Episode Discussion: Season 3 and Onward

[Raja]

21 minutes ago, christie said:

I think the issue wasn't that Eliot restrained Lucas but that he used a lot of force in restraining him which resulted in Lucas cracking his scull; it was the cracked skull that was the issue and not so much the restraining (at least that's how I see it). This is a tv thing anyway, we know that in the real world there would never be an inquiry.

I come from the other TV world of The Closer/Major Crimes when then Captain Raydor ran the Force Investigations section of LAPD's Internal Affairs. And there all uses of physical force called for an investigation as cops did not walk away to continue the case because X amount of minutes were left in an episode. With the real police department under a federal mandate I'm not saying the department and DA's office wouldn't decide that everything was justified and in policy after the investigation but the investigation itself, normally only shown on the special episode, brings a touch of realism

[pezgirl7]

4 hours ago, christie said:

There's snow outside and Eliot is grilling steaks in the yard whilst wearing a shirt and a vest - I don't think so.

I didn’t see anything implausible about that. I know plenty of people who grill out in the winter when the weather is mild here in the Midwest. And a large man standing in front of a hot grill probably wouldn’t be too cold. 

[cfinboston]

How much suspension of disbelief is needed here?

Why is Carisi here? How is he assigned these high level cases so quickly? He's prosecuted Sir Toby and Steve Getz and now a drug cartel large enough for federal witness protection?

The security detail for a family testifying against a drug cartel isn't comprised of federal agents or US Marshals, but rather Organized Crime + two random officers?

Nobody wears a bulletproof vest or has a backup magazine? Jet doesn't search the hired killers for any guns but just leaves the pistol for the son to grab.

The writing for Jet is awful. She doesn't need to offer her first name when introduced as "Detective" and shouldn't sneer "joy" when told she's guarding the kids. She's guarding federal witnesses, not being told she has to babysit her kid sister instead of going to the mall. 

Everyone in the L&O universe has a swanky apartment far beyond pay grade. I'm also annoyed that Eliot lives in an apparent ground flood unit with no security when he's worked on so many dangerous cases. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, cfinboston said:

How much suspension of disbelief is needed here?

Why is Carisi here? How is he assigned these high level cases so quickly? He's prosecuted Sir Toby and Steve Getz and now a drug cartel large enough for federal witness protection?

The security detail for a family testifying against a drug cartel isn't comprised of federal agents or US Marshals, but rather Organized Crime + two random officers?

Nobody wears a bulletproof vest or has a backup magazine? Jet doesn't search the hired killers for any guns but just leaves the pistol for the son to grab.

The writing for Jet is awful. She doesn't need to offer her first name when introduced as "Detective" and shouldn't sneer "joy" when told she's guarding the kids. She's guarding federal witnesses, not being told she has to babysit her kid sister instead of going to the mall. 

Everyone in the L&O universe has a swanky apartment far beyond pay grade. I'm also annoyed that Eliot lives in an apparent ground flood unit with no security when he's worked on so many dangerous cases. 

One good thing about this show is that it is more real world than the mothership as detectives work on other things when trials finally come up on previous cases. The bad thing is that the cases are not that memorable so as with Detective Bashir I was trying to think of who was raped as I thought Carisi was in a special unit of prosecutors to match the NYPD unit. 

They were defiantly calling out to the "agents" on guard to sign Detective Stabler out of the safe house. Why the inside last ditch guard unit of the case detectives go out to confront the boyfriend except they are the stars and get paid to talk/  Which again brought up Carisi and why not give another actor some work? And why were they just discussing WitSec?

Of course it is hard to find any TV character who is living within the means that most of us do. I get more annoyed at everybody living on their beat. As I stated before having Elliot be the first backup to arrive after Reyes put out alarms, help me to help you get this story over.

 

[wknt3]

14 hours ago, Raja said:

Even though they said Sergeant Bell was going to recover bringing in a fresh actor to take over as captain can reset the payroll counter with just Jet and Stabler getting seniority raises.

