S02.E21: Whodunnit

[tennisgurl]

I feel like I need to let out a classic Higgentoot "GASP!" for that plot twist! I'm glad that Alberta's sister didn't kill her, but Hetty's son being the one who did it, and Hetty knowing about it all this time, is pretty bad too. This was a great episode, probably one of my favorites in what has been a great season, I am so glad that they solved this mystery without dragging it for too long like lesser shows would. I loved seeing all of the ghosts that were around in the 20s at the party watching everything going on and that they all got to contribute to solving the crime, even Nigel and the Cholera Ghosts. I can totally get why Alberta is so upset, and its understandable that this wasn't wrapped up by the end of the episode, but I get why Hetty had such a hard time telling the truth. She was so ashamed about what her son did that she didn't want to say it right away, then so much time passed that it felt even worse to tell the truth, she should have told Alberta but I can see how this happened. 

13 hours ago, phalange said:

I like this storyline with the three of them, because they're the three most recently dead, so the technology isn't completely crazy to them, but they don't have the awareness of internet scams.

As they say, they know enough to be dangerous! That was a great B Plot, I guess this does make sense, they are technically old people! 

Jay was just so excited about his murder board and getting that perfect yarn, what a great guy he is. Even though he cant actually see or talk to the ghosts, he is always so down to help out and participate in their hijinks as much as he can. I'm sure that everyone who watched Trail and Error was chanting "murder board! murder board!" right along with me. 

"You just drank a drink you found not knowing what was in it?"

"And you walked around an open field wearing a metal helmet in a thunderstorm Thor, we all got here somehow!"

[iMonrey]

Once again I'm impressed with casting continuity. That was the same actor playing Thomas as in the previous flashback in "The Family Business." Such a small role, I wouldn't really have known the difference.

I'm with Alberta on this. I'd be furious to learn Hetty knew all along who killed her and didn't tell her. And it's kind of different from Isaac and Nigel because those two only saw each other once a year or so. (Which is why Nigel's presence at the party didn't really make much sense.) Interesting callback, in the pilot Hetty insisted Alberta died of a heart attack. Now her insistence carries more significance.

The whole thing with the Nigerian Prince really had me cracking up. Honestly sometimes the ghosts are like children. And yeah Jay really needs to change his password for his bank account.

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I was wondering why Stephanie did not recoil from the stench of teenage cholera ghost the way everyone did from the cholera ghosts in this episode.  Inconsistent.

I'm not sure whether they were recoiling from stench or just from the repulsive visage of them. We haven't really established whether ghosts can smell like anything. But the cholera ghosts are pretty awful to look at, they all have sores on their faces. (Except Ralph.)

Weird we got no reaction from Sass about Sam seeing Shiki again.

[basil]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We haven't really established whether ghosts can smell like anything.

Well, we know that Isaac can, but maybe it is only limited to his "power".

[Snow Apple]

I agree with everyone that while it's awful Hetty didn't tell Alberta the truth for over 100 years, it's because she was ashamed and it's harder to confess the more time passes (I think we've all been there).

I doubt she would have ever confessed if they just accepted that Alberta was murdered by Al Capone (even Alberta was excited she was done in by a famous person). But Hetty couldn't live (well, afterlife) with herself if Alberta thought her sister killed her.

[PaulE]

14 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Yeah, I guess what I was trying to say was, set them up with something that wasn’t connected with any of their monetary stuff. Which would probably involve charging their existing passwords. 

And to be fair, good on Sam for setting up alerts!

Sam and Jay could also subscribe to a password protector that generates strong passwords and auto-populates them on login pages so they would't actually have to type them in.  The ghosts couldn't get around that.  And I guess they could also use tablets and phones, which have fingerprint and face I.D. options that don't require entering your password.  But I'd hope the ghosts have learned their lesson and could be trusted not to do that again.

[PaulE]

1 hour ago, Snow Apple said:

It's interesting how time goes so fast. Hetty was wearing a formal dress with bustle that cover from neck to toe when she passed but in the short time that her son became an adult, the fashion is flapper dresses and zoot suits which must seem scandalous to her.

