S03.E02: Man of Your Dreams

[Annber03]

32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So many reasons…
For starters: Have you met Hetty?

Could also be that he's fine using that power for small dramas, like buying things or where to put a TV or whatever, but actively getting involved in significant life-changing decisions, like who to marry, would get really messy really fast, and that's just too much risk for that kind of power. 

[Driad]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

I'd love to know why Sass didn't influence Hetty not to marry Elias.

IIRC, Hetty did not have a lot of choice in the matter.  Didn't her father more or less trade her to Elias in exchange for land or something?

Edited February 25 by Driad

[Annber03]

18 minutes ago, Driad said:

IIRC, Hetty did not have a lot of choice in the matter.  Didn't her father more or less trade her to Elias in exchange for land or something?

Correct. That marriage was pretty much set in stone no matter what. It'd be quite heartbreaking, the idea that Thor, Sasappis, and Isaac might've watched Hetty go into what would clearly be an unhappy marriage and were frustrated that they couldn't do anything to stop it. 

[Bastet]

19 minutes ago, Neptune said:

wrong thread. Is there a way to delete it?

Not on your end, you have to have a moderator do it (by reporting it).

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, Neptune said:

Did Sass not care or didn’t even consider that he could be friends with dream Jay?

Maybe he wasn't sure if Jay would be okay with it.  Up until Jay & Sam moved in, nobody was interacting with the ghosts, so Sass could use his power however he wanted. Sass can be a little sassy and was enjoying his ghost power, but now he sees how he can hurt people, so maybe he'll use his powers more wisely. The way this unfolded, Jay can now appreciate it whenever Sass visits him in his dreams.  

10 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Sass is a fountain of information and I think it would be really nice if Jay was able to find out things about the ghosts that Sam doesn't even know.

I was thinking the same thing!  It would help Jay feel closer to the ghosts if he knew more about them.  It would be nice if Sass met up with Jay in his dreams maybe once a week or so.  Those conversations would be fun to hear.  This is a whole other avenue for the writers of the show!

[chaifan]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Correct. That marriage was pretty much set in stone no matter what. It'd be quite heartbreaking, the idea that Thor, Sasappis, and Isaac might've watched Hetty go into what would clearly be an unhappy marriage and were frustrated that they couldn't do anything to stop it. 

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but women going into unhappy marriages was the norm at the time.  Women being unhappy was norm at the time.  I don't think Sass or Thor (especially Thor) would think anything was amiss with that situation based on their observation of the living up to that point in time. 

Also, I commented on this earlier, but I do think Sass would be able to eat in a dream state.  I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.  He's not ghost Sass, he's dream Sass.  I think it would be great for Jay to make pizza for Sass in his dream state.

Edited February 25 by chaifan

[eel2178]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but women going into unhappy marriages was the norm at the time.  Women being unhappy was norm at the time. 

which could also be the reason behind the cocaine addiction

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Or, his gift grew over time. Its had over 700 years to evolve.

Sass has only been dead around 500 years. He died in the 1520s.

19 hours ago, shura said:

Sure, Sam interacting with the ghosts is the show.  But Alison on the British Ghosts did not come across this way, she was totally there for Mike (in the two seasons that I have seen, at least).  It’s probably because there Alison and Mike were actually struggling and persevering together, whereas here it doesn’t really feel like Sam and Jay are struggling. One is a freelance writer, the other a gifted chef, and they are pretty much enjoying life, even though they mention once in a while that they have no money. 

One thing the US doesn't do as much is show how much of a burden it is for Sam to be able to see the ghosts. They are constantly in her face asking for things, demanding things, bothering her, trying to talk to her while she is talking to a living, etc. (And in fairness, the UK ghosts are somewhat more annoying than the US ghosts.) I think this is something you have to understand about Sam, which is that she just as a lot to put up with, as opposed to Jay. Think of how distracting it would be to have eight or more people living in your house, in your face day in and day out asking for things and bothering you left and right. It's not all fun and games for Sam.

[Skooma]

17 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Ghosts can't eat that's why when they possess someone they eat what they want. Hetty ate new food in Jay's body and Thorfinn ate cod while possessing Sam. I'd love to know why Sass didn't influence Hetty not to marry Elias.

I think the original poster was referring to the fact that Sass loves to smell pepperoni pizza.  It seems his favorite thing to do.  But in a dream state maybe Dream Sass could eat one too.

16 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I love Hetty she's my favorite character. We don't know how much Elias influenced her opinions. I don't think she would hate the Irish if Elias hadn't cheated on her with an Irish maid. I would love to see flashbacks to Hetty as a young woman.

