S13.E04: Hellevator

[Stats Queen]

3 hours ago, Slakkie said:

Fortum and Mason tea is the best tea around.  The fact that she drinks Lipton tells me she literally has no taste.  I got hooked on their tea when I was in the UK and now have to buy it and ship over to the US.  Yes it is that good.

Kyle is just always now looking for a fight.  Its getting on my nerves. 

I like good tea, and Lipton is not on my list. 
Kyle doesn’t pass up a single moment to belittle Sutton. Kyle’s taste in tea and friends makes me give her the side eye.

Absolutely nothing wrong with liking Lipton tea. My parent’s like Franzia wine from the box, I do not. We don’t judge each others palates.

[Cosmocrush]

4 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

It's always going to be a lose, lose for Sutton. And it's only going to cause more anxiety cause imagine having a moment and then panicking over whether it's going to be noticed, picked apart and turned into a weapon against you? Sutton is always going to be on edge because even her coping mechanisms bother the women and are called out as plot devices to further Suttons "me moment". Like uggggghhhh!

I'm not sure Sutton cares what they think or minds it that much; she's signed up for another season after last year.

Seems to me she probably has experience with asshole behavior; didn't her husband give her divorce papers on her birthday? 

 

20 minutes ago, Slakkie said:

Crystal confirmed that she is closest with Sutton and then Garcelle and that the three of them do a lot of stuff off season together.  She also said Kathy was the reason she came on the show so I think that side of the group is closer and the rest of FFF are a group although I don't see Erika hanging with the other two off season.

I'd bet Erika doesn't hang out with anyone that isn't on her payroll.   Has she ever even mentioned an off-the-show friend?

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

So if I am a good Catholic, like Erika, God will arrange for a divine intervention, allowing me to retaliate for all the shi- -y things someone has done to me, such as offer to let me borrow money. 

[princelina]

7 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

still "has anxiety".??? hmmmmm.

It always amazes me the liberty some take in deciding whether someone's struggle is either A) authentic and/or B) legit. Like it needs to be proven. So I guess her "anxiety" isn't legit to some but I'm always left to wonder who is anyone to make that call? It's soooooo weird to me. 

 

I don't mind "owning it" (😃) and explaining - for starters I'm surrounded by a lot of boys crying wolf in my real life, and I've given Sutton the side-eye since she showed up on a boat trip with a face roller in her pocket just in case anyone started an anxiety-producing conversation with her 🙄. (For the record I was on her side during that argument with Crystal, and I felt she overplayed her hand). IMO it was a silly, attention-grabbing move, and since it hasn't happened again I'm comfortable making the judgment that she was showing off on tv.  Especially since she did not seem to feel any anxiety swanning into Kyle's original dinner party, sneering at her lack of place cards and calling Teddy boring.  She did not seem to feel anxiety when she pulled out the proof that Rinna was lying about the Elton John mess.  She stood up to Erika and Rinna over the years without this "anxiety".  But when she went to a strip club hoping to make some moves and got ignored as soon as the dancers entered their box, gave lap dances to some of the others - where's a girl's face roller when she needs it? 😂  If she were a friend of mine or someone I knew I'd be interested in talking to her and getting her take on things, but if she lied to me like she lied on WWHL I'd be giving her the side-eye again.  If her struggle is real she should get off the show, but she doesn't, which tells me her desire to be on tv overrides whatever "anxiety" she feels.  If I saw someone being treated in real life the way she is treated I'd care, even if I thought she was full of crap, but it's not real life and she keeps signing on to take it, so the amount I care is limited to my ability to watch these women on tv, judge them and make fun of them here 😁

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

I'm not sure Sutton cares what they think or minds it that much; she's signed up for another season after last year.

Seems to me she probably has experience with asshole behavior; didn't her husband give her divorce papers on her birthday? 

I believe so. I know they were childhood sweethearts, but he sounds like he was a dick during their marriage. 

I think, two seasons ago, Sutton's mom was in an episode and Sutton was trying to talk about her father's suicide. Her mother kind of brushed it off with how her feelings with the situation were different than Sutton's, but they never explored that further. IIRC, Sutton's mom is a therapist or social worker. I was curious about their dynamic. Something that might explain why Sutton has a penchant for getting revved up over weird shit.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Surrealist

[RealHousewife]

Speaking of anxiety, I have generalized anxiety disorder like Kyle, and I have wondered how she handles the show all these years. I know part of it must be the fact she grew up in Hollywood and in front of the camera, but still. All the drama, fighting, being called out in front of the country for your dumbest mistakes, lack of privacy, sounds like the worst gig for someone who has anxiety. 

Sutton wasn't a child actress, but who knows. Maybe they see the show as worth the stress or no more stressful than any other job.

Edited November 21, 2023 by RealHousewife

[Surrealist]

21 minutes ago, princelina said:

I don't mind "owning it" (😃) and explaining - for starters I'm surrounded by a lot of boys crying wolf in my real life, and I've given Sutton the side-eye since she showed up on a boat trip with a face roller in her pocket just in case anyone started an anxiety-producing conversation with her 🙄. (For the record I was on her side during that argument with Crystal, and I felt she overplayed her hand). IMO it was a silly, attention-grabbing move, and since it hasn't happened again I'm comfortable making the judgment that she was showing off on tv.  Especially since she did not seem to feel any anxiety swanning into Kyle's original dinner party, sneering at her lack of place cards and calling Teddy boring.  She did not seem to feel anxiety when she pulled out the proof that Rinna was lying about the Elton John mess.  She stood up to Erika and Rinna over the years without this "anxiety".  But when she went to a strip club hoping to make some moves and got ignored as soon as the dancers entered their box, gave lap dances to some of the others - where's a girl's face roller when she needs it? 😂  If she were a friend of mine or someone I knew I'd be interested in talking to her and getting her take on things, but if she lied to me like she lied on WWHL I'd be giving her the side-eye again.  If her struggle is real she should get off the show, but she doesn't, which tells me her desire to be on tv overrides whatever "anxiety" she feels.  If I saw someone being treated in real life the way she is treated I'd care, even if I thought she was full of crap, but it's not real life and she keeps signing on to take it, so the amount I care is limited to my ability to watch these women on tv, judge them and make fun of them here 😁

The face roller was ridiculous.