Very true.  I think Hetty's dress style is from the 1870s and 1880s, and even a mere ten years later, during the 1890s, the bustle and flounces would have gone (though not the corsets, unfortunately).  Women for the first time were wearing skirts and blouses, not only dresses, and with fewer petticoats so that they were able to move more freely even though the skirts were still long.  There are lots of photos from that decade showing women riding bikes, playing tennis, etc., and some of the fashions were less self-consciously "girly"--some of the blouses had celluloid collars like men's shirts and even decorative cravats based on men's, and some of the styles of the dresses and blouses were inspired by military uniforms. (the Metropolitan Museum in New York had an exhibit on that some years ago and it really was fascinating to see the early gender-blending in women's fashions).  I think women were starting to be taken more seriously, though it was just a start.  Even those changes must have startled Hetty, so, yeah, the 20s fashions probably gave her quite a jolt at first.

[possibilities]

We know the ghosts can smell things because they are always talking about smelling food and how much they enjoy doing that.

[basil]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

We know the ghosts can smell things because they are always talking about smelling food and how much they enjoy doing that.

I think the question that iMonrey posited was whether ghosts can emit a smell from themselves. We know that Isaac can when someone walks through him, but seemingly otherwise he has no odor.

[possibilities]

I think we've had them mention the way Thor smells, though? I can't remember what episode it was. Maybe I'm confused. 

[appositival]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

And why was Al Capone even there? 

Because you can never have too many red herrings (ask Thor).

 

Why didn't Jay have a list of all the people at the party who knew Alberta and who had names starting with 'T'? (or at least it wasn't shown)

Although, I guess I would have used a fake initial if I was murdering someone.

[Neptune]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think we've had them mention the way Thor smells, though? I can't remember what episode it was. Maybe I'm confused. 

Alberta’s Fan

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, shura said:

 Including things completely out of left field like Al Capone being in love with Alberta and wanting to kill himself, or Hetty’s son’s ending relationship with Alberta’s manager who was not gay.

I agree the Al Capone thing was out of left field, but why do you say Alberta's manager was not gay? He could have been bi, but I don't think we were told or shown anything that indicated he was straight or that his relationship with Hetty's son was not sincere. He could have wanted to stay with Alberta for the protection that relationship gave him, or because of his career, for instance. Especially in those days, lots of people lived their lives on the downlow, and had beards for protection. Moreover, in an interracial relationship at that time, there would be even more obstacles.

Isaac was in the closet, married to a woman, but he was always gay, as well.

Also, I think it was not that Hetty's son ended the relationship with Alberta's manager. He wanted Alberta's manager to break up with Alberta, and the manager refused. So the son killed Alberta, in hopes that the manager would then agree to be with him alone, is what I thought the story was.

[basil]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Also, I think it was not that Hetty's son ended the relationship with Alberta's manager. He wanted Alberta's manager to break up with Alberta, and the manager refused. So the son killed Alberta, in hopes that the manager would then agree to be with him alone, is what I thought the story was.

All of this was asked and answered on page one of this thread, possibilities - and Earl wasn't Alberta's manager, he was her bootlegger boyfriend.

eta: When Alberta started to get amorous with Earl, he said it would have to wait, that he had business to take care of. The next time we see Earl, he is arguing with Hetty's son Thomas, presumably about the letter Thomas sent talking about getting rid of "you-know-who". The letter was likely the reason for the break-up. How did Jay and Sam get that letter, anyway?

eta 2: I think Sam should still suggest that Al Capone did it.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good story? What does she have to lose?

Edited May 5, 2023 by basil

[Neptune]

https://www.tvinsider.com/1091761/ghosts-season-2-episode-21-alberta-murder-mystery-solved-hetty-son/

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, basil said:

.I don't understand Alberta's outrage. She's incredibly capricious. She goes from being distressed and unbelieving at the idea that her sister Teresa might have killed her, to being thrilled that Capone did it - then deeply depressed and resigned when she believed her sister had murdered her after all. Then incredibly angry at Hetty for telling the truth - all in the space of, what - ten minutes?

 I'd have been more relieved at the revelation that my beloved sister hadn't done me in than that it was a long time in coming. Alberta just looks petty being so upset by this. She wants to be mad at someone, let it be Earl, who cheated on her and knew his boyfriend was plotting to kill her. 

