The Musketeers - General Discussion

[Maelstrom]

Finally got around to watching this, and I found Emilie's storyline rather interesting. I enjoyed the first season episodes that touched on moral/ethical dilemmas, and this reminded me of those kinds of stories a bit. Also liked the few Athos-centric moments we got (detoxing with Emilie and running into Milady) - I wasn't entirely sure about Thom Burke at the beginning, but he's really grown on me as Athos. Now if only he'd get a chance to do more. Next week looks promising.

 

Now if only we hadn't had yet more (endless) scenes of Rochefort scheming, the King being an idiot, the Queen being an idiot (though a different kind of idiot from the King) and the Musketeers once again getting one-upped - rinse, lather, repeat. I say enough already!

 

And because it can't be said enough: what's wrong with Constance's hair? Clearly Mamie won the wig lottery this season, because Tamla and Ryan both lost out big time.

[thuganomics85]

Hmm, I actually liked this one, even though it was the return of humorless Athos as the lead, which can be a bit too much to take at times.  But, I was glad to take a break from all the palace shenanigans and especially Rouchefort, and just have it be the Musketeers dealing with a situation.  Fun seeing not only the four back together, but even Treville, now a regular old Musketeer, joining in on the heroics.  I do wonder who is actually running the Musketeers now.

 

Also glad we got a bit more humorless exchanges.  My favorite (although, I'm totally butchering it):

 

(Aremis and D'Artagnan placing the explosives)

Aremis: Have you actually seen this work?

D'Artagnan: Well...I've never seen it not work!

 

Catherine though, was a peace of work.  Between her and Milady, Athos seems to get drawn to some pretty shady women.  Jeanee, the bar lady, was hot.  Too bad we'll probably won't see her again.  Probably for the best, since potential Musketeer love interests don't tend to fare well.

 

I can't remember: had it already been revealed that Milday claimed Athos' brother tried to force himself on her, and that's why she killed him?

 

Porthos is really getting tired of Treville's dodging the parent questions.  Love you, Treville, but this isn't going to go well for you, I suspect. 

[ennui]

I started to watch this episode and realized that I've lost interest. Oh, well.

 

I do love the horses, though. Some are Friesians, I believe.

[millennium]

Better!

 

 

I was glad to take a break from all the palace shenanigans and especially Rouchefort, and just have it be the Musketeers dealing with a situation.  Fun seeing not only the four back together, but even Treville, now a regular old Musketeer, joining in on the heroics.  I do wonder who is actually running the Musketeers now.

 

 

This episode demonstrated what dead weight the palace characters are.    The original recipe of Musketeers vs. Richelieu and Milady  is/was the heart of this show.   Unfortunately, Richelieu has been replaced with a conniving fop and Milady has been hijacked by the palace boors.   Worse, the writers are using those boors to fill the vacuum left by Richelieu's departure ... and it isn't working.

 

It's difficult to imagine a despair so grievous it would cause Athos to wash his hands of his past, along with the riches and responsibilities that went with it.   I was surprised his rejection remained intact at the end of the show; I expected he would make an uneasy peace with his legacy, leaving the estate in his ownership but under management of the tenant farmers.   His brother Thomas's wife was a piece of work.    If you ask me, Milady did Thomas a favor.

[ceg1]

I haven't had much to say about the new season. I agree with most of the criticisms, but I still enjoy the show and these guys immensely.

 

I thought this one was one of the best episode of the whole series! In no small part because I loved the whole Magnificent Five Samurai Musketeers plot. There was so much satisfying interaction between the dark hared princes in this one to almost make up for the lack of it all season.

 

And now we have a new player in Catherine. With everything else going on, I'm impressed that they did such a good job introducing her, giving us her story, her emotional state, all that rage motivation for revenge and how and why she got to be so bad-ass with weapons. Look out Milady. I can;t wait to see them square off.

[Llywela]

Thoroughly enjoyed this episode, despite wanting to thump Athos throughout. I have little sympathy or patience for broody emos who like to wallow in their own self-pity, presuming that their own pain is greater than anyone else's and refusing to acknowledge the pain they themselves cause others. Have a little self-awareness, Athos! I really appreciated re-visiting his backstory, though, especially since the show made explicit that however much good he has done as a soldier, his abandonment of his past responsibilities has consequences far beyond the burning down of his old house - consequences that affect the lives of others.

 

I've been re-watching season one - this episode and Knight Takes Queen back-to-back was a real thrill ride, two classic base-under-siege stories. I really miss Richelieu.

[Lugal]

This was the best episode of the season so far.  I have to agree with millenium that the palace characters are dead weight.  This ep was basically a Western (even the music sounded more like a Western) but it gave us a week without Rochefort, so I'm happy.

[Maelstrom]

Finally, an episode of The Musketeers that features the musketeers as the leads! So happy to see the boys back and in top form, doing what they do best - saving the day. And alongside with Treville, no less. Though I agree that a little of broody Athos goes a long way, I'm always happy to get a bit more backstory on any of the boys. Catherine sure was something else - Athos certainly has a type, doesn't he?

 

But, I was glad to take a break from all the palace shenanigans and especially Rouchefort, and just have it be the Musketeers dealing with a situation.

This episode demonstrated what dead weight the palace characters are.    The original recipe of Musketeers vs. Richelieu and Milady  is/was the heart of this show.   Unfortunately, Richelieu has been replaced with a conniving fop and Milady has been hijacked by the palace boors.   Worse, the writers are using those boors to fill the vacuum left by Richelieu's departure ... and it isn't working.

My thoughts exactly! This is the first episode of the second season that actually feels like the same show as the first season, IMO. Looks like next week we're back to the palace mess - at least we got one episode off.

[voiceover]

the whole Magnificent Five Samurai Musketeers plot

 

Ha!!  I was just running in to say that, only not as cleverly as you put it (actually I was going to call it "Musketeer Samurai").

 

Pleasepleaseplease: DON'T let Milady be the innocent victim.  I prefer the bad girl, through & through, whose only redemption is loving Athos.   

