Season 25 Live Feeds Discussion

[Thalia]

The Coven plus Bowie made Red breakfast in bed.  Eggs, bacon, pancakes and woke him up.  They are all wearing little party hats.  He looks pleased, but REALLY tired.  

[Nashville]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, feeds are back. Jag's officially on the block and really believes this is a "trust exercise" with the house.

I knew we could count on El Dong to shake up nominations with something unique and unexpected, I just knew it!  🙄

 

18 hours ago, pennben said:

No reason to jump too soon.

Whatever you say, Helen.  😆

17 hours ago, blixie said:

You can't ever jump if you have no boat to jump to. The question is who is Meme building relationships with to flip on Cirie/Izzy? Jared No Bowie No Matt No, Blue No, that's six and leaves her/C/A/ possibly Felicia. Math ain't mathing. 

You left out the refrigerator in the storage room.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Thalia said:

The Coven plus Bowie made Red breakfast in bed.  Eggs, bacon, pancakes and woke him up.  They are all wearing little party hats.  He looks pleased, but REALLY tired.  

It IS very sweet but, yeah, the guy JUST woke up. He's either happy crying or his eyes are burning from the bright lights. 

Maybe have someone make sure he's awake first before sending in the breakfast. Still a very sweet gesture, though.

[Thalia]

I've never been served breakfast in bed.  But watching Red?  It looks pretty boring.  

ETA:  Bowie just said her last name is Jane.   Who knew?  Not me or Felicia.  And Red just joined the girls in the backyard.  He still looks exhausted. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Thalia

[LeDucDiableBleu]

When they were making the breakfast they made enough food for the rest of the house too. I thought it was funny when they were cooking it, one of them said "we need to hurry up and set this out because people will probably be up soon" and then the camera cut to the bedrooms and everyone was still dead asleep.

Re: Cirie's type of game play, I always had a soft spot for Cirie because I thought she got screwed by Survivor two times. In Micronesia she was the mastermind behind Ozzy's blindside and convinced his closest allies to do it. Then, Jeff gave Parvati the credit for that move and Parv ended up winning the season. The other time was in 2nd Chances or whatever it was called and everyone had played some stupid idol or power and Cirie was the only one left standing by default. Even though no one voted for her she was out. Then Jeff said "the tribe has spoken" and I was like no, the tribe didn't speak that, Jeff! I don't remember her other two times on Survivor though. And she's been given so many advantages in BB I actually think it's kind of insulting. She played 10 times harder on Survivor and this is seriously a cake walk for her right now.

 

 

[Lady Calypso]

So, Cirie/Izzy are talking about the next few boots that they'd like.

Obviously, ideally, Cameron is the last pre-juror, then it's roughly (in their mind) Red, Felicia, Matt, Blue, then Cory. It might not be in that order, but it looks like that's roughly what they want to do. They want Felicia out much, much earlier than I think they should be. I mean, Felicia is not going to win the endgame comps. She won't do well with the physical, and she can't even remember who she put up on her HOH so mental comps are also less likely.

And keeping around Cory/America that long is a huge risk (but hey, I like the two, so fine by me!).

Obviously, this is all subject to change at some point (probably later today, let's be real).

I know there's also been speculation on what twist they'll have to make next Wednesday's episode two hours (it has to be more than a veto). I know some are speculating a surprise eviction or a split house and I don't think this is it at all, given we're one eviction away from jury after Thursday. 

However, to entertain the idea of a split house twist, this is the split I would want:

Outdoors: Izzy, Jared, America, Mecole, Red, Felicia

Indoors: Cirie, Cory, Cameron, Matt, Bowie Jane, Blue

I was trying to think of the best possible split with the most chaos. Cirie being split from Izzy/Jared/Felicia is a must. Matt and Cameron cannot be split with America (it's already a risk with Jared/Red and America, but I actually think Izzy would fight for America). Bowie Jane needs to be split from Red. Blue/Jared and Cory/America need to be split too. 

I think the above may not be EXTREMELY entertaining but the least frustrating with the most potential to be fun. Izzy vs Jared without Cirie would oodles of fun to watch. America can have the chance to really bond with Izzy and Mecole. Red would be a primary target for that side. 

