S25.E02: Truth Embargo

[txhorns79]

Airing January 25, 2024.

Quote

As Benson teams up with the FBI on an unsolved case, Fin and Velasco investigate a flash mob robbery that lead to a sexual assault.

 

[dttruman]

Why is the squad claiming the victim saw her rapist in the changing room? Maybe she was looking away when he walked in and then pulled down his mask? I don't know how Benson can judge her like that? Why are they making the press look bad and not the prosecuting attorneys in NYC, who let these criminals off?

[dttruman]

I got a feeling Benson is going to give an uplifting speech to this rape victim, when she froze on the witness stand. I wonder why no one had the common sense to ask the victim, there is a chance if you don't testify, he will probably rape again. The self confession at the end that he just did it for attention seems very forced by the writers inconsistent way to end this episode.

 

Edited January 26 by dttruman

[jmonique]

It's so weird because you know what I was totally thinking before this week's ep? The thing this show really needs on top of St. Oliva is totally White Savior Guilt! 

Sigh.

[gesundheit]

Good grief, this episode. SVU proudly taking up the "wokeness has gone too far!" mantle. Embarrassing.

Of course they try to do an episode focused on race and are afraid to put Fin in it after it took that turn. Instead, it was Olivia who could speak on it the most wisely! Because of course!

And I'm already sick to death of the Maddie thread. This is going to be insufferable all season.

[preeya]

Season 25: Law & Order SVU: Maddie!

[Xeliou66]

An okay episode, but once again an interesting idea gets bogged down in Benson worship. Benson acted like a loon at the start, running and opening a van door, once again proving that she’s unfit to be a police captain. Add in yet another Benson speaks to the victim and convinces them to testify scene, which has been done a million times it seems, and Benson just dragged down the episode with the usual crap designed to make her look like a saint. 
The victim was kind of annoying me as well - the rapist didn’t deserve any sympathy, and the ending was just painful to get through with Benson having to give one of her speeches to get the victim to testify.

Carisi was good in court, I’ll say that, always nice when we get court scenes.

Bruno was solid as always, I liked him and Carisi in the interrogation room, wish they would bump Bruno up to main credits already. Fin and Velasco were solid as well. The episode just took a nosedive at the end when it became St Olivia giving a sermon to the victim. And like others I’m beyond sick of the Maddie storyline which will apparently last all season.

I liked the case and the basic idea of a mob robbery leading to rape, and every character not named St Olivia was good, but once again a solid storyline gets dragged down by Benson crap. It’s the story of modern day SVU.

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The victim was kind of annoying me as well - the rapist didn’t deserve any sympathy, and the ending was just painful to get through with Benson having to give one of her speeches to get the victim to testify.

Seriously. I’m for social justice as much as the next person, but someone rapes me (or anyone else) they get none of my pity.

And I’m just gonna say it, the fact that they did nothing while those assholes crashed the police station IS COMPLETELY UNBELIEVABLE. If that happened in real life, someone would have the very least be tazed.

Edited January 26 by Spartan Girl

[wknt3]

The Good:
Carisi. After being largely wasted last week he got some good stuff this week. Including being the only one in the courtroom scenes to actually understand what the job of the system was.

The squad outside of Benson. They did not get enough time so we could focus on how the world revolves around Liv, but the little we got was pretty good.

The ending. They did a pretty good job of polishing this turd, plus it meant that this slog was over.

The perp and defense attorney. It's a shame that these good performances were wasted, but they made things more tolerable and I hope the actors get more work in better shows based on this.

The Bad:
Benson, Benson, Benson. It's like they vaguely remember some of the great episodes of the early years and are trying to recreate it, while forgetting that one of the things that made them great was that the acting, direction, and story made it clear that that the detectives were human and even sometimes WRONG. What we saw on screen was an overworked and traumatized investigator on the verge of a breakdown, but we were being told we are seeing a noble martyr. And a terrible leader as well- Cragen or Van Buren would have their officers create a perimeter and wait for the backup to arrest everyone instead of making speeches calling for nonviolence while watching their squadroom get trashed.

The victim. The only way to make Benson look reasonable and wait is to create a portrait of White Liberal Guilt that Fox News would think was completey over the top and unrealistic.

The Maddie storyline. It was bad enough last week, but worse that it was dragging down an episode that already had enough problems of it's own.