Edited February 15, 2015 by voiceover

[Athena]

 

An astronomer gathers the royal party to see an eclipse, but events take a dramatic turn.

 

BBC1: February 20, 2015

BBCA: February 21, 2015

[DCWash]

You know how sometimes you know too much history for your own good, and it gets in the way of enjoying innocent TV shows? Well, here's my bit:

There's a town in Missouri called Ste. Genevieve, settled by the French in the early 18th century, with some of the original architecture still intact. One way they know what's original French architecture, as opposed to slightly later buildings, is that the French build their log houses with the logs running vertically, as opposed to horizontally, which is what we're used to seeing. The rational was that rainwater would drain away better and the logs wouldn't rot as badly. We saw that a number of times in Ste. Genevieve, and I think we saw it some in Louisiana as well. So when Athos stumbled out of the barn and into the bright sunshine and there were all these buildings that looked like they were made out of Lincoln Log kits, I almost yelled out, "That's WRONG! That's not FRENCH!" 

 

Ahem.

 

Other than that it was pretty good. I really liked Catherine as a character. I thought she was pretty loopy by the end, but I thought they did some interesting things with her throughout, yet it was consistently logical that she would be who she was. It was funny that through most of the episode I kept thinking she was really the perfect woman for Athos, if he'd only wake up...until she really, really wasn't. I, also, thought he was going to have that standard wake-up moment where he was going to change his mind and keep the title and become the benevolent comte again, and was rather surprised that he didn't. I can't quite see him as a truly common soldier, though. Surely he's got some other land, or some money socked away someplace, or something like that? 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't object to Catherine killing Milady. I think she's got as much a right to as Athos does, and I love the way she's earned her skills. Doing it with Thomas' pistols is chillingly fitting, too. I hope we see more of her. I like the way she's not quite a female Musketeer. She's aces with the swashbuckling, but she's not dashing. She's not noble. But she's not an ice queen or a sadist, a la Milady, either. She kind of reminds me of Richelieu in that sense. He was the Bad Guy, but at the same time, he was honestly looking out for France's best interests, as he saw them. Catherine is looking out for herself, no doubt about it, but at the same time seems to respect a certain class-bound code of honor. 

[justmehere]

Having the boys interact more in this episode was great, and I like Treville being included and still rather acting as the leader. The ensemble is what makes the show work. But the bad guy and his son were so... cliche, or obvious or something. Certainly annoying.

 

Porthos' story needs to move forward. It might have only been a few episodes, but it feels as if he's been saying "Who's my father? You know more than you're telling me" to Treville for forever already. I want to know more! It's a good story line, so get on with it!

 

I, too, was glad not to see Rochefort this episode. I don't think that having palace elements is a waste, but I don't think they should be as central as they have been either.

 

I'm still glad that Peter Capaldi got a high-profile role like Dr. Who, but wow, his absence is so obvious here. I don't know if it's that necessarily, but some kind of balance is missing this season. The "featured Musketeer" stories feel more isolated than I remember last season's being; the palace stuff is too prominent -- and repetitive even; and Rochefort is just kind of all over the place with the Spanish ambassador stuff and sucking up to the king and his obsession with Anne -- and yet the character feels bland. 

 

Catherine is a great addition and I thought they introduced her really well. They did a really great job of making her a fully rounded character in one episode, and I hope she's around for at least a few more. I'm definitely looking forward to her interactions with DeWinter. But this highlights the problem, too; why have they stumbled so badly with Rochefort? Some of it is the portrayal, but it's the writing too. Or maybe the writing trying to fit the portrayal? I don't know, but it isn't working. Maybe with Catherine in the picture, they'll make her more the antagonist somehow.

[Llywela]

Having the boys interact more in this episode was great, and I like Treville being included and still rather acting as the leader. The ensemble is what makes the show work. But the bad guy and his son were so... cliche, or obvious or something. Certainly annoying.

I, too, was glad not to see Rochefort this episode. I don't think that having palace elements is a waste, but I don't think they should be as central as they have been either.

 

I'm still glad that Peter Capaldi got a high-profile role like Dr. Who, but wow, his absence is so obvious here. I don't know if it's that necessarily, but some kind of balance is missing this season. The "featured Musketeer" stories feel more isolated than I remember last season's being; the palace stuff is too prominent -- and repetitive even; and Rochefort is just kind of all over the place with the Spanish ambassador stuff and sucking up to the king and his obsession with Anne -- and yet the character feels bland. 

 

Catherine is a great addition and I thought they introduced her really well. They did a really great job of making her a fully rounded character in one episode, and I hope she's around for at least a few more. I'm definitely looking forward to her interactions with DeWinter. But this highlights the problem, too; why have they stumbled so badly with Rochefort? Some of it is the portrayal, but it's the writing too. Or maybe the writing trying to fit the portrayal? I don't know, but it isn't working. Maybe with Catherine in the picture, they'll make her more the antagonist somehow.

One thing I did appreciate about the bad guy was that alongside his simple greed and villainy, he also seemed really offended, on a personal level, that an aristocrat should abandon his title and fiefdom - that tiny detail helped round him out a little, for me, and added to the complexity of the scenario being drawn. It was so unthinkable to him - his entire world was built around that strict social order, and he took it really personally. That detail added well to the reactions of the villagers, who similarly live according to that strict social order and were left floundering by its withdrawal. Actions have consequences.