And on the other side, without her closest minions, I think Cirie/Cory could be a true force to be reckoned with. Sure, Matt would be involved, but Matt can't push for America and I think pushing for Cory would clash with Cirie's plans, who likely wants Cameron or Blue to go. Bowie would join up with Cirie for sure. So it would be Matt pushing for Cory and sketching Cirie out even more. 

I know, there's better split house paths that could be taken, but the above one doesn't make my blood boil with the likeihood of certain people leaving over others. The only necessary stipulations is Cirie not being with Izzy/Jared/Felicia and the showmances being split up.

[30 Helens]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

They want Felicia out much, much earlier than I think they should be.

Cirie wants her out because she can’t keep her mouth shut. She’s annoyed because Felicia told Panama that Jag is going. Cory is saying that Felicia would make a good pawn, and maybe should stay around awhile for that.

Earlier, Felicia told Izzy that she told Panama, but that she stressed it wasn’t definite. She told Panama they would give her a final decision on Thursday. Izzy was like, um, maybe you should try to make her feel more included and not just dictated to? Felicia insisted she did. (She didn’t. She likes the power.) She also told Panama that she is not allowed to tell Jag. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Cirie wants her out because she can’t keep her mouth shut. She’s annoyed because Felicia told Panama that Jag is going. Cory is saying that Felicia would make a good pawn, and maybe should stay around awhile for that.

Earlier, Felicia told Izzy that she told Panama, but that she stressed it wasn’t definite. She told Panama they would give her a final decision on Thursday. Izzy was like, um, maybe you should try to make her feel more included and not just dictated to? Felicia insisted she did. (She didn’t. She likes the power.) She also told Panama that she is not allowed to tell Jag. 

That's actually not the primary reason why she wants her out.

Cirie wants Felicia out because Felicia went to Jared, proposed a F2 and talked about cutting Cirie.

That's what at least started Cirie's anti-Felicia stance. 

It's still a dumb idea. Cirie needs people like Felicia in the endgame, because she could beat her in comps if she wanted to. They can easily cut her F6, F5 or F4. Felicia won't be able to gain an army if Cirie cuts them week after week. I think Cirie's more afraid of Felicia gaining allies on her own but honestly, once she realizes Felicia doesn't really have anyone in her corner, she'll reconsider. I don't see this sticking for too long.

[peachmangosteen]

Another way Cirie having Jared is such a huge advantage.

I need Felicia to catch wind that Izzy and Cirie are throwing her all the way under the bus and trying to get her evicted next. I know Felicia won’t take that lying down like the other idiots lol.

[diana]

2 hours ago, Thalia said:

ETA:  Bowie just said her last name is Jane.   Who knew?  Not me or Felicia.

That is so strange. Like why did BB have her and her only be known by her full name? I swear that's how she was introduced. Oh well. I'm glad because one of my favorite clips might be Felicia, "Fuckin' Bowie Jane."

On another note, I haven't been following all the misogyny closely, but Matt quoting Andrew Tate? That is rough. I know Jag didn't push back, but he may not know who that is? But Matt, I'm beyond disappointed that he follows that man in any way. And I don't care that that quote was not "bad."

[Thalia]

7 minutes ago, diana said:

On another note, I haven't been following all the misogyny closely, but Matt quoting Andrew Tate? That is rough. I know Jag didn't push back, but he may not know who that is? But Matt, I'm beyond disappointed that he follows that man in any way. And I don't care that that quote was not "bad."

I had never heard of him and once I looked him up and wish I hadn't.  Gross.  I was going to call him a horrible human being, but I hate to call him human.  It doesn't even help to say that maybe Matt knows him from the UK BB, because he kicked off that because people found information about his views and treatment of women and justifiably protested his inclusion on the show.  

[Gummo]

Jared's making sense!

 

... what universe is this?

[Lady Calypso]

In other news, a flip flop is in the works!

Until they unanimously evict Jag anyway.

But they're still planning a flip flop on Red....ON HIS BIRTHDAY! That's worse than ON ROCKSTAR'S DAUGHTER'S BIRTHDAY!

