Lessons in the Book: Your Book Talk Thread

[Pop Tart]

Discuss all things book here.

[Eureka]

Just watched the first two episodes. I like it so far, it’s following the book well. But is the across the street neighbor with the kids in the book? I don’t remember the storyline about the freeway.

[Phebemarie]

In the novel, Harriet is an older woman with grown children and an abusive husband.   I remembered Harriet as Elizabeth's supportive neighbor, but I didn't remember the freeway storyline at all.  

I found this article outlining some of the changes from the book.  Careful if you're avoiding spoilers.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2023-10-13/lessons-in-chemistry-book-changes

[EtheltoTillie]

I tried reading the book as it was highly touted. I got as far as when Calvin died. It was so clearly calculated to be a manipulative bestseller about issues, designed to get picked up for a streaming series, and it just annoyed me. People recommending it are not recognizing that it’s just very commercial and manipulative. It’s like the book The Help. People rave about it because of the social message making them feel superior. 

 I did not finish the book but read a summary.  I figured I would actually enjoy it as a TV series, and I’m watching it. It’s engrossing. I read it many months ago so I’m not picking up on all the differences from book. 

[EtheltoTillie]

8 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

In the novel, Harriet is an older woman with grown children and an abusive husband.   I remembered Harriet as Elizabeth's supportive neighbor, but I didn't remember the freeway storyline at all.  

I found this article outlining some of the changes from the book.  Careful if you're avoiding spoilers.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2023-10-13/lessons-in-chemistry-book-changes

Thanks for this info.  I found it jarring that Calvin was such a jerk as to forget to show up at that meeting, and I didn't remember that incident from the book, so glad to learn it did not happen in the book.  A poor choice, I think. 

In the show, Elizabeth is the better scientist, it seems.  Was Calvin such a loser scientist in the book? 

[EtheltoTillie]

@shapeshifter I didn’t read the whole book, but I read a summary.  I think you might like the rest of the story. 

[CarpeFelis]

It’s been a while since I read the book, but I recall quite a bit of dry humor I’m not seeing in the series, at least not yet.

[Shermie]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:25 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I tried reading the book as it was highly touted. I got as far as when Calvin died. It was so clearly calculated to be a manipulative bestseller about issues, designed to get picked up for a streaming series, and it just annoyed me. People recommending it are not recognizing that it’s just very commercial and manipulative. It’s like the book The Help. People rave about it because of the social message making them feel superior. 

Speak for yourself. I enjoyed Lessons in Chemistry and The Help not to make myself feel superior (the hell?) but because they were well-told stories about an era and people I’m not familiar with. I’m not a southern racist housewife or a black maid or a sexist lab president or a chemist, so these books are interesting to me.

[Jillybean]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:34 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Thanks for this info.  I found it jarring that Calvin was such a jerk as to forget to show up at that meeting, and I didn't remember that incident from the book, so glad to learn it did not happen in the book.  A poor choice, I think. 

In the show, Elizabeth is the better scientist, it seems.  Was Calvin such a loser scientist in the book? 

In the book, which I adored, Calvin was an extremely highly regarded and influential scientist as as well as extremely homely. I guess they decided he needed to be attractive for the show to appeal.

I'm disappointed by the passing reference to rowing when in fact, it was very significant in the book. He brought Elizabeth onto the team, taught her everything, it was something they did together and her participation continued after his death. I suspect they'll make it something she takes up as a tribute, instead. They're following the basic plot but with plenty of changes.

My favorite part of the book was the inner dialogue of Six-Thirty. I knew this couldn't translate to TV, so I don't expect much from the series going forward.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

In the book, which I adored, Calvin was an extremely highly regarded and influential scientist as as well as extremely homely. I guess they decided he needed to be attractive for the show to appeal.

I'm disappointed by the passing reference to rowing when in fact, it was very significant in the book. He brought Elizabeth onto the team, taught her everything, it was something they did together and her participation continued after his death. I suspect they'll make it something she takes up as a tribute, instead. They're following the basic plot but with plenty of changes.