There was a great interview with Danielle on the TV Insider site in which she goes into a little more explanation of all the reasons why this reveal would upset her:

https://www.tvinsider.com/1091761/ghosts-season-2-episode-21-alberta-murder-mystery-solved-hetty-son/

ETA: @Neptune and I were of similar minds here, it seems :D!

I think a lot of her anger towards Hetty is due to the fact that for decades now, Hetty's had this information on hand, and yet anytime the topic of Alberta's death came up, Hetty just kept telling her, "No, you're wrong about how you died" over and over again. Even if Alberta may understand why Hetty kept the secret for so long, there's keeping a secret, and then there's insisting that she's wrong about how she really died when Hetty knows full well she's not wrong. Keep the secret, she's got her reasons, okay, fine, but don't try and make your friend doubt her understanding of how things really are. I can absolutely see that being the real sore spot here for Alberta, the thing that bothers her most about Hetty's behavior. 

4 hours ago, PaulE said:

It also got me to thinking that Nigel could be the one to convince Alberta to forgive Hetty, since he had to do that himself with Isaac, and knows what it’s like to feel betrayed by someone you care about.  Doing that might also help him reconcile with Hetty (assuming their feud is still going on).

Ohhhhhh, I like that idea :). That'd be great. 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I feel like I need to let out a classic Higgentoot "GASP!" for that plot twist!.

On that note, Nigel being so pleased to elicit a classic Isaac gasp was super adorable :D. I also loved Isaac's reaction to learning about Thomas - he's all like, "Okay, so I know we've got this murder investigation going and all, but can we take a moment to appreciate that I was right?" :p. 

The running debate over whether a big hat was conspicuous or inconspicuous was great, too. 

It was also fun to see him helping Alberta here because of their recent thing of playing detective in regards to Crash's head. Pony and Bangs on the case once more :D!

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And it's kind of different from Isaac and Nigel because those two only saw each other once a year or so. (Which is why Nigel's presence at the party didn't really make much sense.) 

Maybe this was one of those instances where he and the other British ghosts had come to have one of their usual tiffs with the Americans over the property again :p? And thus, as a result, Nigel just happened to wind up being there on a particularly notable night? 

That was another thing I liked about seeing where all the older ghosts were at that party - so many interesting little side stories one could explore about what they were up to or planning to do that night, what stuff they observed outside of everything with Alberta's death. 

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Weird we got no reaction from Sass about Sam seeing Shiki again.

Yeah, would've been nice to see Sam mention her to Sasappis. It was nice to see her again - they really went all out in making sure all the notable side characters were here alongside the main ones, I like that. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Annber03

[basil]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

There was a great interview with Danielle on the TV Insider site in which she goes into a little more explanation of all the reasons why this reveal would upset her:

Thanks for that, but this is clearly going to be a YMMV situation. From Danielle, in the interview you linked:

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" If a friend had lied to me just even about the smallest thing and then I found that not only was a family member of theirs involved, their lie is quite literally the reason why I died early… "

That doesn't make sense. Hetty is in no way responsible for Alberta's death.
 

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

yet anytime the topic of Alberta's death came up, Hetty just kept telling her, "No, you're wrong about how you died" over and over again.

Did Hetty literally tell Alberta she was "wrong" "over and over again"? I'll have to rewatch. I can only think of once or twice, and I don't remember her ever using the word "wrong".

To be fair, I don't much care for the character of Alberta. She's self-absorbed and shallow. I do think her anger at Hetty is misplaced.

[BellaBabe2022]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

Don't really see how speculating about Lizzie Borden or other old crimes is dangerous, but OK.

 

Some of the most popular ones are not speculating about old crimes, they are speculating about things that are currently happening, and putting people's lives at risk. Law enforcement agencies have asked them to stop doing this, and at least one podcaster is facing legal action because of what was said on her show.

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, basil said:

The letter was likely the reason for the break-up. How did Jay and Sam get that letter, anyway?

I think it was the episode with the wine tasting and all the college kids were partying in the vault? Alberta told them there was booze in the wall and they found the letter in the wall too.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Snow Apple

[basil]

18 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I think it was the episode with the wine tasting and all the college kids were partying in the vault? Alberta told them there was booze in the wall and they found the letter in the wall too.