In all seriousness, I don't buy it and Jag's still gone on Thursday. He actually needs to go because he's just gonna take him staying as a sign of loyalty to the 7 and then we get stuck with his bad takes for another week before he's unanimously evicted NEXT week.

[Katesus7]

Yeah, I was reading they needed to "talk to Cirie" about flipping back to Red.  That right there is what sucks ass about this season.  No one can wipe their damn ass without checking with what Cirie thinks!

[Gummo]

Cirie will get her way -- as always -- but Jared makes a lot of sense about breaking up Red-Cam for good now, even if they are on the outs at the moment.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Katesus7 said:

Yeah, I was reading they needed to "talk to Cirie" about flipping back to Red.  That right there is what sucks ass about this season.  No one can wipe their damn ass without checking with what Cirie thinks!

The issue is that Cirie is already thinking of a post-Jag world, planting seeds with Red and dealing with the remnants of Jag's alliance.

She's not keeping Jag, at this point, which means he is gone.

That being said, even though Red/Cameron need to get broken up, a Jag/Blue/Matt trio where they're ALSO trying to pull in Cam and Bowie Jane is actually a worse outcome. Not just for Cirie, but for us.

At least, with Red/Cam, one of them is likely to go next week. If Jag stays, I'm not quite sure what'll happen, but it won't be fun for us to watch. 

Cirie's winning, anyway. We need to make the rest of this season as pleasant for us as viewers, and Jag staying just solidifies this fake ass seven where we have ANOTHER week of Jag being played for a fool, Blue being a fool, and Jag either getting unanimously evicted finally, or America getting caught in the crossfires.

[30 Helens]

4 hours ago, Thalia said:

Bowie just said her last name is Jane.   Who knew?  Not me or Felicia.  

I think it may be her stage name? I’ve seen her name listed as “Bowie Jane Ball” as well as just Bowie Jane. I heard her say that Jane is her last name, and that it’s a common last name in Australia, but she’s cagey about all kinds of weird stuff (like her age). She’s also not telling them she’s a lawyer, which I understand.  Felicia thinks she’s an actress.

I’m going to have to stop watching feeds because everything changes so fast that all strategy conversations are irrelevant. Earlier, I heard Jag and Blue listing all the reasons that he could not possibly be going home, and all I could think was, poor deluded Jag, what a shock you’re in for. I guess it’s still poor, deluded Jag, just no shock yet?

ETA: Or maybe so. I can’t even make a post before the wind starts blowing the other way. These people are killing me!

Edited September 5, 2023 by 30 Helens

[HelpMeRondah]

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

think it may be her stage name? I’ve seen her name listed as “Bowie Jane Ball” as well as just Bowie Jane. I heard her say that Jane is her last name, and that it’s a common last name in Australia, but she’s cagey about all kinds of weird stuff (like her age).

I just read that her actual name is Miranda Ball, and Bowie Jane is her stage name. 

[blixie]

Quote

That right there is what sucks ass about this season.

I think we've seen Jared in his feeling about his mom, he supposedly said he might put her on the block when she kiboshed him putting up America last minute. So, I think it's possible he may eventually end round her. Very unlikely but the chance isn't zero!

 

Quote

Jag staying just solidifies this fake ass seven where we have ANOTHER week of Jag being played for a fool,

I still think Jag is better keep at least for my Cory/America rooting self, because its not like Red is any better especially now after the heartbreaking betrayal of Cam, Cam could have riled Red about and worked on him but that seems out. I see Red/Jag as equally dumb/Cirie misted so this is one week where you could literally flip a coin, but yeah I don't see Cirie making the same mistake twice re: keeping Jag.

Twitter was mad at Cory for still talking to Cam, but like if Jag is going not sure he has a lot of other options, he needs whatever marginally Not Cirie people are willing to go after her/Jared/Izzy, its ideal to use him to take the shot, so then you can get him out after. Like if BB won't do the right thing and get the sexual harasser out of there they are kind of stuck.

[Mediocre Gatsby]

6 minutes ago, blixie said:

I think we've seen Jared in his feeling about his mom, he supposedly said he might put her on the block when she kiboshed him putting up America last minute. So, I think it's possible he may eventually end round her. Very unlikely but the chance isn't zero!