But Teddi is one of the most boring fucking people to ever grace my TV. If Teddi were interesting, there was nothing stopping Bravo, or any cable channel, from giving her her own show. Maybe one where Kyle and Morgan can be her costars. Lol.

Sutton mentioned she thought Teddi might be boring. Maybe she shouldn't have said that, but Erika was straight up nasty toward Teddi. Really nasty. It's worth noting that Teddi's husband, Edwin, just sat there and ate his food while his wife was getting dragged. If I had been her, that would have been the greater concern for me. 

Also Teddi's also no better than Dana Wilkey with her podcast talking about other HWs to keep themselves relevant. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Surrealist

[RoseAllDay]

7 hours ago, Jst2Wld said:

There's  nothing provocative about Erika. IMO. However, she must have a following or she couldn't do Vegas. Maybe literally she could "do" Vegas. 

Probably already done “done” Vegas. Wasn’t that where she found that old sugardaddy right after Tom went into the care home?

Here she is, in her cough, cough  “residency”…High-end tickets cost —  are you sitting down? — $1,690.50. Cheap seats $69.50. It says “all ages welcome,” but then “21+.” Tried to see how ticket sales are going, but LiveNation thinks I’m a “bot.”

Thanks, Zetta, for the heads-up on this…I just had to check it out, LOL.

 

[Sweet-tea]

19 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I really hate how they go after Sutton and their biggest ammunition against her is how poorly she manages her mental health around them. Like she's supposed to check all that anxiety at the door whenever they are around each other.

It bothers me too, especially because we've seen Erika and Kyle get "unhinged" numerous times. Do they have short-term memory issues? Kyle was a basket case last season, which is probably why she quit drinking. She watched the footage and wasn't happy with how she acted. And in previous seasons she's gotten emotional or volatile numerous times. 

Don't even get me started on Erika's behavior, which is probably worse than Kyle's as Erika gets vicious. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[JenE4]

11 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I like good tea, and Lipton is not on my list. 
Kyle doesn’t pass up a single moment to belittle Sutton. Kyle’s taste in tea and friends makes me give her the side eye.

Absolutely nothing wrong with liking Lipton tea. My parent’s like Franzia wine from the box, I do not. We don’t judge each others palates.

Kyle really walks a fine line for needling people for ridiculous things that in her opinion are either too boujee or not boujee enough. Her going on and on laughing about Sutton’s fancy tea reminded me of last season laughing and laughing about Kathy’s boho “shopping bag” as a purse in Tahoe or whichever ski-resort town they went to. She picks out the most inane “criticism” and then goes on and on laughing until she succeeds in making you feel embarrassed for something that truly isn’t at all embarrassing. Then when you get upset about being teased, it’s you being upset about tea or pants, not that Kyle went out of her way to try to make you feel stupid about enjoying a lovely cup of tea. Like what’s your problem, Kyle? I know a lot of you have been saying this is how she operates, but I stopped watching this show during the “middle years” of its run and only returned once Erika and Tom hit the press for their legal issues, so I missed a lot of the show’s “history” and interpersonal dynamics. But I see what you mean now.

[Sweet-tea]

18 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

Sutton is just a demonstrative person who doesn’t handle conflict well, period, and Mean Girl/Bully Kyle is all too willing to take advantage.

I do think Kyle is a Mean Girl. She brings back bad memories of my school years. I had to deal with girls like her. 

[Jst2Wld]

5 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

Here she is, in her cough, cough  “residency”…High-end tickets cost —  are you sitting down? — $1,690.50

I wonder how many seats this venue has? The $65 tickets might be the ONLY seats filled. 

[RoseAllDay]

2 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

It bothers me too, especially because we've seen Erika and Kyle get "unhinged" numerous times. Do they have short-term memory issues? Kyle was a basket case last season, which is probably why she quit drinking. She watched the footage and wasn't happy with how she acted. And in previous seasons she's gotten emotional or volatile numerous times. 

Don't even get me started on Erika's behavior, which is probably worse than Kyle's as Erika gets vicious. 

What makes this doubly enraging is how Erika threatened Sutton at Kathy’s dinner party and got away with it. Sorry, but there is NO excuse for that. Ever.

I wish she would be the next to follow Rinna into Howives oblivion, but she is just too much gold for Andy.

[RoseAllDay]

1 hour ago, Jst2Wld said:

I wonder how many seats this venue has? The $65 tickets might be the ONLY seats filled. 

That’s why I tried to check ticket availability, to see how many seats are left. The general Vegas website is a cluster.

HofB does have a Gospel Brunch, but apparently Erika in all her newfound piety is not appearing there. ✝️

[Yours Truly]

9 hours ago, princelina said:

I don't mind "owning it" (😃) and explaining - for starters I'm surrounded by a lot of boys crying wolf in my real life, and I've given Sutton the side-eye since she showed up on a boat trip with a face roller in her pocket just in case anyone started an anxiety-producing conversation with her 🙄. (For the record I was on her side during that argument with Crystal, and I felt she overplayed her hand). IMO it was a silly, attention-grabbing move, and since it hasn't happened again I'm comfortable making the judgment that she was showing off on tv.  Especially since she did not seem to feel any anxiety swanning into Kyle's original dinner party, sneering at her lack of place cards and calling Teddy boring.  She did not seem to feel anxiety when she pulled out the proof that Rinna was lying about the Elton John mess.  She stood up to Erika and Rinna over the years without this "anxiety".  But when she went to a strip club hoping to make some moves and got ignored as soon as the dancers entered their box, gave lap dances to some of the others - where's a girl's face roller when she needs it? 😂  If she were a friend of mine or someone I knew I'd be interested in talking to her and getting her take on things, but if she lied to me like she lied on WWHL I'd be giving her the side-eye again.  If her struggle is real she should get off the show, but she doesn't, which tells me her desire to be on tv overrides whatever "anxiety" she feels.  If I saw someone being treated in real life the way she is treated I'd care, even if I thought she was full of crap, but it's not real life and she keeps signing on to take it, so the amount I care is limited to my ability to watch these women on tv, judge them and make fun of them here 😁

I don't think she's full of crap I think there are moments where she's better versed in her own defense and/or already prepared for a confrontation so she's already mentally prepared herself and then there are the moments that catch her off guard and it's in those moments and situations where she goes a bit over the rails in trying to manage the onslaught. I tend to see the genuine bewilderment in those situations where she's honestly amazed at how meanspirited the tone turns. I'd be taken aback too if i were engaged in a conversation and someone starts hurling medical diagnoses at me AS AN INSULT like Crystal did on that boat. It's the need to start hurling hurtful commentary at Sutton because she's not handling a confrontation as well as other deem she should in that moment.