That sounds familiar, thanks. How did they know it had anything to do with Alberta? Was it addressed to Earl? Alberta was only referred to as "you-know-who".

Edited May 6, 2023 by basil

[eel21788]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

As for the Trevor/Flower/Pete plot, oh, my god, Sam's right, they really are idiots :p. I would've thought Pete, at least, might be a little bit more wary after the whole situation with that fake email about Little Pete a few episodes back, but I can also see him getting totally sucked in by Trevor and Flower's enthusiasm. I liked the references to their time periods, with the mention of Morley Safer and whatnot, and the ending, with them seeing that ad...fantastic XD. 

Both Trevor and Pete both should have known it was a scam. The whole Nigerian Prince rip off stuff existed through the mail in the 1980s.

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't know how Sam would prove to her listeners that ANY of the suspects actually did it. She's relied entirely on the testimony of ghosts, so anything she says will be total speculation as far as her listeners are concerned. 

She could say she found some written evidence in the house, but it had somehow been destroyed. She hasn't been above doing this in the past.

A piece of paper that was nearly 100 years old would have been badly deteriorated and fragile. It would have been plausible that it had fallen apart when she handled it, had accidentally been destroyed in an unfortunate kitchen accident, or it had been misplaced.

[iMonrey]

Oddly, it never occurred to me that Alberta was wearing a wig! (The actress, sure, but not the character.) I was really surprised when they showed her putting it on.

Loved Thomas saying "1929 is going to be the best year ever!"

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But I'd hope the ghosts have learned their lesson and could be trusted not to do that again.

They haven't though! They're about to sign Jay and Sam up for a reverse mortgage!

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I think Hetty's dress style is from the 1870s and 1880s, and even a mere ten years later, during the 1890s, the bustle and flounces would have gone (though not the corsets, unfortunately).

Hetty died around 1890, she has repeatedly stated she died 130 years ago. Hard to believe she would have been wearing an out of style dress when she died. There's still a lot we don't know about her though, including how she died.

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I think we've had them mention the way Thor smells, though? I can't remember what episode it was. Maybe I'm confused. 

Oh you're right - he smells like animal urine. Can't remember what kind of animal. Apparently he did that to ward off bears.

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Both Trevor and Pete both should have known it was a scam. The whole Nigerian Prince rip off stuff existed through the mail in the 1980s.

Hmm. I never heard of it until the internet age. And I'm much older than either Trevor or Pete.

[Skooma]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:35 AM, Katy M said:

It flew off his head the moment before he died, so he wasn't wearing it at point of death.

And why was Al Capone even there? 

Well we were told in several past episodes over the last 2 years that he had a thing for Alberta according to Alberta.  Yes, historically it makes no sense.  Either that he was in NYC lusting after Alberta or secretly crashing the party up the Hudson. 

But who cares.  This isn't an historically accurate documentary on PBS.  This is a sitcom and in the end the writers wrote it this way to get a few extra laughs.  And it worked for me.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Skooma

[iMonrey]

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And why was Al Capone even there? 

They've definitely established Alberta knew him, she's name-checked him more than once. When they first discovered the vault, someone mentioned Al Capone's vault and Alberta said "that man was so clingy."

[eel21788]

30 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

They're about to sign Jay and Sam up for a reverse mortgage!

They are both too young for a reverse mortgage. The ghosts will never get past putting Sam's and Jay's birthdates into the first page of the screening program on the website.

[eel21788]

38 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Hmm. I never heard of it until the internet age. And I'm much older than either Trevor or Pete.

Either you never read your junk mail, or you managed to escape many of the mailing lists I was trapped on.

Apparently, it goes back even further:

https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-first-nigerian-prince-scam/

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

Sass's friend watches people in the bathroom.

they must have really been catching up on stuff because Isaac and Hetty knew who Al Capone was.

I had the same thoughts.

9 hours ago, shura said:

And then we find out that Alberta has been suffering so much from not knowing who murdered her that she absolutely cannot forgive Hetty for not telling her earlier.  While it is in Alberta’s character to react to something this way, I don’t think we have seen any sign that this has been such a burden for her.  She didn’t even know she had been murdered up until a year ago and then she kept waltzing around all excited about it (like when Nancy congratulated her on the Al Capone revelation). 

