S01.E03: Murder in the Rue Morgue

[Guest]

Quote

In charge of the Ushers' publicity, Camille conspires to spin controversy in her family's favor and expose the grim details of her sister's experiments.

Dropping on October 12, 2023

[Anela]

Another animal dies in this one.  Just a warning.  I wasn’t expecting that.

[Guest]

I could not watch the opening scene. 

Leo’s boyfriend and Pluto the cat were the only characters I actually like so this was a rough episode. I really hope the boyfriend survives Leo’s demise. 

Watching Verna weave her way through the children’s lives setting them up is the best thing about those scenes. 

[MrsR]

Bruce Greenwood's speech about lemons was everything. Instant classic.

Extra special for Agents of Sheild fans.

At least Camille had some world-class invective to hurl before her untimely demise.

The monkey sounds over the closing credits was a creepy but funny addition.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by MrsR

[Snazzy Daisy]

Jump scare #2 - Camille pops up in Roderick’s face while he’s getting a refill. 😧🫣

When life throws lemon at you, you don’t just make lemonade. You make a multi-billion lemonade “lem-pire” and patent it. That’s the Usher way. Great monologue! 💕

In the flashback, we see how good young Madeline was at playing a long game while young Roderick was more emotional. Annabel (Roderick’s first wife) told him that she didn’t like Madeline, after hearing about the scheming to take down Mr. Griswold. We’re getting closer to that fateful day  on 1979 NYE. I wonder where’s Annabel now.

So, the water tanks at Usher’s factory have been converted to store highly acidic medical waste to avoid fines. And Roderick has wasted no time to put a blame on Perry’s stupidity and Frederick for failing to demolish the factory sooner. Morella should’ve followed Verna’s advice to leave the party.

Napoleon should be cursed for killing Pluto and throwing her body into a trash bag. You’re on borrowed time, dude! 

Camille sees the tragedy as an opportunity for more sympathetic PR. The “fallen prince” narrative is kinda absurd. Who would believe that? 🤦🏻‍♀️

Despite her hatred towards Victorine, Camille’s instinct is right. Vic has been committing medical frauds, falsifying her test results. She even persuades Pam/Verna to participate in her sketchy medical trial.

The timing of Verna playing Candy with Bill/Tammy and Verna as a security guard at RUE Morgue research facility is kinda overlap, don’t you think? Same night? Verna is a very busy woman, infiltrating into the lives of all the Usher children.

What happens in the lab is a bit confusing. Verna shows Camille her stitched-up chest. Camille takes a picture of it and when the flash goes off, Verna has turned into an enraged ape who then jumps on Camille.

Camille is the cleanup woman for the Usher family. She’s a tale spinner. She curates the family and company’s public persona. She doesn’t mind to get her hands dirty. What will they do without her? Pym Reaper the fixer to handle everything now? Toby and Tina must be relieved for getting fired just in time before all the chaos.

*️⃣ 2 Usher children down, 4 to go.

[Bastet]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:04 PM, MrsR said:

Bruce Greenwood's speech about lemons was everything. Instant classic.

Epic.  I almost fell out of the chair laughing at "conflict-free lemons".

Leo had been my favorite of the kids (I mean, he's awful, but in a more entertaining way than the others), so I am extra displeased about the cat murder.  At least now I don't have to worry about being sad when he bites it.

On 10/12/2023 at 10:04 PM, MrsR said:

The monkey sounds over the closing credits was a creepy but funny addition.

That was a great touch.  I found the second episode not as compelling as the first, but they're back to brilliant form in this one.

I had found Camille rather blandly awful until this one, when she cracked me up frequently while being awful.

I really enjoy the flashbacks to who and how Madeline and Roderick were before they became so powerful.

And seeing the genuine connections some people have with each other, despite their crazy family dynamic -- Madeline and Roderick, obviously, but also each of them with Lenore, Camille and Leo, Leo being the only one who thinks there's something more to Perry.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Bastet

[Paloma]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:45 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

When life throws lemon at you, you don’t just make lemonade. You make a multi-billion lemonade “lem-pire” and patent it. That’s the Usher way. Great monologue! 💕

 

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

On 10/13/2023 at 1:04 AM, MrsR said:

Bruce Greenwood's speech about lemons was everything. Instant classic.