It's a tactic that is very common when people are at a loss during a confrontation and can't seem to move the discussion forward in a positive way OR better yet on their own behalf that they start shifting the tone and making YOU feel like YOUR crazy and commenting on how your mental health is what's causing the discord as opposed to just being at odds with each other. It's a very mean and cruel way to try to win a fight and they use this on Sutton constantly. I don't like it when it's used on anyone cause its a manipulation and I hate when people use the distress and emotional imbalance of the other person as A) justifiable cause to be aggravated with them to the point of nasty retaliation and B)as something to mock them with. I also hate it when the attempt is made to turn the episode around and claim that it's a weapon THE OTHER PERSON is using on them as a manipulation. Yes it happens but at the same time the recourse isn't doubling down and feeding into the mental health stigma by claiming the episode is false and is being used as a tactic OR criticizing the episode by calling the other person unstable and unpredictable. That's just plain old mean. People not being able to keep their cool and resorting to nasty and hurtful insults using mental health as their big swing bug me a whole lot more than Suttons "episodes" whether they are questionable or not.  

I find it absolutely astounding that grown adults can't keep it together enough NOT to take such an ugly approach when dealing with someone who is trying to work through whatever episode or moment they are having. Trading insults back and forth when having a disagreement or confrontation and going back and forth with nasty drama on these shows is one thing and one big thing a lot of people tune in for but to be reduced to PICKING on a castmate with the overall theme being about emotional distress, mental health. That's a different angle I've never been on board with. Deliberate and planned out cruelty has never been something I blindly accept as something that comes with the territory because it shouldn't. There are plenty of ways to amp up the drama and I really need them to remove the negative approach towards mental health and emotional wellbeing as on of those ways. 

 

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

It bothers me too, especially because we've seen Erika and Kyle get "unhinged" numerous times. Do they have short-term memory issues? Kyle was a basket case last season, which is probably why she quit drinking. She watched the footage and wasn't happy with how she acted. And in previous seasons she's gotten emotional or volatile numerous times. 

Don't even get me started on Erika's behavior, which is probably worse than Kyle's as Erika gets vicious. 

Also, in all of Suttons "outrageous" episodes have we truly ever seen her tear into anyone or completely lash out maliciously?

I think her most notable outburst was the ugly leather pants comment and that's during an argument that she was trying to avoid.

Erika's hurled some nasty shit STRAIGHT out of left field during a misinterpreted conversation at a dinner table. Rinna has thrown a glass, had a melt down at her own table randomly, Kyle has physically attacked Sutton with her claws, I mean in this crowd Sutton is the mildest offender and yet somehow the negative narrative that follows her reaches mindboggling levels.

Like really? Suttons issues are the biggest crux of the group and the hardest to manuever around? It's all so absolutely ridiculous. 

[Jst2Wld]

1 hour ago, RoseAllDay said:

HofB does have a Gospel Brunch, but apparently Erika in all her newfound piety is not appearing there. ✝️

Not sure how RHOBH and Gospel equate but glad EJ won't be there!

Maybe she goes to the nursing home that old man Girardi is at and does sexual favors. For money, of course. Because she thinks she is worth it. That, and nobody else wants to do it!

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Jst2Wld

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

It's a tactic that is very common when people are at a loss during a confrontation and can't seem to move the discussion forward in a positive way OR better yet on their own behalf that they start shifting the tone and making YOU feel like YOUR crazy and commenting on how your mental health is what's causing the discord as opposed to just being at odds with each other. It's a very mean and cruel way to try to win a fight and they use this on Sutton constantly. I don't like it when it's used on anyone cause its a manipulation and I hate when people use the distress and emotional imbalance of the other person as A) justifiable cause to be aggravated with them to the point of nasty retaliation and B)as something to mock them with. I also hate it when the attempt is made to turn the episode around and claim that it's a weapon THE OTHER PERSON is using on them as a manipulation. Yes it happens but at the same time the recourse isn't doubling down and feeding into the mental health stigma by claiming the episode is false and is being used as a tactic OR criticizing the episode by calling the other person unstable and unpredictable. That's just plain old mean. People not being able to keep their cool and resorting to nasty and hurtful insults using mental health as their big swing bug me a whole lot more than Suttons "episodes" whether they are questionable or not.  

It's gaslighting.

1 hour ago, RoseAllDay said:

HofB does have a Gospel Brunch, but apparently Erika in all her newfound piety is not appearing there. 

And this wouldn't be considered the right kind of show in which to perform a simulated oral sex scene onstage?!

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Also, in all of Suttons "outrageous" episodes have we truly ever seen her tear into anyone or completely lash out maliciously?

I think her most notable outburst was the ugly leather pants comment and that's during an argument that she was trying to avoid.

Erika's hurled some nasty shit STRAIGHT out of left field during a misinterpreted conversation at a dinner table. Rinna has thrown a glass, had a melt down at her own table randomly, Kyle has physically attacked Sutton with her claws, I mean in this crowd Sutton is the mildest offender and yet somehow the negative narrative that follows her reaches mindboggling levels.

Like really? Suttons issues are the biggest crux of the group and the hardest to manuever around? It's all so absolutely ridiculous. 

Let's not forget the limo confrontation between Kyle and Kim on camera. Or her usual passive aggressive comments about her sisters in general.

Not that I'm defending Kim and Kathy as better, but just that Kyle takes her digs. Or as Dorit would say "take little jabs."

[princelina]

13 hours ago, Surrealist said:

The face roller was ridiculous.

