Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Sandman87]

I prefer "nugatory". It's a perfectly proper word, but it just sounds like its meaning to me.

To me "nugatory" sounds like something from a candy bar ad.

[Sandman87]

Yesterday a local newscast's headline crawl had an item that read "MAN SHOT IN HAND, CALF IN (local lake)." I have so many questions:

How did the calf get into the lake? How does it relate to the shooting?

Were they using a comma in place of "and" or an ampersand to indicate that the man was shot in both hand and calf? That's a convention which is only acceptable in print newspapers, where headlines need to be compressed in order to save every fraction of an inch. There was ample room on the screen for a "full size" version of the headline.

The lake in question has exactly the same name as a city near it, so which one did they mean?

[legaleagle53]

To me "nugatory" sounds like something from a candy bar ad.

 

And here I thought I was the only one who felt that way!

[Rick Kitchen]

Inside Edition tonight said, "Donald Trump and FOX News are literally at war."  No, they aren't, unless they've fired shots at each other.

[praeceptrix]

Inside Edition tonight said, "Donald Trump and FOX News are literally at war."  No, they aren't, unless they've fired shots at each other.

From your mouth to the ears of a kindly deity!

[shapeshifter]

Inside Edition tonight said, "Donald Trump and FOX News are literally at war."  No, they aren't, unless they've fired shots at each other.

I suppose they could be metaphorical shots, but still, aren't they really "frenemies" using the so-called war to get publicity?

[Shannon L.]

This is about punctuation instead of grammar, but I've been following Berk Breathed and his new Bloom County strips on FB and his last two have been about leaving two spaces after a period.  It's rather amusing  :)

[Sandman87]

From the local news: "I talked with the owner of a fishing shop tonight. After I spoke with him, I was hooked, literally." I hope he remembers to get a tetanus shot.

[shapeshifter]

From the local news: "I talked with the owner of a fishing shop tonight. After I spoke with him, I was hooked, literally."

I wish one of us could have been another newscaster there with a live microphone to say, "Ouch." Edited September 27, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Brattinella]

This is about punctuation instead of grammar, but I've been following Berk Breathed and his new Bloom County strips on FB and his last two have been about leaving two spaces after a period.  It's rather amusing  :)

 

I DO this.  Every time.  Two spaces after a period.  That's how I was taught.

[Moose135]

I DO this.  Every time.  Two spaces after a period.  That's how I was taught.

 

And an Oxford comma!

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I DO this. Every time. Two spaces after a period. That's how I was taught.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/01/space_invaders.html

[Brattinella]

Yeah, that's bullshit.

[shapeshifter]

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/01/space_invaders.html

Yeah, that's bullshit.

Back in the Pleistocene Age, when I was taking typing in high school on a manual type writer, two spaces after a period was the rule.

I just assumed the rule went away because online, HTML changes it to a single space anyway. No?

[Shannon L.]

Back in the Pleistocene Age, when I was taking typing in high school on a manual type writer, two spaces after a period was the rule.

I just assumed the rule went away because online, HTML changes it to a single space anyway. No?

Same here. I don't think I have it in me to not leave two spaces-it just feels wrong.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Shannon L.

[shapeshifter]

Back in the Pleistocene Age, when I was taking typing in high school on a manual type writer, two spaces after a period was the rule.

I just assumed the rule went away because online, HTML changes it to a single space anyway. No?

Same here. I don't think I have it in [m]e to not leave two spaces-it just feels wrong.

Oh, I don't leave two spaces anymore, but then I can answer HTML and CSS code questions on the telephone with my eyes closed when awakened from a deep sleep.

Sorry to bore y'all with my bragging, but now that I'm too old to get hired if I leave my current job, I think I've earned the right to both tell when-I-was-your-age-stories and to boast a bit about my "mad skilz."

Edited October 8, 2015 by shapeshifter

[MyAimIsTrue]

I learned to type on an IBM Selectric typewriter my freshman year of college (1983) as it was a requirement for admission into journalism school.  Two spaces after the period, always.  I can't not do it.

[3pwood]

While reading the previously cited Slate piece about 2 spaces between sentences, I ran into this story about "language bullies".  I disagree with both articles (& the latter includes an extremely bad drawing).

[The Crazed Spruce]

Two spaces after the period was the rule when I was trained as a clerk typist back in the 90's. Don't care what HTML does to the extra space, I still follow that rule.

[shapeshifter]

Two spaces after the period was the rule when I was trained as a clerk typist back in the 90's. Don't care what HTML does to the extra space

It's only an issue if the web content software enters the extra space as a real space. That's a bad software programming choice, and not one that old-school typists should have to worry about.