This, too.

 

[Chit Chat]

Alberta and Hetty have to make up.  I will be very disappointed if there is any long-term angst between our ghosts!

4 hours ago, PaulE said:

Even those changes must have startled Hetty, so, yeah, the 20s fashions probably gave her quite a jolt at first.

She was probably mortified as women's dresses & skirts got shorter and shorter, and skimpier, but maybe over time she came to accept it and realized just how great it must feel to not be weighed down by all of the clothing she has to wear!  FWIW, kudos to the wardrobe department & costume designer for the show.  That's part of the appeal of the show to me.  I never get tired of seeing them in their costumes from yore!

[HurricaneVal]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Hetty died around 1890, she has repeatedly stated she died 130 years ago. Hard to believe she would have been wearing an out of style dress when she died. There's still a lot we don't know about her though, including how she died.

Yeah...Hetty is an interesting person.  How old is she, really?  Rebecca Wisocky is around 50yo, so you assume Hetty is also around that same age.  Or rather, that Hetty died when she was around that same age, fixing her age and appearance as a ghost.  Hetty strikes me as very conservative, even for a very conservative caste in a conservative age.  She appears to be a bit of an ultra-conservative outlier, even among her peers--her enthusiasm for cocaine notwithstanding.  So it would make sense that her manner of dress would harken back to a more straight-laced time.  On the other hand, Hetty strikes me as kind of vain, and I could see that Hetty constantly updating her wardrobe to keep up with the fashion of the times, so then it doesn't make sense that her dress would be so old fashioned at the time of her death. 

Her manner of death is also a mystery.  Cocaine overdose, laudanum overdose, hmm....?  She has no outward evidence of her means of death, so it can't be from a disfiguring accident like Flower or Pete.  Evidently Sass, Thor, and Isaac were elsewhere when she died because it has never come up.  Perhaps she was playing dress-up in her old clothes in a manic, cocaine fueled episode and keeled over from a heart attack?  Maybe that's why she kept insisting Alberta died of a heart attack, it was the first thing that came to mind for her. 

I wonder what it was like for Hetty, to watch her descendants grow up and die in the house, to watch her beloved mansion fall into disrepair?  I know we saw a tiny slice of that in the pilot, when Sam's great-great-aunt died, with the ghosts in attendance, but it is hard to recall that far what Hetty did and said at that moment.  I didn't know how invested I was going to become!

[Artsda]

Thomas being the killer definitely not ever thought, what a twist. Hetty knowing all this time too. 

Omg at the 3 with the email scam. They need to be watched more on laptop. 

Loved Jay with his murder board and going to Target and Michaels for red string. Lol

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Artsda

[PurpleTentacle]

22 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

How are they going to present the solution to Alberta's murder in their final podcast?  The solution sounds like a fantasy, as there's no possible way any of them could know any of this.

Maybe just make up a fake diary found in the walls, in which Thomas confesses. Nobody is going to check.

22 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

1) Jay & Sam need to create a password for logging in to the laptop, and find a way to hide their fingers whenever they log in.

They should invest into a Laptop with a fingerprint reader, so the ghosts can't see them typing passwords and some 2FA for their bank accounts. Is it even possible to do wire transfares with only a password? German banks had mandetory 2FA since online banking has been a thing for that.

12 hours ago, shura said:

Including things completely out of left field like Al Capone being in love with Alberta and wanting to kill himself

Alberta had said multiple times that Al Capone was in love with her and she rejected him. Just not that he was there that night.

12 hours ago, shura said:

or Hetty’s son’s ending relationship with Alberta’s manager who was not gay.

People are bi, shura.

12 hours ago, appositival said:

So why isn't Thor wearing a blasted metal helmet? Sounds like he was wearing one when he was struck by lightning and died.

We saw his death in a previous episode. He was struck by lightning, which made the helmet fall off. I guess he was alive long enough for it to count as not on his head, when he died.

7 hours ago, PaulE said:

Sam and Jay could also subscribe to a password protector that generates strong passwords and auto-populates them on login pages so they would't actually have to type them in. 

There are free open source software solutions out there. Like KeepPassXC. Don't subcribe to commercial solutions unless you want your passwords leaked *cough* Lastpass *cough*.

