S10.E18: The Reunion, Part III

[lili45]

17 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

 

She’s not a whore.  She’s not even a cheater, she’s just a bad friend.

 

Except that we know that’s not true.  How many people are bullied to death?  Many, many people. Usually teenagers or young people who already struggle with anxiety and low self esteem. People die because of this.

 

Listen, I do not use such verbiage personally. And I don’t care for it myself. I stated that it was immature. 

But I don’t understand the pearl clutching either over the language used in an hour at a reunion of the cast of Vanderpump Rules. These are not angels. Ariana naturally had expectations of her friends.

Truly, people have “killed themselves” over many things including betrayals. Ariana was very depressed which T & R both knew so their actions were more likely to cause a depressed individual to have suicide ideations, and the truth is neither T nor R cared about A one bit, and I think this was her moment to retaliate for an hour after finding out about nearly a year of continuous lies and betrayals.

TV captures spoken words of an hour for eternity. In this case that we are discussing, Words at 1 day’s reunion concerning 7 months (210 days) behavior  is not bullying to death. 

Truth be told, Vanderpump Rules was always a show about skanky people doing skanky things, which is why I had stopped watching for several years until last year. So I’m not going to clutch my pearls over words used, even though I do not use them myself. So we can just agree disagree on what’s worse and call it a day.

I respectfully disagree with you. Words have definitions and specific meanings. Definition of a whore is a sexually promiscuous person. Many people on V R have been promiscuous, including R.
Again, I did not use this word. But I’m not clutching my pearls acting shocked hearing it used on on a reality tv show which is designed to create drama, that’s all.
This isn’t The Brady Bunch. 

Let’s call it a day, I have more sympathy for A, it’s ok to have varying opinions. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by lili45

[Drogo]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqY1q7fjsB4/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
 

Those confessionals really don’t age well. 

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Ariana viewed a video of her close friend, whom she treated as a younger sister, who she steadfastly insisted would never betray her, masturbating with her common law husband of nine years, who she also maintained would never betray her. 

The betrayal on its own would traumatize anyone, but Ariana found out in such a sickening way too. I can't imagine.

That's why I cut her slack for not keeping it no more than "You really hurt me. I don't forgive you." What happened to her was beyond. 

[Jst2Wld]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:09 PM, RoseAllDay said:

Lisa, I say this with much love — Butt. Out. Everybody’s reactions are valid right now.

Hell yes! Lisa still thinks she's  their mommy. Maybe that worked out when these cast members were in their 20's and all acting like Vanderpump Fools. But they are all very much grown up adults. Married. Married with children. Homeowners. 

Lisa definitely needs to STFU. 

[ivygirl]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:11 AM, lili45 said:

As several others have already eloquently highlighted, she’s calm now. She needed time to calm down, and this was all very very fresh. They pulled various stunt moves, coordinating their continuous lies, deceipt and sexual antics, IN HER HOUSE, when she was suffering from losing her Grandmother and dog!

 Ariana deserves that we cut her a break, with the empathy reserved for her instead of the wolf in sheeps clothing. 

The lies, the transgressions all got to her. I give her a break, and cut her some slack. She is human after all. 
 

 

Believe me, I’ve watched this from the beginning and am very familiar with what went down. I’ve been angry and disgusted on Ariana’s behalf for weeks now. Her anger, cutting remarks, and sharp responses are totally justified. I draw the line at “nothing” though. 

And that has zero to do with me being empathetic toward Rachel. I don’t like anyone calling anyone “nothing” as it’s dehumanizing. 

[ivygirl]

10 hours ago, Chalby said:

I have one last observation re Ariana. Apparently some of the viewing public has turned away from her (I'm not sure I buy that) because of how she spoke to Sandoval and Rachel.

Why on earth does Ariana have to censor her anger? At the time of the taping, she's into week 3 of the insidious betrayal. Plus people have been stepping forth, sharing what they saw him do, making her dread each new revelation, and feeling worse.. AND she's forced to continue having him in the house, while he comes and goes, dates Rachel (or others) while getting Rachel's mail. It's not like she even had 3 weeks to work through her emotions because he's there!

I believe Sandoval had no intention of ever leaving Ariana, and I think he's waiting for her friends and media to go away, and then he'll go back to talking, reminiscing great memories nonstop, while declaring they're meant to be together, thus programming Ariana that she's got the affair all wrong. He cried to Lisa and to Andy that all he wants is to sit down with her, one on one, to talk... Ya right ...

He'll claim Rachel's making up stuff now because she wants revenge after he told her he only loves Ariana. Ariana, who loved Tom and trusted him completely, might be tempted to listen because they once had a solid, mutually respectful and beneficial relationship. I hope her friends stay close.

