S02.E10: The Last Supper Part One: Appetizer

[Rebecca berkowit]

Here’s (one of) the problem with the writing on this show.  They make arcs for the characters that are supposed to extend over the season,  such as “Miranda falls for Che, goes so far as to move to California, and then eventually realizes she belongs at home,” or “Carrie gets back with Aidan, goes so far as to buy a new house, and then eventually realizes it’s not going to work.”   In the first place we, the viewers, don’t need the “goes so far as,” or the “eventually.” We can see it’s not a good idea from the word go.  The initial premise is flawed.  Of course, that’s true in a lot of shows, that’s what drama is, without conflict it’s not interesting.  But the rest of it is not executed properly.  The middle is just so much filler.  The “going so far” part is too far; it’s just not believable for the character or any actual human being.   The end is no great payoff, either.  The characters may “eventually” learn from their mistakes, but we learn nothing.  They just come off as dumb people doing things nobody would ever do.   These aren’t arcs so much as straight dead ends.  Foregone conclusions.  If we can see it, why can’t they?  The old show used to at least string us along in a believable fashion with the progression of the relationships.  Good stories do that.  This one, you know where it’s going and you can’t believe they’re wasting so much of our time with the getting there.   

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[Rebecca berkowit]

10 minutes ago, Night Cheese said:

I guess time flies while we're over here banging our heads against the wall about the crappy writing.

Re: Che claiming Miranda brought Steve and Brady into their relationship: they may have been talking about Miranda insisting on being there every morning to wake Brady up on time and make breakfast. That seemed to cramp Che's life and schedule. Not that I'm defending how immature Che acted when they got all pissed off that Miranda's alarm was going off or that Miranda wanted to be more proactive in Bradys life, but I can see that Che might consider that baggage.

That is a charitable explanation.  I think this was just someone’s idea of what someone who was a married woman’s first non-straight partner would talk about.  If it didn’t fit the actual relationship, who cares?  

[PurpleTentacle]

Man, I'm not easily offended, but that conversation between Anthony and Giuseppe was offensive! I think if a boyfriend had just implied that I was a woman, because of what we do in bed, I'd punch him in the face. This was created by a gay man, right? Wow, just... wow.

I don't get how it's Brook's and Lily's parents responsibility to bring them shit at school. If I forgot something, tough. I just had to take being chewed out by the teacher and depending a bad grade. And let me tell you with my ADHD that happened quite a bit more than once.

Well Che wasn't funny in their old comedy specials on video and not in their new standup in the club.

[bluegirl147]

50 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

 If we can see it, why can’t they?

Because they aren't good writers. They just aren't.

51 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

The old show used to at least string us along in a believable fashion with the progression of the relationships.  Good stories do that.

They hit all the beats. That does not happen here

51 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

This one, you know where it’s going and you can’t believe they’re wasting so much of our time with the getting there.

With SATC sometimes we knew what was going to happen but it was enjoyable to watch them get there. This show not so much.

[slowpoked]

I feel like Aidan's apology to Carrie about how he also boxed her in, in their 2nd time around, was MPK appeasing the anti-Aidan fans out there. 

To me, while it's great that Aidan apologized, and time does give a lot of perspective, that didn't make sense to me. Yes, it takes two to tango, but to me, I still think Carrie is at fault for the failure of their engagement. Had she said NO when he asked, they would both be spared of the agonies moving in together, and their eventual breakup. Yes, Aidan would have been still hurt when Carrie said NO, but at least Carrie can claim she was being honest both to herself and Aidan, and she wanted to spare Aidan the agony of being with someone who wasn't ready to get married yet at that point in her life. (Which begs the question, if that had been Big who asked that question at that same moment in time, would Carrie have said yes in a more enthusiastic manner? But that's for a different day).

 

This is what happens when you write the series in service of fans' criticisms. Nothing will make sense.

[Penman61]

I’m a gay man in the same age/culture bracket as Anthony, and his top-or-bottom-only-ever is just factually wrong: how did so many of us contract hiv if a LOT of us weren’t both top and bottom, at least occasionally? I mean, individually, we like what we like, but that piece of his explanation/justification was weird.
 

And of course Anthony’s characterization of being the bottom as being “the woman” is so deeply offensive and misogynist that I’m surprised the younger enlightened cosmopolitan poet didn’t read him the riot act; that he didn’t shows Anthony (and MPK) have some very ugly anti-woman feeling coursing around in all that vaunted gender enlightenment gay men are supposed to have.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Penman61

[7EasyPayments]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:08 PM, T Summer said:

 I'll put the video on the media thread to not clog this up, but it appears they not only shot Noth in Paris for a fantasy  sequence  to go with the scattering of his ashes... but he seems to allude to filming  a ghostly visit to Carrie in NYC that was cut as well. Remember the lamp turning on or something that Carrie thought was some sort of sign from Big?

Was the lamp powered by the electricity generated by a stationary bicycle? 😁

[PurpleTentacle]

10 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

And, another thought … why was Aiden crying and taking the blame for his son’s accident?  It was his ex-wife’s weekend to care for the boys!  If anyone is to blame, it’s HER … not him!