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think we've had them mention the way Thor smells, though? I can't remember what episode it was. Maybe I'm confused. 

Yes, he smells of wolf urin, since his furs were drenched in it "to ward off bear".

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

7 hours ago, PaulE said:

I think Hetty's dress style is from the 1870s and 1880s, and even a mere ten years later, during the 1890s, the bustle and flounces would have gone (though not the corsets, unfortunately). 

Hetty died around 1890, she has repeatedly stated she died 130 years ago. Hard to believe she would have been wearing an out of style dress when she died. There's still a lot we don't know about her though, including how she died.

I mean as you said, she died around 130 years ago. 1889 would have still been in the the 1880s. Also as a conservative woman she might have held on to the style a bit longer.

Edited May 6, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[shapeshifter]

I can imagine Sam wants (at least subconsciously) to allow the ghosts to be able to be able to take advantage of the wealth of information on the internet and so doesn't just put the laptop in a drawer, but at the same time she knows they'll get up to no good, and so they have a password on it. 
I hope Sam and Jay get some sort of child-protection software installed so the ghosts can experience things like virtually climbing Machu Picchu, or rocking to the oldies, but not empty Sam and Jay's bank accounts or infect the computer with ransomware. 

[possibilities]

I shudder to think how Thor got regular supplies of wolf urine to douse himself in.

I've  never noticed Alberta being shallow or self-absorbed. I actually think that Hetty is that way a lot of the time. I hope the two make up, though. I respect Alberta being very upset. I would also be upset. I really don't like being lied to, and this was a major lie and it went on for a very long time. That said, I also hope she will eventually forgive her. These ghosts need to learn how to have the tough conversations. They have plenty of time to do it. It took Isaac and Nigel a very long time to get real with each other. It's actually a problem I have with the show that they've been together for so long and still haven't talked about a lot of the big topics you'd think would be most on all of their minds.

I would like to see more episodes that show past incidents at the mansion, and what each of the ghosts was doing at the time.

 

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Maybe this was one of those instances where he and the other British ghosts had come to have one of their usual tiffs with the Americans over the property again :p? And thus, as a result, Nigel just happened to wind up being there on a particularly notable night? 

Maybe they came to parties at the house to get a break from watching ants...

[Chit Chat]

Was that Michael Boatman as Sam's new editor?  

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

Omg at the 3 with the email scam. They need to be watched more on laptop. 

What I found funny was when Trevor started typing on the laptop, the scene faded out and then back in with the heading of "1 hour later!"  That's dedication!!  FWIW, I don't have that kind of patience.  ;) 

[ams1001]

12 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Was that Michael Boatman as Sam's new editor?  

IMDB says he was, indeed, in this episode.

Edited May 6, 2023 by ams1001

[basil]

18 hours ago, basil said:

18 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I think it was the episode with the wine tasting and all the college kids were partying in the vault? Alberta told them there was booze in the wall and they found the letter in the wall too.

That sounds familiar, thanks. How did they know it had anything to do with Alberta? Was it addressed to Earl? Alberta was only referred to as "you-know-who".

I just watched again. Snow Apple is correct. Jay confirms where the letter was found and says it was addressed to "My dearest Earl".

 

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

I've  never noticed Alberta being shallow or self-absorbed. I actually think that Hetty is that way a lot of the time.

Danielle herself describes Alberta as a "narcissist".

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

I've  never noticed Alberta being shallow or self-absorbed. I actually think that Hetty is that way a lot of the time.

1 hour ago, basil said:

Danielle herself describes Alberta as a "narcissist".

Are any of the ghosts *not* shallow, self-absorbed narcissists?

 

 

[appositival]

55 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Are any of the ghosts *not* shallow, self-absorbed narcissists?

I find Pete to be shallow, self-absorbed, and self-hating. You can see the gloom surrounding his 'peppy' positive demeanor. I suspect Richie Moriarty just has naturally sad eyes.

Alberta is emotional (which can help a singer's interpretation of a song). She reacts abruptly when something upsets her. I think she will calm down, but she and Alberta are both very proud so reconciliation may take a while.