I have known many Toms over the years. I could write a book on what they'll do, step by step. And how women will get sucked in.

 

Well… see, that goes totally beyond to me. I may not like some of how she SAID things, and I may feel that reflected poorly on her—but good grief, that wouldn’t make me side with Sandoval or Rachel! 

[KungFuBunny]

Hypocritical: Behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

Andy: This is a group of cheaters, no one in this group has clean hands. So, I mean look, you’re all prepared to come after Sandoval and Raquel. How is that not hypocritical?

Andy misused hypocritical in a sentence and inferred a different meaning. Andy basically was saying if you’ve been a cheater, you can’t call out another cheater. Raquel and Tom jumped onto Andy’s misuse of the word.

I can be a bitch, that does not preclude me from calling someone else a bitch. This does not make me a hypocrite.

Let’s say I stole a candy bar from a pharmacy. It would not be hypocritical of me to say I think what Bernie Madoff did to all those people was terrible and to discuss this with other people even though I committed theft myself. It isn’t even about comparing which theft was worse.

Correct usage: It would be hypocritical for a married reverend to preach about the sanctity of marriage while having multiple mistresses.

I wish someone called Andy out on his misuse and misinterpretation of the word hypocritical.

My point is, Lala has every right to say that what Sandoval & Raquel did was horrible, she is not precluded because she has cheated herself. After the T-shirt comment, James had every right to say that was a dick move to Tom, even though he has said some pretty nasty shit about women himself.

Edited June 11, 2023 by KungFuBunny

[realityplease]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:08 AM, Chalby said:

Why on earth does Ariana have to censor her anger? At the time of the taping, she's into week 3 of the insidious betrayal. . . AND she's forced to continue having him in the house, while he comes and goes, dates Rachel (or others) while getting Rachel's mail.

On 6/11/2023 at 4:44 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Exactly. . .Only three weeks earlier, Ariana viewed a video of her close friend, whom she treated as a younger sister, who she steadfastly insisted would never betray her, masturbating with her common law husband of nine years, who she also maintained would never betray her.

Ariana doesn't HAVE to censor her anger.  She can react however she wants within the law.  But SHOULD she have censored herself?  Probably, if she wants to continue her "I'm going to monetize this & want the public to support & sympathize with me."  Frankly, I think it's dumb that a corp. thinks I'll buy their product due to sympathy & absent a connection to the product - but if Ariana wants to make bank - then yes, she needs to think about her image & restraint.  LOTS of production, PR folks, & others contacted & put contracts before her.  She was well advised before the reunion. 

She's used HER mental state to excuse her conduct but didn't consider OTHERS mental states in lashing out. Not excusable just because they acted without considering her.  Rise above, and all. The world's fickle - people like heroes & stalwart - not the bitter.  So sure, lash out, but know there's a price to pay.  No question Tom & Raquel should have done things differently & more humanely.  People do dumb, hurtful things & satisfy their own desires while ignoring others.  So yes, express anger. (I hate you, I'm hurt, I'm angry you did so & so.) But say things to mentally destabilize another (you're nothing, you have no friends, you. . you. . .you.) Too far.  Because someone hurt you doesn't mean self-control is no longer required.

No guarantees she & Tom would last & no common law marriage in California.  Ariana & Tom were both unmarried & legally single though cohabitating.  Maybe they had certain contractual rights, for example, a jointly bought home. Perhaps, understandably, she didn't want to leave it - but no one forced her to stay & they worked it out. Unless she bought him out, once sold, she'd have to leave it anyway.  People break up all the time. People cheat. Do crappy things.  Sure, we can sympathize, but how one responds reflects each person's grit & substance.  Do what you want to/for yourself, but lash out at someone else & it will be judged.  And if she continues to push products willy-nilly without any purpose but greed, they will tire of her.  Human nature.

Edited June 14, 2023 by realityplease

[lilmarysunshine]

41 minutes ago, realityplease said:

And if she continues to push products wily-nily without any purpose but greed, they will tire of her.  Human nature.

A fool and his money … I cannot imagine buying something that Ariana has endorsed or produced to be part of a stupid, scandalous fad. Disclaimer: I have never particularly cared for her. I don’t think ANY person on this show is particularly decent and I would never hang with any of them so she does not stand out amongst the rest, good or bad, in that regard.

Perhaps this is why she has more money than me but I have too much pride to capitalize on my own humiliation because my SO cheated on me with my friend.* In terms of friends, please. Particularly for the relative newbie Raquel - were they bffs for all of 4 months? I don’t think most of these people on the show have real, genuine friendships. 

[lili45]

1 hour ago, ivygirl said:

Believe me, I’ve watched this from the beginning and am very familiar with what went down. I’ve been angry and disgusted on Ariana’s behalf for weeks now. Her anger, cutting remarks, and sharp responses are totally justified. I draw the line at “nothing” though. 