I think this is the plan: for Jared to take over Cirie's place as the Fields Family Reality Show Famewhore. He'll put her up, vote her out, and say "Bye, Mom" as she leaves. Then she won't have to worry about him getting a job; he'll be set for life. Going from show to show, spreading misogyny and DNA samples. 

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, blixie said:

I still think Jag is better keep at least for my Cory/America rooting self, because its not like Red is any better especially now after the heartbreaking betrayal of Cam, Cam could have riled Red about and worked on him but that seems out. I see Red/Jag as equally dumb/Cirie misted so this is one week where you could literally flip a coin, but yeah I don't see Cirie making the same mistake twice re: keeping Jag.

For me, the one difference between Jag staying vs Red is that America still thinks she's good with Jag, so she actually talks game with him. When she does that, he passes it RIGHT back to Cirie and company, which puts her further in danger. She's distancing now because she thinks Jag is leaving, but when he stays, she'll go right back to giving him information that he shouldn't have.

While America will never talk game with Red, so he can't get her in any more trouble than she's currently in.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Mediocre Gatsby said:

I think this is the plan: for Jared to take over Cirie's place as the Fields Family Reality Show Famewhore. He'll put her up, vote her out, and say "Bye, Mom" as she leaves. Then she won't have to worry about him getting a job; he'll be set for life. Going from show to show, spreading misogyny and DNA samples. 

I'm imagining people hundreds of years from now, reading about this in history books as a common practice for parents setting their kids up in the world, like today we read about parents hundreds of years ago sending their kids out to be apprentices in a workshop to learn a trade.

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, Mediocre Gatsby said:

I think this is the plan: for Jared to take over Cirie's place as the Fields Family Reality Show Famewhore. He'll put her up, vote her out, and say "Bye, Mom" as she leaves. Then she won't have to worry about him getting a job; he'll be set for life. Going from show to show, spreading misogyny and DNA samples. 

He's gonna either win the show or get second, get out, be cast on The Challenge and be a complete flop as he gets pulverized by the veterans from both the OG and USA series. But they'll keep him on because he's a massive piece of shit and that's good drama for the show. Maybe he'll show up on a Love Island/F-Boy Island-esque show as well once he gets humiliated by The Challenge Vets. 

[Mediocre Gatsby]

7 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

I'm imagining people hundreds of years from now, reading about this in history books as a common practice for parents setting their kids up in the world, like today we read about parents hundreds of years ago sending their kids out to be apprentices in a workshop to learn a trade.

"Apprentice" is just the word I was thinking of! 

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, HelpMeRondah said:

I just read that her actual name is Miranda Ball, and Bowie Jane is her stage name. 

I have to say - y’all show a HELLUVA lot more interest in this question than I could gen up.

 

41 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

For me, the one difference between Jag staying vs Red is that America still thinks she's good with Jag, so she actually talks game with him. When she does that, he passes it RIGHT back to Cirie and company, which puts her further in danger.

Are there any HGs in the House who don’t pose the same problem for Myanmar?

[Thalia]

20 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I have to say - y’all show a HELLUVA lot more interest in this question than I could gen up.

 

You act all cool and disinterested, but we know you secretly read every available story on Julie's decision to add "Moonves" to her name.  

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Are there any HGs in the House who don’t pose the same problem for Myanmar?

Plenty, because she only talks game with Cory (which, ok, he passes info to Cirie), Jag (she's gotta stop doing that), Blue (who is goddamn terrible) and....she has started talking more game with Izzy. And, surprisingly, Izzy is the one who seems to not spill AS much about what America and her talk about. It's still minimal and Izzy does spill enough, but Izzy, surprisingly, holds back more than the other three.

In other news, Cirie/America are currently having non-game talk outside about her and Cory (without Izzy, Cirie seems fairly relaxed) while Matt/Jared talk about....Cam/America being the first two jurors and what they'd be doing in the jury house.

Yuck. 

Actually, it's even worse than that, they're thinking of what CORY would be thinking with America/Cam in the jury house alone. Because women aren't people and just bitches who fuck with men and toy with their manly emotions, amiright?