Epic.  I almost fell out of the chair laughing at "conflict-free lemons".

That was great writing and perfect delivery of the lines! 

On 10/13/2023 at 12:06 AM, Anela said:

Another animal dies in this one.

I hated that, as well as even the brief glimpses of chimps and monkeys in the lab. Even if they were CGI or actors in costume, Verna's speech about how many animals are used in medical and cosmetic testing was true and upsetting.

 

On 10/13/2023 at 11:45 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

What happens in the lab is a bit confusing. Verna shows Camille her stitched-up chest. Camille takes a picture of it and when the flash goes off, Verna has turned into an enraged ape who then jumps on Camille.

I've been assuming that Verna is the devil, or an agent of the devil, and can appear in different forms. So maybe she was possessing the body of the chimp, controlling its actions and making it appear human and able to talk to Camille, but then for the attack allowed the chimp to take back control of its body. 

On 10/13/2023 at 11:45 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

The timing of Verna playing Candy with Bill/Tammy and Verna as a security guard at RUE Morgue research facility is kinda overlap, don’t you think? Same night?

I think it did overlap. But if we assume that Verna is not really human (devil or agent of the devil, or some other supernatural being or spirit), then there's no reason she can't be in two places at once.

Aside from still being confused by the character names and relationships, I am enjoying this as much as my previous favorite Flanagan series, The Haunting of Hill House.   

[Paloma]

I do have a question about this episode: After Verna appeared as a patient with a heart problem in Vic's girlfriend's clinic, Vic took a picture of her driver's license (with a name that was not Verna) and called her later to say she would be a perfect case for their treatment. Later in the RUE Morgue when Verna confronts Camille, she opens her shirt to show her surgical scar. So did Verna actually come in to have surgery as a human subject after the call and before the confrontation in the RUE Morgue? 

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I do have a question about this episode: After Verna appeared as a patient with a heart problem in Vic's girlfriend's clinic, Vic took a picture of her driver's license (with a name that was not Verna) and called her later to say she would be a perfect case for their treatment. Later in the RUE Morgue when Verna confronts Camille, she opens her shirt to show her surgical scar. So did Verna actually come in to have surgery as a human subject after the call and before the confrontation in the RUE Morgue? 

 

I don’t think so. Vic’s not the surgeon. She needs Alessandra to be willing to proceed to human trials. Given how vocal we have seen her be against Vic’s methods, I don’t think that would happen off screen. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

45 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I think it did overlap. But if we assume that Verna is not really human (devil or agent of the devil, or some other supernatural being or spirit), then there's no reason she can't be in two places at once.

[krankydoodle]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:04 AM, MrsR said:

Bruce Greenwood's speech about lemons was everything. Instant classic.

It was amazing, just kept building and building. I loved how Dupin had to take a beat to absorb and appreciate the WTFery of that monologue.

I was expecting Morella to escape the party unscathed, so I'm interested to see what happens with her next.

Tammy is getting the least screen time, which is too bad because I'd like to see what she's selling as part of her GOOP-like business. I think the actor playing her husband is kind of bland, though, especially for someone who's supposed to have amassed millions of followers.

[DearEvette]

Sigh.  Ok I used to like Leo. I figure we needed a reason to be ok with his death when it eventually happens.

Verna was everywhere with everyone so I wasn't sure who would bite it this episode, but am glad it was Camille.  Her line delivery is funny, but her brand of 'I am rich and powerful Kneel to Zod' entitlement and privilege gets old fast.  She was really high on the annoyance factor scale to me. 

They gave the  ape who killed her the same expression as Caesar's  from Dawn of the Planet of the Apes poster.  Pissed and wise.

Will we ever find out why she hated Victorine so much?

Was it me or did it seem like Verna- as - Tammy sex stand in not only put them off their stride because she wasn't their regular, but also because she actually asked Bill about HIS day?  For once it wasn't all about him catering to her?  And I have to wonder how on board Bill really is about all of this?  They are underwritten so far.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Was it me or did it seem like Verna- as - Tammy sex stand in not only put them off their stride because she wasn't their regular, but also because she actually asked Bill about HIS day?  For once it wasn't all about him catering to her? 

That's what I thought. He actually seems like a decent guy (from what little we've seen of him), and Tammy doesn't seem to care much about him.