[ari333]

Nit

The tomato based condiment.... CATS-sup

That is all

[walnutqueen]

Nit

The tomato based condiment.... CATS-sup

That is all

 

I go with the Catchup Advisory Board and Prairie Home Companion mis-spelling.  :-)

[Sandman87]

Local news, local news

Make me laugh when I got the blues

With your infliction on the language

Of redundancies and participle dangleage

 

From a report on the big hurricane that hit Mexico - "A few homes are still a total loss." No word yet on whether or not Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

Regarding a nonprofit organization - "There will be a fundraiser at the site of the future location." Yes, exactly at the position of the point of the place of the whereabouts.

 

BTW - Feel free to add verses to the rhyming stuff above.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Sandman87

[shapeshifter]

Not heard on TV, but shortly after discussing TV:

My own daughter used "and I" when "and me" was correct. Woe is me. She was relating something about her latest boyfriend to her grandmother, who reared me to respect grammar above all else. The use of the subject pronoun when the object form is required is not going to reflect well on the influence of the boyfriend. Grandma does not approve.

Edited October 25, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Kromm]

Here's one that's less about mistakes made ON TV than a consistent mistake people make TALKING about TV.

 

It's the disease known as "recasted".

 

A certain (and to be honest ridiculously large) percentage of people seem to have convinced themselves this is a word.  It's baffling. I see it tweeted, commented (in comments I mean), even in a few real articles, and if I'm being brutally honest, probably every few days HERE on this board.

[Haleth]

Apparently my favorite football team "literally shot themselves in the foot."  No wonder they keep losing.

[jnymph]

The word "sure" is ONE SYLLABLE people !!!    

 

I'm so tired of hearing Floridians (including local newscasters) pronounce it with 2, as in "Shoe-er."      Is this common?  I never heard it pronounced this way until I moved away from Michigan 5 years ago.

 

Also, to say the following is incorrect: "I am born and raised in Florida."   NO ! You're not currently being born and raised !  The proper sentence would be, "I WAS born and raised in Florida." 

 

Make my skin crawl. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by jnymph

[legaleagle53]

The word "sure" is ONE SYLLABLE people !!!    

 

I'm so tired of hearing Floridians (including local newscasters) pronounce it with 2, as in "Shoe-er."      Is this common?  I never heard it pronounced this way until I moved away from Michigan 5 years ago.

 

Also, to say the following is incorrect: "I am born and raised in Florida."   NO ! You're not currently being born and raised !  The proper sentence would be, "I WAS born and raised in Florida." 

 

Make my skin crawl. 

 

Unless you're thinking in French (in which "I AM born" is the correct expression) and translating what you're thinking word-for-word (literally, even!) into English.

[yourpointis]

Listening to Stephen A Smith pronounce two-syllable words usually has me grinding my teeth. He always puts emphasis on the first syllable even if the word or name calls for the emphasis to be placed on the second syllable. Most people pronounce Peyton Manning's first name as pey-tuhn, but SAS pronounces it peyt-un. There are other examples, but nothing is currently coming to mind.

[jnymph]

Listening to Stephen A Smith pronounce two-syllable words usually has me grinding my teeth. He always puts emphasis on the first syllable even if the word or name calls for the emphasis to be placed on the second syllable. Most people pronounce Peyton Manning's first name as pey-tuhn, but SAS pronounces it peyt-un. There are other examples, but nothing is currently coming to mind.

Makes me think of Troy Aikman pronouncing Green Bay with the emphasis on the first syllable.  "GREEN-bay".    Asshole.

[shapeshifter]

Also, to say the following is incorrect: "I am born and raised in Florida."   NO ! You're not currently being born and raised !  The proper sentence would be, "I WAS born and raised in Florida." 

 

Make my skin crawl.

My boss corrected my use of "raised" as used above with a wry smile and, "Corn is raised; children are reared."

[legaleagle53]

Listening to Stephen A Smith pronounce two-syllable words usually has me grinding my teeth. He always puts emphasis on the first syllable even if the word or name calls for the emphasis to be placed on the second syllable. Most people pronounce Peyton Manning's first name as pey-tuhn, but SAS pronounces it peyt-un. There are other examples, but nothing is currently coming to mind.

 

I've never heard the name pronounced as anything other than PAY-tun.  Are you saying that it should be pay-TON?

Makes me think of Troy Aikman pronouncing Green Bay with the emphasis on the first syllable.  "GREEN-bay".    Asshole.

 

Again, I've only ever heard it pronounced as "GREEN Bay".  "Green BAY" sounds unnatural to my ear because adjectives typically tend to receive emphasis in speech because of their function of distinguishing the nouns they modify.

My boss corrected my use of "raised" as used above with a wry smile and, "Corn is raised; children are reared."

 

That rule has apparently been relaxed somewhat, such that either word is now acceptable regarding humans: http://www.knoxnews.com/opinion/columnists/is-it-reared-or-raised

[3pwood]

My boss corrected my use of "raised" as used above with a wry smile and, "Corn is raised; children are reared."

 

There's a combination Latino/Asian supermarket in my town, which kindly adds English to the signs on the various wares at the butcher counter.  One of those assures us in 3 languages:  "ALL MEAT BORNED AND RAISED IN U.S.A.".