That was way over the top. You can't control what 14 year olds are doing every second. I guess you can blame yourself for having raised such a dumbass. At that age, you should really know better. But that's about it.

It's also not like he is crippled for life. He broke a leg and his colar bone. Big whoop. I guess that is scary for a second, but nothing really bad happened and hopefully he'll learn from it. And on that note what was that whole "she didn't want to tell me until I got here"-thing?! How is a broken leg that much worse than a broken collar bone, that you can't tell somebody on the phone? lol

9 hours ago, violet and green said:

And why is that hideous grey bed so short, especially as she was planning to sleep in it with Country Lurch?

I think it just looked short because of the camera angle and because it's two whale-lengths wide. I guess with a bed this wide you never have to see each other if you ever have a fight...

9 hours ago, violet and green said:

And who was ever going to feed the kitten when she whipped off to Virginia?

She could probably drop the cat off at jewlery designers. She owes her a few. :D

8 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

I got the impression because Seema said “rate”, not “price”, that Carrie merely rented it to the girl.  And, it appears that Carrie already owns the new place.  She has moved her clothes and is starting to decorate and put up drapes.  

Seema did say "price" though.

5 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Anthony: Sure, nobody should say they are, or the other person is, “the woman” in a gay relationship, that’s outdated and offensive to gay men (and women in general).  But, if Anthony doesn’t want to do a particular activity, he should not have to.  I wouldn’t want to do anal, and if somebody insisted that I do so for some political reason I’d be out of there.  (Of course, I’m not a man, it might feel different for them, but I imagine that not all gay men are into that.)  I guess the other guy felt like Anthony was just objecting on philosophical grounds, because he is “a top.”  The guy seemed to think Anthony would enjoy it if he could just get over his old-fashioned beliefs about what it meant.  But maybe he just wasn’t comfortable being penetrated.  That wasn’t made clear.  His preferences should be respected.  Physical tastes don’t change just because the politics have.

Not doing anal because you don't like it: absolutely okay. Everybody has their preference. There are even (gay) men who don't like anal at all, no matter if they would be the recieving or giving partner.

Not doing anal because you think that makes you the woman: Ah, hell nah! You get out of this bed and you never come back! Especially if you say it that way! Out!

[Penman61]

Lol hold up, Che: why would Miranda not know what to do with a clitoris? She’s had one for 50+ years, no?

[Rebecca berkowit]

29 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I’m a gay man in the same age/culture bracket as Anthony, and his top-or-bottom-only-ever is just factually wrong: how did so many of us contract hiv if a LOT of us weren’t both top and bottom, at least occasionally? I mean, individually, we like what we like, but that piece of his explanation/justification was weird.
 

And of course Anthony’s characterization of being the bottom as being “the woman” is so deeply offensive and misogynist that I’m surprised the younger enlightened cosmopolitan poet didn’t read him the riot act; that he didn’t shows Anthony (and MPK) have some very ugly anti-woman feeling coursing around in all that vaunted gender enlightenment gay men are supposed to have.

Exactly!  And what’s so wrong with being a woman anyway?  ;). It’s not an insult, or it shouldn’t be.  Still, if Anthony doesn’t want to do a specific sex act, that’s his right.  I wasn’t sure where his refusal was coming from, but I was uncomfortable with the other guy’s insistence that he try it, or that he’d like it.  It seems like something you either know you would like, or you wouldn’t.  I’m saying this as a woman, of course.  This kind of triggered me.  Maybe it’s different with gay men, and maybe Anthony’s objection was purely based on outdated roles and not what he liked or didn’t like. 

9 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Lol hold up, Che: why would Miranda not know what to do with a clitoris? She’s had one for 50+ years, no?

That joke was so dumb! Why would she be waiting for it to get hard?  Or trying to get it hard?  That’s not necessary, it just does that on its own in the course of things.  Or was Che implying that it doesn’t get hard because it’s not a dick? Newsflash, Che. Erectile tissue is erectile tissue.  

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[PurpleTentacle]

1 minute ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

And what’s so wrong with being a woman anyway?  ;)

There is nothing wrong with being a woman, but you better not question my gender identity, just because I occasionally like it up the ass. You can't have a scene in this episode where Che complains about their boss getting their pronouns wrong and then have another scene where Giuseppe gets basically called a woman and that isn't even adressed. Giuseppe should have ripped Anthony a new one for that. Maybe he would have felt more comfortable to use that new hole for sex. ;p

6 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

 Still, if Anthony doesn’t want to do a specific sex act, that’s his right.

Of course it is. It's just not his right to be a homophobic ass about it.

[RedDelicious]

Omg Dolly Wells!! I loved Doll & Em ❤️

[7EasyPayments]

If Anthony does not want to bottom, that is his choice.

Characterizing it as female or 'less', NO.

But (pun intended), if the writing is consistent, bottoming a partner with a large penis is a process. 

A process.

But I think I am giving the writers more credit than they deserve.

[Rebecca berkowit]

25 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

There is nothing wrong with being a woman, but you better not question my gender identity, just because I occasionally like it up the ass. You can't have a scene in this episode where Che complains about their boss getting their pronouns wrong and then have another scene where Giuseppe gets basically called a woman and that isn't even adressed. Giuseppe should have ripped Anthony a new one for that. Maybe he would have felt more comfortable to use that new hole for sex. ;p

Of course it is. It's just not his right to be a homophobic ass about it.