 But that would mean ditching one of the few things about the series that has worked from the beginning, And they aren't even to the 6th season and syndication where raises usually become an issue. So I don't see it happening unless it is part of the BTS turmoil that has lead to the constant retooling and characters shuffling in and out. If anything to save money they will let Stabler's family go back off screen and keep shuffling the blandly attractive and underwritten male detectives in and out.

[Xeliou66]

About the only thing I liked about this last episode was Carisi crossing over - nice continuity and it’s always nice to see more Carisi.

But my god Stabler’s family is as annoying as ever - I’ve always hated his whiny drama-filled kids, and his siblings are cut from the same cloth.

How did they not find the extra phone on the teen? And why were they still staying at their house, they should’ve stashed them in a hotel somewhere. Those kids were annoying too.

And it seemed odd that they went back to the drug dealers from the season premiere without fulling wrapping up the smuggling storyline from the past 2 episodes, some of it was wrapped up but they hadn’t brought down all of the people involved yet I don’t think. It makes the show seem disjointed when they bounce back and forth between storylines.

This show could be good but it lacks direction and the personal drama is so annoying. 

[Sake614]

6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

ll let Stabler's family go back off screen

While I find myself enjoying Meloni and Dean Morris, who do I have to beg to make this hapoen?

[The Wild Sow]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:01 PM, Sake614 said:

While I find myself enjoying Meloni and Dean Morris,

They're playing off each other pretty well!  But I still can't look at Dean Norris without seeing "Bad Guy" rapist Paul Scanlon (Lee's brother) from Medium.

Funny, Randall looks about 5 or 10 years older than Elliott but the actor is really a year or 2 younger than Meloni.

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

Randall looks about 5 or 10 years older than Elliott but the actor is really a year or 2 younger than Meloni.

Seriously? Dean Norris is younger than Chris Meloni? I’d never have guessed it!

[Raja]

Quote

Law & Order: Organized Crime Season 4 Episode 5 Missing Persons Airs February 22 2024 on NBC

Get ready for an intense and gripping episode of “Law & Order: Organized Crime” Season 4, Episode 5 titled “Missing Persons,” airing on NBC at 10:00 Pm on Thursday, February 22, 2024. In this thrilling installment, viewers will be plunged into a world of mystery and suspense as a rescued victim from Stabler’s past suddenly goes missing.

As Stabler and the team race against the clock to locate the missing victim, tensions run high and suspicions abound. Meanwhile, Bell finds herself recovering in the hospital, while Jet, Reyes, and Bashir face tough questions from Internal Affairs Bureau (Iab).

Amidst the chaos, Joe Jr. makes a surprising revelation about his new career path, leaving the team reeling from the unexpected twist. With the pressure mounting and time running out, Stabler and his colleagues must navigate through a web of deceit and betrayal to uncover the truth before it’s too late.

So we begin with an IAB detective who cuts off a witness who wants to talk to him as if the fix is in. How tough he will be remains to be seen. Some family drama, my son, no my little brother is doing heroin. 

To  Stabler as a pro bono P.I. during the suspension and pulling the office civilian in for support. In the end we find a serial killer over the state line due to a sex worker deciding that New York pays more than London in her line of work since Law & Order: UK never crossed over and is out of production anyway.

[KittenPokerCheater]

So this season is at least partly inspired by the Gilgo Beach Murders.

[Raja]

52 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

So this season is at least partly inspired by the Gilgo Beach Murders.

Ripped from the headlines, I  wonder why that's not in the promos?

[StaceyNotStacie]

This was an interesting episode. Although I missed Bell being in charge, I enjoyed the dynamic between Elliot and the younger cops, especially in the hotel. I was waiting for him to comment that he somehow acquired three extra kids. 
 

On another note, I wish they would trim Elliot’s beard a bit. It’s a bit too bushy IMO. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

S04•E05 - Missing Persons

You can take Elliot Stabler out of SVU but you cannot take SVU out of him. Am glad he doesn’t wear Rita Lasku’s friendship bracelet to prove his determination in finding her. 😆

Geez Elliot, stop licking stuff that you found in the bathroom’s bin. Yuck.

The IAB officer is asking all the wrong questions. It’s ridiculous that they’re not holding Jet responsible for failing to search the perp properly.