I don't think she would be the exception.  It was pretty much the attitude of the entire middle and upper class of the time to look down on the Irish.  "No Irish need apply" etc.  The Irish were the unwanted immigrants of the day to the old guard who painted an image of them as criminals and the ilk.  (The more things change the more they stay the same in American history).

15 hours ago, Driad said:

IIRC, Hetty did not have a lot of choice in the matter.  Didn't her father more or less trade her to Elias in exchange for land or something?

Not in exchange for land.  Her father thought that a woman couldn't inherit/run Woodstone properly because women didn't do such things in his generation's opinion so he looked for an in family relative to marry Hetty off to to assure it stayed in the family and Hetty could stay there too.  Thus she was married to cousin Elias.

[Chit Chat]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

hink of how distracting it would be to have eight or more people living in your house, in your face day in and day out asking for things and bothering you left and right. It's not all fun and games for Sam.

I think she addressed this with the ghosts at one point because they were being so demanding.  That would be mentally draining to have ghosts following you around and constantly needing your attention, much like children do!  Then she has to repeat everything to Jay whenever he's in the room.  I'd be exhausted!

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

I think she addressed this with the ghosts at one point because they were being so demanding. 

And Alberta mentioned it, too, when they discovered the Amazon thingie (Alexa?) could hear her voice, so they were all demanding she order things for them.  She wound up snapping that now she knows why Sam has rules, because it's relentless and aggravating.  It's something the writers will always have to bear in mind, that Sam loves the ghosts (to the extent she refused to reverse Thor's Viking curse because of the possibility it would mean she could not longer see and hear them) but it's disruptive and isolating to not only have this ability but have to hide it from almost everyone.

[mojito]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:30 PM, iMonrey said:

I re-watched the episode and at second glance there appears to be a large mirror sitting on top of the fireplace mantle in the room they argued about where to put the TV.

Hetty's portrait, painted on the wall, is behind the mirror.

Isacc telling an anecdote about James Madison's hunting print  being too high to stare at for the "entire burn of a tallow candle".

Pete: Ah, you guys did not have a lot do to back then, huh?

Isaac: Other than invent democracy?

Sass clears his throat.

Isaac: Amongst Europeans. 

 

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, Skooma said:

Not in exchange for land.  Her father thought that a woman couldn't inherit/run Woodstone properly because women didn't do such things in his generation's opinion so he looked for an in family relative to marry Hetty off to to assure it stayed in the family and Hetty could stay there too.  Thus she was married to cousin Elias.

Hetty has twice stated she was married off to Elias because her father wanted to close a land deal, and she was deemed the most comely of his daughters. (Damn her sister's thick ankles.)

[proserpina65]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:30 PM, iMonrey said:

putting the TV there wouldn't be prohibitively high after all.

It still would be too high.

[eel2178]

16 hours ago, mojito said:

Pete: Ah, you guys did not have a lot do to back then, huh?

Isaac: Other than invent democracy?

Sass clears his throat.

Isaac: Amongst Europeans. 

 

Democracy at least dates back to ancient Greece (probably the only thing I actually learned in my Humanities class at Reed College).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

 

On 2/23/2024 at 1:42 PM, Snow Apple said:

I wonder if Sass ever went into Hetty's dreams when she was alive. The others died as guests of the house and probably never slept there, but Hetty lived there since she was a child. Perhaps Sass didn't since he watched her grow up so it didn't feel right, but what about messing with her husband's mind? 

Sas said the dreamer had to be susceptible to being influenced.  It's possible that Hetty is not.

 

[Bastet]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:41 PM, Skooma said:

I don't think she would be the exception.  It was pretty much the attitude of the entire middle and upper class of the time to look down on the Irish.  "No Irish need apply" etc.  The Irish were the unwanted immigrants of the day to the old guard who painted an image of them as criminals and the ilk.  (The more things change the more they stay the same in American history).

Yeah, Hetty is of a time, class, and ancestry where one of Elias's dalliances being with an Irish maid is completely irrelevant to her attitude towards the Irish, which she'd have been born into and thus held well before then.

[ams1001]

26 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, Hetty is of a time, class, and ancestry where one of Elias's dalliances being with an Irish maid is completely irrelevant to her attitude towards the Irish, which she'd have been born into and thus held well before then.

She'd probably be less angry about it if she wasn't Irish.

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, Hetty is of a time, class, and ancestry where one of Elias's dalliances being with an Irish maid is completely irrelevant to her attitude towards the Irish, which she'd have been born into and thus held well before then.