The Che thing is different.  Anthony was not upset just at being called the wrong gender, like Che was.  He was upset specifically at being called a woman for being the receptive partner.  That’s not about actually questioning a man’s gender identity, that’s about consigning a man to what you believe is a lesser role, or a less “manly” one. Being the receptive partner, as women are, is considered by some men to be  lesser, and it’s considered that way BECAUSE it’s something women are.  Calling someone a woman, or a pussy, throwing like a girl, crying like a little girl, etc.,  it’s always an insult.   By contrast,  “Be a man,” “man up,” etc, is a good thing.  It’s unfair, and we don’t even realize how often we do it.  Anthony here is just one example.  You’re right, it’s misogyny.  Taking the receptive role should not be considered lesser, and being called a woman, as an insult, for doing it should be obsolete and nonsensical.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[RedDelicious]

I’m not even trying to be funny, my middle aged brain kept auto correcting Sam Smith to Stan Smith and that was not Stan Smith. But Sam Smith was lovely 💙

[luna1122again]

10 hours ago, Cloudly said:

 

Che. That was some unfunny standup (but they weren't wrong about what they said). As soon as Miranda said Che didn't know she was there I knew exactly what was going to happen. It really reiterated the impression of how wrong they were for each other. If Miranda reconciles with anyone, let it be Steve please. I was unsure of how to interpret the scene where they watched their old standup from 2012 when they identified as female.

Absolutely no reconciliation with Steve, plz. Or Che. 

10 hours ago, Cloudly said:

Steve. What a cute place and his lines felt so real and Steve-y (if still doddering). Did Aidan say he had invested money in the Coney Island joint?? Thought they were finally gonna address the business connections re: Scout but no. Oh well.

When Aidan said something about having lots of money tied up in the new place, Steve said "You didn't do so bad with Scout." So whether Aidan still is a silent partner there is not, they definitely acknowledged the connection. 

I liked the Coney Island scene. Love Steve's ocean view. Love that he's doing his new thing and moving on. 

10 hours ago, Cloudly said:

 

Charlotte. The other character in tandem with LTW who rebels against motherhood. It didn't feel all that believable Harry, Lily and Rock would suddenly start a calling/texting avalanche. I did like the Sam Smith cameo, they are so cute. Loved their giggling over the fangirling gallery associate after she curtseyed. 

That was cute. Charlotte looked so pretty at the brunch, in Barbie Pink. And she's always a funny drunk. My fave part was after screaming at her family, she opened the bedroom door for Richard Burton with a sweet "Hi Baby"

The kitten is still there! She's so pretty. She needs a name. Coco? Vivienne? Donatella?

I've seen people dragging on JC for his crying scene but I thought it was fine. Maybe I'm blinded by my JC love. 

Che...I don't know. Their act wasn't nice or especially funny, and I get why Miranda was upset, but I'm still annoyed enough at Miranda to not care as much. Tho, away from Che, she’s definitely more like the Miranda we used to know and love. 

I love Nya's apartment and I think it's the same set they used as Debi Mazar's apartment in Younger? Blowing a grand on a baby gift for her ex, tho, was wtf. 

I cried over the Stanny scene, even if I don't believe for a second that he'd ever become a monk. But the grief for Willie felt palpable between SJP and MC. 

I loved that ending song from Joy Oladokun. 

Carrie's dress in the preview for the dinner party is spectacular, to me, anyway. 

[luna1122again]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

Omg Dolly Wells!! I loved Doll & Em ❤️

I know her from Noel Fielding's show, I love him so much!  New love interest for Miranda, I guess, maybe? 

I'm as old as Miranda and have possessed a clitoris for a lotta years, but I have to say I'd really not know what to do with anyone else's. Mostly cuz I'm just very very straight,  and have no interest in anyone else's, probably. But Miranda definitely seemed game to try, that's half the battle, isn't it? It was a bad joke, not meant to be taken literally, I assume. 

[violet and green]

One thing I thought about after this episode: Is Sam Smith really a giant in real life? I had no idea. Charlotte looked like a tiny figurine in a 60s dinosaur movie next to SS in the gallery.

[TakomaSnark]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I’m a gay man in the same age/culture bracket as Anthony, and his top-or-bottom-only-ever is just factually wrong: how did so many of us contract hiv if a LOT of us weren’t both top and bottom, at least occasionally? I mean, individually, we like what we like, but that piece of his explanation/justification was weird.
 

And of course Anthony’s characterization of being the bottom as being “the woman” is so deeply offensive and misogynist that I’m surprised the younger enlightened cosmopolitan poet didn’t read him the riot act; that he didn’t shows Anthony (and MPK) have some very ugly anti-woman feeling coursing around in all that vaunted gender enlightenment gay men are supposed to have.

Anthony was definitely channeling MPK in the first movie, when he sees an ever-so-slightly less slim Samantha and says, 'Mother of god, what's with the gut!' The line that gave permission to the girls to also reveal their chagrin over Samantha's 'horrible' weight gain. 