[Chit Chat]

I see Pete as more of a happy-go-lucky, gee whiz kind of guy, and also a doormat.  I can understand him being snarky since he's just recently found out that his wife cheated on him.   He's having to think through his entire marriage and come to terms with what was real and what was a sham.  I think he's trying to keep a positive attitude, but underneath all of that is some sadness.  

[ajsnaves]

17 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Yeah...Hetty is an interesting person.  How old is she, really?  Rebecca Wisocky is around 50yo, so you assume Hetty is also around that same age.  Or rather, that Hetty died when she was around that same age, fixing her age and appearance as a ghost.  Hetty strikes me as very conservative, even for a very conservative caste in a conservative age.  She appears to be a bit of an ultra-conservative outlier, even among her peers--her enthusiasm for cocaine notwithstanding.  So it would make sense that her manner of dress would harken back to a more straight-laced time.  On the other hand, Hetty strikes me as kind of vain, and I could see that Hetty constantly updating her wardrobe to keep up with the fashion of the times, so then it doesn't make sense that her dress would be so old fashioned at the time of her death. 

Her manner of death is also a mystery.  Cocaine overdose, laudanum overdose, hmm....?  She has no outward evidence of her means of death, so it can't be from a disfiguring accident like Flower or Pete.  Evidently Sass, Thor, and Isaac were elsewhere when she died because it has never come up.  Perhaps she was playing dress-up in her old clothes in a manic, cocaine fueled episode and keeled over from a heart attack?  Maybe that's why she kept insisting Alberta died of a heart attack, it was the first thing that came to mind for her. 

I wonder what it was like for Hetty, to watch her descendants grow up and die in the house, to watch her beloved mansion fall into disrepair?  I know we saw a tiny slice of that in the pilot, when Sam's great-great-aunt died, with the ghosts in attendance, but it is hard to recall that far what Hetty did and said at that moment.  I didn't know how invested I was going to become!

 Do we know if Hetty is “Old Money” or “New Money”?  My impression is that “Old Money” is a bit more conservative, and based on her clothes I just assumed that’s where she fit in.  Either way, they are probably about to lose their fortune in the coming year.

This would have been a perfect time to introduce a new ghost who had been sucked off by the present day.  We know they exist, since the other ghosts know about it happening.

[iMonrey]

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Do we know if Hetty is “Old Money” or “New Money”?  My impression is that “Old Money” is a bit more conservative, and based on her clothes I just assumed that’s where she fit in.  Either way, they are probably about to lose their fortune in the coming year.

Well they didn't lose the house. I'm sure they took a bath in the stock market like everyone else but the Woodstones were still wealthy by the time David was an adult in 2000. Hetty said they were heavily into coal, I'm not sure if she meant personally or professionally, but the latter would have been a safe business to keep them afloat.

[enduringforce]

I'm a huge fan of this show, but this episode makes me suspend my disbelief a bit too much. Hetty, who they played as not know what gay was up until the time when Isaac confessed to her, but now we know she knew her son was gay?

Nigel only came to the house once a year as it has been established before, so why is he wandering around at a part? And remember we meet him, his fifer and another regimental officer always accompany him, so where are they at this party?

I liked the side story about the email account Pete had that Trevor created for him, but are they not at all interested that Sam has to solve Alberta's murder when Pete is crushing on her hard? 

I don't know; this episode felt like a filler episode because the main writers were working on the final show of the season. 

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

 Do we know if Hetty is “Old Money” or “New Money”?  My impression is that “Old Money” is a bit more conservative, and based on her clothes I just assumed that’s where she fit in.  Either way, they are probably about to lose their fortune in the coming year.

They often make a  point of how Hetty was married off to Elias because of a land deal, so I feel like that could explain some of her family's money situation to some degree. Maybe marrying Elias helped her family financially in the long run?

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well they didn't lose the house. I'm sure they took a bath in the stock market like everyone else but the Woodstones were still wealthy by the time David was an adult in 2000. Hetty said they were heavily into coal, I'm not sure if she meant personally or professionally, but the latter would have been a safe business to keep them afloat.

On that note, all the talk this episode about how "great" a year 1929 was going to be have me wondering if and how the Woodstone family was impacted by the 1929 stock market crash and the Great Depression. Like you said, they were able to keep the house, but how did Hetty's children fare through all of that? How did Alberta's family members that were still around handle that?