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Thalia said:

You act all cool and disinterested, but we know you secretly read every available story on Julie's decision to add "Moonves" to her name.  

Not really; Julie could change her name to Aloysius Kumquat Beelzebub for all I care - she’ll always be Chenbot to me.

[pennben]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

On 9/4/2023 at 4:22 PM, pennben said:

No reason to jump too soon.

Whatever you say, Helen.  😆

Exceptionally well-played here!!!😀 Salute!

[pennben]

1 hour ago, Mediocre Gatsby said:

"Apprentice" is just the word I was thinking of! 

The “Apprentice” is gonna open a whole big different can of worms in reality tv & other history books going forward, but I digress….

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

And, surprisingly, Izzy is the one who seems to not spill AS much about what America and her talk about.

For all her paranoia and sensitivity (but not emotions! She HATES it when you call her emotional!) Izzy does at least appear to be playing her own side game. She building relationships with those on the outs, or-semi outs like Cory, for the stated purpose of gathering intel and keeping enemies close. She dutifully reports back to Cirie about every conversation, so she can’t be accused of disloyalty. But she doesn’t report everything that is said. In a way, she’s playing much the same game as Felicia, but smarter.

3 hours ago, Mediocre Gatsby said:

I think this is the plan: for Jared to take over Cirie's place as the Fields Family Reality Show Famewhore.

My guess on how this whole train wreck of a season began: either Cirie approached CBS to get Baby Idiot placed on a show and they responded with “how about BB… but only if you come on, too!”, or BB first approached Cirie to join the season and she said “I’ll do it, but only if you also cast my dimwit child.” (I would lean toward scenario #1)  

I don’t know what else Jared has going on at home, but my guess is not much. I can definitely see him wheedling her to help him get on a show, and with the success she’s had, I can see her encouraging it. So as you say, I think Jared is the entire reason behind Cirie being here, and she used her clout + vacation time to make it happen. 

[choclatechip45]

27 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

For all her paranoia and sensitivity (but not emotions! She HATES it when you call her emotional!) Izzy does at least appear to be playing her own side game. She building relationships with those on the outs, or-semi outs like Cory, for the stated purpose of gathering intel and keeping enemies close. She dutifully reports back to Cirie about every conversation, so she can’t be accused of disloyalty. But she doesn’t report everything that is said. In a way, she’s playing much the same game as Felicia, but smarter.

My guess on how this whole train wreck of a season began: either Cirie approached CBS to get Baby Idiot placed on a show and they responded with “how about BB… but only if you come on, too!”, or BB first approached Cirie to join the season and she said “I’ll do it, but only if you also cast my dimwit child.” (I would lean toward scenario #1)  

I don’t know what else Jared has going on at home, but my guess is not much. I can definitely see him wheedling her to help him get on a show, and with the success she’s had, I can see her encouraging it. So as you say, I think Jared is the entire reason behind Cirie being here, and she used her clout + vacation time to make it happen. 

Cirie mentioned she wanted to do Big Brother in her press for Traitor. I figured that is how this all started.

[peachmangosteen]

I see Cirie is yet again planning to blame the vote flip on Cory/America. Get a new hobby, Cirie!

[blixie]

Quote

And, surprisingly, Izzy 

One thing I've noticed this week, and I'm not gonna get crazy with this observation, but she hasn't been velcro'd to Cirie this week like she has been. She is talking in a reasonably relaxed manner with America and Cory and even Jared, typically she never lets Cirie out of her sight for more than 10 minutes at a time. I think Izzy is at least thinking about who she wants in the house when at F7 or F5 and so she's trying to make whatever moves she thinks Cirie and herself have agreed upon, but w/o Cirie's express approval. It's just an interesting development. Just a tiny sliver of self interest appears to be popping through.

[blixie]

Quote

I see Cirie is yet again planning to blame the vote flip on Cory/America.

OTOH if it works work it. OTHO this is pre jury there is no need to be blaming people you seem to want to continue with as your allies. I continue to not be impressed by her strategic choices but also it doesn't seem to matter given her social game makes that not matter, at least so far, and it keeps things entertaining. I am also confused why a pre-jury vote needs to be blamed on anyone, especially when she's cognizant of not wanting to ruffle feathers, if she's even remotely worried about A/C taking a shot maybe don't throw them UTB every single vote.