But Teddi is one of the most boring fucking people to ever grace my TV. If Teddi were interesting, there was nothing stopping Bravo, or any cable channel, from giving her her own show. Maybe one where Kyle and Morgan can be her costars. Lol.

Sutton mentioned she thought Teddi might be boring. Maybe she shouldn't have said that, but Erika was straight up nasty toward Teddi. Really nasty. It's worth noting that Teddi's husband, Edwin, just sat there and ate his food while his wife was getting dragged. If I had been her, that would have been the greater concern for me. 

Also Teddi's also no better than Dana Wilkey with her podcast talking about other HWs to keep themselves relevant. 

Yeah Teddi sucks, and I don't want to see her on my tv either.  I'm merely talking about when Sutton's anxiety does and does not make an appearance.

3 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

There are plenty of ways to amp up the drama and I really need them to remove the negative approach towards mental health and emotional wellbeing as on of those ways. 

Everything you say is true (except that I disagree about Sutton being full of crap) but this is what these shows have turned into - the ladies watch them, want to be on tv, want to be on the picking side rather than the picked on side, and some are better at it than others.  All of reality tv shows change for the worse the longer they are on IMO.  But no one goes on tv to "show us their lives" without being something of a narcissist - I don't want to be on tv, and I don't flatter myself that people will find my mundane existence fascinating, even though I enjoy it just fine.  Not only did Erika be horrible to her at Kathy's dinner party, but Rinna actually told her last year to "Get the fuck out of my house!" in front of everyone and no one stuck up for her!  I'd have said "Later, bitches" and that would be the last of the RHoBH would have seen of me!  But here she is back for another season.  In the end people do what they want to do, and she wants to be on tv.

 

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Also, in all of Suttons "outrageous" episodes have we truly ever seen her tear into anyone or completely lash out maliciously?

I think her most notable outburst was the ugly leather pants comment and that's during an argument that she was trying to avoid.

 

That's when she was sulking because she hadn't brought a gift to a birthday party and others had, and some had gone in on one together.  Many of her outbursts seem to be when she doesn't feel included, like the gift, Kathy's hilarious "prank" with the drinks and now the strippers.  She behaved worse in all of those times than when Rinna yelled at her to get the fuck out of her house!

[Surrealist]

16 minutes ago, princelina said:

Yeah Teddi sucks, and I don't want to see her on my tv either.  I'm merely talking about when Sutton's anxiety does and does not make an appearance.

I agree that her behavior, especially so far this season, has been puzzling. And I like her, but I feel like there could have been (should have been?) opportunities to explore more of her background so that I understand where she's coming from and why she acts weird in certain circumstances. 

I'm one of those people who has to understand why someone is the way they are. 😂

I'm not the biggest fan of Kyle, but feel like I've learned a lot about why she is the way she is. She grew up with a toxic mother who pitted her three daughters against one another. I feel like this manifests itself as well in her dealings with others. 

I even kind of understand why Rinna is the way she is.

Interestingly, as I'm not a fan of hers either, I wouldn't mind understanding more about Erika's background. I highly doubt she just grew up and became an inherently cold person. I feel like that seed was planted in her childhood. 

She and Sutton can't stand each other, but I feel like there are certain parallels evident in both their backgrounds. We don't know enough about them (yet).

[princelina]

4 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Interestingly, as I'm not a fan of hers either, I wouldn't mind understanding more about Erika's background. I highly doubt she just grew up and became an inherently cold person. I feel like that seed was planted in her childhood. 

She and Sutton can't stand each other, but I feel like there are certain parallels evident in both their backgrounds. We don't know enough about them (yet).

Erika did do some background information in an earlier season - she never knew her dad until she was an adult; her mom moved them in with grandparents to watch Erika while she flitted about in a variety of artsy endeavors, and was very strict and harsh with Erika because she wanted her to be strong.  Erika said she remembered her mom crying over men who did her wrong and vowed never to be that way.  Any surprises here? 😄

[Surrealist]

3 minutes ago, princelina said:

Erika did do some background information in an earlier season - she never knew her dad until she was an adult; her mom moved them in with grandparents to watch Erika while she flitted about in a variety of artsy endeavors, and was very strict and harsh with Erika because she wanted her to be strong.  Erika said she remembered her mom crying over men who did her wrong and vowed never to be that way.  Any surprises here? 😄

You know what? I vaguely remember her talking about being raised by her grandmother who seemed like a hard ass herself.

It's weird because Erika is right about different things, and I want to like her, but she's a nasty human being way more often than not.

[Yours Truly]

23 minutes ago, princelina said:

 

 

That's when she was sulking because she hadn't brought a gift to a birthday party and others had, and some had gone in on one together.  Many of her outbursts seem to be when she doesn't feel included, like the gift, Kathy's hilarious "prank" with the drinks and now the strippers.  She behaved worse in all of those times than when Rinna yelled at her to get the fuck out of her house!

I think its that I distinguish Suttons moods as just that, moods. They aren't actually outbursts. The erratic behavior happens when the "follow up" occurs and someone chases after her to prod her for more information about what's bugging her. Most of the time she doesn't want to spill cause Sutton, herself understands that it/she would either A) sound ridiculous out loud B) won't explain herself well C)not be received well D)is ill timed and not for a group discussion. 

Yes, she has her moments. It is what it is. I think it's wrong to expect her to NOT have moments. That's what triggers are. They show up in the most ridiculous of forms and affect emotions with no warning. I won't fault Sutton for having reactions to a cast of women that make it a point to "other" her. She has reason to have those misgivings and unfortunately it leads her to misread situations that then cause her to have emotional reactions. I give her that right to make mistakes espeically when she's around women that make it a point to put her on edge whenever they can. Even during "lighthearted" interactions she gets a lot of their needling aimed at her. All that stuff gets stored away in the mind of someone with anxiety and pops back up in an emotionally charged moment and that definitely doesn't help Suttons cause.