[Quof]

A friend once said to your daughter who did something particularly helpful and polite "You would think you were being raised and not just grown!"

[yourpointis]

I've never heard the name pronounced as anything other than PAY-tun.  Are you saying that it should be pay-TON?

 

 

The (English) pronunciation of ton/tun are the same. What I was referring to (or trying to lol) was the way in which he enunciates two-syllable words. Most two-syllable words have a natural divide, but SAS always appears to against that natural divide. For example, if one were to pronounce thirteen, they split the the two syllables as such thir teen, but he more than likely would make the division thirt een. Since it is a sports talk/debate show, they are always mentioning Peyton Manning's name and it's irritating that he always pronounces the name as Peyt on. That was all I was inferring. 

[Ohwell]

The (English) pronunciation of ton/tun are the same. What I was referring to (or trying to lol) was the way in which he enunciates two-syllable words. Most two-syllable words have a natural divide, but SAS always appears to against that natural divide. For example, if one were to pronounce thirteen, they split the the two syllables as such thir teen, but he more than likely would make the division thirt een. Since it is a sports talk/debate show, they are always mentioning Peyton Manning's name and it's irritating that he always pronounces the name as Peyt on. That was all I was inferring. 

I know what you mean about Stephen A.  He drives me up the wall with his pronunciation of Peyton.  To me it sound like he's saying "PEY-un."  I've heard young people (usually rappers), pronounce certain words that sound like the "t" is omitted, so I wonder if he's trying to be cool (or whatever the young'uns say nowadays for "hip").  

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ohwell

[Shannon L.]

While we're talking about pronunciation, could someone please. for the love of God, teach Ted Cruz how to pronounce Khomeini.

[Brattinella]

nm

I know what you mean about Stephen A.  He drives me up the wall with his pronunciation of Peyton.  To me it sound like he's saying "PEY-un."  I've heard young people (usually rappers), pronounce certain words that sound like the "t" is omitted, so I wonder if he's trying to be cool (or whatever the young'uns say nowadays for "hip").  

 

ARGGHH!!  This is the MOST irritating voice affectation that people (kids mostly) try on.  DON'T DO IT!  It is not cool.  It is not hip.  It makes you look stupid.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Brattinella

[yourpointis]

I know what you mean about Stephen A.  He drives me up the wall with his pronunciation of Peyton.  To me it sound like he's saying "PEY-un."  I've heard young people (usually rappers), pronounce certain words that sound like the "t" is omitted, so I wonder if he's trying to be cool (or whatever the young'uns say nowadays for "hip").  

 

Exactly! Even though he will never let his audience forget he has an education and "paid his dues", he can get street if the occasion calls for it, but IMO he will never be young, cool, or hip lol. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Watching L & O on the WE network earlier, and a promo for some dreadful reality show came on. The host was talking about how he was arranging a party for Ian Ziering, only he kept pronouncing it 'Eye-an.' That can't be right, can it? I always thought it was 'Eee-an." Have I been wrong all these years?

[Quof]

He pronounces it Eye-an.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

He pronounces it Eye-an.

 

Well, that's just pretentious.

[topanga]

That's like "Young Frankenstein:"   'It's not Igor, it's Eye-gor."

 

And I know it's the correct pronunciation of the country's name, but why does it sound so weird when President Obama says "Pok-i-ston" (Pakistan)? Is it because most Americans pronounce it with the flat A sound?

[Quof]

He pronounces it Eye-an.

 

Well, that's just pretentious.

 

I assume his parents determined how his name would be pronounced.

 

Kind of like On-drea Zuckerman.

[Brattinella]

The POCK-IS-STAN thing is very annoying.

[3pwood]

I was told by a person from Israel that the name Ian is pronounced "eye-an" if it belongs to a Jewish man, but "eee-an" if it belongs to a British man.  That is how I've always heard the name being pronounced, to depend on the heritage of the man using it.

[Sandman87]

"It's spelled 'Raymond Luxury-Yacht', but it's pronounced 'Throatwobbler Mangrove.'"

Just to add to the confusion, Ian can also be spelled Iain, as in the author Iain Banks (pronounced Eye-an.)

[Demented Daisy]

Try Eoin Colfer, author of the Artemis Fowl books.  My brain wants to pronounce it "Ee-an", but it's actually "Owen".

 

Irish names are frequently tricky like that.

[Haleth]

'It's not Igor, it's Eye-gor."

 

he kept pronouncing it 'Eye-an.' That can't be right, can it? I always thought it was 'Eee-an."

 

Ee-rock vs Eye-rack?

[Kromm]

While we're talking about pronunciation, could someone please. for the love of God, teach Ted Cruz how to pronounce Khomeini.

Not that I doubt Ted Cruz is an idiot no matter what, but the problem is that Cruz isn't talking about long dead Ruhollah Khomeini. He's talking about the living Ali Khamenei.

 

I don't think you owe a shit like Cruz an apology, mind you, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Kromm