S01.E04: Trivial Pursuits

[Athena]

Quote

Freddy aims to show his father that he's not "just a firefighter," but rather part of a noble and fulfilling cause--then picks the worst possible day to invite Frasier to the firehouse.

 

[shapeshifter]

Definitely an improvement, IMO.

The dog call back was well done. This show definitely assumes the audience is familiar with the OG Frasier. 

But at the time this episode was written, it seems like they were still trying out different personalities on Eve.

I wonder if the Dumb Firefighter schtick we were complaining about was just a set up for the reveal that they aren't? Or did someone have to point out to the writers that firefighters are not stupid?

Edited October 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[In2You]

I enjoyed this episode a lot better than last episode. 

It wasn't hammy and over the top.

There were some funny moments and the cast really clicked here.

[AnnaCody]

Best part: the dog 😂 And what a beauty!

[Sarah 103]

When Frasier was talking to Eve at the bar, I'm surprised they didn't go for a joke about bartenders being a poor man's shrink or something similar. 

As soon as Frasier was watching the news broadcast on the fire and started talking, I was waiting for them to mention Martin. I thought it was touching that Frasier was worried about Freddie, and after spending so many years worrying about his father, he did not want to go through that again.

The Dalmatian was adorable and young. I want to see more of him or her.

David is a disappointment. They are writing him as a cute sitcom kid when he is almost an adult. I want to see an episode/plotline that is Freddie and David together without Frasier. I want to see what the relationship dynamic is like between the cousins. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Sarah 103

[Cherry Styles]

Alan and his dream on line to Eve was hilarious. 

The dog was so cute! Was it a secret shoutout to Eddie, whose real name was Moose, to have Moose talk to Frasier when the dog was in the scene? Or am I over thinking it? 

[Magnumfangirl]

2 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

Was it a secret shoutout to Eddie, whose real name was Moose, to have Moose talk to Frasier when the dog was in the scene?

I think it was.  

The David story was silly, but overall a good episode.

[Guest]

That was so much better. They added depth to the other firefighters and actually showed Freddy’s intelligence and the impact of his upbringing. This goes a long way to differentiate him from Martin.

I like that they showed why both Freddy and Frasier were acting they way they have been and found a way to parallel the Martin and Frasier relationship in interesting ways. Eve works much better in this role.  

The thing with David was awful but it did have some moderate laughs and I didn’t find him completely unwatchable. 

Olivia and Alan feel like they were a completely different show. 

[Annber03]

Yeah, I really liked the whole thing with Freddie and Frasier this episode, too. It makes total sense Frasier would freak out about Freddie's job, the way he did Martin's. I liked the story about how he and Niles would deal with that worry when they were kids. The ending was nice ,too.

I also loved the dog :D. Super cute, and Frasier's reaction to it staring at him was great XD. 

[Lois Sandborne]

This episode was fun. There were some great lines. ("I bet you thought that All's Well that Ends Well business had ended. Well ...") ("Take that, Occam's Razor!") I can accept that this new show is going for more emotion and sentimentality than OG Frasier, but those scenes haven't been landing for me. The heart-to-heart with Eve felt a little leaden. The jokes were cracking though.

I'm guessing the fire crew is supposed to serve the function of the KACL crew. That's a good way to get more recurring characters and personalities in the mix, especially if the entire Harvard psych department is just going to be Alan and Olivia. It's hard for me to believe the fire department and apparently all of Harvard just so happen to frequent the same bar, but it's very sitcommy, and very Cafe Nervosa.

I still really hate Freddy. The writing for him is so one-note, the characterization is bad. And I think the actor is making it worse with his choices. He pulls so many faces and little hammy poses when he's delivering his lines that it just heightens my focus on how smug and negative the character is. He's hot though. Come on arms.

This is probably an unpopular opinion too, but I like David. There are problems with his character. He's inconsistent; is he an absent-minded book nymph or some sort of child in an adult suit? And they've underwritten whatever his roles are supposed to be in Frasier's life and Freddy's life. But I think he has promise. He's obviously supposed to be holding up the "farce" torch of the original show all on his own, and that's an easy way to get on my side. I just think he's been poorly served by the writing. I don't think this new crop is up to the challenge.