Benson again. Special mention for the terrible acting and writing at the end when we were supposed to believe that her whispered words of wisdom saved the day. Let it be Liv, let it be.

Overall this was a decent idea for the COTW bogged down by Benson worship and Mariska's ego and scenery gumming (she tried to chew the scenery, but couldn't pull it off). It was like a bad attempt at self parody. A B- idea with D- execution (and D- only because of great work by the main cast outside of Mariska along with the perp and his lawyer) and a subplot that was even worse. At least we know that the writers' room followed all of the strike rules. It's obvious nobody was doing any work or even thinking about plots and story during the hiatus!

Edited January 26 by wknt3

[DanielleBowden]

So, we’re supposed to empathize with a rapist?  Great, he took accountability, throw the book at him. Sexual assault is ridiculously underreported and under sentenced with the victim being traumatized again and a-fuckin-gain. But, now, if  he’s  feeling unseen and says sorry…. My god, what an episode.   Of all the ways they could have done a racial injustice story, this was not it.

[Spartan Girl]

Maybe Olivia being so obsessed about Maddy wouldn’t grate as much if she was being harassed by Maddy’s mom. At least that would help make more sense, or at least make it less obvious that the writing is on a “St Liv taking it personally” kick.

[jmonique]

I can't believe how New York's supposed elite sexual assault investigative unit contains only one female, highlighted in this episode by how she was the only one who even knew about the liners in swimsuits.

So let me get this straight: Two cops are standing in front of a teenager making off with a laptop in a police station, and since he's a teenager, just ... let him go? Don't even cuff him, because: St. Olivia?

Another thing I've never understood about SVU: While St. Olivia is off ministering to This Week's Waffling Vic in court ... is there really nothing happening back at the squadroom that the captain of a severely understaffed unit could be attending to?

Edited January 26 by jmonique

[Shelbie]

13 hours ago, preeya said:

Season 25: Law & Order SVU: Maddie!

They could change the title to :

Law and Order SMU : Special Maddie Unit.

[Andyourlittledog2]

My God, who writes this crap?

Poor little rapist was only 18, getting convicted could change his life!  Well, yeah!  He didn't just stumble on her and decide to see what happens, he chased her into the dressing room and decided to rape her. That is not just some phase of adolescence, that's a seriously warped criminal mind at work. And he'll do it again if he's not stopped. That's how it works. There is always a first time. He's not a little boy who made a mistake here. This whole, they are just babies, don't anybody do anything about their serious criminal behavior is just ridiculous. Leave it to this show to take this tack. I am pretty progressive and all for less draconian responses to minor criminal behavior in the very young but come on!   The victim conflating her foster brother stealing gum with a guy who raped her doesn't even pass the smell test.

I was raped by a young man (early twenties) who had a terrible history and intellectually I felt bad for him. Honestly. I still can't help but hope he's okay doing his long stretch in prison right now. But the only thing on my mind from the minute I had a chance to call 911 was to catch him and get him off the streets because he was gonna do this to someone else if I didn't. That was the most important thing and still is to me:  do what you can to make this stop and not happen for someone else. And frankly, the younger someone is when they start this type of sexual violence the worse the outlook is for them changing tack. They don't just start with rape, they work up to it. The idea that he was just a kid, stuff happens, he's sorry, he won't do it again, etc just doesn't fit with what we know about sexual offenders. 

Aside from all of that, I was overwhelmed with disappointment when the episode started off with Benson's idiotic run. They are going to do this to us all season, aren't they? 

[wknt3]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:39 PM, preeya said:

Season 25: Law & Order SVU: Maddie!

 

10 hours ago, Shelbie said:

They could change the title to :

Law and Order SMU : Special Maddie Unit.

Nah - Law & Order SBU: Special Benson Unit. Market research indicates that 58% of viewers wouldn't even notice!

[Iguessnot]

This was so bad I could have cried. I get that Olivia feels some kind a way about Maddie, but it's insulting that some of Olivia's dialogue makes this case seem like a unicorn. 

The victim and her girlfriend were acting so sketchy that I thought they had some connection to the rampage. We are introduced to her interview saying "I was shopping? And she had no idea how she got in the stockroom. Then Bruno says the magic words "what's the last thing you remember" and she runs down the whole story. There's a difference between catching one's breath to recount a story, and buried trauma AKA Sybil. Stop having victims declare they don't remember when they clearly do. As usual when Benson asked Natalie for characteristics of the perp, Natalie said she needed to see Brooke, and the interview was over. Benson is a cop who needs to get this info ASAP. As a specially trained SVU detective, show me how you compassionately get info out of a reluctant victim. 