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

Re: Cirie's type of game play, I always had a soft spot for Cirie because I thought she got screwed by Survivor two times.

And now it's our turn to get screwed by Cirie.

I'm not even watching the show anymore. I had it on series record but I already knew who won HoH and who was nominated and who won Veto so I didn't see any point and had no interest in watching Cirie and Jared crow about how everything is working out for them.

Even if you're a huge Cirie fan, there doesn't seem to be any point in the actual game. If they wanted to give Cirie her own show they should have just given her a Bravo Housewives type show. Just her and a bunch of her friends sitting around talking and bitching. And then at the end they hand her a giant check. Because that's basically what this season of Big Brother is. They didn't have to ruin Big Brother to give Cirie fans their own show.

[Nashville]

Ok, I think I’ve been fairly transparent this season about not having any favorites to date; that being said, the closest I’ve yet come have been Cory and/or East Timor - which surprises the hell outta ME, let me tell you - but as of late I find myself wondering: wtf is ET’s problem with Cody?

Seems to me Dominican Republic is pretty much constantly flipping between running hot or cold on Cory; do it any more frequently, and we’ll have to start calling her Maytag.  DR’s latest source of irritation appears to be Cody not letting her know about a meeting in the HOHR until after the meeting was over.  My basic impression has been that DR was originally all-in on Handful, but once that alliance broke down she hasn’t done much of anything about advancing to an alternate alliance; she talks varying degrees of game with both Cory and Jag, but hasn’t established any firm arrangements approaching an F2 level of commitment with either.

So, is Monrovia making significant game moves and I’m just missing them - or is she simply spending her days in the BY hammock grousing about the other HGs, and expecting Cory and/or Jag to play her game for her?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And now it's our turn to get screwed by Cirie.

I'm not even watching the show anymore. I had it on series record but I already knew who won HoH and who was nominated and who won Veto so I didn't see any point and had no interest in watching Cirie and Jared crow about how everything is working out for them.

Even if you're a huge Cirie fan, there doesn't seem to be any point in the actual game. If they wanted to give Cirie her own show they should have just given her a Bravo Housewives type show. Just her and a bunch of her friends sitting around talking and bitching. And then at the end they hand her a giant check. Because that's basically what this season of Big Brother is. They didn't have to ruin Big Brother to give Cirie fans their own show.

I know exactly how you feel, @iMonrey; I’ve personally been teetering on the razor’s edge myself about pulling The Cirie Show - excuse me, BB - from my DVR’s record rotation.  Pretty much the only reason I haven’t yet pulled that trigger is so I can keep the Summary thread updated, but overall…?  Yeah - this season is so twisted up with Production gimmicks to guarantee Cirie the winner’s check, it barely resembles BB.

Maybe if I just pare it down to Thursdays….

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Ok, I think I’ve been fairly transparent this season about not having any favorites to date; that being said, the closest I’ve yet come have been Cory and/or East Timor - which surprises the hell outta ME, let me tell you - but as of late I find myself wondering: wtf is ET’s problem with Cody?

Seems to me Dominican Republic is pretty much constantly flipping between running hot or cold on Cory; do it any more frequently, and we’ll have to start calling her Maytag.  DR’s latest source of irritation appears to be Cody not letting her know about a meeting in the HOHR until after the meeting was over.  My basic impression has been that DR was originally all-in on Handful, but once that alliance broke down she hasn’t done much of anything about advancing to an alternate alliance; she talks varying degrees of game with both Cory and Jag, but hasn’t established any firm arrangements approaching an F2 level of commitment with either.

So, is Monrovia making significant game moves and I’m just missing them - or is she simply spending her days in the BY hammock grousing about the other HGs, and expecting Cory and/or Jag to play her game for her?  Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not blaming America fully on this. It's not like Cory's been that great to her, either. He keeps tattling on her with Cirie/Izzy/Jared. He keeps telling them stuff that America has said to him privately. He has been trashing her as gameplay, but has almost nearly backfired multiple times.

