a principal, so she can just be a Terrible Boss without the excuse of being ignorant of the job. 

IMO, we get just enough of "terrible Ava" that she doesn't overwhelm the show. That would become tiring. In the episodes where she does get more screen time, we do see her learn something or have some sort of character arc. 

 

On 2/18/2024 at 5:01 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Please tell me 8th grade boys aren't actually having sex.

I wish I could. But many are. Girls, too. 

 

On 2/18/2024 at 5:01 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

The "big teagues"? What does that even mean, Janine?

Ala, in the Big Leagues (MLB).

[possibilities]

I like that the show uses off the shelf clothes that are reasonably affordable and not exorbitantly priced. 

In Philly, Janine absolutely has to have a winter coat. I don't know what cheaper coat she could get that would cost much less than $49.

Edited February 22 by possibilities

[EyewatchTV211]

On 2/18/2024 at 9:46 AM, chitowngirl said:

Possibly? Probably? There is such nuance between the 2! I’ve looked at charts and sometimes I can’t explain what service falls under which category

An IEP (special education) is for students with disabilities who require specialized instruction of some sort. The criteria for having a disability related to special education is generally more stringent than it is for a 504. A 504 is meant to level the "playing field" or helping students to access their instruction by providing accommodations to individuals with disabilities/impairments. Usually, direct services have only been part of special education and not a 504. However, schools seem to be moving to allowing them on 504s, likely due to parent pressure (through legal means or otherwise). Students with the same disability might show varying levels of need, so one may need special education while another student only needs a 504.

IEPs usually also include accommodations. 504s generally do not include specialized instruction, otherwise you probably should consider the student for special education.

Ex. of accommodation related to a situation like the student on the show - providing videos with closed captioning or other technology, giving written directions, etc.

Ex. of specialized instruction - instruction in how to communicate using ASL

Edited February 25 by EyewatchTV211

[Moot Smoothie]

I love, love, love Ava!  After Janine, she is my favorite by far and I was bummed when she didn't get the Emmy. I know she's not suited for her job but that's not uncommon in any field and this isn't really a documentary. Mr Johnson is so unrealistic with all his past life BS but that's what makes him interesting 🤷.

I can relate to the hate, though, because every time mush-mouth Melissa and her plastic face, pleather  'Grease'pants and OTP scenery munching self comes on I boo.  Seeing that her tedious relationship drama looks to possibly be brewing anew to take up time that, imo, would be better used showing my girl Ava getting in on that sweet online $200 air or Tariq doing ANYTHING hurts me. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:26 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Gregory's "advice" and the emotional fallout was entertaining.  I felt for him as a fellow introvert, but working as a teacher is a choice.  Hopefully, he can decompress and recharge at home! Tyler James continues to make great use of his side-eye. I also suspect him being one of the few black male teachers is part of why the students were drawn to his classroom. 

He’s also allowed to decompress at lunch. If he wants to let the kids hang out with him, he certainly welcome, but I never hang out with my students on my lunch break and never will. I’m a better educator when I can recharge, and I deserve my downtime as much as anyone else who takes their breaks at work. 
 

A huge problem I’m seeing in education right now is that districts and related services providers can’t hire anyone to fill roles for IEPs because they allocate a laughably low salary for the positions and no qualified candidates will even consider such low paying positions. 

[possibilities]

It is rather amazing that Gregory is now lunching with the students. He used to eat lunch in his car to avoid not only the kids but also the adults.

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

It is rather amazing that Gregory is now lunching with the students. He used to eat lunch in his car to avoid not only the kids but also the adults.

Presumably his eating lunch in his classroom is his way of still avoiding the adults, plus until now he had the expectation that he wouldn't be bothered by the kids either. Eating in the car isn't very comfortable, so he probably noticed that he could have the same result of avoiding everyone by eating in his classroom and was happy to make the transition, which was working fine for him until now.

[shapeshifter]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:39 PM, DanaK said:

Janine and Jacob try to hire an ASL interpreter.

I caught a bit on the news today about proposed legislation in Pennsylvania to provide more ASL services in schools and other public places; it was shot down — I think for funding reasons?

I wonder if this episode was inspired by that issue being in the PA headlines when they were writing the script. 

Edited March 3 by shapeshifter