My favorite part of the book was the inner dialogue of Six-Thirty. I knew this couldn't translate to TV, so I don't expect much from the series going forward.

I too was surprised that they didn't have more about the rowing with the team.  They obviously changed the characters a lot.  From the latest episode, sounds like Elizabeth will join the team now without Calvin. 

[MerBearHou]

I was so intrigued by the rowing in the book that I looked up local rowing clubs!  I really wish they'd added a few more scenes with Elizabeth and Calvin rowing because that was a really beautiful and unique part of the growth in their closeness and how she grew to love it.  

@shapeshifter you asked in the other thread if Six-Thirty’s narration is part of the book -- it is, and it plays a great part in the book's progression.  I am not minding it in the show, but I also knew it was coming so it didn't feel like a surprise or off-putting.  I like BJ Novak's voice here -- very kind and conveys what Six-Thirty is feeling.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by MerBearHou
Spelling Six-Thirty the way Bonnie does

[Jillybean]

3 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I was so intrigued by the rowing in the book that I looked up local rowing clubs!  I really wish they'd added a few more scenes with Elizabeth and Calvin rowing because that was a really beautiful and unique part of the growth in their closeness and how she grew to love it.  

@shapeshifter you asked in the other thread if 6:30's narration is part of the book -- it is, and it plays a great part in the book's progression.  I am not minding it in the show, but I also knew it was coming so it didn't feel like a surprise or off-putting.  I like BJ Novak's voice here -- very kind and conveys what 6:30 is feeling.  

Aha! Apparently, I should have waited to comment after watching Ep 3, which I haven't yet seen.

[Eureka]

11 hours ago, Jillybean said:

In the book, which I adored, Calvin was an extremely highly regarded and influential scientist as as well as extremely homely. I guess they decided he needed to be attractive for the show to appeal.

I'm disappointed by the passing reference to rowing when in fact, it was very significant in the book. He brought Elizabeth onto the team, taught her everything, it was something they did together and her participation continued after his death. I suspect they'll make it something she takes up as a tribute, instead. They're following the basic plot but with plenty of changes.

My favorite part of the book was the inner dialogue of Six-Thirty. I knew this couldn't translate to TV, so I don't expect much from the series going forward.

I just said the same thing to my husband about how they really haven't done much with the rowing storyline in this show yet. But then the doctor mentioned it so maybe we’ll see more later.

[MerBearHou]

Many of you may know this but the author, Bonnie Garmus, is a rower and has a dog named 99!  I have never met her, but have read a ton about Bonnie and her path and follow her on Instagram — she just seems like a cool person.  

[EtheltoTillie]

99!  The agent from Get Smart!

[MerBearHou]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

99!  The agent from Get Smart!

That’s what I thought too!  

Before 99, she and her husband had a dog for many years — called Friday — who is the basis of Six-Thirty.  Sadly, Friday passed away just as the book was finishing up.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by MerBearHou

[ReclinerTurnip]

That is awesome to hear so many people enjoyed the rowing aspect.  I actually read the book a few months ago because my row club was talking about it.  What is disappointing a bit to me is that the rowing they are doing in the show is sculling (most of the time when you say "rowing"  it is sweep rowing or with just one oar).  But when you get down to two rowers, you usually have sculling - that is where individuals row with two oars.  I think maybe they wanted to focus on the one on one building of the relationship with her and Calvin and that seemed more natural for a 2-person scull.  But a club that utilizes an octuple (that's an 8 person sculling vessel) is rare and I am pretty sure that the doctor that told her to come out to row with them in the book was talking about her being with them in an 8 sweep.  Rowing is challenging and fun -- the people who do it have great personalities in general and love to share their passion.  And I would love to learn to scull - about a third of my club members can do both.  If you get a shot - check it out! 

Edited October 24, 2023 by ReclinerTurnip
I didn't indicate the difference "in the show"

[AstridM]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:25 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

People rave about it because of the social message making them feel superior. 

What? I’m totally lost here 🤷‍♀️.