 

[bluegirl147]

48 minutes ago, luna1122again said:

 

My fave part was after screaming at her family, she opened the bedroom door for Richard Burton with a sweet "Hi Baby"

 

 

That might have been my favorite scene ever on this show.

[realityplease]

Pwew! Only one more to go. 

Because I'm hate-watching again at this point. Characters turned into cartoons (staggering drunk Charlotte, Stanford the monk), or unlikeable because they're self-absorbed or insensitive to each other (mostly ALL of them mostly all of the time), or the story lines ridiculous (Miranda has no apartment, but a jewelry designer can afford to buy a doubled apartment (in NYC, even at a ridiculously low price?!?), or trite: Seema's love confession, Lisa's pregnancy, the ex's instantly pregnant girlfriend.  And why is everyone's makeup slathered on?

Why did we need to watch SJP slug down that entire martini glass full of liquid - presumably a cosmo - rather than listen to her impart witty dialogue? Is this what happens over age 50? Everything become pointless, exaggerated, slow, and not funny? Like this show?  Or is it just that the writers couldn't come up with any dialogue - so watching her glug down a drink was really the goal?  Piss poor tribute to Stannie, if that was the point - and it probably was.

Any ounce of wit or fun is gone. Was there even one funny thing said at the brunch? The comic, who should be funny, is the worst. Worse than worst - just cringe. We were spared when Che picked up the papers & ran to catch Miranda.

And stop already with the lectures. First, the pronoun lecture. I get the need for a different pronoun. I'll use it. But isn't there anything that doesn't confuse singular & plural? I'm always looking for several people when someone's referring to only one person.  But must adhere lest we're labeled unsympathetic or - horrors - old like the Vet.  Second, the bottom exposition.  I could have lived with a briefer discussion & without seeing Anthony's ass - unless the clever wit this show used to be known for had been employed. But it wasn't. It's all to serve a lesson now. 

Lisa's miscarriage. The $1000 buggy.  Why, just why? As for Aiden's tears - he didn't really pull it off.  And Sam Smith & fawning gallery person. Just why? 

The thrill is gone.  It's been gone since AJLT debuted last season. And afraid, it's never coming back. I should have stopped watching after SATC ended & before the movies (never saw the second, the first was so lame) & AJLT.  Magic's gone.

Even Samantha's "appearance" next week can't save this season. Too little, too late.

[John M]

5 hours ago, zamp33 said:

I found that the whole Che inviting Miranda  to go to California never made sense for either character. Che was pretty up front about their expectations of relationships, you would think they would want to go to California and focus solely on the show - gosh that show feels like it did not occur in this season. 

Che's standup was once again not funny - and if they knew that Carrie was coming they should have given her a heads up that they were going to talk about Miranda. Miranda has been one of Carrie's closest friends for years. 

Not just talk about Miranda, repeatedly trash her, in public. Remember, in this timeline, Che has a close friendship with Carrie independent of Miranda, Che should know that a comedy set just repeatedly bashing one of their friends closest and oldest friend is absolutely disgusting and uncalled for.

Carrie's response absolutely should not have been, you and Che need to get along at my party, it should have been reading Che the riot act and telling them they are no longer invited to the party and that she is seriously is seriously reconsidering them having a friendship at all.

My ex I will fully admit was a shit-stirring pill, he still can be, he also had wonderful qualities that others sometimes didn't see and I would be absolutely livid if one of my friends started bashing him in public.

Same with my husband's ex, what he did to my husband I would fully consider unforgivable, but my husband forgave him, he is part of our life and I wouldn't dare share how awful he was to my husband at the end of their relationship.

Also, in this world and despite the confusing working the front desk at a vet office, isn't Che supposed to be kind of famous and it is likely that someone would be able to identify the ex they were referring to. Just disgusting behavior.

Edited August 18, 2023 by John M

[violet and green]

At least they managed to call it a "comedy show" this season and not a "comedy concert".

I just don't know what planet the "writers" of this show are on.

[Lethallyfab]

If I were the acting coach who taught John Corbett to fake cry, I would simply ask for 100% of my money back.

Does Carrie need to call Miranda’s sponsor?  Day-drinking 3 days a week?

Did Miranda learn nothing from her previous comedy experience where her date’s *wife* called his cell and the comic heckled her mercilessly for it?

Bonus points for flashbacking to show that Che has always been and will always be a hack comic.

At least Carrie now has a cute kitten to comfort her when the inevitable break-up with Aidan happens next episode.

I also didn’t need Aidan telling Carrie that he was the problem all along.  No, *she* accepted that proposal.  *She* should’ve turned it down if she wasn’t ready for it.  An engagement is not the same as a marriage, if you’re unprepared for the latter, you shouldn’t say yes to the former.

[CeeBeeGee]

15 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Miranda, stop expecting the world to rotate around your feelings after you've spent two years disregarding the feelings of others.

I didn't feel one bit sorry for her. Not one bit. Now you know what Steve felt like, Miranda.