[shrewd.buddha]

The entire episode was worth it for the "when the world gives you lemons" speech. 
I wonder how Timothée Chalamet and Billie Eilish feel about having become memes for our current obsessions? 

Carla Gugino is killing it in this show (on so many metaphorical levels). 
I like how the production dept. seems to (maybe) enhance the vocals.  The enunciation by certain characters is so crisp,  it 'pops'. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
Spelling

[Bastet]

On 10/17/2023 at 5:19 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

The entire spinode was worth it for the "when the world gives you lemons" speech. 

I made lemon chicken tonight, and while squeezing the lemons I suddenly heard bits and pieces of that speech in my head.  I had to go look up the whole thing:
 

Quote

First you roll out a multi-media campaign to convince people lemons are incredibly scarce - which only works if you stockpile lemons, control the supply - then a media blitz.  Lemon is the only way to say “I love you,” the must-have accessory for engagements or anniversaries.  Roses are out, lemons are in.  Billboards that say she won’t have sex with you unless you got lemons.  You cut De Beers in on it -- limited edition lemon bracelets, yellow diamonds called lemon drops. 

You get Apple to call their new operating system OS-Lemón, a little accent over the O.  You charge 40% more for organic lemons, 50% more for conflict-free lemons.  You pack the Capitol with lemon lobbyists, you get a Kardashian to suck a lemon wedge in a leaked sex tape.  Timotheé Chalamet wears lemon shoes at Cannes.  Get a hashtag campaign; something isn’t cool or tight or awesome, no, it’s lemon -- “Did you see that movie? Did you see that concert? It was f-ing lemon.” Billie Eilish: “OMG, hashtag lemon.”

You get Dr. Oz to recommend four lemons a day and a lemon suppository supplement to get rid of toxins ‘cause there’s nothing scarier than toxins.  Then you patent the seeds.  You write a line of genetic code that makes the lemons look just a little more like tits, and you get a gene patent for the tit-lemon DNA sequence, you cross-pollinate, you get those seeds circulating in the wild, and then you sue the farmers for copyright infringement when that genetic code shows up on their land.

Sit back, rake in the millions, and then, when you’re done, and you’ve sold your lempire for a few billion dollars, then, and only then, you make some fucking lemonade.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Bastet

[Bruinsfan]

What surprises me is that Verna's image appeared on the video recordings from the Masque of the Red Death. That whole sequence made her seem like some insubstantial spirit vanishing from one part of the rave and appearing at another—in fact it wasn't clear to me that anyone but Prospero and Morella could actually see her at all.

[Schweedie]

6 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

What surprises me is that Verna's image appeared on the video recordings from the Masque of the Red Death.

I think I assumed she wanted them (Roderick and Madeleine) to see her, that she wanted them to know she was there.

[tennisgurl]

So we can all agree that Verna isn't just a person with a grudge right? She's definitely some kind of demon or ghost or something, out for revenge or maybe Roderick and/or Madeline made a deal with the devil and now the devil's come to collect, she's super creepy. 

Bruce Greenwood is crushing this role, its amazing that he was a last minute replacement. He just crushed that lemon speech, you really have to be good at monologues to star in a Mike Flannigan show. 

I think I'm going to actually find myself missing Camille and her supervillain look. She's awful but in this one she was an entertaining sort of awful and if nothing else she does seem to be good at her job. Dupin really walked right into her trap when he started talking about the many dead of drug addiction right after talking about Perry's death, he had to have known that could play badly. What will the Ushers do now that their spin doctor is gone? 

Leo had previously been my favorite of the siblings, he's at least funny in how awful he is and does at least seem to care a bit about his siblings, but now I want justice for the poor kitty cat. 

Its interesting that the Usher's partners seem to pretty nice people from what we have seen, and not fellow rich assholes. Maybe they like having the power in their relationships? Or there is some part of them that actually feels pulled towards not being totally awful? Hopefully most of them don't end up being collateral damage like Perry's partners and Morella. Toby and Beth were lucky to get out while they were still ahead. 

The cinematography and production values on this show are gorgeous. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Lady Calypso]

I will say, that "lemons" monologue was very nicely done. It's about on par for a Flanagan monologue, but I felt like it had purpose in a way that some Flanagan monologues don't. 