How does a wayward hygiene liner have his DNA but nothing else? He wasn't wearing a condom in this impromptu attack so that makes no sense.

The smash and grab at the precinct and worrying about the rapist getting a fair trial sealed the deal.

[Spartan Girl]

Note to the writers: this is NOT the way to fix copaganda.

[cfinboston]

Whoever thought SVU would have a scene where the victim's wife was up all night crying about structural racism and not her wife getting raped.  

Agreed on the liner, it magically had DNA but not the victim or anywhere else in the room?

Smaller plot holes, but during a smash and grab it made no sense to stop and commit a rape. In the time it would take the store could be locked down. Additionally, why remove his mask? Why show the victim your face?

The cops mention that the leader who took the video had a juvenile record. Wouldn't that have been sealed since he was an adult?

It seems a bit of overkill that a kid spent the night in juvenile hall for stealing a pack of gum. NY has enough crime that they're not imprisoning a kid for one pack of gum. This is overthinking it but if she and the foster kid were arrested together, the police would know he was part of a white family and treated him accordingly.

Lastly, WTF was up with Liv running to her office after the attack on the precinct to check on her photo of Maddie. Was that really the primary worry? 

 

 

[DanielleBowden]

Where was the liner? In evidence but not tested? Or just thrown out and then retrieved and tested? The wife and victim’s angst and reluctance might have made more sense if there was some element of doubt.  Either, she couldn’t positively ID him or he was brought in under dubious circumstances or treated unfairly. If they wanted a season arc and explore bias, unconscious and overt, they could have made Maddie a missing Black or Brown girl. Underrepresentation of cases on missing Black and Brown women and girls is well documented.  The smash and grab at the police station was so dumb. Liv yelling they’re just teenagers and for the one cop to put down her weapon, then sighing, where’s my backup. They’re right there, but you’re yelling at them to stop. 

[txhorns79]

34 minutes ago, DanielleBowden said:

The smash and grab at the police station was so dumb. Liv yelling they’re just teenagers and for the one cop to put down her weapon, then sighing, where’s my backup. They’re right there, but you’re yelling at them to stop. 

It was ridiculous.  Even if Liv was right in that the whole thing was just a stunt by stupid teenagers, she didn't actually know that for a fact at the time.  Telling the uniform to put down their weapon could have gotten someone shot or killed.  

 

13 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

The victim and her girlfriend were acting so sketchy that I thought they had some connection to the rampage.

I thought the same.  I suppose what really happened is they were on a schedule and didn't have time for a better take, or the actors just weren't that great.    

[Sake614]

So a NYC police captain lives in a doorman building on 5th Ave right across the street from Central Psrk? And has lived there since before she even made Sgt? Yeah okay.

this whole Maddie thing is beyond stupid. What about all the other missing girls in NYC? Do they not deserve justice as well? Or are they just faces on the side of a milk carton? Does Maddie’s mother know Liv is wearing the kid’s bracelet? Wouldn’t the mother want that? Honestly if this is going to be a theme for the entire season, I don’t think I can stand it.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

 Does Maddie’s mother know Liv is wearing the kid’s bracelet? Wouldn’t the mother want that? Honestly if this is going to be a theme for the entire season, I don’t think I can stand it.

Olivia is not wearing Maddie's bracelet.  That would be evidence.  It's worse, Olivia is wearing a bracelet from one of the Maddie sex dolls.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Olivia is not wearing Maddie's bracelet.  That would be evidence.  It's worse, Olivia is wearing a bracelet from one of the Maddie sex dolls.

Ew.

[Sake614]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Olivia is wearing a bracelet from one of the Maddie sex dolls.

AYFKMWTS? That’s just disgusting!
 

?

[Wizardpatch]

I couldn't help wishing that an old school Law and Order character like Mike Logan or Stabler pre-2005 had been at the police station to give some flash mob dorks a good beating.

[cfinboston]

8 hours ago, DanielleBowden said:

If they wanted a season arc and explore bias, unconscious and overt, they could have made Maddie a missing Black or Brown girl. Underrepresentation of cases on missing Black and Brown women and girls is well documented. 

Terrific point. It's typical of the wokesters to miss such an obvious plot idea. They literally make a rape victim hesitant to testify against her attacker because he's black, but it never occurred to them to have made Maddie black. 