Given all that it's surprising they hired an Irish maid in the first place. No doubt Elias thought she was hot but it would have been Hetty in charge of hiring maids, not Elias. I guess it's possible she was hired by the housekeeper and Elias prevented Hetty from firing her but even the housekeeper would have known how Hetty felt about the Irish.

10 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

On 2/23/2024 at 1:30 PM, iMonrey said:

putting the TV there wouldn't be prohibitively high after all.

It still would be too high.

I agree with Jay 100% a TV should be at eye level when you are seated. That said, as best as I can tell, that fireplace mantle is fairly low, so while it wouldn't be the ideal height it wouldn't be that bad. I can see Sam's point, it would be weird to turn the furniture around facing away from the doorway. Then again, the whole point of the TV was for Jay to be able to watch his games without sharing with the ghosts so she should have let him have this one.

BTW - that's a huge-ass TV for people that are supposed to be broke.

[PaulE]

20 hours ago, eel2178 said:

On 2/25/2024 at 7:57 PM, mojito said:

Pete: Ah, you guys did not have a lot do to back then, huh?

Isaac: Other than invent democracy?

Sass clears his throat.

Isaac: Amongst Europeans. 

 

Democracy at least dates back to ancient Greece (probably the only thing I actually learned in my Humanities class at Reed College).

He probably should've said "reinvent," since democracy pretty much went away by the time the Roman empire had fallen, and stayed away for a very long time after that.  Of course, even reinvention isn't completely accurate.  Isaac (or maybe the writers) is forgetting that, by the time he was alive, Britain's parliamentary system made it the most democratic state in Europe, although not yet up to today's standards.  That's where the U.S. got most of its democratic principles, after all.  If Nigel had been around I'm sure he'd have piped up about that.

[possibilities]

I think the main point was that the people indigenous to this continent had democracy before Isaac and his bros ever got here, and that Isaac and his bros didn't invent it at all. Also, I might add: North America isn't Europe. 

[tennisgurl]

Poor Jay, his feelings were so hurt when he realized what Sass was up to. I think its interesting that he was less upset about the obvious violation of his privacy and the creepy manipulations, and more that he and Sass could have actually gotten to know each other but instead he was just manipulated. Jay really does put up with a lot and is a really good sport about the whole weird situation, he deserves more consideration from the ghosts and Sam. 

Being able to explore people's dreams is a really cool ghost power and it fits perfectly with Sass being a storyteller. I hope that we see more of it being explored, especially now that he and Jay can hang out via dreams!

Pete was the episodes MVP, he's a great friend. 

[possibilities]

I confess, I have been known to say "Holy guacamole". 

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think the main point was that the people indigenous to this continent had democracy before Isaac and his bros ever got here, and that Isaac and his bros didn't invent it at all. Also, I might add: North America isn't Europe. 

Exacty. Not only idid he ignore indigineous people's history with democracy, but he he wouldn't even think about the fact that the ancient Greeks had it, too :p. 

To say nothing of the fact that even if one were to take into account the role of the Founding Fathers in the concept of democracy, Isaac still had very little role in the political events of that time peirod, too based off what we know about his past and how the Founding Fathers viewed him and so on. 

[Mabinogia]

42 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

To say nothing of the fact that even if one were to take into account the role of the Founding Fathers in the concept of democracy, Isaac still had very little role in the political events of that time peirod, too based off what we know about his past and how the Founding Fathers viewed him and so on. 

Isaac definitely has an inflated sense of self importance, so it is completely in character for him to claim to have helped "invent democracy". As much as I love Isaac, I very much love when his self important balloon gets deflated and Sass's little throat clear was perfect. 

[Chit Chat]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree with Jay 100% a TV should be at eye level when you are seated.

Being short, I am most comfortable with the TV being at eye level.  I wonder about TVs being hung over fireplaces.  I wouldn't think it would be too good for the electronics to be so close to the heat, but maybe it doesn't affect them.  It must not be a problem otherwise people wouldn't be hanging them up there!

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Isaac definitely has an inflated sense of self importance, so it is completely in character for him to claim to have helped "invent democracy". As much as I love Isaac, I very much love when his self important balloon gets deflated and Sass's little throat clear was perfect. 

LOL, same. I adore Isaac, but yeah, the fact that he's got these other people around to balance him out and pop his ego bubble when needed is definitely a large part of what makes him likeable in the first place :p. 

Mind, that can apply to all the ghosts - they're all hilariously flawed and the others will happily point out and poke at their flaws when possble. Which is part of what makes this show so fun to watch :D. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 2/23/2024 at 5:58 PM, possibilities said:

I can imagine Sass spending time watching people sleep, and taking an interest in their lives. What else was he to do with his time? Trapped in the house, in particular, I can see him hovering around and maybe he even tried to touch a sleeping person and then found himself suddenly seeing his thoughts adopted the next day by whoever he was spending his time with. 