And that has zero to do with me being empathetic toward Rachel. I don’t like anyone calling anyone “nothing” as it’s dehumanizing. 

And that’s fair! I do not support everything about Ariana! For starters she picked Sandoval! I watch this “reality drama”  as drama. What R did was dehumanizing as well. No one is perfect. 

[Gharlane]

13 hours ago, Chalby said:

Why on earth does Ariana have to censor her anger? At the time of the taping, she's into week 3 of the insidious betrayal. Plus people have been stepping forth, sharing what they saw him do, making her dread each new revelation, and feeling worse.. AND she's forced to continue having him in the house, while he comes and goes, dates Rachel (or others) while getting Rachel's mail. It's not like she even had 3 weeks to work through her emotions because he's there!

I don't blame Ariana for being righteously angry, but it got to a point where it became redundant and looked like she was kicking a puppy.

[Chatty Cake]

5 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

I don't blame Ariana for being righteously angry, but it got to a point where it became redundant and looked like she was kicking a puppy.

Well Rachel didn’t have to sit and take it. She could have reminded Ariana that her time with Tom began with her in the whore role. I think Rachel wanted to act remorseful because she knows she is hated because of the fling. Sandoval is not nearly as hated. He’s performing and doing okay. People are usually quicker to forgive the man.

[KungFuBunny]

Next season on Vanderpump Rules

Schwartz puts in 80 hour weeks at Schwartz and Sandy’s in efforts to save the business. His partner, Tom is off somewhere braying like a farm animal in heat on a stage. Every night, as he leaves work, he does the only thing he knows how to do to relieve stress.

 

Tom tells Raquel he’s met the most beautiful, sexy woman he’s ever laid his eyes on, and he’s in love. Tom asks Raquel if he can bring her home for a threesome.

 

Raquel agrees. Behind the bland pageant stare, Raquel finesses her plans to go Total Scorched Earth on Tom’s ass. Off screen, Oda Mae Brown whispers “Booooy, you in danger!”

 

It will be an incredible year for DJ Muppet Baby as he has landed regular gigs at a casino in Downtown Vegas.  He is fine tuning his techno remixes. He spends endless hours practicing hitting the PLAY button on his complicated stereo equipment. Wicky.. wicky.. wicky

 

[RoseAllDay]

Watching this again. The deflection onto Lala is such a classic example of  misdirection, which blew up in Sandoval’s smarmy face big time. You, sir, are the topic of discussion here. Not Lala, not Rand. Also, nothing that happened within the group before this (the “open relationship” excuse), matters either. Tom and Rachel have to answer for screwing around behind the back of a longtime partner and a best friend. That’s it.

Regardless of what the truth is about her relationship with Rand, Lala’s point when talking to Rachel outside the restaurant was that it is almost always the woman who has to bear the brunt of the shit for how it started. She’s right. 

The density (or willful ignorance) of both Rachel and Tom to keep failing to see the extent and depth of the betrayal here also tells me that both are narcissistic sociopaths only concerned with their own immediate gratification.

Sandoval wanted people to feel sorry for him? GTFO.

Horrible people.

56 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Next season on Vanderpump Rules

Schwartz puts in 80 hour weeks at Schwartz and Sandy’s in efforts to save the business. His partner, Tom is off somewhere braying like a farm animal in heat on a stage. Every night, as he leaves work, he does the only thing he knows how to do to relieve stress.

 

Tom tells Raquel he’s met the most beautiful, sexy woman he’s ever laid his eyes on, and he’s in love. Tom asks Raquel if he can bring her home for a threesome.

 

Raquel agrees. Behind the bland pageant stare, Raquel finesses her plans to go Total Scorched Earth on Tom’s ass. Off screen, Oda Mae Brown whispers “Booooy, you in danger!”

 

It will be an incredible year for DJ Muppet Baby as he has landed regular gigs at a casino in Downtown Vegas.  He is fine tuning his techno remixes. He spends endless hours practicing hitting the PLAY button on his complicated stereo equipment. Wicky.. wicky.. wicky

 

Schwartz working 80 hours a week at the local 7-11 because he can’t run a business. 

EDIT — Sandoval and Rachel crying backstage about how many people they hurt, and then pivoting to how they just should have lied and laughing at how James sees Alli as an improvement. Whatever attempts they made at being sincerely sorry out on stage was trashed in those few minutes of footage. But I liked how she cleaned his face then wiped her fingers on his jacket. 😂

Edited June 11, 2023 by RoseAllDay

[RoseAllDay]

I thought there were pictures of Sandoval and Rachel in St. Louis over Christmas? I thought the family was not welcoming to her?