America may be messing up her own game by not gaming as much with others and spilling too much, but Cory's screwed up her game by his trashing. When he trashes her as much as he has to the power alliance, it's no surprise they may be wary of her. He also feeds her intel, which is fine, but he has NOT brought her into these talks at all. 

The biggest issue is that Cory is shaping the perception of America with the core alliance, so that's made America look worse. Again, totally get that America's gameplay has been sloppy and it's up to her to change those perceptions. However, she has been doing that; she's made excellent headway with Cirie AND Izzy to the point where she's not a target for them anymore, at least not any time soon. She's actually put herself in a better spot without Cory around. 

But also, gonna also say that the men in this house are complete and utter trash. Matt/Jared still think America's gonna go fuck Cameron in the jury house, Jag doesn't trust the one person who was completely honest with him about last week's vote and keeps tattling on her, Red also trashes her, and Cory keeps throwing her under the bus for no reason. America's not a perfect player, but she's likeable and could be better if the men didn't hate her guts or throw her under the bus every single day.

Also, it's REALLY nice to have the rare female superfan who's decent. How many female superfans have we really had on this show? Because all the examples I can think of are men.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, blixie said:

One thing I've noticed this week, and I'm not gonna get crazy with this observation, but she hasn't been velcro'd to Cirie this week like she has been. She is talking in a reasonably relaxed manner with America and Cory and even Jared, typically she never lets Cirie out of her sight for more than 10 minutes at a time. I think Izzy is at least thinking about who she wants in the house when at F7 or F5 and so she's trying to make whatever moves she thinks Cirie and herself have agreed upon, but w/o Cirie's express approval. It's just an interesting development. Just a tiny sliver of self interest appears to be popping through.

I actually hate to say it, but Izzy is such an interesting player, I really do enjoy her. She's been a delight to watch, even with her constantly up Cirie's ass. If Cirie wasn't in the game, I wonder how Izzy would be as a player. I think she benefits greatly from Cirie, for sure, but she's fun to watch. 

I do think she'd do poorly if Cirie wasn't in the game. She's lose her mind and probably be pre-jury. She's lucky she got to cling to Cirie and have that safety net to build up her game.

And I think we'll see why once she's on the block and inevitably melts down.

[blixie]

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But also, gonna also say that the men in this house are complete and utter trash.

Right I don't know that there is any universe in which a pretty girl aka slut aka bitch is going to get the jury votes of Matt/Red/Cam or Jared, and we know at least three will be on jury. How good at the game America actually is is irrelevant with the men like this in the house.

 

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I do think she'd do poorly if Cirie wasn't in the game.

I think she would have done better if only because she could then play a purely self interested game and working with someone like Cory would keep her that way, we'd have another good Lesbian-Nerd F2 kind of thing. But yes she is still pretty erratic as a player and could have imploded without someone as calming and dominating as Cirie.

[LeDucDiableBleu]

58 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

America may be messing up her own game by not gaming as much with others and spilling too much, but Cory's screwed up her game by his trashing. When he trashes her as much as he has to the power alliance, it's no surprise they may be wary of her. He also feeds her intel, which is fine, but he has NOT brought her into these talks at all. 

 

That's my biggest issue with Cory. I see it as him isolating her. He's trying to control the narrative of the house to America, and control the rest of the house's perception of her. He doesn't want to be seen as a pair with her but also reaps the benefits of being paired with her.

[Lady Calypso]

55 minutes ago, blixie said:

Right I don't know that there is any universe in which a pretty girl aka slut aka bitch is going to get the jury votes of Matt/Red/Cam or Jared, and we know at least three will be on jury. How good at the game America actually is is irrelevant with the men like this in the house.

Yeah, which is why I actually think I'm now fine with Red going. Jag fucks up her game, but at least he might vote for her IF she should make F2. Red would never vote for her in a million years.

And I think that's what is important to note; some people have to play this game differently than others because of biases and prejudice and with hurdles and obstacles quite often out of their control.