Sas knew he had the power before there was a house there, when he and Thorfin were the only ghosts present. Presumably he found it out via proximity to fellow members of the Lenape, or European settlers who were in the area before Isaac's time.

Edited February 28 by Bruinsfan

[Lugal]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

LOL, same. I adore Isaac, but yeah, the fact that he's got these other people around to balance him out and pop his ego bubble when needed is definitely a large part of what makes him likeable in the first place :p.

I remember an interview that Brandon and Rebecca did where he said that Isaac and Hetty see themselves as above all the others when in reality they're just buffoons.

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Jay really does put up with a lot and is a really good sport about the whole weird situation, he deserves more consideration from the ghosts and Sam. 

Imagine how self conscious you would be knowing that at any given moment you were surrounded by ghosts watching whatever you happened to be doing. I think if it were me I would want to sell the house and move somewhere else. The problem would be finding another house that wasn't haunted but surely there are some out there. 

[kathyk2]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Imagine how self conscious you would be knowing that at any given moment you were surrounded by ghosts watching whatever you happened to be doing. I think if it were me I would want to sell the house and move somewhere else. The problem would be finding another house that wasn't haunted but surely there are some out there. 

Sam sees ghosts wherever she goes so selling the house wouldn't change anything.

[eel2178]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Imagine how self conscious you would be knowing that at any given moment you were surrounded by ghosts watching whatever you happened to be doing. I think if it were me I would want to sell the house and move somewhere else. The problem would be finding another house that wasn't haunted but surely there are some out there. 

Even if she found a house without ghosts (a new build maybe), she would have to live like someone with agoraphobia if she was going to avoid ghosts altogether.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Lugal said:

I remember an interview that Brandon and Rebecca did where he said that Isaac and Hetty see themselves as above all the others when in reality they're just buffoons.

LOL, I remember that interview, yeah :D. He's not exactly wrong...:p. 

I also remember them talking about how their characters always seemed to kinda defer to each other, both because of their perceived elevated status and the fact that they're close friends. Though Isaac doing that for Hetty does make sense considering the house is in her family and all :). 

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, eel2178 said:

Even if she found a house without ghosts (a new build maybe), she would have to live like someone with agoraphobia if she was going to avoid ghosts altogether.

At least there she knows who's alive and who isn't. When she goes out she can never be quite sure if she might be talking to someone only she can see.

[freddy320th]

finally caught up on this episode and interested in seeing how these powers that the ghost have expand the story line and what kind of anticks ensue in the future. so far season three has started off well.

[possibilities]

I keep trying to think of what Pete's or Hetty's ghost power might be, and what I want them to be. I want Hetty to have one she doesn't want to admit she has (because it's humbling) and Pete to have one he doesn't talk about (because it's badass).

[Annber03]

14 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I keep trying to think of what Pete's or Hetty's ghost power might be, and what I want them to be. I want Hetty to have one she doesn't want to admit she has (because it's humbling) and Pete to have one he doesn't talk about (because it's badass).

I still really like the idea of Pete having a power that is significant in some way, but he's never used it because he either iddn't realize he had/expect to have something that cool in the first place, or because he's far too polite and respectful to want to use it or abuse it in any way :p. Or he's scared the other ghosts will take advantage of it for their own gain :D. 

[kathyk2]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I still really like the idea of Pete having a power that is significant in some way, but he's never used it because he either iddn't realize he had/expect to have something that cool in the first place, or because he's far too polite and respectful to want to use it or abuse it in any way :p. Or he's scared the other ghosts will take advantage of it for their own gain :D. 

I think Hetty and Pete might be muggles. If Hetty had a special ability she didn't use it to protect Alberta. I'm sure she didn't want Thomas to be a murderer.

[PaulE]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I keep trying to think of what Pete's or Hetty's ghost power might be, and what I want them to be. I want Hetty to have one she doesn't want to admit she has (because it's humbling)

Can you imagine if she had Isaac's power?  Now that would be hilarious!  If she weren't already dead it would absolutely kill her.

[chediavolo]

Is Sam pregnant in real life? 

[sharmar]

4 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Is Sam pregnant in real life? 

Yes.

[SmithW6079]

I thought last season set up Jay and Pete as friends, with their shared love of Dungeons and Dragons and basketball, but Pete seemed sidelined to the out-of-the-blue Jay/Sass friendship. 

I can't stand the cholera ghost, neither the character nor the actress. Why do shows always pick the most annoying, most abrasive characters to start giving bigger roles to?