 

As for Rochefort, I think it's a combination of writing and acting. Marc Warren's performance has been very one-note, but the writing also hasn't had the levels of complexity we saw with Richelieu. The very different motivations are key there, I think. With Richelieu there were always wheels within wheels. He had personal ambitions, but he was also devoted to the king, always working toward what he believed was the greater good for France - it made for compelling viewing when those interests came into conflict with his personal ambition/beliefs or with the wellbeing of others. Those conflicts of interest made him unpredictable - you could never quite be sure what he'd do. There were so many layers. Rochefort...doesn't have that. At first I thought there was going to be some complexity - when he first arrived, it was unclear where his primary motivation lay: was he truly a Spanish spy or was he more of a double/triple agent? Alas that early promise has not borne fruit. He is motivated primarily by his own ambition and self-interest, and that makes him predictable, rather than compelling. There's very little cunning about him, and not much conflict either - we never see him struggle with conflicting interests, weighing up odds, making hard choices. He's just an opportunist - in any situation, he will do whatever is best for Rochefort, which generally means sucking up to the King no matter what. I do appreciate the contrast, because the two needed to be very different, but after the layers of complexity we had with Richelieu, it's a big disappointment.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Llywela

[Asha124]

No Rochefort! Yay!

 

I prefer snarky Athos to angsty Athos so I was not happy with his emo attitude. I miss the Musketeer banter that was always present in the first season. This show used to be fun now there is barely one joke per episode.

 

Next epidode looks promising.

[DCWash]

One thing I did appreciate about the bad guy was that alongside his simple greed and villainy, he also seemed really offended, on a personal level, that an aristocrat should abandon his title and fiefdom - that tiny detail helped round him out a little, for me, and added to the complexity of the scenario being drawn. It was so unthinkable to him - his entire world was built around that strict social order, and he took it really personally.

 

That whole thing really foreshadowed the French Revolution nicely, didn't it? 

 

I prefer snarky Athos to angsty Athos so I was not happy with his emo attitude.

 

I dunno, I can handle some angsty Athos. It's sunlit flashbacky Athos I get tired of. (Though I came to realize part of my problem was that iPlayer kept getting hung up and buffering, making all the scenes seem much longer than they really were. When I reloaded and watched one without the rebuffering and it zipped along, then....oh! that was much better because the pacing was so much less lugubrious!) There was one scene, in the armaments cellar with D'Artagnon that I thought was perfectly played: I can't remember the exact line, but Athos was handling a weapon and said something about it being "battered but serviceable" and D'Artagnon quipped, "What, are you talking about the pistol or yourself?" Athos let loose with this beaming smile for a moment at the joke...and then his face just fell, like his heart broke all over again at the reality of how far he had fallen, and that made D'Artagnon's heart break, and he kind of embraced Athos....and, like I said, the whole thing was played just perfectly.We got so much with so little! Plus a rare Athos smile. That scene, and some earlier dialogue between Athos and D'Artagnon about Athos renouncing his title, reminded me that D'Artagnon was himself and estate owner, in Gascony--one of the bad guys last season burned his holdings, which were his only source of income, I remember--and that is something pretty profound that the two of them have in common, that heritage and responsibility.

 

On a lighter note, did anybody recognize Colin from "Rev"? He's the new mayor of Pinon! And the dissolute son of the bad guy reminded me of a young Rufus Sewell. Not nearly as hot, but like they'd be closely related or something.

[Llywela]

That scene, and some earlier dialogue between Athos and D'Artagnon about Athos renouncing his title, reminded me that D'Artagnon was himself and estate owner, in Gascony--one of the bad guys last season burned his holdings, which were his only source of income, I remember--and that is something pretty profound that the two of them have in common, that heritage and responsibility.

True - although of course, D'Artagnan only had a farm, nothing like Athos's grand estate and title. Much further down the pecking order. But he'd still have had tenants working that farm to give him his income - a gentleman, but not titled.

 

I think Aramis is the only one of the four whose background remains hazy. Athos was a Comte and has the tragic backstory with Milady. D'Artagnan came from a farm in Gascony and we met his father. Porthos came from the slums of Paris, born to an ex-slave who died when he was young, leaving him to fend for himself on the streets, father unknown (but clearly to be revealed later this season). But Aramis? We know he got his girlfriend pregnant at 16 and wanted to marry her and we know his father had ambitions for him to enter the priesthood, but other than that, nothing. We don't know what kind of family he came from, their social standing (why he speaks Spanish) - there's a gap for the show to fill at some point!

[ganesh]

Porthos is really getting tired of Treville's dodging the parent questions.

 

Yeah, but if they want to be a bit cheeky, they can bust out the "No. *I* am your father" line. I mean, come on. Use it if you can. 

 

Have a little self-awareness, Athos!

 

To be fair, he did come around to the fact that it wasn't fair for his bs to come down on the townspeople. The brooding was a little much. Though it was funny that his supposed subjects drugged him and tied him up.

 

That whole thing really foreshadowed the French Revolution nicely, didn't it?

 

oooooohhhhhhhhhh. #MindBlown 

I was watching and thinking about how I liked the show because the people were encouraged to make their own decisions about what they wanted to do. I didn't make the connection, but obviously. 

 

I am *all* for any kind of "defend your home and your lives" type of stuff. This was right in my wheelhouse. 

 

A large part of the books was about the political intrigue, so the show kind of has to include that. It's hard to sustain over 10-13 hours of show though, so I think it's a good idea to have an episode like this. 

[Ravenya003]

I don't go around with slash-googles on, but I honestly thought Constance and the Queen were going to make out when they were reunited at the end there. I think the actresses are just doing whatever the hell they want at this stage, D'artagnan and Aramis be damned. 

 

Milady had a fun episode as well, though it's a shame her status as the King's mistress is over before it's even fully begun. I was looking forward to some more Milady/Rochefort power plays.

 

But as ever, the show seems inexplicably fascinated with Rochefort and Louis to the detriment of everyone else. If Rochefort was halfway competent and subtle it would be one thing, but for the past few weeks the formula has been the Musketeers getting shit done, and Rochefort muscling his way in at the end to take all the credit. And his delusions about the Queen returning his feelings are just pitiful - I'm actually looking forward to him finding out that she loves Aramis (and hopefully it will lead to his death when the Musketeers are forced to silence him. I wouldn't mind if the Queen herself gave that order).

 

Also, these life or death situations would be a little bit more suspenseful if we knew the main cast didn't have plot armour and/or historical immunity.  