 

8 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Also, Che’s standup is not funny, nor was Cheryl’s.  (Are we to take from this that part of the reason Che was unhappy as Cheryl and eventually came out as non-binary was because Cheryl had to diet to please men?  There must be more to it than that.)  Che’s set about Miranda was just awful.  Talking about how inept Miranda was sexually?  Even male comics don’t talk like that about women.  (Women comics sometimes talk about how men are inept, but not quite like that).  And it wasn’t “just comedy,” either, no matter what Che says.  It came off as how Che really felt, and it was vile.  Che broke the cardinal rule of comedy- you can be mean, as long as you are funny.  It wasn’t funny.  Miranda was totally right to be hurt and to tell Che off.  Che is just awful, selfish, unfunny, and mean.  Full stop.

I didn't feel sorry for Miranda--and I also loved that Che was so painfully unfunny at their set. And apparently they've never been funny!

 

5 hours ago, Linda956 said:

The way they made Coney Island and the boardwalk look in this episode was beautiful.  That's not the way it really looks.  Most of the time the beach, boardwalk and amusement area looks like a shithole.  I was there 2 weeks ago because we were craving a Nathan's hotdog.  I have to assume the set crew came in and "cleaned up" the place significantly.  If it looked like it did in this episode, I would be there more often.

WORD. Luna Park is fun but the boardwalk is shabby and the beach itself is absolutely disgusting. The sand is full of cigarette butts. Brighton Beach and Far Rockaway are much nicer beaches.

 

2 hours ago, luna1122again said:

That was cute. Charlotte looked so pretty at the brunch, in Barbie Pink. And she's always a funny drunk. My fave part was after screaming at her family, she opened the bedroom door for Richard Burton with a sweet "Hi Baby"

That was adorable!

[Snazzy Daisy]

I truly love the part where Charlotte lets Richard Burton in after drunk-yelling at her family. “Hi baby…” 💕😆

That’s a sweet tribute to Stanford Blatch, with cosmos and everything. Love the meta moment about his photo being photoshopped.

Inner peace is the new success, Stanny. So, bravo! 👏🏻 

Quote

“Carrie, for the first time in my life, I felt peace. Real peace. I have let go of all things that no longer serve me. And I let it all go with love.”

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[EtheltoTillie]

20 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

 

Does Carrie need to call Miranda’s sponsor?  Day-drinking 3 days a week?

 

Was she drinking?  I missed that.  Can you fill us in?  I don't have the bandwidth to rewatch. 

[realityplease]

11 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Inner peace is the new success, Stanny. So, bravo! 👏🏻 

“Carrie, for the first time in my life, I felt peace. Real peace. I have let go of all things that no longer serve me. And I let it all go with love.”

Yes, well, but he also let go of Anthony - who was what - also just "a thing" that no longer served him?  And let him go without reaching out to him at all.  Ghosting someone you married? How is that letting go with love? 

Big deal - he left his possessions behind for Anthony.  But not even one last personal word.  A crappy chicken-shit way to end things.  What did Anthony do to deserve that? (Because, seriously, I don't remember what caused Stanford to leave for Japan other than a client.)

Carrie even keeps the picture.  She couldn't, at very least, have offered to make a copy for Anthony? How hard is that?  These are some very self-centered self-absorbed selfish people in MPK's world.

[greekmom]

You all have beat me but here are my thoughts:

Anthony: I can see him telling he doesn't feel comfy with anal but comeon, the guy is gay and was always portrayed as sleeping with every Tom, Dick and Harry and he has yet to do anal? I find it hard to believe.  I agree with everyone regarding the wife comments.  I DO NOT agree with the way the treated Stanton.  I disagree with the storyline and they should have had him die. Preferably heroically saving some poor dog.

Che/Miranda: Che's act sucks. They were a comedian? I find it hard to believe. The fact they used Miranda and very badly in the comedy act sucked. I am not a Miranda fan but Miranda getting up to make Brady breakfast which ruined Che's sleeping time was stupid. Che was sitting on the damn couch, eating and playing video games. They were doing NOTHING. They could have slept at any freaking time.  But Miranda still doesn't get a pass.

Steve: Getting the stand in Coney Island is a step up from Scout the bar? Since when? Wouldn't a step up be a bistro or restaurant?  Again, no make sense.

The Wexlys: What a bullcrap storyline of Lisa getting pregnant then miscarriage. Grow a spine and show a woman taking the alternative choice if they don't want to have a baby!

The York-Goldblatts: Good on Charlotte - those kids are so spoiled, bratty and self centered. Charlotte should have shut down the running their notebooks once they got to junior high or high school. She shouldn't have called her husband and good on her for going out and getting drunk with her co-workers.

Aiden/Carrie: How long has Aiden been separated/divorced? Cause I cannot believe this is the first time either he or his ex wife have either been dating or introduced a gf/bf to the kids.  Aiden should be worried - its his son but the amount of panic was like he had neglected his duties as a parent (he didn't) and that the accident was his fault or sort of his fault. The only wrong thing Aiden is doing is being such a dick about that apartment.  His excuse to Carrie doesn't hold water. 

I really hate these people - and the writing. It all sucks.

[Lethallyfab]

36 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

57 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

 

Was she drinking?  I missed that.  Can you fill us in?  I don't have the bandwidth to rewatch. 