What Sutton doesn't do is jump up and start lashing out and targeting others at the drop of a hat. For the most part we constantly see Sutton TRY and remove herself once she's realized that she's having a strong negative reaction to something or other. Whether people think it's stupid or not, something internal is driving her to be emotional and she understands that she's on the verge so she tries to isolate herself in order to gather her bearing. Does she recognize the oncoming fit BEFORE she's noticeably upset. Nope, but so what? I don't expect Sutton to regulate  herself to the degree that she doesn't "offend" the other womens delicate sensitivities over seeing Sutton in a bit of a snit.  So they see somethings upset her. Okay, so? Sutton isn't tying anyone's hands. They can just chose to shrug their shoulders and leave her be not take it as a personal offense that Sutton needs to go gather herself emotionally away from the group. But that's what they do. They villianize her for being visibly upset about whatever instead of just leaving her be. 

Going to check on someone is just that. Checking on them and that's all and do that ONLY if you want to. Chasing Sutton down to demand she explain herself is a whole other matter and is what turns a moody moment into what they are always  desperately hoping to classify as a bratty outburst. Yeah, maybe it ends up as a bit of a bratty tantrum but it doesn't usually start out that way. Usually it's maybe a lowkey snit, or moody snark but Sutton mumbling this or that isn't the same as an unhinged outburst and the women don't seem to be able to distinguish the two. The harping about such small details is just as bad as what they are trying to accuse Sutton of doing. Making small things bigger than they need to be and that's exactly what the women do when they deal with <bully> Sutton. 

[RoseAllDay]

3 hours ago, princelina said:

Erika did do some background information in an earlier season - she never knew her dad until she was an adult; her mom moved them in with grandparents to watch Erika while she flitted about in a variety of artsy endeavors, and was very strict and harsh with Erika because she wanted her to be strong.  Erika said she remembered her mom crying over men who did her wrong and vowed never to be that way.  Any surprises here? 😄

Not excusing her at all, but I think Erika deep down is a very hurting individual. There was a book several years ago about “healing the inner child”, about how childhood can affect adulthood. She went through a lot of shit that she doesn’t want to acknowledge, so it comes out in vileness. I remember her saying that she never cried — when she was crying at the gravesite of her grandmother, who supposedly meant the world to her.

Being mean is her way of being one step ahead of people who want to hurt her. At least, that’s my take.

[princelina]

 

 

3 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I think its that I distinguish Suttons moods as just that, moods. They aren't actually outbursts. The erratic behavior happens when the "follow up" occurs and someone chases after her to prod her for more information about what's bugging her. Most of the time she doesn't want to spill cause Sutton, herself understands that it/she would either A) sound ridiculous out loud B) won't explain herself well C)not be received well D)is ill timed and not for a group discussion. 

Yes, she has her moments. It is what it is. I think it's wrong to expect her to NOT have moments. That's what triggers are. They show up in the most ridiculous of forms and affect emotions with no warning. I won't fault Sutton for having reactions to a cast of women that make it a point to "other" her. She has reason to have those misgivings and unfortunately it leads her to misread situations that then cause her to have emotional reactions. I give her that right to make mistakes espeically when she's around women that make it a point to put her on edge whenever they can. Even during "lighthearted" interactions she gets a lot of their needling aimed at her. All that stuff gets stored away in the mind of someone with anxiety and pops back up in an emotionally charged moment and that definitely doesn't help Suttons cause.

What Sutton doesn't do is jump up and start lashing out and targeting others at the drop of a hat. For the most part we constantly see Sutton TRY and remove herself once she's realized that she's having a strong negative reaction to something or other. Whether people think it's stupid or not, something internal is driving her to be emotional and she understands that she's on the verge so she tries to isolate herself in order to gather her bearing. Does she recognize the oncoming fit BEFORE she's noticeably upset. Nope, but so what? I don't expect Sutton to regulate  herself to the degree that she doesn't "offend" the other womens delicate sensitivities over seeing Sutton in a bit of a snit.  So they see somethings upset her. Okay, so? Sutton isn't tying anyone's hands. They can just chose to shrug their shoulders and leave her be not take it as a personal offense that Sutton needs to go gather herself emotionally away from the group. But that's what they do. They villianize her for being visibly upset about whatever instead of just leaving her be. 

Going to check on someone is just that. Checking on them and that's all and do that ONLY if you want to. Chasing Sutton down to demand she explain herself is a whole other matter and is what turns a moody moment into what they are always  desperately hoping to classify as a bratty outburst. Yeah, maybe it ends up as a bit of a bratty tantrum but it doesn't usually start out that way. Usually it's maybe a lowkey snit, or moody snark but Sutton mumbling this or that isn't the same as an unhinged outburst and the women don't seem to be able to distinguish the two. The harping about such small details is just as bad as what they are trying to accuse Sutton of doing. Making small things bigger than they need to be and that's exactly what the women do when they deal with <bully> Sutton. 

I was watching the Hong Kong reruns the other day while cleaning my living room getting ready for the Christmas trees.  (Prior to the Hong Kong trip was when Erika was doing her background story actually @Surrealist). She and Dorit got into it on the boat - Erika screamed at Dorit that she was stupid and boring, carried on about the underpants, Rinna chimed in "Fuck you Dorit" for no reason; then we went to dinner where Erika flipped out on Dorit and then Eileen, LVP and Kyle tried to calm everyone down, and then out of the blue Rinna asked Dorit if they were doing cocaine at her party.  (Previously in the season Dorit had tried to make a "thing" about Rinna saying she puts Xanax in her smoothies - twice - but no one picked up on it.  Rinna was now back for revenge.). It struck me that they were just as nasty to each other then - Rinna even THd that Dorit talked too much and needed to be put in her place.  Also - Dorit was trying to start something about Rinna but no one else wanted to get in on it.  I've noticed that Garcelle sometimes tries to start something too but it takes her a little while to gain traction.  They're all constantly picking on each other behind each others' backs and waiting to see what happens.  I wouldn't be friends with any of them in real life, nor would I want to join their show and partake in the antics.  But Sutton wants to be there; she knows how they are.  She has the right to do whatever she wants, without me giving it to her.  If she wants to play she should toughen up or get out of the game.  Or keep playing and getting treated badly.  Her choice and I see which one she's making.