[Llywela]

But as ever, the show seems inexplicably fascinated with Rochefort and Louis to the detriment of everyone else. If Rochefort was halfway competent and subtle it would be one thing, but for the past few weeks the formula has been the Musketeers getting shit done, and Rochefort muscling his way in at the end to take all the credit.  

Yes. I was really enjoying the episode until it returned to that tired formula at the end - all the more disappointing since the reason I'd enjoyed it was because it had been mixing things up so much. It brought Rochefort and Milady's interests into alignment with the Musketeers and forced them to work together, with occasionally unpredictable results - I actually really love that having acted in the clear and present greater good, for once, Milady suffered the same consequences the Musketeers always do for doing the right and honourable thing: the King's censure. Because that wasn't predictable, it keeps her story interesting and moving forward. The story brought Aramis, Anne and Marguerite into the same room at the same time, and as a result I think Marguerite is beginning to see which way the wind truly blows. The story brought D'Artagnan and Constance back together - who'd have predicted that, last episode? Even allowing for plot armour on the part of the regulars, there were plenty of twists and turns and unpredictable outcomes, which I really enjoyed...and then it went and spoiled it all by reverting to form, Rochefort getting all the praise for the achievements of the Musketeers. This is clearly building up to some massive fallout at the end of the season, but I'm really tired of it now. He'd be so much more interesting as a character if he actually lost once in a while.

 

I also couldn't help noticing that even though Aramis was the one who fell out of an upper story window, Porthos was the one who ended up with the noteworthy injury once more!

Edited February 21, 2015 by Llywela

[Asha124]

Yes. I was really enjoying the episode until it returned to that tired formula at the end - all the more disappointing since the reason I'd enjoyed it was because it had been mixing things up so much. It brought Rochefort and Milady's interests into alignment with the Musketeers and forced them to work together, with occasionally unpredictable results - I actually really love that having acted in the clear and present greater good, for once, Milady suffered the same consequences the Musketeers always do for doing the right and honourable thing: the King's censure. Because that wasn't predictable, it keeps her story interesting and moving forward. The story brought Aramis, Anne and Marguerite into the same room at the same time, and as a result I think Marguerite is beginning to see which way the wind truly blows. The story brought D'Artagnan and Constance back together - who'd have predicted that, last episode? Even allowing for plot armour on the part of the regulars, there were plenty of twists and turns and unpredictable outcomes, which I really enjoyed...and then it went and spoiled it all by reverting to form, Rochefort getting all the praise for the achievements of the Musketeers. This is clearly building up to some massive fallout at the end of the season, but I'm really tired of it now. He'd be so much more interesting as a character if he actually lost once in a while.

 

This! I didn't even hate Rochefort this episode until Louis gave him credit for the rescue once again. Otherwise I really liked this episode even though I was rolling my eyes at the cheesy D'Artagnan/Constance ending. Everybody was just standing there watching them and smiling. It was a little creepy.

 

Athos and his "And... come straight back" to Aramis cracked me up. What was he thinking? That Aramis would jump the queen as soon as they were safe?

 

[Souris]

Athos and his "And... come straight back" to Aramis cracked me up. What was he thinking? That Aramis would jump the queen as soon as they were safe?

 

LOL. He has reason to be a bit paranoid there. I also enjoyed his "That's either a wounded bull or Porthos." Porthos sure does get hurt a lot.

 

I had to roll my eyes at the bad guy (I cannot remember either of his names) letting Constance and D'Artagnan hang around and natter at him. Like he wouldn't have had them locked in a room with the rest of the courtiers. Or killed. But they got the Main Cast Exception.

 

Oh, yeah, Marguerite is getting clued in on what's up with Anne and Aramis. Anne thankfully remembered she was there before things got too out of hand.

 

I'm glad that Anne and Constance are friends.

 

I so hope Rochefort is exposed at the end of the season and meets a grim fate. I don't fancy him continuing as the main antagonist.

[thuganomics85]

I enjoyed the majority of the episode until, of course, it somehow ended up finding a way for Louis to think Rochefort is the Big Damn Hero, and, in turn, start shitting over the Musketeers.  I get that they can't really fight back too much, because this dude can not only fire them put jail them/execute them, but I have to think D'Artagnan was really whispering to himself "Why do I keep helping out this pampered asshole?!", when that happened.  But, I'm just getting tired of it.  I never felt like Richelieu needed this much propping up to be considered a main adversary: maybe that was just because Peter Calpaldi was awesome enough that it wasn't needed.

 

Still, I enjoyed the rest of it, despite the far-fetch moments (of course, Aramis would survive that fall) and the cheesy kiss at the end. I liked the return of wise-ass Athos, how they found a way for Milady to participate in the rescue, and Treville not letting his demotion stop him from doing the right thing.  Even the kiss was somewhat saved by everyone else's reactions.  Anne in particular, looked almost as happy as they did.  This was probably the most I felt like Anne and Constance had a friendship.

 

Marguerite definitely seems to be onto Aramis/Anne now, so I'm sure that is going to be a problem.

 

Loved that one bit where that young Musketeer kept staring at Milady, when was coming to find Athos/Treville.  Wasn't even in one of her typical cleavage-baring dresses: that kid really would have lost his mind then.

 

I will say that Porthos/Rochefort was probably the most fun I found Rochefort to be, but that just could be because Porthos plays off him very well.

[DCWash]

One thing I liked about this episode early on was I guess what you'd call the production values. I mean, this whole series is rich that way, but this episode really succeeded in being impressive when it counted. So often Louis is shown as being giddy with pleasure at something that really isn't that big a deal, even to aristocrats of his time, and it just makes him look silly--which is probably the point. But this time, the fancy brass mechanical models of the solar system, the masque Louis had people acting out, the way those things were shot, all of it together really worked in building up the effects of splendor and glamor and mystery and eeriness.