The motel scene is the funniest. From the moment Elliot sees them all together in the room to Elliot catches them trying to follow him, and Elliot telling them to stay put, twice. Their guilty faces are hilarious! 😂

A compelling performance by Chris Meloni in the sequence where he finds Christine alive in the bunker to the gruesome discovery of Rita’s body.

The discovery of more bodies at the beach reminds me of SVU’s Yates episode (crossover with Chicago PD) many years ago.

Is Chief Bonner dirty? We have seen her at an illegal poker game.

That journalist who recognizes Elliot in the diner, is he the abductor/killer? 🤨

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

The discovery of more bodies at the beach reminds me of SVU’s Yates episode (crossover with Chicago PD) many years ago.

Is Chief Bonner dirty? We have seen her at an illegal poker game.

That journalist who recognizes Elliot in the diner, is he the abductor/killer?

I also flashed to the Yates murder, but I guess the RL Gilgo Beach case is probably more likely.

is the reporter tall/strong enough to carry the girls as far as he did? And where would he get a sports car? I guess it’s certainly possible. I still think the DA is at least partially involved. He was at the house (or was it his house?) and offered to give Rita a tour. 
 

my question is, what makes this an OCCB case? Unless it turns out to be mob connected. And even then, it’s not within the confines of nyc. If anything, I think it would be a federal case. Unless Liv pulls some strings and somehow it magically becomes NYPD’s jurisdiction 🙄

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

my question is, what makes this an OCCB case? Unless it turns out to be mob connected. And even then, it’s not within the confines of nyc. If anything, I think it would be a federal case. Unless Liv pulls some strings and somehow it magically becomes NYPD’s jurisdiction 🙄

At the moment nothing except she was involved with Detective Stabler on a prior case. Her suspected kidnapping and the murder is a New York case. Taking her across state lines can get the FBI and US Attorney to take over if they wish. But there remains the crime against the people of New York if the Feds can't make a case or defer to the state. And right now the other kidnapping and three murders are Connecticut cases. 

As it seems as if all OCCB is doing at the moment is preparing to testify while waiting for IAB to clear Detective Stabler and Sergeant Bell to return to duty they are free to help Homicide or Major  Case

[edhopper]

Some geography. NYC and Long Island are both in New  York. No State lines. But OCCB is New York City and has no jurisdiction on Long Island. No matter who is involved. This would never be an NYPD case.

[Sake614]

8 hours ago, edhopper said:

Some geography. NYC and Long Island are both in New  York. No State lines. But OCCB is New York City and has no jurisdiction on Long Island. No matter who is involved. This would never be an NYPD case.

Exactly! Long Island is not nyc. They have their own police. If the Westbrook police are corrupt then the state troopers could step in. But not the NYPD. 

[cfinboston]

6 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Exactly! Long Island is not nyc. They have their own police. If the Westbrook police are corrupt then the state troopers could step in. But not the NYPD. 

The Universe has never cared much for jurisdiction or geography. The OG 27 investigated homicides everywhere in the City. SVU and Major Case both get cases that would never be assigned to those squads. Organized Crime is already an NYPD Department, it was Rey Curtis's previous squad. The "Task Force" as a unit makes little sense. 

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, cfinboston said:

The Universe has never cared much for jurisdiction or geography. The OG 27 investigated homicides everywhere in the City. SVU and Major Case both get cases that would never be assigned to those squads. Organized Crime is already an NYPD Department, it was Rey Curtis's previous squad. The "Task Force" as a unit makes little sense. 

As I understood it the NYPD reorganized and cut the OCCB. In that way a "temporary" task force under the not so ordinary Sergeant Bell makes some kind of real world sense 

[Sake614]

Major Case I can understand.  I don’t think there are borough offices but rather one major crimes unit. OG 27 went where the crime was but within the confines of NYC. I don’t recall them going to LI or Westchester without at least getting the locals involved. That seems to be reserved for St. Olivia at SVU.

[preeya]

22 hours ago, Sake614 said:

That seems to be reserved for St. Olivia at SVU.

This ↑ and the voice message left for Stabler means she'll likely be inserting herself very soon. That said, get your barf buckets ready.