ETA:  I think the reason this discussion will continue to go round and round is that you have a kinder heart than me and are talking about how people should behave - and I agree with you.  I am talking about how they are going to behave - the show is not going to change its format and the ladies are not going to quit being jerks.  All I'm saying is Sutton is the one with the choice here and she's making a choice to show up and take it, so she must be getting something out of it.  You kindly give her the benefit of the doubt while I think she's playing badly.  Peace 😊

Edited November 21, 2023 by princelina

[Yours Truly]

29 minutes ago, princelina said:

 

 

I was watching the Hong Kong reruns the other day while cleaning my living room getting ready for the Christmas trees.  (Prior to the Hong Kong trip was when Erika was doing her background story actually @Surrealist). She and Dorit got into it on the boat - Erika screamed at Dorit that she was stupid and boring, carried on about the underpants, Rinna chimed in "Fuck you Dorit" for no reason; then we went to dinner where Erika flipped out on Dorit and then Eileen, LVP and Kyle tried to calm everyone down, and then out of the blue Rinna asked Dorit if they were doing cocaine at her party.  (Previously in the season Dorit had tried to make a "thing" about Rinna saying she puts Xanax in her smoothies - twice - but no one picked up on it.  Rinna was now back for revenge.). It struck me that they were just as nasty to each other then - Rinna even THd that Dorit talked too much and needed to be put in her place.  Also - Dorit was trying to start something about Rinna but no one else wanted to get in on it.  I've noticed that Garcelle sometimes tries to start something too but it takes her a little while to gain traction.  They're all constantly picking on each other behind each others' backs and waiting to see what happens.  I wouldn't be friends with any of them in real life, nor would I want to join their show and partake in the antics.  But Sutton wants to be there; she knows how they are.  She has the right to do whatever she wants, without me giving it to her.  If she wants to play she should toughen up or get out of the game.  Or keep playing and getting treated badly.  Her choice and I see which one she's making.

ETA:  I think the reason this discussion will continue to go round and round is that you have a kinder heart than me and are talking about how people should behave - and I agree with you.  I am talking about how they are going to behave - the show is not going to change its format and the ladies are not going to quit being jerks.  All I'm saying is Sutton is the one with the choice here and she's making a choice to show up and take it, so she must be getting something out of it.  You kindly give her the benefit of the doubt while I think she's playing badly.  Peace 😊

I think the difference with me is that I don’t fall back on generic “can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen” logic. 💁🏻‍♀️ The shows are typical wash, rinse, repeat however I will still call out BS. Being on a show doesn’t excuse ugly behavior whether it’s expected or not. Sutton is there for a paycheck, or exposure, or whatever the hell she wants to use the show for. She should be able to take advantage of the platform just like the rest without the price being viewers accepting her mistreatment.  Nope. I’ll continue to base my observations and opinions on how people should behave and not just conform to the model the franchise shoves down our throats.  Im not losing any sleep over any of these ladies and their trials but I’m not gonna compromise what I think is right just because these women happen to be on a reality show. 
 

Whatever Sutton’s reasons are for staying on the show and subjecting herself to this doesn’t matter. No matter the format, treating people badly is wrong. No one “deserves” ugly treatment and deeming it okay sucks. Yeah she doesn’t need the money but apparently she needs something the show provides. Why should it be okay to torture her? As much as viewers WANT to describe the franchise this way it really ISNT supposed to be the premise so I refuse to accept that as some legit description of what the women should expect. 

 

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, Pi237 said:

Kyle's turned into Teddi.

It's gone full circle, since Teddi became a Kyle clone a few years ago...

[Surrealist]

4 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

It's gone full circle, since Teddi became a Kyle clone a few years ago...

I'm somewhat surprised that a rumor about Kyle and Teddi being involved hasn't made the rounds. I knew nothing about Morgan until the gossip popped up.

[SemiCharmedLife]

I found it ridiculously hypocritical of Kyle telling Sutton that she has a tendency to blow things out of proportion.  First, Kyle should look in the mirror, or rewatch all the seasons of BH.  She's the biggest drama queen of them all. Secondly, Kyle is usually one of the instigators of jumping on Sutton at every wrong move and making a huge deal out of it.  Sutton herself told Kyle that she left the show and didn't want anyone else to leave, but that's not what Kyle texted.  KYLE made the others leave early and blamed it on Sutton.  Most of the others were blaming Sutton for ruining the night.  Then, Erika made Sutton apologize, and lied to the dancers about what Sutton said.  I really don't think Sutton can win with some of the housewives.  

[Sweet-tea]

7 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I'm somewhat surprised that a rumor about Kyle and Teddi being involved hasn't made the rounds. I knew nothing about Morgan until the gossip popped up.

Some of the women were dancing around this the last time Teddi was on the show. They didn't come right out and say it but they implied Kyle and Teddi were "very close" in a different way. I can't remember the specific comments. 

Quote

I'm not the biggest fan of Kyle, but feel like I've learned a lot about why she is the way she is. She grew up with a toxic mother who pitted her three daughters against one another. I feel like this manifests itself as well in her dealings with others. 

I grew up this way with my mother and two sisters. It does create issues, mostly around trusting other people, especially women. 

[RoseAllDay]

46 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

Some of the women were dancing around this the last time Teddi was on the show. They didn't come right out and say it but they implied Kyle and Teddi were "very close" in a different way. I can't remember the specific comments. 

I grew up this way with my mother and two sisters. It does create issues, mostly around trusting other people, especially women. 

I seem to remember this, too. I think it was during one of the trips when they were sharing a house.

Teddi is so thirsty to stay relevant anymore that she’s become utterly disgusting. I caught a WWHL Bravocon edition where she and Vicki Gunvalson went at it, and I actually sided with Vicki.

13 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I think the difference with me is that I don’t fall back on generic “can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen” logic. 💁🏻‍♀️ The shows are typical wash, rinse, repeat however I will still call out BS. Being on a show doesn’t excuse ugly behavior whether it’s expected or not. Sutton is there for a paycheck, or exposure, or whatever the hell she wants to use the show for. She should be able to take advantage of the platform just like the rest without the price being viewers accepting her mistreatment.  Nope. I’ll continue to base my observations and opinions on how people should behave and not just conform to the model the franchise shoves down our throats.  Im not losing any sleep over any of these ladies and their trials but I’m not gonna compromise what I think is right just because these women happen to be on a reality show. 
 