(That's another thing that struck me recently - Pete, Flower, and Trevor weren't born until after the Great Depression ended, and Alberta died before the Great Depression began. And then of course, all the older ghosts were long dead well before that time period ever occurred. So here's a whole historical time period that none of these ghosts were alive for. I find that interesting.)

2 hours ago, enduringforce said:

I'm a huge fan of this show, but this episode makes me suspend my disbelief a bit too much. Hetty, who they played as not know what gay was up until the time when Isaac confessed to her, but now we know she knew her son was gay?

Actually, I think this detail makes her reaction to Isaac confessing to her more understandable - when he tells her he's attracted to Nigel, she says, "I'm slightly embarrassed I didn't see it." If she'd known of her son's sexuality, then I can see her being embarrassed to have missed similarly obvious signs with Isaac as a result - her reaction does tend to read more as "I should've known" instead of being shocked at the idea of someone being gay in and of itself. 

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I liked the side story about the email account Pete had that Trevor created for him, but are they not at all interested that Sam has to solve Alberta's murder when Pete is crushing on her hard? 

Yeah, it would've been nice to see Pete there for Alberta in some form. It makes sense that he, Trevor, and Flower weren't part of the actual investigation itself, of course, since, obviously, they weren't around yet when Alberta died, but yeah, after the mystery was solved and as Alberta was dealing with the fallout of everything, it would've been interesting to see Pete show some support, or try and encourage a reconciliation or something. Maybe he'll do that down the line, depending on how long this fight goes on. 

[chitowngirl]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:02 PM, Chit Chat said:

Was that Michael Boatman as Sam's new editor?  

What I found funny was when Trevor started typing on the laptop, the scene faded out and then back in with the heading of "1 hour later!"  That's dedication!!  FWIW, I don't have that kind of patience.  ;) 

They’ve got nothing but time to kill!

[kathyk24]

I have sympathy for Hetty. Being gay was considered a crime while she was alive so she wouldn't have wanted to admit her son was gay. I don't think there would have been an easy way for her to confess that Thomas killed Alberta. Where was Sass during the party? He wouldn't have missed an opportunity to see pretty girls in short skirts.

[Skooma]

13 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

 Do we know if Hetty is “Old Money” or “New Money”?  My impression is that “Old Money” is a bit more conservative, and based on her clothes I just assumed that’s where she fit in.  Either way, they are probably about to lose their fortune in the coming year.

What we know about Hetty:

We were told Hetty's father was a minor robber baron of the era who bought Woodstone with his wealth.  Hetty grew up there where Thorfinn sang her lullabys about killing Danes but Hetty thought it was some servant that was singing to her when she was a toddler.  The robber baron had no son so Hetty was married off to her least favorite cousin so that the house would remain in the family since how could a mere woman -- there heads are full of vapors don't you know -- be expected to deal with business and landowning.  Hetty was a product of her time hating the Irish and taking her cocaine as proscribe by any well thought-of doctor of the day.

Since Woodstone must have been totally paid for given the robber baron bought it straight out as his riches piled up, they would not have lost it in the 1929 crash.  The money was probably invested in their business more than the stock market too.  They probably came out of 1929 in even better shape than before.

[TVMovieBuff]

This episode I caught how Thor died, and it explains his affinity with electricity. I know how most of them died, but I never caught how Hetty or Sassapis died. Can someone fill me in?

I enjoy the show so much, I don't like to get all riled up with over-analyzing the fine points. It is a very whimsical comedy and I like it light!

[Chit Chat]

31 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I know how most of them died, but I never caught how Hetty or Sassapis died. Can someone fill me in?

I think that the only thing we know about Sassapis' death was that he was on his way to do his first storytelling but didn't make it to his destination.  It's still a mystery.

We're guessing that Hetty had a heart attack and died since she is fully clothed and has no visible wounds.  Maybe she was napping and passed away.  Hopefully they'll cover this in the next season.

[Snow Apple]

12 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Where was Sass during the party? He wouldn't have missed an opportunity to see pretty girls in short skirts.

I thought he was there with Thor? I don't remember because I'm old, although not as old as the ghosts.