Edited February 25 by preeya

[Sake614]

19 minutes ago, preeya said:

the voice message left for Stabler

Ugh. I think my mind intentionally blocked that. 🤮

[Tachi Rocinante]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:35 PM, edhopper said:

Some geography. NYC and Long Island are both in New  York. No State lines. But OCCB is New York City and has no jurisdiction on Long Island. No matter who is involved. This would never be an NYPD case.

Which is probably one of the reasons why the Bonner was so offended.

[preeya]

Who is the actor who played Eric Bonner?

[Raja]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:35 PM, edhopper said:

Some geography. NYC and Long Island are both in New  York. No State lines. But OCCB is New York City and has no jurisdiction on Long Island. No matter who is involved. This would never be an NYPD case.

Except the first victim was suspected of being kidnapped in New York City, or was that club where she was picked up on Long Island?

 

7 hours ago, preeya said:

Who is the actor who played Eric Bonner?

Keith Carradine, little brother and son  of the more famous of his  acting family. My mistake wrong Bonner.

Maybe The Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire, Will Janowitz.

 

Edited March 1 by Raja

[preeya]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Maybe The Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire, Will Janowitz.

Thank you, now I can place the face. He played Meadow's boyfriend (Finn DeTrolio) on The Sopranos.

Edited March 1 by preeya

[Snazzy Daisy]

S04•E06 - Beyond The Sea

Theory time! The perp is the reporter who knows Elliot’s name. He hates Bonnersville. He’s framing Eric Bonner for all the murders and Judge Clay Bonner will do everything to cover all up. The town’s corruption and abuse of power will be exposed.

Is Bobby Reyes going on leave of absence part of the show’s cost-cutting strategy? If yes, then get rid of Kyle Vargas and Sam Bashir instead. Their absence won’t affect the show.

I hope Rick Gonzalez isn’t being written off the show. First, they minimize his role, and now he’s gone/benched? They already got rid of Brent Antonello for shock/trauma values. UGH.

This IAB guy is worst than Ed Tucker. Geez. Bringing up Elliot’s dad into this investigation is just silly. Does he has a personal vendetta against Elliot etc? Why dragging this subplot more than it needs to be?

 

Elliot: “I’m not a profiler.”

Me: “Please don’t call Rollins!” x1000

🤣🤣🤣

[Xeliou66]

This serial killer storyline is one of the best storylines this show has done. Very gripping stuff. So I’m guessing the chief’s brother/judge’s son is the serial killer and the judge murdered the DA and framed him for the murders. I’m looking forward to seeing how they wrap this up - and I can’t wait to see Don Cragen again in the next episode, one of my favorites!! 

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

This serial killer storyline is one of the best storylines this show has done. Very gripping stuff. So I’m guessing the chief’s brother/judge’s son is the serial killer and the judge murdered the DA and framed him for the murders. I’m looking forward to seeing how they wrap this up - and I can’t wait to see Don Cragen again in the next episode, one of my favorites!! 

I went a step further in that the brother/son was second generation killer. 

So far we had a DA who looked the other way if his party favors got extra for sexual services and a judge who it seems knows his son is a killer. I guess the public corruption even if outside New York City is the "Organized Crime". But the  they still are not doing anything but preparing to testify with Detective Reyes taking leave for the office of even doing that.

Chief Bonner taking Detective Stabler on as a consultant makes sense as they are portrayed as a break up bar fights level police force.  Neither the Medical Examiner or the Chief as the detective notices the Christian iconography the killer used on his victims. With a full on serial killer dumpsite though you would ask where is the State Police, or the County Sheriff in my area, as the specialist to take over from the local police  in over their experience level.

[faithie]

I've come to realize that Reyes and Velasco from SVU are essentially the same guy.  You could switch actors and barely notice.  Brooding, short-tempered Latino with a sketchy adolescence that seems less than law-abiding.  Impulsive behavior lands him on desk duty.

[Medicine Crow]

It was good to see Keith Carradine back on TV!!

[Badger]

He was on a show called "Accused" last year too.  I hadn't seen him in years so I was thrilled.