 

Did y'all recognize the masks the henchmen were wearing early on? Those were specifically worn by plague doctors. The reason for the long beaks was that the doctors could put herbs and other aromatics and fumigants in the end of the mask to filter out toxins in the air they breathed when they were out in the plague-filled streets and treating plague-ridden patients. Because of that, it didn't sit right for me when I first saw them. I thought the guests from the court should recognize the masks and feel uneasy because of them. It took a while, but when Mr. Bad Guy finally brought up the subject of plague, then they made sense, but still, everybody that saw them should have at least thought they were in bad taste, even if they did suspect them to have a hidden meaning.

[Llywela]

I never felt like Richelieu needed this much propping up to be considered a main adversary: maybe that was just because Peter Calpaldi was awesome enough that it wasn't needed.

 

This was probably the most I felt like Anne and Constance had a friendship.

 

I will say that Porthos/Rochefort was probably the most fun I found Rochefort to be, but that just could be because Porthos plays off him very well.

Richelieu certainly did not need this much propping up - but then again, he was better supported by the writing to begin with. He always had so much going on, so many balls in the air, he was constantly juggling priorities and he didn't always win - that was what kept him so interesting. Like I said earlier, he was unpredictable. Something about his combination of devotion to France, self-interest and extreme pragmatism meant you could never be entirely sure what he'd do at any given moment. It made him dangerous, but could also make him an ally in unexpected circumstances. And despite being so powerful, our heroes occasionally outwitted him, which maintained some kind of balance. Rochefort doesn't have any of that. He is written purely as a moustache twirling comic-book villain, who cares about nothing but his own interests yet does a wonderful job of sucking up to the king in order to inflate his own worth and power. He never loses, and our heroes are never allowed to come out on top. It's just so much flatter than the rollercoaster that was their dynamic with Richelieu last season.

 

Playing him off against Porthos did make him more interesting than usual here - in the same way that he was interesting in the season opener when he had to work with the Musketeers. I think what gave the interaction that interest value was the fact that it broke the norm - for once his interests were aligned with those of our heroes instead of constantly working to undermine them, it made him potentially unpredictable...until the status quo reasserted itself at the end.

 

I do appreciate that the show is showing us a close friendship between Anne and Constance. I just really wish we'd been allowed to see it develop - if there had been just one scene of Constance arriving at the palace for her new job, interacting with Anne as an awkward stranger, a draper's wife in the palace and a real fish out of water, with some kind of trivial incident to break the ice and reveal them to one another as potential kindred spirits - a foundation on which this friendship could have been built. As it is, we saw them meet for the first time in what amounted to a formal job interview, no personal interaction at all, and the next time we saw them together they were besties. I really feel an important step was skipped.

Did y'all recognize the masks the henchmen were wearing early on? Those were specifically worn by plague doctors.

Yep, I spotted them and wondered at once what the significance was - beyond them also being excellent masks to ill-intent hide behind.

[voiceover]

I actually teared up when the Bad Guy's brother died.  Probably because he had me engaged and sympathetic, as opposed to many of the Villains of the Week.

 

Most of what I thought of this one, you guys have already written.   So I'll just repeat what I said before: Louis is turning into the Frank Burns of this show.  The M*A*S*H character was always the buffoon; never grew, never learned ANYthing -- it's a credit to Larry Linville that he was at least entertaining.

The premiere ep had me thinking that this season, Anne would turn bad and Louis would be the (occasional) good guy, but that lasted...til the second episode.

 

Three cheers for the return of snarky Athos!

Edited February 22, 2015 by voiceover

[silverstream]

That whole thing really foreshadowed the French Revolution nicely, didn't it?

 

That was my problem with this episode - legally, Renard would be perfectly entitled to have all of the villagers executed for murder and treason. Also, there is just no legal way Athos can declare a village as 'not belonging to a noble' in that time period in France (though I'm not actually sure whether he just made the inkeeper his executive and didn't renounce his title after all?).

 

It would have made more sense if Renard had just been the head of a band of robbers (the house they were in certainly didn't look like a Baron's residence!), but for a peasent to resist a noble, much less raise arms against him, would have been an instant death sentence by the laws of the time. For a while I though Athos would transfer his lands to Catherine (i.e., another noble), but as it is this episode just left me very confused.

Edited February 22, 2015 by silverstream

[Occasional Hope]

"Also, these life or death situations would be a little bit more suspenseful if we knew the main cast didn't have plot armour and/or historical immunity."

That didn't help the Cardinal.

(Though in general I agree with you.)

[Ravenya003]

Something about his combination of devotion to France, self-interest and extreme pragmatism meant you could never be entirely sure what he'd do at any given moment. It made him dangerous, but could also make him an ally in unexpected circumstances.

 

 

 

My favourite Richelieu moment was probably when he chose to let Ninon go instead of burning her at the stake. By that point he'd gotten what he wanted (all her money) and didn't really see any need to burn an innocent woman to death (I think he actually said "I'm not a cruel man.")

 

If Rochefort was in the same situation, I can totally see him shrugging his shoulders and letting her burn. 

 

So I'll just repeat what I said before: Louis is turning into the Frank Burns of this show.  The M*A*S*H character was always the buffoon; never grew, never learned ANYthing -- it's a credit to Larry Linville that he was at least entertaining.

 

 

He reminds me of Agravaine from Merlin - equally annoying, obviously evil, and inexplicably popular with the royal family.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Ravenya003

[justmehere]

I was ready to say "all's forgiven" with this episode, but then they had to end it the way they did. Well, pretty close; I just hope they get to a point soon with Rochefort. I did enjoy his scenes with Porthos.

 

Loved Athos' snark. And I'm glad Milady got kicked out. I just couldn't stand the brutality of Anne having to put up with her. I knew Louis wouldn't forgive her. He had to lash out at someone. I did ache for Louis during most of it; he really was in agony, and I loved Ryan Gage's performance.

 

One other problem was the kiss at the end, for more than cheesiness. Constance is a married woman, and I don't believe that the queen could have an "adulteress" in her service. I'd think that display would be enough to dismiss her at the very least (if not have her arrested or something), yet they're all just standing there smiling. It seemed way off.
 