Well, the one-on-one with Rachel answered my question. Another lie. Why are we wasting time on this person?

Edited June 11, 2023 by RoseAllDay

[hoodooznoodooz]

Someone on reddit believes that the reason Rachel started sobbing in the car driving to Havasu was because she knew Sandoval would be holding and comforting Ariana about Charlotte.

Edited June 12, 2023 by hoodooznoodooz

[hoodooznoodooz]

Patrons are still leaving terrible reviews for Schwartz & Sandy’s. It looks like Schwartz is trying to be very accessible for photos and Aw-shucks-ing.

Edited June 12, 2023 by hoodooznoodooz

[Drogo]

9 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Hypocritical: Behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

Andy: This is a group of cheaters, no one in this group has clean hands. So, I mean look, you’re all prepared to come after Sandoval and Raquel. How is that not hypocritical?

Andy misused hypocritical in a sentence and inferred a different meaning. Andy basically was saying if you’ve been a cheater, you can’t call out another cheater. Raquel and Tom jumped onto Andy’s misuse of the word.

Ehh.  If a bunch of cheaters are ready to villainize two people for cheating because their time already came and went with no real repercussions, that’s hypocritical.  Even if there were repercussions.  If Jodi Arias wants to weigh in on the Idaho murder trial, nobody’s going to want to hear her mouth- because she’s a murderer.

There was a lot of height and might on that stage considering they’re all walking Petri dishes. 

Hypocrites: they don’t practice what they preach.  

Edited June 12, 2023 by Drogo

[princelina]

20 hours ago, Chalby said:

But I understood that Lala's and James slept together prior to her and Randell becoming a couple. When she was dating Randall, she wasn't sleeping with James, and she stepped away from the friendship after he was calling him fat, toady.

James may have cheated, but Lala was single, and I won't label single people as cheaters just because they didn't ask enough questions before bedding someone.

At the beginning of this season "Lala" informed Raquel that she had slept with James when they (James and Raquel) and "Lala" and Rand were all in the beginning stages of their relationships.  There was even a very special episode where Raquel confronted James about it.

20 hours ago, Chalby said:

I will say I've always hated the C++t word because it used to be launched as a gender specific insult/ attack. But after watching Graham Norton, the word is very popular in Britain, always has been, and my kids and their friends don't see it as a pearl clutcher as I do. Therefore, it's my problem. The fact it even gets said on TV surprises me.

It's basically used to call someone else an asshole! 😄

7 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Well Rachel didn’t have to sit and take it. She could have reminded Ariana that her time with Tom began with her in the whore role. I think Rachel wanted to act remorseful because she knows she is hated because of the fling. Sandoval is not nearly as hated. He’s performing and doing okay. People are usually quicker to forgive the man.

She actually did the only thing she could do - apologize without excuse and let the cards fall where they may.  What else could she have said?  Her only other choice would have been to not appear on the show 🤷‍♀️

[Drogo]

15 minutes ago, princelina said:

At the beginning of this season "Lala" informed Raquel that she had slept with James when they (James and Raquel) and "Lala" and Rand were all in the beginning stages of their relationships.  There was even a very special episode where Raquel confronted James about it.

*Not to be confused with the very special episode of Boy Meets World where Shawn joined a cult. 

[ivygirl]

9 hours ago, lili45 said:

And that’s fair! I do not support everything about Ariana! For starters she picked Sandoval! I watch this “reality drama”  as drama. What R did was dehumanizing as well. No one is perfect. 

I never said it wasn’t… Both she and Sandoval were despicable in their actions. 

[ZettaK]

7 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

Watching this again. The deflection onto Lala is such a classic example of  misdirection, which blew up in Sandoval’s smarmy face big time. You, sir, are the topic of discussion here. Not Lala, not Rand. Also, nothing that happened within the group before this (the “open relationship” excuse), matters either. Tom and Rachel have to answer for screwing around behind the back of a longtime partner and a best friend. That’s it.

Regardless of what the truth is about her relationship with Rand, Lala’s point when talking to Rachel outside the restaurant was that it is almost always the woman who has to bear the brunt of the shit for how it started. She’s right. 

The density (or willful ignorance) of both Rachel and Tom to keep failing to see the extent and depth of the betrayal here also tells me that both are narcissistic sociopaths only concerned with their own immediate gratification.

Sandoval wanted people to feel sorry for him? GTFO.

Horrible people.

Schwartz working 80 hours a week at the local 7-11 because he can’t run a business. 

EDIT — Sandoval and Rachel crying backstage about how many people they hurt, and then pivoting to how they just should have lied and laughing at how James sees Alli as an improvement. Whatever attempts they made at being sincerely sorry out on stage was trashed in those few minutes of footage. But I liked how she cleaned his face then wiped her fingers on his jacket. 😂

But Lala and Rand were discussed at the reunion. Lala cheated with Rand for years. I agree though that women face the consequences (of cheating in this case) more than guys.