[MarylandGirl]

On 3/2/2024 at 9:47 AM, Raja said:

I went a step further in that the brother/son was second generation killer. 

So far we had a DA who looked the other way if his party favors got extra for sexual services and a judge who it seems knows his son is a killer. I guess the public corruption even if outside New York City is the "Organized Crime". But the  they still are not doing anything but preparing to testify with Detective Reyes taking leave for the office of even doing that.

Chief Bonner taking Detective Stabler on as a consultant makes sense as they are portrayed as a break up bar fights level police force.  Neither the Medical Examiner or the Chief as the detective notices the Christian iconography the killer used on his victims. With a full on serial killer dumpsite though you would ask where is the State Police, or the County Sheriff in my area, as the specialist to take over from the local police  in over their experience level.

Really, the FBI should be called in for something like that, I'd think.

Also, won't they be really short on detectives with Stabler suspended and Reyes on leave? I know there's the new guy but, well, he's a new guy. Plus Bell recovering

Edited March 10 by MarylandGirl
Added Bell

[MerBearHou]

I haven’t been a devoted L&O:OC watcher ever since the overwrought Wheatley storyline, but this one is good!  The powerful, dysfunctional wealthy family semi-running their affluent small town; Keith Carradine who is always compelling; I like Meredith, the police chief; and the two doozies at the end of tonight’s episode.  To be continued, but I’m intrigued.  Happy to see Captain Cragen again!  And I have to add how much I enjoy watching Jett — she is so unique and talented and has great instincts.  

[cfinboston]

Jet's eye makeup should likely have its own guest star credits. WAY over the top.

How the hell do they get away with just setting up a satellite office in Elliott's apartment? Does their acting captain not wonder where her detectives are or what cases they're working on?

I loved Elliot not remembering AI guy's first name. Speaking of him, I understand we all need to accept some artistic license but the scene where they're looking for the church and Elliot suggested searching on "churches with choir practices" was ridiculous.

Where is Bell's kid? He's just Chuck Cunningham'ed right out of there.

Why did Bell have to secretly meet with Cragen? He's retired. They don't need to meet in secret, he can just call or visit her. It looked like unnecessary dramatic effect.

When did you last see chloroform? It's like 1970's crime drama redux. 

Lastly, how did Eric carry a passed out Stabler into a church and bind him up? 

 

[Xeliou66]

Good episode, this may be my favorite storyline OC has done, I’ve watched it on and off, the ridiculous Wheatley storyline soured me on the show, but this was good. I liked how they zeroed in on the killer and it was intense seeing the police chief have to kill her brother to save Stabler. Awesome to see Cragen again even for just one scene - I hope next week Cragen and Stabler share the screen. I suspected something was up with the IAB investigation, since it was clearly a justifiable use of force by Stabler given that the suspect had just shot Bell. I look forward to seeing the fallout from this case and what happens next week, I’m sure the judge killed his wife and that’s what started his son into becoming a serial killer. Look forward to seeing how it plays out and seeing Cragen again. 
I also thought it was strange how the whole squad was pretty much sitting around Stabler’s living room. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

S04•E07 - Original Sin

The exciting part of this episode is when the Dexter wannabe starts unbuttoning zaddy Stabler! More lights please. 🔥🤣

Chief Meredith Bonner is really not good at being a cop, 💯 a nepo baby. 

Making Eric Bonner the perp is kind of straightforward. I was expecting a twist that never came. 😣

So, Clay Bonner the crooked judge (aka Penny’s dad in TBBT) killed his wife and buried her in the dune. Why?

Elliot’s suspension storyline is getting ridiculous. Why an IAB officer is permitted to sit in Elliot’s psych evaluation? Someone needs to report that IAB guy with a grudge to IAB, now. I want more of Captain Cragen, please.

Does Captain Shah not care about Jet, Sam and Kyle whereabouts when they aren’t in office?

The heroin in foil that Stabler found in his bathroom could belong to Joe Jr because of his connection to Kandahar. Eli’s gf went to the bathroom at one point, so it could hers as well.

[christie]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked how they zeroed in on the killer and it was intense seeing the police chief have to kill her brother to save Stabler. 