Like this week, the whole orphan thing. Frasier Prime definitely drew a lot of water from the mistaken identity well, but ... okay, the fire crew all sit there 6 feet away as David walks into the firehouse, has a long conversation with Frasier, and gives him groceries. Then because he says hello to Freddy, they conclude he's an orphan? And a homeless orphan? Who's at least 20 years old? That was not well done. Especially since they spent the first act hitting us over the head that "firefighters are smarter than you think."

Frasier eating the chili was funny, and I laughed at it. But Frasier Crane is a man who tastes as he goes. No way would he have been surprised by how spicy that chili was.

Wow, this is such a wall of text. But anyway, tl;dr I liked this episode the most so far. The puppy is adorable, and I welcome it.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Lois Sandborne

[ketose]

The first part of the episode dragged because the "trivia contest" trope just annoys me in general. I thought the rest of the episode was pretty good. I thought the David mistaken identity thing mostly hit the right notes.

[Athena]

I wish I didn't have to constantly compare this to the original show because I'm still not feeling Freddy. I don't blame the actor necessarily. As an audience, I can understand why they don't get along right now but he doesn't have the charm or depth that Martin did in S1.

It's taking awhile for me to warm up to the show as a whole.

The dog was the best part.

David is too simple and two dimensional as a character. This is getting old very quickly if they keep it up. He really does share a resemblance to DHP. At least he mentioned his parents. It only made me miss them more and how sad I am they aren't around. I think there is a good chance that at least Jane Leeves could guest star but it wouldn't be the same without DHP.

I really like Alan and Olivia largely because both the actors are trying to do the best they can, but I do agree that nothing is coming together.

It's good the Firefighters are getting more well rounded, but I am finding the cast is a bit bloated if we are going to be rotating between both work environments and adding Eve as well to the mix.

 

[opus]

7 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

There were some great lines

I liked “A good fire. A meth lab full of Yankees fans”

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Athena said:

I wish I didn't have to constantly compare this to the original show because I'm still not feeling Freddy. I don't blame the actor necessarily. As an audience, I can understand why they don't get along right now but he doesn't have the charm or depth that Martin did in S1.

The Frasier/Freddy moments are the thing that I am liking the most but I agree. Outside of Frasier, I have the same problem with all the characters. You can see them acting. Maybe it’s the direction they are being given or maybe it’s them playing to the studio audience rather than the tv audience. 

[paigow]

Niles & Daphne never taught David how to ride a bike... WTF???

Freddy is Mr. July... maybe this calendar is being printed by Chekhov

[Annber03]

38 minutes ago, paigow said:

Niles & Daphne never taught David how to ride a bike... WTF???

Niles I could buy not teaching him, given his own ill-fated attempt to learn to ride a bike :p. But yeah, Daphne would...unless she saw early on that David's efforts would clearly go the way of Niles' efforts, perhaps? 

[Chit Chat]

I'm glad that Frasier's seeming unhappiness with Freddy isn't from a snobbish point of view, but that of a dad worrying about his son.   It was good to hear Frasier talk about how he & Niles laid awake at night worrying about their dad when they were kids.  They didn't delve into that very much in the original series.  

The show could use some tweaking here and there, but overall, I'm okay with it.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Niles I could buy not teaching him, given his own ill-fated attempt to learn to ride a bike :p. But yeah, Daphne would...unless she saw early on that David's efforts would clearly go the way of Niles' efforts, perhaps? 

I can imagine Daphne never had a bike growing up. City or rural kids and/or poor kids often don't have bikes. Bicycles are mostly a feature of suburban childhood. 
Or:
David was just never very good at riding a bike.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I can imagine Daphne never had a bike growing up. City or rural kids and/or poor kids often don't have bikes. Bicycles are mostly a feature of suburban childhood. 
Or:
David was just never very good at riding a bike.

I could be misremembering but I think one of Daphne’s childhood stories involved a bike. Either way she knows how to ride because she taught Frasier and Niles. The physical comedy in that scene is brilliant. 