I'm surprised Camille was the second to go; I thought they would want to milk her sometimes over the top villainness longer but, at the same time, she was WAY too villainous and good at her job to keep around. She'd be able to spin each death in their favour, so it makes sense for her to be the second to go. But it was actually a lot of fun to watch her in these episodes. Kate Siegel looked like she was having a blast playing a comedic villain like Camille. Her facial expressions whenever someone dared to question her were fantastic. This may be my second favourite Siegel character, even with her shorter presence. Her scene where she's firing Toby and Beth was fantastic. She was merely annoyed with their confession and realizing she had to replace them, but I'm surprised she let them off that easily.

Carla Gugino is, to no surprise, doing a fantastic job with the various characters she's playing. Well, she's playing one character but with different iterations, depending on which Usher she is interacting with. I didn't know I needed Chimp Carla Gugino, but there we go, we got it. 

On 10/13/2023 at 12:06 AM, Anela said:

Another animal dies in this one.  Just a warning.  I wasn’t expecting that.

This warning was very much needed, and I'm glad I popped by here as I was watching the episode to see this. I was able to look away when that scene happened.

I guess that scene was needed because Leo was showing TOO much empathy that all the other Ushers didn't have, but....did it HAVE to be the cat? He's already been cheating on his partner, but I guess that wasn't evil enough for the show so pet murderer is the next step.

The flashbacks are starting to bore me a bit, mostly because I can kind of see what it's leading to, but at least Michael Trucco is having a blast in his role as Rufus. 

I will say, the death I'm looking most forward to IS Victorine. The stuff she's doing is horrific and her callousness in using her partner to achieve her own gain is horrific.

[Chaos Theory]

I was trying to place where I saw the actress who plays “Young Madeline” and it finally came to me…Emma Duval from The Scream TV series.  I loved that series.     I loved Madeline vs Roderick’s approach to their abusive foster home told through Madeline.  Roderick always charge at right at it.  Madeline is the sneaky one.

I also liked the “lemons” monologue.  It was a interesting insight into way rich people probably think.  Most people just try to make the best out of a bad situation.  But there are a certain type of personality that will turn a bad situation into something that profits them.  

I am really surprised Camille was the second to go.   Her scene with Toby and Beth was well done.  But I also like the scenes where whatever you want to call the thing haunting her family asked why she hated her sister so much.    

“I love how deliciously pointlessly mean you lot can be.”

But Madeline just staring at her and saying “Fuck it.”  Is a badass way to go out. 

Isn’t this how Planet of the Apes started?  

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Brn2bwild]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm surprised Camille was the second to go; I thought they would want to milk her sometimes over the top villainness longer but, at the same time, she was WAY too villainous and good at her job to keep around.

I kind of wish some of the deaths were due to Verna instigating the "legitimate" children to turn against the bastards.  I could see Tammy plotting to get rid of Camille.

[Bastet]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:58 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Kate Siegel looked like she was having a blast playing a comedic villain like Camille. Her facial expressions whenever someone dared to question her were fantastic. This may be my second favourite Siegel character, even with her shorter presence. Her scene where she's firing Toby and Beth was fantastic. She was merely annoyed with their confession and realizing she had to replace them, but I'm surprised she let them off that easily.

I'd never seen the actor in anything before, and Camille was blandly one-note to me until this episode, in which she entertained the ever-loving hell out of me.  I loved how stupid she thought her assistants were for being in love, and telling them that when the excitement wears off and one of them is lying there listening to the other one fart in their sleep, they'll look back on choosing their relationship over this job and regret how stupid they were.

(I mean, of course, in the real world, one should not stay in a job where having to sexually service the boss is among one's duties.  But in this universe, where everyone is outlandish, that they were fine doing it until they fell in love, so it felt like cheating on each other, so they wanted to be able to say we're not doing it anymore and just keep working, I get a good laugh out of Camille's reaction to their delusions.  Just as I get a good laugh out of Toby's reaction to Camille's delusion that they'll still tell her what new dirt they've dug up on their way out the door she's just tossed them out of.)

Edited October 24, 2023 by Bastet

[heatherchandler]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:19 PM, Paloma said:

I hated that, as well as even the brief glimpses of chimps and monkeys in the lab. Even if they were CGI or actors in costume, Verna's speech about how many animals are used in medical and cosmetic testing was true and upsetting.