I think I may have worded that confusingly — Carrie is the one day-drinking 3 times a week (beers with Steve, cosmos with Anthony, brunch), which, yeah, is apparently only an issue when Miranda does it, Carrie gets a free pass.

I am so tired of women on TV having super-convenient miscarriages.  The writers love to introduce a pregnancy for the MAXIMUM DRAMA of it all but when it comes to the repercussions of having an actual  kid to influence the plot, it’s just magically hand-waved away.

[EtheltoTillie]

7 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

I think I may have worded that confusingly — Carrie is the one day-drinking 3 times a week (beers with Steve, cosmos with Anthony, brunch), which, yeah, is apparently only an issue when Miranda does it, Carrie gets a free pass.

I am so tired of women on TV having super-convenient miscarriages.  The writers love to introduce a pregnancy for the MAXIMUM DRAMA of it all but when it comes to the repercussions of having an actual  kid to influence the plot, it’s just magically hand-waved away.

I think you're saying that Miranda had to go to AA, but Carrie drinks just as much as Miranda.  Yeah, they made Miranda into a problem drinker last season.  But she's still sober in the episodes no? 

[bichonblitz]

7 hours ago, Linda956 said:

That's not the way it really looks.  Most of the time the beach, boardwalk and amusement area looks like a shithole.  I was there 2 weeks ago because we were craving a Nathan's hotdog.  I have to assume the set crew came in and "cleaned up" the place significantly.  If it looked like it did in this episode, I would be there more often.

I was there years ago in October and it looked just like that. It was "off season" so not many people walking around there. It was clean, and we ate hot dogs at Nathan's. It was a great day. 

I think Anthony is a miserable asshole. He's never happy. Why people like him I will never understand. 

Aiden crying in his car was uncomfortable for me. The camera was kept on him too long so we had to watch his fake tears and wailing like a child. For me, the character of Aiden and his comeback has been butchered. I used to really like the guy. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by bichonblitz

[TakomaSnark]

18 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I think you're saying that Miranda had to go to AA, but Carrie drinks just as much as Miranda.  Yeah, they made Miranda into a problem drinker last season.  But she's still sober in the episodes no? 

We haven't seen Carrie stashing little liquor bottles in her handbags. Miranda was definitely implied to be getting hammered all day long.

[John M]

I don't think they over-exaggerated the car accident at all, 1. he could have easily died in it, might have extensive rehabilitation and lifelong PTSD. 2. He totaled a stolen car that he was driving illegally while drunk. That is not a youthful lashing out, those are very serious crimes that could have very serious consequences for both him and his parents.

So no, it's not just two broken bones, at a minimum it is going to be a serious legal inquiry and likely legal charges that could put him in juvenile detention if not tried as an adult.

Also, as a married gay man, no, I don't buy Anthony thinking that was OK to say, one of the most infuriating things, and thankfully, they have had the decency to not drag sex acts into it, is straight people suggesting as gay married men, one of us must be taking the "female" role, not just sex but in things like emotional labor and household work.

[Scarlett45]

I understand why Aidan was upset- parent guilt is REAL and Wyatt was seriously hurt. No it wasn’t Aidan’s fault at all (the boy was left in the care of his mother, Aidan wasn’t being neglectful or an absent parent), but because Aidan loves his son, he wishes he would’ve been there to comfort him. 
 

Im sure neither Kathy nor Aidan ever told the boy it was okay to sneak out, hitch hike, or drive drunk (damn it he could’ve hurt himself worse or someone else!) but when things like that happen, after knowing your child is okay, you wonder what you could’ve done differently.

Single parents have a right to a social life etc, so long as their child is left with a responsible person (the child’s other bio parent being a good choice), but I can see how Aidan sees the difference between Kathy who likely has a local boyfriend compared to him who’s flying around and disappearing for a week at a time (rather than a couple of hours or an evening). 

Just now, John M said:

I don't think they over-exaggerated the car accident at all, 1. he could have easily died in it, might have extensive rehabilitation and lifelong PTSD. 2. He totaled a stolen car that he was driving illegally while drunk. That is not a youthful lashing out, those are very serious crimes that could have very serious consequences for both him and his parents.

So no, it's not just two broken bones, at a minimum it is going to be a serious legal inquiry and likely legal charges that could put him in juvenile detention if not tried as an adult.

That too!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

And why didn’t she, once she realized her hubby didn’t actually get the vasectomy eight years ago, get an IUD or something?  Did he not tell her?  Was this the first she’s hearing about it?  That’s unconscionable, but if that’s the case, why did it take till now to get pregnant again?  

She (or he) probably used birth control up to the point where she thought she wasn't fertile anymore-perhaps she hasn't menstruated for a year or so.  As she said to Charlotte: "How did this happen? I thought I moved out of Babyville, but apparently, I still live right on the border."  These things happen.

On 8/17/2023 at 8:33 AM, bluegirl147 said:

On 8/17/2023 at 6:03 AM, ChattyCathyLA said:

And, another thought … why was Aiden crying and taking the blame for his son’s accident?  It was his ex-wife’s weekend to care for the boys!  If anyone is to blame, it’s HER … not him!  

Because Aidan is thinking if I wasn't up here in NYC playing house with Carrie the accident wouldn't have happened.  