Edited June 12, 2023 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

14 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

The betrayal on its own would traumatize anyone, but Ariana found out in such a sickening way too. I can't imagine.

That's why I cut her slack for not keeping it no more than "You really hurt me. I don't forgive you." What happened to her was beyond. 

A high percentage of people cheat in relationships and marriage. What happened to Ariana is not beyond. And people always find they were cheated on in sickening ways. It's never "pretty". It's from caught in the act, from phone messages, photos, videos, the cheater telling them, others telling them, etc. Affairs are normally long term, as well. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by ZettaK

[heatherchandler]

11 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Hypocritical: Behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

Not really anything to do with standards, a hypocrite is a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings. Andy is right, Lala and James denouncing cheating makes them hypocrites.  That’s why Ariana is a hypocrite too. 
 

 

22 hours ago, Chalby said:

If that were truly the case, people everywhere wouldn't have been outraged. Ariana was the story because she's always been seen as the loyal, supportive, intelligent girlfriend. She's often referred to as boring because she's relatively normal. The amount of support she received is because she's that nice gal, who won't participate in nasty bullying just because she believes in treating people the way she wants to be treated.

I rewatched the reunion after Ariana and Tom got together and she taunted Kristen, who was already in tears and very emotional, and told her that she had borderline personality disorder (like she’s a doctor, not a bartender).  She had many scenes where she told people how she’s smarter than everyone and of course the famous smug “I’m prettier than you and smarter than you…” scene.  She wasn’t always “nice” and I don’t know that people always liked her.  
She got support when everything happened but then she went nasty and turned a lot of people off. 
 

 

16 hours ago, lili45 said:

 

TV captures spoken words of an hour for eternity. In this case that we are discussing, Words at 1 day’s reunion concerning 7 months (210 days) behavior  is not bullying to death. 

 

I respectfully disagree with you. Words have definitions and specific meanings. Definition of a whore is a sexually promiscuous person. Many people on V R have been promiscuous, including R.
Again, I did not use this word. But I’m not clutching my pearls acting shocked hearing it used on on a reality tv show which is designed to create drama, that’s all.
This isn’t The Brady Bunch. 

Let’s call it a day, I have more sympathy for A, it’s ok to have varying opinions. 

The woman is in a mental health facility, so I’d argue that it may actually be life or death. 

A whore is someone who takes money for sex.  She’s not a whore.  And she’s not promiscuous, sleeping with everyone, she’s not even really a cheater- she wasn’t in a relationship. What she did is wrong but technically she’s not what she’s been called.

I don’t clutch my pearls when I hear the word c***, but like I said don’t call yourself a feminist and then use it as an insult. And don’t call yourself a mental health advocate and then use words like “you are nothing” to dehumanize and crush someone.  That’s hypocritical.  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by heatherchandler

[Jel]

In the law, we recognize degrees of severity of crime. The consequences for a candy bar theft are less than the consequences of stealing someone’s life savings. They are both stealing, so both are criminal and immoral, but one situation is clearly worse. To frame it another way: I have never heard someone make the argument that what Bernie madoff did to his victims is the same as having someone steal your lunch from the office fridge. Why not? It’s all stealing, right? Yes, it is, but one case is bad and the other is much worse. You don’t say to the Madoff victim, “Yes it’s bad that you lost your life savings, but you did steal Bernie’s lunch from the staff room fridge nine years ago, so it’s hypocritical of you to complain about this theft. You also stole, and stealing is stealing. And, you should keep your emotions in check, and you don’t really have a right to feel devastated by this because you stole too.”

And I think that we generally understand that when the Madoff victims go off on him, that they are speaking out of extreme hurt and feelings of betrayal? No one changes their opinion of the situation based on words the victims uttered after the fact.

Cheating wise, what Tom and Rachel did was Bernie Madoff level stealing and betrayal. In cheating situations, it doesn’t get much worse than having your life partner cheat with a close friend, especially when you took in, championed and defended that friend. The second part makes it so much worse than cheating with a stranger. 
 

[Chalby]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:44 AM, JenE4 said:

I’m curious why Rachel didn’t tell Tom that she exposed the truth and instead let him go out there and continue to maintain the lies.

I feel like suddenly a lot of people—even LaLa!!—are setting Rachel up to be forgiven and allowed back in the fold as long as she skewers Tom. But if we’re crucifying him for hurting and lying to someone he loves, then she at least deserves a bit of a side eye for betraying his trust…in deceiving everyone else…? 