I hated that; it just seemed so cliched to me and, as always happens in American tv series, she went for the kill; she couldn't stop him charging at her by shooting his leg? And then Eliott telling her that she didn't have a choice; no, she did, she chose to kill. I agree with everything else that you've written though; I especially liked seeing Cragen again.

I realise that they needed something so as to get Sam away and have Eliott show up but no pregnant woman who has been put on bed rest is going to be lifting heavy baskets of laundry.

[preeya]

Can someone enlighten me on what these episodes have to do with Organized Crime? Also, why isn't this being investigated by the FBI?

 

ETA:  They could easily transfer this to FBI: Most Wanted and have Remy and Co. drive to Long Island.  🤣

Edited March 16 by preeya

[preeya]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:30 AM, cfinboston said:

Lastly, how did Eric carry a passed out Stabler into a church and bind him up? 

He said he used a wheelbarrow to get him into the church. How he managed to get him tied to the mock crucifix is another story.

[tvfanatic13]

Really liking this storyline. And the guy who played Keith Carradine’s son really looks like him. Great casting. 

[torqy]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:30 AM, cfinboston said:

Jet's eye makeup should likely have its own guest star credits. WAY over the top.

 

 

I can't help but think of Joan Jett when I see Jet. Some meta inside joke?

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, torqy said:

I can't help but think of Joan Jett when I see Jet. Some meta inside joke?

Maybe you just love rock 'n' roll?

[KittenPokerCheater]

I’m thinking next year Jet’s eyeliner should be nominated for a Tubey of some kind because it’s practically its own character.

 

[The Wild Sow]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:30 AM, cfinboston said:

Lastly, how did Eric carry a passed out Stabler into a church and bind him up? 

 

He told us/Stabler — Wheelbarrow!

[Xeliou66]

Good conclusion to the case, even if it was somewhat far fetched and melodramatic with the police chief arresting her dad and all. Great to see Cragen again and I loved how him and Stabler got the upper hand on the attackers at the diner, cool to see Cragen get back in the action and nice to see him and Stabler interact again. I liked this storyline and everything was wrapped up well. I’m not looking forward to more Stabler family drama though with his drug addict brother, what a shitshow Stabler’s family is. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

S04•E08 - Sins of Our Fathers

Captain Cragen is GOAT! 💪🏼

Kudos to the current showrunner - John Shiban for bringing CC back for 2 episodes. 👏🏻

Ayanna has been seen limping in her earlier scenes. But after she’s finished with the IAB guy, she carries her cane and walks out, no more limping. It must be the adrenaline…😆

“Your dad was a dirty cop.”

“Your dad killed himself. Here’s the quilt that I made for you.”

😳😳😳

Elliot Stabler is officially traumatized‼️

[The Wild Sow]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:42 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I liked this storyline and everything was wrapped up well. I’m not looking forward to more Stabler family drama though with his drug addict brother, what a shitshow Stabler’s family is. 

I'm starting to kind of like Randall though!  I no longer just see him as "oh no, it's Lee Scanlon's bad-guy-rapist-brother-Paul  from Medium."

[Snazzy Daisy]

S04•E09 - Semper Fi

That ending with Elliot on the back of the truck! Am still not getting over Jamie’s death and now they kill Sam Bashir too? And Elliot is forced to take him to the “train station”??! 😢

Angus and Mama Boone are running a criminal enterprise disguised as a cult. Both Stephen Lang and Lois Smith have some memorable storylines in SVU.

It’s good to have Bobby Reyes back. Bobby and Jet posing as travel influencers just to send a message to Elliot is hilarious. 😂

Every time their case takes a dark turn, Ayanna will try to pull UC Elliot out. She’s obviously still traumatized by Gina Cappelletti’s death. Deep down, she knows that Elliot will disobey her order. Every single time.

Randall punches a birthdate of “1989” on the safe. Is Joe Jr. around the same age as Elliot’s children?

Bernie's scenes with Randall and Joe Jr. are heartbreaking. Her pain, her confusion, all is too real. 💔

I read on X that this show hires real disabled combat veterans for episodes 9 and 10. That’s inspiring and commendable.