21 hours ago, zamp33 said:

Agree - Something might have happened regardless of Aidan being there or not. Also it was not his weekend. And didn't the son get his phone taken away by his mother - pure speculation on my part - but it sounds like Wyatt is wither a typical teen lashing out at his mom who is probably stricter than Aidan, or he resents Aidan going to NYC and is playing the parents against each other. Either way the kid has mental health issues - like most teens do these days - and Carrie didn't really come across as understanding that. The question is whether Wyatt was getting help all along - there were lots of signs from the little interactions we saw and I am sure a school/teacher/counselor would have been on it right away.

Exactly.  Wyatt had asked him to come home after he got into the fight with his mother and he didn't, so he feels guilty.  That's normal.  Wyatt's still a kid, and he could have died.

22 hours ago, 2JEWELL said:

His Mother has every right to ask Carrie not use her kids as material for her writing, and still be surprised when one sneaks out of the house. It doesn’t make her irresponsible.

Yes. Regarding opinions that this is all his mother's fault because it was her week with the kids, unless you put locks on all the doors that a 14 year old can't figure out, he can run away if he really wants to.  And parents don't have a magical ability to know where their teen is every second.  And the older brothers can't and shouldn't have to, either.  Perhaps Aidan shouldn't have left the keys to his truck where Wyatt could find them. But of course, neither of them anticipated this.

As to why Wyatt is acting out more now than before; he's 14.  He's likely going through puberty and being flooded with hormones, on top of whatever mental issues he has.  And if Aidan had flown home this time, the next time Wyatt had a fight (possibly with Aidan), he might have done something equally as dangerous.  Yes, he needs therapy, and I'm sure he'll get it, following the investigation into how the accident happened.

22 hours ago, 2JEWELL said:

Im not convinced that LTW didn’t have that abortion. Otherwise what was the point of that storyline?

Why would she agree to go to the hospital if she was responding the way she would expect to if she had taken an abortifacient?  Why would she lie to the husband who left the decision up to her?  That doesn't make any sense.

Edited August 18, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Jax7917]

I’m starting to like the series more this season, though I do think they have too many characters now and because of that , the storylines for each of them are short and pointless, making it hard to care about any of them .
 

Charlottes face seemed less botoxed this episode and she looked much better in her scenes . Did anyone else notice that too or was it just me lol 

[John M]

5 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I’m a gay man in the same age/culture bracket as Anthony, and his top-or-bottom-only-ever is just factually wrong: how did so many of us contract hiv if a LOT of us weren’t both top and bottom, at least occasionally? I mean, individually, we like what we like, but that piece of his explanation/justification was weird.

I have a friend in the same age bracket who will go to the grave insisting he acquired HIV through receptive oral sex, which is not a thing, like, to my knowledge there hasn't even been a documented case of it, although it is theoretically possible, possibly.

And the thing is, it's not like he has a reputation to uphold like being a safer sex pillar of the community, everyone knows he would fuck anything that moved back in the 90s, half the time black out drunk. We roll our eyes and move on.

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

Charlottes face seemed less botoxed this episode and she looked much better in her scenes . Did anyone else notice that too or was it just me lol 

No it wasn’t just you. Kristen Davis’ filler seems to have dissolved and she looks more like her gorgeous self. 

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, luna1122again said:

My fave part was after screaming at her family, she opened the bedroom door for Richard Burton with a sweet "Hi Baby"

I did love that.  Of course Richard Burton is going to be on Charlotte's good side no matter what.   

I also loved that Carrie ended up keeping the kitten. 

I thought John Corbett's acting in the car was terrible.  He's just not a strong actor.  I also think realistically, after a few days and perhaps a discussion with Kathy, Aidan would realize that the accident wasn't about his not being there, and could easily have happened with both parents at home.  That isn't to say he won't need to be home more, but the self-blame should really start to ease.   

Finally, I really liked Miranda's purple and yellow coat.  She looked great in that.

 

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

The scene with Che's set was a promising idea. Artists let's go with "performers," re: Che, mine their personal lives for their material. We see it in popular music as well, sometimes controversially: Bob Dylan's many songs about his wife when they were getting divorced (one song literally named "Sara"), Joni Mitchell and her famous ex-boyfriends, Justin's "Cry Me a River" song about Britney, Taylor Swift and her famous ex-boyfriends, the woman from The Chicks and her "Gaslighter" song about her actor ex-husband, etc. 

So, of course, Miranda was going to provide Che's fresh material; it wasn't going to be a set about video games or working at the vet. But the scene didn't work. It came off both unpleasant and half-assed. Obviously, the comedy being funnier would have counted for a lot by itself. The way we should have been feeling as viewers is "This is brutal for Miranda to sit through, but I have to admit, if I were in a club watching this and didn't know who the other person in the relationship was, I'd be rolling on the floor." But we already knew AJLT's writers cannot create a funny stand-up set, and they're like 0-for-7 on that now. Then, also, Che and Miranda hadn't had any interactions since their break-up (not that I'm complaining), and the whole time the club scene was going on, I was confused about whether Che knew Miranda was present or was looking right at her in that tiny club (until they discussed it outside).