I was wondering as well, but after hearing her lie straight faced, I also wouldn't be surprised if Tom knew she was doing this. They both have zero scruples when it comes to staying on tv.

I can even hear him telling her, if she claims she wanted to tell the truth, but he told her to lie, the producers will invite her back so Tom can confront her on what she said.

They're both so inauthentic, I cannot read or believe, either of them 

[Chalby]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

The woman is in a mental health facility, so I’d argue that it may actually be life or death. 

Do you seriously believe Rachel's in a mental health facility? 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Chalby

[hoodooznoodooz]

4 hours ago, Jel said:

In the law, we recognize degrees of severity of crime. The consequences for a candy bar theft are less than the consequences of stealing someone’s life savings. They are both stealing, so both are criminal and immoral, but one situation is clearly worse. To frame it another way: I have never heard someone make the argument that what Bernie madoff did to his victims is the same as having someone steal your lunch from the office fridge. Why not? It’s all stealing, right? Yes, it is, but one case is bad and the other is much worse. You don’t say to the Madoff victim, “Yes it’s bad that you lost your life savings, but you did steal Bernie’s lunch from the staff room fridge nine years ago, so it’s hypocritical of you to complain about this theft. You also stole, and stealing is stealing. And, you should keep your emotions in check, and you don’t really have a right to feel devastated by this because you stole too.”

And I think that we generally understand that when the Madoff victims go off on him, that they are speaking out of extreme hurt and feelings of betrayal? No one changes their opinion of the situation based on words the victims uttered after the fact.

Cheating wise, what Tom and Rachel did was Bernie Madoff level stealing and betrayal. In cheating situations, it doesn’t get much worse than having your life partner cheat with a close friend, especially when you took in, championed and defended that friend. The second part makes it so much worse than cheating with a stranger. 
 

Absolutely. Thank you for posting this.

[Drogo]

5 hours ago, Jel said:

In the law, we recognize degrees of severity of crime. The consequences for a candy bar theft are less than the consequences of stealing someone’s life savings. They are both stealing, so both are criminal and immoral, but one situation is clearly worse. To frame it another way: I have never heard someone make the argument that what Bernie madoff did to his victims is the same as having someone steal your lunch from the office fridge. Why not? It’s all stealing, right? Yes, it is, but one case is bad and the other is much worse. You don’t say to the Madoff victim, “Yes it’s bad that you lost your life savings, but you did steal Bernie’s lunch from the staff room fridge nine years ago, so it’s hypocritical of you to complain about this theft. You also stole, and stealing is stealing. And, you should keep your emotions in check, and you don’t really have a right to feel devastated by this because you stole too.”

In this example, no one’s stacking the Madoff jury with 12 known thieves either.

As far as “stealing a candy bar vs stealing life savings” that seems like an oversimplification. I find it hard to differentiate one infidelity from another like this or quantify heartbreak/betrayal; of all the people I know who have been cheated on, I’d be hard pressed to find one who would say “Mine wasn’t so bad”/“At least it was a guy I didn’t know”/etc.  Getting your heart broken is getting your heart broken. Being together for eight years doesn’t mean one couple loves each other more than a couple together for one year. 

I think the former Mrs. Rand and their children might argue that Lala’s offenses were more egregious even though they weren’t “best friends” (a term that gets thrown around a lot on this show when they really mean “the cast members I dislike the least.)

None of it changes that what T&R did or makes it better, but a lot of people are going to think fellow cheaters James Lala Jax Kristen etc are hypocrites and should tone it down.  And some will also remember that Ariana knowingly hooked up with a guy who was in a five year live-in relationship with Kristen. Everyone makes mistakes. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Drogo

[albarino]

All of this is a lot to think about.  I'm going to check myself into my local mental health facility, also known as the Garden of the Gods Resort, to swim.  I might be there for a couple of months.

[RealHousewife]

7 hours ago, ZettaK said:

A high percentage of people cheat in relationships and marriage. What happened to Ariana is not beyond. And people always find they were cheated on in sickening ways. It's never "pretty". It's from caught in the act, from phone messages, photos, videos, the cheater telling them, others telling them, etc. Affairs are normally long term, as well. 

 

6 hours ago, Jel said:

In the law, we recognize degrees of severity of crime. The consequences for a candy bar theft are less than the consequences of stealing someone’s life savings. They are both stealing, so both are criminal and immoral, but one situation is clearly worse. To frame it another way: I have never heard someone make the argument that what Bernie madoff did to his victims is the same as having someone steal your lunch from the office fridge. Why not? It’s all stealing, right? Yes, it is, but one case is bad and the other is much worse. You don’t say to the Madoff victim, “Yes it’s bad that you lost your life savings, but you did steal Bernie’s lunch from the staff room fridge nine years ago, so it’s hypocritical of you to complain about this theft. You also stole, and stealing is stealing. And, you should keep your emotions in check, and you don’t really have a right to feel devastated by this because you stole too.”