On 10/18/2023 at 9:54 PM, Shermie said:

Speak for yourself. I enjoyed Lessons in Chemistry and The Help not to make myself feel superior (the hell?) but because they were well-told stories about an era and people I’m not familiar with. I’m not a southern racist housewife or a black maid or a sexist lab president or a chemist, so these books are interesting to me.

I’m completely bewildered, too. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I can see that my commentary on the book is an unpopular opinion.  I don't want to make anyone feel bad for liking the book.  But there is a trope of books with a message where people feel better about themselves when they can feel that they get the message.  I found this book to be message heavy and not all that entertaining. 

[AstridM]

18 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I can see that my commentary on the book is an unpopular opinion.  I don't want to make anyone feel bad for liking the book.  But there is a trope of books with a message where people feel better about themselves when they can feel that they get the message.  I found this book to be message heavy and not all that entertaining. 

Not necessarily unpopular, I just don’t understand where you’re coming from 🤷‍♀️.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I can see that my commentary on the book is an unpopular opinion.  I don't want to make anyone feel bad for liking the book.  But there is a trope of books with a message where people feel better about themselves when they can feel that they get the message.  I found this book to be message heavy and not all that entertaining. 

I haven’t read the book yet (I have it on hold and have been on the fence) so was wondering what would you say is the message of the book. How is it manipulative? I often find people who don’t like a book give me a better idea if I should read it. 

[EtheltoTillie]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

I haven’t read the book yet (I have it on hold and have been on the fence) so was wondering what would you say is the message of the book. How is it manipulative? I often find people who don’t like a book give me a better idea if I should read it. 

I mean it’s a very obvious message book and it’s designed to be a best seller. The author was an advertising copywriter type and good at this type of writing. She started out to write a best seller, not a literary novel. I don’t know how else to explain this. I was annoyed with it but many people I know LOVED it. With a capital L. If you are very cynical like me you may not like it. But give it a try. I like the story and I am enjoying the show. When I first read it I knew it was designed to get picked up for a series and I even looked forward to watching it. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[BetyBee]

I'm enjoying the show, but I have to say that I was one of the few in my book club who didn't love the book. It kind of reminded me of Ayn Rand's writing and I'm not a fan. But the story was interesting and informative about the roles women have been forced into. I do love smart, unique people, both men and women. Calvin and Elizabeth are both certainly smart and unique. They don't fit into traditional roles and the world does contain people like that. Thank goodness for unique people! 

[Door County Cherry]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:30 PM, Dani said:

I haven’t read the book yet (I have it on hold and have been on the fence) so was wondering what would you say is the message of the book. How is it manipulative? I often find people who don’t like a book give me a better idea if I should read it. 

I'll try to address this. I didn't love the book.  I did think it was well written and a pretty easy read but I felt the author mixed a 2020s sensibility a bit too much with a 1950s setting.  I found it hard to care much about the characters and felt it tried to be too cutesy. Ultimately, it didn't click with me even though I totally get why it did with others. 

It's tricky because I 100% know there were kickass women in STEM back then.  There were people who supported civil rights for all people and were openly accepting of gays and lesbians.  There were atheists. Those attitudes are more common today but they weren't non-existent back then so I'm not calling shenanigans that the lead character is all these things.  (Even if it did feel a bit Mary Sue-ish at the time.)

But the book has her spouting these radical ideas, or radical for back then, on her cooking show and is widely accepted.  Granted, I didn't live back then and I could be mistaken but I found it hard to believe that kind of cooking show would have such mainstream success. 

As I read, I found  myself comparing the book to the (HBO) Max TV Series, Julia, which came out last year. They both told the stories of women who found success hosting a cooking show during approximately the same time period yet I think Julia did it better.  There were some changes to make it more modern but it still had some period reactions which felt more authentic.  For instance, her husband absolutely adored Julia but we saw his support wasn't as perfect as it could have been.  