Edited February 23, 2015 by justmehere

[Maelstrom]

This week on Musketeers… Die Hard in a castle! With plaque masks!

 

The good:

- Athos and Milady working together (is it just me or do they have some smokin' chemistry? Just me? OK)

- The return of DeadpanSnarker!Athos

- The boys (and Treville) kicking ass and taking names

- Milady kicking ass and taking names

- Porthos and Rochefort having to work together

- Ryan Gage showing Louis' turmoil. RG is the only reason that Louis is still watchable, and I thought he did a truly wonderful job in this episode.

 

The bad:

- Milady's hair. WTH is with the wigs this year?

- Porthos getting injured. Again. Seriously show, why do you hate Porthos? Especially since, as Llywela pointed out, Aramis was the one who fell out of an upper story window!

- Aramis rescuing his current GF and his ex. Awkward!

- A predictable twist with the ringleader's brother having a conscience, and ultimately sacrificing himself while the ringleader stares in shock at what he's done. It wasn't terrible (and the actor playing the brother sold it) but it's nothing I haven't seen a thousand times on a thousand other shows.

 

The ugly:

- That ending. This "Musketeers bad, Rochefort good" trope isn't doing this show any favors. It's moved from annoying to downright ridiculous, and it's damaged Louis almost beyond salvaging. (see my comments re: Ryan Gage above). As others have pointed out far more eloquently than I could, it's flattened out the show and reducing the writing, and therefore the characters, to caricatures. This show can (and should) do better.

[catray]

Not a big fan of the Athos angsty man-pain episodes, but this wasn't a terrible episode. I like the Musketeers, including Treville, coming to the aid of Athos and then aiding the villagers in their quest to keep their land-- and helping snap Athos (mostly) out of his funk. I especially liked the moments between Athos and D'Artagnan in the armament cellar.

 

Catherine was a piece of work, I like her. She seems like she's off her rocker a bit-- but it seems like she might pop up again trying to kill Milady, which has some promise. I would certainly be ok that. Or she'll just be out to get revenge on Athos, which... yawn. I'd rather see her take down Milady.

[Llywela]

I think the other big difference between Richelieu and Rochefort is that Richelieu was extremely proactive, where Rochefort is almost entirely reactive. Richelieu was always plotting, always had some scheme or six bubbling away, to do with foreign policy or treasury or to secure the dynasty or whatever - that was a big part of the reason why he didn't always win, because however carefully he planned, he couldn't allow for every variable and so things didn't always pay off for him. It kept things interesting, because he had his fingers in so many pies and wasn't afraid to take risks for a cause he believed in, for better or for worse. Rochefort doesn't take anything like the same risks, not even when he was being a double agent for Spain. He doesn't have the multiplicity of agendas that Richelieu always had going on. He's just out for himself, out to secure his own interests, so he doesn't plan, he doesn't push forward his own ideas, he just waits to see how things are panning out at any given moment and then nails his colours to the victorious mast, so to speak. He doesn't make things happen, simply reacts to them when they do. He doesn't hold to any principles or beliefs, simply goes along with whatever will secure his own interests at any given moment. That's why he always 'wins'. And it's why he's so dull, and why his part in the seasonal story desperately needs to be shaken up. We need to see him with something at stake, need to see him lose - need something to change.

 

I mean, even if all they did was explore his time in that Spanish prison and how it perhaps shaped him into what he is today, that at least would be something!

Edited February 23, 2015 by Llywela

[Marie Claudine]

I thought the guests from the court should recognize the masks and feel uneasy because of them. It took a while, but when Mr. Bad Guy finally brought up the subject of plague, then they made sense, but still, everybody that saw them should have at least thought they were in bad taste, even if they did suspect them to have a hidden meaning.

 

Actually, I thought it made sense. The real plague doctor masks were rarely white, and not as open from below. They looked a little like gas masks, but with a beak. What the henchmen wore looks more like the commedia dell'arte and Venice carnival version of these masks, which became very popular in the mid-17th century. There were other imitations of the plague doctor's masks throughout Europe in the 17th century, all white rather than brown or grey, some for carnival, some for masked balls, and they all had one thing in common: they were not so much considered bad taste, but an allegory, a kind of memento mori. People do not seem to have felt offended. In a presentation like the one with the henchmen, which showcased the eternal movement of the planets (as opposed to man's short and ineffective life), this seemed to me like an allegory which a 17th-century person would have easily accepted. Or at least not found suspicious or offensive.

 

I agree very much with everyone who said that the ending was cheesy. I really enjoyed the episode - up until the last 5 minutes with Constance and d'Artagnan kissing and publicly not giving a damn about her husband, and Louis all but kissing Rochefort and publicly not giving a damn about the musketeers. It's getting old, and I still don't know when Anne and Constance became such inseparable friends.

All in all, with last episode's battle and this episode's action, I feel like we are on the right track again, though. The first three episodes of this season had me a bit worried, but I feel like it has been uphill from there - even though I, too, think that exchanging Richelieu for Rochefort was a poor bargain indeed.

 

The queen's sarcastic face when the king humiliated her with his little sun/moon/earth display was priceless. Also, it seemed like literally everyone present was done with Louis's shenanigans at this point - and he still didn't get it. He sure dotes on Aramis's baby, though :-).

 

Oh, and I kind of loved how they needed four men to get Porthos into the dungeon, but only one for Rochefort.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Marie Claudine

[Pogojoco]

This show needs better writing. I like the chemistry of the cast (esp the Musketeers) but it's not zinging like it should. And Porthos, who is my favourite, needs to be used more creatively. He's got all that presence and physicality and they don't use him. 

 

Love snarky Athos. 

 

I liked Constance and D'Artagnan last season, but their reunion this episode just made me roll my eyes. I love you. You're so brave. I'm married. I don't care anymore that I'm married. And around and around it goes. 