[Athena]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Niles I could buy not teaching him, given his own ill-fated attempt to learn to ride a bike :p. But yeah, Daphne would...unless she saw early on that David's efforts would clearly go the way of Niles' efforts, perhaps? 

 

37 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I can imagine Daphne never had a bike growing up. City or rural kids and/or poor kids often don't have bikes. Bicycles are mostly a feature of suburban childhood. 
Or:
David was just never very good at riding a bike.

Daphne was teaching both Niles and Frasier to ride a bike in "Fraternal Schwins" in S10. Niles actually did better by the end of it and Frasier was the one who had the most trouble with cycling in the end. I guess David is taking after Frasier more in that regard.

ETA: @Dani and I posted at the same time. :)

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Niles & Daphne never taught David how to ride a bike... WTF???

Did he say he didn't know how to ride a bike or did the firepeople just assume he didn't?

This episode had some funny stuff. 

17 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

This is probably an unpopular opinion too, but I like David.

I like him too.  Or I don't hate him.  I agree with the criticisms that he's probably not multidimensional yet and is often used for cheap laughs.  But I do find myself laughing at his antics, and since laughs have been in short supply, I appreciate him.  It's the same reason I like the firehouse crew even if they're all a bit dim. 

I also think his overly excited earnestness that works as the child of Niles.  (I wonder if Daphne and Niles had another child.)  He's naive, but college kids can be. 

Unfortunately, it works less with the dean and I think Frasier's friend works best a bit drunk. 

 

[Camera One]

It was watchable enough, but it felt too after-school special for me to find it funny.  The first half was cringey with Freddy whining that Frasier didn't respect his job.  But the sentimental stuff in the second half felt too cheesy so I found it cringey in a different way.  The writing just felt too simplistic.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Did he say he didn't know how to ride a bike or did the firepeople just assume he didn't?

End Credits are proof...

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

the sentimental stuff in the second half felt too cheesy so I found it cringey in a different way.  The writing just felt too simplistic.

I reacted similarly to Frasier's emotional meltdown (if that's what you are referring to?) except that I found it to be emotionally jarring (rather than "too cheesy") — although not necessarily unrealistic, since people do sometimes switch from tears of despair to laughter.

It was a pretty unique display of emotions for a TV show. Probably on most shows it would have been reshot. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I found it to be emotionally jarring

I'm not exactly sure what I think, except that I just wasn't moved when I should have been.  I agree these types of feelings could occur, and Frasier's seeming disinterest could have been due to a defense mechanism from childhood trauma of worrying about his father's safety on the job, but at the end of the day, it was jarring in the sense it seemed to come out of blue and I didn't buy it and the  whole thing... setup, carry-out and resolution just felt too pat.

[stonehaven]

I sorta liked this episode and I can now see how Freddy's smugness can annoy. It seems like the arrogance of Freddy takes after the arrogance of Frasier in those first few episodes. Martin put both Niles and Frasier in their place after their horrible behavios in the steakhouse episode. (That is a cringey episode for me.)

The biggest problem I have is the writers for this show. They don't seem to know or love the characters they are writing for. They show shades of respect for the original but for a lot of us, the original is why we are here in the first place. Case in point, David. How in the hell am I supposed to buy David as the child of Niles and Daphne? Yes, Niles had his tics and bugaboos in the early seasons but by the end, he had matured a lot. He ran a successful practice. He married the girl of his dreams. He was not a schmuck. Daphne had skills and intelligence and a bit of street smarts. Yes, she was a tad eccentric but she wasn't a black space. To make David a complete manchild idiot is an insult to Niles and Daphne. Worse, it's an insult to the man he is named after, David Angell. Angell was a co-creator of Frasier and revered writer of some great OG episodes. He and his wife were killed on 9/11 when their plane hit the Towers. To make a character named after him, a fool and one to point and laugh at is almost heresy. 

I want to like this show and I do on some level but nostalgia and nods to the original will only get you so far. Frasier, the spinoff succeeded, not because of this but because they created characters we could root for and care about. I just don't see that yet but maybe by the end of the ten episodes, I will.

[Irlandesa]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

End Credits are proof...

Oh I just took that as he's clumsy but thank you for responding. 