Whatever Sutton’s reasons are for staying on the show and subjecting herself to this doesn’t matter. No matter the format, treating people badly is wrong. No one “deserves” ugly treatment and deeming it okay sucks. Yeah she doesn’t need the money but apparently she needs something the show provides. Why should it be okay to torture her? As much as viewers WANT to describe the franchise this way it really ISNT supposed to be the premise so I refuse to accept that as some legit description of what the women should expect. 

 

It seems every show needs a resident scapegoat, and for whatever reason Sutton is it for BH. 🤷‍♀️

[Slakkie]

28 minutes ago, RoseAllDay said:

I seem to remember this, too. I think it was during one of the trips when they were sharing a house.

Teddi is so thirsty to stay relevant anymore that she’s become utterly disgusting. I caught a WWHL Bravocon edition where she and Vicki Gunvalson went at it, and I actually sided with Vicki.

It seems every show needs a resident scapegoat, and for whatever reason Sutton is it for BH. 🤷‍♀️

I am hating Teddi even more just because she forced me to agree with Vicki.  I just want to understand why Kyle's "Just be HONEST" does not apply to the FFF and specifically her.

Come on Kyle lets talk about the husband.

[Yours Truly]

10 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I found it ridiculously hypocritical of Kyle telling Sutton that she has a tendency to blow things out of proportion.  First, Kyle should look in the mirror, or rewatch all the seasons of BH.  She's the biggest drama queen of them all. Secondly, Kyle is usually one of the instigators of jumping on Sutton at every wrong move and making a huge deal out of it.  Sutton herself told Kyle that she left the show and didn't want anyone else to leave, but that's not what Kyle texted.  KYLE made the others leave early and blamed it on Sutton.  Most of the others were blaming Sutton for ruining the night.  Then, Erika made Sutton apologize, and lied to the dancers about what Sutton said.  I really don't think Sutton can win with some of the housewives.  

Nice that people notice, I mean in all honesty it should be pretty obvious since a lot of it is usually ON FILM. Kyle was the one to elaborate on Suttons mood and make unnecessary determinations about how the group should proceed. 

My observations that are backed up by what is shown on the show is that Sutton has a bad reaction to something and SOMEONE ELSE picks it up and runs with it and puts a negative spin on it when it can easily be a throw away moment. Now granted, I know the women are doing their thing to create drama but when it's based on blatant lies and misrepresentation about what Sutton ACTUALLY does that's when I feel like it's such a rip off. I saw with my own two eyes what happened can we at least try to keep the underhanded dealings a bit more stealth? Be a little more clever with whatever set up you're trying to implement. But no, it's just straight to accusations that doesn't even come close to what has actually happened. It's so obviously ridiculous. I think that's the biggest problem for me.

When it comes to Sutton they really do take one detail that's accurate and then create this whole other story and make Sutton the center of it and in a negative way. Putting words in her mouth, telling her to own the narrative they've chosen for her based on their misrepresentation or misinterpretation on what she's actually done. That's the part that I feel goes to far. 

One thing turns into this HUGE slight that Sutton has to answer for and time and time again I'm always dumbfounded at how big the leaps are when it comes to what these women concoct in terms of Suttons transgressions. I'm constantly like "huh, what? where on earth did they get all that shit? How did they get there from Sutton using a face roller? Or Sutton returning a coat? or Sutton misunderstanding a prank? or Sutton feeling uncomfortable over a gift?" The amount of disdain they find for all actions Sutton is just so simple minded and distasteful.

They assume reasons for Suttons actions and then accuse Sutton of bad behavior based on their ASSUMPTIONS without actually listening to Suttons stated reasoning. How are you going to tell someone they are lying about their own explanations because you think it's something else. Whether you may be right I think it's ridiculous to tell someone else what was going on in their own head even if you believe you have a good understanding of what you THINK is the real case. You can't harass someone into sharing your version of their thoughts and that's what they do to her. They TELL HER what she's really mad about then punish her for what they feel is dishonesty. I mean they don't even need Sutton around if they are going to completely discount what SHE'S saying is the issue and continue to believe the narrative they've created which is usually always way more dramatic then it even needs to be even if there is some accuracy in what they think is the real deal. Even if you are right that she wanted to go up on stage, so? Why does she have to admit it? Why does it turn into a witch hunt? It's the overkill.

I get the creating drama part but it's the overkill in where they want to put Suttons mental state that gets me every time. They don't seem to be happy until they see Sutton visibly distraught and I don't care what anyone says, it's bullshit and in my eyes its not something that should be normalized just because it's a reality show. 

3 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

 

It seems every show needs a resident scapegoat, and for whatever reason Sutton is it for BH. 🤷‍♀️

Yup, and it's never fun to watch. 

If drama is the goal, fine but low hanging fruit has always and will always bug me. 

[ladle]

Perhaps I should ask a psychologist how to scrounge up some empathy…for Erika. 

[ladle]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:40 PM, Straycat80 said:

Probably unpopular opinion but : I hate when people criticize other people for making the decision to not drink alcohol anymore.

I don’t know why that opinion would be unpopular! It’s really crappy the way the other women are going at Kyle for her sobriety, and acting like it’s some sign of dysfunction. Even Garcelle, from whom I’d generally expect better. 

[Keywestclubkid]

No one is dogging her for not drinking tho Garcelle made a comment and moved on and so did Dorit .. it was just new to them because she does Normally drink .... and it is strange all the sudden to stop .. now if they continue to harp on it then yes id see having a problem but as of now no one really cares it seems

[ladle]

I loathe Erika, so far be it from me to defend her, but I’m pretty sure she was joking about the God stuff. 

[ladle]

25 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

No one is dogging her for not drinking tho Garcelle made a comment and moved on and so did Dorit .. it was just new to them because she does Normally drink .... and it is strange all the sudden to stop .. now if they continue to harp on it then yes id see having a problem but as of now no one really cares it seems

Garcelle asked Kyle, about the drinking, “How much longer is this going to go on?” To me, that seemed unsupportive. Dorit bemoaned the fact that Kyle isn’t getting wild and crazy with her (aka drinking with her) on this trip. When the women were together in the morning talking about Kyle’s exercising and sobriety, Dorit said these things were “unsustainable.”
 