 

And whoever is doing the hair for the women needs to be smacked around.

[Athena]

The King’s cousin is ambushed while under Musketeer escort as she travels from Mantua to Sweden to make a political marriage that will be advantageous to France. The Musketeers must quickly discover who is targeting her to keep both her and the alliance between countries protected. However it emerges that other important figures at Court also appear to be in danger. Who is the killer and could he already be inside the Palace walls?

 

BBC1: February 27, 2015.

BBCA: February 28, 2015.

[millennium]

My favourite Richelieu moment was probably when he chose to let Ninon go instead of burning her at the stake. By that point he'd gotten what he wanted (all her money) and didn't really see any need to burn an innocent woman to death (I think he actually said "I'm not a cruel man.")

 

If Rochefort was in the same situation, I can totally see him shrugging his shoulders and letting her burn. 

 

 

He reminds me of Agravaine from Merlin - equally annoying, obviously evil, and inexplicably popular with the royal family.

 

Ha!  I am watching Merlin for the first time now, currently in Season 4, the Agravaine season.   This sort of character is by now a terrible cliche -- the king's confidante who secretly plots his ruin.   But what can you do except clench your teeth and let the predictability wash over you?

 

I say the devil with Treville!  Appoint Milady captain of the Musketeers.   How convenient that the garrison had a fetching little riding outfit at the ready for her.   Loved her with the drumstick.    That woman can do no wrong in my eyes.

[millennium]

This show needs better writing. I like the chemistry of the cast (esp the Musketeers) but it's not zinging like it should.

 

You are correct.    The plots are flabby.   So many wasted opportunities for tighter action and wittier repartee.

 

Louis is a huge problem in this show.   He's the 17th-century Dr. Smith.   And he gets the last word in nearly every episode.  His bawling in this ep was insufferable.   Even the worst king in fiction would never be so easily reduced to hysterics.    I felt ashamed for all of us who had to watch it.

[Marie Claudine]

Appoint Milady captain of the Musketeers.   How convenient that the garrison had a fetching little riding outfit at the ready for her.

 

Heh - good point! I laughed when I first saw that. Especially since she ordered Athos to fetch her something to wear, and next we see her she is wearing this very flattering outfit which doesn't exactly say: "I hate this woman and will jump at the opportunity to make her look like a sack of potatoes, so at least her looks won't trouble my already troubled mind" - which he easily could have done, had he just given her regular musketeer gear.

 

I really like that they seem to try and redeem Milady. I know that's ridiculous, given her murderous record, but I enjoy her far too much to care sufficiently about that.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Marie Claudine

[Athena]

It does seem the show that Louis has some weird crush on Rochefort's abilities. It's become silly that Louis just takes his side when the Musketeers did all the rescuing. I knew Louis would not like Milady disobeying him in public even in life/death situation. Louis is a dick that way.

 

Rochefort is very delusional: "She feels the same way about me." Really? I still find him hilariously creepy.

 

Still liking Anne/Aramis, but lots of trouble in store for those.

 

I have never cared about Constance/D'Artagnan and I still don't. Very corny ending.

[scarynikki12]

Rochefort is very delusional: "She feels the same way about me."

 

He's delusional but also accurate.  I think that Anne felt friendship and affection for Rochefort before his imprisonment and feels the same way now that he's back.  No change on her side.  Where he fails at life is thinking the only thing keeping her from jumping his bones is her marriage to Louis.  I can't wait to see his face when he figures out that she loves Aramis.  I just hope his treason will already have been discovered so any accusations will be dismissed as the last ditch efforts of a condemned man rather than a big reveal that takes Anne down with him. 

 

I like that the Anne/Aramis relationship has actual, big deal, problems.  There's the obvious: she's married.  Then there's the reality that she's a foreign born queen (expected with the way alliances worked back then but still breeds mistrust among the French people-see Catherine de Medici and Marie Antoinette for more famous examples), her husband the king has the power to execute anyone he damn well pleases, and the Musketeers aren't on his Christmas card list at the moment.  She gets discovered and her only chance at avoiding execution is the hope that Louis will spare her to avoid war with Spain and that her brother won't condemn her himself.  Even if all that happens is that Aramis' feelings get discovered and they successfully cover up Anne's side, he'll still be facing execution.  They aren't thinking clearly and I'm loving it.  I do understand this episode, as they were very aware of how close they and the Dauphin came to death, so their emotions came to the surface and they forgot themselves for a moment.  Understandable and sets up a lot of potentially great things for their part of the series. 

 

I really enjoyed Milady working with Athos to save people.  I love that she didn't hesitate to go to him for help and he was willing to believe her once she arrived.  I'm intrigued at the idea of her becoming a genuine ally, though not a full member of the team.  She's always going to look out for Number 1, as she should, but that may very well put her interests in line with theirs and more often than they might think.  If she does end up working alongside the team on occasion it could be really fun for the show.

[Athena]

He's delusional but also accurate.  I think that Anne felt friendship and affection for Rochefort before his imprisonment and feels the same way now that he's back.  No change on her side.  Where he fails at life is thinking the only thing keeping her from jumping his bones is her marriage to Louis.  I can't wait to see his face when he figures out that she loves Aramis.  I just hope his treason will already have been discovered so any accusations will be dismissed as the last ditch efforts of a condemned man rather than a big reveal that takes Anne down with him.

 

She definitely does have some affection for him, but he really believes that she's always loved him or would if he weren't married. Those creepy prostitution role plays more or less say what the thinks will happen when he gets rid of her husband. Of course, he doesn't know about Aramis. :)

 

I just feel very afraid for Anne and Aramis in that case.

 

Aramis jumped or climbed out of a window in S1 too. It's a reoccurring theme for him.

[Llywela]

Well, so Rochefort was actually a bit proactive in this episode but still utterly vile, we got to see Dr Hottie again (I'm sure he has an actual name), several other sub-plots moved forward (goodbye, Bonacieux!), and I found myself really wanting for Aramis to get injured sometime, just to see how the other Musketeers cope when they don't have their designated first aider to rely on in an injury crisis.