This would have been a great story beat if the whole Che/Miranda story had been building to it, and if they'd made it a parallel within the same episode to Kathy's request that Carrie not use her and Aidan's sons for material. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by NotMySekrit2Tell

[JeanJean]

Has anyone else noticed John Corbett looking like Craig Nelson?

[RedDelicious]

I always notice strange little details and I don’t have an id on Carrie’s shoes yet but they looked like they had plastic heel protectors on them. 

I really loved that scene.

[QQQQ]

3 hours ago, realityplease said:

And stop already with the lectures. First, the pronoun lecture. I get the need for a different pronoun. I'll use it. But isn't there anything that doesn't confuse singular & plural? I'm always looking for several people when someone's referring to only one person. 

Neopronouns to the rescue!

I have more thoughts but there are now so many ads on the forums leading to page crashes, I'm keeping this short and sweet!

[JeanJean]

16 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

That was some bad fake crying by John Corbett. 

I call it "dry cryin'" and I spotted it, too.  It's hard to cry on cue and directors should just let actors do the scene without forcing it and if tears come, they come. If not, it can still be emotional for the character. And Aiden was crying like his son was dead, which he wasn't. He wasn't even in danger of anything serious. Aiden's guilt would have been just as believable without the over-the-top crying. Crying from relief (like crying-laughing) would have worked, too.

Carrie's whole life is an "event" to her. She needs to grow up and realize not everyone can make it (or want to make it) to every event.

Edited August 18, 2023 by JeanJean

[TiredMe]

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

 

Charlottes face seemed less botoxed this episode and she looked much better in her scenes . Did anyone else notice that too or was it just me lol 

Me too! In the brunch scene I thought she looked gorgeous and so much like her pre fillers self. 
 

for those critiquing the Stanford decision I recommend listening to the podcast on the episode. Interesting. One thing they said was Sarah Jessica made the decision to just gulp down the drink. 

[JeanJean]

4 hours ago, John M said:

Not just talk about Miranda, repeatedly trash her, in public. Remember, in this timeline, Che has a close friendship with Carrie independent of Miranda, Che should know that a comedy set just repeatedly bashing one of their friends closest and oldest friend is absolutely disgusting and uncalled for.

Carrie's response absolutely should not have been, you and Che need to get along at my party, it should have been reading Che the riot act and telling them they are no longer invited to the party and that she is seriously is seriously reconsidering them having a friendship at all.

My ex I will fully admit was a shit-stirring pill, he still can be, he also had wonderful qualities that others sometimes didn't see and I would be absolutely livid if one of my friends started bashing him in public.

Same with my husband's ex, what he did to my husband I would fully consider unforgivable, but my husband forgave him, he is part of our life and I wouldn't dare share how awful he was to my husband at the end of their relationship.

Also, in this world and despite the confusing working the front desk at a vet office, isn't Che supposed to be kind of famous and it is likely that someone would be able to identify the ex they were referring to. Just disgusting behavior.

Gotta disagree. As Che reminded Miranda, they're a standup comic and that's their job. And that's the kind of material they do, not Seinfeldian "What's up with trash cans?"  One of the things that attracted Miranda to Che was their comedy. (I still say writing a standup as a character in your show is possibly best avoided. It's hard to write good standup. Different thing from comedy dialogue.)

In other words, ya date Taylor Swift, she's gonna write a song about you.

What Che could have done was tell Carrie in advance that they would be doing material about their relationship with Miranda.

I have to call out Carrie as the high schooler here. It's very high school to demand your friends come to something despite the deep hurt they've experienced with other guests, no matter who was right or wrong. And it's only 16 people, not 200 people where they could avoid each other.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by JeanJean

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

I was confused about whether Che knew Miranda was present or was looking right at her in that tiny club (until they discussed it outside).

From the scene showing Che's POV, it appeared that a light was right in Che's face, so they wouldn't have been able to see Miranda until she was leaving the performance.    

[JeanJean]

(Sorry if this is a duplicate. I thought I'd posted it but I can't tell if it went through.)

 

Has anyone else noticed John Corbett looking a lot like Craig Nelson?

[John M]

1 hour ago, JeanJean said:

Gotta disagree. As Che reminded Miranda, they're a standup comic and that's their job. And that's the kind of material they do, not Seinfeldian "What's up with trash cans?"  One of the things that attracted Miranda to Che was their comedy. (I still say writing a standup as a character in your show is possibly best avoided. It's hard to write good standup. Different thing from comedy dialogue.)

The number one rule of comedy that differences you from being a unfunny bully and a comic is punching down.

Che was punching down, they acknowledged that Miranda was going through a very confused period in her personal life, something very difficult to go through as a separated, long term married person with a child, trying to understand her sexuality, dealing with career change and being in recovery.

What they did was cruel, specifically cruel to a person they knew had opened up personal vulnerabilities to them, they were specific, intentional and mean.

They didn't have to abandon their set, they could have been general, they said the next part was going to be self-deprecating, that could have been their whole act.

For someone that constantly whines about how their sexuality and gender is misunderstood they showed no compassion for someone trying to understand themselves for the first time in their, what, 50s?

 

No, I'm going to stand by my assessment, Che is awful.