And I think that we generally understand that when the Madoff victims go off on him, that they are speaking out of extreme hurt and feelings of betrayal? No one changes their opinion of the situation based on words the victims uttered after the fact.

Cheating wise, what Tom and Rachel did was Bernie Madoff level stealing and betrayal. In cheating situations, it doesn’t get much worse than having your life partner cheat with a close friend, especially when you took in, championed and defended that friend. The second part makes it so much worse than cheating with a stranger. 
 

Thanks Jel! You explained it perfectly for me. :) Fire post.

 

[Polliwollidoodle]

17 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Next season on Vanderpump Rules

Schwartz puts in 80 hour weeks at Schwartz and Sandy’s in efforts to save the business. His partner, Tom is off somewhere braying like a farm animal in heat on a stage. Every night, as he leaves work, he does the only thing he knows how to do to relieve stress.

 

Tom tells Raquel he’s met the most beautiful, sexy woman he’s ever laid his eyes on, and he’s in love. Tom asks Raquel if he can bring her home for a threesome.

 

Raquel agrees. Behind the bland pageant stare, Raquel finesses her plans to go Total Scorched Earth on Tom’s ass. Off screen, Oda Mae Brown whispers “Booooy, you in danger!”

 

It will be an incredible year for DJ Muppet Baby as he has landed regular gigs at a casino in Downtown Vegas.  He is fine tuning his techno remixes. He spends endless hours practicing hitting the PLAY button on his complicated stereo equipment. Wicky.. wicky.. wicky

 

you win the prize for this post- in my accurate judgement.

thank you

[RoseAllDay]

4 hours ago, Chalby said:

Do you seriously believe Rachel's in a mental health facility? 

Wasn’t this rumored a few months back and it turned out she was at some kind of retreat/spa?

[lili45]

9 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Both she and Sandoval were despicable in their actions. 

Exactly yes

Edited June 12, 2023 by lili45

[KungFuBunny]

11 hours ago, Drogo said:

Ehh.  If a bunch of cheaters are ready to villainize two people for cheating because their time already came and went with no real repercussions, that’s hypocritical.  Even if there were repercussions.  If Jodi Arias wants to weigh in on the Idaho murder trial, nobody’s going to want to hear her mouth- because she’s a murderer.

There was a lot of height and might on that stage considering they’re all walking Petri dishes. 

Hypocrites: they don’t practice what they preach.  

villainize: to make someone a villain

villain: a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot.

Incorrect usage of the word as there is no need to villainize Tom and Raquel. They are already villains.

Again, using the word in a sentence is not it’s definition.

If I go by your logic of cheaters are cheaters and all cheating is the same, then Raquel and Tom who are cheaters themselves should not have brought up anyone else’s cheating. They should not have brought up James and Lala. In actuality, Tom and Raquel were trying to villainize Lala and James. This season – the evil actions that were most important to the plot of VPR was “Scandoval” not Lala/Rand not Lala/James. If we talk about the level of cheating, Tom would take the Jodi Arias title as he cheated on Kristen with multiple women in his 6 year relationship with Kristen, he cheated on Ariana with Miami Girl, some other women who he wouldn’t name to Scheana, and Raquel.

OMG, I’ve fallen down the Raquel/Rachel rabbit hole again.

Hugs Drogo

 

1 hour ago, albarino said:

All of this is a lot to think about.  I'm going to check myself into my local mental health facility, also known as the Garden of the Gods Resort, to swim.  I might be there for a couple of months.

Happy swimming albarino

[bosawks]

Of the countless reasons I should fault Sandoval way more than Raquel I fear for my soul that the number one reason for me is that at least she isn’t trying to “sing”.

[Drogo]

14 minutes ago, bosawks said:

Of the countless reasons I should fault Sandoval way more than Raquel I fear for my soul that the number one reason for me is that at least she isn’t trying to “sing”.

Take him onnnnnnnnn.

 

[Jel]

43 minutes ago, bosawks said:

Of the countless reasons I should fault Sandoval way more than Raquel I fear for my soul that the number one reason for me is that at least she isn’t trying to “sing”.

I fear there may be a tambourine or a triangle in her future. 

[RoseAllDay]

2 hours ago, albarino said:

All of this is a lot to think about.  I'm going to check myself into my local mental health facility, also known as the Garden of the Gods Resort, to swim.  I might be there for a couple of months.

I’ll join you. First round’s on me. But will we have access to the private pool?

[ivygirl]

33 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Take him onnnnnnnnn.