The numbers are very sad and true, including the fact that 90% of drugs that work on animals don’t work on humans.  It’s actually 90-95%.  So why would we still torture them?

[Paloma]

22 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

The numbers are very sad and true, including the fact that 90% of drugs that work on animals don’t work on humans.  It’s actually 90-95%.  So why would we still torture them?

Greed by the pharmaceutical companies, though I'm sure they would say they only care about improving the health of people.

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

Greed by the pharmaceutical companies, though I'm sure they would say they only care about improving the health of people.

Greed is at the bottom line of most animal and human suffering.

I just don’t understand why scientists haven’t stopped the animal tests, knowing they are worthless.  
The thing that really horrifies me, other than the torture, is that there has probably been a drug that could have cured a disease and saved lives but was not developed because it didn’t cure the disease in a dog.

[chediavolo]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:06 AM, Anela said:

Another animal dies in this one.  Just a warning.  I wasn’t expecting that.

Yeah, I’m about to stop watching this. Unfortunately I’m also watching gangs of London with its extreme violence, which I’m not loving either and a dog was just killed in that one. This is not helping my anxiety so warning to anyone who is feeling depressed or anxious, and is an animal lover, the storyline with the chimpanzees is heartbreaking knowing that it is still going on..what the hell is wrong with this country

[chediavolo]

I don’t think Camille should have died at the hands of the poor tortured chimps. ( another reason I hate people) She was against it. It should’ve been her sister and her nasty girlfriend. 

and what kind of drugs was the brother on that could have possessed him to kill that poor cat he didn’t seem like the type

Edited October 30, 2023 by chediavolo

[Eeksquire]

Quote

and what kind of drugs was the brother on that could have possessed him to kill that poor cat he didn’t seem like the type

It's possible that I missed something, but I didn't get the impression that he killed the cat, just that he was *afraid* he had killed the cat. He didn't know one way or another because he had blacked out from all the drugs, and didn't want his partner to find out that the cat was murdered.

[chediavolo]

On 10/30/2023 at 10:01 AM, Eeksquire said:

It's possible that I missed something, but I didn't get the impression that he killed the cat, just that he was *afraid* he had killed the cat. He didn't know one way or another because he had blacked out from all the drugs, and didn't want his partner to find out that the cat was murdered.

He had blood on his hands & his shirt was soaked. 

[Cranberry]

Re: The cat murder. Spoilers for the next episode:

Spoiler

I think we were meant to accept that that was all an illusion, as we saw the real Pluto, Gucci collar and all, walk over his corpse at the end of his episode. She really had just gotten outside.

 

[Black Knight]

On 10/30/2023 at 4:25 AM, chediavolo said:

I don’t think Camille should have died at the hands of the poor tortured chimps. ( another reason I hate people) She was against it.

Like Verna said in her speech, so many animals are used for research and 90% of it doesn't pan out. If any of the Ushers ever had an issue with animal abuse for research, they made their peace with it forever ago. Their fortune comes from it. Camille didn't care about the chimps, who were merely the latest victims. It's just that she wanted to destroy Victorine and would use anything that would work regardless of how she personally felt about it.

It's not even torturing the chimps that would have been the issue for their father (animal abuse being nothing new), it was that Victorine was fudging the research to make the procedure look like a success when it wasn't, and not being honest that that was what she was doing, thus wasting Fortunata's money. The family's supposed to be honest with each other about what awful things they're doing in the family business. I remember when Roderick was explaining about the acidic materials in the tank, all that they had been doing to circumvent the law regarding those materials to avoid fines and charges, and said that if Prospero had paid the slightest bit of attention to the family business he would have known.

So while Victorine was the most on-the-nose person for the choice of who the chimp would kill, Camille is a reasonably appropriate target for the chimp's rage as well. Verna noted that Camille was as awful as Victorine.

[DrSpaceman73]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:04 AM, MrsR said:

Bruce Greenwood's speech about lemons was everything. Instant classic.

Extra special for Agents of Sheild fans.

At least Camille had some world-class invective to hurl before her untimely demise.

The monkey sounds over the closing credits was a creepy but funny addition.

 

 

 

 

Yes I came here to say, his lemon speech just sums up so much about American business and life. So good