 

Edited to add: Lemay! His name is Lemay. Why can I never remember that?

Edited February 27, 2015 by Llywela

[Jazzy24]

^I read that Santi is afraid of heights so Aramis being thrown out a window and him scaling it terrified him but that stunt was cool and he faced his fear.

I love Aramis and Anne so I liked their moments.

I liked Rochfort with Porthos and Athos continues to be hilarious.

I loved the affection everyone still has for Triville and how they continue to call him captain.

The King was ridiculous his one redeeming characteristic was his worry for the Queen and Dauphin.

D'Artagnan and Constance I like apart but I feel nothing for them together and the ending was corny.

[voiceover]

Because I couldn't think of where else to post this:

Two fingers up to BBCA, who tonight airs the show only once, with no repeat.  God forbid we miss Doctor Who reruns.

 

First they cut the rerun of last week's ep to intro the current ep, then the midweek showing, and now...this.

Hey programmer putzes!! not all of us have a dvr.

[Marie Claudine]

I love how the one giveaway for every mean person is always Spanish gold. It would be a lot less risky for Rochefort to pay his henchmen (and -women) with French gold, but he seems to want to get his Spanish funds into the French system at all cost.

 

Loved Aramis's awkward face when Marguerite hugged him. I am curious what's in store for him and Anne.

 

I was a bit shocked by how quickly the writers disposed of Monsieur Bonacieux now that Constance has finally chosen d'Artagnan.

[voiceover]

So the King is Frank Burns, and Rochefort is...Cal from Titanic.  *snore*  Christopher Lee played that character in the Richard Lester films, and he was much more interesting.  btw, whose body was in the chest? was that the Anne-hooker, or the slain real princess?

 

Nice twist w/the female assassin.  Before that reveal,  I was thinking that Milady was going to blackmail her way back in via Assassin #2.

 

Lemay is a likable character, and I foresee him coming between Constance and big D.

[DCWash]

I have really come to believe Marc Warren is a one-series wonder with this show. I quite literally can't imagine how they're going to stretch his character out into the next series.

 

For anybody who's curious, The Siege of La Rochelle. Though it seems poor La Rochelle has been besieged a number of times. I'm glad they're getting into the Wars of Religion of the 17th Century, though I don't know that you can blame Louis that much for all of them, even though at least some of them happened under his reign--he was so young, I'm willing to give him a pass for at least some of what sounds like atrocities. In fact, the more I read, the more it seems like he had to put up with a lot of ill will for things that he could somewhat legitimately consider things that were not his fault, which the show seems to build into its characterization. If you've read up on it. If you haven't, he's just a whiner, which seems to me to be a valid way to see the TV character, too.

 

I was very pleased that Aramis was shown to be medically skillful, but only up to a point, and when he reached that point, he owned up to it and gave way to the doctor. All of that seemed like as it should be for a soldier who was frequently left to his own devices in the field. And I was very pleased that the doctor seemed to know that boiling water was efficacious, but owned up to the fact that he didn't know why. For generations, people knew that scrubbing surfaces down, dowsing things with boiling water and alcohol (in the form of spirits like brandy or wine), etc., produced results and so they did it. They couldn't tell you about microbes and germ theory, but they knew it worked, and that cleanliness led to quicker healing and lower mortality than dirty wounds and surfaces, so they paid attention to it. What he said seems about accurate for an attentive and educated doctor of the 17th century--not out in left field, not reactionary.

 

Maybe it's because I'm about his age, but I'm extremely fond of Treville. I like the way he's very much a Musketeer, but looks at things a bit differently simply because he's a different generation from the rest of the Main Four. And they respect him for that. I'd like to hear more about his history. Those Wars of Religion? I'm sure he took part. 

[thuganomics85]

Have to admit, I didn't see Louise being a assassin coming.  I just assumed the "twist" was going to be she secretly was "in love" with her traveling companion, who I assumed was just a commoner, so that was pretty cool.  Took me a bit to place the actress, but I realized that she played Mary Boleyn in The Tudors, which I got a kick out, since I spent the majority of the episode thinking she sounded like she could be Natalie Dormer's sister, and well, they did play sisters on that show!

 

Part of me was a bit worried they would kill Treville, but I'm glad it was a fake-out.  Also glad that it seems this near death experience is going to make him finally tell Porthos everything.  Don't let me down, Treville!

 

Constance's husband is done for, and yet I still think she and D'Artagnan may not be in the clear.  I have a feeling something is up with the doctor; there is been a few moments with him and Constance that make me think he's being set up as a romantic rival.

 

Marguerite is now being forced by Rochefort to keep tabs on Aramis and Anne.  That can't be good.  At least Rochefort is finally actually doing things, but, once again, episode ends with him getting a big victory.  The Musketeers refusing to bow I guess was suppose to be a minor hell yeah moment, but it ain't enough for me.  This battle has just been so one-sided.  Maybe Milady and her knowledge of what he attempted to do, will shake things up.  I at least enjoy watching her scheme and be evilish.

 

Favorite scene was probably Athos and Porthos questioning the weapon maker.  Both of them were being wise-asses, which I always approve of.

[Souris]

 btw, whose body was in the chest? was that the Anne-hooker, or the slain real princess?

 

The councillor that Rochefort stabbed, the one who told him Richelieu wouldn't ransom him because he thought Rochefort was bonkers.

 

Richelieu, still right from the grave.

[Marie Claudine]

Richelieu, still right from the grave.

 

Yes, I like that. RIchelieu had Rochefort exact, too. The man is bonkers, which is about the only thing that can be said to salvage his cartoonish evilness at this point.

 

I will say that it was not very kind of Anne to give away a cross she had been given by Rochefort. Even more so since she put Aramis on the spot in Season 1 when he gave it to Ninon de la Roque (was that her name?) for comfort ("I did not expect my gift to you around the Comtesse's neck").