[DanielleBowden]

11 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

old school Law and Order character like Mike Logan or Stabler pre-2005

My first thought was Lennie Briscoe is spinning in his grave.

[bluegirl147]

This is one of the worst episodes I have ever watched and I have seen every episode.

The victim and her wife were more concerned about the rapist's future than any future victims he might rape. As @Spartan Girl said social justice is important but this was a rapist.  This wasn't some kid who got stopped by police for walking while black. 

 

[Zaffy]

I have questions....

A. Mariska seems quite a smart lady and she is the star of the show.
Why on earth she accepts/tolerates such abysmal writing?

B. There are a bazillion of cases where young (or not) black people are sentenced and have their lives ruined for small crimes, like driving violations, just because they are black. But here we have a sexual crime.. you do not do this because you had a bad day/moment. "I raped her cause I wanted to feel somebody"? Um..... DUH?

C. Why Captain Benson goes out to arrest people? Every time we are in the precinct  we see dozens of people walking around, so they are not short handed, why they do not go out to do the arrests?  which leads me to..

D. That's it... I can't take it anymore.... Saint Olivia is a thing and it is killing my brain cells. I know we are in the 25th season and they need to find new stories and I know it is TV and it is only fiction... but in reality Benson, after so much character abuse, she should had been retired or being locked into an asylum instead of  running SVU.

E. In the next "Maddie" mention I will start grabbing hostages..

F. Why I am watching this for 25years now? What is wrong with me? Do I suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

See you next week!! 😆

 

 

Edited January 28 by Zaffy

[dttruman]

22 hours ago, Sake614 said:

AYFKMWTS

You can't get anymore succinct than that!

[slowpoked]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:36 PM, txhorns79 said:

It was ridiculous.  Even if Liv was right in that the whole thing was just a stunt by stupid teenagers, she didn't actually know that for a fact at the time.  Telling the uniform to put down their weapon could have gotten someone shot or killed.  

I couldn't believe this scene. The SVU captain just undermined her entire police force in front of these criminals! If anyone had to stand down, it should be that criminal with the police laptop in his hands, not the responding officer. See how brave the punk was even though he had a gun pointed at him? Usually at that point you would expect him to drop the laptop and raise his hands, but St. Benson had to intervene and let the boy go.

I understand there are systemic inequities in our law enforcement and justice system, but sexual assault isn't it. This episode sends a terrible message to sexual assault victims. And I have zero sympathy to these smash and grabs punks, regardless of whether they're only teenagers or not, because my husband was victimized by one.

[Cotypubby]

Oh thank god the forums are back so I can say how utterly terrible and gross this episode was! This was one of the worst hours of TV I have ever watched in my life.

This episode seriously seemed like it was a parody written by someone at Fox News. “White liberals are so woke that they don’t think Black people should go to jail for rape! They think cops should let gangs of criminals ransack their squad room and steal evidence with no consequences! Look how terrible these liberals are!!”

What an absolutely bizarre episode.

[tennisgurl]

Some mom at Noah's school: "What a cute bracelet! Is Maddy your older daughter, a niece?" 

Olivia: "I took it off of a sex doll that looks like a missing teenage girl who I probably saw for two seconds and I now wear the bracelet to remind myself of my shame as I chase around every painted van in New York screaming the girls name while caressing the bracelet like a serial killer wearing a trophy."

Other Mom: "...." 

This episode was so awful and so batshit insane, truly a masterclass in not understanding not only social justice but people in general, but Olivia wearing Maddy's sex doll bracelet was truly the most fucked up thing I have seen in this show in ages. She doesn't need an after work drink, she needs a therapist.

[Spartan Girl]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

She doesn't need an after work drink, she needs a therapist.

Which might actually salvage the storyline if it finally drills it into Liv’s overinflated head that she is not the patron saint of all victims. The story could’ve actually worked if seeing Maddy didn’t trigger Liv’s “victim sense”, if she just happened to glance at her and didn’t think anything of it. Then her guilt might feel more understandable and serve to teach her said lesson that she can’t save everyone. But that ain’t gonna happen.

Edited February 6 by Spartan Girl

[wknt3]

On 2/6/2024 at 10:19 AM, tennisgurl said:

She doesn't need an after work drink, she needs a therapist.

Just came across this again. Truly a reminder that when it comes to this show to be careful what you wish for...