[EtheltoTillie]

I just finished episode four. Can anyone fill us in on the similarities and differences from the book?  I’m hoping to check this out each week as a DNF book reader. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Quote

48 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I don't have any trouble with 630 still being a part of the family in the flash-forward episodes.  He might be ten at that point at most.  My childhood pet, a brown poodle named Dino, lived to 16.  

I forgot all about the Mad fake-out in the book. I feel like I need to re-read the novel.  

 

How in the world did they do a Mad fake-out in the book? 

[anniebird]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:25 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I tried reading the book as it was highly touted. I got as far as when Calvin died. It was so clearly calculated to be a manipulative bestseller about issues, designed to get picked up for a streaming series, and it just annoyed me. People recommending it are not recognizing that it’s just very commercial and manipulative. It’s like the book The Help. People rave about it because of the social message making them feel superior. 

 

Or maybe it's that they realize the uncomfortable truth that powerless people need someone with power to help them get started and, once they have the momentum, they can help themselves. Perhaps the real social message is that people with power should try to help others less fortunate.

Edited October 28, 2023 by anniebird

[Haleth]

I only just finished the second episode and even though I'm enjoying this, I keep saying to myself "that's not how it happened in the book."  I don't know why the show writers made so many changes that don't seem necessary, little things like Eliz and Calvin (not) rowing together, them adopting Six Thirty together, the addition of the beauty pageant for them to connect, rather than a date, etc.  I see that Harriet's storyline will make her a character with her own agency rather than just a friend.  Ok, but the warm, motherly Harriet from the book, breaking free from her abusive husband, had a purpose too.  

Are we going to learn Elizabeth's and Calvin's backstories?  Their upbringing was important to how they developed their standoffish personalities.  Even Six Thirty's backstory was important since it led to Calvin's death.  I feel like these things are missing.

[EtheltoTillie]

Someone who read the book please answer:  did Calvin really make moonshine at the boys’ school?  

On 11/6/2023 at 6:44 AM, Haleth said:

Are we going to learn Elizabeth's and Calvin's backstories?  Their upbringing was important to how they developed their standoffish personalities.  Even Six Thirty's backstory was important since it led to Calvin's death.  I feel like these things are missing.

Last night’s episode was good on Calvin’s back story Beas that how it unfolded in the book?  

[Haleth]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Someone who read the book please answer:  did Calvin really make moonshine at the boys’ school?  

Last night’s episode was good on Calvin’s back story Beas that how it unfolded in the book?  

I haven't seen the latest episode yet but I'm glad they did finally did delve into Elizabeth's awful childhood.  (In the book her brother hanged himself.)  And Six Thirty was a police dog, not military.

[oceanblue]

I don't remember the moonshine.  IIRC the school got a donation in Calvin's name when they told the person from the foundation he was dead.   If they knew he was alive they would have just taken him and gone.

[Phebemarie]

No, I think they made up the moonshine angle. 

[shapeshifter]

Interview with the author:

 

[MerBearHou]

So I will share this here — now that the final episode has been seen (not by me yet — I’ve been sick, so I’m behind 3 episodes, but I’ve been reading our PT group’s thoughts)…

About 3 weeks ago, Bonnie received an award and I sent her a nice congrats DM on Instagram as I often do with folks I follow and admire and something nice has happened to them.  Never, ever expecting a reply.

I told her my husband and I were enjoying the series so far and her book was one of my favorites of the year, etc.  

Well, she replied to me about 10 minutes later!!  Bonnie said “Thank you! I’m not as fond of the series, but oh well 😢”  I then told her “it’s different, that’s for sure, but I think we feel grateful to see some of your marvelous book come to life, in a way” and she replied with a heart.  

[lucindabelle]

I am a very picky, reader, much prefer literary type novels, what some people find recreational makes me want to pull my hair out… and I loved this. slogged my way through Colleen Hoover for example… but I really loved this book. I thought it was very well written, and very funny. That said, I loved the help also and also thought it was well written, and very funny and very engrossing. 