Someone like America this season is being shoved into the Bitch/Slut box by most of the men, which means she has such a low shot at winning this game, even if she gets there. She has to jump through hurdles non-game related. Instead of being allowed to focus on the game, EVEN if she played a perfect game, she had the added difficulty by navigating misogyny by almost all the men. Either they think she's a bitch, think she's a slut, think she's hurting Cory, or they want to sexually harass her. 

The only two decent guys still in the house are Jag and Cory, and both of them are treating her poorly, game-wise (not personally).

And yes, this does tend to happen to varying degrees each year, but it's something to note. Some, like Jared, have it really easy while others, like America, have so much more to overcome already. 

Even some of the women fall into the misogynistic mindset where America's lying about the harassment from Cameron or think she's sleeping around or whatever. 

I think that's what so satisfying about Taylor's win last season. She also had to overcome ALL of the same levels of hate, if not more layers of hate, and she did. That's why her win works for so many people, because she was a true underdog who, even if she played a better game, still had to overcome way more than game stuff. That adds an extra layer of difficulty with each issue. 

[HighQueenEB]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

So, is Monrovia making significant game moves and I’m just missing them - 

Have we progressed from countries to national capitals in our nicknames for America?  Kinda sad to not have seen at least one Seychelles, Burkina Faso, or North Macedonia use yet, lol.  

[Katesus7]

Izzy is definitely the one I have conflicting feelings about.  Some days I just want to shake her, some days I think - Oh, she's really playing this well, and isn't SO bad.  It pretty much depends on who she's talking to at any given moment.  

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, HighQueenEB said:

Have we progressed from countries to national capitals in our nicknames for America?  Kinda sad to not have seen at least one Seychelles, Burkina Faso, or North Macedonia use yet, lol.  

Just trying to keep it lively, donchaknow. 😉

(Plus, I was getting bored with simple country names - I mean really, after East Timor where is there to go? - so I wanted to see how long it took for someone to notice.  Thank you VERY much for the gratifyingly swift response. 😄 )

[Mediocre Gatsby]

2 hours ago, HighQueenEB said:

Have we progressed from countries to national capitals in our nicknames for America?  Kinda sad to not have seen at least one Seychelles, Burkina Faso, or North Macedonia use yet, lol.  

I took Monrovia as a shoutout to the California city. 

[Nashville]

17 minutes ago, Mediocre Gatsby said:

I took Monrovia as a shoutout to the California city. 

It’s also the capital of Liberia. 😉

But you’re right, @HighQueenEB - there’s still a wealth of country names to explore and exploit.  😄

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm not blaming America fully on this. It's not like Cory's been that great to her, either. He keeps tattling on her with Cirie/Izzy/Jared. He keeps telling them stuff that America has said to him privately. He has been trashing her as gameplay, but has almost nearly backfired multiple times.

Total agreement; I’m not trying in any way to lay all of any blame at Sri Lanka’s doorstep - but I do wonder at times if part of the reason for Cory’s frequent double-dealing is her recalcitrance at entering into anything resembling a substantial mutual support pact.  A committed Cory/Albania F2 agreement might go a long way towards cementing Cory’s support and protection, for example - including protecting her confidences.

…then again, it might not.

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Total agreement; I’m not trying in any way to lay all of any blame at Sri Lanka’s doorstep - but I do wonder at times if part of the reason for Cory’s frequent double-dealing is her recalcitrance at entering into anything resembling a substantial mutual support pact.  A committed Cory/Albania F2 agreement might go a long way towards cementing Cory’s support and protection, for example - including protecting her confidences.

…then again, it might not.

I mean, they've already made a F2 agreement, which is funny. They did it a couple of weeks ago, if I remember correctly?

I do think it's a mutual not listening to each other thing, though. America doesn't heed Cory's advice on withholding information, for example, so I get his frustrations.

At the same time, does he not realize that, regardless of what he does, him and America will be put up together at some point? This whole "we're not together, but we kind of are" isn't working. The more he puts distance between them, the more America is gonna feel excluded. 

But, like I said, she's been putting in some good work this week with Cirie and Izzy, which has helped her more than Cory at times. I know America being a potential Cirie minion is a no-go but in order for her survival for a couple of weeks, she really DOES need to be. Once jury starts, though, I hope she goes all out on Cirie's side (preferably starting with Jared).