 

He'll be gooooooooonnnnnneeeee (off our TV screens)

In a day or twoooooooooooooo

[KungFuBunny]

The Canyon Club came up a few times during the reunion – by Tom and Raquel on 2 separate occasions. They have the same narrative of painting James as an out of control drunk that was being abusive to Ally and his actions got him thrown out of the Club. Raquel even brings it up during the season sitting at SUR – we all see the flashback on the reunion. This shared narrative by Tom and Raquel leads me to believe that they’ve been hooking up then and this occurred months before The Abbey incident.

I’m posting a video. Start at the 23 minute mark. The blond talking is Jamie Lynne, she is good friends with Scheana and was one of her bridesmaids. Raquel asked Jamie to sign a release form stating Jamie took a video which she didn’t. The brunette is Lex Tilly. She is one of the VPR adjacent friends – closest to Scheana but also friends to Ariana and Katie. She has an instagram account and has many followers. She was at the Canyon Club sitting across from Raquel. Raquel also approached Lex to lie about James.

I believe Raquel on VPR is a persona – naive, little girl lost, vulnerable, gullible, victim. I believe when Raquel drinks a little too much – the persona goes to the wayside, she loses control of keeping the mask in place. This is the real Raquel – a real nasty piece of work.

 

[KungFuBunny]

49 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Take him onnnnnnnnn.

 

I can't hit the play button. Not even "just one time"

[Drogo]

53 minutes ago, RoseAllDay said:

First round’s on me. But will we have access to the private pool?

Probably, just please don't bring Kristina Kelly and her fucking lip balms.   

[Jel]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

In this example, no one’s stacking the Madoff jury with 12 known thieves either.

As far as “stealing a candy bar vs stealing life savings” that seems like an oversimplification. I find it hard to differentiate one infidelity from another like this or quantify heartbreak/betrayal; of all the people I know who have been cheated on, I’d be hard pressed to find one who would say “Mine wasn’t so bad”/“At least it was a guy I didn’t know”/etc.  Getting your heart broken is getting your heart broken. Being together for eight years doesn’t mean one couple loves each other more than a couple together for one year. 

I think the former Mrs. Rand and their children might argue that Lala’s offenses were more egregious even though they weren’t “best friends” (a term that gets thrown around a lot on this show when they really mean “the cast members I dislike the least.)

None of it changes that what T&R did or makes it better, but a lot of people are going to think fellow cheaters James Lala Jax Kristen etc are hypocrites and should tone it down.  And some will also remember that Ariana knowingly hooked up with a guy who was in a five year live-in relationship with Kristen. Everyone makes mistakes. 

Without going on and on about this, I’ll just say that in the rando cheating scenario, you’re betrayed and hurt by a partner. In the friend scenario, you’re betrayed by your partner and your friend. In the words of the great Nigel Tuffnel, “Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it?. Two betrayals for the price of one. It goes to eleven!

[KungFuBunny]

1 minute ago, Jel said:

Without going on and on about this, I’ll just say that in the rando cheating scenario, you’re betrayed and hurt by a partner. In the friend scenario, you’re betrayed by your partner and your friend. In the words of the great Nigel Tuffnel, “Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it?. Two betrayals for the price of one. It goes to eleven!

OMG, are we adding complicated math now??

Just kidding - trying to lighten up the room

[Chatty Cake]

13 hours ago, Drogo said:

Ehh.  If a bunch of cheaters are ready to villainize two people for cheating because their time already came and went with no real repercussions, that’s hypocritical.  Even if there were repercussions.  If Jodi Arias wants to weigh in on the Idaho murder trial, nobody’s going to want to hear her mouth- because she’s a murderer.

There was a lot of height and might on that stage considering they’re all walking Petri dishes. 

Hypocrites: they don’t practice what they preach.  

Agree! 
Lalas opinion on cheaters should never mean shit to anyone. She’s a cheap looking side piece of trash her damn self. James is a mental case immature asshole. I don’t think Katie cared about the affair, she just was mad that Schwartz filmed that make out scene with Raquel.

Schwartz actually handled it best. Pretending to be upset but not going off. 

[Drogo]

If Katie isn't mad about something or at someone for eleven minutes, she dies. 

[Gharlane]

2 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

Wasn’t this rumored a few months back and it turned out she was at some kind of retreat/spa?

Yes, and Sandoval just happened to take a sabbatical nearby.

It's possible there's a second time and she actually went to one. I'm confused about that.

[Drogo]

Best friends forever! 

Casual reminder: They're all shit.  

Edited June 12, 2023 by Drogo

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, RoseAllDay said:

I’ll join you. First round’s on me. But will we have access to the private pool?

in Scheana's Aflac Duck voice, if your name is Katie you do not have access to this pool. This pool is reserved for the people at my wedding. You go over to the other side of the resort.