[TattleTeeny]

Haven’t read all of the comments yet, but this one felt much closer to the original. I liked it a lot and it made me feel a little sentimental. 

Also, random: the brand of the milk Frasier drank at the end also has the best nondairy plain yogurt ever!

Edited October 29, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[paigow]

Although this is the wrong state for Cake Boss ... Mousse / Moose should end up as a guest on some similar show like Cliff on Jeopardy!

 

[Yeah No]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:52 AM, Dani said:

The Frasier/Freddy moments are the thing that I am liking the most but I agree. Outside of Frasier, I have the same problem with all the characters. You can see them acting. Maybe it’s the direction they are being given or maybe it’s them playing to the studio audience rather than the tv audience. 

I definitely think the Frasier/Freddy relationship is going in the right direction but I agree about being able to see the actors acting and I also agree that it may be the direction and/or the writing, not necessarily them.

11 hours ago, stonehaven said:

The biggest problem I have is the writers for this show. They don't seem to know or love the characters they are writing for. They show shades of respect for the original but for a lot of us, the original is why we are here in the first place. Case in point, David. How in the hell am I supposed to buy David as the child of Niles and Daphne? Yes, Niles had his tics and bugaboos in the early seasons but by the end, he had matured a lot. He ran a successful practice. He married the girl of his dreams. He was not a schmuck. Daphne had skills and intelligence and a bit of street smarts. Yes, she was a tad eccentric but she wasn't a black space. 

<snip>

I want to like this show and I do on some level but nostalgia and nods to the original will only get you so far. Frasier, the spinoff succeeded, not because of this but because they created characters we could root for and care about. I just don't see that yet but maybe by the end of the ten episodes, I will.

Ding, ding, ding, this sums it up for me.  In the original not only did the writers know their characters, but WE did too.  That's why we recognized them as being like people we knew and found them believable.  I also feel like these writers don't know or love the characters the way they should.  I feel that way about most of the new scripted shows I watch these days, especially the reboots.  It's like they're trying too hard to capture the magic of the original but failing because they just don't get it.  And that's why the actors themselves seem to be trying too hard too.  Except for Kelsey.  It's like he's marching to a completely different drum here and the people around him are not matching him the way they should in terms of timing, energy, attitude, you name it.  They're all trying so hard it's painful to watch and for me not that funny.  Especially the women.  Take it down a notch or 3, please.  You're insufferable. 

I'm having a similar problem with the reboot of "Night Court".  Two of the female supporting characters need to calm down.  They're manic and not in a funny way.  I feel like they need medication, LOL.  On that thread I said it felt like the show was being written and acted by people that don't have the history with the show and love for it that the audience does.  I even have insane theories I come up with at 3:00 a.m. that they're writing scripts with the help of AI and it's missing the mark and making everything and everyone in the show a caricature of the original.

11 hours ago, stonehaven said:

To make David a complete manchild idiot is an insult to Niles and Daphne. Worse, it's an insult to the man he is named after, David Angell. Angell was a co-creator of Frasier and revered writer of some great OG episodes. He and his wife were killed on 9/11 when their plane hit the Towers. To make a character named after him, a fool and one to point and laugh at is almost heresy.

Like I said above, I feel like the characters on this show (other than Frasier himself) are being written like caricatures of the original show.  David is like a cartoon depiction of Niles to the 10th power, and it's not funny.  It's too cartoonish and amateurish to feel real so it's not funny. 

Another theory I have is that they have young kids writing the show who have only a surface/stereotyped view of what these characters should be like based on their immature perception of the original show.  I have the same complaint with scripted period piece shows that attempt to create a nostalgic take on a decade that the writers themselves never lived through and only have a very surface/stereotyped view of what it was like.  Like the way young kids online put on costumes to look like the '80s when all they know of it was the exaggerated stuff they saw on pop videos, like the big hair bands and crazy costumes the rock artists wore.  They think everything and everyone in the '80s was like that, LOL.

[Yeah No]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:13 PM, Chit Chat said:

I'm glad that Frasier's seeming unhappiness with Freddy isn't from a snobbish point of view, but that of a dad worrying about his son.   It was good to hear Frasier talk about how he & Niles laid awake at night worrying about their dad when they were kids.  They didn't delve into that very much in the original series.  