Personally, I love a good drink! But if a friend told me they weren’t drinking anymore for health reasons I’d just say “great” and keep it moving. 
 

Of course, this is RHW, so standard rules of decorum will not apply… 

[Keywestclubkid]

22 minutes ago, ladle said:

Garcelle asked Kyle, about the drinking, “How much longer is this going to go on?” To me, that seemed unsupportive. Dorit bemoaned the fact that Kyle isn’t getting wild and crazy with her (aka drinking with her) on this trip. When the women were together in the morning talking about Kyle’s exercising and sobriety, Dorit said these things were “unsustainable.”
 

Personally, I love a good drink! But if a friend told me they weren’t drinking anymore for health reasons I’d just say “great” and keep it moving. 
 

Of course, this is RHW, so standard rules of decorum will not apply… 

Because up until that she was drinking all the time .. even Dorit asked to her face why she stopped .. 

[RealHousewife]

I’m not a fan of pressuring people to drink period. It’s sad so many are perplexed by those of us who aren’t interested in alcohol.

[RoseAllDay]

What a coincidence…the reunion from 2019, on Bravo right now, is bringing up the Teddi/Kyle connection….

Andy: “What made you go from casual friends to besties this season?” 😄

Edited November 22, 2023 by RoseAllDay

[SweetieDarling]

17 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I’m not a fan of pressuring people to drink period. It’s sad so many are perplexed by those of us who aren’t interested in alcohol.

 

23 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Because up until that she was drinking all the time .. even Dorit asked to her face why she stopped .. 

 @RealHousewife I think @Keywestclubkid answered your question.

If Kyle had never been a drinker, or not much of a drinker, I think people's reactions would be different. But this is Kyle, Queen Of The Splits, and Helicopter Dancing so, people are curious why the sudden change

Edited November 22, 2023 by SweetieDarling

[ladle]

The vibe I’m getting from the women is less “This is a change for you- I’m curious as to why you stopped” and more “This is weird and you’re no longer any fun.” 
 

YMMV. 

[princelina]

7 minutes ago, ladle said:

The vibe I’m getting from the women is less “This is a change for you- I’m curious as to why you stopped” and more “This is weird and you’re no longer any fun.” 
 

YMMV. 

Yes but this is what they do - make these types of comments and see if others will pick up on them to start a "thing".  Ditto the Kyle/Teddi lesbian jibes.  At this point in time they don't seem to want to pick up on the Kyle comments, but the Sutton ones have traction.  Maybe because Kyle has been around for so long - she gets away with picking but is less likely to be picked on.  I've noticed (not just this year but in reruns) that Garcelle and Dorit drop a lot of hints that don't get picked up on; they're still out there working it though!

[ladle]

Oh I totally agree that this is what they do. Every decision is dissected, every minor comment debated ad nauseam. It must be exhausting to be on this show, knowing that any of your “friends” would turn on you, given the right conditions. 
 

I still think we can critique them for what they do.

[RoseAllDay]

Sutton completely OWNED Kyle in that exchange in her home. She was getting on Kyle’s last nerve and she was loving it. Kyle was the one acting “unhinged,” TBH.

Name ‘em! Name ‘em! 

Again….how dare Kyle come into someone’s house and act like that. Get. Out.

[ZettaK]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:21 AM, RealHousewife said:

Speaking of anxiety, I have generalized anxiety disorder like Kyle, and I have wondered how she handles the show all these years. I know part of it must be the fact she grew up in Hollywood and in front of the camera, but still. All the drama, fighting, being called out in front of the country for your dumbest mistakes, lack of privacy, sounds like the worst gig for someone who has anxiety. 

Sutton wasn't a child actress, but who knows. Maybe they see the show as worth the stress or no more stressful than any other job.

Both Kyle and Sutton should be off the show if they suffer from anxiety, but I see both are still on.

[ZettaK]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:29 PM, Yours Truly said:

It's nobody's call to decide what issues create an emotional response. It's hella entitled to decide what should and shouldn't be importation to someone else's emotional wellbeing.  That's what these women are doing to her and to be honest, having a moment isn't for someone else to approve or deny and it confuses me every time one of these women think it's something they are allowed to decide about on Suttons behalf. 

This was an answer to something I said.

Sutton could leave the show if she had anxiety, and was uncomfortable being on a reality show, or around specific women. But she didn't, and that's her 5th season. Is fame more important than her mental health?

[Yours Truly]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:10 PM, ZettaK said:

This was an answer to something I said.

Sutton could leave the show if she had anxiety, and was uncomfortable being on a reality show, or around specific women. But she didn't, and that's her 5th season. Is fame more important than her mental health?

The treatment that Sutton receives is inappropriate, unacceptable and meanspirited. Full stop. I think its a cop out to wave a hand and say well she should just leave. 

Maybe she feels the show helps her getting stronger when it comes to her anxiety. Maybe it's something that gives her more confidence helps her be more assertive. Whatever Suttons reasons for being on the show doesn't excuse the ridculously offensive behavior of the the ladies towards Sutton. If it was just some catty drama that would be one thing but a big chunk of how they target Sutton revolves around her emotional state and trying to call into question her mental stability during any given conversation. To put it simply, they weaponize mental health and wellness and viciously hurl it at Sutton every chance they get. 

It's not only a Sutton thing for me it's the disgusting manner in which they go after her using something that isn't a laughing matter, shouldn't be taken lightly and most definitely shouldn't be used against ANYONE in such a nasty, hurtful way. 

Trying to normalize this sort of ugliness or blaming the wronged party sounds a whole lot like she's asking for it. From day one, I've always stuck with the idea that as raunchy and crazy as reality shows get (at least the one's I watch) crossing a certain line is, and will always be an unacceptable approach to "doing one's job". This is why I don't watch the way more volatile and questionable shows out there because I can't stomach them. 

Turning a blind eye to someone's bad behavior and rationalizing being a shit human is a skillset I've never acquired so there's also that. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Yours Truly