[retired watcher]

 

On 10/14/2023 at 11:57 PM, Phebemarie said:

In the novel, Harriet is an older woman with grown children and an abusive husband.   I remembered Harriet as Elizabeth's supportive neighbor, but I didn't remember the freeway storyline at all.  

I found this article outlining some of the changes from the book.  Careful if you're avoiding spoilers.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2023-10-13/lessons-in-chemistry-book-changes

I don't like the changes to the book concerning Harriet. They have added a second lead character and another storyline. It is an important story but it doesn't belong here. By eliminating this story they could have had more time for her rowing which was an important part of the book. They could also have developed Calvin's character more. 

[chaifan]

A little late to the party here...

I just started watching this 2 days ago - doing 1 episode a night, so I'm through Ep. 3 at this point.  I read the book last fall, and I'm a bit hazy on the details but haven't read any of the "book vs. show" articles yet.

I thought the addition of the Little Miss Hastings pageant was weird, not just because it wasn't in the book, but because it was the central plot of the first episode, and I don't think it really added anything.  Yes, we all know that the 50's was incredibly sexist, especially for working women, and even more so for women in "male" careers.  We didn't need a pageant to show us more sexism.  It was like being hit with a 2x4 over the head for 45 minutes.

They could have used that time to show more of the evolving relationship between Calvin & Elizabeth.  Yes, they did a little montage of the lunches, but there could have been more to build that relationship.

I'm sad they all but eliminated the rowing part of C&E's relationship.  That just seemed to be such an important part of their relationship, and it also gave Elizabeth some sense of community after Calvin's death.  Maybe it was a cost issue, not wanting to teach the actors how to row or deal with stunt doubles? 

I don't remember Harriet being Black in the book, nor do I remember Calvin living in an all Black neighborhood being threatened by eminent domain/highway construction.  I can completely understand why they changed Harriet for the show, because without this change this show would have a 100% White cast, and that's just a bit tone deaf these days.* 

They also changed the dynamic of the sexual assault scene, which seems to be done for time (not having to build a longer plot line), so that's ok with me.

As someone commented in the episode threads, the show writers could have/should have explained how Elizabeth ended up with Calvin's house.  It would have been an easy one-liner - in the book Calvin had already changed his will and/or the deed of the house before he died. 

I also think by the time Calvin died in the book we had more information about his childhood.  It will be interesting to see how the show reveals this information now that he's dead. 

*I felt the same way about Alice in "Julia".  There was no Alice in real life - the character was a composite character, which is fine with me.  But if the show hadn't made Alice a Black woman, and given her a plot line involving family and other Black characters, it would have been a 100% white cast.  Which would have tracked with the time, but not looked good for a show today.  And please don't get me wrong - I think there should be so much more diversity on screen than there is today.  I love the "Bridgerton" approach to casting.  But, when source material (book or real life) doesn't have a non-white character, and one is added, it is usually pretty obvious as to why the choice is made. 

[Nataly]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:25 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

I tried reading the book as it was highly touted. I got as far as when Calvin died. It was so clearly calculated to be a manipulative bestseller about issues, designed to get picked up for a streaming series, and it just annoyed me. People recommending it are not recognizing that it’s just very commercial and manipulative. It’s like the book The Help. People rave about it because of the social message making them feel superior. 

 I did not finish the book but read a summary.  I figured I would actually enjoy it as a TV series, and I’m watching it. It’s engrossing. I read it many months ago so I’m not picking up on all the differences from book. 

I'm still reading, can't finish it, 30 pages left. I don’t understand, I either don’t have the desire or the time. I just have to defend my thesis at the university the day before. I already found thesis help, I used https://ca.edubirdie.com/thesis-help for this. But besides this there is still a lot of work. I dream of the moment when I get my diploma and there won’t be this fuss. I will read all the books in the world that there are...

Edited Tuesday at 12:59 PM by Nataly

[EtheltoTillie]

34 minutes ago, Nataly said:

I'm still reading, can't finish it, 30 pages left. I don’t understand, I either don’t have the desire or the time.

Surprised you stuck with it that long LOL.