I figured they'd have to make Freddy realize his father isn't so bad to get them to reconcile.  Frasier was always one of those snobs "in general" but not so much with the specific people he cared about.  I've known racists like that too.  They entertain all these negative generalizations and stereotypes about other races in general, but don't feel that the people of those races that they know and love personally are like that and take them as individuals.

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

I'm not exactly sure what I think, except that I just wasn't moved when I should have been.  I agree these types of feelings could occur, and Frasier's seeming disinterest could have been due to a defense mechanism from childhood trauma of worrying about his father's safety on the job, but at the end of the day, it was jarring in the sense it seemed to come out of blue and I didn't buy it and the  whole thing... setup, carry-out and resolution just felt too pat.

Yes, it does feel too pat and a convenient way to get the two to reconcile.  I could get over that the way I got over Frasier and Martin's reconciliation, though, if the rest of the show was really good.

On 10/27/2023 at 8:21 PM, shapeshifter said:

I can imagine Daphne never had a bike growing up. City or rural kids and/or poor kids often don't have bikes. Bicycles are mostly a feature of suburban childhood. 
Or:
David was just never very good at riding a bike.

Most NYC kids back in my day ('60s and '70s) had bikes and we didn't have that much money either.  Even inner city kids had them back then.  Maybe most of them were not in such good shape and some were shared hand-me-downs, but they had 'em, long handlebars and banana seats and all.  Not sure about today, though.

I'm thinking that this is another rip-off of "Young Sheldon" in David's characterization in making him too "absentminded professor-ish", nerdy and uncoordinated to be able to ride a bike too well.   That and the eidetic memory.  As I remember, Sheldon had a run-in with a chicken that ended up in a broken arm as he attempted to ride his bike without training wheels.  Speaking of Sheldon, they can try all they want to imitate him in David, but it's not cutting the mustard for me, sorry to say.  Although weirdly enough, he doesn't annoy me as much as Freddy or the female characters on the show.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Yeah No

[paigow]

When will Moose / Mousse ask Freddy why Frasier sounds suspiciously like Sideshow Bob?

[cardigirl]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:49 AM, opus said:

I liked “A good fire. A meth lab full of Yankees fans”

That was a great line!  At least for us Bostonians. 😄

I like this show, and I'm so glad to be back in Frasier's world. 

I have started re-watching the original episodes, and am finding that the two shows aren't that much different. The setup is the same as far as having little vignettes of scenes tied together with an overarching theme. 

I hope that this show will continue to find its footing. 

Just re-watched the episode where Frasier bought a fake art piece, and wants to get revenge on the gallery owner that sold it to him. Niles is a standout in that episode. When he realizes that a humiliating episode from his high school days engendered nicknames, he throws a brick through a window and says,

 I've struck a blow for justice! Nobody calls me "Peachfuzz." Now let's get the hell out of here!

Still laughing over that scene. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by cardigirl

[ljenkins782]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:25 AM, Athena said:

I wish I didn't have to constantly compare this to the original show because I'm still not feeling Freddy. I don't blame the actor necessarily. As an audience, I can understand why they don't get along right now but he doesn't have the charm or depth that Martin did in S1.

It's taking awhile for me to warm up to the show as a whole.

The dog was the best part.

David is too simple and two dimensional as a character. This is getting old very quickly if they keep it up. He really does share a resemblance to DHP. At least he mentioned his parents. It only made me miss them more and how sad I am they aren't around. I think there is a good chance that at least Jane Leeves could guest star but it wouldn't be the same without DHP.

I'm not feeling Freddy either. Besides the fact that I just can't buy that chubby, nerdy child Freddy grew up to be this person, but the actor just lacks charm. 

It's a testament to Kelsey Grammer that I honestly think he could carry another show as Frasier as long as the writing for him is good, but the attempts to tug the heartstrings with the Freddy/Martin comparisons aren't grabbing me.

And I hadn't kept up on the news about the reboot so I'm still shocked that no one else from the original signed on.

I don't know how I feel about David yet. He has some potential if they improve the writing for him and figure out who the character is supposed to be.